Only on BBI would three division titles and a 15-1 Superbowl run be looked at as average... at best.
Is there not some spin in there as well? equally accurate to say his team had a winning record in 3 of 9 seasons and won a total of 3 playoff games in that span.
So maybe he's had an overall body of work that contained mixed results and on balance could be argued to be pretty mediocre? Is it really impossible to see why some might find the prospect of hiring him to be highly uninspiring?
It wouldn't invalidate your support/enthusiasm. It would simply be a different viewpoint.
Im guessing the assistant coaches and positional coaches are a bit of a rush mash
You need those to be not only in synch with the particular method, also to be great, great communicators within the coaching group,
but also those who have recently actually taught the basic techniques and language. Not just run the show. Probably add some coaching positions (technique for ol.db, as well as scheme for each week or what have you)
Because kids are coming out of college without those techniques and language not only at OL (ergo also rbs and QBs) but also someone mentioned, many colleges now play a very over simplified defensive backfield system as well.
...but just three winning seasons in 9 years. That's not really impressive.
I actually thought it would have been at least half......the Panthers always appeared to be to be prepared and competitive. Seems other than a few years, they are close but simply not good enough....as demonstrated by points for/points against which are relatively close every year.
RE: RE: I'm not trying to discredit the guy's career to make a point. Â
Only on BBI would three division titles and a 15-1 Superbowl run be looked at as average... at best.
Is there not some spin in there as well? equally accurate to say his team had a winning record in 3 of 9 seasons and won a total of 3 playoff games in that span.
So maybe he's had an overall body of work that contained mixed results and on balance could be argued to be pretty mediocre? Is it really impossible to see why some might find the prospect of hiring him to be highly uninspiring?
It wouldn't invalidate your support/enthusiasm. It would simply be a different viewpoint.
I can understand that point of view, but I just don't consider it as putting a spin on anything.
I think the above, what you mentioned, is good enough. I'm not trying to inflate it or deflate it. I would be happy with the above results for the Giants right now.
Another problem I have is this 3 out of 9 winning seasons thing..... Â
For one, this season is incomplete. He's fired at 5-7. That's incomplete. I don't think this season should be used as a knock when a. his QB has been injured all season and b. he's 2 games away from .500 with 4 to play.
For two, he took a 3-8-1 team, won four in a row, and won the division. Then, he won a playoff game. If this happened with the Giants, I would consider this a winning season. It is being used against him, here. It's no easy task when the odds are stacked against you to win four (playoff game makes 5) in a row or you don't go.
And frankly, being fired at 5-7 is pretty shocking. Â
When ownership of the GM won't address fans with a press conference mid-season - a fireable offense!!
Did Greg say the latter, bolded part? Answer that question. Don't dodge like you usually do.
--
"But BBI said" (the casual conflation of different posts from different posters) and the like are hands down the absolute shittiest, most low effort posts on this entire board.
Lots of individuals here with manifold opinions. Lazy poster meld them together to construct a straw man that they then illegitimately - and of course righteously - slam down (e.g. the above quoted nonsense.)
RE: And frankly, being fired at 5-7 is pretty shocking. Â
Especially when your starting QB has been injured all year.
Is that even precedented?
It's unusual, no doubt. But then you look to the comments from the owner. And it becomes clearer that he simply didn't see RR fitting in to the way they operationally wanted to do things going forward in terms of the use of technology/analytics and forward-thinking.
When I couple that interpretation with Gettleman's previous disdain / open mockery of such things, it gives me a whole lot of pause, to say the least.
But, I'll admit that I've already made up my mind firmly that they should be moving on from Gettleman as well. So my disappointment with a RR hiring would be less a function of any particular disdain for RR and more that they're leaving the reins with DG for another offseason with really important resources in play.
RE: RE: And frankly, being fired at 5-7 is pretty shocking. Â
Especially when your starting QB has been injured all year.
Is that even precedented?
Not sure, but the owner Dave Tepper probably has a reputation of making changes pronto if things aren't going the way he wants them............
And that's the other thing. I keep seeing that Tepper quote about he wants the approach where old school toughness meets modern analytics, etc....
