NFT: Yankees all in on Gerrit Cole

Gotta say, I am impressed at the attention to detail and the competitive relentlessness of the Yankees organization.

Trying to build a machine.

Fun to be a Yankees fan

In comment 14703615 mdthedream said:

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will go with Hicks in center,Judge in right and at this time Frazier and Gardy in left/ Let Stanton DH and play first. Voit at first,Lemahieu at 2nd,Torresat ss,Ursella at 3rd or Andujar depends on trade,Sanchez behind the plate. Nice thing is we only need to focus on trading and signing starters and maybe a steal Relieve pitcher.

Disagree. I think Stanton splits time between LF and DH with Gardy being the 4th OF and Frazier being shit of of luck. Either he gets traded or has to rely in an injury to crack that outfield.

I think there's a better chance of them signing Tauchman and him being above Frazier for an outfield spot than Frazier outright earning playing time out there.

In comment 14704492 Eman11 said:

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In comment 14703615 mdthedream said: Quote: I think there's a better chance of them signing Tauchman and him being above Frazier for an outfield spot than Frazier outright earning playing time out there.

Tauchman is already on the 40 man roster...

Jeff Passan that the Yanks are all in on Cole...with approval from Hal.

About to get interesting.

In comment 14704520 section125 said:

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In comment 14704492 Eman11 said: Quote: In comment 14703615 mdthedream said: Quote: I think there's a better chance of them signing Tauchman and him being above Frazier for an outfield spot than Frazier outright earning playing time out there. Tauchman is already on the 40 man roster...

Thanks Section.

Clearly I missed that but I'm glad he is and definitely think this hurts Fraziers's chances for getting significant playing time.

see prospects with promise fall by the wayside. It’s one thing to hear about a prospect or two every couple or so years when they knock on the door and get mentioned in the papers. We’ve just had so many that never materialized due to injuries or lack of performance. I realize baseball is a numbers game and that the Yanks probably have hit as good of a percentage as any, but it’s good to see them doing everything they can to improve. This is just such a better strategy. When you think about it, the 25M they were paying to have Ellsbury sit on his couch could have gone a long way in staffing and equipping minor league development system.

One more thing I’d like to see them work on is the prep scouting department. The Latin program is very good, the 2014 debacle aside, but their prep picks have been err less than exemplary...

In comment 14704826 Eman11 said:

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Thanks Section. Clearly I missed that but I'm glad he is and definitely think this hurts Fraziers' chances for getting significant playing time.

I think Frazier may be traded, but I also think Cashman likes him a lot. He is not a CF candidate in the least, but I don't know what happened last year that his defense went so far south. He was not that bad in LF(not great but certainly MLB quality). I also don't get this narrative between RF and LF being so different. They are not. Either you can play OF or you cannot. CF is different only in the range needed.
Frazier was originally a third baseman(IIRC). But a player of that athletic ability should be able to play a more than competent OF.

In comment 14704829 Jim in Hoboken said:

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see prospects with promise fall by the wayside. It’s one thing to hear about a prospect or two every couple or so years when they knock on the door and get mentioned in the papers. We’ve just had so many that never materialized due to injuries or lack of performance. I realize baseball is a numbers game and that the Yanks probably have hit as good of a percentage as any, but it’s good to see them doing everything they can to improve. This is just such a better strategy. When you think about it, the 25M they were paying to have Ellsbury sit on his couch could have gone a long way in staffing and equipping minor league development system. One more thing I’d like to see them work on is the prep scouting department. The Latin program is very good, the 2014 debacle aside, but their prep picks have been err less than exemplary...

I don't know if it's scouting or what, but they've largely stayed away from preps. They'll draft a couple they consider to be elite and a few more they don't intend to sign, but it's not uncommon for them to come out of a draft with just 3 or 4 preps. We will see what happens with Volpe and Seigler, but yeah the returns have not necessarily been great.

he hasn’t been given more of an opportunity. Cashman likes to accumulate bargains indiscriminately, Maybin, Tauchman, etc, but he hasn’t gone out of his way to clear a path for Frazier. Injuries, histrionics, and defense didn’t help, but Frazier has sort of been buried. At this point, just trade the guy before he has negative value.

