"As partners we have to be very honest with each other"

is going to fire Mara...

Do these guys not speak to each other at all during the season?

Maybe Tisch is going to read Mara the riot act. Arniefez had a great post elsewhere about the Giants' history of 50-50 deadlocks.

Well we all see how that's gone. PS is toast.

Than anyone else running the org, and is the one ostensibly the least involved

I have been hoping for a Tisch uprising, hopefully. it can be the catalyst for real change.

In comment 14701284 Del Shofner said:

Quote:

Maybe Tisch is going to read Mara the riot act. Arniefez had a great post elsewhere about the Giants' history of 50-50 deadlocks.

I meant ominous in terms of Shurmur.

Definitely promising for those hoping for a change

Bruce Beck (@BruceBeck4NY)
12/3/19, 1:44 PM
Steve Tisch�s message to ⁦‪@Giants‬⁩ fans - �I�m asking for patience. I�m being patient which you know at times is challenging. Please be understanding & patient. I want #Giants fan to feel that their voice is being heard.�

and it gives me hope.

if Tisch wasn't a fucking buffoon himself.

Bruce Beck
‏
Verified account

@BruceBeck4NY
9m9 minutes ago
More
My question to Steve Tisch at the March of Dimes Luncheon - Do you believe in your coach & GM? �Those decisions & conversation are not going to be made this morning. It�s really at the end of the season that John and I are going to sit down and talk about these issues.� #Giants

In comment 14701302 ELI THE GOAT said:

Quote:

Bruce Beck ‏ Verified account @BruceBeck4NY 9m9 minutes ago More My question to Steve Tisch at the March of Dimes Luncheon - Do you believe in your coach & GM? �Those decisions & conversation are not going to be made this morning. It�s really at the end of the season that John and I are going to sit down and talk about these issues.� #Giants

So no.
Good.

In comment 14701296 Defenderdawg said:

Quote:

Bruce Beck (@BruceBeck4NY) 12/3/19, 1:44 PM Steve Tisch�s message to ⁦‪@Giants‬⁩ fans - �I�m asking for patience. I�m being patient which you know at times is challenging. Please be understanding & patient. I want #Giants fan to feel that their voice is being heard.�

translation "Don't worry Giants fan, Papa Tisch is bringing the hammer to East Rutherford 12/30"

FIRE CHRIS FUCKING MARA, GETTLEMAN AND ALL THE OTHER CLOWNS. LETS GO!

regarding comments Mike Lombardi made about John Mara and the Giants business model. The quotes today from Tisch might be our best chance for their family to fly a plane over John Mara's office and that's probably our best hope at this point.

Quote:

Eric really needs to add a Giants history tab that educates the people who post here about the real Super Bowl era Giants history. Pete Rozelle did not save Wellington Mara from himself. Pete Rozelle got involved because the Giants are the only 50/50 ownership in the NFL. Tim Mara Jr. left 50% of the Giants to each of his two sons. Wellington and Jack. Jack died before the 1965 season and his half was inherited by his son Tim J Mara. Wellington and Tim J. HATED each other. Serious HATE. Tim J was more concerned with having a good time than anything that was going on with the Giants for most of the Wellington years but by the mid 1970s he was pushing back on Wellington and the embarrassment the team had become. After the Fumble in 1978, after fans hung Wellington in effigy from the 3rd deck in Giants Stadium (google it - Wellington was Dolan before Dolan was Dolan), after fans flew a plane over Giants Stadium complaining about lousy football Tim decided he wasn't going to let Wellington run the team anymore. The Giants had fired their head coach and GM after the 1978 season. Anyone Wellington tried to hire Tim J veto'd. Anyone Tim J suggested Wellington wouldn't consider. Tim J wanted to hire George Allen. That have been the least Wellington thing ever. There was a total 50/50 stalemate. That's why Rozelle HAD TO step in. Rozelle did identify George Young as someone who could navigate the 50/50 feuding Maras but he had to trick both of them into thinking the other guy didn't want GY to get him hired. Tim J was sick and sold his half to the Tisch family after the 1990 Super Bowl season for 75 million dollars. That's the primary reason Parcells left which is a entirely different conversation that's always gotten wrong on BBI. So even though Lombardi got a lot wrong about the Rozelle involvement the Giants are still the only 50/50 ownership in the NFL. If the Tisch family wanted to they could play the Tim J role and make things difficult for John Mara. But there has been no indication they have any interest in that type of power play. The George Young structure remained in place after the Tisch family became co-owners but after Tim J and Parcells left Wellington became more involved and the Giants went back to a dysfunctional poorly run team for most of the 1990's. Ernie Accorsi succeeded Young without all of the authority Young had when Tim J owned the team. Coughlin was forced on him and he basically quit because they didn't get along and Coughlin was Wellington's guy. Wellington passed in 2005, Ernie left after 2006 and by 2012 after the two Eli Super Bowls which were built on Ernie's last rosters Chris Mara became Senior Vice President of Player Personnel which has lead us full circle back to the Wellington years where we are now with no hope or end in sight. What Lombardi sort of gets right is that John Mara and Chris Mara need to step away from the on field product and hire their own 2020 George Young who modernize the organization like Young did and will hire a head coach and choose the players. Anyone think there's chance in hell that will happen?

