He sucks now. There was a time where his wheels and physicality was good enough (great for a while, in fact) to overcome his shitty throwing but that’s no more.
I really need to explain that?
As for Rivera, he’d be a good hire if the FO isn’t getting rid of Gettelman. I’m all in on fully cleaning house but I’m not going to harp on it thread after thread. I’ll live with whatever happens.
You said it as if he had to overcome Cam Newton for years and years Â
That Tepper quote captures exactly what is needed here, in one sentence.
You guys want to know what's needed? It's right there. Not Ron Rivera.
GT- you can't selectively praise one quote to prop up your argument when the fundamental flaw as you see it is ownership involved in football decisions. The man you are praising also wants to to put his stamp on the football side of things. What makes him qualified as an owner to make football decisions?
Quote:
I just thought it was time given the way things have gone the last two seasons to put my stamp on this organization on the football side as we’ve done on the business side of the organization. I think as much respect as I have for Ron, I think a change was appropriate to build things the way I want things to be built.
Naa, that’s just your interpretation. He was great for a few years, despite his pretty glaring flaws. And wen they went 15-1 they had a great defense, something a previous poster was chalking up to an outlier.
You’re the one whose posting all of his accomplishments.
Like I said Rivera is a guy who keeps you in purgatory. Right around 7-9/9-7 with the outlier great season. That’s not what the Giants need, they need to hit this one out of the park
You feel like being a Giants fan is similar to someone handing you a million dollars in cash?
lol/. no my point is youre never happy...you consistently bitch and moan about every choice. i have never ONCE heard you say that was a smart move. you consistently never have ANYTHING positive to say.
What is there that's positive to say about this team?
The Giants have been, objectively, one of the worst organizations in the NFL since 2013. That's not an opinion...it's a fact.
We both want the team to be better and compete, so we're not all that different in that way. The difference is that you are more willing to kid yourself into thinking things that will make you believe the Giants are doing well. I can't do that, I'm sorry. When I see a plane crash into a mountain, I don't tell myself the passengers are all OK.
Yes he “made” playoffs 4 times but Once was with losing record.
He did go 15-1 and make the Super Bowl. But he also had a massively stacked team with 10 Pro Bowlers, and an NFL MVP QB and was unable to muster sustained winning.
He lost the SB big (24-10) as the 5.5 favorite, Blown at home (23-10) by San Fran as favorites. Got down big (24-9) to NO in a playoff game as a 12 win team and got blown out by Seattle (down 31-10) as well at home. Some of the final scores look a bit better due to late TDs.
And now has a losing year 3 out of 4 seasons.
I don’t see this as a slam dunk candidate at all.
The Giants ''need to hit this one out of the park'' Â
have a different winner each year for like a decade that ended when Carolina won 3 straight? A HoF QB in Brees with Sean Peyton was part of that stretch.
I think some of you need some perspective on what good coaching is. Rivera isn't Belichick but he's been an above average head coach in this league.
I'm not advocating for or against him in the Giants scenario, but some of these posts are flat wrong.
I think Carolina has been in the same boat we've been the past few years. They paid Cam and were stuck with him and tried making it work. His injury this year was a blessing and are likely moving on. Not they get to clean house and start over without him.
"Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." Â
You could do worse than Rivera. I don't think he's a bad coach, but he's not going to knock your socks off either. In short, you could do worse. But you could do better too.
because to me it's a league where coaching still makes a huge difference. Now I know he got the nickname riverboat Ron for going it on fourth down, so this is an interesting comment:
Quote:
Tepper will use a search committee to find the next coach. He didn't totally rule out a college coach, but he appears focused on a young, offensive-minded NFL coordinator who is willing to use analytics in a way Rivera never would.
This also does not inspire confidence:
Quote:
Rivera ended his nine-year tenure with a 76-63-1 regular-season record and a 3-4 postseason mark. Despite an NFL-best 15-1 2015 season and trip to the Super Bowl, he finished with only three winning seasons.
