I’m not being combative, I seriously want to know who you guys have in mind. And most importantly, why?
The naysayers want the Giants to bring in an operations leader or consultants who've been a part of a program with sustained success this decade. Guys who understand not only what is relevant in football ops now, but what will be required in the near future.
If that group says Ron Rivera is the type of coach who is at the vanguard of leading an NFL program, sign him up.
I’m not being combative, I seriously want to know who you guys have in mind. And most importantly, why?
The naysayers want the Giants to bring in an operations leader or consultants who've been a part of a program with sustained success this decade. Guys who understand not only what is relevant in football ops now, but what will be required in the near future.
If that group says Ron Rivera is the type of coach who is at the vanguard of leading an NFL program, sign him up.
I would love that too. But how do we trust the people that Mara picks as those people? Who are those people?
is a fair assessment. not to say he wasn't or won't be a good coach, but it was a speech and a Q & A.
Eli Manning was by many accounts not a great speaker in front of the team, but he was a great leader. people are not comfortable with uncertainty so they want to latch onto things and make conclusions.
FYI: he was also the coach of the team that took repeated cheap shots at Beckham. just make sure you put everything on the scale when you are evaluating him.
Greg, If you can’t see A difference between him and the last two bumbling idiots we’ve had I don’t know what to tell you.
Of course he's a better coach than McAdoo or Shurmur, but no one's arguing against that. In fact, that's true of more than 50% of the current HCs in the league right now, which is why those coaches will be keeping their jobs next year and McAdoo and Shurmur will be unemployed.
The exact thing people are arguing against is to not latch onto the first HC with a little winning experience who shakes free just because he's clearly going to win a few more games than Shurmur has. The question is will the next guy we hire lead us to a Super Bowl title, not will the next guy we hire lead us back to repeated .500 seasons.
It's just a little weird to see so many posters groveling over a coaching staff that just got fired for failing to win enough NFL football games. It reeks of desperation, which is understandable from a fanbase that has endured almost a decade's worth of awful play.
It's like if you just got out of a really long and shitty marriage and your ex-wife had put on 100 extra pounds and looked awful. Are you going to marry the first girl you see on the street just because she's fuckable and you haven't had a good lay in 10 years? No.
But by God the man gives a terrific press conference, and that's what wins football games.
He actually had 4. I know one year they finished 7-8-1, but they did win the division and a playoff game that year. I count that as a successful season.
I'll keep repeating my #1 guy on this board over and over: Saleh, Saleh, Saleh, Saleh, and Saleh. Especially if he can bring over anyone who works under him on the defensive side of the ball (I want their D-Line coach as our Defensive Coordinator, mainly). Those guys turned a losing team into one of the most feared defenses in the NFL, has them playing like a "bunch of crazed dogs", THAT is the culture I want to bring BACK to NYG, THAT is what this franchise is all about, not necessarily a bunch of boyscouts who know the right things to say to the media. People have forgotten that, including John Mara.
he presents and carries himself in a press conference?
LOL. I'm a Cal Bear myself, and would root for Rivera on that basis alone, but how a guy carries a presser means jack shit.
Maybe y'all should heed the warning Toshiro Mifune offers the young idealistic samurai in the opening of Sanjuro. When the young samurai who unearthed clan corruption are duped by the corrupt theiving clan magistrate, who carries himself well and is a handsome taller man, that the older, ugly, "horse-faced" magistrate is collared and blamed for the theft.
"Good looking" doesn't make a coach "good". Take a good look at Belichichik.
RE: Folks think Rivera will make a good HC because of the way Â
he presents and carries himself in a press conference?
LOL. I'm a Cal Bear myself, and would root for Rivera on that basis alone, but how a guy carries a presser means jack shit.
Maybe y'all should heed the warning Toshiro Mifune offers the young idealistic samurai in the opening of Sanjuro. When the young samurai who unearthed clan corruption are duped by the corrupt theiving clan magistrate, who carries himself well and is a handsome taller man, that the older, ugly, "horse-faced" magistrate is collared and blamed for the theft.
