like everyone else in the 2018 draft class has been a big disappointment this year.
Usually players take a big leap from their rookie years into year 2. Not one player has taken that leap. I doubt Barkley has plateaued, but it wouldn’t shock me if Hernandez, Carter, and Hill have.
RE: The point isn't whether one is better than the other Â
it's that the Redskins made a serviceable guard out of him. The Giants never even bothered to try him out there.
I don't know if that is entirely true. I heard rumors that he refused to move to guard as that would negatively affect his value on the open market. But once he was cut a few times, he had no choice.
RE: The point isn't whether one is better than the other Â
it's that the Redskins made a serviceable guard out of him. The Giants never even bothered to try him out there.
That may be the worse part. Although he may have needed an attitude adjustment. Maybe he resisted it because let's face it he was on his rookie contract and looking for a big payday. LT's make more money than Guards. But I do remember a lot of BBI'ers saying the Giants should try him there.
One of the worst draft player evaluations in Giants history. That said I don't think he's better than Hernandez.
I think all their plans went down the drain with all the injuries that happened prior to the start of his rookie season... Once he played as a LT, he got pigeon holed there .. JR didn't bother getting a replacement after first or second season.. rather he just expected that Flowers would improve.. then when asked to move he didn't want to because it would effect his paycheck.. Overall this was a mess at many level and he would never be an effective player with the giants..
Whats worth considering is that Will Hernandez may not be all that people make him out to be.. and he has looked pretty mediocre this year and actually worse than mediocre at times. I don't see a pro-bowl level LG from him..
at this point in his career is immaterial to the Giants.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
at this point in his career is immaterial to the Giants.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
Agreed. I'm also not sure it's fair to judge Hernandez when the entire OL has been poor. Let's see what he's like at this time next year.
you guys expect rookie lineman to be drafted and brought to the NFL to be saviors in their first season
Nelson, who they should have drafted instead of the Hand of God, was an All-Pro last year as a rookie.
With Costanzo and Ryan Kelly already established Colts oline is a favorable place to start your career if you're a offensive guard. Nelson went to the best destination he could ask for, not sure he replicates that in NY
RE: The point isn't whether one is better than the other Â
it's that the Redskins made a serviceable guard out of him. The Giants never even bothered to try him out there.
Be prepared to be ignored. Your point can't be argued against so it will probably just be ignored and left out in the cold. I have argued for trying Flowers at guard here based on his exemplary college highlights of him pulling and simply obliterating defenders who look 100 pounds lighter than him, with a full head of steam, while they had the advantage of moving in free space. He has always looked like an above average guard to my eye. I am not surprised at his success there one bit.
Flowers has always had a definable skillset. He has super quick feet, exemplary short area quickness, and he is good old down country farm strong.... Why our coaches could not coax an average NFL starter out of that is beyond me.
RE: RE: The fact that FLowers is playing decently as a Guard Â
at this point in his career is immaterial to the Giants.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
Agreed. I'm also not sure it's fair to judge Hernandez when the entire OL has been poor. Let's see what he's like at this time next year.
I was Nelson's biggest hype man, had him as the clear #1 player in the draft. But was told by many #2 overall is too high to draft a guard (even if he literally is a Zach Martin clone, which.. good god I dont even have the words)
We would be happy now but.. 80-90% of the fans wouldve botched at the time.
Check that.. there would 1000% still be people saying we didnt get "positional value", no question.
Either way he and Barkley are both great players, I'm not mad to have either.
Man...I hope Hernandez is a just a function of this ineptness Â
at this point in his career is immaterial to the Giants.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
Agreed. I'm also not sure it's fair to judge Hernandez when the entire OL has been poor. Let's see what he's like at this time next year.
I was Nelson's biggest hype man, had him as the clear #1 player in the draft. But was told by many #2 overall is too high to draft a guard (even if he literally is a Zach Martin clone, which.. good god I dont even have the words)
We would be happy now but.. 80-90% of the fans wouldve botched at the time.