This sounds exactly like the Giants from 2012-2015 under Coughlin.
You read that article, and the owner just shits on a couple of often repeated fallacies on BBI.
1) Gettleman has to go up there and say he's trying to win now, what else is he going to say.
Quote:
"If people believe or fans believe that I'm going to hire the messiah in here and bring you to the promised land in one year, I got a few guys they should meet,'' Tepper said. "They can meet the Tooth Fairy, they can meet Santa Claus, I got a bridge in Brooklyn."
2) What's the point of addressing the fans mid-season, it's just a way for the fans and media to get a pound of flesh.
Quote:
"We will consider a wide range of football executives to complement our current football staff. We all must recognize that this is the first step in a process, but we are committed to building and maintaining a championship culture for our team and our fans."
"We are going to take a comprehensive and thorough review of our football operation to make sure we are structured for long-term sustained success," Tepper said.
This is what needs to happen after the season for the Giants. Link - ( New Window )
Maybe Tepper helped us out here - because a team coming off a better record of late just fired their coach and is going to do this evaluation, meanwhile Mara has plans to just leave the status quo in the FO and bring in Rivera.
Rivera is certainly an upgrade over Shurmur - but if they hire him without any sort of due diligence - real due diligence, not just Accorsi swinging by to tell a couple of Bert Jones stories followed by a thumbs-up - then nobody should be surprised when the shit football continues.
He would be a good hire. Not the sexiest pick but the safest pick with good upside. The Giants need a coach with a high floor given the results with the last two options. This is a pivotal off-season for the foreseeable future of the team.
Some posters have cried for a GM and coach “tied at the hip.” Well here you go. These guys have experience working together and align philosophically.
Rivera is a defensive HC — what this team needs. He has experience winning in this league. He has the best resume of any retreads likely on the market, with less talent.
The Giants tried the hot coordinator route with terrible results. Rolling the dice on Rhule cutting his teeth in the pros is too risky. Saleh is a gamble. Roman runs a Cracker Jack offense that requires a QB who runs a 4.4.
I’d be perfectly fine with Rivera as the next HC. I think he can be even better liberated from limited QBs running his team.
Who knows what would have happened if Eli wasn’t forced on them.
Congratulations, AJ. With post 292, you are the first to smear Eli and imply the team is a winner hamstrung by him being on the roster. For your implication to have merit, it would help if OBJ and the rest of the receivers could catch the darts was throwing in the only game that mattered. I presume you are loving the "winning" that is happening this season with Eli as a spectator.
Yes he “made” playoffs 4 times but Once was with losing record.
He did go 15-1 and make the Super Bowl. But he also had a massively stacked team with 10 Pro Bowlers, and an NFL MVP QB and was unable to muster sustained winning.
He lost the SB big (24-10) as the 5.5 favorite, Blown at home (23-10) by San Fran as favorites. Got down big (24-9) to NO in a playoff game as a 12 win team and got blown out by Seattle (down 31-10) as well at home. Some of the final scores look a bit better due to late TDs.
And now has a losing year 3 out of 4 seasons.
I don’t see this as a slam dunk candidate at all.
Nice summary here. The 3 of 9 winning seasons is a red flag.
What exactly is he good at as a HC? He’s supposedly a good defensive mind but the Panthers have largely been bottom half of the league in PPG during his tenure.
RE: RE: The Giants went the hot coordinator route Â
Who knows what would have happened if Eli wasn’t forced on them.
Congratulations, AJ. With post 292, you are the first to smear Eli and imply the team is a winner hamstrung by him being on the roster. For your implication to have merit, it would help if OBJ and the rest of the receivers could catch the darts was throwing in the only game that mattered. I presume you are loving the "winning" that is happening this season with Eli as a spectator.
I mean if you don’t think this team would be in a better situation had they started to rebuild sooner instead of trying to win with a declining Eli then I don’t know what to tell you.