"Good looking" doesn't make a coach "good". Take a good look at Belichichik.
EXACTLY. All this talk about what a coach should look like in a press conference, when BB who is the greatest coach in the history of the game is the least charismatic, biggest dick to the media of all time. Parcells was often sarcastic and dismissive with the media as well. You know why it didn't matter to us? Because he was winning games! Which is the thing that ACTUALLY makes a good head coach in this league.
I really can't believe how easily some Giants fans on this board are fooled and how easily impressed they are. All it takes is a nice smile and a firm handshake and everyone around here is all "what a classy guy, this guy is all class, he's bringing back the Giant way, blah blah blah."
I just said this but I'm going to say it again: maybe the things that Maras (namely Wellington) and the Giants organization did off the field were "classy" but let's not mistake simply having "class" for being the "Giant way". The Giant way is "running around like crazed dogs", putting fear in the hearts of opposing quarterbacks, the bloody and bruising NFC East, Road warrior, no nonsense in-your-face smashmouth football. It's not just about being a bunch of boyscouts who know the right things to say to the media. Every super bowl we've won has come because our defense is nastier and more intense than every other team out there, the super bowls we've won have come from us not giving a damn who Tom Brady or Joe Montana or Elway or Jim Kelly are, we get after the quarterback and hit 'em in the mouth play after play and we don't let a reputation or pedigree convince us that we're about to lose or have to be afraid of anyone.
Class in a press conference is all well and good, but that's not MY number 1 priority in a coach/player/GM etc. What we need is intensity and anger back in this locker room and on the field. The current 49er defense and D-Line is the closest thing I've seen to that all this year and maybe in the last few years and that's why I keep bringing up Saleh's name (especially if we're about to draft Chase Young).
But as little as I know now about the candidates, and it's admittedly far too little, I'd like to take a long, long look at Saleh. His defense plays like a Giants D should.
But as little as I know now about the candidates, and it's admittedly far too little, I'd like to take a long, long look at Saleh. His defense plays like a Giants D should.
Can he elevate to HC? Who knows?
Your last line will be a question that Mara/Tisch are faced with in our next HC search. I presume they will be hesitant to go the coordinator --> HC route as they will be looking for proven experience as a HC. They need to stop the coaching carousel and provide stability and leadership. We have been a rudderless ship for far too many years.
He should be on the list of candidates. Mara and Tisch should not be waiting till the end of the year to sit and talk. Discuss things now an make a call, one way or the other.
Rivera, also goes into a bit of using analytics. 3 division championships is nice to hang ones hat one. You can look at the wins and loses,,,give credit where it is due.
He should be on the list of candidates. Mara and Tisch should not be waiting till the end of the year to sit and talk. Discuss things now an make a call, one way or the other.
Rivera, also goes into a bit of using analytics. 3 division championships is nice to hang ones hat one. You can look at the wins and loses,,,give credit where it is due.
It's odd to see another thread questioning Rivera's use of analytics with many posts on that thread timestamped after this thread. Rivera clearly explains his embracing analytics while also exposing the fallacy that analytics can't replace experience.
Nobody is saying hire him based on the press conference. Â
I like RR and would be happy with him as the next Giants coach... He played for Mike Ditka and Buddy Ryan, his teams have always been tough and he’s always been a class act. I think he’s out this year solely because the new Panthers’ owner wants to put his own stamp on the team.
Only on BBI would three division titles and a 15-1 Superbowl run be looked at as average... at best.
Is there not some spin in there as well? equally accurate to say his team had a winning record in 3 of 9 seasons and won a total of 3 playoff games in that span.
So maybe he's had an overall body of work that contained mixed results and on balance could be argued to be pretty mediocre? Is it really impossible to see why some might find the prospect of hiring him to be highly uninspiring?
It wouldn't invalidate your support/enthusiasm. It would simply be a different viewpoint.
