-Now shows the draft pick # / the FA$ / and picks received
-higher: Slayton, Golden, Love, Peppers
-lower: Hill, Carter, Beal, Williams
This does NOT include Eli or Shurmur as it is debatable whether that was DG or Mara. I personally believe DG pitched Mara that he could retool around Eli. Whether he actually believed it or said the necessary to be hired, I doubt we'll ever know. If DG legitimately misjudged the prospects, then the grade would obviously be much much much lower.
I know I get heat for my Barkley rating. I'm sticking with that for the cost of 2nd overall vs trading back or other higher value position players. But even if you make that a 10 - we've seen enough from that 2018 draft at this point to call it weak.
I know many blame the coaching staff. There could be a purge, or positional/coordinator changes. Either way the owners must still understand the talent gap that exists on the field week after week.
sure - it's subjective. But where do you specifically disagree?
I want to hear from the DG defenders - crickets - because there is no defense. He has been below average as a GM.
its VERY possible mara wanted to build around eli and have one last run, hence the decision to sign some vets to try and get as much talent as possible. it forces DGs hand to sign guys like solder and trade for ogletree.
as far as martin, omameh, etc. he needed to fill out a VERY depleted roster and was hoping it would click for one of these guys and they would produce. people think roster building is like madden where you can rip off the CPU on trades and shit. he has completely turned over the roster and the FACT is young kids need time to develop. Reese drafted like shit for 6 years outside of round 1. do you know what that does to a roster? lets look at the guys DG purged?
OBJ-average at best year....crying already....wants out of Cleveland. we got a young safety in peppers who i like very much and with some other pieces around him, i think he will be the leader of the defense. we also added lawerence who is a pretty stout DL and will be a nice piece of the front 7 going forward. we also got ximenes who has struggled, but what do you expect from a FIRST year player from a small school who was draft in the late rounds...
vernon- has he done anything this year? isnt he hurt(again) right now? we got a young guard who is a solid piece for the OL going forward.
hart-LOL
flowers- IDC what PFF says, the dude is dumpster juice and he was a pain in the ass moron here. it wont be long before the skins hate him too (side note: i root for people, so i hope he gets it together for his sake)
collins- LOL. 85 million yea kiss my ass. i watched an angle he took last week vs carolina, it was EMBARRASSING for a run first defender. i LOVED him, in fact, i screamed and yelled in excitement when we trade to the #1 pick on day two because i knew it was for him. no way he is worth 85 mill.
Snacks- aging player with bad knees, ill take the younger and cheaper version that can push the pocket some
the fact is, DG came here and this roster was a joke...we dont know the pressure put on him from the Front office. mara could have said, eli starts and we build around one last run. Clearly DG saw in barkley something that he thought he was a top talent(he STILL is, our OL play has been bad and i expect a heavy investment this offseason, plus he was hurt and it doesnt help playing with a coach who just doesnt use you properly). I think Rivera is a good hire, especially if he can bring norv with him(someone who actually knows how to utilize a back like SB). I think DG has done a decent job trying to turn over the roster, clear the malcontents, add youth all while making ownership happy and trying to field a competitive team. i think if you sat him down, he would be honest about knowing the roster needed work and that time an patience was needed, but its a business. they have to try and sell tickets and they felt adding some vet talent would help. we wont ever love every move and not every move will work out, but his drafts have been solid. you guys are expecting HoFs out of round 3, it just doesnt happen often. I am excited to see his third draft and what a true head coach can do. I also like the idea of a head coach NOT calling plays. i think there is a lot to focus on, so glad RR comes with an experienced OC if he is indeed the guy.
I dont LOVE DG, but i understand the shit he came into and i respect him trying to help the org do what they can to give eli one last miracle season, but it just wasnt in the cards. the rebuild is under way and we have some young talent across the board including a franchise QB(seemingly) and a stud RB. we now need an impact defender up front(hello chase young)
patience fans....lets all take a breathe. Things will get turned around!
its VERY possible mara wanted to build around eli and have one last run, hence the decision to sign some vets to try and get as much talent as possible. it forces DGs hand to sign guys like solder and trade for ogletree.
as far as martin, omameh, etc. he needed to fill out a VERY depleted roster and was hoping it would click for one of these guys and they would produce. people think roster building is like madden where you can rip off the CPU on trades and shit. he has completely turned over the roster and the FACT is young kids need time to develop. Reese drafted like shit for 6 years outside of round 1. do you know what that does to a roster? lets look at the guys DG purged?