Check that.. there would 1000% still be people saying we didnt get "positional value", no question.
Either way he and Barkley are both great players, I'm not mad to have either.
You just joined in the last month. You weren't hyping Nelson here or getting negative Nelson feedback unless you are a dup.
RE: The fact that FLowers is playing decently as a Guard Â
at this point in his career is immaterial to the Giants.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
Very legitimate point. The counter-point might be the Giants are behind in the management of modern sports personalities and a different leadership / player management structure could have been much better for Flowers.
I both completely agree with what you said but also am unwilling to excuse the Giants for their backwards thinking.
Todd was drafted by Dallas as a fullback, his 2nd year in, Coach Landry wanted to convert him to a TE, he refused and got waived
The Giants claimed him, wanted to use him as a TE and he refused, got waived for Dwight Scales ( remember him?)
Finally the Raiders claimed him and wanted to play him as a Tight End.. and he realized this where he needed to be..
He was a all word TE with the Raiders.. I asked him the Giants were DYING for a TE at the time, he was like I thought I knew better.. same thing may be true with Flowers..
RE: RE: RE: The fact that FLowers is playing decently as a Guard Â
at this point in his career is immaterial to the Giants.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
Agreed. I'm also not sure it's fair to judge Hernandez when the entire OL has been poor. Let's see what he's like at this time next year.
I was Nelson's biggest hype man, had him as the clear #1 player in the draft. But was told by many #2 overall is too high to draft a guard (even if he literally is a Zach Martin clone, which.. good god I dont even have the words)
We would be happy now but.. 80-90% of the fans wouldve botched at the time.
Check that.. there would 1000% still be people saying we didnt get "positional value", no question.
Either way he and Barkley are both great players, I'm not mad to have either.
So you are admitting you are dupe. What was your former handle?
but this further proves how bad out coaching is. The fact the Flowers is atleast serviceable is a tough pill to swallow. Even tougher is another player regressing.
I’m starting to believe that all the shit that ex players are talking is more true than untrue.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The fact that FLowers is playing decently as a Guard Â
at this point in his career is immaterial to the Giants.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
Agreed. I'm also not sure it's fair to judge Hernandez when the entire OL has been poor. Let's see what he's like at this time next year.
I was Nelson's biggest hype man, had him as the clear #1 player in the draft. But was told by many #2 overall is too high to draft a guard (even if he literally is a Zach Martin clone, which.. good god I dont even have the words)
We would be happy now but.. 80-90% of the fans wouldve botched at the time.
Check that.. there would 1000% still be people saying we didnt get "positional value", no question.
Either way he and Barkley are both great players, I'm not mad to have either.
You just joined in the last month. You weren't hyping Nelson here or getting negative Nelson feedback unless you are a dup.
It's almost like there's a world or even other forums outside of BBI...
You guys are very strange when it comes to this stuff... also I get we suck and all but why do some people here just seem like they're pissed off 25 hours a day? Do you come here just to argue and vent your frustrations?
and use hindsight to find fault with all picks, but until a coaching staff that can motivate, and teach the players how to play in the NFL, it's a moot point. What if the Giants drafted Quentin Nelson, and then Nick Chubb, or Sony Michel last year, well then we'd probably be talking about their second year struggles as well. It doesn't matter who they bring in here, because the coaching staff sucks.
As for Flowers, he needed to go somewhere, and grow up. I guess switching to G was better than getting a 9 to 5 job. Remember when he was a rookie, and hurt his (knee or ankle) and shoved the trainer away from himself when they were checking him out? Yup, just acting like a pro.
There is a faction on BBI that adheres to certain draft philosophies Â
that do not always fit the situation, such as for a perennial losing team in desperate need for talent everywhere.
