Last night the Seahawks used another O line guy to block and we use a double tight end and both get their ass’s handed to them. Look at 82 & 83. The Seahawks show run and say stop us. The week before last Cross and Banks on the post game said this exact same thing. Double up and at least get through the first level. We can even get back to the line of scrimmage
Did you see Simonson get rag-dolled on the first clip in Baldy's Breakdown? To begin with, he didn't know his assignment, but then he comes off the ball tentatively and gets tossed. Didn't stand a chance... not an NFL-caliber player.
Smith actually looked serviceable as a blocker. I'd like to see more of that. To me, he looks like a younger, cheaper, more athletic Rhett Ellison. Smith could make Ellison expendable ($5m total savings).
Agree on both assessments (Simonson and Smith).
One burning question for me is why is Halapio still starting? Â
To me, he was never a clear cut better option than Pulley last year or this year entering either season. Whether it be camp or regular season, Halapio never did a damned thing to set himself apart from anyone else or to allow anyone reasonable person to expect anything from mediocre or above play from him.
Now, I don't think Pulley is significantly better, but he certainly seemed much more serviceable last year when Halapio was hurt and seemed more adept at making the line calls. Given that Halapio has proven to be one of the worst OCs in the league, why is Pulley still on the bench for this clown?
is Baldy mentioning this is a D GB runs every week (their look on 3rd and 1). There is a ton of film on it. It should be an easy call for the OL. This is a glaring example of this team being poorly coached and ill prepared.
He seems like he would potentially be a decent OL coach. He breaks down a lot of OL film every week. Has he ever shown any inclination to go that route, as opposed to broadcasting?
Play 1 is on Remmers. He's the away T on Inside Zone.
Play 2 If they knew that this formation was coming Remmers has to block down allowing Zeitler/Pio to block down left...OR...DJ recognizes that the play is a loser and check's out.
While I agree with the idea that they are poorly coached, I don't see these 2 plays as indictments of the C.
Can This Be Viewed On An iPhone Without A Twitter Acct? Â
Play 1 is on Remmers. He's the away T on Inside Zone.
Play 2 If they knew that this formation was coming Remmers has to block down allowing Zeitler/Pio to block down left...OR...DJ recognizes that the play is a loser and check's out.
While I agree with the idea that they are poorly coached, I don't see these 2 plays as indictments of the C.
For onje thing, the OC is making the OL calls. Play 1 is hard to discern if it is Remmers or Simonson who is supposed to block the DE. Remmers at least seemed more aggressive in his decision to block down. We have no way of knowing if he was supposed to double with Zeitler, as he did, or double with Simonson. Either way, Simonson appeared to have no clue who he was blocking. He kind of stuck in the middle with arms out to either side, which I find hard to believe was his assignment. If he was supposed to block the DE, even if he was expecting help from Remmers, it would be nice if he approached it like he meant it. Instead, he essentially blocked nobody.
On the second play, the issue seems to be between Pio and Hernandez, regardless of what Zeitler and remmers are doing. Pio clearly expected Hernandez to double the NT. Again, we have no way of knowing what the correct assignment was for Hernandez or Halapio. But, Halapio is the one responsible for the OL calls, which have seemed to be a problem all year long.
On the second play, the issue seems to be between Pio and Hernandez, regardless of what Zeitler and remmers are doing. Pio clearly expected Hernandez to double the NT. Again, we have no way of knowing what the correct assignment was for Hernandez or Halapio. But, Halapio is the one responsible for the OL calls, which have seemed to be a problem all year long.
Also, after the second play, notice how Halapio mentions to Hernandez that he (Hernandez) was supposed to help with the NT. But just as Baldinger pointed out, "why are you telling him that after the play?!?"
On the second play, the issue seems to be between Pio and Hernandez, regardless of what Zeitler and remmers are doing. Pio clearly expected Hernandez to double the NT. Again, we have no way of knowing what the correct assignment was for Hernandez or Halapio. But, Halapio is the one responsible for the OL calls, which have seemed to be a problem all year long.
