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Cowherd: Giants/Rivera a perfect fit

Sean : 12/4/2019 12:33 pm
1. Prior success with Gettleman
2. After 2 failed offensive coaches, should go defense
3. Possibility of Chase Young
4. Suggests Rivera would like to work with Jones

Fire away.
...  
BleedBlue : 12/4/2019 12:36 pm : link
no complaints here. finally have an actual HC. shurmur and mcadoo are OCs. im good with a true head coach and im excited about the thought of getting back to DEFENSE being a priority
It's pretty logical and obvious.  
Britt in VA : 12/4/2019 12:36 pm : link
.
Almost  
ArizonaBlue : 12/4/2019 12:37 pm : link
makes too much sense
If it doesnt happen  
cjac : 12/4/2019 12:39 pm : link
i will be very very surprised
I agree also  
MattyKid : 12/4/2019 12:40 pm : link
But you can't make chicken salad...
Fire Shurmur today, hire Rivera  
SGMen : 12/4/2019 12:42 pm : link
Let the OC lead the offense the rest of the way. It sends a message that losing is unacceptable and maybe allows Rivera to get to know the staff and players a bit.

I am 99% sure Rivera is our next HC.
I donít think it should be a given  
Oscar : 12/4/2019 12:43 pm : link
This organization moves forward with Gettleman. Itís time for a full examination of how things are run. I sure as hell donít want them hiring a coach because heís a good fit with Gettleman. I want them to hire the best fucking coach they can conceive of.

I think the first thing Mara and Tisch SHOULD do is find the best possible person to manage the football operation independently. Empower that person to handle everything else as they see fit, then step away. Go to the beach or something, take up golf, travel the world.

Tisch would be fine with this I assume. Sadly, Mara is a legacy kid who does not appear to have anything in his life besides running the Giants so heís unlikely to give up control. Heís Jerry Jones with better PR and a worse eye for talent.
If the Giants continue doing what seems logical to them  
Go Terps : 12/4/2019 12:45 pm : link
They'll continue to lose.
Snore  
JonC : 12/4/2019 12:46 pm : link
The type of hire I'd kill to avoid.
RE: If the Giants continue doing what seems logical to them  
GiantEgo : 12/4/2019 12:49 pm : link
In comment 14702792 Go Terps said:
Quote:
They'll continue to lose.


You really should checkout until the Mara's die off or sell the team.
Itís the perfect ďGiantsĒ hire..  
Sean : 12/4/2019 12:49 pm : link
We will see how much 10-34 since 2017 has impacted them.
Gettleman and Shurmur  
Mike from Ohio : 12/4/2019 12:50 pm : link
also made complete sense. They knew Gettleman well and Shurmur was a QB guru and we would be bringing in a young QB. Both moves were completely logical and predictable.

And so far both are turning out to be huge mistakes. But maybe if they continue doing the same thing over and over again, there is reason to expect a different outcome?
We also two nearby rivers...  
trueblueinpw : 12/4/2019 12:50 pm : link
You know, for his boat.
RE: Snore  
Jay on the Island : 12/4/2019 12:50 pm : link
In comment 14702794 JonC said:
Quote:
The type of hire I'd kill to avoid.

Who's on your wish list?
5.  
Pete in MD : 12/4/2019 12:52 pm : link
Already has a cutesy nickname that the New York tabloids will love to overuse.
I donít think Gettleman & Shurmur made sense..  
Sean : 12/4/2019 12:54 pm : link
Rivera does strike me as more of a Gettleman guy.
Might as well stop lookin.  
MOOPS : 12/4/2019 12:56 pm : link
The die is cast. Our savior has been dropped in our laps.
RE: Gettleman and Shurmur  
Gettledogman : 12/4/2019 12:59 pm : link
In comment 14702799 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
also made complete sense. They knew Gettleman well and Shurmur was a QB guru and we would be bringing in a young QB. Both moves were completely logical and predictable.

And so far both are turning out to be huge mistakes. But maybe if they continue doing the same thing over and over again, there is reason to expect a different outcome?



ANNND they got their next Franchise QB -so not all was lost.
Why wouldn't you interview  
Metnut : 12/4/2019 1:00 pm : link
all of the best candidates in good-faith before making a decision? It's not like Rivera is a top coach in this league who we have to jump on immediately.