Im guessing the assistant coaches and positional coaches are a bit of a rush mash
You need those to be not only in synch with the particular method, also to be great, great communicators within the coaching group,
but also those who have recently actually taught the basic techniques and language. Not just run the show. Probably add some coaching positions (technique for ol.db, as well as scheme for each week or what have you)
Because kids are coming out of college without those techniques and language not only at OL (ergo also rbs and QBs) but also someone mentioned, many colleges now play a very over simplified defensive backfield system as well.
...but just three winning seasons in 9 years. That's not really impressive.
I actually thought it would have been at least half......the Panthers always appeared to be to be prepared and competitive. Seems other than a few years, they are close but simply not good enough....as demonstrated by points for/points against which are relatively close every year.
RE: RE: I'm not trying to discredit the guy's career to make a point. Â
Only on BBI would three division titles and a 15-1 Superbowl run be looked at as average... at best.
Is there not some spin in there as well? equally accurate to say his team had a winning record in 3 of 9 seasons and won a total of 3 playoff games in that span.
So maybe he's had an overall body of work that contained mixed results and on balance could be argued to be pretty mediocre? Is it really impossible to see why some might find the prospect of hiring him to be highly uninspiring?
It wouldn't invalidate your support/enthusiasm. It would simply be a different viewpoint.
I can understand that point of view, but I just don't consider it as putting a spin on anything.
I think the above, what you mentioned, is good enough. I'm not trying to inflate it or deflate it. I would be happy with the above results for the Giants right now.
Another problem I have is this 3 out of 9 winning seasons thing..... Â
For one, this season is incomplete. He's fired at 5-7. That's incomplete. I don't think this season should be used as a knock when a. his QB has been injured all season and b. he's 2 games away from .500 with 4 to play.
For two, he took a 3-8-1 team, won four in a row, and won the division. Then, he won a playoff game. If this happened with the Giants, I would consider this a winning season. It is being used against him, here. It's no easy task when the odds are stacked against you to win four (playoff game makes 5) in a row or you don't go.
And frankly, being fired at 5-7 is pretty shocking. Â
When ownership of the GM won't address fans with a press conference mid-season - a fireable offense!!
Did Greg say the latter, bolded part? Answer that question. Don't dodge like you usually do.
--
"But BBI said" (the casual conflation of different posts from different posters) and the like are hands down the absolute shittiest, most low effort posts on this entire board.
Lots of individuals here with manifold opinions. Lazy poster meld them together to construct a straw man that they then illegitimately - and of course righteously - slam down (e.g. the above quoted nonsense.)
RE: And frankly, being fired at 5-7 is pretty shocking. Â
Especially when your starting QB has been injured all year.
Is that even precedented?
It's unusual, no doubt. But then you look to the comments from the owner. And it becomes clearer that he simply didn't see RR fitting in to the way they operationally wanted to do things going forward in terms of the use of technology/analytics and forward-thinking.
When I couple that interpretation with Gettleman's previous disdain / open mockery of such things, it gives me a whole lot of pause, to say the least.
But, I'll admit that I've already made up my mind firmly that they should be moving on from Gettleman as well. So my disappointment with a RR hiring would be less a function of any particular disdain for RR and more that they're leaving the reins with DG for another offseason with really important resources in play.
RE: RE: And frankly, being fired at 5-7 is pretty shocking. Â
Especially when your starting QB has been injured all year.
Is that even precedented?
Not sure, but the owner Dave Tepper probably has a reputation of making changes pronto if things aren't going the way he wants them............
And that's the other thing. I keep seeing that Tepper quote about he wants the approach where old school toughness meets modern analytics, etc....
Like all things, that sounds great in theory. But do we have any proven example of sustained success using this model? Ron Rivera is a football lifer. What's Tepper's football background? What if Tepper is making a big mistake here? But he's being praised, sight unseen.
Football, no matter how modern you make it, will always be a violent, emotional game played by human beings. The analytics may be able to tell you the probabilities of going for it on 4th down, or going for two, etc... But they will NEVER be able to tell you which Odell Beckham (for example) is going to show up every Sunday.
