The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
Good for you, AJ. You keep being you. Just realize that a thread that had nothing to do with Eli, everyone managed to resist dragging him into the thread. 6 pages and 292 posts before you couldn't help yourself. There are certain posters that are predictable. I guess I'm just surprised that it wasn't Junior22.
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
Chris -- you should do a little reading on Rivera. He's on the record advocating for less technology in the game. He proudly advocates for an old school approach. He's literally getting fired because the new ownership wants a more modern approach to the game.
That doesn't mean wild, unorthodox play calls or schemes. It means value oriented roster construction, more technology on the practice field, more technology and analysis on the sidelines, and fewer mistakes by letting data make the easy calls.
The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
Good for you, AJ. You keep being you. Just realize that a thread that had nothing to do with Eli, everyone managed to resist dragging him into the thread. 6 pages and 292 posts before you couldn't help yourself. There are certain posters that are predictable. I guess I'm just surprised that it wasn't Junior22.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
The truth is that McAdoo was an offensive coordinator/HC Â
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
RE: The truth is that McAdoo was an offensive coordinator/HC Â
Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
McAdoo and Shurmur were never was.
A lot of people though Gruden would be a has been and are now praising what is happening in Oakland.
I'm tired of fooling around with coordinators. Give me a real head coach in here again.
I won't be praising Gruden too much. The Raiders lost 34-3 and 40-9 the last 2 weeks and haven't beat a team with a winning record since 2018.
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
So Rivera is a dinosaur yet his team played in a Super Bowl 4 years ago? Went to the playoffs 2 years ago and one of his long-time assistants is doing awesome in Buffalo where they lost forever.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Or you could point out that McAdoo's scheme was hot garbage. Complete vanilla that even Mahomes TODAY would struggle with. They made the playoffs in 2016 because the defense played out of its mind.
Meanwhile, your "hot coordinator" couldn't manage an offense to score more than 20 points in 19 of the 29 games he coached, something Shurmur did (with Eli as his QB, no less) in 7 of the last 8 games last year.
Maybe McAddo was early on realizing that Eli was losing his fastball, but Mac never realized that he never had one.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
That's ridiculous. This is the same nonsense bandied about with regards to fixing culture, signing Solder to stabilize the line, signing washed up vets to stabilize the locker room, hiring an adult in Shurmur, hiring a GM who understands the Giants Way.
The Giants need to hire a head coach and general manager who have the intelligence, experience, and self awareness to compete in a rapidly more analytical and technology driven game.
The goal isn't stable. It's to win a fucking championship.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
That's ridiculous. This is the same nonsense bandied about with regards to fixing culture, signing Solder to stabilize the line, signing washed up vets to stabilize the locker room, hiring an adult in Shurmur, hiring a GM who understands the Giants Way.
The Giants need to hire a head coach and general manager who have the intelligence, experience, and self awareness to compete in a rapidly more analytical and technology driven game.
The goal isn't stable. It's to win a fucking championship.
No, it's reality. What's nonsense, or a better phrase would be "much longer odds of happening, is that some unproven guy is going to come up and change the entire way of doing business successfully.
For every Sean McVay there are 100 Chip Kelly's. Even Doug Pederson's magic appeal is wearing off already. Who's the guy that was supposed to be next in Chicago? Nagy? He was the next big thing too.
No, you need to be STABLE before you win championships. You need a solid core to build upon.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Or you could point out that McAdoo's scheme was hot garbage. Complete vanilla that even Mahomes TODAY would struggle with. They made the playoffs in 2016 because the defense played out of its mind.
Meanwhile, your "hot coordinator" couldn't manage an offense to score more than 20 points in 19 of the 29 games he coached, something Shurmur did (with Eli as his QB, no less) in 7 of the last 8 games last year.
Maybe McAddo was early on realizing that Eli was losing his fastball, but Mac never realized that he never had one.
Nobody said McAdoo wasn’t flawed. But we shouldn’t avoid the hot coordinator because one with a handicapped roster failed.
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
So Rivera is a dinosaur yet his team played in a Super Bowl 4 years ago? Went to the playoffs 2 years ago and one of his long-time assistants is doing awesome in Buffalo where they lost forever.
Ok.
No one is saying that embracing analytics is required to win or that you can't win in spite of a disregard for the value of analytics. But they do have a very real value and several teams are using analytics in some form or fashion to an extent that appears - from an outsider's vantage point - to exceed the level to which the Giants use them.
If used properly, they can provide a competitive edge. If used adequately, they can help teams keep up with the pack. If ignored entirely, it's not a death knell but it is an unnecessary willingness to invite a disadvantage into the equation.