OBJ-average at best year....crying already....wants out of Cleveland. we got a young safety in peppers who i like very much and with some other pieces around him, i think he will be the leader of the defense. we also added lawerence who is a pretty stout DL and will be a nice piece of the front 7 going forward. we also got ximenes who has struggled, but what do you expect from a FIRST year player from a small school who was draft in the late rounds...
vernon- has he done anything this year? isnt he hurt(again) right now? we got a young guard who is a solid piece for the OL going forward.
hart-LOL
flowers- IDC what PFF says, the dude is dumpster juice and he was a pain in the ass moron here. it wont be long before the skins hate him too (side note: i root for people, so i hope he gets it together for his sake)
collins- LOL. 85 million yea kiss my ass. i watched an angle he took last week vs carolina, it was EMBARRASSING for a run first defender. i LOVED him, in fact, i screamed and yelled in excitement when we trade to the #1 pick on day two because i knew it was for him. no way he is worth 85 mill.
Snacks- aging player with bad knees, ill take the younger and cheaper version that can push the pocket some
the fact is, DG came here and this roster was a joke...we dont know the pressure put on him from the Front office. mara could have said, eli starts and we build around one last run. Clearly DG saw in barkley something that he thought he was a top talent(he STILL is, our OL play has been bad and i expect a heavy investment this offseason, plus he was hurt and it doesnt help playing with a coach who just doesnt use you properly). I think Rivera is a good hire, especially if he can bring norv with him(someone who actually knows how to utilize a back like SB). I think DG has done a decent job trying to turn over the roster, clear the malcontents, add youth all while making ownership happy and trying to field a competitive team. i think if you sat him down, he would be honest about knowing the roster needed work and that time an patience was needed, but its a business. they have to try and sell tickets and they felt adding some vet talent would help. we wont ever love every move and not every move will work out, but his drafts have been solid. you guys are expecting HoFs out of round 3, it just doesnt happen often. I am excited to see his third draft and what a true head coach can do. I also like the idea of a head coach NOT calling plays. i think there is a lot to focus on, so glad RR comes with an experienced OC if he is indeed the guy.
I dont LOVE DG, but i understand the shit he came into and i respect him trying to help the org do what they can to give eli one last miracle season, but it just wasnt in the cards. the rebuild is under way and we have some young talent across the board including a franchise QB(seemingly) and a stud RB. we now need an impact defender up front(hello chase young)
patience fans....lets all take a breathe. Things will get turned around!
Exactly
its VERY possible mara wanted to build around eli and have one last run, hence the decision to sign some vets to try and get as much talent as possible. it forces DGs hand to sign guys like solder and trade for ogletree.
Let's assume that's true, for the sake of argument. What that means is that Gettleman has so little pride that took a job that forced him to do things he wouldn't have otherwise done in evaluating and constructing the 2018 Giants.
The only alternative is that Gettleman agreed with the Mara philosophy.
Neither reflects well on Gettleman, or Mara.
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YOU have NO CLUE what goes on behind the scenes.
its VERY possible mara wanted to build around eli and have one last run, hence the decision to sign some vets to try and get as much talent as possible. it forces DGs hand to sign guys like solder and trade for ogletree.
Let's assume that's true, for the sake of argument. What that means is that Gettleman has so little pride that took a job that forced him to do things he wouldn't have otherwise done in evaluating and constructing the 2018 Giants.
The only alternative is that Gettleman agreed with the Mara philosophy.
Neither reflects well on Gettleman, or Mara.
pride? bro...this is about MONEY. DG is paid very well and who knows. the thought could have been one last run and if it fails, we rip it down and go after a franchise QB....i mean, we are fans. we dont know....my simple point is we cannot change anything. lets move forward. we have some young talent, we have a seemingly franchise QB and a stud RB. our secondary is young, but i am excited to see if any of them pan out. the next thing is to hire a proven coach(i kinda want a defensive guy)
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In comment 14702726 BleedBlue said:
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YOU have NO CLUE what goes on behind the scenes.
its VERY possible mara wanted to build around eli and have one last run, hence the decision to sign some vets to try and get as much talent as possible. it forces DGs hand to sign guys like solder and trade for ogletree.
