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Baldy's Breakdowns on our disaster OL- 2 of 1st 3 plays v GB

FranknWeezer : 12/3/2019 11:16 am

(^^^ for you Stern fans)
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This is Gettleman's OL, by the way.  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/3/2019 12:05 pm : link
And people want to keep this old fool?
RE: Halapio has absolutely no resume to suggest he's an NFL player  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/3/2019 12:07 pm : link
In comment 14701108 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
but this brain trust has insisted on giving him a scholarship every year to be mediocre.


I think this may be the most damning indictment of both the GM and HC. BOTH kept waxing on and on about how good Halapio is. WTF?!
Why Use A Tight End to Block.  
NJLCO : 12/3/2019 12:13 pm : link
Last night the Seahawks used another O line guy to block and we use a double tight end and both get their assís handed to them. Look at 82 & 83. The Seahawks show run and say stop us. The week before last Cross and Banks on the post game said this exact same thing. Double up and at least get through the first level. We can even get back to the line of scrimmage



The more I see this stuff and read here on BBI  
SGMen : 12/3/2019 12:14 pm : link
The more I believe that the Mara's will clean house, GM and coaching staff. All of it gone.

I think the Mara's hire a proven NFL head coach and new GM and I think they are all in place within say 15 days of the end of the season. I say this because I don't doubt they are already looking and lining up candidates.

Whoever is hired has a good situation:
-plenty of cap space
-ability to cut veterans who didn't fit and create more space
-QB of the future in Daniel Jones as I think he has the tools
-young core to develop

The NY Giants job would be a great gig for the right staff. I hate "starting over from scratch" but sometimes it is a must.

I'm praying we do get the #1 pick somehow and trade down creating more draft choices and/or players even. There is HOPE.
We have idiots on this site that liked "Pio" too  
Optimus-NY : 12/3/2019 12:15 pm : link
Turrible.
So, add to this the fact that  
GiantsRage2007 : 12/3/2019 12:16 pm : link
Players who played OL for us the last few years are now seemingly doing ok (not great, but serviceable) for other teams and there can be no bigger indictment on our coaching.

This is laughable. I mean seriously VJ 8th grade shit here.
RE: RE: Halapio has absolutely no resume to suggest he's an NFL player  
FranknWeezer : 12/3/2019 12:20 pm : link
In comment 14701128 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14701108 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


but this brain trust has insisted on giving him a scholarship every year to be mediocre.



I think this may be the most damning indictment of both the GM and HC. BOTH kept waxing on and on about how good Halapio is. WTF?!


Smug-ass DG in his January 2018 presser laughing at the media saying, "You're all sleeping on 'Pio. Don't sleep on Pio now. I'm telling you guys." Clown.
RE: The more I see this stuff and read here on BBI  
FranknWeezer : 12/3/2019 12:22 pm : link
In comment 14701136 SGMen said:
Quote:
The more I believe that the Mara's will clean house, GM and coaching staff. All of it gone.

I think the Mara's hire a proven NFL head coach and new GM and I think they are all in place within say 15 days of the end of the season. I say this because I don't doubt they are already looking and lining up candidates.

Whoever is hired has a good situation:
-plenty of cap space
-ability to cut veterans who didn't fit and create more space
-QB of the future in Daniel Jones as I think he has the tools
-young core to develop

The NY Giants job would be a great gig for the right staff. I hate "starting over from scratch" but sometimes it is a must.

I'm praying we do get the #1 pick somehow and trade down creating more draft choices and/or players even. There is HOPE.


If they need to, allow DG to just step aside "for health reasons" if he needs to save face. Whatever. But let's get on with it already.
Re: For you Stern fans  
Optimus-NY : 12/3/2019 12:26 pm : link
...


Funny Baba Booey Songs - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Halapio has absolutely no resume to suggest he's an NFL player  
gidiefor : Mod : 12/3/2019 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14701143 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
In comment 14701128 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 14701108 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


but this brain trust has insisted on giving him a scholarship every year to be mediocre.