Also, after the second play, notice how Halapio mentions to Hernandez that he (Hernandez) was supposed to help with the NT. But just as Baldinger pointed out, "why are you telling him that after the play?!?"
Maybe because he assumed he knew his assignment. He blew it, so Pio points it out.
After reading this thread, I'm not sure what the issue is...........players or coaches?
RE: RE: Halapio has absolutely no resume to suggest he's an NFL player Â
I think this may be the most damning indictment of both the GM and HC. BOTH kept waxing on and on about how good Halapio is. WTF?!
The love they have for Halapio has always been bizarre. This is a guy who went through three organizations (one of them, the Patriots, twice) over three years without ever suiting up for an NFL game. Giants pick him up on the practice squad, he manages to finally get on an active roster and play a few games at guard when Fluker gets hurt. So, going into 2018 he's a 27 year old with all of six NFL starts at guard.....and he gets installed as the starting center?? And then they don't bring in anyone to compete with him for the job in 2019?
and the center is the QB of the OL the other 4 guys are certainly league average with competent coaching and the Giants OL Gamedays like one of the very worst in the NFL.
We all know how important coaching is in the NFL compared to the other 3 major sports but I think even those of us who realize the biggest problem the Giants have is HC are underestimating just how horrible Shurmur is. He really is what his record says he is.
RE: Even if you concede the Center is well below average Â
...and every member of the OL is responsible for knowing how to block every front.
Also, they should ALL be communicating.
Zone is Zone. (based on how each team has decides to block it)
1, 2, 3, 3i, 30...whatever. Each guy should know his assignment based on formation and having their eyes open (blitzes/line shifts).
Sure, a well executed gap exchange or twist can trip up any given play, but this is not "the C didn't make a good line call."
This is bad coaching.
RE: RE: Even if you concede the Center is well below average Â
I think this may be the most damning indictment of both the GM and HC. BOTH kept waxing on and on about how good Halapio is. WTF?!
The love they have for Halapio has always been bizarre. This is a guy who went through three organizations (one of them, the Patriots, twice) over three years without ever suiting up for an NFL game. Giants pick him up on the practice squad, he manages to finally get on an active roster and play a few games at guard when Fluker gets hurt. So, going into 2018 he's a 27 year old with all of six NFL starts at guard.....and he gets installed as the starting center?? And then they don't bring in anyone to compete with him for the job in 2019?
Massive, massive failure.
Spot on. It is head scratching. Hell, they didn't even really let Pulley compete with him, and Pulley at least performed better than him last year.
...and every member of the OL is responsible for knowing how to block every front.
Also, they should ALL be communicating.
Zone is Zone. (based on how each team has decides to block it)
1, 2, 3, 3i, 30...whatever. Each guy should know his assignment based on formation and having their eyes open (blitzes/line shifts).
Sure, a well executed gap exchange or twist can trip up any given play, but this is not "the C didn't make a good line call."
This is bad coaching.
I'll give you that this OL play is an example of poor coaching.
On the second play, couldn't it be Hernandez's mental mistake? Â
then, they can;t figure out how to block 4 defenders with 5 guys. They let edge rushers run free...or they try to assign a back offset to the left to man up an edge rusher from the right.
There are too many fucking counting errors for second season 13th week! This is coaching.... they're not evn getting a chance to fail on Talent---the assignment recognition is so bad!!!!
Why is a different question, but to me there is no question that the OL looked more prepared earlier in the season than they do now.
I remember at the beginning of the season being impressed at times with the quality of OL play and feeling like while there was a lot of room to improve, they were no longer a bottom five in the league type of unit.
I agree..... obviously they lack in game and game to game quality depth. I'm sure some of their guys are playing hurt....but that doesn't explain the simple counting errors in play selection and blocking assignments. Jones is missing pre snap reads to get out of disaster plays---- the Oline is miscounting on blocking assignments (watch the Baldy Video)
It's entirely NOT UNDERSTANDABLE!!!!!