Let's assume that's true, for the sake of argument. What that means is that Gettleman has so little pride that took a job that forced him to do things he wouldn't have otherwise done in evaluating and constructing the 2018 Giants.
The only alternative is that Gettleman agreed with the Mara philosophy.
Neither reflects well on Gettleman, or Mara.
pride? bro...this is about MONEY. DG is paid very well and who knows. the thought could have been one last run and if it fails, we rip it down and go after a franchise QB....i mean, we are fans. we dont know....my simple point is we cannot change anything. lets move forward. we have some young talent, we have a seemingly franchise QB and a stud RB. our secondary is young, but i am excited to see if any of them pan out. the next thing is to hire a proven coach(i kinda want a defensive guy)
I guess you're right, I left out "money" as a reason Gettleman took the job despite (hypothesized) philosophical differences with the owner.
That's reassuring.
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In comment 14702780 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 14702726 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
YOU have NO CLUE what goes on behind the scenes.
its VERY possible mara wanted to build around eli and have one last run, hence the decision to sign some vets to try and get as much talent as possible. it forces DGs hand to sign guys like solder and trade for ogletree.
Let's assume that's true, for the sake of argument. What that means is that Gettleman has so little pride that took a job that forced him to do things he wouldn't have otherwise done in evaluating and constructing the 2018 Giants.
The only alternative is that Gettleman agreed with the Mara philosophy.
Neither reflects well on Gettleman, or Mara.
pride? bro...this is about MONEY. DG is paid very well and who knows. the thought could have been one last run and if it fails, we rip it down and go after a franchise QB....i mean, we are fans. we dont know....my simple point is we cannot change anything. lets move forward. we have some young talent, we have a seemingly franchise QB and a stud RB. our secondary is young, but i am excited to see if any of them pan out. the next thing is to hire a proven coach(i kinda want a defensive guy)
I guess you're right, I left out "money" as a reason Gettleman took the job despite (hypothesized) philosophical differences with the owner.
That's reassuring.
its not the sole reason he took the job. i assume he loves doing what he does. point is, mara is the boss....maybe he too wanted to do the right thing and give eli a last crack at it, but point is...who cares? its over and done with. i just laugh at all of these people on a fan forum bitching and moaning and saying DG is garbage, etc etc. we have no idea what happens behind closed doors...i dont think he has done a bad job. the players play and the coaches coach. we havent done much either of those the last two years. hopefully another draft and a solid FA period helps things
really because when he came we needed a coach, an OL, LBs, ERs.
Now we need a coach, an OL, LBs, ERs, and WRs
secondly...the record isnt fair to put all on DG. shurmur is a pretty bad coach. do we always pin a poor season under TC on reese? i dont think we should. players play. coaches coach.
its year two of a rebuild. dead cap was to get rid of the malcontents. its pretty simple. we are in a much better cap situation this coming offseason....
Except MIN with a decent line and decent WRs excelled in Shurmur's offense.
Difference is DG:
100% DG's line and
100% DG's WRs (he gave Shep the extension)
so no, I don't think DG has provided a talented roster.
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There was a ton of roster turnover and i think at the time everyone was happy for it. flowers wouldn't play any other position but left tackle then RT on his way out the door. DG did just give up on talent, he let the coaching staff try to do their jobs. When they couldn't he acted. He's whiffed and he's hit. Not sure what GM in a two year time span hasn't. I think you need a competant coaching staff to put players in the best position to play. Fact is Eli sucked in Shurmurs Offense CAUSE EVERYONE SUCKS IN SHURMURS OFFENSE. Don't know how he had success as an OC at the other places, but if youre telling me that because Case Keenum had success with him Gettleman sucks i need to see your math.
Except MIN with a decent line and decent WRs excelled in Shurmur's offense.
