6-10, 11-5, 7-9, 5-7. Never had back-to-back winning seasons in Carolina despite being the coach their for 9 full years.
I think Cam Newton playing at an MVP level really made Rivera. I hope he's not a candidate to come to NY just because he has some tie to Gettleman (who should in no way be the GM of this team going forward).
6-10, 11-5, 7-9, 5-7. Never had back-to-back winning seasons in Carolina despite being the coach their for 9 full years.
I think Cam Newton playing at an MVP level really made Rivera. I hope he's not a candidate to come to NY just because he has some tie to Gettleman (who should in no way be the GM of this team going forward).
In an interview with Scott Fowler of The Charlotte Observer, Rivera provided little insight on why Panthers owner Jerry Richardson fired Gettleman, saying he was "the wrong person to ask." Rivera added he had no input on the decision and didn't even know about the pending move until Monday morning. He also expressed an eagerness to move on with training camp opening in seven days.
"The decision was made, and that's what we're going to do," Rivera said. "The biggest thing is Dave did a great job for us. He helped me to grow as a coach, he helped to put the final pieces of the puzzle together and he helped us get to the Super Bowl."
Quote:
Rivera, however, didn't have issues with Gettleman.
"No matter how tense things got, we always talked our way through it," Rivera told Fowler. "I talked to Dave [on Monday] because I wanted to make sure he knew I appreciated everything he did for me."
Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
McAdoo and Shurmur were never was.
A lot of people though Gruden would be a has been and are now praising what is happening in Oakland.
I'm tired of fooling around with coordinators. Give me a real head coach in here again.
in the NY Football Panthers. I really hope we don't give this any more than three seconds of thought...
Yes, Rivera is by default upgrade over Shurmur, but that doesn't solve the bigger problem with Gettleman. And the possibility of getting a coach who could work with a better GM.
I think he's probably the best we'll be able to land if Gettleman is still in charge and on shaky ground. With the number of NFL openings likely to be available this season the Giants aren't exactly the belle of the ball.
Norv couldn't get it done with McCaffery and the backup, Allen. I am not convinced he is as good as his reputation.
CMC is DOMINATING the NFL. if they had a QB with experience they would be VERY good....it happens. barkl;ey would be utilized
Oh I see now. 14 carries for 44 yards against the Redskins. Just what the Giants need for the underperforming Barkley.
bad games happen. this isnt fucking madden. CMC leads the league in yards from scrimmage...how does that not prove norv uses him correctly? norv would be great for barkley
Ron Rivera is a good and decent human being, who is an above-average NFL coach. There have actually been times I’ve thought his goodness and decentness held him back (i.e. keeping Mike Shula around for too long).
Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
McAdoo and Shurmur were never was.
A lot of people though Gruden would be a has been and are now praising what is happening in Oakland.
I'm tired of fooling around with coordinators. Give me a real head coach in here again.
Point taken.. but if you can’t muster a win against the Washington Redskins this year, your not the answer.. It’s probably the reason he got fired before the actual season ended...
But did Rivera and Gettleman get along down in Carolina?
DG didn't hire Rivera, but he also didn't fire him. Seems like there was always an equal respect for each other to do their job.
Ron is my choice as I think DG will survive any purge. Knowing that he can work with DG and he is a defensive minded coach is a plus. If Ron can drag Norv along to do what he has done with CMC what should be done with Barkley, all the better.
Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
McAdoo and Shurmur were never was.
A lot of people though Gruden would be a has been and are now praising what is happening in Oakland.
I'm tired of fooling around with coordinators. Give me a real head coach in here again.
Point taken.. but if you can’t muster a win against the Washington Redskins this year, your not the answer.. It’s probably the reason he got fired before the actual season ended...
The Eagles just got beat by Miami. Sh-t happens, any given Sunday.
Norv couldn't get it done with McCaffery and the backup, Allen. I am not convinced he is as good as his reputation.
CMC is DOMINATING the NFL. if they had a QB with experience they would be VERY good....it happens. barkl;ey would be utilized
Oh I see now. 14 carries for 44 yards against the Redskins. Just what the Giants need for the underperforming Barkley.
bad games happen. this isnt fucking madden. CMC leads the league in yards from scrimmage...how does that not prove norv uses him correctly? norv would be great for barkley
And what were Barkley's numbers last year? Regardless of the HC and OC, both of these RBs are outstanding. Panthers are 5-7. What were the Giants last year when Barkley had such great numbers?
I've happen to watch a decent amount of Panther games over the years Â
I felt Cam Newton was both a catapult and handicap to Rivera. They essentially had to dumb down their entire scheme to mimic what Cam ran at Auburn. The problem with that is it doesn't allow for adapatability or many in-game adjustments, and relies heavily on winning 1-on-1 battles. If you don't have the talent on the field, it doesn't work.
That being said, the team's been a few plays away from being an over .500 team with a no-name rookie QB. Even with McCaffrey, that's still pretty impressive. Give him an elite OC, and QB that we believe Jones to be and he will do damage in a division that's been mediocre in comparison to what the NFC South has been over the past decade.
Is he better than Belichick? No. But he can definitely beat him, and that's what you need in today's NFL.
The guy who is going to transform your franchise & bring a winning culture (Bill Parcells the most obvious example who did it with multiple teams), but they simply do not grow on trees. Obviously.
Then there's the "hot coordinator" route. It can work (McVay, Payton) but there are way, way more examples of miserable failures (a million to enumerate, but McAdoo and Spags are two Giants fans know well).
So the arguable next best option is to select a high floor/stabilizing type guy. Not sexy, but your Grudens, McCarthy, Jim Schwartz, Fox, and yes Ron Riviera. The relative expanses of their ceiling are uncertain, but you know they at least "belong" in the NFL holding a clipboard which is more than one can say for the 2019 NYG coaching staff.
The Giants are in such catastrophically bad shape, such a rudderless dumpster fire of a franchise, that there is a strong argument to be made that a fundamental stabilization should be paramount. When a plane is nose-diving, you avert catastrophe before worrying about climbing once more.
I don't see easy answers. This is way, way worse than Fassel to Coughlin. But those seemingly exasperated at every HC suggestion would do well to remember that once Shurmur is gone (and dear God he should be), a choice actually does need to get made. And someone out there is, if not ideal, still the least bad option. It may very well be a boring "stabilizer" type.
Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
RE: I've happen to watch a decent amount of Panther games over the years Â
I felt Cam Newton was both a catapult and handicap to Rivera. They essentially had to dumb down their entire scheme to mimic what Cam ran at Auburn. The problem with that is it doesn't allow for adapatability or many in-game adjustments, and relies heavily on winning 1-on-1 battles. If you don't have the talent on the field, it doesn't work.
That being said, the team's been a few plays away from being an over .500 team with a no-name rookie QB. Even with McCaffrey, that's still pretty impressive. Give him an elite OC, and QB that we believe Jones to be and he will do damage in a division that's been mediocre in comparison to what the NFC South has been over the past decade.
Is he better than Belichick? No. But he can definitely beat him, and that's what you need in today's NFL.
To follow your logic, does it suggest that Rivera and Turner would apply what they did with the Panthers and feature/ emphasize Barkley with a 1 on 1 matchup goal? Hey, the Panthers have/had Newton and McCaffery and the Giants have Jones and Barkley. Seems the same, n'est ce pas?
playoffs 4 of the last 7 years including a SB appearance. They are 4-7 currently playing a second year UDFA at qb. Guess the owner didn't like losing to the Redskins and Atlanta.
It's like if we're not going to get Belichick, we shouldn't hire anyone.
No one is claiming Rivera is an elite HC. What he is is a very good HC who is 13 games above .500. That warrants a good look see. I'm not saying we should hire him today, but he should warrant consideration. Abso-fucking-lutely. We could do a whole lot worse.
I bet a lot of you would be saying the same damn thing if Andy Reid shook loose. "He never won a Super Bowl!" "He would be shit without an MVP like Mahomes!"
RE: I think some of you guys have too lofty of expectations Â
It's like if we're not going to get Belichick, we shouldn't hire anyone.
No one is claiming Rivera is an elite HC. What he is is a very good HC who is 13 games above .500. That warrants a good look see. I'm not saying we should hire him today, but he should warrant consideration. Abso-fucking-lutely. We could do a whole lot worse.
I bet a lot of you would be saying the same damn thing if Andy Reid shook loose. "He never won a Super Bowl!" "He would be shit without an MVP like Mahomes!"
playoffs 4 of the last 7 years including a SB appearance. They are 4-7 currently playing a second year UDFA at qb. Guess the owner didn't like losing to the Redskins and Atlanta.
Does this mean when the Giants take that L to Washington on December 22, the next day Shurmur will be given his papers?
Probably not since it will be 2 days before Christmas.
In that case, give Shurmur his papers after the L to Miami.
bro...oi swear youre a fan of a different team....
what makes you think jones isnt capable? you just LOVE being fucking negative. seriously, how does anyone tolerate you in real life
Goddammit, bw, PICK UP THOSE POM-POMS!!!!
Hey Troll from LI, why dont you tell us how you really feel about Ron Rivera, for the seventh time on this thread. And, just in case you don't approve, do you have a different solution? Just a warning, I wouldn't support you as HC, in case you were going to suggest that...
It's like if we're not going to get Belichick, we shouldn't hire anyone.
No one is claiming Rivera is an elite HC. What he is is a very good HC who is 13 games above .500. That warrants a good look see. I'm not saying we should hire him today, but he should warrant consideration. Abso-fucking-lutely. We could do a whole lot worse.
I bet a lot of you would be saying the same damn thing if Andy Reid shook loose. "He never won a Super Bowl!" "He would be shit without an MVP like Mahomes!"
I agree with this.
And I'd include Garrett in this discussion. He has his warts but people talk about him like he's Richie Kotite. He's had a damn good run in Dallas. I would take very seriously the candidacy of both of these guys.
Hey Troll from LI, why dont you tell us how you really feel about Ron Rivera, for the seventh time on this thread. And, just in case you don't approve, do you have a different solution? Just a warning, I wouldn't support you as HC, in case you were going to suggest that...
Well, since you asked so nicely, I think Ron Rivera is a mediocre coach who rode an incredible Cam Newton season to a 15-1 record that distorts his actual track record.
BTW, sparky, since you're a 2018 registrant, you might want to rethink calling anyone else a troll.
is the Ernie Zampese offense. Which requires a lot of timing throws outside the hashes. And of the longer, intermediate variety...
Do we trust Jones to make those throws?
bro...oi swear youre a fan of a different team....
what makes you think jones isnt capable? you just LOVE being fucking negative. seriously, how does anyone tolerate you in real life
How is that negative? It's a possible issue.
Those type of throws aren't really Jones's strength. Those long outs which require zip and really good timing.
Thus far, Jones seems better suited for throws between the hashes, short timing routes, and go routes where he can put air under the ball.
Now, assuming all of this worked out and Norv was part of the package, maybe Turner makes adjustments and it's less of an issue. But traditionally that type of throw has been part of Turner's playbook.
potential connection going. In 1993, the Giants had their top 2 choices as Tom Coughlin and Dave Wannstedt. Coughlin stayed at Boston College because at that point, he had given 2 years to the program and felt that to be fair he needed to stay at least 3 years (he jumped to Jacksonville in 1994 to set up the football operations which didn't play a game until 1995). Wannstedt was the Cowboys DC and was the hot candidate. But he saw the dynasty that Jimmy Johnson had and didn't want to compete in division with him, so he went to Chicago.
That left Dan Reeves, with a fairly impressive resume, with the noticeable faux pas of getting blown out in Super Bowls with John Elway. But with him looking for a job, the Giants looking for a coach, they were both kind of standing around eyeing each other, until Frank Gifford played match maker. It was fun for 1993 when Reeves won the Coach of the Year and was a Mark Jackson drop from home field advantage in the playoffs.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the Giants will reach out to some higher profile candidates- Harbaugh, Rhule, etc. But at the end, they will look over at Rivera, who Gettleman knows and his teams have been generally competitive and for a stretch flirted with a perfect season in 2015.
I do like the idea of getting a defensive guy in here, something which hasn't happened since Parcells.
I want the Giants to explore all options, but as I said above, I see the Reeves/ Rivera parallel. Right down to giving up on a coach we all know can't do the job after 2 years (Ray Handley).
and Gettleman worked very well together. They actually have a very similar personality, which I'm sure is just something a lot of you are looking to latch onto as a negative.
Fun fact - the Panthers have NEVER had back-to-back winning seasons. Even Rivera couldn't do it with Cam.
I'm torn on him, but he does seem to have strengths right now in places we have weaknesses. He's an excellent defensive mind. He's been good at developing talent and developing coaches. And bringing in Norv elevated CMC's game. We could use a boost on D and in utilizing Saquon.
I don't often support bold moves, but I'd fire Shurmur and hire Rivera now.
BTW, still waiting on that different solution part.
Different solution? Greg Roman, Kris Richard, David Saleh....hell, Matt Rhule wouldn't be my choice but I'd rather roll the dice on him than go the predictably mediocre route and have Mr. Magoo bring in his coach from Carolina.
and Gettleman worked very well together. They actually have a very similar personality, which I'm sure is just something a lot of you are looking to latch onto as a negative.
Fun fact - the Panthers have NEVER had back-to-back winning seasons. Even Rivera couldn't do it with Cam.
I'm torn on him, but he does seem to have strengths right now in places we have weaknesses. He's an excellent defensive mind. He's been good at developing talent and developing coaches. And bringing in Norv elevated CMC's game. We could use a boost on D and in utilizing Saquon.
I don't often support bold moves, but I'd fire Shurmur and hire Rivera now.
comparisons are off base. He failed because he wanted control of the roster, urged to have a lot of mediocre Broncos brought here, and then threw everyone else under the bus when he failed.
and Gettleman worked very well together. They actually have a very similar personality, which I'm sure is just something a lot of you are looking to latch onto as a negative.
Fun fact - the Panthers have NEVER had back-to-back winning seasons. Even Rivera couldn't do it with Cam.
I'm torn on him, but he does seem to have strengths right now in places we have weaknesses. He's an excellent defensive mind. He's been good at developing talent and developing coaches. And bringing in Norv elevated CMC's game. We could use a boost on D and in utilizing Saquon.
I don't often support bold moves, but I'd fire Shurmur and hire Rivera now.
I hate the sonofabitch, but if they wanted to bring in Bud Foster as DC I could live with it. Beamer's entire career was made possible by Foster's defenses.
That was just shooting the shit, BTW. The reason Foster is retiring is due to serious health issues, and he's got more skeletons in his closet than Jeffrey Dahmer, which is why he never got a head coaching offer - a big no-no for Giants' coaches.
and Gettleman worked very well together. They actually have a very similar personality, which I'm sure is just something a lot of you are looking to latch onto as a negative.
Fun fact - the Panthers have NEVER had back-to-back winning seasons. Even Rivera couldn't do it with Cam.