The errors I'm seeing on the OL now look very similar to the errors seen under every other regime with whatever players here over the years.
And rightfully so but why does Hernandez get a pass. He's been shit too. Dave Gettleman takes pride in building offensive lines,huh?
Baldinger is right. I don't think it's the players per say. If they don't even know what the hell they are doing it won't matter if the players are wearing red capes with an 'S' on them. They're going to fail!
wow - couldn't watch this at work today so just seeing it now - Â
and I am also thinking back to other videos Baldy posted this season. It all spells wrong blocking assignments, communication, etc..
This is why I am not TOO quick to point the finger at DG completely. It is possible that a few of these guys actually CAN play well if they had the right direction.
It does not make sense that EVERY GUY we picked up over the past few years cannot play at all. The odds of that happening are so slim.
Then, when you look at a few of the guys we let go from the OL, they are playing better on their new teams. Not pro bowl caliber at all... but getting the job done for the most part.
In these examples, I can not speak to anyone's talent....as this is not an example of poor blocking....but poor blocking assignment....which falls on coaching.
Which is only explanation how 5 players that should be better but are playing worse.
If it’s really a coaching issue, he should have seen that. If it’s a talent issue, clearly it hasn’t been improved. Either way, I blame coaching AND the GM.
This management team is just not getting it done. Chris Mara (and any other Maras involved in day-to-day mgmt) need to step aside and bring in a football guy/mgmt team to run things.
That video is hard to watch. And it is just a snapshot.
Quote:
Last night the Seahawks used another O line guy to block and we use a double tight end and both get their ass’s handed to them. Look at 82 & 83. The Seahawks show run and say stop us. The week before last Cross and Banks on the post game said this exact same thing. Double up and at least get through the first level. We can even get back to the line of scrimmage
Did you see Simonson get rag-dolled on the first clip in Baldy's Breakdown? To begin with, he didn't know his assignment, but then he comes off the ball tentatively and gets tossed. Didn't stand a chance... not an NFL-caliber player.
Smith actually looked serviceable as a blocker. I'd like to see more of that. To me, he looks like a younger, cheaper, more athletic Rhett Ellison. Smith could make Ellison expendable ($5m total savings).
Now, I don't think Pulley is significantly better, but he certainly seemed much more serviceable last year when Halapio was hurt and seemed more adept at making the line calls. Given that Halapio has proven to be one of the worst OCs in the league, why is Pulley still on the bench for this clown?
How?
Play 1 is on Remmers. He's the away T on Inside Zone.
Play 2 If they knew that this formation was coming Remmers has to block down allowing Zeitler/Pio to block down left...OR...DJ recognizes that the play is a loser and check's out.
While I agree with the idea that they are poorly coached, I don't see these 2 plays as indictments of the C.
Otherwise, I’ll wait until I get home from work.
How?
Play 1 is on Remmers. He's the away T on Inside Zone.
Play 2 If they knew that this formation was coming Remmers has to block down allowing Zeitler/Pio to block down left...OR...DJ recognizes that the play is a loser and check's out.
While I agree with the idea that they are poorly coached, I don't see these 2 plays as indictments of the C.
On the second play, the issue seems to be between Pio and Hernandez, regardless of what Zeitler and remmers are doing. Pio clearly expected Hernandez to double the NT. Again, we have no way of knowing what the correct assignment was for Hernandez or Halapio. But, Halapio is the one responsible for the OL calls, which have seemed to be a problem all year long.
Also, after the second play, notice how Halapio mentions to Hernandez that he (Hernandez) was supposed to help with the NT. But just as Baldinger pointed out, "why are you telling him that after the play?!?"
Quote:
On the second play, the issue seems to be between Pio and Hernandez, regardless of what Zeitler and remmers are doing. Pio clearly expected Hernandez to double the NT. Again, we have no way of knowing what the correct assignment was for Hernandez or Halapio. But, Halapio is the one responsible for the OL calls, which have seemed to be a problem all year long.