Also, the connection to Gettleman is meaningless because after the past two seasons, he's a goner. We can't afford to let Gettleman run another draft or be in charge of our $60M in cap space. Another Solger/Ogeltree type of offseason and we're going to be in deep trouble even longer.

Rivera is worthy of an interview and if he can convince the new GM that he's the best for the job, then so be it, but if this is some sort of pre-ordained thing then it's the exact type of cronyism that's put us in this prolonged mess that we're in.
RE: RE: If the Giants continue doing what seems logical to them  
Go Terps : 12/4/2019 1:00 pm : link
In comment 14702797 GiantEgo said:
Quote:
In comment 14702792 Go Terps said:


Quote:


They'll continue to lose.



You really should checkout until the Mara's die off or sell the team.


Well it seems fairly reasonable, doesn't it? The Giants have employed a certain organizational methodology that, in the current NFL, has resulted in a 10-34 record the last three seasons. If they don't change the methodology, why would the results improve?
RE: Snore  
Leg of Theismann : 12/4/2019 1:04 pm : link
In comment 14702794 JonC said:
Quote:
The type of hire I'd kill to avoid.


Hahaha. I love JonC.

I agree-- and I think the Giants have been so bad for so long that a lot of posters are just desperate to get back to being mediocre (which is exactly what Rivera has been and would be).

Just because McAdoo and Shurmur were most-known as coordinators and ended up being failures here doesn't mean we should jump at hiring any available experienced HC who shakes free.
RE: RE: RE: If the Giants continue doing what seems logical to them  
Thankyoueli : 12/4/2019 1:07 pm : link
In comment 14702814 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14702797 GiantEgo said:


Quote:


In comment 14702792 Go Terps said:


Quote:


They'll continue to lose.



You really should checkout until the Mara's die off or sell the team.



Well it seems fairly reasonable, doesn't it? The Giants have employed a certain organizational methodology that, in the current NFL, has resulted in a 10-34 record the last three seasons. If they don't change the methodology, why would the results improve?


What exactly is this methodology and how exactly does Rivera fit into this methodology?

Are there parallels between he and our last 2 coaches? I dont see one thing he has in common with either of them...
RE: Why wouldn't you interview  
Leg of Theismann : 12/4/2019 1:11 pm : link
In comment 14702813 Metnut said:
Quote:
all of the best candidates in good-faith before making a decision? It's not like Rivera is a top coach in this league who we have to jump on immediately.

Also, the connection to Gettleman is meaningless because after the past two seasons, he's a goner. We can't afford to let Gettleman run another draft or be in charge of our $60M in cap space. Another Solger/Ogeltree type of offseason and we're going to be in deep trouble even longer.

Rivera is worthy of an interview and if he can convince the new GM that he's the best for the job, then so be it, but if this is some sort of pre-ordained thing then it's the exact type of cronyism that's put us in this prolonged mess that we're in.


I think both Shurmur and DG are examples of the "Peter Principle" where people are inevitably promoted one level above their level of competency. Shurmur is a fine coordinator and QB guru, not a good HC. DG is a fine scout and I don't think is bad at evaluating players in the draft, but I don't think he has a great feel for building a team based on a singular vision and coherent football philosophy.
RE: RE: Snore  
Giantz_comeback : 12/4/2019 1:12 pm : link
In comment 14702819 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 14702794 JonC said:


Quote:


The type of hire I'd kill to avoid.



Hahaha. I love JonC.

I agree-- and I think the Giants have been so bad for so long that a lot of posters are just desperate to get back to being mediocre (which is exactly what Rivera has been and would be).

Just because McAdoo and Shurmur were most-known as coordinators and ended up being failures here doesn't mean we should jump at hiring any available experienced HC who shakes free.


Outside of Jim Harbaugh hes one of the best choices available if you want PROVEN winning experience as a NFL HC.