These include statements that top 10 picks are not be used on "lesser play-making positions" such as Guard or Middle Linebacker. Or that trading down is unheard of because draft quality trumps draft quantity.
at this point in his career is immaterial to the Giants.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
So a guy on his rookie contract that sucked at LT gets to dictate where he’s going to play? The fact that we never tried him at guard only magnifies the ineptitude of this organization. We still had leverage because he still needed to prove he’s worth a new contract once he hit free agency. And it’s not like we had pro bowlers at guard. Now he’s a more than a serviceable guard and we are still searching for answers across the emtirw line.
at this point in his career is immaterial to the Giants.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
So a guy on his rookie contract that sucked at LT gets to dictate where he’s going to play? The fact that we never tried him at guard only magnifies the ineptitude of this organization. We still had leverage because he still needed to prove he’s worth a new contract once he hit free agency. And it’s not like we had pro bowlers at guard. Now he’s a more than a serviceable guard and we are still searching for answers across the emtirw line.
You completely missed the part where I said the FLowers had checked out mentally and wasn't giving the effort even at RT. He would have given even less at G while he was here. Its only after he left and failed playing T somewhere else that he decided as a last ditch effort to save his career he would give some effort at G.
THe player does decide wether he want to give the effort or not. Not giving it, gets him cut. Somebody else decides to give that player a trye, When a player realizes that he is out of chance, sometimes they try harder.... The Giants have been on the losing side of this problem with some players, and on the winning side with others. Kerry Collins comes to mind a successful reclamation project for the Giants.
that this is a coaching issue? The fact that Flowers left and resurrected his career elsewhere doesnt make that obvious? What do you think would happen if Hernandez left?
that this is a coaching issue? The fact that Flowers left and resurrected his career elsewhere doesnt make that obvious? What do you think would happen if Hernandez left?
Does it? Flowers had Pat Flaherty and Mike Solari as well - are those guys shit coaches too?
Maybe Flowers needed a change of scenery - but it still doesn't explain why they wouldn't try him out at G. He might have flopped, but we'll never know.
RE: RE: You all taking a shit on Hernandez cant see Â
that this is a coaching issue? The fact that Flowers left and resurrected his career elsewhere doesnt make that obvious? What do you think would happen if Hernandez left?
Does it? Flowers had Pat Flaherty and Mike Solari as well - are those guys shit coaches too?
Maybe Flowers needed a change of scenery - but it still doesn't explain why they wouldn't try him out at G. He might have flopped, but we'll never know.
How do you know they didn't want to move him to guard?
Doesn't the player have to accept the change? They can't make him move to guard.
I don't give a shit about Ereck Flowers. He's a quitter and a jerk. Â
Will Hernandez has been awful this season and there's no getting around that (unlike Will, who's very easy to get around). I could understand if he had an issue with movement skills as a big man, but he gets shoved into the backfield too.
OL is a team sport, if you have crap on the left and right its Â
Also, in my opinion, when players are getting worse year to year that is one of my clear signs that the coaching sucks. These are the coaches that need great players everywhere to win, so they never do win. Good coaches are improving their players, lifting the whole boat so to speak. By the way, this is more of an indictment of the position coaches rather than Shurmur. However he hired them, and he should also be close enough to see what is happening and jump in/fire their asses.
The Giants have quite a few veterans that are succeeding elsewhere:
Flowers
Collins
Prince
Kennard
Apple
I'm sure there's more, and of the five listed, 4 are on D. Including three from a secondary that is the worst in the league.
It used to be that the only players that left where toast.
Kennard is the only legitimate name on that list to gripe about. You think we should have signed Landon Collins to an $84 million deal?
Prince and Apple are succeeding? In what way? Apple looks awful in every Saints game I watch and Prince plays on one of the most talented defenses in the league.
The Giants have quite a few veterans that are succeeding elsewhere:
Flowers
Collins
Prince
Kennard
Apple
I'm sure there's more, and of the five listed, 4 are on D. Including three from a secondary that is the worst in the league.
It used to be that the only players that left where toast.