Analytics, at its core, is just data. Which is just information. Why anyone feels like it's a smart move to have a front office - and potentially coaching staff - that is in any way reluctant to use additional information (and trust it) is beyond me.
Why the fuck would any fan encourage their team to knowingly use less information than their competition?
And for the record, I'm not the one calling him a dinosaur - I'm merely repeating what the rumors are surrounding his termination. The team wants to go with a coach with a more modern approach and willingness to embrace analytics. If that doesn't read to you that THEY feel like Rivera has some antiquated elements in his approach and an unwillingness to utilize data, I don't know what to tell you.
the problem with “analytics”, a “sophisticated” word for statistics, Â
is applying the population generated # to the specific situation of the moment. Sure “probabilities” help, but something, someone, has to be able to decide what applies in a specific situation, at a specific moment of time. So statistical data is helpful but it requires an intelligent experienced human being to apply it. That’s why you won’t have a computer as your physician or football coach.
Quote:
The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
Good for you, AJ. You keep being you. Just realize that a thread that had nothing to do with Eli, everyone managed to resist dragging him into the thread. 6 pages and 292 posts before you couldn't help yourself. There are certain posters that are predictable. I guess I'm just surprised that it wasn't Junior22.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
That doesn't mean wild, unorthodox play calls or schemes. It means value oriented roster construction, more technology on the practice field, more technology and analysis on the sidelines, and fewer mistakes by letting data make the easy calls.
Quote:
In comment 14702255 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
The entire thread has nothing to do with Eli. Literally. Everyone except you managed to drag an insinuation that Eli is what has held this team back. Some posters can't help themselves. Now that Eli is a spectator, I hope you are enjoying the winning ways.
A poster said we went the hot coordinator route and shouldn’t do it again because it failed.
What’s wrong with pointing out that hot coordinator, while flawed was also handicapped at the most important position and made the playoffs one of his two seasons?
Good for you, AJ. You keep being you. Just realize that a thread that had nothing to do with Eli, everyone managed to resist dragging him into the thread. 6 pages and 292 posts before you couldn't help yourself. There are certain posters that are predictable. I guess I'm just surprised that it wasn't Junior22.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Eli threw for 4500 yards and 35 TD's in 2015. The offense was the 6th scoring offense in the NFL.
In 2016, when McAdoo took over and fully converted the offense to his own, WITH THE SAME PERSONNEL:
Eli still threw for 4000 yards and 26 TD's. The offense was the 26th scoring offense in the NFL.
You want to put that on Eli. Cool. That's not what occurred. McAdoo's offense sucked and he's still out of the NFL.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
Quote:
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
Eli threw for 4500 yards and 35 TD's in 2015. The offense was the 6th scoring offense in the NFL.
In 2016, when McAdoo took over and fully converted the offense to his own, WITH THE SAME PERSONNEL:
Eli still threw for 4000 yards and 26 TD's. The offense was the 26th scoring offense in the NFL.
You want to put that on Eli. Cool. That's not what occurred. McAdoo's offense sucked and he's still out of the NFL.
No, Mike Sullivan was the OC. That's the truth.
If you think that the OC's sole responsibility is play calling, your view of NFL football is way more simplistic than I imagined.
Whatever the reason you want to twist and turn it into... Coughlin left, and any offensive success we had went with him.
Quote:
Handles these situations! Don’t wait till the end of the season? If the coach sucks ass and can’t hack it, you fire him. Period. And no to Riviera, we don’t need another has been.
The last has been we had was Coughlin.
McAdoo and Shurmur were never was.
A lot of people though Gruden would be a has been and are now praising what is happening in Oakland.
I'm tired of fooling around with coordinators. Give me a real head coach in here again.
I won't be praising Gruden too much. The Raiders lost 34-3 and 40-9 the last 2 weeks and haven't beat a team with a winning record since 2018.
Quote:
In comment 14702269 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
So Rivera is a dinosaur yet his team played in a Super Bowl 4 years ago? Went to the playoffs 2 years ago and one of his long-time assistants is doing awesome in Buffalo where they lost forever.
Ok.
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Or you could point out that McAdoo's scheme was hot garbage. Complete vanilla that even Mahomes TODAY would struggle with. They made the playoffs in 2016 because the defense played out of its mind.
Meanwhile, your "hot coordinator" couldn't manage an offense to score more than 20 points in 19 of the 29 games he coached, something Shurmur did (with Eli as his QB, no less) in 7 of the last 8 games last year.
Maybe McAddo was early on realizing that Eli was losing his fastball, but Mac never realized that he never had one.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
That's ridiculous. This is the same nonsense bandied about with regards to fixing culture, signing Solder to stabilize the line, signing washed up vets to stabilize the locker room, hiring an adult in Shurmur, hiring a GM who understands the Giants Way.