No issue here unless we could have had Harbaugh but passed on him.
I  
cokeduplt : 12/4/2019 1:18 pm : link
Really want Rhule but would be ok with Rivera.
Thankyoueli  
Go Terps : 12/4/2019 1:21 pm : link
The answer to that question is multi-layered, but I'll boil it down to this:

Ownership and the front office is either unable or unwilling to objectively self-assess the organization's strengths and weaknesses. When things go bad they find a fall guy (you can play hopscotch with portraits of the patsies: Gilbride to Coughlin to McAdoo to Reese to Beckham/Collins/Harrison to Eli to Bettcher to Shurmur and soon to Gettleman). The level of competence and blame in the patsies varies and not every decision was wrong, but removing them never solves the fundamental problem that the organizational structure is deeply flawed. So they move from patsy to patsy, but the team continues to lose.

If they just hire Rivera to work with Gettleman, nothing really changes.
RE: RE: RE: Snore  
BleedBlue : 12/4/2019 1:21 pm : link
In comment 14702830 Giantz_comeback said:
Quote:
In comment 14702819 Leg of Theismann said:


Quote:


In comment 14702794 JonC said:


Quote:


The type of hire I'd kill to avoid.



Hahaha. I love JonC.

I agree-- and I think the Giants have been so bad for so long that a lot of posters are just desperate to get back to being mediocre (which is exactly what Rivera has been and would be).

Just because McAdoo and Shurmur were most-known as coordinators and ended up being failures here doesn't mean we should jump at hiring any available experienced HC who shakes free.



Outside of Jim Harbaugh hes one of the best choices available if you want PROVEN winning experience as a NFL HC.

No issue here unless we could have had Harbaugh but passed on him.


for all of the rivera is mediocre and fans are desperate for that...who is your pick? let me guess, you want to revolutinize the way we think and take a young guy. and if that fails? then what? we KNOW what we get from rivera. its like taking a steady paycheck vs trying to launch a new business. if it fails, your family doesnt eat. give me the safe route EVERY time when you have a young QB that needs molding and a defense that is young and in need of a revamping. people here always want the sexy, spicy hire. the fact is, i just want a fucking coach who has his head on and knows how to manage a locker room and football team. that guy is rivera. MANY teams will be after him. are they all "backwards" or "poor" thinking too?
In retrospect  
mittenedman : 12/4/2019 1:32 pm : link
all the hostility from Gilbride and TC was telling.

When KG was let go, he was irritated that he'd gone to management years back warning the OL was deteriorating. He always believed pass pro + a run game "if you keep him upright" was key and Eli could take you all the way. (And no that is not true of all QBs.) He then got blamed after the OL clunked out and Eli faltered. "They've figured out his system." KG famously retorted they haven't figured it out in 30 years. It killed TC to have to let KG go.

Fast forward to TC - the ultimate man of principle - unable to even shake Mara's hand in public at his closing press conference. Not hard to imagine what that was all about. Then remember Mara saying "we gave Tom more say than any coach we've ever had".

These 2 lifelong football guys were being ignored as the Super Bowl team Accorsi built started eroding.
Get a Great OC👍, sounds good.  
George from PA : 12/4/2019 1:34 pm : link
.
just part of the giant list  
Dankbeerman : 12/4/2019 1:37 pm : link
of guys who could do a better job then the incumbent
so the nicest thing  
bigbluehoya : 12/4/2019 1:41 pm : link
we can muster about Rivera is that we know what we're getting in him?

Prioritizing the avoidance of uncertainty grasping for familiarity / "known" entities is part of what plagues the decision-making.

We've been living the downside case for the better part of a decade. If anything, they shouldn't be scared by the unknown anymore and should be motivated to embrace new/different ideas to re-establish a mode of organizational operations that can support continued success and competitiveness.

Cowherd Suggests Rivera would like to work with Jones  
BlueVinnie : 12/4/2019 1:45 pm : link
Did he give any evidence to support this or is it pure speculation on Cowherd's part?
So last  
phil in arizona : 12/4/2019 1:47 pm : link
time we made a pretty drastic change. We switched the entire coaching staff, changed defensive schemes entirely, spent a year cycling through personnel, and somehow ended up in a worse spot.

If we hire Rivera, it might not be the worst idea to retain Shula and some of the offensive position coaches (obviously HH still needs to go). They've worked with each other before and it would provide some level of consistency for the young QB.
RE: so the nicest thing  
BleedBlue : 12/4/2019 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14702908 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
we can muster about Rivera is that we know what we're getting in him?