RE: RE: RE: And frankly, being fired at 5-7 is pretty shocking. Â
Especially when your starting QB has been injured all year.
Is that even precedented?
Not sure, but the owner Dave Tepper probably has a reputation of making changes pronto if things aren't going the way he wants them............
And that's the other thing. I keep seeing that Tepper quote about he wants the approach where old school toughness meets modern analytics, etc....
Like all things, that sounds great in theory. But do we have any proven example of sustained success using this model? Ron Rivera is a football lifer. What's Tepper's football background? What if Tepper is making a big mistake here? But he's being praised, sight unseen.
Football, no matter how modern you make it, will always be a violent, emotional game played by human beings. The analytics may be able to tell you the probabilities of going for it on 4th down, or going for two, etc... But they will NEVER be able to tell you which Odell Beckham (for example) is going to show up every Sunday.
Good post Britt, let’s judge Tepper’s moves 3 or 4 years down the road.
RE: RE: RE: And frankly, being fired at 5-7 is pretty shocking. Â
Especially when your starting QB has been injured all year.
Is that even precedented?
Not sure, but the owner Dave Tepper probably has a reputation of making changes pronto if things aren't going the way he wants them............
And that's the other thing. I keep seeing that Tepper quote about he wants the approach where old school toughness meets modern analytics, etc....
Like all things, that sounds great in theory. But do we have any proven example of sustained success using this model? Ron Rivera is a football lifer. What's Tepper's football background? What if Tepper is making a big mistake here? But he's being praised, sight unseen.
Football, no matter how modern you make it, will always be a violent, emotional game played by human beings. The analytics may be able to tell you the probabilities of going for it on 4th down, or going for two, etc... But they will NEVER be able to tell you which Odell Beckham (for example) is going to show up every Sunday.
What was that old NFL Films line from Bum Phillips, when asked about the Cowboys who were one of the first teams to start using computers to scouting and such:
Paraphrasing: "I don't care what the computer says. Can you block your man? Then block him!".
But by God the man gives a terrific press conference, and that's what wins football games.
Again, by your account Bill B should never have hired by the Patriots. He had 1 winning season in 5 years and was sub .500 for his tenure in Cleveland...
That's what I was thinking. Imagine if BB doesn't get a second chance.
Very few have his experience or success. Remember no HC has had just success (at least not in decades). This guy has been a HC, won bigly at certain times, and made the playoffs 50% of the time (not counting this season).
We could do a hell of a lot worse. In my opinion, its either Rivera or rolling the dice on another OC/DC (which I personally would hate).
RE: Rivera will be one of the strongest HC's on the market Â
Very few have his experience or success. Remember no HC has had just success (at least not in decades). This guy has been a HC, won bigly at certain times, and made the playoffs 50% of the time (not counting this season).
We could do a hell of a lot worse. In my opinion, its either Rivera or rolling the dice on another OC/DC (which I personally would hate).
And for you guys saying he has only had winning seasons 3 out of 8 times, thats a strawman. His 7-9 season he won the division, and did a great job turning the team around after a bad start. I've read he considers that his best coaching season.
RE: RE: Rivera will be one of the strongest HC's on the market Â
Very few have his experience or success. Remember no HC has had just success (at least not in decades). This guy has been a HC, won bigly at certain times, and made the playoffs 50% of the time (not counting this season).
We could do a hell of a lot worse. In my opinion, its either Rivera or rolling the dice on another OC/DC (which I personally would hate).
And for you guys saying he has only had winning seasons 3 out of 8 times, thats a strawman. His 7-9 season he won the division, and did a great job turning the team around after a bad start. I've read he considers that his best coaching season.
You don't know what Strawman is, You should not use it.
"an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument."
There is nothing misrepresented. It was in fact a losing season. The only reason they made the playoffs was because they played in the shittiest division in football that year. It was historically awful year for the division. Every team had a losing record. He won the playoff game, good job. The year before, the team was 12-4. One hell of a decline. He had to win 4 games in a row to win the division. It is legitimate to question that season.
