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Lose-Lose for Shurmur

BeckShepEli : 12/4/2019 1:27 pm
Which I think everyone on this board is okay with. Let’s go over some what if’s(assuming Eli starts the next 4 games, no need to rush DJ back)

Eli goes 1-3 or 2-2 at best. Shurmur finishes 4-12 and I personally believe his fate has been decided.

Eli goes 3-1 or 4-0. Mara possibly thinks to himself if we started Eli all year we would have won the East with a 8-8 or 9-7 record. Questions PS on benching Eli.

Eli goes 0-4. Damnit Eli! Shurmur finishes 2-14 on a 12 game losing streak. Shurmur gone and DG also I think.

Prediction because our defense stinks we go 1-3 over the next 4 weeks. Still get chase young and Shurmur is relieved of his duties.
I think Shurmur's fate has been decided.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/4/2019 1:28 pm : link
& he's playing out the string. DG's status is the one I'm more interested in.
RE: I think Shurmur's fate has been decided.  
BleedBlue : 12/4/2019 1:29 pm : link
In comment 14702867 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
& he's playing out the string. DG's status is the one I'm more interested in.


agree.

also sucks to have to root against eli, but we really need an impact defender like young
Gettleman isnt going anywhere  
cjac : 12/4/2019 1:31 pm : link
especially with Riverboat Ron in the mix
I think  
cokeduplt : 12/4/2019 1:31 pm : link
It’s a lose lose for everyone really. I can’t think of how Eli winning games helps us (he won’t). Him losing is just sad now too
I don't think your middle scenario is a lose for Shurmur.  
Mad Mike : 12/4/2019 1:31 pm : link
Sure, there may be some questions about the QB change if Eli comes back and plays well, but it was more than clear at the time that we were going nowhere with Eli, so might as well get Jones' career started. And it's also more than clear that our record this year is well earned by the entire team, and not the fault of Jones at QB. So any hindsight about the QB change would be overwhelmed by credit for getting the team to progress to the point of winning some games down the stretch.

I'm not expecting that scenario to play out, but if it happened, I think it would be an absolute win for Shurmur.
Oh I agree 100 percentt  
BeckShepEli : 12/4/2019 1:32 pm : link
Watching him speak to the media today I think he knows he’s done and has been told already. Too many head coaches available this offseason(we can agree or disagree how good they are) too not make a move for this organization.
RE: I don't think your middle scenario is a lose for Shurmur.  
BeckShepEli : 12/4/2019 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14702878 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
Sure, there may be some questions about the QB change if Eli comes back and plays well, but it was more than clear at the time that we were going nowhere with Eli, so might as well get Jones' career started. And it's also more than clear that our record this year is well earned by the entire team, and not the fault of Jones at QB. So any hindsight about the QB change would be overwhelmed by credit for getting the team to progress to the point of winning some games down the stretch.

I'm not expecting that scenario to play out, but if it happened, I think it would be an absolute win for Shurmur.


Fair point
For the record  
GmeninPSL : 12/4/2019 1:41 pm : link
I cannot see under any circumstances how one would conclude if Eli goes 4-0, the Giants would have been 8-8 or 9-7.

It's all about timing and Jones really did not do anything to lose most of these games. Injuries to key offensive players, horrific defense and bad play calling is what has put the Giants in this tailspin and Eli, even if he goes 4-0 the rest of the way, would not have saved our season if he were the starting QB this year !!
RE: For the record  
BeckShepEli : 12/4/2019 1:43 pm : link
In comment 14702907 GmeninPSL said:
Quote:
I cannot see under any circumstances how one would conclude if Eli goes 4-0, the Giants would have been 8-8 or 9-7.

It's all about timing and Jones really did not do anything to lose most of these games. Injuries to key offensive players, horrific defense and bad play calling is what has put the Giants in this tailspin and Eli, even if he goes 4-0 the rest of the way, would not have saved our season if he were the starting QB this year !!


Eli goes 4-0 puts us at 6-10. You don’t think he would have beat Arizona, Lions, Jets or Bears? 2-2 with those games
Eli's time was up  
anon837 : 12/4/2019 1:47 pm : link
In this day and age of the NFL, you can either have a cement-shoed QB or a bad OL. But you can't have both. That's what the Giants have with Eli. The OL is a sieve and Eli lacks mobility. Jones can at least move and keep the defense honest by scampering for a 1st down. I hate saying it, but the day of the statue QB is done and Eli, along with Rivers, will have to move on. As far Pat goes, barring a miracle, he's done. This team looks so unprepared to play some games. He's an OC not a HC. They thought of him as a QB whisperer but he can't focus on that being the HC. Daniel Jones will need some focused coaching. And as a HC, Pat can't give him that.
RE: Gettleman isnt going anywhere  
HoustonGiant : 12/4/2019 1:53 pm : link
In comment 14702875 cjac said:
Quote:
especially with Riverboat Ron in the mix


^^^This
RE: RE: For the record  
jvm52106 : 12/4/2019 1:56 pm : link
In comment 14702911 BeckShepEli said:
Quote:
In comment 14702907 GmeninPSL said:


Quote:


I cannot see under any circumstances how one would conclude if Eli goes 4-0, the Giants would have been 8-8 or 9-7.

It's all about timing and Jones really did not do anything to lose most of these games. Injuries to key offensive players, horrific defense and bad play calling is what has put the Giants in this tailspin and Eli, even if he goes 4-0 the rest of the way, would not have saved our season if he were the starting QB this year !!