Prioritizing the avoidance of uncertainty grasping for familiarity / "known" entities is part of what plagues the decision-making.

We've been living the downside case for the better part of a decade. If anything, they shouldn't be scared by the unknown anymore and should be motivated to embrace new/different ideas to re-establish a mode of organizational operations that can support continued success and competitiveness.


new "ideas" doesnt mean good ideas. rivera has won in this league. add more talent and let a good coach with GOOD assistants go to work. everyone here wants to make this some insane mystery. build the right team with good chemsitry and a good, steady, smart coach and watch it work. this, oh we have to think differently is just peoples answer because we have sucked for so long and it HAS to be the way we think. MAYBE its the shit talent pool we had under reese? maybe its eli declining? maybe its the OL that has sucked for almost ten years? maybe its the fact that we havent been able to stay healthy for 5+? maybe its the fact we have had bozos as head coaches the last 4 seasons? there are a ton of moving parts here. there is ZERO correlation with the move of hiring macdoo and rivera. we tried the "hot" coordinator route. that didnt work. now i say we go for a steady presence and someone who i dunno actually has won as a HC in this league? again....please present another candidate if you think you have a better plan.

to me....

my list is

BB
Payton
John harbaugh
a reid


those four arent happening but what do they all have in common? they arent some hot, young candidate. they are fucking dinosaurs. BUT THEY WIN!!! why? because they know what it takes and they know how to run a team. we need that kind of presence and rivera is about as close as you will get when you look at whats available.
Cowherd is spot on...  
bw in dc : 12/4/2019 1:52 pm : link
It's not a perfect fit based on potential outcomes.

No, it's the perfect fit based on connections to the "Giants Way". Alas, that has become the key feature to screening candidates.

I'll take Rivera under one condition - he also wears the GM hat.

BTW, look at Resume's drafts for Rivera. They are very underwhelming.
To sum the situation up  
Go Terps : 12/4/2019 1:52 pm : link
- Carolina is bought by David Tepper, a hugely successful businessman universally respected for his intelligence
- Tepper observes the Panthers' organization operations over the course of a year and a half without making any changes
- Tepper fires Rivera and makes the following statement: "We are going to take a comprehensive and thorough review of our football operation to make sure we are structured for long-term sustained success. Our vision is to find the right mix of old-school discipline and toughness with modern and innovative processes."

And now the reaction of many to these events is to state that the Giants should hire Rivera, as he is a logical fit.

Does anyone see the problem here? Anyone at all?
Cowherd can eat a bag of dicks  
Darth Paul : 12/4/2019 1:53 pm : link
But it makes sense. Typical Giants move. Hire Fox and Garrett as Coordinators, Acorsi as a Senior Advisor.
Tired of the finger pointing  
Thegratefulhead : 12/4/2019 1:54 pm : link
Is it the GM? is it the coach? with both trying to cover their own ass. Find someone with talent to do both jobs and hold them accountable to success.
LOL  
BleedBlue : 12/4/2019 2:00 pm : link
well ill take the "giants way" if it means 4 super bowls to how many does carolina have?

should we be more like the bengals? how about the bills?

WHO DO YOU (bw and terps) want us to replicate?

I havent heard EITHER of you give a GM/coach combo that you want...why? because you both will bitch regardless. its what you both do.
RE: To sum the situation up  
Britt in VA : 12/4/2019 2:01 pm : link
In comment 14702929 Go Terps said:
Quote:
- Carolina is bought by David Tepper, a hugely successful businessman universally respected for his intelligence
- Tepper observes the Panthers' organization operations over the course of a year and a half without making any changes
- Tepper fires Rivera and makes the following statement: "We are going to take a comprehensive and thorough review of our football operation to make sure we are structured for long-term sustained success. Our vision is to find the right mix of old-school discipline and toughness with modern and innovative processes."

And now the reaction of many to these events is to state that the Giants should hire Rivera, as he is a logical fit.

Does anyone see the problem here? Anyone at all?


Let me ask you a question. Can you point to an example of a team that has drafted this perfect hybrid old school toughness and heavy analytical presence and present proof of sustainted success? Not flash in the pan season or two, but sustained success that's not the Patriots?