The naysayers want the Giants to bring in an operations leader or consultants who've been a part of a program with sustained success this decade. Guys who understand not only what is relevant in football ops now, but what will be required in the near future.
If that group says Ron Rivera is the type of coach who is at the vanguard of leading an NFL program, sign him up.
Quote:
I’m not being combative, I seriously want to know who you guys have in mind. And most importantly, why?
The naysayers want the Giants to bring in an operations leader or consultants who've been a part of a program with sustained success this decade. Guys who understand not only what is relevant in football ops now, but what will be required in the near future.
If that group says Ron Rivera is the type of coach who is at the vanguard of leading an NFL program, sign him up.
I would love that too. But how do we trust the people that Mara picks as those people? Who are those people?
Eli Manning was by many accounts not a great speaker in front of the team, but he was a great leader. people are not comfortable with uncertainty so they want to latch onto things and make conclusions.
FYI: he was also the coach of the team that took repeated cheap shots at Beckham. just make sure you put everything on the scale when you are evaluating him.
Quote:
.
Greg, If you can’t see A difference between him and the last two bumbling idiots we’ve had I don’t know what to tell you.
Of course he's a better coach than McAdoo or Shurmur, but no one's arguing against that. In fact, that's true of more than 50% of the current HCs in the league right now, which is why those coaches will be keeping their jobs next year and McAdoo and Shurmur will be unemployed.
The exact thing people are arguing against is to not latch onto the first HC with a little winning experience who shakes free just because he's clearly going to win a few more games than Shurmur has. The question is will the next guy we hire lead us to a Super Bowl title, not will the next guy we hire lead us back to repeated .500 seasons.
It's just a little weird to see so many posters groveling over a coaching staff that just got fired for failing to win enough NFL football games. It reeks of desperation, which is understandable from a fanbase that has endured almost a decade's worth of awful play.
It's like if you just got out of a really long and shitty marriage and your ex-wife had put on 100 extra pounds and looked awful. Are you going to marry the first girl you see on the street just because she's fuckable and you haven't had a good lay in 10 years? No.
He actually had 4. I know one year they finished 7-8-1, but they did win the division and a playoff game that year. I count that as a successful season.
link - ( New Window )
BB--not happening
Shaw--not leaving Cali
Rhule
Rivera
L Riley
Mcdaniels
I beg to differ. Look at the way Rivera carries himself versus Shurmur.
I like this list.
I'll keep repeating my #1 guy on this board over and over: Saleh, Saleh, Saleh, Saleh, and Saleh. Especially if he can bring over anyone who works under him on the defensive side of the ball (I want their D-Line coach as our Defensive Coordinator, mainly). Those guys turned a losing team into one of the most feared defenses in the NFL, has them playing like a "bunch of crazed dogs", THAT is the culture I want to bring BACK to NYG, THAT is what this franchise is all about, not necessarily a bunch of boyscouts who know the right things to say to the media. People have forgotten that, including John Mara.
He 'looks like' a coach and 'sounds like' one? Sounds like the kind of logic that had us end up with Ray Handley while the GOAT went off to Cleveland.
Except Handley looked like a pedo math teacher.
LOL. I'm a Cal Bear myself, and would root for Rivera on that basis alone, but how a guy carries a presser means jack shit.
Maybe y'all should heed the warning Toshiro Mifune offers the young idealistic samurai in the opening of Sanjuro. When the young samurai who unearthed clan corruption are duped by the corrupt theiving clan magistrate, who carries himself well and is a handsome taller man, that the older, ugly, "horse-faced" magistrate is collared and blamed for the theft.
"Good looking" doesn't make a coach "good". Take a good look at Belichichik.
LOL. I'm a Cal Bear myself, and would root for Rivera on that basis alone, but how a guy carries a presser means jack shit.
Maybe y'all should heed the warning Toshiro Mifune offers the young idealistic samurai in the opening of Sanjuro. When the young samurai who unearthed clan corruption are duped by the corrupt theiving clan magistrate, who carries himself well and is a handsome taller man, that the older, ugly, "horse-faced" magistrate is collared and blamed for the theft.