I'm torn on him, but he does seem to have strengths right now in places we have weaknesses. He's an excellent defensive mind. He's been good at developing talent and developing coaches. And bringing in Norv elevated CMC's game. We could use a boost on D and in utilizing Saquon.
I don't often support bold moves, but I'd fire Shurmur and hire Rivera now.
Interesting idea. I could get behind this, especially if Turner was part of the deal. How would Gruden suit as a fallback for OC?
I have a hard time calling a 9 year stint as HC with a plus .500 career record, SB appearance, and 2x AP Coach of the year award a "failed head coach".
Some of you are out of your minds.
RE: People often forget that the NFl is designed to keep Â
I have a hard time calling a 9 year stint as HC with a plus .500 career record, SB appearance, and 2x AP Coach of the year award a "failed head coach".
Other than the 2 time coach of the year part, you just described Jim Fassel. Ol' Jimmy only won that once.
I have a peculiar inability to find joy in a pathetic 2-10 franchise. A real odd duck, I is.
its not about finding joy in a 2-10 team. its are you ever happy with ANY move. you say kris richard....if we took him and he sucked, you would probably say jesus mara never makes a good move. you ALWAYS find something to bitch about. ALWAYS. fact is rivera is strong where we are weak, it wouldnt be a horrible hire. we could do worse (shurmur and mcadoo)
is that the Panthers had been referred to here pre-Gettleman in overwhelmingly positive ways. From building a strong LB corps, to having a QB who had done things nobody had seen before.
Then we get Gettleman, and you'd swear that franchise is like the Browns or something. I used to have to provide the counter-point that the Panthers weren't so great and would often get shit for it. Yet many of those same posters soured on Carolina in one instant - hiring Gettleman. Short memories.
6-10, 11-5, 7-9, 5-7. Never had back-to-back winning seasons in Carolina despite being the coach their for 9 full years.
I think Cam Newton playing at an MVP level really made Rivera. I hope he's not a candidate to come to NY just because he has some tie to Gettleman (who should in no way be the GM of this team going forward).
Agreed on all points.
Tend to agree. I wouldn't hate Rivera, but he's not my first choice, and I'm concerned that he'd get more consideration than is warranted because of his connection to DG.
comparisons are off base. He failed because he wanted control of the roster, urged to have a lot of mediocre Broncos brought here, and then threw everyone else under the bus when he failed.
Rivera isn't going to do that.
Fatman,
Fair point on the specifics as to why Reeves was fired. I was more going along the lines that the Giants went for a guy in Reeves with a solid NFL resume after both sides realized they needed each other (for a while at least)
I do agree with you that on the surface, Rivera could be the hire the Giants hoped to get out of Reeves, until Reeves sunk himself for clashing with Young even though he agreed to work under that system as a condition of taking the job.
Rivera shouldn't have the same issue because he worked well with Gettleman before, and I defer to your specific knowledge on how they worked as this was in your backyard.
Honestly, I think Rivera was tossed out because the new owner wants to come in and make his own imprint on the team. That's how a lot of coaches come loose, ownership changes. Rivera had the Panthers competitive using a backup QB but he's had a target on his back since last year. The Panthers actually did Rivera a favor by letting him get his name out there now and look for a job. So maybe the comparison should be Coughlin getting fired in Jacksonville and everyone knew he'd end up with the Giants. If Gettleman stays and has the say in the next coach, Rivera seems like a natural fit.
BTW, still waiting on that different solution part.
Different solution? Greg Roman, Kris Richard, David Saleh....hell, Matt Rhule wouldn't be my choice but I'd rather roll the dice on him than go the predictably mediocre route and have Mr. Magoo bring in his coach from Carolina.
1. Who is David Saleh?
2. Greg Roman and Kris Richard have no HC experience and are therefore also dice rolls. I would take Rivera's proven success over them in a heartbeat.
3. Yes I registered in 2018 but have been lurking since 2004.
I always said Fassel was somewhat better than average as HC Â
So on that we agree. I just threw that out there as a barb because so many people *COUGH-Gene-COUGH* speak of him as if he were the mutant offspring of Allie Sherman and Ray Handley.
Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
McAdoo and Shurmur were never was.
A lot of people though Gruden would be a has been and are now praising what is happening in Oakland.
I'm tired of fooling around with coordinators. Give me a real head coach in here again.
Point taken.. but if you can’t muster a win against the Washington Redskins this year, your not the answer.. It’s probably the reason he got fired before the actual season ended...
you're not going to win games in the NFL with Kyle Allen as your QB. doesnt matter who the coach is
and many years exp as a HC does he have? These guys are dice rolls. trust me, my number one choice is rhule, but maybe i am wrong too....maybe someone who has won in the NFL should be the guy especially with a young team.
Rivera would go a long way in fixing our defense thats for sure
That tends to be a more judicious choice for teams who are not a total dumpster fire. Robert* Saleh will almost certainly be a HC somewhere in 2020. And even then, it is frequently a complete catastrophe. Spagnuolo really looked like HC material, but his "brilliance" turned out to be Strahan/Tuck/Umenyiora. Greg Roman's "innovation" may be little more than an extension of a top 5 NFL Head Coach's acumen & competence, a la McDaniels to Belichick.
And the Giants are a dumpster fire. A truly pathetic, rudderless, circus of a team for basically 7 years now. They should favor a known floor candidate.
Which is not to say Rivera is a great choice, but he does possess a base level of HC ability. Personally, I lean toward Jim H. But I don't think the "hot coordinator" route is one the Giants should take, given the degree of their inveterate, virtual across the board failure as an NFL team at present.
I hate the sonofabitch, but if they wanted to bring in Bud Foster as DC I could live with it. Beamer's entire career was made possible by Foster's defenses.
That was just shooting the shit, BTW. The reason Foster is retiring is due to serious health issues, and he's got more skeletons in his closet than Jeffrey Dahmer, which is why he never got a head coaching offer - a big no-no for Giants' coaches.
You missed my joke in the Knicks thread about you only calling Frank "Frenchie" because Beamer is the only Frank in your heart.
But yeah, who do you want as the HC of the Giants?
Rivera is the coaching equivalent of DG and Bettcher bringing as many ex Panthers and Cardinals as possible. Familiarity doesn't guarantee success. I'd like to see the Giants really hire an up and coming DC as HC.
Didn't win Super Bowl with undrafted QB this season. Â
So on that we agree. I just threw that out there as a barb because so many people *COUGH-Gene-COUGH* speak of him as if he were the mutant offspring of Allie Sherman and Ray Handley.
Hah - I always liked Fassel.
I'd be okay with hiring Rivera - but I don't want another charade of an interview process like when we hired DG.
That tends to be a more judicious choice for teams who are not a total dumpster fire. Robert* Saleh will almost certainly be a HC somewhere in 2020. And even then, it is frequently a complete catastrophe. Spagnuolo really looked like HC material, but his "brilliance" turned out to be Strahan/Tuck/Umenyiora. Greg Roman's "innovation" may be little more than an extension of a top 5 NFL Head Coach's acumen & competence, a la McDaniels to Belichick.
And the Giants are a dumpster fire. A truly pathetic, rudderless, circus of a team for basically 7 years now. They should favor a known floor candidate.
Which is not to say Rivera is a great choice, but he does possess a base level of HC ability. Personally, I lean toward Jim H. But I don't think the "hot coordinator" route is one the Giants should take, given the degree of their inveterate, virtual across the board failure as an NFL team at present.
Well, given that statement, I'd ask you: of what value is predictable mediocrity? Rivera is a functional head coach, unlike Shurmur, and might be able to scratch out 6 or 7 wins from this roster. Does that actually do anything to improve their long-term prospects?
when we are excited about the idea of hiring a coach who failed in his last job.
explain "failed"
some say Belichick has failed because he's had shitty drafts and shitty free agent signings. and although they play in the worst division in football AND has the the greatest QB off all time, has only won 6 superbowls out of the 20 years brady's been there
He also couldn't win the Super Bowl with 9 or 10 Pro Bowlers, including the 2015 NFL MVP.
Yeah man, it's tough to win a Super Bowl, I guess. I can't say for sure because I've never been a coach, but it seems like it's a hard thing to do.
Boy is it fucking exhausting reading posts from you and Go Terps everyday. Rather go through 100 2-14 seasons that live with either of you miserable fucks
RE: RE: Didn't win Super Bowl with undrafted QB this season. Â
He also couldn't win the Super Bowl with 9 or 10 Pro Bowlers, including the 2015 NFL MVP.
PLAYERS PLAY. the pro bowlers play like pre schoolers...everyone blames the coach for EVERYTHING. cam not jumping on a fumble is RR fault? the OL getting OWNED by von miller is RR fault>? the players play dude
and Gettleman worked very well together. They actually have a very similar personality, which I'm sure is just something a lot of you are looking to latch onto as a negative.
Fun fact - the Panthers have NEVER had back-to-back winning seasons. Even Rivera couldn't do it with Cam.
I'm torn on him, but he does seem to have strengths right now in places we have weaknesses. He's an excellent defensive mind. He's been good at developing talent and developing coaches. And bringing in Norv elevated CMC's game. We could use a boost on D and in utilizing Saquon.
I don't often support bold moves, but I'd fire Shurmur and hire Rivera now.
you're here too so you hear the noise. not saying i want Ron (cause I'd rather have someone offensive minded)....
but Panther fans had unrealistic expectations with Cam out.
Luke looks slower this year. Olsen is slower. They really miss the leadership of Thomas Davis. Shaq Thompson is just a whole bunch of potential. WRs are inexperienced
and Gettleman worked very well together. They actually have a very similar personality, which I'm sure is just something a lot of you are looking to latch onto as a negative.
Fun fact - the Panthers have NEVER had back-to-back winning seasons. Even Rivera couldn't do it with Cam.
I'm torn on him, but he does seem to have strengths right now in places we have weaknesses. He's an excellent defensive mind. He's been good at developing talent and developing coaches. And bringing in Norv elevated CMC's game. We could use a boost on D and in utilizing Saquon.
I don't often support bold moves, but I'd fire Shurmur and hire Rivera now.
His defense stinks this year...
RE: RE: RE: Didn't win Super Bowl with undrafted QB this season. Â
He also couldn't win the Super Bowl with 9 or 10 Pro Bowlers, including the 2015 NFL MVP.
Yeah man, it's tough to win a Super Bowl, I guess. I can't say for sure because I've never been a coach, but it seems like it's a hard thing to do.
Boy is it fucking exhausting reading posts from you and Go Terps everyday. Rather go through 100 2-14 seasons that live with either of you miserable fucks
finally someone agrees with me on this. him and terps are fucking UNBEARABLE
RE: RE: RE: Didn't win Super Bowl with undrafted QB this season. Â
Boy is it fucking exhausting reading posts from you and Go Terps everyday. Rather go through 100 2-14 seasons that live with either of you miserable fucks
Christ, you're not going to start sobbing again, are you?
RE: Didn't win Super Bowl with undrafted QB this season. Â
Boy is it fucking exhausting reading posts from you and Go Terps everyday. Rather go through 100 2-14 seasons that live with either of you miserable fucks
Christ, you're not going to start sobbing again, are you?
You just called someone that signed up in 2018 a troll, yet you're bringing up something from 2009.
It's like me making a jorts joke about you. Joke is a decade old. Get some new material.
standard of a "failed" coach would have eliminated Coughlin. Would have eliminated Pete Carroll and Bill Belicheck.
Would have eliminated Marv Levy. Andy Reid. Jon Gruden. Bruce Arians.
exactly....rivera is BY FAR better than mcadoo and shurmur. he is less of a risk than rhule, fleck, richard, or any other hot young coach or coordinator. i want rhule, but i dont think rivera is a bad hire
it really shouldn't have anything to do with the GM.
Rivera could be a solid choice no matter who the GM is. Gettleman never hired him in Carolina. You bring his strength in D in and pair it with Norv to get more production out of Barkley and that could be a winning combination with DG or with a different GM.
Somehow this will probably get warped into being the "familiar Giants way" if Rivera is hired.
but everyone keeps talking about Norv coming in to run the O. What kind of contract does Norv have? Couldn't the new HC want Norv to stay on and run the O in Carolina?
and Gettleman worked very well together. They actually have a very similar personality, which I'm sure is just something a lot of you are looking to latch onto as a negative.
Fun fact - the Panthers have NEVER had back-to-back winning seasons. Even Rivera couldn't do it with Cam.
I'm torn on him, but he does seem to have strengths right now in places we have weaknesses. He's an excellent defensive mind. He's been good at developing talent and developing coaches. And bringing in Norv elevated CMC's game. We could use a boost on D and in utilizing Saquon.
I don't often support bold moves, but I'd fire Shurmur and hire Rivera now.
is underselling Rivera. He is a reasonably capable NFL HC. This is known.
Would Roman or Salah be even that? Unknown. I'd be more inclined to gamble on them if the Giants were not in catastrophically bad shape with arguably ZERO elite players on the roster. But they could be completely useless as head coaches just like [insert the scores of examples of good OC/DC failing miserably as head coaches].
The point is that a choice does need to be made once Shurmur is gone (God willing...) And there are no "gotta have him" candidates out there. Even if Cowher wanted back in, he hasn't coached in 13 years.
A known floor candidate is the least bad option for the 2019/20 NYG given how bad things are. Not an argument for Rivera specifically (nor would he be my choice), but focus should be on that "type", not the hot coordinator.
I think he's probably the best we'll be able to land if Gettleman is still in charge and on shaky ground. With the number of NFL openings likely to be available this season the Giants aren't exactly the belle of the ball.
You might think that the Giants don't look like the Belle of the Ball but there is nothing like winning in NY -- the rewards are much more lucrative than most other places and the Giants are one of the premier teams in Sports.
when we are excited about the idea of hiring a coach who failed in his last job.
Belichick failed at his last job before the Pats.
Coughlin failed at his last job before the Giants.
Jon Gruden failed at his last job before the Bucs.
Just a few examples off top of my head.
Not comparing RR to them, but your point isn't valid.
when we are excited about the idea of hiring a coach who failed in his last job.
Belichick failed at his last job before the Pats.
Coughlin failed at his last job before the Giants.
Jon Gruden failed at his last job before the Bucs.
Just a few examples off top of my head.
Not comparing RR to them, but your point isn't valid.
I thought Belichick did just fine in his 1 day as HC of the NYJ.
when we are excited about the idea of hiring a coach who failed in his last job.
Belichick failed at his last job before the Pats.
Coughlin failed at his last job before the Giants.
Jon Gruden failed at his last job before the Bucs.
Just a few examples off top of my head.
Not comparing RR to them, but your point isn't valid.
I thought Belichick did just fine in his 1 day as HC of the NYJ.
when we are excited about the idea of hiring a coach who failed in his last job.
Belichick failed at his last job before the Pats.
Coughlin failed at his last job before the Giants.
Jon Gruden failed at his last job before the Bucs.
Just a few examples off top of my head.
Not comparing RR to them, but your point isn't valid.