Serious question. Because it used to be Howie Roseman and the Eagles and the way they have been doing business. But that's not been proven to be sustained at this point. If anything, they could be regressing to the mean.

How do you know this isn't a flash in the pan?
old-school discipline and toughness with modern and innovative process  
Torrag : 12/4/2019 2:08 pm : link
The Giants have integrated teaching and medical tech at the highest level within their facilities. As far as analytics and toughness that's a function of coaching. Make the right head coaching hire and 'the vision' will be in place.

So much total BS about the Giants 'archaic' methodology. It's just not true.
Because it seems to me....  
Britt in VA : 12/4/2019 2:09 pm : link
the teams that seem to be the perennial contenders now are the same teams that were perennial contenders before Iphones were even around and PFF was still kicking around in some fan's head in Europe.
RE: Tired of the finger pointing  
bw in dc : 12/4/2019 2:12 pm : link
In comment 14702935 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Is it the GM? is it the coach? with both trying to cover their own ass. Find someone with talent to do both jobs and hold them accountable to success.


I'm with you here. That is the ticket. Break down these old, stodgy ways of doing business in the NFL and have the coach shop for his own groceries.

The GM has become superfluous. The college game doesn't have a GM - like the AD - recruiting players for the HC...
Link if anyone is interested  
Giants in 07 : 12/4/2019 2:16 pm : link
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV9oBQ6sJSI - ( New Window )
RE: Why wouldn't you interview  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 12/4/2019 2:25 pm : link
In comment 14702813 Metnut said:
Quote:
all of the best candidates in good-faith before making a decision? It's not like Rivera is a top coach in this league who we have to jump on immediately.

Also, the connection to Gettleman is meaningless because after the past two seasons, he's a goner. We can't afford to let Gettleman run another draft or be in charge of our $60M in cap space. Another Solger/Ogeltree type of offseason and we're going to be in deep trouble even longer.

Rivera is worthy of an interview and if he can convince the new GM that he's the best for the job, then so be it, but if this is some sort of pre-ordained thing then it's the exact type of cronyism that's put us in this prolonged mess that we're in.

Take Rivera now, completely remove any chance of Garrett, Mccarthy, and Mike Smith.
With all the talk  
GiantEgo : 12/4/2019 2:25 pm : link
About these new super teams that have has success for about 5 mins we should stop a take a look at the Pittsburgh Steelers who have had only 6 losing seasons in the last 46 years. What are they doing right? Shouldn't they be the model?
RE: RE: RE: If the Giants continue doing what seems logical to them  
Giants in 07 : 12/4/2019 2:26 pm : link
In comment 14702814 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14702797 GiantEgo said:


Quote:


In comment 14702792 Go Terps said:


Quote:


They'll continue to lose.



You really should checkout until the Mara's die off or sell the team.



Well it seems fairly reasonable, doesn't it? The Giants have employed a certain organizational methodology that, in the current NFL, has resulted in a 10-34 record the last three seasons. If they don't change the methodology, why would the results improve?


We're 10-34 in the last three years because of the atrocious drafting from 2012-2016

You guys act like we have so many underperforming young players. The cupboard was bare. We had no players in the org.
RE: RE: Why wouldn't you interview  
BleedBlue : 12/4/2019 2:29 pm : link
In comment 14702977 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14702813 Metnut said:


Quote:


all of the best candidates in good-faith before making a decision? It's not like Rivera is a top coach in this league who we have to jump on immediately.

Also, the connection to Gettleman is meaningless because after the past two seasons, he's a goner. We can't afford to let Gettleman run another draft or be in charge of our $60M in cap space. Another Solger/Ogeltree type of offseason and we're going to be in deep trouble even longer.

Rivera is worthy of an interview and if he can convince the new GM that he's the best for the job, then so be it, but if this is some sort of pre-ordained thing then it's the exact type of cronyism that's put us in this prolonged mess that we're in.