"Good looking" doesn't make a coach "good". Take a good look at Belichichik.
EXACTLY. All this talk about what a coach should look like in a press conference, when BB who is the greatest coach in the history of the game is the least charismatic, biggest dick to the media of all time. Parcells was often sarcastic and dismissive with the media as well. You know why it didn't matter to us? Because he was winning games! Which is the thing that ACTUALLY makes a good head coach in this league.
I really can't believe how easily some Giants fans on this board are fooled and how easily impressed they are. All it takes is a nice smile and a firm handshake and everyone around here is all "what a classy guy, this guy is all class, he's bringing back the Giant way, blah blah blah."
I just said this but I'm going to say it again: maybe the things that Maras (namely Wellington) and the Giants organization did off the field were "classy" but let's not mistake simply having "class" for being the "Giant way". The Giant way is "running around like crazed dogs", putting fear in the hearts of opposing quarterbacks, the bloody and bruising NFC East, Road warrior, no nonsense in-your-face smashmouth football. It's not just about being a bunch of boyscouts who know the right things to say to the media. Every super bowl we've won has come because our defense is nastier and more intense than every other team out there, the super bowls we've won have come from us not giving a damn who Tom Brady or Joe Montana or Elway or Jim Kelly are, we get after the quarterback and hit 'em in the mouth play after play and we don't let a reputation or pedigree convince us that we're about to lose or have to be afraid of anyone.
Class in a press conference is all well and good, but that's not MY number 1 priority in a coach/player/GM etc. What we need is intensity and anger back in this locker room and on the field. The current 49er defense and D-Line is the closest thing I've seen to that all this year and maybe in the last few years and that's why I keep bringing up Saleh's name (especially if we're about to draft Chase Young).
/rant over.
Can he elevate to HC? Who knows?
Can he elevate to HC? Who knows?
Your last line will be a question that Mara/Tisch are faced with in our next HC search. I presume they will be hesitant to go the coordinator --> HC route as they will be looking for proven experience as a HC. They need to stop the coaching carousel and provide stability and leadership. We have been a rudderless ship for far too many years.
That's pretty darn good.
I just can't stomach another Shurmur presser. The guy is not a leader. I was hoping there was more to him behind the scenes, but obviously not.
He should be on the list of candidates. Mara and Tisch should not be waiting till the end of the year to sit and talk. Discuss things now an make a call, one way or the other.
Rivera, also goes into a bit of using analytics. 3 division championships is nice to hang ones hat one. You can look at the wins and loses,,,give credit where it is due.
He should be on the list of candidates. Mara and Tisch should not be waiting till the end of the year to sit and talk. Discuss things now an make a call, one way or the other.
Rivera, also goes into a bit of using analytics. 3 division championships is nice to hang ones hat one. You can look at the wins and loses,,,give credit where it is due.
It's odd to see another thread questioning Rivera's use of analytics with many posts on that thread timestamped after this thread. Rivera clearly explains his embracing analytics while also exposing the fallacy that analytics can't replace experience.
It's part of the package. You want a person that commands the room. Commands respect. Some people have it and some people don't.
Our past two guys have not.
Press conferences for Rivera - meaningless
When ownership of the GM won't address fans with a press conference mid-season - a fireable offense!!
Press conferences for Rivera - meaningless
When ownership of the GM won't address fans with a press conference mid-season - a fireable offense!!
I don't know if I've seen this much twisting and turning in the history of this website.
Ron Rivera is now being uttered in the same vein as Jim Fassel (who wasn't a bad coach, btw) and Ray Handley.
And Rivera isn't even the Giants coach! (yet).
But they're already spinning the hire, before it even happens.
Quote:
exhibited here:
Press conferences for Rivera - meaningless
When ownership of the GM won't address fans with a press conference mid-season - a fireable offense!!
I don't know if I've seen this much twisting and turning in the history of this website.