Like all things, that sounds great in theory. But do we have any proven example of sustained success using this model? Ron Rivera is a football lifer. What's Tepper's football background? What if Tepper is making a big mistake here? But he's being praised, sight unseen.
Football, no matter how modern you make it, will always be a violent, emotional game played by human beings. The analytics may be able to tell you the probabilities of going for it on 4th down, or going for two, etc... But they will NEVER be able to tell you which Odell Beckham (for example) is going to show up every Sunday.
RE: RE: RE: And frankly, being fired at 5-7 is pretty shocking. Â
Especially when your starting QB has been injured all year.
Is that even precedented?
Not sure, but the owner Dave Tepper probably has a reputation of making changes pronto if things aren't going the way he wants them............
And that's the other thing. I keep seeing that Tepper quote about he wants the approach where old school toughness meets modern analytics, etc....
Like all things, that sounds great in theory. But do we have any proven example of sustained success using this model? Ron Rivera is a football lifer. What's Tepper's football background? What if Tepper is making a big mistake here? But he's being praised, sight unseen.
Football, no matter how modern you make it, will always be a violent, emotional game played by human beings. The analytics may be able to tell you the probabilities of going for it on 4th down, or going for two, etc... But they will NEVER be able to tell you which Odell Beckham (for example) is going to show up every Sunday.
Good post Britt, let’s judge Tepper’s moves 3 or 4 years down the road.
RE: RE: RE: And frankly, being fired at 5-7 is pretty shocking. Â
Especially when your starting QB has been injured all year.
Is that even precedented?
Not sure, but the owner Dave Tepper probably has a reputation of making changes pronto if things aren't going the way he wants them............
And that's the other thing. I keep seeing that Tepper quote about he wants the approach where old school toughness meets modern analytics, etc....
Like all things, that sounds great in theory. But do we have any proven example of sustained success using this model? Ron Rivera is a football lifer. What's Tepper's football background? What if Tepper is making a big mistake here? But he's being praised, sight unseen.
Football, no matter how modern you make it, will always be a violent, emotional game played by human beings. The analytics may be able to tell you the probabilities of going for it on 4th down, or going for two, etc... But they will NEVER be able to tell you which Odell Beckham (for example) is going to show up every Sunday.
What was that old NFL Films line from Bum Phillips, when asked about the Cowboys who were one of the first teams to start using computers to scouting and such:
Paraphrasing: "I don't care what the computer says. Can you block your man? Then block him!".
But by God the man gives a terrific press conference, and that's what wins football games.
Again, by your account Bill B should never have hired by the Patriots. He had 1 winning season in 5 years and was sub .500 for his tenure in Cleveland...
That's what I was thinking. Imagine if BB doesn't get a second chance.
Very few have his experience or success. Remember no HC has had just success (at least not in decades). This guy has been a HC, won bigly at certain times, and made the playoffs 50% of the time (not counting this season).
We could do a hell of a lot worse. In my opinion, its either Rivera or rolling the dice on another OC/DC (which I personally would hate).
RE: Rivera will be one of the strongest HC's on the market Â
Very few have his experience or success. Remember no HC has had just success (at least not in decades). This guy has been a HC, won bigly at certain times, and made the playoffs 50% of the time (not counting this season).
We could do a hell of a lot worse. In my opinion, its either Rivera or rolling the dice on another OC/DC (which I personally would hate).
And for you guys saying he has only had winning seasons 3 out of 8 times, thats a strawman. His 7-9 season he won the division, and did a great job turning the team around after a bad start. I've read he considers that his best coaching season.
RE: RE: Rivera will be one of the strongest HC's on the market Â
Very few have his experience or success. Remember no HC has had just success (at least not in decades). This guy has been a HC, won bigly at certain times, and made the playoffs 50% of the time (not counting this season).
We could do a hell of a lot worse. In my opinion, its either Rivera or rolling the dice on another OC/DC (which I personally would hate).