Take Rivera now, completely remove any chance of Garrett, Mccarthy, and Mike Smith.


nobody is jumping on him. the fit is there, but i am sure the giants will interview several candidates. i think rivera is a great fit, but time will tell. the fact is...he is no shurmur or mcadoo and based on whats out there, we can do ALOT worse
RE: With all the talk  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 12/4/2019 2:35 pm : link
In comment 14702978 GiantEgo said:
Quote:
About these new super teams that have has success for about 5 mins we should stop a take a look at the Pittsburgh Steelers who have had only 6 losing seasons in the last 46 years. What are they doing right? Shouldn't they be the model?

They have an identity. Big physical LB football and Pouncey stomping on someone's head.

Giants had an identity but throw it out the window for some whizz bang wco coordinators with blow up interview questions with analytics.
RE: RE: RE: Why wouldn't you interview  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 12/4/2019 2:38 pm : link
In comment 14702984 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14702977 Coach Red Beaulieu said:


Quote:


In comment 14702813 Metnut said:


Quote:


all of the best candidates in good-faith before making a decision? It's not like Rivera is a top coach in this league who we have to jump on immediately.

Also, the connection to Gettleman is meaningless because after the past two seasons, he's a goner. We can't afford to let Gettleman run another draft or be in charge of our $60M in cap space. Another Solger/Ogeltree type of offseason and we're going to be in deep trouble even longer.

Rivera is worthy of an interview and if he can convince the new GM that he's the best for the job, then so be it, but if this is some sort of pre-ordained thing then it's the exact type of cronyism that's put us in this prolonged mess that we're in.


Take Rivera now, completely remove any chance of Garrett, Mccarthy, and Mike Smith.



nobody is jumping on him. the fit is there, but i am sure the giants will interview several candidates. i think rivera is a great fit, but time will tell. the fact is...he is no shurmur or mcadoo and based on whats out there, we can do ALOT worse

I'll take him, a DC with some gravitas. I'm afraid there's some other wco weenie that might blow away Mara and Tisch in the interview room.
Terps  
BigBlueCane : 12/4/2019 2:54 pm : link
the problem(s) with your points are that 1)There is no way the Giants make the changes you (and most people including myself want them) to make regarding structure UNLESS Tisch channels his inner Tim J. Mara. Failing that, there is no point in expending willpower and emotional investment on wishful thinking.

2)The other problem is that there's no proof that Teppers approach is the correct one either. For all we know, he could be about to royally fuck things on multiple levels.

I was ok with hiring Rivera until reading mittendams post  
cosmicj : 12/4/2019 3:03 pm : link
On Coughlin/Gilbride and Terps posts on Tepper and the Giants decade of scapegoating.

Thanks guys. :(

The underlying theme here is dispersion of responsibility, a classic management mistake.

When everyone is in charge, no one is in charge.
Every  
PaulN : 12/4/2019 3:25 pm : link
Asshole is an expert here. We need to fix the defense first and foremost, and get an offesive line for our QB. We also need an offesive coordinator that can work well with Jones. Looks to me like all the boxes are checked, he also will bring the stability needed. Last time we hired an experienced coach with a history of some success was Coughlin, we did okay with him, there is not one new system with sustained success, this is a huge upgrade over what we have, maybe we can even get back to chanting defense. IT still wins championships and will again.
Iíd be fine with Rivera  
WillVAB : 12/4/2019 3:26 pm : link
Heís a coach capable of winning a championship. Heís a guy you can visualize holding the Lombardi one day. I did not feel that way about Shurmur or Mcadoo.

Similar philosophy to selecting a franchise QB. If you canít see the guy ever holding the Lombardi trophy, he shouldnít be the guy.
RE: In retrospect  
japanhead : 12/4/2019 3:26 pm : link
In comment 14702880 mittenedman said:
Quote:
all the hostility from Gilbride and TC was telling.

When KG was let go, he was irritated that he'd gone to management years back warning the OL was deteriorating. He always believed pass pro + a run game "if you keep him upright" was key and Eli could take you all the way. (And no that is not true of all QBs.) He then got blamed after the OL clunked out and Eli faltered. "They've figured out his system." KG famously retorted they haven't figured it out in 30 years. It killed TC to have to let KG go.

Fast forward to TC - the ultimate man of principle - unable to even shake Mara's hand in public at his closing press conference. Not hard to imagine what that was all about. Then remember Mara saying "we gave Tom more say than any coach we've ever had".