I think this may be the most damning indictment of both the GM and HC. BOTH kept waxing on and on about how good Halapio is. WTF?!



Smug-ass DG in his January 2018 presser laughing at the media saying, "You're all sleeping on 'Pio. Don't sleep on Pio now. I'm telling you guys." Clown.


Actually -- this is why Shurmur will get fired and Gettleman won't -- Halapio would be a better player and prove Gettleman was right to keep him if he was getting better coaching

Halapio was doing a reasonable job at the beginning of the season

Sy's comments from the Cowboy game
Quote:
Jon Halapio has been highly-touted by Pat Shurmur, a former center himself, for a couple years now. And besides one pressure from a very unorthodox stunt where DE DeMarcus Lawrence looped all the way to the center of the line, he was dominant. Halapio was clearing inside running lanes by himself and perhaps the most impressive block of the entire game came from him 10+ yards downfield near the sideline on a screen-type pass to Engram. He tossed his man multiple yards into the air, which allowed another few yards of gain. He was the highest-graded NYG lineman.


and then from there he went backwards
I don't remember  
crick n NC : 12/3/2019 12:30 pm : link
Anyone really liking Pio. I remember some fans saying he should be given time to show what kind of a player he is which certainly is reasonable. If anyone was touting Pio on here it was very few
RE: if they dont know what they're doing  
Thankyoueli : 12/3/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14701050 cjac said:
Quote:
20 games into this coaching staffs regime

then its coaching, not talent


It's both.

Some guys you just cant teach or force them to apply what theyve learned.
Shurmer is an offensive guru who  
mikeinbloomfield : 12/3/2019 12:35 pm : link
played center in the NFL. Just throwing that out there.
whoops! not in the NFL. At Michigan State.  
mikeinbloomfield : 12/3/2019 12:36 pm : link
Still.
I'm in the camp that sees regression...  
Dan in the Springs : 12/3/2019 12:40 pm : link
Why is a different question, but to me there is no question that the OL looked more prepared earlier in the season than they do now.

I remember at the beginning of the season being impressed at times with the quality of OL play and feeling like while there was a lot of room to improve, they were no longer a bottom five in the league type of unit.

The errors I'm seeing on the OL now look very similar to the errors seen under every other regime with whatever players here over the years.
Pio seemed to have  
phil in arizona : 12/3/2019 12:43 pm : link
a good run at RG in 2017. Then they moved him to C.

Maybe the right play was to keep him at RG.
Solder, Zeitler and Remmers  
uther99 : 12/3/2019 12:43 pm : link
are all experienced players, I doubt they just "got dumb" all of a sudden. This is basic OL stuff
RE: RE: Halapio has absolutely no resume to suggest he's an NFL player  
widmerseyebrow : 12/3/2019 12:43 pm : link
In comment 14701128 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14701108 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


but this brain trust has insisted on giving him a scholarship every year to be mediocre.



I think this may be the most damning indictment of both the GM and HC. BOTH kept waxing on and on about how good Halapio is. WTF?!


Hey, Shurmur used to play center! Back off!
RE: whoops! not in the NFL. At Michigan State.  
cjac : 12/3/2019 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14701171 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:
Still.


Chris Spielman on at least 2 occasions this season has mentioned what a great center Shurmur was. And its the worst position on the team, that tells you something
RE: RE: RE: RE: Halapio has absolutely no resume to suggest he's an NFL player  
sb from NYT Forum : 12/3/2019 1:00 pm : link
In comment 14701153 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 14701143 FranknWeezer said:


Quote:


In comment 14701128 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 14701108 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


but this brain trust has insisted on giving him a scholarship every year to be mediocre.



I think this may be the most damning indictment of both the GM and HC. BOTH kept waxing on and on about how good Halapio is. WTF?!



Smug-ass DG in his January 2018 presser laughing at the media saying, "You're all sleeping on 'Pio. Don't sleep on Pio now. I'm telling you guys." Clown.