Difference is DG:
100% DG's line and
100% DG's WRs (he gave Shep the extension)
so no, I don't think DG has provided a talented roster.
diggs and thilen is just "decent" are you crazy? thats better than decent. our OL is doo doo in comparison too. FYI, i dont think there is anything wrong with tate and shep. slayton is looking like a solid DG pick too. i think those three will be solid once we can get them all on the field together. people forget how injured the offense was this season...
secondly...the record isnt fair to put all on DG. shurmur is a pretty bad coach. do we always pin a poor season under TC on reese? i dont think we should. players play. coaches coach.
its year two of a rebuild. dead cap was to get rid of the malcontents. its pretty simple. we are in a much better cap situation this coming offseason....
Golden is skipping town - book it - we need two ERs bc DG got a JAG in Lorenzo at #66, and Ximines will be situational / rotational unless he adds 25LBs.
DG spent $35mm, a 4th and 7th for our last ILB - who is terrible - so no, don't have confidence in DG there.
Tate - he might be gone next year since PEDs voided his gtee. Either way, he's no better than a 3 long term. So we need two.
OL - DG spent the #34, and $42mm/year for HIS Line, inclusive of deadcap. so no, don't have confidence in DG there.
diggs and thilen is just "decent" are you crazy? thats better than decent. our OL is doo doo in comparison too. FYI, i dont think there is anything wrong with tate and shep. slayton is looking like a solid DG pick too. i think those three will be solid once we can get them all on the field together. people forget how injured the offense was this season...
either
-they are decent and we are shit
-or they're excellent, and we're average.
Either way, they are much much more talented relatively.
Something DG failed to produce talent wise.
1) DG hired Shurmur
2) yes, Reese provided Coughlin shit to work with. If you want to say that TC was just as involved in drafting, then the blame also lies with TC. But that's not the case with DG. THIS IS HIS ROSTER.
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.secondly...the record isnt fair to put all on DG. shurmur is a pretty bad coach. do we always pin a poor season under TC on reese? i dont think we should. players play. coaches coach.
1) DG hired Shurmur
2) yes, Reese provided Coughlin shit to work with. If you want to say that TC was just as involved in drafting, then the blame also lies with TC. But that's not the case with DG. THIS IS HIS ROSTER.
were you in the room? how do we know for a FACT DG hired shurmur alone? you speak in absolutes like you know, but fact is, we dont.
So because I wasn't in the room, I should give him the benefit of the doubt that all that 'adult' HC crap he fed us was just spin? The DG guys are very happy to point the finger at everyone else - Mara, Shurmur, Reese. At the end of the day, the buck stops with DG.
Olgletree, Solder, Bethea, Omameh, Martin, Stewart, all have more than two years.
$47mm/year's worth of experience.
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No, not when discussing player with less than two years at this point.
Olgletree, Solder, Bethea, Omameh, Martin, Stewart, all have more than two years.
$47mm/year's worth of experience.
1. im not saying point finger elsewhere, but you are blaming DG for shurmur coaching like shit
2. solder was quality when he was signed. everyone wants to ignore pats made him an offer too. we had ZERO stability along the OL and he figured a quality LT would help as it isnt easy to find(still isnt in todays nfl)
3. omameh, martin and bethea are stop gaps. he cut ties with omameh right away(he was hoping things would click for him) not every position is going to be a high priced allstar. bethea can still play, he is poor in coverage and i am sure he sees that....its not like he didnt draft DBs that will replace bethea and older vets in secondary. stewart is just a depth signing as was martin. im sure he saw martin as a rotational guy who can put up some sacks...didnt work out, what GM bats 1000 in his first two seasons? i think we need to wait some before we tar and feather DG
4. ogletree isnt a horrible player and at the time, we didnt have a single LBer worth anything. i liked the acquisition as i felt he could be a guy to hold it down for the defense as a captain. didnt work out, it happens. i still dont think he is a horrible player, but he cannot be relied on as the guy on the defense.