Timothy J. Mara, 59, Dies; Former Co-owner of Giants - ( New Window )

Tim was the one who brought Rozelle in to fix the Giants. He was also supposedly a drunk and a philanderer who wasn't really that interested in the football side of things, but got tired of how bad the Giants were.

Now I'm not saying that Tisch is exactly the same, but it at least sounds similar?

But someone's gotta say something here to shake things up. Cross your fingers and hope for the best, I guess.

to save two of my beloved franchises. Dark times indeed.

.

Chosen field. He also seems to handle the media much better than Johnny boy. Is it true that he had to be sold PS? That wouldn't surprise me at all. If you know nothing about football, what about PS inspires confidence in you that he is a capable person?

In comment 14701306 Ben in Tampa said:

Quote:

In comment 14701296 Defenderdawg said: Quote: Bruce Beck (@BruceBeck4NY) 12/3/19, 1:44 PM Steve Tisch�s message to ⁦‪@Giants‬⁩ fans - �I�m asking for patience. I�m being patient which you know at times is challenging. Please be understanding & patient. I want #Giants fan to feel that their voice is being heard.� translation "Don't worry Giants fan, Papa Tisch is bringing the hammer to East Rutherford 12/30"

+1 Got a good laugh out of that

He just has to DEMAND a savior.

He's as much the owner as John Mara is, he can say: "Look, I'm not a football guy, I can't take over here, but this is a mess. This organization is dysfunctional. It has been bad and getting worse for years. Nobody's satisfied. YOU'RE not satisfied. It's time for both of us, and that means you and the Mara family, to step back from running the football operation and stick to an ownership role. An NFL team can't be a family business. You want to hand out money on the side to take care of ex-players, that's great, no problem. You want to be a league leader on business issues like your father, that's perfect. But we need to hire football pros to run the football side, top to bottom."

Separately, IMO, the current 50-50 ownership structure not only invites deadlocks, it hinders bringing in additional investors. Neither the Mara nor Tisch sides is going to deliberately step into a subordinate role.

In comment 14701326 Sean said:

Quote:

.

Exactly, they need to start this ball rolling behind the scenes at the very least. Why wait, this team is an absolute shit show...

But if this type of 50/50 stalemate is what it takes to get the team back to respectability, then I am all for it.

The fact that Tisch is the one who is being quoted and both Mara/DG are in hiding, says alot.

To be an important voice. I think most observers of the team, fans or not, would all agree the Giants need to clean out the system and bring in people with zero allegiances to the franchise. No more let's ask Ernie who we should hire nonsense.

into a saint and whitewash his history after he died for both personal and professional reasons like his uncle did.

He's also not in the Giants Ring of Honor which is a crime if you're a Giant fan that dates back to the 1960's.

You could make a very strong case that Tim J Mara is much more responsible for the Giants 4 Super Bowl than Wellington Mara.

If Tim J Mara didn't force Wellington out of the football operation there's no George Young and no Ernie Accorsi and an empty trophy case.
The Feud That Won Super Bowls - ( New Window )

In comment 14701335 Zeke's Alibi said:

Quote:

Chosen field.

Per wiki, Tisch "is the only person ever with a Golden Globe, an Academy Award, a Primetime Emmy Award nomination, and a Super Bowl Ring."

I suspect, as it seems many others here do, that Mara will fire Shurmur after the season but wants to keep DG. And I think he and DG will be able to convince Tisch that that is a sufficient level of change. Tisch may be frustrated, but I don't think he has the level of involvement (or, quite frankly imo, interest) to have a solid grasp of how to fix things, and I think Gettleman is experienced enough to spin a good enough story about moving the roster in the right direction for Tisch to accept.

Unless Mara wants to move forward with both Shurmur and DG, I don't think Tisch will force things beyond what Mara is already planning to do anyway.

for any successes but not do any of the work that went into it or be around for the problems. Read truebluelarry's "The Wilderness Years".

In comment 14701301 Matt M. said:

Quote:

if Tisch wasn't a fucking buffoon himself.

Bingo.

This is the problem with the Giants ownership structure and why Jawn needed to stay out of football operations in the first place. If Jawn's interventions did not turn out well, and they have been a debacle since he first stuck his nose in because he wanted his team in the SB game in his new ball park, his fellow owner feels justified in sticking his nose in and now we are back in the Welly and his brother days without anyone of Rozelle's stature to step in and force them out of football operations.