And for you guys saying he has only had winning seasons 3 out of 8 times, thats a strawman. His 7-9 season he won the division, and did a great job turning the team around after a bad start. I've read he considers that his best coaching season.
You don't know what Strawman is, You should not use it.
"an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument."
There is nothing misrepresented. It was in fact a losing season. The only reason they made the playoffs was because they played in the shittiest division in football that year. It was historically awful year for the division. Every team had a losing record. He won the playoff game, good job. The year before, the team was 12-4. One hell of a decline. He had to win 4 games in a row to win the division. It is legitimate to question that season.
Only on BBI would three division titles and a 15-1 Superbowl run be looked at as average... at best.
Is there not some spin in there as well? equally accurate to say his team had a winning record in 3 of 9 seasons and won a total of 3 playoff games in that span.
So maybe he's had an overall body of work that contained mixed results and on balance could be argued to be pretty mediocre? Is it really impossible to see why some might find the prospect of hiring him to be highly uninspiring?
It wouldn't invalidate your support/enthusiasm. It would simply be a different viewpoint.
You need those to be not only in synch with the particular method, also to be great, great communicators within the coaching group,
but also those who have recently actually taught the basic techniques and language. Not just run the show. Probably add some coaching positions (technique for ol.db, as well as scheme for each week or what have you)
Because kids are coming out of college without those techniques and language not only at OL (ergo also rbs and QBs) but also someone mentioned, many colleges now play a very over simplified defensive backfield system as well.
I actually thought it would have been at least half......the Panthers always appeared to be to be prepared and competitive. Seems other than a few years, they are close but simply not good enough....as demonstrated by points for/points against which are relatively close every year.
Quote:
I just think he'd be a good hire.
Only on BBI would three division titles and a 15-1 Superbowl run be looked at as average... at best.
Is there not some spin in there as well? equally accurate to say his team had a winning record in 3 of 9 seasons and won a total of 3 playoff games in that span.
So maybe he's had an overall body of work that contained mixed results and on balance could be argued to be pretty mediocre? Is it really impossible to see why some might find the prospect of hiring him to be highly uninspiring?
It wouldn't invalidate your support/enthusiasm. It would simply be a different viewpoint.
I can understand that point of view, but I just don't consider it as putting a spin on anything.
I think the above, what you mentioned, is good enough. I'm not trying to inflate it or deflate it. I would be happy with the above results for the Giants right now.
For two, he took a 3-8-1 team, won four in a row, and won the division. Then, he won a playoff game. If this happened with the Giants, I would consider this a winning season. It is being used against him, here. It's no easy task when the odds are stacked against you to win four (playoff game makes 5) in a row or you don't go.
Is that even precedented?
Press conferences for Rivera - meaningless
When ownership of the GM won't address fans with a press conference mid-season - a fireable offense!!
Did Greg say the latter, bolded part? Answer that question. Don't dodge like you usually do.
--
"But BBI said" (the casual conflation of different posts from different posters) and the like are hands down the absolute shittiest, most low effort posts on this entire board.
Lots of individuals here with manifold opinions. Lazy poster meld them together to construct a straw man that they then illegitimately - and of course righteously - slam down (e.g. the above quoted nonsense.)
Is that even precedented?
Not sure, but the owner Dave Tepper probably has a reputation of making changes pronto if things aren't going the way he wants them............
Is that even precedented?
It's unusual, no doubt. But then you look to the comments from the owner. And it becomes clearer that he simply didn't see RR fitting in to the way they operationally wanted to do things going forward in terms of the use of technology/analytics and forward-thinking.
When I couple that interpretation with Gettleman's previous disdain / open mockery of such things, it gives me a whole lot of pause, to say the least.
But, I'll admit that I've already made up my mind firmly that they should be moving on from Gettleman as well. So my disappointment with a RR hiring would be less a function of any particular disdain for RR and more that they're leaving the reins with DG for another offseason with really important resources in play.
Quote:
Especially when your starting QB has been injured all year.
Is that even precedented?
Not sure, but the owner Dave Tepper probably has a reputation of making changes pronto if things aren't going the way he wants them............