In comment 14704868 Jim in Hoboken said:

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he hasn’t been given more of an opportunity. Cashman likes to accumulate bargains indiscriminately, Maybin, Tauchman, etc, but he hasn’t gone out of his way to clear a path for Frazier. Injuries, histrionics, and defense didn’t help, but Frazier has sort of been buried. At this point, just trade the guy before he has negative value.

Why I disagree - why would Cash devalue him if he want to get rid of him? Sonny Gray was one thing, Frazier is different. Frazier being a highly sought after prospect with MLB proven bat should get a good return even with his defensive problems which I think can be easily solved.

Guess we just read Cashman differently. There is no doubt the offense is there. He has speed and a good arm. But it appears he has a 2 cent brain.

Frazier has been buried because who was he going to play ahead of? Stanton? Hicks? Judge? Gardner? At least with Gardner, Frazier may be better offensively. Can't touch Gardy in the outfield. Tauchman was brought in out of desperation and excelled. Frazier should have been ahead of Tauchman but Tauchman can play CF.

And some of the flaws in his game (defense, inconsistency at the plate) have been clear for all the league to see. I like him, I think he can be a useful player and potentially a big-league regular, but his trade value is not what it was a couple years ago, not even close.

I think Frazier is on Frazier

In comment 14703623 Dankbeerman said:

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In comment 14703598 Thankyoueli said: Quote: I feel bad for how he's wasting away, he can easily be a 270./30 HR guy right now. I think we need both Clint and Andujar in the lineup everyday. dont want to say regardless of deffense but just make it work. If Frazier cant play LF better then Stanton he can DH. If Andjuar cant play 3rd let him try 1st. Im all in on trading Urshella. I think he is at peak value right now and dont like that he cant play the middle infield if he doesnt hit he doent have the flexability to be the defensive utility guy.

+1

I wouldn't be opposed to fielding offers. But let's see where Andujar is offensively as well as defensively. Considering injuries, you could end up with a team defense that is just meh on the whole, league average or even a bit below.

I seriously doubt he would've been sent down last season when he was hitting well if not for the fact Cameron Maybin was in the midst of a hot streak too and has no options.

@pgammo
Jon is right. They were not denied. Dodgers, Angels will soon learn.

@JonHeyman
Hear Yankees “total focus” right now is on Gerrit Cole. PHI, TEX, LAD, LAA are other teams known to be in but Yankees don’t want to be denied.

In comment 14706264 PetesHereNow said:

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@pgammo Jon is right. They were not denied. Dodgers, Angels will soon learn. @JonHeyman Hear Yankees “total focus” right now is on Gerrit Cole. PHI, TEX, LAD, LAA are other teams known to be in but Yankees don’t want to be denied.

That Gammons tweet kinda makes it sound like it’s a done deal, no?

Unless Gammons had too many mimosas, I’m not sure how else it can be read.

Andy Martino
@martinonyc
Several agents say Yankees appear to have back burnered other business while trying to finishGerrit Cole negotiations. This has a CC in ‘09, they won’t be denied vibe

Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
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4m
The Gerrit Cole sweepstakes is moving to the point where teams will be making initial offers in the coming days, sources tell ESPN. The three favorites remain the New York Yankees, Los Angeles Angels and Los Angeles Dodgers.

I’m going to say 8/288 or 7/266 I think the Yanks will definitely try to dial up the average to shorten the years but can’t see them getting below 7. I think he will want 10 and I can’t see it shorter than 7. Would guess a 3 year player opt out too

In comment 14706338 NoGainDayne said:

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I’m going to say 8/288 or 7/266 I think the Yanks will definitely try to dial up the average to shorten the years but can’t see them getting below 7. I think he will want 10 and I can’t see it shorter than 7. Would guess a 3 year player opt out too

My guess is 7 years at $245M with a team option for year 8 that includes a $5M buyout, so actually 7 years $250M or 8 years $280M. Probably too optimistic on my part, but I would hesitate to go higher or longer.