Hold on to your hats boys and girls.

In comment 14701302 ELI THE GOAT said:

Quote:

Bruce Beck ‏ Verified account @BruceBeck4NY 9m9 minutes ago More My question to Steve Tisch at the March of Dimes Luncheon - Do you believe in your coach & GM? �Those decisions & conversation are not going to be made this morning. It�s really at the end of the season that John and I are going to sit down and talk about these issues.� #Giants

I love you, Steve Tisch

we've sunk so low that we need to hope that Steve Tisch saves Mara from himself....

I certainly didn't reads this is as Tisch riding in with a "How to Fix the NYG" manual and telling Mara how to run a football team.

Rather I'd like to interpret this as Tisch telling Mara to butt out and hire a real football brain trust to make football decisions that do not have to always pass the "Giants Way" smell test.

if he does that, then he has done a lot.

In comment 14701362 Victor in CT said:

Quote:

for any successes but not do any of the work that went into it or be around for the problems. Read truebluelarry's "The Wilderness Years".

What successes? He inherited the team in 1965 and finally went off 14 years later. During that time, there were two winning seasons. The questions isn't "why did he go after his uncle?" but "why did he wait so long?"

Rozelle stepped in because the franchise was a laughing stock, the feud was in the papers, and there were threats of litigation.

In comment 14701378 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

In comment 14701362 Victor in CT said: Quote: for any successes but not do any of the work that went into it or be around for the problems. Read truebluelarry's "The Wilderness Years". What successes? He inherited the team in 1965 and finally went off 14 years later. During that time, there were two winning seasons. The questions isn't "why did he go after his uncle?" but "why did he wait so long?" Rozelle stepped in because the franchise was a laughing stock, the feud was in the papers, and there were threats of litigation.

Yes Rozelle did, but let's not make Tim to be some hero. He was lazy and uninvolved. He offered resistance but no suggestions or solutions.

Don�t know Tisch, but the standard practice in sports is to throw out a vote of confidence when asked in these situations. Folks understand that public confidence might not be sincere, but Tisch�s unwillingness to give it is interesting.

make sure you focus on the most important word

Lets unload this clown car and bring in some fresh perspective with no Giants ties.

but I�m very curious about the succession plan the Mara�s and Tisch�s have. John is 65 and Steve is 70. I could be wrong but I don�t believe either have any children involved. Maybe now is the time to sell.

Thanks I would like to read Larry's write up. Link? Any idea of where Larry sourced his take on Tim J? Because most of what's out there was put out there to make his uncle look like the good guy.

Even if Tim J was everything he's been made out to be, a drunk, lazy, weird, a philanderer etc. He still deserves more credit for the 4 Super Bowls than Wellington does. Just pushing Wellington into the background was a huge contribution and more than Wellington ever did in the Super Bowl era.

Wellington was addition by subtraction to the maximum effect.

to recognize what a trainwreck we've become.

would be wise to first consult with football minds. It's no secret John has been more involved in football operations. But these guys need to (and hopefully do) put their egos aside and have honest conversation, built around ideological conflict. I feel the root cause, or one of them, with this organizations inability to establish stability is that they have owners who want to call the shots or not be involved at all.

I mean, what qualifications does Chris Mara have to be in charge of personnel?

From a structural standpoint, I see people who occupy 2 or 3 jobs and have dual-titles. Why? Structure it so each person has accountability to themselves, their position, and each other.

The Giants are a broken organization and this isn't a Ben McAdoo, Dave Gettleman, Pat Shurmur, Kevin Abrams, etc. problem. This is an ownership problem and how they've eroded stability that gets built by playing politics inside the front office. Accorsi left this team in very good shape and then Jerry Reese blew it up.

They need to figure it out. And soon.

In comment 14701401 arniefez said:

Quote:

Thanks I would like to read Larry's write up. Link? Any idea of where Larry sourced his take on Tim J? Because most of what's out there was put out there to make his uncle look like the good guy. Even if Tim J was everything he's been made out to be, a drunk, lazy, weird, a philanderer etc. He still deserves more credit for the 4 Super Bowls than Wellington does. Just pushing Wellington into the background was a huge contribution and more than Wellington ever did in the Super Bowl era. Wellington was addition by subtraction to the maximum effect.

It's on the home page of the site under "Featured Content", "New York Giants History" arniefez

same. At least someones head is gonna roll. He's had enough.

and not just Shurmur's job.

The question is, will he?

these comments as a good thing for the majority of us who want to see wholesale cahnges

In comment 14701371 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

we've sunk so low that we need to hope that Steve Tisch saves Mara from himself....

A-fucking-men.

Does Tisch have a son or brother we can hire to scout?

Thank you.

In comment 14701301 Matt M. said:

Quote:

if Tisch wasn't a fucking buffoon himself.

I still don't know what it is exactly that Tisch has done to make people despise him.