Excellent point. And in keeping with Gettleman's stated philosophy of building to run, and stop the run, Rivera fits the bill and he and Gettleman know they can work together. I tend to be in the keep DG camp. So I sincerely hope RR comes over and brings Norv. Now I am NOT excited to see a certain former DC back in NY, but we will see.
we could do a lot worse than Rivera. Solid. Experienced. Has a Coughlin-like feel to it. Won't excite most of the fan base, but sometimes the new shiny toy can also backfire.
I'm torn on it. I'm to the point that anything but Shurmur sounds good to me.
but everyone keeps talking about Norv coming in to run the O. What kind of contract does Norv have? Couldn't the new HC want Norv to stay on and run the O in Carolina?
this is a good point. if rivera were hired it is not an automatic that norv would be coming here.
but, those saying rivera couldn't win the SB with 9-10 pro-bowlers. come on now. we know cam choked that game away.
cam is mentally soft, always has been. now, after going vegan, he is physically soft too.
i'd date rivera over either of mccarthy, garrett, saleh. probably roman. only guy who interests me more is ruhle.
What did Greg Roman ever do before Lamar Jackson started tearing up the league?
Who here wanted to hire him after his San Francisco or Buffalo tenures?
Roman is a run-first offensive coordinator. In every year he ran San Francisco's offense, they were 8th, 4th, 3rd, and 4th. He built an offense around the players they had and maximized the passing and running talent of the QB.
And he's doing the same thing in Baltimore now.
RE: If I was the Giants GM, Rivera would be on the sidelines Monday night Â
Boy is it fucking exhausting reading posts from you and Go Terps everyday. Rather go through 100 2-14 seasons that live with either of you miserable fucks
The miserable thing is being a Giants fan. The only thing that divides us is our tolerance for delusion.
Some of you pom-pom types act like we are the reason the team sucks. It's like blaming the weatherman when it rains.
Nothing against him, but he isn't fixing this team's issues.
what a shock. who do you want to be the next head coach? jesus for the love of god i hope it happens so you can stop constantly crying.
if someone handed you a million cash you would probably bitch that it wasnt in singles
Nothing against him, but he isn't fixing this team's issues.
Ron Rivera is the favorite to become next Giants HC.
He's a Defensive Head Coach who is committed to complementary football. That fits Gettleman's vision. He worked under Gettleman in Carolina, so they would work well together.
Not really sure if I’d be totally stoked with Rivera but what I think I know is a few things: he would be about 178 times better than Shurmur, he’s got championship level experience, he can lead a locker room, and he’s not a pussy. All that being said, he hasn’t exactly lit it up in Carolina. But he’s been fairly good and has got them contending for the division title nearly every single season.
1) Hard Knocks (I'm presuming the Giants win that honor) is going to be interesting.
2) It makes the return of OBJ to the Meadowlands VERY interesting. Perhaps the Giants can give away 25,000 bats as "souvenirs" that day, similar to Yankee Bat Day!
You feel like being a Giants fan is similar to someone handing you a million dollars in cash?
lol/. no my point is youre never happy...you consistently bitch and moan about every choice. i have never ONCE heard you say that was a smart move. you consistently never have ANYTHING positive to say.
You feel like being a Giants fan is similar to someone handing you a million dollars in cash?
lol/. no my point is youre never happy...you consistently bitch and moan about every choice. i have never ONCE heard you say that was a smart move. you consistently never have ANYTHING positive to say.
What is there that's positive to say about this team?
The Giants have been, objectively, one of the worst organizations in the NFL since 2013. That's not an opinion...it's a fact.
We both want the team to be better and compete, so we're not all that different in that way. The difference is that you are more willing to kid yourself into thinking things that will make you believe the Giants are doing well. I can't do that, I'm sorry. When I see a plane crash into a mountain, I don't tell myself the passengers are all OK.
If you want to retain Gettleman, you’ll love the idea of Rivera.
If you want to fire Gettleman, you’ll want no part of Rivera.
Or, stated differently, if you feel football operations are fundamentally broken in the Meadowlands, two guys from the current school of thinking don't portend change.
Exactly. Rivera's fine as a head coach, but simply replacing Shurmur isn't going to turn things around. Shurmur is a very poor coach, but he isn't the problem with this team.
can we have at 220 and counting post on the potential of Ron Rivera, an in season fired head coach, of Carolina, becoming the next coach of the Giants. This is how bad and desperate the Giants Fan base have become...so sad...
I'm down for hiring Rivera just to watch the meltdown some posters Â
can we have at 220 and counting post on the potential of Ron Rivera, an in season fired head coach, of Carolina, becoming the next coach of the Giants. This is how bad and desperate the Giants Fan base have become...so sad...
Some think he got a raw deal. If you believe Fatman and the buzz on Gettleman's surprise firing, Richardson is a more meddling owner that you believe Mara to be.
That said, good coaches meet bad ends. Happens all the time. A lot of guys didn't want a retread in Coughlin for the same reasons.
This is a guy that has been successful at every stop. He's 58. Lots of time to grow and evolve.
can we have at 220 and counting post on the potential of Ron Rivera, an in season fired head coach, of Carolina, becoming the next coach of the Giants. This is how bad and desperate the Giants Fan base have become...so sad...
Only on BBI can we have morons acting like Ron Rivera is a “failed” head coach.
Oh no, he was fired!
There is a long list of coaches even better than him that have been fired but I guess they’re failures too.
The problem with hiring Rivera is it means Gettleman is still here, and the archaic structure that's actually the problem remains.
The incompetence doesn't leave with Shurmur, and Rivera probably isn't good enough to overcome it either.
If we're hiring Rivera to come in and rebuild the organization as a CEO-type head coach, I'm all ears. He seems like a smart guy. If we're bringing him in to work with Gettleman in the same silo'd head coach/GM roles, then we'll be a little better than we are now but that's it.
can we have at 220 and counting post on the potential of Ron Rivera, an in season fired head coach, of Carolina, becoming the next coach of the Giants. This is how bad and desperate the Giants Fan base have become...so sad...
Some think he got a raw deal. If you believe Fatman and the buzz on Gettleman's surprise firing, Richardson is a more meddling owner that you believe Mara to be.
That said, good coaches meet bad ends. Happens all the time. A lot of guys didn't want a retread in Coughlin for the same reasons.
This is a guy that has been successful at every stop. He's 58. Lots of time to grow and evolve.
I agree and I understand.. I would not be opposed to the prospect of Rivera.. but holy shit... yes Shurmur is getting canned, he must.. but this calamity, in this thread proves just how bad the Giants have become... an absolute joke.. and deservedly right...
can we have at 220 and counting post on the potential of Ron Rivera, an in season fired head coach, of Carolina, becoming the next coach of the Giants. This is how bad and desperate the Giants Fan base have become...so sad...
Only on BBI can we have morons acting like Ron Rivera is a “failed” head coach.
Oh no, he was fired!
There is a long list of coaches even better than him that have been fired but I guess they’re failures too.
Cocksucker, point out where I said he was a failed head coach?
Rivera seems like he is getting canned because the new owner Â
wants to get his own guy in there. They've had issues at QB the last few years now with Cam's declining health. Him getting fired may be serendipitous for us.
a friend of mine is a die hard and he thionks rivera would be perfect for us obviously because of DG. he isnt "happy" today with the firing, but he understands the new owner wants a different guy.
he said he liked RR and felt a lot of what was going on was blamed on him but he thinks thats BS. he isnt an overly knowledgable fan, but he is realistic and feels winning with allen isnt an easy task. he posted on facebook about it and his friends who are also fans seemed pretty split on the firing. several did agree that it might have been a timing thing and thjat RR isnt at fault for this year. ALL of them on the post agreed norv has done a great job. my buddy feels we would be lucky to have both.
just figured id pass it along.
Rivera (with Norv Turner) would be a very good fit for the Giants. Â
I want to do a larger search, but Rivera would very much be among my leading candidates. 90% of the complaints I see here are from people who think anyone without a Super Bowl win isn't a good coach, hence the Jim Fassel nonsense on BBI.
2x AP Coach of the year
15-1 season and Superbowl appearance
3 Division Titles in 8 years
4 playoff appearances in 8 years.
Defensive Coordinator for an awesome Chicago Bears Defense and a Superbowl Appearance there.
Defensive Coordinator for the Chargers which was a good enough showing to get him a head coach job.
This guy has the credentials. And whether you love or hate Dave Gettleman, they've worked together, think highly of each other, and collaborated for a 15-1 Superbowl Campaign.
C'mon guys, this is a godsend right now. A touched by the hand of godsend if you will :)
It's like the football gods throwing us a bone, here.... Â
I’m arguing that it’s laughable there are people who don’t think Rivera is a really solid head coach worthy of consideration for other openings across the league.
RE: I've happen to watch a decent amount of Panther games over the years Â
I felt Cam Newton was both a catapult and handicap to Rivera. They essentially had to dumb down their entire scheme to mimic what Cam ran at Auburn. The problem with that is it doesn't allow for adapatability or many in-game adjustments, and relies heavily on winning 1-on-1 battles. If you don't have the talent on the field, it doesn't work.
That being said, the team's been a few plays away from being an over .500 team with a no-name rookie QB. Even with McCaffrey, that's still pretty impressive. Give him an elite OC, and QB that we believe Jones to be and he will do damage in a division that's been mediocre in comparison to what the NFC South has been over the past decade.
Is he better than Belichick? No. But he can definitely beat him, and that's what you need in today's NFL.
Rivera is 2-0 against Belichick winning in 2013 and 2017, home and then away.
RE: Rivera (with Norv Turner) would be a very good fit for the Giants. Â
I want to do a larger search, but Rivera would very much be among my leading candidates. 90% of the complaints I see here are from people who think anyone without a Super Bowl win isn't a good coach, hence the Jim Fassel nonsense on BBI.
Indeed. I'm on board for this.
I understand some of the reservations about Rivera Â
when we talk about being of the same school of thought as the GM, who some view as a negative. What I don't get are the blanket comments that suggestRivera is not a winning coach. He has a winning record, won 3 straight division titles, and went to a SB. He may not be your choice, but a loser he is not.
He took a lucrative package, a sinecure for his mid-life, and made UMich a kind of meh top 15 college competitor with all the jewels recruits could want.
Now, those who kiss his arse want to see him take another six or seven digit sinecure to re-create himself into the Giants' Saviour? No fuggin way
Same with Garrett, Jerrah's garbage who has lived off the talented careers of his OC and DC.
Exactly. Rivera's fine as a head coach, but simply replacing Shurmur isn't going to turn things around. Shurmur is a very poor coach, but he isn't the problem with this team.
The Giants must conduct a thorough analysis of the football operations. Inclusive of ownership input, general management, operations, strategy etc.
It takes virtually no acumen to know if you're on the verge of the 3rd coach in 4 years something more than coaching is wrong.
Rivera is a better coach than Shurmur, and the Giants will win more games if he's the coach. Rivera is not a good enough coach to beat what's rotten in the building.
Seriously, if the Giants don't make this move, then I'll think they're incompetent.
This is the move. Make it.
You believe the Giants should hire a head coach who was literally just fired, without doing a thorough evaluation of management and ownership's role in the current, deep mess the team is in?
I mean, you are pretty good at predicting the ridiculous things the Giants do, so I suspect you are right.
RE: I wonder if Dallas would be interested in Rivera Â
Dave Dameshek's most recent Athletic podcast includes an interview with a Dallas beat writer, and they discussed who could potentially replace Garrett. He seemed to think Jones will go for big air...even suggesting he should start by approaching Belichick. But beyond that he cited a couple interesting connections to college coaches...Lincoln Riley and Chris Peterson. Apparently Riley got to know Jones during recruiting for his grandson, a QB at Arkansas (Jones's alma mater). As for Peterson, Dallas has a recent history of drafting Boise State guys: Moore, Lawrence, Scandrick, Van Der Esch...there's a connection there.
This guy Lamar Jackson'd the league before Lamar was even a thing.
I don't know what that means.
If we hire Rivera does that mean Gettleman is gone and the front office will be restructured? Then yes, I'd love it.
If we hire Rivera to be the HC, Gettleman remains the GM, and nothing otherwise changes...then who cares? We're still a loser. Change is needed. REAL change. Not just swapping the nameplate on the head coach's door.
Pat Shurmur is not the reason the Giants suck. Accepting that is the first step on the road to recovery.
RE: RE: Terps, I'm surprised you don't love this move.... Â
This guy Lamar Jackson'd the league before Lamar was even a thing.
I don't know what that means.
If we hire Rivera does that mean Gettleman is gone and the front office will be restructured? Then yes, I'd love it.
If we hire Rivera to be the HC, Gettleman remains the GM, and nothing otherwise changes...then who cares? We're still a loser. Change is needed. REAL change. Not just swapping the nameplate on the head coach's door.
Pat Shurmur is not the reason the Giants suck. Accepting that is the first step on the road to recovery.
Terps, you are one of my favorite posters and I agree with you most of the time..but wow.. Shurmur is not the reason why the Giants suck? He is dreadful... just at look at the Baldy post RE: the OLine not knowing WTF they are supposed to do...He was a center in college.. He is the HC..responsible for all things... I mean come on .. he might not be the only reason but we with decent HC would be better than a 2 win team.
You could replace Shurmur with Rivera and we'd still be a bad team. Less bad, maybe...but still bad.
You're right...Shurmur has been absolutely awful. A disaster. But why does the buck stop with him? Gettleman has been equally bad. The 2018 draft class is flopping, the FA signings have busted, and the general resource management wouldn't pass muster in Madden on Rookie level.
But Gettleman isn't the reason either. The reason we suck is that ownership is married to an antiquated way of doing business, and that results in the hiring of incompetent people like Shurmur and Gettleman into important positions.
This problem is way bigger than anything Ron Rivera can fix.
RE: Wait, he doesn't know how to win in today's NFL? Â
You could replace Shurmur with Rivera and we'd still be a bad team. Less bad, maybe...but still bad.
You're right...Shurmur has been absolutely awful. A disaster. But why does the buck stop with him? Gettleman has been equally bad. The 2018 draft class is flopping, the FA signings have busted, and the general resource management wouldn't pass muster in Madden on Rookie level.
But Gettleman isn't the reason either. The reason we suck is that ownership is married to an antiquated way of doing business, and that results in the hiring of incompetent people like Shurmur and Gettleman into important positions.
This problem is way bigger than anything Ron Rivera can fix.
baby steps dude.
rivera helps fix the defense and norv getting more out of barkley....those sound like two nice early fixes to me....
RE: RE: Wait, he doesn't know how to win in today's NFL? Â
He was 15-1 and in the Superbowl a couple years ago? WTF?
And if that was all Cam Newton, which is undoubtedly the next response, why isn't Cam Newton doing that every year?
3 winning seasons, but keep looking at the outlier.
Rivera isn’t winning a title in today’s NFL.
Well that isn’t fair. He got a highly flawed QB in Newton to an MVP and Super Bowl and then injuries set in. Cam sucks, he got about as much out of him as anyone could.