Ron Rivera is now being uttered in the same vein as Jim Fassel (who wasn't a bad coach, btw) and Ray Handley.
And Rivera isn't even the Giants coach! (yet).
But they're already spinning the hire, before it even happens.
haven't you also been spinning the hire? before it happens?
Only on BBI would three division titles and a 15-1 Superbowl run be looked at as average... at best.
Only on BBI would three division titles and a 15-1 Superbowl run be looked at as average... at best.
Is there not some spin in there as well? equally accurate to say his team had a winning record in 3 of 9 seasons and won a total of 3 playoff games in that span.
So maybe he's had an overall body of work that contained mixed results and on balance could be argued to be pretty mediocre? Is it really impossible to see why some might find the prospect of hiring him to be highly uninspiring?
It wouldn't invalidate your support/enthusiasm. It would simply be a different viewpoint.
You need those to be not only in synch with the particular method, also to be great, great communicators within the coaching group,
but also those who have recently actually taught the basic techniques and language. Not just run the show. Probably add some coaching positions (technique for ol.db, as well as scheme for each week or what have you)
Because kids are coming out of college without those techniques and language not only at OL (ergo also rbs and QBs) but also someone mentioned, many colleges now play a very over simplified defensive backfield system as well.
I actually thought it would have been at least half......the Panthers always appeared to be to be prepared and competitive. Seems other than a few years, they are close but simply not good enough....as demonstrated by points for/points against which are relatively close every year.
Quote:
I just think he'd be a good hire.
Only on BBI would three division titles and a 15-1 Superbowl run be looked at as average... at best.
Is there not some spin in there as well? equally accurate to say his team had a winning record in 3 of 9 seasons and won a total of 3 playoff games in that span.
So maybe he's had an overall body of work that contained mixed results and on balance could be argued to be pretty mediocre? Is it really impossible to see why some might find the prospect of hiring him to be highly uninspiring?
It wouldn't invalidate your support/enthusiasm. It would simply be a different viewpoint.
I can understand that point of view, but I just don't consider it as putting a spin on anything.
I think the above, what you mentioned, is good enough. I'm not trying to inflate it or deflate it. I would be happy with the above results for the Giants right now.
For two, he took a 3-8-1 team, won four in a row, and won the division. Then, he won a playoff game. If this happened with the Giants, I would consider this a winning season. It is being used against him, here. It's no easy task when the odds are stacked against you to win four (playoff game makes 5) in a row or you don't go.
Is that even precedented?
Press conferences for Rivera - meaningless
When ownership of the GM won't address fans with a press conference mid-season - a fireable offense!!
Did Greg say the latter, bolded part? Answer that question. Don't dodge like you usually do.
--
"But BBI said" (the casual conflation of different posts from different posters) and the like are hands down the absolute shittiest, most low effort posts on this entire board.
Lots of individuals here with manifold opinions. Lazy poster meld them together to construct a straw man that they then illegitimately - and of course righteously - slam down (e.g. the above quoted nonsense.)
Is that even precedented?
Not sure, but the owner Dave Tepper probably has a reputation of making changes pronto if things aren't going the way he wants them............
Is that even precedented?
It's unusual, no doubt. But then you look to the comments from the owner. And it becomes clearer that he simply didn't see RR fitting in to the way they operationally wanted to do things going forward in terms of the use of technology/analytics and forward-thinking.
When I couple that interpretation with Gettleman's previous disdain / open mockery of such things, it gives me a whole lot of pause, to say the least.
But, I'll admit that I've already made up my mind firmly that they should be moving on from Gettleman as well. So my disappointment with a RR hiring would be less a function of any particular disdain for RR and more that they're leaving the reins with DG for another offseason with really important resources in play.
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Especially when your starting QB has been injured all year.
Is that even precedented?
Not sure, but the owner Dave Tepper probably has a reputation of making changes pronto if things aren't going the way he wants them............
And that's the other thing. I keep seeing that Tepper quote about he wants the approach where old school toughness meets modern analytics, etc....