Eli goes 4-0 puts us at 6-10. You don’t think he would have beat Arizona, Lions, Jets or Bears? 2-2 with those games


Nope. Jones played very well against the Lions and did all he could agaibst AZ. Here is a more likely scenario, we would have lost to TB (their front was too much and Kones's legs won us that gane) and we may not haveaten Washington either...
damn typing on my  
jvm52106 : 12/4/2019 1:57 pm : link
phone..
RE: RE: RE: For the record  
Mad Mike : 12/4/2019 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14702940 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
Here is a more likely scenario, we would have lost to TB (their front was too much and Kones's legs won us that gane) and we may not haveaten Washington either...

Yeah, no matter what happens these next 4 games (and it's not going to be 4-0, but whatever), let's not forget how bad this team was those first few games. Maybe Eli could have won a game or two that we lost with Jones, but maybe not. And he almost certainly would've lost the Tampa game that we won with Jones. And some of our moderately competitive losses may very well have been less competitive. And anyway, nitpicking about a couple more wins or a couple more loses doesn't even matter. A losing team should use it's playing time to develop the future - we were a second division team with or without Eli, might as well start Jones on the learning curve. The move was the right decision. If Eli comes in now and plays well, that doesn't change that.
RE: I don't think your middle scenario is a lose for Shurmur.  
Diver_Down : 12/4/2019 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14702878 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
Sure, there may be some questions about the QB change if Eli comes back and plays well, but it was more than clear at the time that we were going nowhere with Eli, so might as well get Jones' career started. And it's also more than clear that our record this year is well earned by the entire team, and not the fault of Jones at QB. So any hindsight about the QB change would be overwhelmed by credit for getting the team to progress to the point of winning some games down the stretch.

I'm not expecting that scenario to play out, but if it happened, I think it would be an absolute win for Shurmur.


You are forgetting that Shurmur explicitly stated when the change occurred that Daniel gives the team the best chance for winning. That hasn't happened for a multitude of reasons some due to DJ's turnovers. The basic truth is that we haven't won. And if Eli does, it will bring into question Shurmur's initial decision.
Yes  
rocco8112 : 12/4/2019 3:27 pm : link
this is lose lose for Shurmur.

If Eli starts all four and they win out, granted this is basically impossible with this sorry group, it does make sense to draw the conclusion that with Eli all year they may have been near 500 which would have them in the hunt for the division.

Likely the Giants lose out, they are a horrible horrible team that now has players certainly giving up and not giving b100 percent. Eli likely goes out with more losses.

But, I would love Eli to go out on a dour game win streak and make Shurmur look bad.
lose lose lose  
MotownGIANTS : 12/4/2019 3:56 pm : link
Fans Eli and Shurmur ....

Fans the obvious .... (barring the better pick we'll cement)
Eli will not be under 500 for his career
Shurmur again the obvious ....


Jones injury hurts Eli the most in my eyes....
RE: RE: I think Shurmur's fate has been decided.  
Eman11 : 12/4/2019 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14702871 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14702867 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& he's playing out the string. DG's status is the one I'm more interested in.



agree.

also sucks to have to root against eli, but we really need an impact defender like young


We don't have to root against Eli because even if he lights it up, our D will get lit up worse.

They're the get-right D for teams as evidenced by Cousins, Darnold, Trubisky amd even Aaron Rodgers coming off his game vs SF.
Shurmur is done  
UberAlias : 12/4/2019 7:51 pm : link
And I don’t think it’s him calling all the shots anymore. My guess is if they had something meaningful to play for Jones guy it out and play. But Jones hasn’t progressed this year under Shurmur if anything he’s regressed. The #1 reason to keep Shurmur would be because of Jones. I once heard a coach needs to sell wins or hope and Jones’ falloff in play leaves Shurmur empty handed there. Jones is taking a beating and no point rolling him out there to get pounded if he’s going to have to learn a new offense next year anyway. Coincidentally this going down soon after NYG is eliminated from playoffs and Rivera becomes available.
Seeing the Dolphins  
mdthedream : 12/4/2019 11:23 pm : link
and skins are on the schedule that would not be really that hard.
RE: RE: RE: I think Shurmur's fate has been decided.  
montanagiant : 12/5/2019 12:09 am : link
In comment 14703116 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14702871 BleedBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 14702867 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& he's playing out the string. DG's status is the one I'm more interested in.



agree.

also sucks to have to root against eli, but we really need an impact defender like young



We don't have to root against Eli because even if he lights it up, our D will get lit up worse.

They're the get-right D for teams as evidenced by Cousins, Darnold, Trubisky amd even Aaron Rodgers coming off his game vs SF.

Why would you even think to root against Eli vs Philly?

That's some really fucked up rational.
Some fans have gotten what they deserve these past few years.  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/5/2019 12:10 am : link
.
RE: Some fans have gotten what they deserve these past few years.  
HomerJones45 : 12/5/2019 12:28 am : link
In comment 14703551 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
.
Lot of NBA fans on this site. So accustomed to teams tanking for lottery picks that they think it should be the same in any sport.
Don’t blame the fans. Blame the system.  
UberAlias : 12/5/2019 5:07 am : link
The system rewards/inventories teams for losing. The team is terrible and out of the playoffs. They need to improve but with nothing to play for. Hard to find hope in a 4 win season, even if they win a couple more. But a blue chip player, there’s hope in that, at least.
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