He was 15-1 and in the Superbowl a couple years ago? WTF?
And if that was all Cam Newton, which is undoubtedly the next response, why isn't Cam Newton doing that every year?
3 winning seasons, but keep looking at the outlier.
Rivera isn’t winning a title in today’s NFL.
LMFAO/ i love wen people talk in absolutes! the dude almsot won a super bowl not long ago. you act like he is a fucking dinosaur. the game of football hasnt "changed" that much....
is responsible for the coaching staff. Hal Hunter is trash. Maybe that's the best Shurmur could lure here, but that's on him. A good HC gets good OC, DC and assistants which Shurmur cannot do
"We are going to take a comprehensive and thorough review of our football operation to make sure we are structured for long-term sustained success," Tepper said.
This is what needs to happen after the season for the Giants. Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Wait, he doesn't know how to win in today's NFL? Â
He was 15-1 and in the Superbowl a couple years ago? WTF?
And if that was all Cam Newton, which is undoubtedly the next response, why isn't Cam Newton doing that every year?
3 winning seasons, but keep looking at the outlier.
Rivera isn’t winning a title in today’s NFL.
He's been to the playoffs 4 out of the last 6 seasons! Including a 15-1 Superbowl campaign! He also won AP Coach of the year 2x during that span. You're off the deep end, dude.
"We are going to take a comprehensive and thorough review of our football operation to make sure we are structured for long-term sustained success," Tepper said.
This is what needs to happen after the season for the Giants. Link - ( New Window )
These are words that literally will never be spoken by a Giant owner.
He sucks now. There was a time where his wheels and physicality was good enough (great for a while, in fact) to overcome his shitty throwing but that’s no more.
I really need to explain that?
As for Rivera, he’d be a good hire if the FO isn’t getting rid of Gettelman. I’m all in on fully cleaning house but I’m not going to harp on it thread after thread. I’ll live with whatever happens.
You said it as if he had to overcome Cam Newton for years and years Â
That Tepper quote captures exactly what is needed here, in one sentence.
You guys want to know what's needed? It's right there. Not Ron Rivera.
GT- you can't selectively praise one quote to prop up your argument when the fundamental flaw as you see it is ownership involved in football decisions. The man you are praising also wants to to put his stamp on the football side of things. What makes him qualified as an owner to make football decisions?
Quote:
I just thought it was time given the way things have gone the last two seasons to put my stamp on this organization on the football side as we’ve done on the business side of the organization. I think as much respect as I have for Ron, I think a change was appropriate to build things the way I want things to be built.
Naa, that’s just your interpretation. He was great for a few years, despite his pretty glaring flaws. And wen they went 15-1 they had a great defense, something a previous poster was chalking up to an outlier.
You’re the one whose posting all of his accomplishments.
Like I said Rivera is a guy who keeps you in purgatory. Right around 7-9/9-7 with the outlier great season. That’s not what the Giants need, they need to hit this one out of the park
You feel like being a Giants fan is similar to someone handing you a million dollars in cash?
lol/. no my point is youre never happy...you consistently bitch and moan about every choice. i have never ONCE heard you say that was a smart move. you consistently never have ANYTHING positive to say.
What is there that's positive to say about this team?
The Giants have been, objectively, one of the worst organizations in the NFL since 2013. That's not an opinion...it's a fact.
We both want the team to be better and compete, so we're not all that different in that way. The difference is that you are more willing to kid yourself into thinking things that will make you believe the Giants are doing well. I can't do that, I'm sorry. When I see a plane crash into a mountain, I don't tell myself the passengers are all OK.
Yes he “made” playoffs 4 times but Once was with losing record.
He did go 15-1 and make the Super Bowl. But he also had a massively stacked team with 10 Pro Bowlers, and an NFL MVP QB and was unable to muster sustained winning.
He lost the SB big (24-10) as the 5.5 favorite, Blown at home (23-10) by San Fran as favorites. Got down big (24-9) to NO in a playoff game as a 12 win team and got blown out by Seattle (down 31-10) as well at home. Some of the final scores look a bit better due to late TDs.
And now has a losing year 3 out of 4 seasons.
I don’t see this as a slam dunk candidate at all.
The Giants ''need to hit this one out of the park'' Â
have a different winner each year for like a decade that ended when Carolina won 3 straight? A HoF QB in Brees with Sean Peyton was part of that stretch.
I think some of you need some perspective on what good coaching is. Rivera isn't Belichick but he's been an above average head coach in this league.
I'm not advocating for or against him in the Giants scenario, but some of these posts are flat wrong.
I think Carolina has been in the same boat we've been the past few years. They paid Cam and were stuck with him and tried making it work. His injury this year was a blessing and are likely moving on. Not they get to clean house and start over without him.
"Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." Â
You could do worse than Rivera. I don't think he's a bad coach, but he's not going to knock your socks off either. In short, you could do worse. But you could do better too.
because to me it's a league where coaching still makes a huge difference. Now I know he got the nickname riverboat Ron for going it on fourth down, so this is an interesting comment:
Quote:
Tepper will use a search committee to find the next coach. He didn't totally rule out a college coach, but he appears focused on a young, offensive-minded NFL coordinator who is willing to use analytics in a way Rivera never would.
This also does not inspire confidence:
Quote:
Rivera ended his nine-year tenure with a 76-63-1 regular-season record and a 3-4 postseason mark. Despite an NFL-best 15-1 2015 season and trip to the Super Bowl, he finished with only three winning seasons.
This sounds exactly like the Giants from 2012-2015 under Coughlin.
You read that article, and the owner just shits on a couple of often repeated fallacies on BBI.
1) Gettleman has to go up there and say he's trying to win now, what else is he going to say.
Quote:
"If people believe or fans believe that I'm going to hire the messiah in here and bring you to the promised land in one year, I got a few guys they should meet,'' Tepper said. "They can meet the Tooth Fairy, they can meet Santa Claus, I got a bridge in Brooklyn."
2) What's the point of addressing the fans mid-season, it's just a way for the fans and media to get a pound of flesh.
Quote:
"We will consider a wide range of football executives to complement our current football staff. We all must recognize that this is the first step in a process, but we are committed to building and maintaining a championship culture for our team and our fans."
"We are going to take a comprehensive and thorough review of our football operation to make sure we are structured for long-term sustained success," Tepper said.
This is what needs to happen after the season for the Giants. Link - ( New Window )
Maybe Tepper helped us out here - because a team coming off a better record of late just fired their coach and is going to do this evaluation, meanwhile Mara has plans to just leave the status quo in the FO and bring in Rivera.
Rivera is certainly an upgrade over Shurmur - but if they hire him without any sort of due diligence - real due diligence, not just Accorsi swinging by to tell a couple of Bert Jones stories followed by a thumbs-up - then nobody should be surprised when the shit football continues.
He would be a good hire. Not the sexiest pick but the safest pick with good upside. The Giants need a coach with a high floor given the results with the last two options. This is a pivotal off-season for the foreseeable future of the team.
Some posters have cried for a GM and coach “tied at the hip.” Well here you go. These guys have experience working together and align philosophically.
Rivera is a defensive HC — what this team needs. He has experience winning in this league. He has the best resume of any retreads likely on the market, with less talent.
The Giants tried the hot coordinator route with terrible results. Rolling the dice on Rhule cutting his teeth in the pros is too risky. Saleh is a gamble. Roman runs a Cracker Jack offense that requires a QB who runs a 4.4.
I’d be perfectly fine with Rivera as the next HC. I think he can be even better liberated from limited QBs running his team.
Who knows what would have happened if Eli wasn’t forced on them.
Congratulations, AJ. With post 292, you are the first to smear Eli and imply the team is a winner hamstrung by him being on the roster. For your implication to have merit, it would help if OBJ and the rest of the receivers could catch the darts was throwing in the only game that mattered. I presume you are loving the "winning" that is happening this season with Eli as a spectator.
Yes he “made” playoffs 4 times but Once was with losing record.
He did go 15-1 and make the Super Bowl. But he also had a massively stacked team with 10 Pro Bowlers, and an NFL MVP QB and was unable to muster sustained winning.
He lost the SB big (24-10) as the 5.5 favorite, Blown at home (23-10) by San Fran as favorites. Got down big (24-9) to NO in a playoff game as a 12 win team and got blown out by Seattle (down 31-10) as well at home. Some of the final scores look a bit better due to late TDs.
And now has a losing year 3 out of 4 seasons.
I don’t see this as a slam dunk candidate at all.
Nice summary here. The 3 of 9 winning seasons is a red flag.
What exactly is he good at as a HC? He’s supposedly a good defensive mind but the Panthers have largely been bottom half of the league in PPG during his tenure.
RE: RE: The Giants went the hot coordinator route Â
Who knows what would have happened if Eli wasn’t forced on them.
Congratulations, AJ. With post 292, you are the first to smear Eli and imply the team is a winner hamstrung by him being on the roster. For your implication to have merit, it would help if OBJ and the rest of the receivers could catch the darts was throwing in the only game that mattered. I presume you are loving the "winning" that is happening this season with Eli as a spectator.
I mean if you don’t think this team would be in a better situation had they started to rebuild sooner instead of trying to win with a declining Eli then I don’t know what to tell you.
The offense was bad in 2016, all the signs were there. There are reports, granted can’t be taken fully at face value, that Mcadoo wanted to trade up for Mahomes. So yes, who knows how different 2019 goes for the Giants if Eli wasn’t forced on them in 2017 and 2018, and if Mara didn’t cave to the benching backlash.
For all of McAdoos faults - and there were a lot - he was right about needing to move on from Eli.
The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
Nothing against him, but he isn't fixing this team's issues.
Per FMiC, Rivera and DG worked well together.
Does that change your mind? ;)
This is one of the many ways BBI has devolved. Posting a statement that isn't disputed around Carolina now gets one mocked here. A simple one-line statement that DG and Rivera worked well together.
Your misery is fucking awesome for the rest of us...
The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
Good for you, AJ. You keep being you. Just realize that a thread that had nothing to do with Eli, everyone managed to resist dragging him into the thread. 6 pages and 292 posts before you couldn't help yourself. There are certain posters that are predictable. I guess I'm just surprised that it wasn't Junior22.
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
Chris -- you should do a little reading on Rivera. He's on the record advocating for less technology in the game. He proudly advocates for an old school approach. He's literally getting fired because the new ownership wants a more modern approach to the game.
That doesn't mean wild, unorthodox play calls or schemes. It means value oriented roster construction, more technology on the practice field, more technology and analysis on the sidelines, and fewer mistakes by letting data make the easy calls.
The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
Good for you, AJ. You keep being you. Just realize that a thread that had nothing to do with Eli, everyone managed to resist dragging him into the thread. 6 pages and 292 posts before you couldn't help yourself. There are certain posters that are predictable. I guess I'm just surprised that it wasn't Junior22.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
The truth is that McAdoo was an offensive coordinator/HC Â
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
RE: The truth is that McAdoo was an offensive coordinator/HC Â
Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
McAdoo and Shurmur were never was.
A lot of people though Gruden would be a has been and are now praising what is happening in Oakland.
I'm tired of fooling around with coordinators. Give me a real head coach in here again.
I won't be praising Gruden too much. The Raiders lost 34-3 and 40-9 the last 2 weeks and haven't beat a team with a winning record since 2018.
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
So Rivera is a dinosaur yet his team played in a Super Bowl 4 years ago? Went to the playoffs 2 years ago and one of his long-time assistants is doing awesome in Buffalo where they lost forever.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Or you could point out that McAdoo's scheme was hot garbage. Complete vanilla that even Mahomes TODAY would struggle with. They made the playoffs in 2016 because the defense played out of its mind.
Meanwhile, your "hot coordinator" couldn't manage an offense to score more than 20 points in 19 of the 29 games he coached, something Shurmur did (with Eli as his QB, no less) in 7 of the last 8 games last year.
Maybe McAddo was early on realizing that Eli was losing his fastball, but Mac never realized that he never had one.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
That's ridiculous. This is the same nonsense bandied about with regards to fixing culture, signing Solder to stabilize the line, signing washed up vets to stabilize the locker room, hiring an adult in Shurmur, hiring a GM who understands the Giants Way.
The Giants need to hire a head coach and general manager who have the intelligence, experience, and self awareness to compete in a rapidly more analytical and technology driven game.
The goal isn't stable. It's to win a fucking championship.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
That's ridiculous. This is the same nonsense bandied about with regards to fixing culture, signing Solder to stabilize the line, signing washed up vets to stabilize the locker room, hiring an adult in Shurmur, hiring a GM who understands the Giants Way.
The Giants need to hire a head coach and general manager who have the intelligence, experience, and self awareness to compete in a rapidly more analytical and technology driven game.
The goal isn't stable. It's to win a fucking championship.
No, it's reality. What's nonsense, or a better phrase would be "much longer odds of happening, is that some unproven guy is going to come up and change the entire way of doing business successfully.
For every Sean McVay there are 100 Chip Kelly's. Even Doug Pederson's magic appeal is wearing off already. Who's the guy that was supposed to be next in Chicago? Nagy? He was the next big thing too.
No, you need to be STABLE before you win championships. You need a solid core to build upon.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Or you could point out that McAdoo's scheme was hot garbage. Complete vanilla that even Mahomes TODAY would struggle with. They made the playoffs in 2016 because the defense played out of its mind.
Meanwhile, your "hot coordinator" couldn't manage an offense to score more than 20 points in 19 of the 29 games he coached, something Shurmur did (with Eli as his QB, no less) in 7 of the last 8 games last year.
Maybe McAddo was early on realizing that Eli was losing his fastball, but Mac never realized that he never had one.
Nobody said McAdoo wasn’t flawed. But we shouldn’t avoid the hot coordinator because one with a handicapped roster failed.
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
So Rivera is a dinosaur yet his team played in a Super Bowl 4 years ago? Went to the playoffs 2 years ago and one of his long-time assistants is doing awesome in Buffalo where they lost forever.
Ok.
No one is saying that embracing analytics is required to win or that you can't win in spite of a disregard for the value of analytics. But they do have a very real value and several teams are using analytics in some form or fashion to an extent that appears - from an outsider's vantage point - to exceed the level to which the Giants use them.
If used properly, they can provide a competitive edge. If used adequately, they can help teams keep up with the pack. If ignored entirely, it's not a death knell but it is an unnecessary willingness to invite a disadvantage into the equation.
Analytics, at its core, is just data. Which is just information. Why anyone feels like it's a smart move to have a front office - and potentially coaching staff - that is in any way reluctant to use additional information (and trust it) is beyond me.
Why the fuck would any fan encourage their team to knowingly use less information than their competition?
And for the record, I'm not the one calling him a dinosaur - I'm merely repeating what the rumors are surrounding his termination. The team wants to go with a coach with a more modern approach and willingness to embrace analytics. If that doesn't read to you that THEY feel like Rivera has some antiquated elements in his approach and an unwillingness to utilize data, I don't know what to tell you.
the problem with “analytics”, a “sophisticated” word for statistics, Â
is applying the population generated # to the specific situation of the moment. Sure “probabilities” help, but something, someone, has to be able to decide what applies in a specific situation, at a specific moment of time. So statistical data is helpful but it requires an intelligent experienced human being to apply it. That’s why you won’t have a computer as your physician or football coach.