Actually -- this is why Shurmur will get fired and Gettleman won't -- Halapio would be a better player and prove Gettleman was right to keep him if he was getting better coaching

Halapio was doing a reasonable job at the beginning of the season

Sy's comments from the Cowboy game


Quote:


Jon Halapio has been highly-touted by Pat Shurmur, a former center himself, for a couple years now. And besides one pressure from a very unorthodox stunt where DE DeMarcus Lawrence looped all the way to the center of the line, he was dominant. Halapio was clearing inside running lanes by himself and perhaps the most impressive block of the entire game came from him 10+ yards downfield near the sideline on a screen-type pass to Engram. He tossed his man multiple yards into the air, which allowed another few yards of gain. He was the highest-graded NYG lineman.



and then from there he went backwards


He likely looked good because in the first two games Eli called the blocking assignments. After Eli got benched Halapio had to do it. Identifying the Mike and calling the blocking assignments is hugely important and Halapio sucks at it.
RE: I don't remember  
jcn56 : 12/3/2019 1:14 pm : link
In comment 14701156 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Anyone really liking Pio. I remember some fans saying he should be given time to show what kind of a player he is which certainly is reasonable. If anyone was touting Pio on here it was very few


There were quite a few who pinned Halapio's injury and exit on a decline in OL performance, and had him penciled in as an upgrade for this year. Apparently, the GM was of like mind.

Taking a flyer on Halapio isn't the end of the world, so long as you have a backup plan. When that backup plan is Pulley, well, you got what you paid for.
RE: Why Use A Tight End to Block.  
regulator : 12/3/2019 1:53 pm : link
In comment 14701134 NJLCO said:
Quote:
Last night the Seahawks used another O line guy to block and we use a double tight end and both get their assís handed to them. Look at 82 & 83. The Seahawks show run and say stop us. The week before last Cross and Banks on the post game said this exact same thing. Double up and at least get through the first level. We can even get back to the line of scrimmage




Did you see Simonson get rag-dolled on the first clip in Baldy's Breakdown? To begin with, he didn't know his assignment, but then he comes off the ball tentatively and gets tossed. Didn't stand a chance... not an NFL-caliber player.

Smith actually looked serviceable as a blocker. I'd like to see more of that. To me, he looks like a younger, cheaper, more athletic Rhett Ellison. Smith could make Ellison expendable ($5m total savings).
RE: RE: Why Use A Tight End to Block.  
Matt M. : 12/3/2019 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14701266 regulator said:
Quote:
In comment 14701134 NJLCO said:


Quote:


Last night the Seahawks used another O line guy to block and we use a double tight end and both get their assís handed to them. Look at 82 & 83. The Seahawks show run and say stop us. The week before last Cross and Banks on the post game said this exact same thing. Double up and at least get through the first level. We can even get back to the line of scrimmage






Did you see Simonson get rag-dolled on the first clip in Baldy's Breakdown? To begin with, he didn't know his assignment, but then he comes off the ball tentatively and gets tossed. Didn't stand a chance... not an NFL-caliber player.

Smith actually looked serviceable as a blocker. I'd like to see more of that. To me, he looks like a younger, cheaper, more athletic Rhett Ellison. Smith could make Ellison expendable ($5m total savings).
Agree on both assessments (Simonson and Smith).
One burning question for me is why is Halapio still starting?  
Matt M. : 12/3/2019 2:01 pm : link
To me, he was never a clear cut better option than Pulley last year or this year entering either season. Whether it be camp or regular season, Halapio never did a damned thing to set himself apart from anyone else or to allow anyone reasonable person to expect anything from mediocre or above play from him.