The offense was bad in 2016, all the signs were there. There are reports, granted can’t be taken fully at face value, that Mcadoo wanted to trade up for Mahomes. So yes, who knows how different 2019 goes for the Giants if Eli wasn’t forced on them in 2017 and 2018, and if Mara didn’t cave to the benching backlash.
For all of McAdoos faults - and there were a lot - he was right about needing to move on from Eli.
The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
Nothing against him, but he isn't fixing this team's issues.
Per FMiC, Rivera and DG worked well together.
Does that change your mind? ;)
This is one of the many ways BBI has devolved. Posting a statement that isn't disputed around Carolina now gets one mocked here. A simple one-line statement that DG and Rivera worked well together.
Your misery is fucking awesome for the rest of us...
The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
Good for you, AJ. You keep being you. Just realize that a thread that had nothing to do with Eli, everyone managed to resist dragging him into the thread. 6 pages and 292 posts before you couldn't help yourself. There are certain posters that are predictable. I guess I'm just surprised that it wasn't Junior22.
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
Chris -- you should do a little reading on Rivera. He's on the record advocating for less technology in the game. He proudly advocates for an old school approach. He's literally getting fired because the new ownership wants a more modern approach to the game.
That doesn't mean wild, unorthodox play calls or schemes. It means value oriented roster construction, more technology on the practice field, more technology and analysis on the sidelines, and fewer mistakes by letting data make the easy calls.
The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
Good for you, AJ. You keep being you. Just realize that a thread that had nothing to do with Eli, everyone managed to resist dragging him into the thread. 6 pages and 292 posts before you couldn't help yourself. There are certain posters that are predictable. I guess I'm just surprised that it wasn't Junior22.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
The truth is that McAdoo was an offensive coordinator/HC Â
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
RE: The truth is that McAdoo was an offensive coordinator/HC Â
Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
McAdoo and Shurmur were never was.
A lot of people though Gruden would be a has been and are now praising what is happening in Oakland.
I'm tired of fooling around with coordinators. Give me a real head coach in here again.
I won't be praising Gruden too much. The Raiders lost 34-3 and 40-9 the last 2 weeks and haven't beat a team with a winning record since 2018.
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
So Rivera is a dinosaur yet his team played in a Super Bowl 4 years ago? Went to the playoffs 2 years ago and one of his long-time assistants is doing awesome in Buffalo where they lost forever.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Or you could point out that McAdoo's scheme was hot garbage. Complete vanilla that even Mahomes TODAY would struggle with. They made the playoffs in 2016 because the defense played out of its mind.
Meanwhile, your "hot coordinator" couldn't manage an offense to score more than 20 points in 19 of the 29 games he coached, something Shurmur did (with Eli as his QB, no less) in 7 of the last 8 games last year.
Maybe McAddo was early on realizing that Eli was losing his fastball, but Mac never realized that he never had one.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
That's ridiculous. This is the same nonsense bandied about with regards to fixing culture, signing Solder to stabilize the line, signing washed up vets to stabilize the locker room, hiring an adult in Shurmur, hiring a GM who understands the Giants Way.
The Giants need to hire a head coach and general manager who have the intelligence, experience, and self awareness to compete in a rapidly more analytical and technology driven game.
The goal isn't stable. It's to win a fucking championship.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
That's ridiculous. This is the same nonsense bandied about with regards to fixing culture, signing Solder to stabilize the line, signing washed up vets to stabilize the locker room, hiring an adult in Shurmur, hiring a GM who understands the Giants Way.
The Giants need to hire a head coach and general manager who have the intelligence, experience, and self awareness to compete in a rapidly more analytical and technology driven game.
The goal isn't stable. It's to win a fucking championship.
No, it's reality. What's nonsense, or a better phrase would be "much longer odds of happening, is that some unproven guy is going to come up and change the entire way of doing business successfully.
For every Sean McVay there are 100 Chip Kelly's. Even Doug Pederson's magic appeal is wearing off already. Who's the guy that was supposed to be next in Chicago? Nagy? He was the next big thing too.