And yes, Rivera is a much better HC than Shurmur. I would look long and hard at Rivera.
He should get another HC job. He won't settle for DC nor should he. 76-63-1 record.
Bwahahahaha. I mean he has experience as an interim HC, but bwahahahahaha
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please hire him to at least run the D
He should get another HC job. He won't settle for DC nor should he. 76-63-1 record.
Completely agree but he knows how to build a D is my point
I think Cam Newton playing at an MVP level really made Rivera. I hope he's not a candidate to come to NY just because he has some tie to Gettleman (who should in no way be the GM of this team going forward).
I think Cam Newton playing at an MVP level really made Rivera. I hope he's not a candidate to come to NY just because he has some tie to Gettleman (who should in no way be the GM of this team going forward).
Agreed on all points.
"The decision was made, and that's what we're going to do," Rivera said. "The biggest thing is Dave did a great job for us. He helped me to grow as a coach, he helped to put the final pieces of the puzzle together and he helped us get to the Super Bowl."
"No matter how tense things got, we always talked our way through it," Rivera told Fowler. "I talked to Dave [on Monday] because I wanted to make sure he knew I appreciated everything he did for me."
Ron Rivera 'surprised' Panthers fired Dave Gettleman - ( New Window )
Outside of that one fluke 15-1 season when Newton was MVP, Rivera is a sub-.500 coach
More on topic, color me skeptical that Rivera is the guy to turn this thing around.
Outside of that one fluke 15-1 season when Newton was MVP, Rivera is a sub-.500 coach
This....uuugghhh I have a feeling Gettleman stays so he can pick Rivera.
I wonder if the GM is at risk as well.
As I have said in a past thread weeks ago, I want Ruhle as HC with or without a new GM.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
McAdoo and Shurmur were never was.
A lot of people though Gruden would be a has been and are now praising what is happening in Oakland.
I'm tired of fooling around with coordinators. Give me a real head coach in here again.
Yes, Rivera is by default upgrade over Shurmur, but that doesn't solve the bigger problem with Gettleman. And the possibility of getting a coach who could work with a better GM.
What are you, a troll or a comedian or both?
Maybe it is just me with some bad lip reading, but is DG saying "My balls itch" ?
I wonder if the GM is at risk as well.
As I have said in a past thread weeks ago, I want Ruhle as HC with or without a new GM.
dude he is playing with a rookie QB, i dont think people here understand what that does to a team....most Rookie QBs struggle
That would be an exciting combination. I'd love to see what Norv could do with Jones.
I'm not saying he's a no-brainer, but I would absolutely do my due diligence on him.
I'm not saying he's a no-brainer, but I would absolutely do my due diligence on him.
Only on BBI.
Norv couldn't get it done with McCaffery and the backup, Allen. I am not convinced he is as good as his reputation.
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heck ya !
That would be an exciting combination. I'd love to see what Norv could do with Jones.
And Barkely, like CMC is used now
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heck ya !
Norv couldn't get it done with McCaffery and the backup, Allen. I am not convinced he is as good as his reputation.
CMC is DOMINATING the NFL. if they had a QB with experience they would be VERY good....it happens. barkl;ey would be utilized
Outside of that one fluke 15-1 season when Newton was MVP, Rivera is a sub-.500 coach
Exactly.
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heck ya !
Norv couldn't get it done with McCaffery and the backup, Allen. I am not convinced he is as good as his reputation.
CMC is leading league in yards from scrimmage, by a lot
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In comment 14701471 uther99 said:
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heck ya !
Norv couldn't get it done with McCaffery and the backup, Allen. I am not convinced he is as good as his reputation.
CMC is DOMINATING the NFL. if they had a QB with experience they would be VERY good....it happens. barkl;ey would be utilized
Oh I see now. 14 carries for 44 yards against the Redskins. Just what the Giants need for the underperforming Barkley.
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In comment 14701479 DeepBlueJint said:
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In comment 14701471 uther99 said:
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heck ya !
Norv couldn't get it done with McCaffery and the backup, Allen. I am not convinced he is as good as his reputation.
CMC is DOMINATING the NFL. if they had a QB with experience they would be VERY good....it happens. barkl;ey would be utilized
Oh I see now. 14 carries for 44 yards against the Redskins. Just what the Giants need for the underperforming Barkley.
bad games happen. this isnt fucking madden. CMC leads the league in yards from scrimmage...how does that not prove norv uses him correctly? norv would be great for barkley
Ron Rivera is a good and decent human being, who is an above-average NFL coach. There have actually been times I’ve thought his goodness and decentness held him back (i.e. keeping Mike Shula around for too long).
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Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
McAdoo and Shurmur were never was.
A lot of people though Gruden would be a has been and are now praising what is happening in Oakland.
I'm tired of fooling around with coordinators. Give me a real head coach in here again.
Point taken.. but if you can’t muster a win against the Washington Redskins this year, your not the answer.. It’s probably the reason he got fired before the actual season ended...
DG didn't hire Rivera, but he also didn't fire him. Seems like there was always an equal respect for each other to do their job.
Ron is my choice as I think DG will survive any purge. Knowing that he can work with DG and he is a defensive minded coach is a plus. If Ron can drag Norv along to do what he has done with CMC what should be done with Barkley, all the better.
SIGN ME UP!!!!!
Shurmur is Pussy Pat
Cam Newton has horribly regressed, so theres that
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In comment 14701457 prdave73 said:
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Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
McAdoo and Shurmur were never was.
A lot of people though Gruden would be a has been and are now praising what is happening in Oakland.
I'm tired of fooling around with coordinators. Give me a real head coach in here again.
Point taken.. but if you can’t muster a win against the Washington Redskins this year, your not the answer.. It’s probably the reason he got fired before the actual season ended...
The Eagles just got beat by Miami. Sh-t happens, any given Sunday.
Fewell was named interim HC for Panthers, whoa buddy
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In comment 14701481 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 14701479 DeepBlueJint said:
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In comment 14701471 uther99 said:
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heck ya !
Norv couldn't get it done with McCaffery and the backup, Allen. I am not convinced he is as good as his reputation.
CMC is DOMINATING the NFL. if they had a QB with experience they would be VERY good....it happens. barkl;ey would be utilized
Oh I see now. 14 carries for 44 yards against the Redskins. Just what the Giants need for the underperforming Barkley.
bad games happen. this isnt fucking madden. CMC leads the league in yards from scrimmage...how does that not prove norv uses him correctly? norv would be great for barkley
And what were Barkley's numbers last year? Regardless of the HC and OC, both of these RBs are outstanding. Panthers are 5-7. What were the Giants last year when Barkley had such great numbers?
That being said, the team's been a few plays away from being an over .500 team with a no-name rookie QB. Even with McCaffrey, that's still pretty impressive. Give him an elite OC, and QB that we believe Jones to be and he will do damage in a division that's been mediocre in comparison to what the NFC South has been over the past decade.
Is he better than Belichick? No. But he can definitely beat him, and that's what you need in today's NFL.
This is a match meant to be.
Just an FYI - they won one of those division titles with a scintillating 7-8-1 record.
SIGN ME UP!!!!!
Remind me, who's their QB?
Win % as a HC .546% (Shurmur is .279%)
Do it today.
Shula and Bettcher have to go too.
And what, pray tell, do you base that comment on?
is a game-changer.
The guy who is going to transform your franchise & bring a winning culture (Bill Parcells the most obvious example who did it with multiple teams), but they simply do not grow on trees. Obviously.
Then there's the "hot coordinator" route. It can work (McVay, Payton) but there are way, way more examples of miserable failures (a million to enumerate, but McAdoo and Spags are two Giants fans know well).
So the arguable next best option is to select a high floor/stabilizing type guy. Not sexy, but your Grudens, McCarthy, Jim Schwartz, Fox, and yes Ron Riviera. The relative expanses of their ceiling are uncertain, but you know they at least "belong" in the NFL holding a clipboard which is more than one can say for the 2019 NYG coaching staff.
The Giants are in such catastrophically bad shape, such a rudderless dumpster fire of a franchise, that there is a strong argument to be made that a fundamental stabilization should be paramount. When a plane is nose-diving, you avert catastrophe before worrying about climbing once more.
I don't see easy answers. This is way, way worse than Fassel to Coughlin. But those seemingly exasperated at every HC suggestion would do well to remember that once Shurmur is gone (and dear God he should be), a choice actually does need to get made. And someone out there is, if not ideal, still the least bad option. It may very well be a boring "stabilizer" type.
Do we trust Jones to make those throws?
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Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
That being said, the team's been a few plays away from being an over .500 team with a no-name rookie QB. Even with McCaffrey, that's still pretty impressive. Give him an elite OC, and QB that we believe Jones to be and he will do damage in a division that's been mediocre in comparison to what the NFC South has been over the past decade.
Is he better than Belichick? No. But he can definitely beat him, and that's what you need in today's NFL.
To follow your logic, does it suggest that Rivera and Turner would apply what they did with the Panthers and feature/ emphasize Barkley with a 1 on 1 matchup goal? Hey, the Panthers have/had Newton and McCaffery and the Giants have Jones and Barkley. Seems the same, n'est ce pas?
Absolutely. He'll win a few more games than Shurmur and the team most likely will remain mired in 6-10/7-9 mediocrity for a while.
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Three division titles, a Super Bowl appearance and a 15-1 record is underachieving?
Just an FYI - they won one of those division titles with a scintillating 7-8-1 record.
Bazinga!
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vibe here...and wouldn't be shocked to see it happen and they bring Rivera in.
Absolutely. He'll win a few more games than Shurmur and the team most likely will remain mired in 6-10/7-9 mediocrity for a while.
.
At least Perry Fewell's defense won a Super Bowl
Do we trust Jones to make those throws?
bro...oi swear youre a fan of a different team....
what makes you think jones isnt capable? you just LOVE being fucking negative. seriously, how does anyone tolerate you in real life
what makes you think jones isnt capable? you just LOVE being fucking negative. seriously, how does anyone tolerate you in real life
Goddammit, bw, PICK UP THOSE POM-POMS!!!!
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bro...oi swear youre a fan of a different team....
what makes you think jones isnt capable? you just LOVE being fucking negative. seriously, how does anyone tolerate you in real life
Goddammit, bw, PICK UP THOSE POM-POMS!!!!
greg, i understand you are also a miserable piece of shit always, but can you let him answer as to why he is also always negative
No one is claiming Rivera is an elite HC. What he is is a very good HC who is 13 games above .500. That warrants a good look see. I'm not saying we should hire him today, but he should warrant consideration. Abso-fucking-lutely. We could do a whole lot worse.
I bet a lot of you would be saying the same damn thing if Andy Reid shook loose. "He never won a Super Bowl!" "He would be shit without an MVP like Mahomes!"
No one is claiming Rivera is an elite HC. What he is is a very good HC who is 13 games above .500. That warrants a good look see. I'm not saying we should hire him today, but he should warrant consideration. Abso-fucking-lutely. We could do a whole lot worse.
I bet a lot of you would be saying the same damn thing if Andy Reid shook loose. "He never won a Super Bowl!" "He would be shit without an MVP like Mahomes!"
i agree
Does this mean when the Giants take that L to Washington on December 22, the next day Shurmur will be given his papers?
Probably not since it will be 2 days before Christmas.
In that case, give Shurmur his papers after the L to Miami.
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In comment 14701476 Anakim said:
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Three division titles, a Super Bowl appearance and a 15-1 record is underachieving?
Just an FYI - they won one of those division titles with a scintillating 7-8-1 record.
Bazinga!
That might win the NFC East at this point.
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bro...oi swear youre a fan of a different team....
what makes you think jones isnt capable? you just LOVE being fucking negative. seriously, how does anyone tolerate you in real life
Goddammit, bw, PICK UP THOSE POM-POMS!!!!
Hey Troll from LI, why dont you tell us how you really feel about Ron Rivera, for the seventh time on this thread. And, just in case you don't approve, do you have a different solution? Just a warning, I wouldn't support you as HC, in case you were going to suggest that...
No one is claiming Rivera is an elite HC. What he is is a very good HC who is 13 games above .500. That warrants a good look see. I'm not saying we should hire him today, but he should warrant consideration. Abso-fucking-lutely. We could do a whole lot worse.
I bet a lot of you would be saying the same damn thing if Andy Reid shook loose. "He never won a Super Bowl!" "He would be shit without an MVP like Mahomes!"
I agree with this.
And I'd include Garrett in this discussion. He has his warts but people talk about him like he's Richie Kotite. He's had a damn good run in Dallas. I would take very seriously the candidacy of both of these guys.
Well, since you asked so nicely, I think Ron Rivera is a mediocre coach who rode an incredible Cam Newton season to a 15-1 record that distorts his actual track record.
BTW, sparky, since you're a 2018 registrant, you might want to rethink calling anyone else a troll.
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is the Ernie Zampese offense. Which requires a lot of timing throws outside the hashes. And of the longer, intermediate variety...
Do we trust Jones to make those throws?
bro...oi swear youre a fan of a different team....
what makes you think jones isnt capable? you just LOVE being fucking negative. seriously, how does anyone tolerate you in real life
How is that negative? It's a possible issue.
Those type of throws aren't really Jones's strength. Those long outs which require zip and really good timing.
Thus far, Jones seems better suited for throws between the hashes, short timing routes, and go routes where he can put air under the ball.
Now, assuming all of this worked out and Norv was part of the package, maybe Turner makes adjustments and it's less of an issue. But traditionally that type of throw has been part of Turner's playbook.
BTW, still waiting on that different solution part.
That left Dan Reeves, with a fairly impressive resume, with the noticeable faux pas of getting blown out in Super Bowls with John Elway. But with him looking for a job, the Giants looking for a coach, they were both kind of standing around eyeing each other, until Frank Gifford played match maker. It was fun for 1993 when Reeves won the Coach of the Year and was a Mark Jackson drop from home field advantage in the playoffs.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the Giants will reach out to some higher profile candidates- Harbaugh, Rhule, etc. But at the end, they will look over at Rivera, who Gettleman knows and his teams have been generally competitive and for a stretch flirted with a perfect season in 2015.
I do like the idea of getting a defensive guy in here, something which hasn't happened since Parcells.
I want the Giants to explore all options, but as I said above, I see the Reeves/ Rivera parallel. Right down to giving up on a coach we all know can't do the job after 2 years (Ray Handley).
Don't 99% of coaches fail at their last job? Isn't that why it's their last job?
Fun fact - the Panthers have NEVER had back-to-back winning seasons. Even Rivera couldn't do it with Cam.
I'm torn on him, but he does seem to have strengths right now in places we have weaknesses. He's an excellent defensive mind. He's been good at developing talent and developing coaches. And bringing in Norv elevated CMC's game. We could use a boost on D and in utilizing Saquon.