In comment 14706272 Ryan in Albany said:

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Andy Martino @martinonyc Several agents say Yankees appear to have back burnered other business while trying to finishGerrit Cole negotiations. This has a CC in ‘09, they won’t be denied vibe

Lets hope this is true. Pettite who played for both Astros and Yanks in on negotiations and I think CC who was considering left coast before signing with us spoke with Cole too.

Full court press. Hal may finally open up the purse strings for the big kahuna SP.

hope they are running up the tab for another team

In comment 14706361 Milton said:

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In comment 14706338 NoGainDayne said: Quote: I’m going to say 8/288 or 7/266 I think the Yanks will definitely try to dial up the average to shorten the years but can’t see them getting below 7. I think he will want 10 and I can’t see it shorter than 7. Would guess a 3 year player opt out too My guess is 7 years at $245M with a team option for year 8 that includes a $5M buyout, so actually 7 years $250M or 8 years $280M. Probably too optimistic on my part, but I would hesitate to go higher or longer.

Just a guess, but I doubt the numbers you offered get it done.

The more realistic numbers at 7 years STARTING at $252M, likely approaching $266M, or 8 years STARTING at $288 and likely approaching $304M.

I also suspect that there will be at least one buyout point- likely in 2022 or 2023- after the new labor deal is done, so he can see if he can beat those numbers based on the new CBA terms.

Peter Gammons
@pgammo
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57s
Gerrit Cole will go into New York for his age 29 season, and in 2018 averaged 102 pitches in 33 starts, didn't get to 100 in a third of them, got the 'Stros to the 7th 29 times, did not go past 113 Ps until his high of 118 in Game 1 vs. Tampa.

In comment 14706409 rich in DC said:

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In comment 14706361 Milton said: Quote: In comment 14706338 NoGainDayne said: Quote: I’m going to say 8/288 or 7/266 I think the Yanks will definitely try to dial up the average to shorten the years but can’t see them getting below 7. I think he will want 10 and I can’t see it shorter than 7. Would guess a 3 year player opt out too My guess is 7 years at $245M with a team option for year 8 that includes a $5M buyout, so actually 7 years $250M or 8 years $280M. Probably too optimistic on my part, but I would hesitate to go higher or longer. Just a guess, but I doubt the numbers you offered get it done. The more realistic numbers at 7 years STARTING at $252M, likely approaching $266M, or 8 years STARTING at $288 and likely approaching $304M. I also suspect that there will be at least one buyout point- likely in 2022 or 2023- after the new labor deal is done, so he can see if he can beat those numbers based on the new CBA terms.

Yeah I think my numbers are too reasonable and the final numbers will be unreasonable. On the other hand, teams have been more cost conscious than expected in the free agent market the past two years. They may be better off signing him to a 10-year deal closer to $30M/year than a 7 or 8 year deal that could top $35M/year.

with CC Sabathia. From the reports that we are hearing on the Yankees not being denied and putting down the hammer, CC described his negotiations with the Yankees. He said at the start of the offseason, Cashman made it clear that the Yankees were going to get him and pretty much said it in the press. He said he never got a serious offer from anyone, other than a passing offer by the Angels and Brewers. But the Yankees plunked down the $161M contract and the rest of the league knew that they just weren't going to outbid the Yankees and didn't want to bother wasting any of their time.

This Cole situation really does seem like CC all over again. The Yankees have gotten word out to the other GMs to essentially don't bother trying. And from the way the 2nd tier has been scooped up quickly (Wheeler, etc) it would seem that teams know the Angels and Dodgers will turn their eyes there next once the Yankees polish off Cole and they wanted to get them off the board now.

