I have been reading a ton of posts about Ron Rivera's poor season to season w-l record and # of winning seasons. Some of those are correct in a vacuum but, take a deeper look here.
2011- 6-10 (first year as coach) PS, in his second stint as a HC went 5-11 with us in his first year. Bill Parcells went 3-12-1 in his first season as a HC.
2012- 7-9 improved over his first year. They had a number of close losses throughout the season (just needed to learn how to finish-sound familiar? Well they did learn and won 5 out of their last 6 games. Momentum carried into the next season.
2013- 12-4 They started the season 1 -3 (win #1 was blowing us out 38-0) and finished 12-4. That marks three straight seasons of improvement in record.
2014- 7-8-1 (though they won the division). In an odd change of events they started this season 2-0. They were 3-8-1 at one point and won their last 4 games to finish 7-8-1. Keep in mind they won a playoff game this season too. Wouildn't any of us be thrilled if the Giants had gone on a roll and made the playoffs at 7-8-1 or 7-9 (a possibility for the NFC East this season) and went on to win a playoff game?
2015- 15-1 with a dominating regular season capped off by a run to the SB. They lost to Peyton Manning and more specifically the Broncos defense. How can this be seen as a negative? We beat an undefeated Pats team in the SB, does that make Bill B a failure?
2016- 6-10 Coming off a SB appearance they had some ups and downs and lost a number of very close games. Are they unique in the post SB appearance blues? Go back and look at the Giants 87, 91, 2001 alone for that answer.
2017- 11-5 another winning season and playoff appearance. They lost a close game in New Orleans in the playoffs.
2018- 7-9 season but with a number of close losses. Keep in mind, they were somewhat handcuffed by Newton's shoulder issue that really caused a major decline in his play. They still finished at 7-9 . Keep in mind those 7 wins equal all the wins Pat Shurmur has over the last two seasons.
2019- 5-7 and honestly I think this might be one of Rivera's better seasons. He had a clearly limited and injured Cam Newton starting at QB. He had to get Newton off the field and the PR around all of that couldn't have been easy. They lost a tight game to the Rams (with Newton at QB) and lost a tight game against TB where Turner clearly had to overcome the fact that Newton couldn't hit fucking a fucking pillow laying in bed.. So with an UDFA QB the Panthers are 5-5. They were 5-1 with the UDFA and clearly he has hit a wall. The new Owner of the Panthers wants his stamp on the team and that probably includes letting Newton go. Think about the timing of the firing. It makes it a lot easier to let your successful HC go at 5-7 than it would be if they finished 7-9 or 8-8 with an UDFA at QB. Tepper wants his team and his staff. This is clearing the decks early as a playoff spot was pretty unlikely and keeps any possible questions about should or shouldn't he fire Rivera off the table.
I think Rivera, with a stud OC ( Turner and his son) and a stud DC (Dan Quinn perhaps???) could turn this franchise around quickly.
Thankyoueli : 12/4/2019 9:45 am : link : reply
And your "cOnTeXt"
He's a "retread" and he's clearly stuck in "the giant way" of doing things (somehow).
There are 3 kinds of coaches I dont want. Ones with no head coaching experience, coaches who have a 500 or below record, and MOST of all coaches who have a winning record.
If not, you are a fucking moron. You don't want a winning coach?
The whole story with Coughlin and Eli is that we will forever be grateful to them for winning us those 2 super bowls, and 2005-2012 was easily my favorite run as a Giants fan in my entire life, but it was BECAUSE OF those 2 SB wins. Take those 8 playoff wins away and Coughlin really did not have a very good career here. It's not typically the case that a guy has a mediocre record overall but then randomly has 2 super bowl wins, but Coughlin was a rare case, and I'm not saying that takes anything away from his legacy AT ALL, I'm just saying his path while Giant HC was a rare one.
So I would shy away from pointing out things like "well look, Rivera went 7-8-1 and went to the playoffs, just like Coughlin went 8-8 and went to the playoffs! So I think we'd be pretty happy with another Tom Coughlin, right??" Well we didn't love Coughlin for his 8-8 playoff year, we loved him for his 2 super bowl wins, those were the wins that made him special in our hearts, but it's ludicrous to just say "well yeah coach xyz is mediocre, so was Coughlin, and he won us 2 super bowls!" Typically mediocrity is a sign of more mediocrity, not a sign of 2 SB wins, but Coughlin was literally the exception that proved the rule.
Leg of Theismann : 9:14 pm : link : reply
are viewed a positive thing.