Now, I don't think Pulley is significantly better, but he certainly seemed much more serviceable last year when Halapio was hurt and seemed more adept at making the line calls. Given that Halapio has proven to be one of the worst OCs in the league, why is Pulley still on the bench for this clown?
For me, the most telling part of that video  
Matt M. : 12/3/2019 2:02 pm : link
is Baldy mentioning this is a D GB runs every week (their look on 3rd and 1). There is a ton of film on it. It should be an easy call for the OL. This is a glaring example of this team being poorly coached and ill prepared.
Could Baldinger be convinced to coach?  
Matt M. : 12/3/2019 2:05 pm : link
He seems like he would potentially be a decent OL coach. He breaks down a lot of OL film every week. Has he ever shown any inclination to go that route, as opposed to broadcasting?
Halapio was the problem...  
Brown_Hornet : 12/3/2019 2:17 pm : link
Ö?
How?

Play 1 is on Remmers. He's the away T on Inside Zone.
Play 2 If they knew that this formation was coming Remmers has to block down allowing Zeitler/Pio to block down left...OR...DJ recognizes that the play is a loser and check's out.

While I agree with the idea that they are poorly coached, I don't see these 2 plays as indictments of the C.
Can This Be Viewed On An iPhone Without A Twitter Acct?  
Trainmaster : 12/3/2019 2:29 pm : link
If so, how?

Otherwise, Iíll wait until I get home from work.
RE: Halapio was the problem...  
Matt M. : 12/3/2019 2:32 pm : link
In comment 14701323 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
Ö?
How?

Play 1 is on Remmers. He's the away T on Inside Zone.
Play 2 If they knew that this formation was coming Remmers has to block down allowing Zeitler/Pio to block down left...OR...DJ recognizes that the play is a loser and check's out.

While I agree with the idea that they are poorly coached, I don't see these 2 plays as indictments of the C.
For onje thing, the OC is making the OL calls. Play 1 is hard to discern if it is Remmers or Simonson who is supposed to block the DE. Remmers at least seemed more aggressive in his decision to block down. We have no way of knowing if he was supposed to double with Zeitler, as he did, or double with Simonson. Either way, Simonson appeared to have no clue who he was blocking. He kind of stuck in the middle with arms out to either side, which I find hard to believe was his assignment. If he was supposed to block the DE, even if he was expecting help from Remmers, it would be nice if he approached it like he meant it. Instead, he essentially blocked nobody.

On the second play, the issue seems to be between Pio and Hernandez, regardless of what Zeitler and remmers are doing. Pio clearly expected Hernandez to double the NT. Again, we have no way of knowing what the correct assignment was for Hernandez or Halapio. But, Halapio is the one responsible for the OL calls, which have seemed to be a problem all year long.
RE: RE: Halapio was the problem...  
sb from NYT Forum : 12/3/2019 2:41 pm : link
Quote:
On the second play, the issue seems to be between Pio and Hernandez, regardless of what Zeitler and remmers are doing. Pio clearly expected Hernandez to double the NT. Again, we have no way of knowing what the correct assignment was for Hernandez or Halapio. But, Halapio is the one responsible for the OL calls, which have seemed to be a problem all year long.


Also, after the second play, notice how Halapio mentions to Hernandez that he (Hernandez) was supposed to help with the NT. But just as Baldinger pointed out, "why are you telling him that after the play?!?"
RE: RE: RE: Halapio was the problem...  
BillKo : 12/3/2019 2:48 pm : link
In comment 14701372 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:


Quote:


On the second play, the issue seems to be between Pio and Hernandez, regardless of what Zeitler and remmers are doing. Pio clearly expected Hernandez to double the NT. Again, we have no way of knowing what the correct assignment was for Hernandez or Halapio. But, Halapio is the one responsible for the OL calls, which have seemed to be a problem all year long.



Also, after the second play, notice how Halapio mentions to Hernandez that he (Hernandez) was supposed to help with the NT. But just as Baldinger pointed out, "why are you telling him that after the play?!?"


Maybe because he assumed he knew his assignment. He blew it, so Pio points it out.