The Giants need to hire a head coach and general manager who have the intelligence, experience, and self awareness to compete in a rapidly more analytical and technology driven game.
The goal isn't stable. It's to win a fucking championship.
Quote:
This franchise needs a stabilizing force.
We've swung and missed twice. We are going to flounder in futility until we get a real head coach in here.
We've tried twice with the HC/Playcaller hot coordinator route. It's failed.
We need a REAL HC. Rivera isn't the sexy pick or the next big thing, but he's reliable and solid and fits the bill.
That's ridiculous. This is the same nonsense bandied about with regards to fixing culture, signing Solder to stabilize the line, signing washed up vets to stabilize the locker room, hiring an adult in Shurmur, hiring a GM who understands the Giants Way.
The Giants need to hire a head coach and general manager who have the intelligence, experience, and self awareness to compete in a rapidly more analytical and technology driven game.
The goal isn't stable. It's to win a fucking championship.
No, it's reality. What's nonsense, or a better phrase would be "much longer odds of happening, is that some unproven guy is going to come up and change the entire way of doing business successfully.
For every Sean McVay there are 100 Chip Kelly's. Even Doug Pederson's magic appeal is wearing off already. Who's the guy that was supposed to be next in Chicago? Nagy? He was the next big thing too.
No, you need to be STABLE before you win championships. You need a solid core to build upon.
Crawl before you walk.
Quote:
See you think it’s about slandering Eli, it’s not. It’s about pointing out one of the reasons the last time we went for a hot coordinator it failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry it’s the truth.
Or you could point out that McAdoo's scheme was hot garbage. Complete vanilla that even Mahomes TODAY would struggle with. They made the playoffs in 2016 because the defense played out of its mind.
Meanwhile, your "hot coordinator" couldn't manage an offense to score more than 20 points in 19 of the 29 games he coached, something Shurmur did (with Eli as his QB, no less) in 7 of the last 8 games last year.
Maybe McAddo was early on realizing that Eli was losing his fastball, but Mac never realized that he never had one.
Nobody said McAdoo wasn’t flawed. But we shouldn’t avoid the hot coordinator because one with a handicapped roster failed.
Quote:
In comment 14702279 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 14702269 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
know much about Ron Rivera, but I'm not thrilled with the concept of hiring someone who just got fired for not adapting to modern trends.
This is a serious question because I don't know. What is universally known as the modern way? Analytics? Analytics is a very general term. Are all teams using analytics the same way?
Besides the Ravens who are clearly doing things unconventionally around a run first QB on a level that we haven't seen since Mike Vick and the stories about the Ivy League kid calling down to Harbaugh.
What modern trends are the Vikings, Saints, Packers, Texans, Cowboys, 49ers and Seahawks? It seems to me those are a bunch of the good and very good teams in this league who are winning a bunch of different ways.
I think you're asking a much larger question. But it is rumored that one of the reasons why Rivera was let go was because of a resistance to whatever level of analytics the Panthers wanted to use. So even if they're not all using some level of analytics equally, the rumors are that Rivera was reluctant to use the level of analytics that his own team felt was appropriate.
Add that to Resume Dave's air keyboard routine, and I think you'd have to be drowning in the kool-aid to not have at least a little bit of reservation about DG and RR leading the 21st century operations of this franchise.
So Rivera is a dinosaur yet his team played in a Super Bowl 4 years ago? Went to the playoffs 2 years ago and one of his long-time assistants is doing awesome in Buffalo where they lost forever.
Ok.
No one is saying that embracing analytics is required to win or that you can't win in spite of a disregard for the value of analytics. But they do have a very real value and several teams are using analytics in some form or fashion to an extent that appears - from an outsider's vantage point - to exceed the level to which the Giants use them.
If used properly, they can provide a competitive edge. If used adequately, they can help teams keep up with the pack. If ignored entirely, it's not a death knell but it is an unnecessary willingness to invite a disadvantage into the equation.
Analytics, at its core, is just data. Which is just information. Why anyone feels like it's a smart move to have a front office - and potentially coaching staff - that is in any way reluctant to use additional information (and trust it) is beyond me.
Why the fuck would any fan encourage their team to knowingly use less information than their competition?
And for the record, I'm not the one calling him a dinosaur - I'm merely repeating what the rumors are surrounding his termination. The team wants to go with a coach with a more modern approach and willingness to embrace analytics. If that doesn't read to you that THEY feel like Rivera has some antiquated elements in his approach and an unwillingness to utilize data, I don't know what to tell you.