In comment 14706472 Matt in SGS said:

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with CC Sabathia. From the reports that we are hearing on the Yankees not being denied and putting down the hammer, CC described his negotiations with the Yankees. He said at the start of the offseason, Cashman made it clear that the Yankees were going to get him and pretty much said it in the press. He said he never got a serious offer from anyone, other than a passing offer by the Angels and Brewers. But the Yankees plunked down the $161M contract and the rest of the league knew that they just weren't going to outbid the Yankees and didn't want to bother wasting any of their time. This Cole situation really does seem like CC all over again. The Yankees have gotten word out to the other GMs to essentially don't bother trying. And from the way the 2nd tier has been scooped up quickly (Wheeler, etc) it would seem that teams know the Angels and Dodgers will turn their eyes there next once the Yankees polish off Cole and they wanted to get them off the board now.

People comparing this to the Corbin 'chase' last year make me laugh. This definitely has rhat CC Sabathia negotiations vibe. It certainly sounds like we are all in and have firmly grabbed his attention. Doesnt guarantee anything but at this point I would be a bit surprised if we don't get him.

1. Try and trade Happ and his 17m
2. Bring in another high contact lower strikeout guy to better balance out the line up. DJ and Gleyber and to a lesser extent Judge ....we need another to complement the high power but high K guys in the line up especially for postseason baseball when mistake pitches are fewer and further between.


Honestly the rest they do after that is gravy. The team would be pretty stacked and playoff equipped with those 2 additions (Cole and high contact/low K hitter) alone.

Sooner rather than later. I don't think the CC negotiations dragged out to long.

In comment 14706900 Giantz_comeback said:

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Sooner rather than later. I don't think the CC negotiations dragged out to long.

Believe CC was signed on Dec 10th....

In comment 14706906 section125 said:

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In comment 14706900 Giantz_comeback said: Quote: Sooner rather than later. I don't think the CC negotiations dragged out to long. Believe CC was signed on Dec 10th....

A few reports said he negotiations should really pick up this week. Was CC a Boras client too?

Bob Klapisch
@BobKlap
·
11m
I'm told #Yankees have a seven-year, $245 million offer on the table for Gerrit Cole. Would be a record-setting contract for a pitcher, surpassing Greinke’s $34.4 million AAV. Question is whether #Dodgers or #Angels will go to 8-9 or even 10 years.

In comment 14707339 Ryan in Albany said:

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Bob Klapisch @BobKlap · 11m I'm told #Yankees have a seven-year, $245 million offer on the table for Gerrit Cole. Would be a record-setting contract for a pitcher, surpassing Greinke’s $34.4 million AAV. Question is whether #Dodgers or #Angels will go to 8-9 or even 10 years.

Moreno vs Steinbrenner...here we go. Cole and Boras sit back and watch with a bottle of Champagne.

In comment 14707339 Ryan in Albany said:

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Bob Klapisch @BobKlap · 11m I'm told #Yankees have a seven-year, $245 million offer on the table for Gerrit Cole. Would be a record-setting contract for a pitcher, surpassing Greinke’s $34.4 million AAV. Question is whether #Dodgers or #Angels will go to 8-9 or even 10 years.

I want Cole as much as anyone, but if one of those teams are willing to go to 9 or 10 years, they can have him. That contract would take him until he’s almost 40. Ludicrous

In comment 14707349 BigBlueShock said:

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In comment 14707339 Ryan in Albany said: Quote: Bob Klapisch @BobKlap · 11m I'm told #Yankees have a seven-year, $245 million offer on the table for Gerrit Cole. Would be a record-setting contract for a pitcher, surpassing Greinke’s $34.4 million AAV. Question is whether #Dodgers or #Angels will go to 8-9 or even 10 years. I want Cole as much as anyone, but if one of those teams are willing to go to 9 or 10 years, they can have him. That contract would take him until he’s almost 40. Ludicrous

I think the Yanks will go 8 years. Cole looks to be built like Verlander and Scherzer. I believe he can pitch to age 37.