After reading this thread, I'm not sure what the issue is...........players or coaches?
RE: RE: Halapio has absolutely no resume to suggest he's an NFL player  
Greg from LI : 12/3/2019 2:52 pm : link
In comment 14701128 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think this may be the most damning indictment of both the GM and HC. BOTH kept waxing on and on about how good Halapio is. WTF?!


The love they have for Halapio has always been bizarre. This is a guy who went through three organizations (one of them, the Patriots, twice) over three years without ever suiting up for an NFL game. Giants pick him up on the practice squad, he manages to finally get on an active roster and play a few games at guard when Fluker gets hurt. So, going into 2018 he's a 27 year old with all of six NFL starts at guard.....and he gets installed as the starting center?? And then they don't bring in anyone to compete with him for the job in 2019?

Massive, massive failure.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Halapio was the problem...  
jcn56 : 12/3/2019 2:55 pm : link
In comment 14701376 BillKo said:
Quote:

After reading this thread, I'm not sure what the issue is...........players or coaches?


Both.
Even if you concede the Center is well below average  
arniefez : 12/3/2019 3:00 pm : link
and the center is the QB of the OL the other 4 guys are certainly league average with competent coaching and the Giants OL Gamedays like one of the very worst in the NFL.

We all know how important coaching is in the NFL compared to the other 3 major sports but I think even those of us who realize the biggest problem the Giants have is HC are underestimating just how horrible Shurmur is. He really is what his record says he is.
RE: Even if you concede the Center is well below average  
Greg from LI : 12/3/2019 3:04 pm : link
In comment 14701390 arniefez said:
Quote:
the other 4 guys are certainly league average with competent coaching


That's highly questionable
OL calls are not all made by the C...  
Brown_Hornet : 12/3/2019 3:05 pm : link
...and every member of the OL is responsible for knowing how to block every front.

Also, they should ALL be communicating.

Zone is Zone. (based on how each team has decides to block it)
1, 2, 3, 3i, 30...whatever. Each guy should know his assignment based on formation and having their eyes open (blitzes/line shifts).

Sure, a well executed gap exchange or twist can trip up any given play, but this is not "the C didn't make a good line call."
This is bad coaching.

RE: RE: Even if you concede the Center is well below average  
Matt M. : 12/3/2019 3:07 pm : link
In comment 14701398 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14701390 arniefez said:


Quote:


the other 4 guys are certainly league average with competent coaching



That's highly questionable
Agreed. I don't think Solder or Remmers has shown to be average by any stretch. I'll agree on Hernandez and Zeitler being at least average.
RE: RE: RE: Halapio has absolutely no resume to suggest he's an NFL player  
Matt M. : 12/3/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14701379 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14701128 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I think this may be the most damning indictment of both the GM and HC. BOTH kept waxing on and on about how good Halapio is. WTF?!



The love they have for Halapio has always been bizarre. This is a guy who went through three organizations (one of them, the Patriots, twice) over three years without ever suiting up for an NFL game. Giants pick him up on the practice squad, he manages to finally get on an active roster and play a few games at guard when Fluker gets hurt. So, going into 2018 he's a 27 year old with all of six NFL starts at guard.....and he gets installed as the starting center?? And then they don't bring in anyone to compete with him for the job in 2019?

Massive, massive failure.
Spot on. It is head scratching. Hell, they didn't even really let Pulley compete with him, and Pulley at least performed better than him last year.
RE: OL calls are not all made by the C...  
Matt M. : 12/3/2019 3:09 pm : link
In comment 14701400 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...and every member of the OL is responsible for knowing how to block every front.

Also, they should ALL be communicating.

Zone is Zone. (based on how each team has decides to block it)
1, 2, 3, 3i, 30...whatever. Each guy should know his assignment based on formation and having their eyes open (blitzes/line shifts).