No, you need to be STABLE before you win championships. You need a solid core to build upon.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Or you could point out that McAdoo's scheme was hot garbage. Complete vanilla that even Mahomes TODAY would struggle with. They made the playoffs in 2016 because the defense played out of its mind.
Meanwhile, your "hot coordinator" couldn't manage an offense to score more than 20 points in 19 of the 29 games he coached, something Shurmur did (with Eli as his QB, no less) in 7 of the last 8 games last year.
Maybe McAddo was early on realizing that Eli was losing his fastball, but Mac never realized that he never had one.
Nobody said McAdoo wasn’t flawed. But we shouldn’t avoid the hot coordinator because one with a handicapped roster failed.
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
So Rivera is a dinosaur yet his team played in a Super Bowl 4 years ago? Went to the playoffs 2 years ago and one of his long-time assistants is doing awesome in Buffalo where they lost forever.
Ok.
No one is saying that embracing analytics is required to win or that you can't win in spite of a disregard for the value of analytics. But they do have a very real value and several teams are using analytics in some form or fashion to an extent that appears - from an outsider's vantage point - to exceed the level to which the Giants use them.
If used properly, they can provide a competitive edge. If used adequately, they can help teams keep up with the pack. If ignored entirely, it's not a death knell but it is an unnecessary willingness to invite a disadvantage into the equation.
Analytics, at its core, is just data. Which is just information. Why anyone feels like it's a smart move to have a front office - and potentially coaching staff - that is in any way reluctant to use additional information (and trust it) is beyond me.
Why the fuck would any fan encourage their team to knowingly use less information than their competition?
And for the record, I'm not the one calling him a dinosaur - I'm merely repeating what the rumors are surrounding his termination. The team wants to go with a coach with a more modern approach and willingness to embrace analytics. If that doesn't read to you that THEY feel like Rivera has some antiquated elements in his approach and an unwillingness to utilize data, I don't know what to tell you.
the problem with “analytics”, a “sophisticated” word for statistics, Â
is applying the population generated # to the specific situation of the moment. Sure “probabilities” help, but something, someone, has to be able to decide what applies in a specific situation, at a specific moment of time. So statistical data is helpful but it requires an intelligent experienced human being to apply it. That’s why you won’t have a computer as your physician or football coach.
He sucks now. There was a time where his wheels and physicality was good enough (great for a while, in fact) to overcome his shitty throwing but that’s no more.
I really need to explain that?
As for Rivera, he’d be a good hire if the FO isn’t getting rid of Gettelman. I’m all in on fully cleaning house but I’m not going to harp on it thread after thread. I’ll live with whatever happens.
You guys want to know what's needed? It's right there. Not Ron Rivera.
GT- you can't selectively praise one quote to prop up your argument when the fundamental flaw as you see it is ownership involved in football decisions. The man you are praising also wants to to put his stamp on the football side of things. What makes him qualified as an owner to make football decisions?
Naa, that’s just your interpretation. He was great for a few years, despite his pretty glaring flaws. And wen they went 15-1 they had a great defense, something a previous poster was chalking up to an outlier.
That’s garbage. Rivera is a good coach.
You’re the one whose posting all of his accomplishments.
Like I said Rivera is a guy who keeps you in purgatory. Right around 7-9/9-7 with the outlier great season. That’s not what the Giants need, they need to hit this one out of the park
Quote:
In comment 14701780 Go Terps said:
Quote:
You feel like being a Giants fan is similar to someone handing you a million dollars in cash?
lol/. no my point is youre never happy...you consistently bitch and moan about every choice. i have never ONCE heard you say that was a smart move. you consistently never have ANYTHING positive to say.
What is there that's positive to say about this team?
The Giants have been, objectively, one of the worst organizations in the NFL since 2013. That's not an opinion...it's a fact.
We both want the team to be better and compete, so we're not all that different in that way. The difference is that you are more willing to kid yourself into thinking things that will make you believe the Giants are doing well. I can't do that, I'm sorry. When I see a plane crash into a mountain, I don't tell myself the passengers are all OK.