In comment 14707355 section125 said:

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In comment 14707349 BigBlueShock said: Quote: In comment 14707339 Ryan in Albany said: Quote: Bob Klapisch @BobKlap · 11m I'm told #Yankees have a seven-year, $245 million offer on the table for Gerrit Cole. Would be a record-setting contract for a pitcher, surpassing Greinke’s $34.4 million AAV. Question is whether #Dodgers or #Angels will go to 8-9 or even 10 years. I want Cole as much as anyone, but if one of those teams are willing to go to 9 or 10 years, they can have him. That contract would take him until he’s almost 40. Ludicrous I think the Yanks will go 8 years. Cole looks to be built like Verlander and Scherzer. I believe he can pitch to age 37.

Yes I think we would go 8.

He’s the undeniable staff ace needed to win a title.

I haven’t seen a thread on this, but Marvin Miller, the MLBPA leader from the 1970s, and Ted Simmons (terrific cardinals catcher) were voted into the hall of fame by the veterans committee. If Simmons got in (and he is deserving), then Munson surely has to get in because he was the best catcher in the 1970s not named Bench and the only reason he didn’t put up better numbers was due to tragedy

Munson is borderline now if you look at WAR, JAWS, etc. But he's a lot more productive/valuable than Molina and comparable to Posey (Posey's career could go a couple different directions) and both seem likely to get in.

He would have been an easy HOFer if he had lived to finish out a longer career. RoY, MVP, and a major contributor to two championship teams - in 30 playoff games, he hit .357/.378/.496.

some form of "The Dodgers have not engaged with Boras on Cole" which could simply mean they haven't made their initial offer yet or it could mean they think 7 years is too long for a pitcher.

In comment 14708185 dpinzow said:

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He’s the undeniable staff ace needed to win a title. I haven’t seen a thread on this, but Marvin Miller, the MLBPA leader from the 1970s, and Ted Simmons (terrific cardinals catcher) were voted into the hall of fame by the veterans committee. If Simmons got in (and he is deserving), then Munson surely has to get in because he was the best catcher in the 1970s not named Bench and the only reason he didn’t put up better numbers was due to tragedy

.

Good to see Marvin Miller finally get in, as an FYI,
not called the 'veteran's committee' anymore, that changed a few years back, now a 'Modern Day Committee'.
It is 16 ex-players, executives, etc.
You have to get 12 out of 16 votes from them or 75% (similar to regular vote on ballot)....
was hoping Munson and Donnie Baseball would get in,
but didn't think it would happen.
Munson just didn't play long enough, Simmons played 21 years for example. If Thurm would have played maybe
15 years, but unfortunately that wasn't meant to be.

In comment 14708240 Greg from LI said:

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He would have been an easy HOFer if he had lived to finish out a longer career. RoY, MVP, and a major contributor to two championship teams - in 30 playoff games, he hit .357/.378/.496.

Another cool stat- Thurman played in 16 WS games and hit safely in all but 1. Guy won 3 gold gloves, 7 AS appearances in 10 seasons(when making the AS game was a feat and another HOF C in the AL at the time) incredibly clutch hitter. Only got 3 votes yesterday. I just don't understand how little support he's gotten over the years.

It was the 1976 World Series. Munson was at the plate and there is a huddle on the mound to discuss pitching to him. Finally Sparky Anderson says, "It doesn't matter how we pitch him, he's gonna get a hit." Munson went 9 for 17 in the series.

but Munson doesn't

In comment 14708837 Milton said:

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It was the 1976 World Series. Munson was at the plate and there is a huddle on the mound to discuss pitching to him. Finally Sparky Anderson says, "It doesn't matter how we pitch him, he's gonna get a hit." Munson went 9 for 17 in the series.

That really was a golden era for C's. You had HOFer's Fisk/Carter/Bench and now Simmons plus Munson. Making either leagues AS team there was a herculean feat.

In comment 14708841 Greg from LI said:

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but Munson doesn't

Especially bc Puckett turned out to be a scumbag after his retirement. But the writers all loved him in his playing days

In comment 14708841 Greg from LI said:

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but Munson doesn't

Exactly. The longevity argument makes no sense. Make the requirement 15 years instead of 10 if you don't feel 10 is enough.

Nats 7yrs/$245....

Project Cole now 8yrs/$300...oh Boy!