Sure, a well executed gap exchange or twist can trip up any given play, but this is not "the C didn't make a good line call."
This is bad coaching.
I'll give you that this OL play is an example of poor coaching.
On the second play, couldn't it be Hernandez's mental mistake?  
CT Charlie : 12/3/2019 5:39 pm : link
If he'd blocked to his right, Saquon would have got what he needed. It must stink to be Saquon right now.
They run 4 blockers versus 5 defenders.....  
Rafflee : 12/3/2019 5:57 pm : link
then, they can;t figure out how to block 4 defenders with 5 guys. They let edge rushers run free...or they try to assign a back offset to the left to man up an edge rusher from the right.

There are too many fucking counting errors for second season 13th week! This is coaching.... they're not evn getting a chance to fail on Talent---the assignment recognition is so bad!!!!
"It's just hard to watch, man."  
Raultney : 12/3/2019 5:59 pm : link
"It's hard to watch and it's inexcusable."

Balloon Knot - ( New Window )
RE: I'm in the camp that sees regression...  
Rafflee : 12/3/2019 6:03 pm : link
In comment 14701175 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
Why is a different question, but to me there is no question that the OL looked more prepared earlier in the season than they do now.

I remember at the beginning of the season being impressed at times with the quality of OL play and feeling like while there was a lot of room to improve, they were no longer a bottom five in the league type of unit.

I agree..... obviously they lack in game and game to game quality depth. I'm sure some of their guys are playing hurt....but that doesn't explain the simple counting errors in play selection and blocking assignments. Jones is missing pre snap reads to get out of disaster plays---- the Oline is miscounting on blocking assignments (watch the Baldy Video)

It's entirely NOT UNDERSTANDABLE!!!!!

The errors I'm seeing on the OL now look very similar to the errors seen under every other regime with whatever players here over the years.
Everyone here is killing Halapio  
Marty866b : 12/3/2019 6:18 pm : link
And rightfully so but why does Hernandez get a pass. He's been shit too. Dave Gettleman takes pride in building offensive lines,huh?
RE: Everyone here is killing Halapio  
nzyme : 12/3/2019 7:06 pm : link
In comment 14701823 Marty866b said:
Quote:
And rightfully so but why does Hernandez get a pass. He's been shit too. Dave Gettleman takes pride in building offensive lines,huh?


Baldinger is right. I don't think it's the players per say. If they don't even know what the hell they are doing it won't matter if the players are wearing red capes with an 'S' on them. They're going to fail!
wow - couldn't watch this at work today so just seeing it now -  
Del Shofner : 12/3/2019 7:10 pm : link
this really sums it up. Amateur hour. Poor Barkley, you can see why he's not gaining many yards.
This is OBVIOUSLY an indication of poor coaching...  
EricJ : 12/3/2019 7:32 pm : link
and I am also thinking back to other videos Baldy posted this season. It all spells wrong blocking assignments, communication, etc..

This is why I am not TOO quick to point the finger at DG completely. It is possible that a few of these guys actually CAN play well if they had the right direction.

It does not make sense that EVERY GUY we picked up over the past few years cannot play at all. The odds of that happening are so slim.

Then, when you look at a few of the guys we let go from the OL, they are playing better on their new teams. Not pro bowl caliber at all... but getting the job done for the most part.

Coaching, coaching, coaching.....  
George from PA : 12/4/2019 3:42 am : link
In these examples, I can not speak to anyone's talent....as this is not an example of poor blocking....but poor blocking assignment....which falls on coaching.

Which is only explanation how 5 players that should be better but are playing worse.

Just SAD
Makes you wonder why DG swapped out the old OL  
TD : 12/4/2019 6:41 am : link
If itís really a coaching issue, he should have seen that. If itís a talent issue, clearly it hasnít been improved. Either way, I blame coaching AND the GM.

This management team is just not getting it done. Chris Mara (and any other Maras involved in day-to-day mgmt) need to step aside and bring in a football guy/mgmt team to run things.

That video is hard to watch. And it is just a snapshot.
Its Barkley's fault  
Jimmy Googs : 12/4/2019 7:07 am : link
the lanes were there...
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