The whole story with Coughlin and Eli is that we will forever be grateful to them for winning us those 2 super bowls, and 2005-2012 was easily my favorite run as a Giants fan in my entire life, but it was BECAUSE OF those 2 SB wins. Take those 8 playoff wins away and Coughlin really did not have a very good career here.
We all know the 2 SB wins, but it is like some of you blocked from memory the fact we competed many years. We weren't below .500 from 2005 to 2012. That's 8 years in a row.
But yet, we'll hear daily about how the Giants are one of the worst teams in the league.
The whole story of Coughlin is by nearly every metric, his tenure was very good. It should be looked at as a positive thing, but as your posts points out, it isn't looked at that way..
Decide for yourself if it is because of stupidity or ignorance.
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In comment 14702497 christian said:
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These two are sure getting a lot of burn for getting their ass kicked in the Super Bowl, and then progressively declining to the point of being fired.
I wonder what Jim Fassel and Ernie are up to.
You could have said the same about Coughlin. Probably did, unless you are too young to remember that transition. I know bw was spouting that same stale Giants Way line back then, while propping up Dan Snyder.
Coughlin took a year of self reflection, consulted, and came to the Giants with a sharp POV on how to build the program.
If Rivera were to do the same, that would benefit him greatly. He's at then end of a successful, and then progressively failing run. He's literally getting fired because ownership doesn't think he's a progressive and relevant coach.
If he (and honestly Gettleman) spent some time assessing the landscape and had a plan to combine what he's good at with what's required now to run a competitive football program in the next 5 years, he'd be a good a candidate.
Dropping him into the job with Resume Dave just to get the band back together is sloppy.
I mean, you're awesome at guessing the ridiculous things the Giants will do, so you're probably spot on that this will happen.
Ha ha. This simply may be the funniest comment I have read this season.
Kudos...
The whole story of Coughlin is by nearly every metric, his tenure was very good. It should be looked at as a positive thing, but as your posts points out, it isn't looked at that way..
You took half a sentence I wrote and based on that said that my post implies that I don't look at Coughlin's tenure here as a "positive thing", and then called me stupid and/or ignorant.
Literally all I said was that *if you take away those 8 playoff wins (i.e. those 2 super bowls)*, Coughlin didn't have that great of a career here. How could you argue against this? In his other 10 seasons (besides the 2 SBs) he didn't win a single playoff game, so of course it wouldn't have been a good career. But of course the goal is to win the super bowl and he did that twice and therefore is one of the greatest Giants coaches of all time. My post was meant like 99% to be praising Coughlin. I even said those 8 years were my favorite years as a Giants fan and after what you quoted me on I went on to say none of that takes away from his great legacy here.
It wasn't meant to be bashing Coughlin in any way, he's still probably my favorite Giants coach and I DO NOT think those super bowl runs were flukes. I was simply saying that drawing comparisons to Coughlin's record really only makes sense if you are specifically talking postseason and super bowl record (and specifically in those 2 years). A lot of coaches have had TC's lifetime regular season winning %, most of them never won a super bowl though.
I'll put it this way: It's like people who say "well Tom Brady was a 6th round pick" as evidence for why this or that QB taken in later rounds will have a great career. Brady was a rare gem, and was the exception that proves the rule. Coughlin I believe was a rare gem who wasn't necessarily a genius HC but he did know how to get the best out of his teams when it mattered most, and that's a HOF trait unto itself. But we don't have evidence that Rivera has that trait and simply comparing his record in this year or that year to Coughlin doesn't necessarily mean he is going to have that Coughlin trait.
Remember nearly every coaches run ends badly...it's the nature of the business if they don't skip town like Bill did after the '90 season.
He was a coach there for almost a decade. You'd think at least once he'd be able to have two winning years in a row.
I too find "lots of close loses" a GIANT concern.
One of the strengths of the better coaches is precisely their ability to win close games. Parcels was masterful at this, though it drove me crazy, because part of his method was overall conservatism blended with unpredictable risk taking.
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Screw you
Thankyoueli : 12/4/2019 9:45 am : link : reply
And your "cOnTeXt"
He's a "retread" and he's clearly stuck in "the giant way" of doing things (somehow).
There are 3 kinds of coaches I dont want. Ones with no head coaching experience, coaches who have a 500 or below record, and MOST of all coaches who have a winning record.
If not, you are a fucking moron. You don't want a winning coach?
Uhhh.... Not very good at recognizing sarcasm for sure are you? I mean he literally excluded everybody. There isn't a single person on the planet that passes all those requirements and never will be.... By definition.
he will be the number one HC for any team to get
I can think of 7 teams off the top of my head that will do anything possible to get Rivera
If Gettleman and Rivera still have a good relationship this is a no brainer