"Succeeding" is a low bar here. Flowers hasn't even been serviceable in Washington despite this PFF crap. Their OL has been bad. Collins hasn't played well. Apple hasn't played well.
If those three players had the same exact performances with the Giants, we'd be ripping them, and be correct in doing so.
RE: What is there to be gained by bashing Prince? Â
You don't become a nine-year starter in the league if you can't play. He's a good NFL player.
Apple sucks.
Exactly. "He plays on a good defense" has to be one of the strangest critiques I've ever heard. Wouldn't he have to be good to start on a loaded defense?
And before injury, Apple was playing pretty well this year.
This and people go by it are just as clueless
then don't click
Usually players take a big leap from their rookie years into year 2. Not one player has taken that leap. I doubt Barkley has plateaued, but it wouldn’t shock me if Hernandez, Carter, and Hill have.
I don't know if that is entirely true. I heard rumors that he refused to move to guard as that would negatively affect his value on the open market. But once he was cut a few times, he had no choice.
That may be the worse part. Although he may have needed an attitude adjustment. Maybe he resisted it because let's face it he was on his rookie contract and looking for a big payday. LT's make more money than Guards. But I do remember a lot of BBI'ers saying the Giants should try him there.
actually, last i saw he was #2 so... yeah
Plus I've heard the center Chase Roullier is an up and coming player.
The 2018 draft class is looking less and less impressive overall.
I think all their plans went down the drain with all the injuries that happened prior to the start of his rookie season... Once he played as a LT, he got pigeon holed there .. JR didn't bother getting a replacement after first or second season.. rather he just expected that Flowers would improve.. then when asked to move he didn't want to because it would effect his paycheck.. Overall this was a mess at many level and he would never be an effective player with the giants..
Whats worth considering is that Will Hernandez may not be all that people make him out to be.. and he has looked pretty mediocre this year and actually worse than mediocre at times. I don't see a pro-bowl level LG from him..
Quote:
Isn't a top 5 QB according to PFF.
actually, last i saw he was #2 so... yeah
https://mobile.twitter.com/pff/status/1195903389579849728
Wasn't recently.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
Oh and Flowers is only 25.
Nelson, who they should have drafted instead of the Hand of God, was an All-Pro last year as a rookie.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
Agreed. I'm also not sure it's fair to judge Hernandez when the entire OL has been poor. Let's see what he's like at this time next year.
Quote:
you guys expect rookie lineman to be drafted and brought to the NFL to be saviors in their first season
Nelson, who they should have drafted instead of the Hand of God, was an All-Pro last year as a rookie.
With Costanzo and Ryan Kelly already established Colts oline is a favorable place to start your career if you're a offensive guard. Nelson went to the best destination he could ask for, not sure he replicates that in NY
Be prepared to be ignored. Your point can't be argued against so it will probably just be ignored and left out in the cold. I have argued for trying Flowers at guard here based on his exemplary college highlights of him pulling and simply obliterating defenders who look 100 pounds lighter than him, with a full head of steam, while they had the advantage of moving in free space. He has always looked like an above average guard to my eye. I am not surprised at his success there one bit.
Flowers has always had a definable skillset. He has super quick feet, exemplary short area quickness, and he is good old down country farm strong.... Why our coaches could not coax an average NFL starter out of that is beyond me.
Quote:
at this point in his career is immaterial to the Giants.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
Agreed. I'm also not sure it's fair to judge Hernandez when the entire OL has been poor. Let's see what he's like at this time next year.
I was Nelson's biggest hype man, had him as the clear #1 player in the draft. But was told by many #2 overall is too high to draft a guard (even if he literally is a Zach Martin clone, which.. good god I dont even have the words)
We would be happy now but.. 80-90% of the fans wouldve botched at the time.
Check that.. there would 1000% still be people saying we didnt get "positional value", no question.
Either way he and Barkley are both great players, I'm not mad to have either.
Quote:
In comment 14700360 .McL. said:
Quote:
at this point in his career is immaterial to the Giants.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
Agreed. I'm also not sure it's fair to judge Hernandez when the entire OL has been poor. Let's see what he's like at this time next year.