Like all things, that sounds great in theory. But do we have any proven example of sustained success using this model? Ron Rivera is a football lifer. What's Tepper's football background? What if Tepper is making a big mistake here? But he's being praised, sight unseen.
Football, no matter how modern you make it, will always be a violent, emotional game played by human beings. The analytics may be able to tell you the probabilities of going for it on 4th down, or going for two, etc... But they will NEVER be able to tell you which Odell Beckham (for example) is going to show up every Sunday.
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In comment 14703810 Britt in VA said:
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Especially when your starting QB has been injured all year.
Is that even precedented?
Not sure, but the owner Dave Tepper probably has a reputation of making changes pronto if things aren't going the way he wants them............
And that's the other thing. I keep seeing that Tepper quote about he wants the approach where old school toughness meets modern analytics, etc....
Like all things, that sounds great in theory. But do we have any proven example of sustained success using this model? Ron Rivera is a football lifer. What's Tepper's football background? What if Tepper is making a big mistake here? But he's being praised, sight unseen.
Football, no matter how modern you make it, will always be a violent, emotional game played by human beings. The analytics may be able to tell you the probabilities of going for it on 4th down, or going for two, etc... But they will NEVER be able to tell you which Odell Beckham (for example) is going to show up every Sunday.
Good post Britt, let’s judge Tepper’s moves 3 or 4 years down the road.
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In comment 14703810 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Especially when your starting QB has been injured all year.
Is that even precedented?
Not sure, but the owner Dave Tepper probably has a reputation of making changes pronto if things aren't going the way he wants them............
And that's the other thing. I keep seeing that Tepper quote about he wants the approach where old school toughness meets modern analytics, etc....
Like all things, that sounds great in theory. But do we have any proven example of sustained success using this model? Ron Rivera is a football lifer. What's Tepper's football background? What if Tepper is making a big mistake here? But he's being praised, sight unseen.
Football, no matter how modern you make it, will always be a violent, emotional game played by human beings. The analytics may be able to tell you the probabilities of going for it on 4th down, or going for two, etc... But they will NEVER be able to tell you which Odell Beckham (for example) is going to show up every Sunday.
What was that old NFL Films line from Bum Phillips, when asked about the Cowboys who were one of the first teams to start using computers to scouting and such:
Paraphrasing: "I don't care what the computer says. Can you block your man? Then block him!".
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But by God the man gives a terrific press conference, and that's what wins football games.
Again, by your account Bill B should never have hired by the Patriots. He had 1 winning season in 5 years and was sub .500 for his tenure in Cleveland...
That's what I was thinking. Imagine if BB doesn't get a second chance.
Hell, our guys don't make good decisions when they aren't desperate so no telling what this would lead to...
We could do a hell of a lot worse. In my opinion, its either Rivera or rolling the dice on another OC/DC (which I personally would hate).
We could do a hell of a lot worse. In my opinion, its either Rivera or rolling the dice on another OC/DC (which I personally would hate).
And for you guys saying he has only had winning seasons 3 out of 8 times, thats a strawman. His 7-9 season he won the division, and did a great job turning the team around after a bad start. I've read he considers that his best coaching season.
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Very few have his experience or success. Remember no HC has had just success (at least not in decades). This guy has been a HC, won bigly at certain times, and made the playoffs 50% of the time (not counting this season).
We could do a hell of a lot worse. In my opinion, its either Rivera or rolling the dice on another OC/DC (which I personally would hate).
And for you guys saying he has only had winning seasons 3 out of 8 times, thats a strawman. His 7-9 season he won the division, and did a great job turning the team around after a bad start. I've read he considers that his best coaching season.
"an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument."
There is nothing misrepresented. It was in fact a losing season. The only reason they made the playoffs was because they played in the shittiest division in football that year. It was historically awful year for the division. Every team had a losing record. He won the playoff game, good job. The year before, the team was 12-4. One hell of a decline. He had to win 4 games in a row to win the division. It is legitimate to question that season.