And that's the other thing. I keep seeing that Tepper quote about he wants the approach where old school toughness meets modern analytics, etc....
Like all things, that sounds great in theory. But do we have any proven example of sustained success using this model? Ron Rivera is a football lifer. What's Tepper's football background? What if Tepper is making a big mistake here? But he's being praised, sight unseen.
Football, no matter how modern you make it, will always be a violent, emotional game played by human beings. The analytics may be able to tell you the probabilities of going for it on 4th down, or going for two, etc... But they will NEVER be able to tell you which Odell Beckham (for example) is going to show up every Sunday.
Quote:
In comment 14703810 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Especially when your starting QB has been injured all year.
Is that even precedented?
Not sure, but the owner Dave Tepper probably has a reputation of making changes pronto if things aren't going the way he wants them............
And that's the other thing. I keep seeing that Tepper quote about he wants the approach where old school toughness meets modern analytics, etc....
Like all things, that sounds great in theory. But do we have any proven example of sustained success using this model? Ron Rivera is a football lifer. What's Tepper's football background? What if Tepper is making a big mistake here? But he's being praised, sight unseen.
Football, no matter how modern you make it, will always be a violent, emotional game played by human beings. The analytics may be able to tell you the probabilities of going for it on 4th down, or going for two, etc... But they will NEVER be able to tell you which Odell Beckham (for example) is going to show up every Sunday.
Good post Britt, let’s judge Tepper’s moves 3 or 4 years down the road.
Quote:
In comment 14703810 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Especially when your starting QB has been injured all year.
Is that even precedented?
Not sure, but the owner Dave Tepper probably has a reputation of making changes pronto if things aren't going the way he wants them............
And that's the other thing. I keep seeing that Tepper quote about he wants the approach where old school toughness meets modern analytics, etc....
Like all things, that sounds great in theory. But do we have any proven example of sustained success using this model? Ron Rivera is a football lifer. What's Tepper's football background? What if Tepper is making a big mistake here? But he's being praised, sight unseen.
Football, no matter how modern you make it, will always be a violent, emotional game played by human beings. The analytics may be able to tell you the probabilities of going for it on 4th down, or going for two, etc... But they will NEVER be able to tell you which Odell Beckham (for example) is going to show up every Sunday.
What was that old NFL Films line from Bum Phillips, when asked about the Cowboys who were one of the first teams to start using computers to scouting and such:
Paraphrasing: "I don't care what the computer says. Can you block your man? Then block him!".
Quote:
But by God the man gives a terrific press conference, and that's what wins football games.
Again, by your account Bill B should never have hired by the Patriots. He had 1 winning season in 5 years and was sub .500 for his tenure in Cleveland...
That's what I was thinking. Imagine if BB doesn't get a second chance.
Hell, our guys don't make good decisions when they aren't desperate so no telling what this would lead to...
We could do a hell of a lot worse. In my opinion, its either Rivera or rolling the dice on another OC/DC (which I personally would hate).
We could do a hell of a lot worse. In my opinion, its either Rivera or rolling the dice on another OC/DC (which I personally would hate).
And for you guys saying he has only had winning seasons 3 out of 8 times, thats a strawman. His 7-9 season he won the division, and did a great job turning the team around after a bad start. I've read he considers that his best coaching season.
Quote:
Very few have his experience or success. Remember no HC has had just success (at least not in decades). This guy has been a HC, won bigly at certain times, and made the playoffs 50% of the time (not counting this season).
We could do a hell of a lot worse. In my opinion, its either Rivera or rolling the dice on another OC/DC (which I personally would hate).
And for you guys saying he has only had winning seasons 3 out of 8 times, thats a strawman. His 7-9 season he won the division, and did a great job turning the team around after a bad start. I've read he considers that his best coaching season.
"an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument."
There is nothing misrepresented. It was in fact a losing season. The only reason they made the playoffs was because they played in the shittiest division in football that year. It was historically awful year for the division. Every team had a losing record. He won the playoff game, good job. The year before, the team was 12-4. One hell of a decline. He had to win 4 games in a row to win the division. It is legitimate to question that season.