1. im not saying point finger elsewhere, but you are blaming DG for shurmur coaching like shit
2. solder was quality when he was signed. everyone wants to ignore pats made him an offer too. we had ZERO stability along the OL and he figured a quality LT would help as it isnt easy to find(still isnt in todays nfl)
3. omameh, martin and bethea are stop gaps. he cut ties with omameh right away(he was hoping things would click for him) not every position is going to be a high priced allstar. bethea can still play, he is poor in coverage and i am sure he sees that....its not like he didnt draft DBs that will replace bethea and older vets in secondary. stewart is just a depth signing as was martin. im sure he saw martin as a rotational guy who can put up some sacks...didnt work out, what GM bats 1000 in his first two seasons? i think we need to wait some before we tar and feather DG
4. ogletree isnt a horrible player and at the time, we didnt have a single LBer worth anything. i liked the acquisition as i felt he could be a guy to hold it down for the defense as a captain. didnt work out, it happens. i still dont think he is a horrible player, but he cannot be relied on as the guy on the defense.
1) and you blame PS for the talent. Not defending him but he's been asked to make chicken soup from chicken shit
2) he was an OK system guy - made better by the QB - never a pro bowler - and no matter what you say, the Pats said "you got what??? OK, we'll send you a Xmas Card"
3) There were plenty of other available alternatives as stop gaps - yet DG chose to pay these stop gaps - and they sucked.
4) ogletree is horrible. Rams gave him the love and immediately said, what the fuck did we do. Pasted DG on this trade. Olgletree has proven DG wrong every game since.
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YOU have NO CLUE what goes on behind the scenes.
its VERY possible mara wanted to build around eli and have one last run, hence the decision to sign some vets to try and get as much talent as possible. it forces DGs hand to sign guys like solder and trade for ogletree.
Let's assume that's true, for the sake of argument. What that means is that Gettleman has so little pride that took a job that forced him to do things he wouldn't have otherwise done in evaluating and constructing the 2018 Giants.
The only alternative is that Gettleman agreed with the Mara philosophy.
Neither reflects well on Gettleman, or Mara.
False dilemma alert!
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In comment 14702726 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
YOU have NO CLUE what goes on behind the scenes.
its VERY possible mara wanted to build around eli and have one last run, hence the decision to sign some vets to try and get as much talent as possible. it forces DGs hand to sign guys like solder and trade for ogletree.
Let's assume that's true, for the sake of argument. What that means is that Gettleman has so little pride that took a job that forced him to do things he wouldn't have otherwise done in evaluating and constructing the 2018 Giants.
The only alternative is that Gettleman agreed with the Mara philosophy.
Neither reflects well on Gettleman, or Mara.
False dilemma alert!
Well I agree it's not quite as serious as the dilemmas regarding Gettleman's atrocious decision-making or asset management, but they're all ingredients in a stew of organizational incompetence.
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1. im not saying point finger elsewhere, but you are blaming DG for shurmur coaching like shit
2. solder was quality when he was signed. everyone wants to ignore pats made him an offer too. we had ZERO stability along the OL and he figured a quality LT would help as it isnt easy to find(still isnt in todays nfl)
3. omameh, martin and bethea are stop gaps. he cut ties with omameh right away(he was hoping things would click for him) not every position is going to be a high priced allstar. bethea can still play, he is poor in coverage and i am sure he sees that....its not like he didnt draft DBs that will replace bethea and older vets in secondary. stewart is just a depth signing as was martin. im sure he saw martin as a rotational guy who can put up some sacks...didnt work out, what GM bats 1000 in his first two seasons? i think we need to wait some before we tar and feather DG
4. ogletree isnt a horrible player and at the time, we didnt have a single LBer worth anything. i liked the acquisition as i felt he could be a guy to hold it down for the defense as a captain. didnt work out, it happens. i still dont think he is a horrible player, but he cannot be relied on as the guy on the defense.
1) and you blame PS for the talent. Not defending him but he's been asked to make chicken soup from chicken shit
2) he was an OK system guy - made better by the QB - never a pro bowler - and no matter what you say, the Pats said "you got what??? OK, we'll send you a Xmas Card"
3) There were plenty of other available alternatives as stop gaps - yet DG chose to pay these stop gaps - and they sucked.
4) ogletree is horrible. Rams gave him the love and immediately said, what the fuck did we do. Pasted DG on this trade. Olgletree has proven DG wrong every game since.
pats offered solder a deal lol...they clearly thought he was good enough. the OL play around the league was down. DG went after quality, its not his fault the guy just regressed over night....youre blaming DG for everything. solder falling apart is just shit luck. again the pats offered him a contract, so is BB wrong too?
It's a fabrication!!
This team has a lot of bad players that need to go.
