Mets probably could have gotten him resigned for half that last winter, but that's why LOLmets is a thing.
I love to bash the wilpons as much as the next guy, but I don't see Wheeler signing for half that amount last winter, knowing he was less than a year away from being a FA. 5 year/60 million? C'mon....
I see him more in the 5 for 90-100 range but the market is the market.
If he remains healthy he is a very good but not great pitcher.
So you let him walk to a division rival over 2 mill a year? If you told me they would be using this money in other places I could live with it. No chance they do that.
And Wheeler is getting better not worse. This hurts their team and really helps Philly. But it’s not about winning with the Mets- it’s about money.
RE: RE: I was way off on how much he'd get but good for him Â
Mets probably could have gotten him resigned for half that last winter, but that's why LOLmets is a thing.
I love to bash the wilpons as much as the next guy, but I don't see Wheeler signing for half that amount last winter, knowing he was less than a year away from being a FA. 5 year/60 million? C'mon....
Did you see Keuchel's market last winter? All the other players with QO attached? Eovaldi was very comparable at the time and he got 4/68m, a year ahead of UFA I think it's highly likely Wheeler would have taken something similar.
First half dud, second half stud-ish. I’ve grown tired of talking about “potential” for this guy anyway. Maybe he puts it all together for a whole year one of these days, but I’m guessing not. Have fun in that band box.
First half dud, second half stud-ish. I’ve grown tired of talking about “potential” for this guy anyway. Maybe he puts it all together for a whole year one of these days, but I’m guessing not. Have fun in that band box.
Forget potential, he was the 15th most valuable starter last year.
Since the start of 2018 he is the 9th most valuable starter.
That's not just potential, that's production. The fact that he has more potential than that is a feature not a bug.
And the Mets reluctance to lock down their own good players when they have the chance early continues to come back to haunt them - at least from a value standpoint. If Stroman pitches well this year we will see it again next offseason. And then Thor the year after that. Starting Pitchers by fwar since 2018 - ( New Window )
Not to miller the thread but this may be a holy sh*t moment Â
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
1m
BREAKING: The Sterling Partners and Steve Cohen are negotiating an agreement in which Cohen would increase his investment in the #Mets, per source. Fred Wilpon will remain Control Person and CEO for five years and Jeff Wilpon will remain COO for five-year period as well.
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
1m
BREAKING: The Sterling Partners and Steve Cohen are negotiating an agreement in which Cohen would increase his investment in the #Mets, per source. Fred Wilpon will remain Control Person and CEO for five years and Jeff Wilpon will remain COO for five-year period as well.
Hopefully a gamechanger for the payroll going forward... Rosenthal - ( New Window )
Well, it's hard to get too excited with them staying in those roles for FIVE years
RE: RE: RE: I was way off on how much he'd get but good for him Â
Mets probably could have gotten him resigned for half that last winter, but that's why LOLmets is a thing.
I love to bash the wilpons as much as the next guy, but I don't see Wheeler signing for half that amount last winter, knowing he was less than a year away from being a FA. 5 year/60 million? C'mon....
Did you see Keuchel's market last winter? All the other players with QO attached? Eovaldi was very comparable at the time and he got 4/68m, a year ahead of UFA I think it's highly likely Wheeler would have taken something similar.
Yes, I am aware of what happened last year. I still think there was very little chance of Wheeler taking a 5/60 type of deal, he was pretty determined to test the market. Eovaldi was keen to capitalize on his playoff/world series success.
on the market are kind of blah. Maybe the Mets can bring in Ryu for a cheaper deal than Wheeler (obviously less term). He might be the only realistic option on the market who could replicate Wheeler's production.
Of course, his durability would be an issue given how thin our pitching is.
Did you see Keuchel's market last winter? All the other players with QO attached? Eovaldi was very comparable at the time and he got 4/68m, a year ahead of UFA I think it's highly likely Wheeler would have taken something similar.