One of the worst?
Since 2017 objectively they are THE worst.
Only 3 years out of 9 with winning seasons
Yes he “made” playoffs 4 times but Once was with losing record.
He did go 15-1 and make the Super Bowl. But he also had a massively stacked team with 10 Pro Bowlers, and an NFL MVP QB and was unable to muster sustained winning.
He lost the SB big (24-10) as the 5.5 favorite, Blown at home (23-10) by San Fran as favorites. Got down big (24-9) to NO in a playoff game as a 12 win team and got blown out by Seattle (down 31-10) as well at home. Some of the final scores look a bit better due to late TDs.
And now has a losing year 3 out of 4 seasons.
I don’t see this as a slam dunk candidate at all.
John Harbaugh or Belichick or Reid shaking loose?
John Harbaugh or Belichick or Reid shaking loose?
An out of the park hire would be Roman, Rhule or Riley
And if that was all Cam Newton, which is undoubtedly the next response, why isn't Cam Newton doing that every year?
Why isn't Rivera?
Do you even read what you write sometimes?
I think if we want a total teardown, we gotta lose out. And that's very possible.
I think some of you need some perspective on what good coaching is. Rivera isn't Belichick but he's been an above average head coach in this league.
I'm not advocating for or against him in the Giants scenario, but some of these posts are flat wrong.
I'll take Rivera as an imperfect but potential winner in the mold of Coughlin.
This also does not inspire confidence:
This sounds exactly like the Giants from 2012-2015 under Coughlin.
link - ( New Window )
1) Gettleman has to go up there and say he's trying to win now, what else is he going to say.
2) What's the point of addressing the fans mid-season, it's just a way for the fans and media to get a pound of flesh.
Fewell might win more games as HC this year than Shurmur.
Quote:
"We are going to take a comprehensive and thorough review of our football operation to make sure we are structured for long-term sustained success," Tepper said.
This is what needs to happen after the season for the Giants. Link - ( New Window )
Maybe Tepper helped us out here - because a team coming off a better record of late just fired their coach and is going to do this evaluation, meanwhile Mara has plans to just leave the status quo in the FO and bring in Rivera.
Rivera is certainly an upgrade over Shurmur - but if they hire him without any sort of due diligence - real due diligence, not just Accorsi swinging by to tell a couple of Bert Jones stories followed by a thumbs-up - then nobody should be surprised when the shit football continues.
Some posters have cried for a GM and coach “tied at the hip.” Well here you go. These guys have experience working together and align philosophically.
Rivera is a defensive HC — what this team needs. He has experience winning in this league. He has the best resume of any retreads likely on the market, with less talent.
The Giants tried the hot coordinator route with terrible results. Rolling the dice on Rhule cutting his teeth in the pros is too risky. Saleh is a gamble. Roman runs a Cracker Jack offense that requires a QB who runs a 4.4.
I’d be perfectly fine with Rivera as the next HC. I think he can be even better liberated from limited QBs running his team.
Who knows what would have happened if Eli wasn’t forced on them.
Who knows what would have happened if Eli wasn’t forced on them.
Congratulations, AJ. With post 292, you are the first to smear Eli and imply the team is a winner hamstrung by him being on the roster. For your implication to have merit, it would help if OBJ and the rest of the receivers could catch the darts was throwing in the only game that mattered. I presume you are loving the "winning" that is happening this season with Eli as a spectator.
Only 3 years out of 9 with winning seasons
Yes he “made” playoffs 4 times but Once was with losing record.
He did go 15-1 and make the Super Bowl. But he also had a massively stacked team with 10 Pro Bowlers, and an NFL MVP QB and was unable to muster sustained winning.
He lost the SB big (24-10) as the 5.5 favorite, Blown at home (23-10) by San Fran as favorites. Got down big (24-9) to NO in a playoff game as a 12 win team and got blown out by Seattle (down 31-10) as well at home. Some of the final scores look a bit better due to late TDs.
And now has a losing year 3 out of 4 seasons.