Gettleman has been a disaster! Want proof?7-21 and in line for a top 2 pick this year.Too early to evaluate this years draft but early returns are not great. I have a question for the Gettleman defenders, if the Giants were to trade Daniel Jones today, do you think that they would receive a number one pick in return?
It's a fabrication!!
I think you’ve covered the market in arrogance for years now. And been wrong for years.
The KPI was an attempt at a detailed transactional analysis of this GM. Those are my scores. Feel free to fabricate your rebuttal - go on record - and be wrong again.
i'm with you. these people act like they've seen a successful tear down in there giants fan lifetime. george young was a process over a 5 seasons, thats on top of having guy who were on the team for 5-10 years already!
we don't even have guys on this team from 2014 lol
i swear its almost as if they're mad the mara's didn't consult them on who to hire and what to do with their franchise.
DG has blown up the roster now which was in cap hell, we got some good pieces in the meantime to build around. now we have a free agency period where we can grab some decent guys.
we just need a coach and thats coming. the Eli must play caveat is out the door.
you hire who makes themselves available. the only "whiff" you can say is Frank Reich who i don't believe we brought in at all.
who was the magical successful coach available in 2018???
Develop but he was given a dumpster fire and the
Coaching choice was a disaster .
I wouldn't mind Rivera but the Oline is a mess
we have cap space and high picks gonna keep the faith
for now not much choice .
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And somehow that's not on him?
you hire who makes themselves available. the only "whiff" you can say is Frank Reich who i don't believe we brought in at all.
who was the magical successful coach available in 2018???
Just because you and I cant name someone who was available doesnt mean anything. You an expert in coaching ability? I'm not. Got a way to know which assistants could make good coaches? I dont.
“In terms of team building, I’m old-fashioned,” Gettleman said. “Offense scores points, defense wins championships. … You got to run the ball. You got to stop the run. You got to pressure the passer.”
We can't run, pressure the passer or stop the run when it matters. Total failure.
And line play rules. He learned that here from Tom Coughlin.
“He said big men allow you to compete, and that’s really just so true,” Gettleman said.
That leads him to the biggest thing he feels he needs to fix.
“We’ve got to fix the O-line,” Gettleman said. “Let’s be honest.”
The line still sucks sweaty balls. You knew it was THE problem, you tried to fix it. You failed.
Culture is important to Gettleman. Team togetherness can lead to winning games.
“These guys have to know when they step on the field that the guy right, the guy left, the guy behind, the guy in front, has got their back,” Gettleman said, “and we’re going to build that kind of a culture.”
I was behind the "culture" fix but the results are still shitty.
He said his managerial style is based on three tenets — “communication,” “collaboration” and “brutal honesty.”
I think Mara and Tisch need to show him what brutal honesty looks like.
First of all, you have no idea what DG could have gotten from trading down and what the offers on the table were. So you how can you give a rating based no a potential trade that could have been done that you have no access to the information on?
Secondly, a 4? Seriously? Are you just basing that rating on the last 3 games or something? He's playing hurt and in a slump, but he was the OROY last year and most would consider him the best player in the 2018 draft. We could have done a lot worse than that. And if we hadn't traded down, who are we taking? Quenton Nelson? Would Nelson (instead of Barkley) have somehow magically made this team 10-6 this year just because he's an OL?
We couldn't draft an entire offensive line with the #2 pick, we had to pick one player, and no one player was going to save this franchise. For the most part yes RBs are better taken past the 1st round (except in *special cases* like this one), but we tried going FA or middle-round RB for half a decade and look at the awful results we had until we finally drafted Barkley. Fans seem to forget about our RB struggles before we had Barkley.
The amount of hate the Barkley pick gets just because he's a damn RB... and people have this imagined scenario where we could have traded down and gotten 3 1st round picks and then drafted a guy who would have served just as well as Barkley in the 4th round. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that is all just speculation. Barkley when healthy is maybe the best RB in the league, that's real.
First of all, you have no idea what DG could have gotten from trading down and what the offers on the table were. So you how can you give a rating based no a potential trade that could have been done that you have no access to the information on?
We know it would be no worse than what the Colts got... no?
The barkley return vs the cost of the 2nd overall. Stand by it. [/quote]