I don't often support bold moves, but I'd fire Shurmur and hire Rivera now.
BTW, still waiting on that different solution part.
Different solution? Greg Roman, Kris Richard, David Saleh....hell, Matt Rhule wouldn't be my choice but I'd rather roll the dice on him than go the predictably mediocre route and have Mr. Magoo bring in his coach from Carolina.
Fun fact - the Panthers have NEVER had back-to-back winning seasons. Even Rivera couldn't do it with Cam.
I'm torn on him, but he does seem to have strengths right now in places we have weaknesses. He's an excellent defensive mind. He's been good at developing talent and developing coaches. And bringing in Norv elevated CMC's game. We could use a boost on D and in utilizing Saquon.
I don't often support bold moves, but I'd fire Shurmur and hire Rivera now.
Me too.
Rivera isn't going to do that.
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and Gettleman worked very well together. They actually have a very similar personality, which I'm sure is just something a lot of you are looking to latch onto as a negative.
Fun fact - the Panthers have NEVER had back-to-back winning seasons. Even Rivera couldn't do it with Cam.
I'm torn on him, but he does seem to have strengths right now in places we have weaknesses. He's an excellent defensive mind. He's been good at developing talent and developing coaches. And bringing in Norv elevated CMC's game. We could use a boost on D and in utilizing Saquon.
I don't often support bold moves, but I'd fire Shurmur and hire Rivera now.
Me too.
NOOO we need to lose out....
I'll ask nicer than that guy, but I'm curious about this myself, Greg. Who do you want as the next HC of the Giants?
I mean, aside from Frank Beamer :)
They "worked very well together..."
Gee, who would have guessed...
Well, in that case, what the Giants will lack in talent, they'll make up for with arrogance.
They "worked very well together..."
Gee, who would have guessed...
You are also looking at a guy who hates the Panthers, yet still respected Rivera.
Unlike the guy who once spoke of Snyder glowingly....
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at a surprise appearance form the leader of the DGFC and his call to hire Rivera.
They "worked very well together..."
Gee, who would have guessed...
You are also looking at a guy who hates the Panthers, yet still respected Rivera.
Unlike the guy who once spoke of Snyder glowingly....
bw and greg hate everything. im surprised they are able to find any joy in their daily lives
I hate the sonofabitch, but if they wanted to bring in Bud Foster as DC I could live with it. Beamer's entire career was made possible by Foster's defenses.
That was just shooting the shit, BTW. The reason Foster is retiring is due to serious health issues, and he's got more skeletons in his closet than Jeffrey Dahmer, which is why he never got a head coaching offer - a big no-no for Giants' coaches.
Fun fact - the Panthers have NEVER had back-to-back winning seasons. Even Rivera couldn't do it with Cam.
I'm torn on him, but he does seem to have strengths right now in places we have weaknesses. He's an excellent defensive mind. He's been good at developing talent and developing coaches. And bringing in Norv elevated CMC's game. We could use a boost on D and in utilizing Saquon.
I don't often support bold moves, but I'd fire Shurmur and hire Rivera now.
I have a hard time calling a 9 year stint as HC with a plus .500 career record, SB appearance, and 2x AP Coach of the year award a "failed head coach".
Some of you are out of your minds.
Other than the 2 time coach of the year part, you just described Jim Fassel. Ol' Jimmy only won that once.
its not about finding joy in a 2-10 team. its are you ever happy with ANY move. you say kris richard....if we took him and he sucked, you would probably say jesus mara never makes a good move. you ALWAYS find something to bitch about. ALWAYS. fact is rivera is strong where we are weak, it wouldnt be a horrible hire. we could do worse (shurmur and mcadoo)
Then we get Gettleman, and you'd swear that franchise is like the Browns or something. I used to have to provide the counter-point that the Panthers weren't so great and would often get shit for it. Yet many of those same posters soured on Carolina in one instant - hiring Gettleman. Short memories.
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6-10, 11-5, 7-9, 5-7. Never had back-to-back winning seasons in Carolina despite being the coach their for 9 full years.
I think Cam Newton playing at an MVP level really made Rivera. I hope he's not a candidate to come to NY just because he has some tie to Gettleman (who should in no way be the GM of this team going forward).
Agreed on all points.
Tend to agree. I wouldn't hate Rivera, but he's not my first choice, and I'm concerned that he'd get more consideration than is warranted because of his connection to DG.
NEW YORK GIANTS FOOTBALL: IT COULD BE WORSE
Come at me bro.
Rivera is 'fine' to me. Low floor. He'd be fine, but uninspiring.
Rivera isn't going to do that.
Fatman,
Fair point on the specifics as to why Reeves was fired. I was more going along the lines that the Giants went for a guy in Reeves with a solid NFL resume after both sides realized they needed each other (for a while at least)
I do agree with you that on the surface, Rivera could be the hire the Giants hoped to get out of Reeves, until Reeves sunk himself for clashing with Young even though he agreed to work under that system as a condition of taking the job.
Rivera shouldn't have the same issue because he worked well with Gettleman before, and I defer to your specific knowledge on how they worked as this was in your backyard.
Honestly, I think Rivera was tossed out because the new owner wants to come in and make his own imprint on the team. That's how a lot of coaches come loose, ownership changes. Rivera had the Panthers competitive using a backup QB but he's had a target on his back since last year. The Panthers actually did Rivera a favor by letting him get his name out there now and look for a job. So maybe the comparison should be Coughlin getting fired in Jacksonville and everyone knew he'd end up with the Giants. If Gettleman stays and has the say in the next coach, Rivera seems like a natural fit.
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on this website I make up for with common sense.
BTW, still waiting on that different solution part.
Different solution? Greg Roman, Kris Richard, David Saleh....hell, Matt Rhule wouldn't be my choice but I'd rather roll the dice on him than go the predictably mediocre route and have Mr. Magoo bring in his coach from Carolina.
1. Who is David Saleh?
2. Greg Roman and Kris Richard have no HC experience and are therefore also dice rolls. I would take Rivera's proven success over them in a heartbeat.
3. Yes I registered in 2018 but have been lurking since 2004.
[ducks]
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In comment 14701457 prdave73 said:
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Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
McAdoo and Shurmur were never was.
A lot of people though Gruden would be a has been and are now praising what is happening in Oakland.
I'm tired of fooling around with coordinators. Give me a real head coach in here again.
Point taken.. but if you can’t muster a win against the Washington Redskins this year, your not the answer.. It’s probably the reason he got fired before the actual season ended...
you're not going to win games in the NFL with Kyle Allen as your QB. doesnt matter who the coach is
and many years exp as a HC does he have? These guys are dice rolls. trust me, my number one choice is rhule, but maybe i am wrong too....maybe someone who has won in the NFL should be the guy especially with a young team.
Rivera would go a long way in fixing our defense thats for sure
You mean Robert Saleh? - ( New Window )
And the Giants are a dumpster fire. A truly pathetic, rudderless, circus of a team for basically 7 years now. They should favor a known floor candidate.
Which is not to say Rivera is a great choice, but he does possess a base level of HC ability. Personally, I lean toward Jim H. But I don't think the "hot coordinator" route is one the Giants should take, given the degree of their inveterate, virtual across the board failure as an NFL team at present.
to be fair, he's been in a division with a hall of fame QB (Brees), hall of fame coach (Sean P) and a potential Great (matt ryan)
we can't finish over 500 and we play in a division with the Redskins!!
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I mean, aside from Frank Beamer :)
I hate the sonofabitch, but if they wanted to bring in Bud Foster as DC I could live with it. Beamer's entire career was made possible by Foster's defenses.
That was just shooting the shit, BTW. The reason Foster is retiring is due to serious health issues, and he's got more skeletons in his closet than Jeffrey Dahmer, which is why he never got a head coaching offer - a big no-no for Giants' coaches.
You missed my joke in the Knicks thread about you only calling Frank "Frenchie" because Beamer is the only Frank in your heart.
But yeah, who do you want as the HC of the Giants?
This is what a lot of you sound like. So ridiculous.
Hah - I always liked Fassel.
I'd be okay with hiring Rivera - but I don't want another charade of an interview process like when we hired DG.
Sure, whatever. Anyways, thanks for engaging with a 2018er!
NEW YORK GIANTS FOOTBALL: IT COULD BE WORSE
It would be fitting to hang it on the side of the tuna can that Meh Life is.
And the Giants are a dumpster fire. A truly pathetic, rudderless, circus of a team for basically 7 years now. They should favor a known floor candidate.
Which is not to say Rivera is a great choice, but he does possess a base level of HC ability. Personally, I lean toward Jim H. But I don't think the "hot coordinator" route is one the Giants should take, given the degree of their inveterate, virtual across the board failure as an NFL team at present.
Well, given that statement, I'd ask you: of what value is predictable mediocrity? Rivera is a functional head coach, unlike Shurmur, and might be able to scratch out 6 or 7 wins from this roster. Does that actually do anything to improve their long-term prospects?
explain "failed"
some say Belichick has failed because he's had shitty drafts and shitty free agent signings. and although they play in the worst division in football AND has the the greatest QB off all time, has only won 6 superbowls out of the 20 years brady's been there
You're welcome! Maybe you can spend another 14 years thinking of something interesting to say.
He also couldn't win the Super Bowl with 9 or 10 Pro Bowlers, including the 2015 NFL MVP.
You mean like Bill Belichick, Pete Carroll or Tom Coughlin
I believe they were all fired at one point, or at many points.
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Pass.
He also couldn't win the Super Bowl with 9 or 10 Pro Bowlers, including the 2015 NFL MVP.
Yeah man, it's tough to win a Super Bowl, I guess. I can't say for sure because I've never been a coach, but it seems like it's a hard thing to do.
Boy is it fucking exhausting reading posts from you and Go Terps everyday. Rather go through 100 2-14 seasons that live with either of you miserable fucks
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Pass.
He also couldn't win the Super Bowl with 9 or 10 Pro Bowlers, including the 2015 NFL MVP.
PLAYERS PLAY. the pro bowlers play like pre schoolers...everyone blames the coach for EVERYTHING. cam not jumping on a fumble is RR fault? the OL getting OWNED by von miller is RR fault>? the players play dude
Fun fact - the Panthers have NEVER had back-to-back winning seasons. Even Rivera couldn't do it with Cam.
I'm torn on him, but he does seem to have strengths right now in places we have weaknesses. He's an excellent defensive mind. He's been good at developing talent and developing coaches. And bringing in Norv elevated CMC's game. We could use a boost on D and in utilizing Saquon.
I don't often support bold moves, but I'd fire Shurmur and hire Rivera now.
you're here too so you hear the noise. not saying i want Ron (cause I'd rather have someone offensive minded)....
but Panther fans had unrealistic expectations with Cam out.
Luke looks slower this year. Olsen is slower. They really miss the leadership of Thomas Davis. Shaq Thompson is just a whole bunch of potential. WRs are inexperienced
And Kyle Allen is some trash
Not sure what Ron couldve done different
Fun fact - the Panthers have NEVER had back-to-back winning seasons. Even Rivera couldn't do it with Cam.
I'm torn on him, but he does seem to have strengths right now in places we have weaknesses. He's an excellent defensive mind. He's been good at developing talent and developing coaches. And bringing in Norv elevated CMC's game. We could use a boost on D and in utilizing Saquon.
I don't often support bold moves, but I'd fire Shurmur and hire Rivera now.
His defense stinks this year...
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In comment 14701646 Giants in 07 said:
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Pass.
He also couldn't win the Super Bowl with 9 or 10 Pro Bowlers, including the 2015 NFL MVP.
Yeah man, it's tough to win a Super Bowl, I guess. I can't say for sure because I've never been a coach, but it seems like it's a hard thing to do.
Boy is it fucking exhausting reading posts from you and Go Terps everyday. Rather go through 100 2-14 seasons that live with either of you miserable fucks
finally someone agrees with me on this. him and terps are fucking UNBEARABLE
Christ, you're not going to start sobbing again, are you?
This is what a lot of you sound like. So ridiculous.
BOOM
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Boy is it fucking exhausting reading posts from you and Go Terps everyday. Rather go through 100 2-14 seasons that live with either of you miserable fucks
Christ, you're not going to start sobbing again, are you?
You just called someone that signed up in 2018 a troll, yet you're bringing up something from 2009.
It's like me making a jorts joke about you. Joke is a decade old. Get some new material.
you wear jorts greg? ah makes sense now lol
Would have eliminated Marv Levy. Andy Reid. Jon Gruden. Bruce Arians.
Would have eliminated Marv Levy. Andy Reid. Jon Gruden. Bruce Arians.
exactly....rivera is BY FAR better than mcadoo and shurmur. he is less of a risk than rhule, fleck, richard, or any other hot young coach or coordinator. i want rhule, but i dont think rivera is a bad hire
If you want to fire Gettleman, you’ll want no part of Rivera.
Enough of these labels. We need a great coach. Who cares what his mindset is as long as he comes in here and kicks ass.
Rivera is probably about average. Not a knock as there are a lot of bad HCs out there. We can do worse and we can possibly do better.
If you want to fire Gettleman, you’ll want no part of Rivera.
eh thats not necessarily true. id be fine if we part with DG, but i still think riveras strengths would fix our biggest weakness
Rivera could be a solid choice no matter who the GM is. Gettleman never hired him in Carolina. You bring his strength in D in and pair it with Norv to get more production out of Barkley and that could be a winning combination with DG or with a different GM.
Somehow this will probably get warped into being the "familiar Giants way" if Rivera is hired.
Outside of that one fluke 15-1 season when Newton was MVP, Rivera is a sub-.500 coach
People are desparate, that's how bad its gotten. Even jump for a hc step up from shumey. Desparation. Not smart
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and Gettleman worked very well together. They actually have a very similar personality, which I'm sure is just something a lot of you are looking to latch onto as a negative.
Fun fact - the Panthers have NEVER had back-to-back winning seasons. Even Rivera couldn't do it with Cam.
I'm torn on him, but he does seem to have strengths right now in places we have weaknesses. He's an excellent defensive mind. He's been good at developing talent and developing coaches. And bringing in Norv elevated CMC's game. We could use a boost on D and in utilizing Saquon.
I don't often support bold moves, but I'd fire Shurmur and hire Rivera now.
Me too.
Me 3
but he had rodgers....you gave rivera shit for having an MVP...so does mccarthy get a knock?
yea but rodgers>>>>>>>cam and it isnt even close...
I dont want mccarthy, i want rhule but as mentioned i dont think rivera is a bad hire
Would Roman or Salah be even that? Unknown. I'd be more inclined to gamble on them if the Giants were not in catastrophically bad shape with arguably ZERO elite players on the roster. But they could be completely useless as head coaches just like [insert the scores of examples of good OC/DC failing miserably as head coaches].
The point is that a choice does need to be made once Shurmur is gone (God willing...) And there are no "gotta have him" candidates out there. Even if Cowher wanted back in, he hasn't coached in 13 years.