I was Nelson's biggest hype man, had him as the clear #1 player in the draft. But was told by many #2 overall is too high to draft a guard (even if he literally is a Zach Martin clone, which.. good god I dont even have the words)
We would be happy now but.. 80-90% of the fans wouldve botched at the time.
Check that.. there would 1000% still be people saying we didnt get "positional value", no question.
Either way he and Barkley are both great players, I'm not mad to have either.
You just joined in the last month. You weren't hyping Nelson here or getting negative Nelson feedback unless you are a dup.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
Very legitimate point. The counter-point might be the Giants are behind in the management of modern sports personalities and a different leadership / player management structure could have been much better for Flowers.
I both completely agree with what you said but also am unwilling to excuse the Giants for their backwards thinking.
The Giants claimed him, wanted to use him as a TE and he refused, got waived for Dwight Scales ( remember him?)
Finally the Raiders claimed him and wanted to play him as a Tight End.. and he realized this where he needed to be..
He was a all word TE with the Raiders.. I asked him the Giants were DYING for a TE at the time, he was like I thought I knew better.. same thing may be true with Flowers..
Quote:
In comment 14700360 .McL. said:
Quote:
at this point in his career is immaterial to the Giants.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
Agreed. I'm also not sure it's fair to judge Hernandez when the entire OL has been poor. Let's see what he's like at this time next year.
I was Nelson's biggest hype man, had him as the clear #1 player in the draft. But was told by many #2 overall is too high to draft a guard (even if he literally is a Zach Martin clone, which.. good god I dont even have the words)
We would be happy now but.. 80-90% of the fans wouldve botched at the time.
Check that.. there would 1000% still be people saying we didnt get "positional value", no question.
Either way he and Barkley are both great players, I'm not mad to have either.
So you are admitting you are dupe. What was your former handle?
I’m starting to believe that all the shit that ex players are talking is more true than untrue.
Quote:
In comment 14700373 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 14700360 .McL. said:
Quote:
at this point in his career is immaterial to the Giants.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
Agreed. I'm also not sure it's fair to judge Hernandez when the entire OL has been poor. Let's see what he's like at this time next year.
I was Nelson's biggest hype man, had him as the clear #1 player in the draft. But was told by many #2 overall is too high to draft a guard (even if he literally is a Zach Martin clone, which.. good god I dont even have the words)
We would be happy now but.. 80-90% of the fans wouldve botched at the time.
Check that.. there would 1000% still be people saying we didnt get "positional value", no question.
Either way he and Barkley are both great players, I'm not mad to have either.
You just joined in the last month. You weren't hyping Nelson here or getting negative Nelson feedback unless you are a dup.
It's almost like there's a world or even other forums outside of BBI...
You guys are very strange when it comes to this stuff... also I get we suck and all but why do some people here just seem like they're pissed off 25 hours a day? Do you come here just to argue and vent your frustrations?
Impossible, you're a.. dupe(?)
Yeah, that.
As for Flowers, he needed to go somewhere, and grow up. I guess switching to G was better than getting a 9 to 5 job. Remember when he was a rookie, and hurt his (knee or ankle) and shoved the trainer away from himself when they were checking him out? Yup, just acting like a pro.
These include statements that top 10 picks are not be used on "lesser play-making positions" such as Guard or Middle Linebacker. Or that trading down is unheard of because draft quality trumps draft quantity.
Let’s face it our recent OL coaches haven’t been the cream of the crop.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
So a guy on his rookie contract that sucked at LT gets to dictate where he’s going to play? The fact that we never tried him at guard only magnifies the ineptitude of this organization. We still had leverage because he still needed to prove he’s worth a new contract once he hit free agency. And it’s not like we had pro bowlers at guard. Now he’s a more than a serviceable guard and we are still searching for answers across the emtirw line.