Yes, I am aware of what happened last year. I still think there was very little chance of Wheeler taking a 5/60 type of deal, he was pretty determined to test the market. Eovaldi was keen to capitalize on his playoff/world series success.
Wheeler was not determined to test the market - he's mentioned that he wanted to stay with the mets and open to an extension every time he's been asked going back to 2015. I believe they even negotiated in ST and again before TDL. The only guy who begged harder to extend year after year was JDG.
Thor and Harvey were both publicly negative about early extensions.
but I'd love to bring in Harvey for some super cheap non-guaranteed deal. He's been truly awful recently, but a few years distance between his surgery and maybe working with Hefner he has some sort of comeback.
Would be a great story. Stranger things have happened.
might paint a different picture, but as someone who has watched Wheeler pitch regularly since being called up I am not going to miss him. Philly can enjoy getting the bullpen warmed up after 4/5 innings because he's already thrown 90 pitches. He's a good #3 getting paid as a 1/2 now.
might paint a different picture, but as someone who has watched Wheeler pitch regularly since being called up I am not going to miss him. Philly can enjoy getting the bullpen warmed up after 4/5 innings because he's already thrown 90 pitches. He's a good #3 getting paid as a 1/2 now.
Same.
it has little to do w advanced stats -his real stats (IP, W's, K's, R) Â
He has been 1 of the 20 best pitchers in baseball across just about every hard stat category there is over the past 2 seasons. That is a lot of production. That has nothing to do with potential or fancy new stats. He hasn't been an ace like JDG or Sherzer (few have) but he has been a horse.
RE: it has little to do w advanced stats -his real stats (IP, W's, K's, R) Â
He has been 1 of the 20 best pitchers in baseball across just about every hard stat category there is over the past 2 seasons. That is a lot of production. That has nothing to do with potential or fancy new stats. He hasn't been an ace like JDG or Sherzer (few have) but he has been a horse.
Fair enough, but as someone who has watched Wheeler pitch regularly were you ever excited to watch him? Has he ever pitched in or won a meaningful game? I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted to give him $20m+ a year.
you have to be on a team that gets to big games to pitch in them Â
and yes i've been excited to watch Wheeler. I was excited to see him pitch when he and Harvey first came up and they were striking out more guys than anyone this org produced since Doc Gooden. That wasn't a short amount of time in between those 2 eras. In 2018 his second half was as good as JDG. We can agree that level of performance is exciting, no? I also think it's been exciting to have 1 of the best rotations in MLB for the past 5 years or so, and Wheeler has been a big piece of that when healthy.
Just my 2 cents but it's an unrealistic expectation to think any team will ever have 5 guys better than or even comparable Wheeler. There are 30 teams in baseball, which means close to half of the league doesn't even have 1 single SP as good as Wheeler when you account for the fact that teams like the Mets, Nats, Hou, LAD have multiple top pitchers. That's why he got $100m+.
Wheeler was not determined to test the market - he's mentioned that he wanted to stay with the mets and open to an extension every time he's been asked going back to 2015. I believe they even negotiated in ST and again before TDL. The only guy who begged harder to extend year after year was JDG.
Thor and Harvey were both publicly negative about early extensions.
Yeah, Harvey sure made he right call there, lol.
Wheeler's not stupid, of course he's going to say he's open to an extension He was so open to staying with the mets, yet never did sign a deal.
He wanted to test the market, and good for him he succeeded! 5/118 seems like a lot for a solid yet not an ace type pitcher
the second he took off in the third week of April 2018. Too bad we couldn't extend him then. Ill miss you Zack. Truly a great Met who loved being one. You beat all odds and battled back to be great.
Best of luck.
Now sign Keuchel!