I don’t see this as a slam dunk candidate at all.
Nice summary here. The 3 of 9 winning seasons is a red flag.
What exactly is he good at as a HC? He’s supposedly a good defensive mind but the Panthers have largely been bottom half of the league in PPG during his tenure.
Quote:
And made the playoffs for what it’s worth.
Who knows what would have happened if Eli wasn’t forced on them.
Congratulations, AJ. With post 292, you are the first to smear Eli and imply the team is a winner hamstrung by him being on the roster. For your implication to have merit, it would help if OBJ and the rest of the receivers could catch the darts was throwing in the only game that mattered. I presume you are loving the "winning" that is happening this season with Eli as a spectator.
I mean if you don’t think this team would be in a better situation had they started to rebuild sooner instead of trying to win with a declining Eli then I don’t know what to tell you.
The offense was bad in 2016, all the signs were there. There are reports, granted can’t be taken fully at face value, that Mcadoo wanted to trade up for Mahomes. So yes, who knows how different 2019 goes for the Giants if Eli wasn’t forced on them in 2017 and 2018, and if Mara didn’t cave to the benching backlash.
For all of McAdoos faults - and there were a lot - he was right about needing to move on from Eli.
Quote:
Nothing against him, but he isn't fixing this team's issues.
Per FMiC, Rivera and DG worked well together.
Does that change your mind? ;)
This is one of the many ways BBI has devolved. Posting a statement that isn't disputed around Carolina now gets one mocked here. A simple one-line statement that DG and Rivera worked well together.
Your misery is fucking awesome for the rest of us...
Because you know, if he was fired it means he sucks!
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
Quote:
The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
Good for you, AJ. You keep being you. Just realize that a thread that had nothing to do with Eli, everyone managed to resist dragging him into the thread. 6 pages and 292 posts before you couldn't help yourself. There are certain posters that are predictable. I guess I'm just surprised that it wasn't Junior22.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
That doesn't mean wild, unorthodox play calls or schemes. It means value oriented roster construction, more technology on the practice field, more technology and analysis on the sidelines, and fewer mistakes by letting data make the easy calls.
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In comment 14702255 Diver_Down said:
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The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
Good for you, AJ. You keep being you. Just realize that a thread that had nothing to do with Eli, everyone managed to resist dragging him into the thread. 6 pages and 292 posts before you couldn't help yourself. There are certain posters that are predictable. I guess I'm just surprised that it wasn't Junior22.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Eli threw for 4500 yards and 35 TD's in 2015. The offense was the 6th scoring offense in the NFL.
In 2016, when McAdoo took over and fully converted the offense to his own, WITH THE SAME PERSONNEL:
Eli still threw for 4000 yards and 26 TD's. The offense was the 26th scoring offense in the NFL.
You want to put that on Eli. Cool. That's not what occurred. McAdoo's offense sucked and he's still out of the NFL.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
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know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
Eli threw for 4500 yards and 35 TD's in 2015. The offense was the 6th scoring offense in the NFL.
In 2016, when McAdoo took over and fully converted the offense to his own, WITH THE SAME PERSONNEL:
Eli still threw for 4000 yards and 26 TD's. The offense was the 26th scoring offense in the NFL.
You want to put that on Eli. Cool. That's not what occurred. McAdoo's offense sucked and he's still out of the NFL.
No, Mike Sullivan was the OC. That's the truth.
If you think that the OC's sole responsibility is play calling, your view of NFL football is way more simplistic than I imagined.
Whatever the reason you want to twist and turn it into... Coughlin left, and any offensive success we had went with him.
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Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
McAdoo and Shurmur were never was.
A lot of people though Gruden would be a has been and are now praising what is happening in Oakland.
I'm tired of fooling around with coordinators. Give me a real head coach in here again.
I won't be praising Gruden too much. The Raiders lost 34-3 and 40-9 the last 2 weeks and haven't beat a team with a winning record since 2018.