These 2 lifelong football guys were being ignored as the Super Bowl team Accorsi built started eroding.


this brings back such bad memories. mara damn well should've given his two-time SB winning coach a fucking say.

in the end mara chose to believe that 2013-2015 was evidence that coughlin was past his prime and decided to put his eggs in the reese-ross basket. it's no surprise the wheels fell off completely a couple of years after coughlin was told to walk.

fuck john mara.

he's single-handedly driven this franchise into the ground.
What is so exciting  
rocco8112 : 12/4/2019 3:29 pm : link
about Ron Rivera?
RE: I was ok with hiring Rivera until reading mittendams post  
Go Terps : 12/4/2019 3:58 pm : link
In comment 14703022 cosmicj said:
Quote:
On Coughlin/Gilbride and Terps posts on Tepper and the Giants decade of scapegoating.

Thanks guys. :(

The underlying theme here is dispersion of responsibility, a classic management mistake.

When everyone is in charge, no one is in charge.


Sorry, man. We're in a bad way here.
Terps:  
Sean : 12/4/2019 4:03 pm : link
Any idea why a similar structure has worked so well with the Steelers? Both franchises are family owned - are the Steelers doing something differently in terms of football operations?
I don't think the Rooneys  
BigBlueCane : 12/4/2019 4:20 pm : link
are as hands on as the Maras are.
Sean  
Go Terps : 12/4/2019 4:33 pm : link
That's a great question, and I honestly have no idea. They seem to scout and acquire talent better than the Giants do, but then that leads to the question of why that happens.

They've only had 3 head coaches since 1969, and each of those three coaches has won a Super Bowl. Pretty impressive. They've also had the same GM (Kevin Colbert) since 2000.

So we know they value continuity...but how did they arrive at these particular hires? Continuity for continuity's sake isn't necessarily a positive...does anyone think Shurmur would become a perennial divisional contender given 10 years on the job?

So let's take a quick look at their three key leadership figures these past 20 years.

GM Kevin Colbert

- 1984: BLESTO Scout
- '85-'89: Dolphins Scout
- '90-'00: Detroit Lions Pro Scouting Director
- '00-'19 (hired age 43): Pittsburgh Steelers Director of Football Operations, named the franchise's first ever GM in '10

HC Bill Cowher

- '85-'86: Cleveland Browns Special Teams Coach
- 87-88: Browns' Defensive Backs Coach
- 89-91: KC Defensive Coordinator
- 92-06 (hired age 35): Steelers head coach

HC Mike Tomlin

- 95: VMI WR coach
- 96: Memphis grad assistant
- 97: Arkansas State WR coach
- 98: Ark. State DB coach
- 99-00: Cincinnati U DB coach
- 01-05: Tampa Bay DB coach
- 06: Vikings DC
- 07-Present (hired age 35): Steelers head coach

So they hire young guys who haven't held a job at that level in the past, and once they have them they hold onto them.

To be a fly on the wall in their interview process...
RE: I don't think the Rooneys  
bw in dc : 12/4/2019 4:54 pm : link
In comment 14703143 BigBlueCane said:
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are as hands on as the Maras are.


They are. Dan Rooney Jr is in charge of Player Personnel.

And they have a tremendous history of great scouting.
2017 was the turning point..  
Sean : 12/4/2019 5:04 pm : link
The 2016 offseason was not handled well, but the idea was to maintain the stability - it was going to take a lot to fire Reese. McAdoo was groomed to take over from the time he was hired as OC.

Both McAdoo & Reese weíre young. 2017 was such a disaster that action needed to be taken.

I get that there wonít be drastic changes likely, but this is an opportunity to pair a new young GM with new young HC & start fresh. Give them both long-term contracts tying them together & give them time.
RE: RE: RE: If the Giants continue doing what seems logical to them  
djm : 12/4/2019 5:44 pm : link
In comment 14702814 Go Terps said:
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In comment 14702797 GiantEgo said:


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In comment 14702792 Go Terps said:


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They'll continue to lose.



You really should checkout until the Mara's die off or sell the team.



Well it seems fairly reasonable, doesn't it? The Giants have employed a certain organizational methodology that, in the current NFL, has resulted in a 10-34 record the last three seasons. If they don't change the methodology, why would the results improve?