And this is where citing overall stats can be misleading. Â
Look at his first half/second half splits. He’s a second half pitcher. An August/September stud. At least the past two seasons. But up to the Allstar break and even beyond, he’s not great. The games in the first half of the season count...as we unfortunately saw this past season again. Maybe if we didn’t have such a big hill to climb late in the season we would have make it to the Wild Card game.
Don’t get me wrong, I would have loved to have him back but I also believe that Stroman can replicate Wheeler’s results or be even better. I just can’t sit here and say he is as good as some of you believe. Not from his “overall stats” and not from what I’ve watched (nearly every single game he pitched).
Personally, I’m happy to be able to face him during the first 2/3 of the season.
He’s pitched on a team that does not stress defense and rarely makes the plays the better teams make on a routine basis. Plus, last year, for the most part, he was pitching to a catcher who defensively was at the bottom of the league. You remember deGrom and Thor wanted to throw to someone else. Never heard Wheeler complain. Unless Stroman is a lot better than he looked, this is a big loss.
Stroman gave up 3 runs or less in 8 of the 11 games he Â
started with the Mets last season. And 2 runs or less in 6 of those games. All while changing leagues and going to a team that I’m sure NO player would be excited to be traded to. I think that many fans had a lofty expectation for Stroman.
That Wheeler actually had multiple deals on the table for even MORE money but chose the Phillies because of his wives job and the proximity to where they live.
Phillies steal wheeler.
Nats probably going to do something big after winning WS.
You know Jeff Wilpon is just itching to do something totally moronic to get on the back pages as cheaply as possible.
I don't care either way, just letting you know.
Link - ( New Window )
I love to bash the wilpons as much as the next guy, but I don't see Wheeler signing for half that amount last winter, knowing he was less than a year away from being a FA. 5 year/60 million? C'mon....
If he remains healthy he is a very good but not great pitcher.
If he remains healthy he is a very good but not great pitcher.
So you let him walk to a division rival over 2 mill a year? If you told me they would be using this money in other places I could live with it. No chance they do that.
And Wheeler is getting better not worse. This hurts their team and really helps Philly. But it’s not about winning with the Mets- it’s about money.
Quote:
Mets probably could have gotten him resigned for half that last winter, but that's why LOLmets is a thing.
I love to bash the wilpons as much as the next guy, but I don't see Wheeler signing for half that amount last winter, knowing he was less than a year away from being a FA. 5 year/60 million? C'mon....
Did you see Keuchel's market last winter? All the other players with QO attached? Eovaldi was very comparable at the time and he got 4/68m, a year ahead of UFA I think it's highly likely Wheeler would have taken something similar.
First half dud, second half stud-ish. I’ve grown tired of talking about “potential” for this guy anyway. Maybe he puts it all together for a whole year one of these days, but I’m guessing not. Have fun in that band box.
First half dud, second half stud-ish. I’ve grown tired of talking about “potential” for this guy anyway. Maybe he puts it all together for a whole year one of these days, but I’m guessing not. Have fun in that band box.
Forget potential, he was the 15th most valuable starter last year.
Since the start of 2018 he is the 9th most valuable starter.
That's not just potential, that's production. The fact that he has more potential than that is a feature not a bug.
And the Mets reluctance to lock down their own good players when they have the chance early continues to come back to haunt them - at least from a value standpoint. If Stroman pitches well this year we will see it again next offseason. And then Thor the year after that.
Starting Pitchers by fwar since 2018 - ( New Window )
1m
BREAKING: The Sterling Partners and Steve Cohen are negotiating an agreement in which Cohen would increase his investment in the #Mets, per source. Fred Wilpon will remain Control Person and CEO for five years and Jeff Wilpon will remain COO for five-year period as well.
Hopefully a gamechanger for the payroll going forward...
Rosenthal - ( New Window )
1m
BREAKING: The Sterling Partners and Steve Cohen are negotiating an agreement in which Cohen would increase his investment in the #Mets, per source. Fred Wilpon will remain Control Person and CEO for five years and Jeff Wilpon will remain COO for five-year period as well.