A known floor candidate is the least bad option for the 2019/20 NYG given how bad things are. Not an argument for Rivera specifically (nor would he be my choice), but focus should be on that "type", not the hot coordinator.
You might think that the Giants don't look like the Belle of the Ball but there is nothing like winning in NY -- the rewards are much more lucrative than most other places and the Giants are one of the premier teams in Sports.
the facts are that all three of them have had teams that folded when the pressure was on the line
Belichick failed at his last job before the Pats.
Coughlin failed at his last job before the Giants.
Jon Gruden failed at his last job before the Bucs.
Just a few examples off top of my head.
Not comparing RR to them, but your point isn't valid.
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when we are excited about the idea of hiring a coach who failed in his last job.
Belichick failed at his last job before the Pats.
Coughlin failed at his last job before the Giants.
Jon Gruden failed at his last job before the Bucs.
Just a few examples off top of my head.
Not comparing RR to them, but your point isn't valid.
I thought Belichick did just fine in his 1 day as HC of the NYJ.
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In comment 14701571 EricJ said:
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when we are excited about the idea of hiring a coach who failed in his last job.
Belichick failed at his last job before the Pats.
Coughlin failed at his last job before the Giants.
Jon Gruden failed at his last job before the Bucs.
Just a few examples off top of my head.
Not comparing RR to them, but your point isn't valid.
I thought Belichick did just fine in his 1 day as HC of the NYJ.
Haha
If you want to fire Gettleman, you’ll want no part of Rivera.
I think this is probably true. From a Gettleman standpoint, it seems too good to be true.
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when we are excited about the idea of hiring a coach who failed in his last job.
Belichick failed at his last job before the Pats.
Coughlin failed at his last job before the Giants.
Jon Gruden failed at his last job before the Bucs.
Just a few examples off top of my head.
Not comparing RR to them, but your point isn't valid.
Shurmur failed at his last job before the Giants.
In comment 14701691 Sean said:
If you want to fire Gettleman, you’ll want no part of Rivera.
Who here wanted to hire him after his San Francisco or Buffalo tenures?
Also, if he’s such a genius, why do the Ravens need analytics guys phoning down to Harbaugh what plays to run?
Roman feels like he could be the next Adam Gase.
I'm torn on it. I'm to the point that anything but Shurmur sounds good to me.
this is a good point. if rivera were hired it is not an automatic that norv would be coming here.
but, those saying rivera couldn't win the SB with 9-10 pro-bowlers. come on now. we know cam choked that game away.
cam is mentally soft, always has been. now, after going vegan, he is physically soft too.
i'd date rivera over either of mccarthy, garrett, saleh. probably roman. only guy who interests me more is ruhle.
That being said, I'm kind of hoping for a clean sweep from the head on down.
Would have eliminated Marv Levy. Andy Reid. Jon Gruden. Bruce Arians.
Bingo.
Who here wanted to hire him after his San Francisco or Buffalo tenures?
Roman is a run-first offensive coordinator. In every year he ran San Francisco's offense, they were 8th, 4th, 3rd, and 4th. He built an offense around the players they had and maximized the passing and running talent of the QB.
And he's doing the same thing in Baltimore now.
Yep.
I get the point.. but that is really low class. Something Jerry Jones would do.
The miserable thing is being a Giants fan. The only thing that divides us is our tolerance for delusion.
Some of you pom-pom types act like we are the reason the team sucks. It's like blaming the weatherman when it rains.
what a shock. who do you want to be the next head coach? jesus for the love of god i hope it happens so you can stop constantly crying.
if someone handed you a million cash you would probably bitch that it wasnt in singles
Ron Rivera is the favorite to become next Giants HC.
He's a Defensive Head Coach who is committed to complementary football. That fits Gettleman's vision. He worked under Gettleman in Carolina, so they would work well together.
Rivera just makes too much sense for NYG.
Per FMiC, Rivera and DG worked well together.
Does that change your mind? ;)
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Nothing against him, but he isn't fixing this team's issues.
Per FMiC, Rivera and DG worked well together.
Does that change your mind? ;)
I'd rather have the guy that fired Rivera calling the shots here.
2) It makes the return of OBJ to the Meadowlands VERY interesting. Perhaps the Giants can give away 25,000 bats as "souvenirs" that day, similar to Yankee Bat Day!
Of course, that could be dangerous:
Impact of Yankee Stadium Bat Day on blunt trauma in northern New York City
lol/. no my point is youre never happy...you consistently bitch and moan about every choice. i have never ONCE heard you say that was a smart move. you consistently never have ANYTHING positive to say.
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You feel like being a Giants fan is similar to someone handing you a million dollars in cash?
lol/. no my point is youre never happy...you consistently bitch and moan about every choice. i have never ONCE heard you say that was a smart move. you consistently never have ANYTHING positive to say.
What is there that's positive to say about this team?
The Giants have been, objectively, one of the worst organizations in the NFL since 2013. That's not an opinion...it's a fact.
We both want the team to be better and compete, so we're not all that different in that way. The difference is that you are more willing to kid yourself into thinking things that will make you believe the Giants are doing well. I can't do that, I'm sorry. When I see a plane crash into a mountain, I don't tell myself the passengers are all OK.
Which sadly would be a huge improvement over our last two coaches.
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that will keep you in purgatory. Good enough to be competitive but never be bad - but not good enough to win in today's NFL.
Which sadly would be a huge improvement over our last two coaches.
While true, they need to hit a home run not a triple. They have to be ready to compete by the time Barkley is due for his next contract.
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Bwahahahaha. I mean he has experience as an interim HC, but bwahahahahaha
What's so funny? Is he any worse that who is coaching the current Giants?
And if that was all Cam Newton, which is undoubtedly the next response, why isn't Cam Newton doing that every year?
If you want to fire Gettleman, you’ll want no part of Rivera.
Or, stated differently, if you feel football operations are fundamentally broken in the Meadowlands, two guys from the current school of thinking don't portend change.
Some think he got a raw deal. If you believe Fatman and the buzz on Gettleman's surprise firing, Richardson is a more meddling owner that you believe Mara to be.
That said, good coaches meet bad ends. Happens all the time. A lot of guys didn't want a retread in Coughlin for the same reasons.
This is a guy that has been successful at every stop. He's 58. Lots of time to grow and evolve.
Only on BBI can we have morons acting like Ron Rivera is a “failed” head coach.
Oh no, he was fired!
There is a long list of coaches even better than him that have been fired but I guess they’re failures too.
The incompetence doesn't leave with Shurmur, and Rivera probably isn't good enough to overcome it either.
If we're hiring Rivera to come in and rebuild the organization as a CEO-type head coach, I'm all ears. He seems like a smart guy. If we're bringing him in to work with Gettleman in the same silo'd head coach/GM roles, then we'll be a little better than we are now but that's it.
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can we have at 220 and counting post on the potential of Ron Rivera, an in season fired head coach, of Carolina, becoming the next coach of the Giants. This is how bad and desperate the Giants Fan base have become...so sad...
Some think he got a raw deal. If you believe Fatman and the buzz on Gettleman's surprise firing, Richardson is a more meddling owner that you believe Mara to be.
That said, good coaches meet bad ends. Happens all the time. A lot of guys didn't want a retread in Coughlin for the same reasons.
This is a guy that has been successful at every stop. He's 58. Lots of time to grow and evolve.
I agree and I understand.. I would not be opposed to the prospect of Rivera.. but holy shit... yes Shurmur is getting canned, he must.. but this calamity, in this thread proves just how bad the Giants have become... an absolute joke.. and deservedly right...
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can we have at 220 and counting post on the potential of Ron Rivera, an in season fired head coach, of Carolina, becoming the next coach of the Giants. This is how bad and desperate the Giants Fan base have become...so sad...
Only on BBI can we have morons acting like Ron Rivera is a “failed” head coach.
Oh no, he was fired!
There is a long list of coaches even better than him that have been fired but I guess they’re failures too.
Cocksucker, point out where I said he was a failed head coach?
he said he liked RR and felt a lot of what was going on was blamed on him but he thinks thats BS. he isnt an overly knowledgable fan, but he is realistic and feels winning with allen isnt an easy task. he posted on facebook about it and his friends who are also fans seemed pretty split on the firing. several did agree that it might have been a timing thing and thjat RR isnt at fault for this year. ALL of them on the post agreed norv has done a great job. my buddy feels we would be lucky to have both.
just figured id pass it along.
15-1 season and Superbowl appearance
3 Division Titles in 8 years
4 playoff appearances in 8 years.
Defensive Coordinator for an awesome Chicago Bears Defense and a Superbowl Appearance there.
Defensive Coordinator for the Chargers which was a good enough showing to get him a head coach job.
This guy has the credentials. And whether you love or hate Dave Gettleman, they've worked together, think highly of each other, and collaborated for a 15-1 Superbowl Campaign.
C'mon guys, this is a godsend right now. A touched by the hand of godsend if you will :)
I’m arguing that it’s laughable there are people who don’t think Rivera is a really solid head coach worthy of consideration for other openings across the league.
That being said, the team's been a few plays away from being an over .500 team with a no-name rookie QB. Even with McCaffrey, that's still pretty impressive. Give him an elite OC, and QB that we believe Jones to be and he will do damage in a division that's been mediocre in comparison to what the NFC South has been over the past decade.
Is he better than Belichick? No. But he can definitely beat him, and that's what you need in today's NFL.
Rivera is 2-0 against Belichick winning in 2013 and 2017, home and then away.
Indeed. I'm on board for this.
Who here wanted to hire him after his San Francisco or Buffalo tenures?
Also, if he’s such a genius, why do the Ravens need analytics guys phoning down to Harbaugh what plays to run?
Roman feels like he could be the next Adam Gase.
Roman knows running really well. He could give Kyle Shanahan a run for the money there possibly.
The issue is he never understood passing concepts very well.
If you go all in on him without having the type of players and QB the Ravens have, it would be a mistake.
The 49ers had quite a bit of offensive talent, but even as much of a running team as they were didn't run it like the Ravens do now.
Now, those who kiss his arse want to see him take another six or seven digit sinecure to re-create himself into the Giants' Saviour? No fuggin way
Same with Garrett, Jerrah's garbage who has lived off the talented careers of his OC and DC.
The Giants must conduct a thorough analysis of the football operations. Inclusive of ownership input, general management, operations, strategy etc.
It takes virtually no acumen to know if you're on the verge of the 3rd coach in 4 years something more than coaching is wrong.
Rivera is a better coach than Shurmur, and the Giants will win more games if he's the coach. Rivera is not a good enough coach to beat what's rotten in the building.
He can't win in today's NFL? Are you f-cking kidding me?
That's why we've gotta move now!
Seriously, if the Giants don't make this move, then I'll think they're incompetent.
This is the move. Make it.
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That's why we've gotta move now!
Seriously, if the Giants don't make this move, then I'll think they're incompetent.
This is the move. Make it.
NO WAY they do it before seasons end. i do expect them to interview him though once shurmur gone
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That's why we've gotta move now!
Seriously, if the Giants don't make this move, then I'll think they're incompetent.
This is the move. Make it.
You believe the Giants should hire a head coach who was literally just fired, without doing a thorough evaluation of management and ownership's role in the current, deep mess the team is in?
I mean, you are pretty good at predicting the ridiculous things the Giants do, so I suspect you are right.
Dave Dameshek's most recent Athletic podcast includes an interview with a Dallas beat writer, and they discussed who could potentially replace Garrett. He seemed to think Jones will go for big air...even suggesting he should start by approaching Belichick. But beyond that he cited a couple interesting connections to college coaches...Lincoln Riley and Chris Peterson. Apparently Riley got to know Jones during recruiting for his grandson, a QB at Arkansas (Jones's alma mater). As for Peterson, Dallas has a recent history of drafting Boise State guys: Moore, Lawrence, Scandrick, Van Der Esch...there's a connection there.
I doubt that's sexy enough for Jerry. He'd be in the Lincoln Riley/Jim Harbaugh/Urban Meyer neighborhood.
NEW YORK GIANTS FOOTBALL: IT COULD BE WORSE
LMAO
On the world wide web,misery's all you got
I don't know what that means.
If we hire Rivera does that mean Gettleman is gone and the front office will be restructured? Then yes, I'd love it.
If we hire Rivera to be the HC, Gettleman remains the GM, and nothing otherwise changes...then who cares? We're still a loser. Change is needed. REAL change. Not just swapping the nameplate on the head coach's door.
Pat Shurmur is not the reason the Giants suck. Accepting that is the first step on the road to recovery.
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This guy Lamar Jackson'd the league before Lamar was even a thing.
I don't know what that means.
If we hire Rivera does that mean Gettleman is gone and the front office will be restructured? Then yes, I'd love it.
If we hire Rivera to be the HC, Gettleman remains the GM, and nothing otherwise changes...then who cares? We're still a loser. Change is needed. REAL change. Not just swapping the nameplate on the head coach's door.
Pat Shurmur is not the reason the Giants suck. Accepting that is the first step on the road to recovery.
Terps, you are one of my favorite posters and I agree with you most of the time..but wow.. Shurmur is not the reason why the Giants suck? He is dreadful... just at look at the Baldy post RE: the OLine not knowing WTF they are supposed to do...He was a center in college.. He is the HC..responsible for all things... I mean come on .. he might not be the only reason but we with decent HC would be better than a 2 win team.
You're right...Shurmur has been absolutely awful. A disaster. But why does the buck stop with him? Gettleman has been equally bad. The 2018 draft class is flopping, the FA signings have busted, and the general resource management wouldn't pass muster in Madden on Rookie level.
But Gettleman isn't the reason either. The reason we suck is that ownership is married to an antiquated way of doing business, and that results in the hiring of incompetent people like Shurmur and Gettleman into important positions.
This problem is way bigger than anything Ron Rivera can fix.
And if that was all Cam Newton, which is undoubtedly the next response, why isn't Cam Newton doing that every year?
3 winning seasons, but keep looking at the outlier.
Rivera isn’t winning a title in today’s NFL.
The Giants fired the GM, and two seasons later are on the verge of actually losing more games than under the incumbent.
The problem is not isolated to Pat Shurmur.
You're right...Shurmur has been absolutely awful. A disaster. But why does the buck stop with him? Gettleman has been equally bad. The 2018 draft class is flopping, the FA signings have busted, and the general resource management wouldn't pass muster in Madden on Rookie level.
But Gettleman isn't the reason either. The reason we suck is that ownership is married to an antiquated way of doing business, and that results in the hiring of incompetent people like Shurmur and Gettleman into important positions.
This problem is way bigger than anything Ron Rivera can fix.
baby steps dude.
rivera helps fix the defense and norv getting more out of barkley....those sound like two nice early fixes to me....
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He was 15-1 and in the Superbowl a couple years ago? WTF?
And if that was all Cam Newton, which is undoubtedly the next response, why isn't Cam Newton doing that every year?
3 winning seasons, but keep looking at the outlier.
Rivera isn’t winning a title in today’s NFL.