Why do people keep saying shit that simply isnít true? The giants fucking cleaned house two years ago! They fired EVERYONE! They fired the HC. They fired all asst coaches. They fired mark Ross! They fired the GM! Everyone got wacked!

But DG had some ties to the org so that means what exactly? What does that mean?

Changing the HC changes a lot more than you want to believe. The giants went from awesome to chicken fried shit seemingly overnight when parcells was replaced by Handley. They went from a stale roster and team to an up n coming and energetic team when fassel replaced reeves.

Plus, we donít even know what else is in the works but we donít have a legit HC right now. Nothing will work until a legit HC is added to the mix.
djm  
Go Terps : 12/4/2019 6:35 pm : link
They fired the scouts? Chris Mara?

I agree we don't have a legit head coach. We don't have a legit GM either. You know why? Because the process that was employed to hire them both wasn't legit, and that process is the result of an organizational structure that isn't legit.

I know it's hard to hear. I know you want to think the Giants are just a head coach away from competing.

I don't know what to tell you.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If the Giants continue doing what seems logical to them  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 12/4/2019 6:58 pm : link
In comment 14702823 Thankyoueli said:
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In comment 14702814 Go Terps said:


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In comment 14702797 GiantEgo said:


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In comment 14702792 Go Terps said:


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They'll continue to lose.



You really should checkout until the Mara's die off or sell the team.



Well it seems fairly reasonable, doesn't it? The Giants have employed a certain organizational methodology that, in the current NFL, has resulted in a 10-34 record the last three seasons. If they don't change the methodology, why would the results improve?



What exactly is this methodology and how exactly does Rivera fit into this methodology?

Are there parallels between he and our last 2 coaches? I dont see one thing he has in common with either of them...


They are all people that Terps doesn't like, duh. They clearly didn't consult with him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Snore  
Leg of Theismann : 12/5/2019 12:29 am : link
In comment 14702851 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 14702830 Giantz_comeback said:


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In comment 14702819 Leg of Theismann said:


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In comment 14702794 JonC said:


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The type of hire I'd kill to avoid.



Hahaha. I love JonC.

I agree-- and I think the Giants have been so bad for so long that a lot of posters are just desperate to get back to being mediocre (which is exactly what Rivera has been and would be).

Just because McAdoo and Shurmur were most-known as coordinators and ended up being failures here doesn't mean we should jump at hiring any available experienced HC who shakes free.



Outside of Jim Harbaugh hes one of the best choices available if you want PROVEN winning experience as a NFL HC.

No issue here unless we could have had Harbaugh but passed on him.



for all of the rivera is mediocre and fans are desperate for that...who is your pick? let me guess, you want to revolutinize the way we think and take a young guy. and if that fails? then what? we KNOW what we get from rivera. its like taking a steady paycheck vs trying to launch a new business. if it fails, your family doesnt eat. give me the safe route EVERY time when you have a young QB that needs molding and a defense that is young and in need of a revamping. people here always want the sexy, spicy hire. the fact is, i just want a fucking coach who has his head on and knows how to manage a locker room and football team. that guy is rivera. MANY teams will be after him. are they all "backwards" or "poor" thinking too?


I don't think "taking a steady paycheck" is a very good metaphor to use for football or any sport. I personally don't care to watch Rivera go .500 every season, make the playoffs once every 3-4 years and lose in the first round, just because we "know what we're getting" and that's better than the awful losing records we've seen the last 3 (and really the last 8) years. I don't want a steady paycheck. I want a damn super bowl. That often means you have to take some risks. At least one of if not more of the young guys out there that are available is one of the next great coaches in this league, and I'm willing to take a shot on someone new that is not handpicked by DG nor Mara nor anyone who's known either of those guys personally for the last 20 years. We need to start thinking forward and thinking about what the league is like today and where it is going. We can include some old-school Giant philosophy in our choice(s) but I don't like the idea of just getting a bunch of old guys who have never won a super bowl but did make a few playoff appearances here and there just because we want to "know exactly what we're getting".
Wouldn't it be hilarious  
santacruzom : 12/5/2019 12:49 am : link
If Rivera winds up not being interested in the job?
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