Quote:
at this point in his career is immaterial to the Giants.
Flowers wasn't accepting of the move from LT to RT, and had mentally checked out from this organization years prior. He would have been even less accepting of a move to G here, and given even less of an effort.
Sometimes a person and an organization need to part ways for the benefit of both.
So a guy on his rookie contract that sucked at LT gets to dictate where he’s going to play? The fact that we never tried him at guard only magnifies the ineptitude of this organization. We still had leverage because he still needed to prove he’s worth a new contract once he hit free agency. And it’s not like we had pro bowlers at guard. Now he’s a more than a serviceable guard and we are still searching for answers across the emtirw line.
You completely missed the part where I said the FLowers had checked out mentally and wasn't giving the effort even at RT. He would have given even less at G while he was here. Its only after he left and failed playing T somewhere else that he decided as a last ditch effort to save his career he would give some effort at G.
THe player does decide wether he want to give the effort or not. Not giving it, gets him cut. Somebody else decides to give that player a trye, When a player realizes that he is out of chance, sometimes they try harder.... The Giants have been on the losing side of this problem with some players, and on the winning side with others. Kerry Collins comes to mind a successful reclamation project for the Giants.
Not sure how he has played all year but he was a monster on Sunday
Does it? Flowers had Pat Flaherty and Mike Solari as well - are those guys shit coaches too?
Maybe Flowers needed a change of scenery - but it still doesn't explain why they wouldn't try him out at G. He might have flopped, but we'll never know.
Quote:
that this is a coaching issue? The fact that Flowers left and resurrected his career elsewhere doesnt make that obvious? What do you think would happen if Hernandez left?
Does it? Flowers had Pat Flaherty and Mike Solari as well - are those guys shit coaches too?
Maybe Flowers needed a change of scenery - but it still doesn't explain why they wouldn't try him out at G. He might have flopped, but we'll never know.
How do you know they didn't want to move him to guard?
Doesn't the player have to accept the change? They can't make him move to guard.
Also, in my opinion, when players are getting worse year to year that is one of my clear signs that the coaching sucks. These are the coaches that need great players everywhere to win, so they never do win. Good coaches are improving their players, lifting the whole boat so to speak. By the way, this is more of an indictment of the position coaches rather than Shurmur. However he hired them, and he should also be close enough to see what is happening and jump in/fire their asses.
Flowers
Collins
Prince
Kennard
Apple
I'm sure there's more, and of the five listed, 4 are on D. Including three from a secondary that is the worst in the league.
It used to be that the only players that left where toast.
How do you know they didn't want to move him to guard?
Doesn't the player have to accept the change? They can't make him move to guard.
Does the player have to accept the change? Can't they just cut him - they ended up doing exactly that with Flowers...
...who then signed with the Flaherty coached Jaguars.
Flowers
Collins
Prince
Kennard
Apple
I'm sure there's more, and of the five listed, 4 are on D. Including three from a secondary that is the worst in the league.
It used to be that the only players that left where toast.
Kennard is the only legitimate name on that list to gripe about. You think we should have signed Landon Collins to an $84 million deal?
Prince and Apple are succeeding? In what way? Apple looks awful in every Saints game I watch and Prince plays on one of the most talented defenses in the league.
Giants fans will do anything to bash the Giants
Apple sucks.
Flowers
Collins
Prince
Kennard
Apple
I'm sure there's more, and of the five listed, 4 are on D. Including three from a secondary that is the worst in the league.
It used to be that the only players that left where toast.
"Succeeding" is a low bar here. Flowers hasn't even been serviceable in Washington despite this PFF crap. Their OL has been bad. Collins hasn't played well. Apple hasn't played well.
If those three players had the same exact performances with the Giants, we'd be ripping them, and be correct in doing so.
Apple sucks.
Exactly. "He plays on a good defense" has to be one of the strangest critiques I've ever heard. Wouldn't he have to be good to start on a loaded defense?
And before injury, Apple was playing pretty well this year.