Well that isn’t fair. He got a highly flawed QB in Newton to an MVP and Super Bowl and then injuries set in. Cam sucks, he got about as much out of him as anyone could.
Hell, I'd prefer Rivera be GM, too, over Resume.
But Terps is right. Gettleman is the bigger problem. As long as he's in place the problems will persist.
On Paterson, btw, he's burned out coaching UDub. Why would he want to deal with Dallas, which is going to be 10X the pressure...??
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He was 15-1 and in the Superbowl a couple years ago? WTF?
And if that was all Cam Newton, which is undoubtedly the next response, why isn't Cam Newton doing that every year?
3 winning seasons, but keep looking at the outlier.
Rivera isn’t winning a title in today’s NFL.
LMFAO/ i love wen people talk in absolutes! the dude almsot won a super bowl not long ago. you act like he is a fucking dinosaur. the game of football hasnt "changed" that much....
This is what needs to happen after the season for the Giants.
Link - ( New Window )
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He was 15-1 and in the Superbowl a couple years ago? WTF?
And if that was all Cam Newton, which is undoubtedly the next response, why isn't Cam Newton doing that every year?
3 winning seasons, but keep looking at the outlier.
Rivera isn’t winning a title in today’s NFL.
He's been to the playoffs 4 out of the last 6 seasons! Including a 15-1 Superbowl campaign! He also won AP Coach of the year 2x during that span. You're off the deep end, dude.
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"We are going to take a comprehensive and thorough review of our football operation to make sure we are structured for long-term sustained success," Tepper said.
This is what needs to happen after the season for the Giants. Link - ( New Window )
These are words that literally will never be spoken by a Giant owner.
You guys want to know what's needed? It's right there. Not Ron Rivera.
THAT is what is needed with the New York Giants.
He sucks now. There was a time where his wheels and physicality was good enough (great for a while, in fact) to overcome his shitty throwing but that’s no more.
I really need to explain that?
As for Rivera, he’d be a good hire if the FO isn’t getting rid of Gettelman. I’m all in on fully cleaning house but I’m not going to harp on it thread after thread. I’ll live with whatever happens.
You guys want to know what's needed? It's right there. Not Ron Rivera.
GT- you can't selectively praise one quote to prop up your argument when the fundamental flaw as you see it is ownership involved in football decisions. The man you are praising also wants to to put his stamp on the football side of things. What makes him qualified as an owner to make football decisions?
Naa, that’s just your interpretation. He was great for a few years, despite his pretty glaring flaws. And wen they went 15-1 they had a great defense, something a previous poster was chalking up to an outlier.
That’s garbage. Rivera is a good coach.
You’re the one whose posting all of his accomplishments.
Like I said Rivera is a guy who keeps you in purgatory. Right around 7-9/9-7 with the outlier great season. That’s not what the Giants need, they need to hit this one out of the park
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In comment 14701780 Go Terps said:
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You feel like being a Giants fan is similar to someone handing you a million dollars in cash?
lol/. no my point is youre never happy...you consistently bitch and moan about every choice. i have never ONCE heard you say that was a smart move. you consistently never have ANYTHING positive to say.
What is there that's positive to say about this team?
The Giants have been, objectively, one of the worst organizations in the NFL since 2013. That's not an opinion...it's a fact.
We both want the team to be better and compete, so we're not all that different in that way. The difference is that you are more willing to kid yourself into thinking things that will make you believe the Giants are doing well. I can't do that, I'm sorry. When I see a plane crash into a mountain, I don't tell myself the passengers are all OK.
One of the worst?
Since 2017 objectively they are THE worst.
Only 3 years out of 9 with winning seasons
Yes he “made” playoffs 4 times but Once was with losing record.
He did go 15-1 and make the Super Bowl. But he also had a massively stacked team with 10 Pro Bowlers, and an NFL MVP QB and was unable to muster sustained winning.
He lost the SB big (24-10) as the 5.5 favorite, Blown at home (23-10) by San Fran as favorites. Got down big (24-9) to NO in a playoff game as a 12 win team and got blown out by Seattle (down 31-10) as well at home. Some of the final scores look a bit better due to late TDs.
And now has a losing year 3 out of 4 seasons.
I don’t see this as a slam dunk candidate at all.
John Harbaugh or Belichick or Reid shaking loose?
John Harbaugh or Belichick or Reid shaking loose?
An out of the park hire would be Roman, Rhule or Riley
And if that was all Cam Newton, which is undoubtedly the next response, why isn't Cam Newton doing that every year?
Why isn't Rivera?
Do you even read what you write sometimes?
I think if we want a total teardown, we gotta lose out. And that's very possible.
I think some of you need some perspective on what good coaching is. Rivera isn't Belichick but he's been an above average head coach in this league.
I'm not advocating for or against him in the Giants scenario, but some of these posts are flat wrong.
I'll take Rivera as an imperfect but potential winner in the mold of Coughlin.
This also does not inspire confidence:
This sounds exactly like the Giants from 2012-2015 under Coughlin.
link - ( New Window )
1) Gettleman has to go up there and say he's trying to win now, what else is he going to say.
2) What's the point of addressing the fans mid-season, it's just a way for the fans and media to get a pound of flesh.
Fewell might win more games as HC this year than Shurmur.
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"We are going to take a comprehensive and thorough review of our football operation to make sure we are structured for long-term sustained success," Tepper said.
This is what needs to happen after the season for the Giants. Link - ( New Window )
Maybe Tepper helped us out here - because a team coming off a better record of late just fired their coach and is going to do this evaluation, meanwhile Mara has plans to just leave the status quo in the FO and bring in Rivera.
Rivera is certainly an upgrade over Shurmur - but if they hire him without any sort of due diligence - real due diligence, not just Accorsi swinging by to tell a couple of Bert Jones stories followed by a thumbs-up - then nobody should be surprised when the shit football continues.
Some posters have cried for a GM and coach “tied at the hip.” Well here you go. These guys have experience working together and align philosophically.
Rivera is a defensive HC — what this team needs. He has experience winning in this league. He has the best resume of any retreads likely on the market, with less talent.
The Giants tried the hot coordinator route with terrible results. Rolling the dice on Rhule cutting his teeth in the pros is too risky. Saleh is a gamble. Roman runs a Cracker Jack offense that requires a QB who runs a 4.4.
I’d be perfectly fine with Rivera as the next HC. I think he can be even better liberated from limited QBs running his team.
Who knows what would have happened if Eli wasn’t forced on them.
Who knows what would have happened if Eli wasn’t forced on them.
Congratulations, AJ. With post 292, you are the first to smear Eli and imply the team is a winner hamstrung by him being on the roster. For your implication to have merit, it would help if OBJ and the rest of the receivers could catch the darts was throwing in the only game that mattered. I presume you are loving the "winning" that is happening this season with Eli as a spectator.
Only 3 years out of 9 with winning seasons
Yes he “made” playoffs 4 times but Once was with losing record.
He did go 15-1 and make the Super Bowl. But he also had a massively stacked team with 10 Pro Bowlers, and an NFL MVP QB and was unable to muster sustained winning.
He lost the SB big (24-10) as the 5.5 favorite, Blown at home (23-10) by San Fran as favorites. Got down big (24-9) to NO in a playoff game as a 12 win team and got blown out by Seattle (down 31-10) as well at home. Some of the final scores look a bit better due to late TDs.
And now has a losing year 3 out of 4 seasons.
I don’t see this as a slam dunk candidate at all.
Nice summary here. The 3 of 9 winning seasons is a red flag.
What exactly is he good at as a HC? He’s supposedly a good defensive mind but the Panthers have largely been bottom half of the league in PPG during his tenure.
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And made the playoffs for what it’s worth.
Who knows what would have happened if Eli wasn’t forced on them.
Congratulations, AJ. With post 292, you are the first to smear Eli and imply the team is a winner hamstrung by him being on the roster. For your implication to have merit, it would help if OBJ and the rest of the receivers could catch the darts was throwing in the only game that mattered. I presume you are loving the "winning" that is happening this season with Eli as a spectator.
I mean if you don’t think this team would be in a better situation had they started to rebuild sooner instead of trying to win with a declining Eli then I don’t know what to tell you.
The offense was bad in 2016, all the signs were there. There are reports, granted can’t be taken fully at face value, that Mcadoo wanted to trade up for Mahomes. So yes, who knows how different 2019 goes for the Giants if Eli wasn’t forced on them in 2017 and 2018, and if Mara didn’t cave to the benching backlash.
For all of McAdoos faults - and there were a lot - he was right about needing to move on from Eli.
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Nothing against him, but he isn't fixing this team's issues.
Per FMiC, Rivera and DG worked well together.
Does that change your mind? ;)
This is one of the many ways BBI has devolved. Posting a statement that isn't disputed around Carolina now gets one mocked here. A simple one-line statement that DG and Rivera worked well together.
Your misery is fucking awesome for the rest of us...
Because you know, if he was fired it means he sucks!
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
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The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
Good for you, AJ. You keep being you. Just realize that a thread that had nothing to do with Eli, everyone managed to resist dragging him into the thread. 6 pages and 292 posts before you couldn't help yourself. There are certain posters that are predictable. I guess I'm just surprised that it wasn't Junior22.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
That doesn't mean wild, unorthodox play calls or schemes. It means value oriented roster construction, more technology on the practice field, more technology and analysis on the sidelines, and fewer mistakes by letting data make the easy calls.
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In comment 14702255 Diver_Down said:
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The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
Good for you, AJ. You keep being you. Just realize that a thread that had nothing to do with Eli, everyone managed to resist dragging him into the thread. 6 pages and 292 posts before you couldn't help yourself. There are certain posters that are predictable. I guess I'm just surprised that it wasn't Junior22.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Eli threw for 4500 yards and 35 TD's in 2015. The offense was the 6th scoring offense in the NFL.
In 2016, when McAdoo took over and fully converted the offense to his own, WITH THE SAME PERSONNEL:
Eli still threw for 4000 yards and 26 TD's. The offense was the 26th scoring offense in the NFL.
You want to put that on Eli. Cool. That's not what occurred. McAdoo's offense sucked and he's still out of the NFL.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
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know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
Eli threw for 4500 yards and 35 TD's in 2015. The offense was the 6th scoring offense in the NFL.
In 2016, when McAdoo took over and fully converted the offense to his own, WITH THE SAME PERSONNEL:
Eli still threw for 4000 yards and 26 TD's. The offense was the 26th scoring offense in the NFL.
You want to put that on Eli. Cool. That's not what occurred. McAdoo's offense sucked and he's still out of the NFL.
No, Mike Sullivan was the OC. That's the truth.
If you think that the OC's sole responsibility is play calling, your view of NFL football is way more simplistic than I imagined.
Whatever the reason you want to twist and turn it into... Coughlin left, and any offensive success we had went with him.
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Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
McAdoo and Shurmur were never was.
A lot of people though Gruden would be a has been and are now praising what is happening in Oakland.
I'm tired of fooling around with coordinators. Give me a real head coach in here again.
I won't be praising Gruden too much. The Raiders lost 34-3 and 40-9 the last 2 weeks and haven't beat a team with a winning record since 2018.
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In comment 14702269 Jon in NYC said:
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know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
So Rivera is a dinosaur yet his team played in a Super Bowl 4 years ago? Went to the playoffs 2 years ago and one of his long-time assistants is doing awesome in Buffalo where they lost forever.
Ok.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Or you could point out that McAdoo's scheme was hot garbage. Complete vanilla that even Mahomes TODAY would struggle with. They made the playoffs in 2016 because the defense played out of its mind.
Meanwhile, your "hot coordinator" couldn't manage an offense to score more than 20 points in 19 of the 29 games he coached, something Shurmur did (with Eli as his QB, no less) in 7 of the last 8 games last year.
Maybe McAddo was early on realizing that Eli was losing his fastball, but Mac never realized that he never had one.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
That's ridiculous. This is the same nonsense bandied about with regards to fixing culture, signing Solder to stabilize the line, signing washed up vets to stabilize the locker room, hiring an adult in Shurmur, hiring a GM who understands the Giants Way.
The Giants need to hire a head coach and general manager who have the intelligence, experience, and self awareness to compete in a rapidly more analytical and technology driven game.
The goal isn't stable. It's to win a fucking championship.
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This franchise needs a stabilizing force.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
That's ridiculous. This is the same nonsense bandied about with regards to fixing culture, signing Solder to stabilize the line, signing washed up vets to stabilize the locker room, hiring an adult in Shurmur, hiring a GM who understands the Giants Way.
The Giants need to hire a head coach and general manager who have the intelligence, experience, and self awareness to compete in a rapidly more analytical and technology driven game.
The goal isn't stable. It's to win a fucking championship.
No, it's reality. What's nonsense, or a better phrase would be "much longer odds of happening, is that some unproven guy is going to come up and change the entire way of doing business successfully.
For every Sean McVay there are 100 Chip Kelly's. Even Doug Pederson's magic appeal is wearing off already. Who's the guy that was supposed to be next in Chicago? Nagy? He was the next big thing too.
No, you need to be STABLE before you win championships. You need a solid core to build upon.
Crawl before you walk.
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See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Or you could point out that McAdoo's scheme was hot garbage. Complete vanilla that even Mahomes TODAY would struggle with. They made the playoffs in 2016 because the defense played out of its mind.
Meanwhile, your "hot coordinator" couldn't manage an offense to score more than 20 points in 19 of the 29 games he coached, something Shurmur did (with Eli as his QB, no less) in 7 of the last 8 games last year.
Maybe McAddo was early on realizing that Eli was losing his fastball, but Mac never realized that he never had one.
Nobody said McAdoo wasn’t flawed. But we shouldn’t avoid the hot coordinator because one with a handicapped roster failed.
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In comment 14702279 Chris684 said:
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In comment 14702269 Jon in NYC said:
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know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
So Rivera is a dinosaur yet his team played in a Super Bowl 4 years ago? Went to the playoffs 2 years ago and one of his long-time assistants is doing awesome in Buffalo where they lost forever.
Ok.
No one is saying that embracing analytics is required to win or that you can't win in spite of a disregard for the value of analytics. But they do have a very real value and several teams are using analytics in some form or fashion to an extent that appears - from an outsider's vantage point - to exceed the level to which the Giants use them.
If used properly, they can provide a competitive edge. If used adequately, they can help teams keep up with the pack. If ignored entirely, it's not a death knell but it is an unnecessary willingness to invite a disadvantage into the equation.
Analytics, at its core, is just data. Which is just information. Why anyone feels like it's a smart move to have a front office - and potentially coaching staff - that is in any way reluctant to use additional information (and trust it) is beyond me.
Why the fuck would any fan encourage their team to knowingly use less information than their competition?
And for the record, I'm not the one calling him a dinosaur - I'm merely repeating what the rumors are surrounding his termination. The team wants to go with a coach with a more modern approach and willingness to embrace analytics. If that doesn't read to you that THEY feel like Rivera has some antiquated elements in his approach and an unwillingness to utilize data, I don't know what to tell you.