Also, after the second play, notice how Halapio mentions to Hernandez that he (Hernandez) was supposed to help with the NT. But just as Baldinger pointed out, "why are you telling him that after the play?!?"
Maybe because he assumed he knew his assignment. He blew it, so Pio points it out.
After reading this thread, I'm not sure what the issue is...........players or coaches?
The love they have for Halapio has always been bizarre. This is a guy who went through three organizations (one of them, the Patriots, twice) over three years without ever suiting up for an NFL game. Giants pick him up on the practice squad, he manages to finally get on an active roster and play a few games at guard when Fluker gets hurt. So, going into 2018 he's a 27 year old with all of six NFL starts at guard.....and he gets installed as the starting center?? And then they don't bring in anyone to compete with him for the job in 2019?
Massive, massive failure.
After reading this thread, I'm not sure what the issue is...........players or coaches?
Both.
We all know how important coaching is in the NFL compared to the other 3 major sports but I think even those of us who realize the biggest problem the Giants have is HC are underestimating just how horrible Shurmur is. He really is what his record says he is.
That's highly questionable
Also, they should ALL be communicating.
Zone is Zone. (based on how each team has decides to block it)
1, 2, 3, 3i, 30...whatever. Each guy should know his assignment based on formation and having their eyes open (blitzes/line shifts).
Sure, a well executed gap exchange or twist can trip up any given play, but this is not "the C didn't make a good line call."
This is bad coaching.
Quote:
the other 4 guys are certainly league average with competent coaching
That's highly questionable
Quote:
I think this may be the most damning indictment of both the GM and HC. BOTH kept waxing on and on about how good Halapio is. WTF?!
The love they have for Halapio has always been bizarre. This is a guy who went through three organizations (one of them, the Patriots, twice) over three years without ever suiting up for an NFL game. Giants pick him up on the practice squad, he manages to finally get on an active roster and play a few games at guard when Fluker gets hurt. So, going into 2018 he's a 27 year old with all of six NFL starts at guard.....and he gets installed as the starting center?? And then they don't bring in anyone to compete with him for the job in 2019?
Massive, massive failure.
Also, they should ALL be communicating.
Zone is Zone. (based on how each team has decides to block it)
1, 2, 3, 3i, 30...whatever. Each guy should know his assignment based on formation and having their eyes open (blitzes/line shifts).
Sure, a well executed gap exchange or twist can trip up any given play, but this is not "the C didn't make a good line call."
This is bad coaching.
There are too many fucking counting errors for second season 13th week! This is coaching.... they're not evn getting a chance to fail on Talent---the assignment recognition is so bad!!!!
Balloon Knot - ( New Window )
I remember at the beginning of the season being impressed at times with the quality of OL play and feeling like while there was a lot of room to improve, they were no longer a bottom five in the league type of unit.
I agree..... obviously they lack in game and game to game quality depth. I'm sure some of their guys are playing hurt....but that doesn't explain the simple counting errors in play selection and blocking assignments. Jones is missing pre snap reads to get out of disaster plays---- the Oline is miscounting on blocking assignments (watch the Baldy Video)
It's entirely NOT UNDERSTANDABLE!!!!!
The errors I'm seeing on the OL now look very similar to the errors seen under every other regime with whatever players here over the years.
Baldinger is right. I don't think it's the players per say. If they don't even know what the hell they are doing it won't matter if the players are wearing red capes with an 'S' on them. They're going to fail!
This is why I am not TOO quick to point the finger at DG completely. It is possible that a few of these guys actually CAN play well if they had the right direction.
It does not make sense that EVERY GUY we picked up over the past few years cannot play at all. The odds of that happening are so slim.
Then, when you look at a few of the guys we let go from the OL, they are playing better on their new teams. Not pro bowl caliber at all... but getting the job done for the most part.
Which is only explanation how 5 players that should be better but are playing worse.
Just SAD
This management team is just not getting it done. Chris Mara (and any other Maras involved in day-to-day mgmt) need to step aside and bring in a football guy/mgmt team to run things.
That video is hard to watch. And it is just a snapshot.