McAdoo retained most of Coughlin's staff, but not Flaherty.
We had the most successful o-line in decades under Flaherty, while Flowers, Pugh, and Richberg had their best season together (2015) under him.
The o-line may have been physically pushed around under his final years here, but they seemed to be able to handle basic stunts and knew what they were doing.
So again, remind me why we kept everybody except him? There must have been something behind the scenes, no?
I wouldn't have hated retaining Solari from the last staff, though.
"But I don't think you should have to win the Super Bowl every four years to stay with your program, if that answers your question."
Link to the story - ( New Window )
I wouldn't have hated retaining Solari from the last staff, though.
I think I remember reading that Flaherty and Flowers butted heads? Is that right?
Flaherty Fired in Miami - ( New Window )
Well we didn't think it could get worse. It did. And now it seems we still haven't replaced him.
Maybe that's it. Maybe he wasn't adapting to the RPO stuff.
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Why did Coughlin fire him in Jax?
Well we didn't think it could get worse. It did. And now it seems we still haven't replaced him.
Also his offensive lines in JAX have not really been anything to write home about.
The OL coach the Giants should have kept is Mike Solari. Solari has built two of the best OL's over the past 20 years in KC and SF. He has also done a great job with the Seahawks over the past two years.
I hope the Giants add Bill Callahan this offseason.
That's a good question. I'm pretty sure he was the only Giant here for all five Super Bowl appearances.
That said, he retired from the NFL in 2016.
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Why did Coughlin fire him in Jax?
Well we didn't think it could get worse. It did. And now it seems we still haven't replaced him.
This is flawed thinking - you could make the same argument with Reese and Gettleman. Reese had to go, he stopped being effective. Gettleman has been a disaster. That doesn't mean Reese should still have a job, it just means the Giants replaced him with the wrong guy.
They've been making a habit of that lately.
That always bothered me and then he finished his career with the damn cowboys as salt in the wound
The OL coach the Giants should have kept is Mike Solari. Solari has built two of the best OL's over the past 20 years in KC and SF. He has also done a great job with the Seahawks over the past two years.
I hope the Giants add Bill Callahan this offseason.
Excellent point about Solari. He's taken one of the worst OLs I have ever seen - the 2016 & 2017 Seattle OLs - and made it very effective.
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he was let go by Jacksonville and the Dolphins fired him right before the season after only a few months on the job. He was better than Hunter but that's not saying much.
The OL coach the Giants should have kept is Mike Solari. Solari has built two of the best OL's over the past 20 years in KC and SF. He has also done a great job with the Seahawks over the past two years.
I hope the Giants add Bill Callahan this offseason.
Excellent point about Solari. He's taken one of the worst OLs I have ever seen - the 2016 & 2017 Seattle OLs - and made it very effective.
Now, with a 3rd HC and new GM, the OL still sucks. A lot of people liked to say Reese ignored the OL. The truth is he did not. He spent high draft picks on the OL 3 years in a row. All 3 of those guys are now elsewhere. He also signed some highly sought after FAs; all sucked and all are gone.
Now, Gettleman has drafted an OL who has regressed terribly in 1 year and signed or traded for 3 of our starters. 1 has proven to be decent and the other 2 suck. I would say there is clearly a problem beyond just the GM/HC. There is an issue with our personnel staff evaluating both college and NFL OL. I think there is also a huge problem with the current and previous coaching staff in their ability to develop OL.
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The offensive line began deteriorating in 2011 and kept getting worse. Everyone started blaming the coaching staff.
You are correct. The OL is a good microcosm of what was wrong with the team and organization at that time. They had an aging OL with no depth. As that began to show, the GM made bad move after bad move. First the OC was made the culprit, even though he pointed out the OL problems. They bring in an OC to run the WC offense specifically to combat the poor OL. This offense actually produces, but the D was mostly ignored in that span, so they fire the HC and then spend a ton on D. They fire the OL when they promote the OC, who as HC ends up running a different offense with degrading results. When the HC is fired, the owner says personnel is the problem (OL has to be a big part of that), but retain the GM. The OL continued to be a glaring weakness.
Now, with a 3rd HC and new GM, the OL still sucks. A lot of people liked to say Reese ignored the OL. The truth is he did not. He spent high draft picks on the OL 3 years in a row. All 3 of those guys are now elsewhere. He also signed some highly sought after FAs; all sucked and all are gone.
Now, Gettleman has drafted an OL who has regressed terribly in 1 year and signed or traded for 3 of our starters. 1 has proven to be decent and the other 2 suck. I would say there is clearly a problem beyond just the GM/HC. There is an issue with our personnel staff evaluating both college and NFL OL. I think there is also a huge problem with the current and previous coaching staff in their ability to develop OL.
Pretty dam good summary. So many of the 'hot takes' not just on BBI but in the Media in general, don't encapsulate ALL of the circumstances at that point in time and linearly. Even your well constructed timeline leaves out some factors I'm sure.
I think the old coaches like Flaherty are struggling to teach with the limited reps they get in practice, and very few HC/OC/OL coach combinations have figured the best way to maximize time for OL to get the coaching they need.
I know the CBA doesn't allow for the coaches to work with the players outside of the prescribed numbers of practices, OTA's, etc., but I would try something different. I'd form a strong relationship with an outside consulting agency who could train the OL to work together on their own time and at their own expense. This would be like LeCharles Bentley's OLP program that several of our OL have used, but I'd work it out where there is a local guy who is 100% familiar with and coaching EXACTLY the technique I want implemented. I'd let my players know that I strongly recommend they work with that program to get the reps they need outside of camp, and I'd reinforce that by benching players who are committing mental errors.
I'd make sure to work with my players to see what locations/schedules would work for them so that the outside agency would be able to mirror.
I think you would have to be careful not to fund any of this or require it, but you should be able to communicate with both the players and the agency about their plans. You may even be able to "lease" part of your facilities for their use at a reasonable market rate.
Given the limited reps I think that this might be the only way to really develop a strong OL, and I'd be surprised if some of the better units around the league haven't already got something like this organized to help their players.