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In comment 14702269 Jon in NYC said:
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know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
So Rivera is a dinosaur yet his team played in a Super Bowl 4 years ago? Went to the playoffs 2 years ago and one of his long-time assistants is doing awesome in Buffalo where they lost forever.
Ok.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Or you could point out that McAdoo's scheme was hot garbage. Complete vanilla that even Mahomes TODAY would struggle with. They made the playoffs in 2016 because the defense played out of its mind.
Meanwhile, your "hot coordinator" couldn't manage an offense to score more than 20 points in 19 of the 29 games he coached, something Shurmur did (with Eli as his QB, no less) in 7 of the last 8 games last year.
Maybe McAddo was early on realizing that Eli was losing his fastball, but Mac never realized that he never had one.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
That's ridiculous. This is the same nonsense bandied about with regards to fixing culture, signing Solder to stabilize the line, signing washed up vets to stabilize the locker room, hiring an adult in Shurmur, hiring a GM who understands the Giants Way.
The Giants need to hire a head coach and general manager who have the intelligence, experience, and self awareness to compete in a rapidly more analytical and technology driven game.
The goal isn't stable. It's to win a fucking championship.
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This franchise needs a stabilizing force.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
That's ridiculous. This is the same nonsense bandied about with regards to fixing culture, signing Solder to stabilize the line, signing washed up vets to stabilize the locker room, hiring an adult in Shurmur, hiring a GM who understands the Giants Way.
The Giants need to hire a head coach and general manager who have the intelligence, experience, and self awareness to compete in a rapidly more analytical and technology driven game.
The goal isn't stable. It's to win a fucking championship.
No, it's reality. What's nonsense, or a better phrase would be "much longer odds of happening, is that some unproven guy is going to come up and change the entire way of doing business successfully.
For every Sean McVay there are 100 Chip Kelly's. Even Doug Pederson's magic appeal is wearing off already. Who's the guy that was supposed to be next in Chicago? Nagy? He was the next big thing too.
No, you need to be STABLE before you win championships. You need a solid core to build upon.
Crawl before you walk.
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See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Or you could point out that McAdoo's scheme was hot garbage. Complete vanilla that even Mahomes TODAY would struggle with. They made the playoffs in 2016 because the defense played out of its mind.
Meanwhile, your "hot coordinator" couldn't manage an offense to score more than 20 points in 19 of the 29 games he coached, something Shurmur did (with Eli as his QB, no less) in 7 of the last 8 games last year.
Maybe McAddo was early on realizing that Eli was losing his fastball, but Mac never realized that he never had one.
Nobody said McAdoo wasn’t flawed. But we shouldn’t avoid the hot coordinator because one with a handicapped roster failed.
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In comment 14702279 Chris684 said:
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In comment 14702269 Jon in NYC said:
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know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
So Rivera is a dinosaur yet his team played in a Super Bowl 4 years ago? Went to the playoffs 2 years ago and one of his long-time assistants is doing awesome in Buffalo where they lost forever.
Ok.
No one is saying that embracing analytics is required to win or that you can't win in spite of a disregard for the value of analytics. But they do have a very real value and several teams are using analytics in some form or fashion to an extent that appears - from an outsider's vantage point - to exceed the level to which the Giants use them.
If used properly, they can provide a competitive edge. If used adequately, they can help teams keep up with the pack. If ignored entirely, it's not a death knell but it is an unnecessary willingness to invite a disadvantage into the equation.
Analytics, at its core, is just data. Which is just information. Why anyone feels like it's a smart move to have a front office - and potentially coaching staff - that is in any way reluctant to use additional information (and trust it) is beyond me.
Why the fuck would any fan encourage their team to knowingly use less information than their competition?
And for the record, I'm not the one calling him a dinosaur - I'm merely repeating what the rumors are surrounding his termination. The team wants to go with a coach with a more modern approach and willingness to embrace analytics. If that doesn't read to you that THEY feel like Rivera has some antiquated elements in his approach and an unwillingness to utilize data, I don't know what to tell you.