Hopefully a gamechanger for the payroll going forward... Rosenthal - ( New Window )
Well, it's hard to get too excited with them staying in those roles for FIVE years
Quote:
In comment 14703013 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Mets probably could have gotten him resigned for half that last winter, but that's why LOLmets is a thing.
I love to bash the wilpons as much as the next guy, but I don't see Wheeler signing for half that amount last winter, knowing he was less than a year away from being a FA. 5 year/60 million? C'mon....
Did you see Keuchel's market last winter? All the other players with QO attached? Eovaldi was very comparable at the time and he got 4/68m, a year ahead of UFA I think it's highly likely Wheeler would have taken something similar.
Yes, I am aware of what happened last year. I still think there was very little chance of Wheeler taking a 5/60 type of deal, he was pretty determined to test the market. Eovaldi was keen to capitalize on his playoff/world series success.
Of course, his durability would be an issue given how thin our pitching is.
Did you see Keuchel's market last winter? All the other players with QO attached? Eovaldi was very comparable at the time and he got 4/68m, a year ahead of UFA I think it's highly likely Wheeler would have taken something similar.
Yes, I am aware of what happened last year. I still think there was very little chance of Wheeler taking a 5/60 type of deal, he was pretty determined to test the market. Eovaldi was keen to capitalize on his playoff/world series success.
Wheeler was not determined to test the market - he's mentioned that he wanted to stay with the mets and open to an extension every time he's been asked going back to 2015. I believe they even negotiated in ST and again before TDL. The only guy who begged harder to extend year after year was JDG.
Thor and Harvey were both publicly negative about early extensions.
Would be a great story. Stranger things have happened.
Same.
IP - 12th
W - 27th
K's - 18th
ERA - 18th
He has been 1 of the 20 best pitchers in baseball across just about every hard stat category there is over the past 2 seasons. That is a lot of production. That has nothing to do with potential or fancy new stats. He hasn't been an ace like JDG or Sherzer (few have) but he has been a horse.
IP - 12th
W - 27th
K's - 18th
ERA - 18th
He has been 1 of the 20 best pitchers in baseball across just about every hard stat category there is over the past 2 seasons. That is a lot of production. That has nothing to do with potential or fancy new stats. He hasn't been an ace like JDG or Sherzer (few have) but he has been a horse.
Fair enough, but as someone who has watched Wheeler pitch regularly were you ever excited to watch him? Has he ever pitched in or won a meaningful game? I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted to give him $20m+ a year.
Just my 2 cents but it's an unrealistic expectation to think any team will ever have 5 guys better than or even comparable Wheeler. There are 30 teams in baseball, which means close to half of the league doesn't even have 1 single SP as good as Wheeler when you account for the fact that teams like the Mets, Nats, Hou, LAD have multiple top pitchers. That's why he got $100m+.
Wheeler was not determined to test the market - he's mentioned that he wanted to stay with the mets and open to an extension every time he's been asked going back to 2015. I believe they even negotiated in ST and again before TDL. The only guy who begged harder to extend year after year was JDG.
Thor and Harvey were both publicly negative about early extensions.
Yeah, Harvey sure made he right call there, lol.
Wheeler's not stupid, of course he's going to say he's open to an extension He was so open to staying with the mets, yet never did sign a deal.
He wanted to test the market, and good for him he succeeded! 5/118 seems like a lot for a solid yet not an ace type pitcher
Best of luck.
Now sign Keuchel!
Don’t get me wrong, I would have loved to have him back but I also believe that Stroman can replicate Wheeler’s results or be even better. I just can’t sit here and say he is as good as some of you believe. Not from his “overall stats” and not from what I’ve watched (nearly every single game he pitched).
Personally, I’m happy to be able to face him during the first 2/3 of the season.
That’s why he projects well. Because as he gets more experience, the off speed stuff figures to keep getting better