Per Andy Martino, the Yankees are all in for him and haven’t been this hot for a top free agent in years.
Today’s reports from guys like Sherman and Heyman indicate the meeting went well and the Yankees assured Cole the money will be there and Cole in turn eased Yankees concerns over the perceived industry belief that he prefers the west coast. Passan says Cole’s top priorities are winning and being the best pitcher of his generation.
Before the off-season, I was very pessimistic about our chances because how the FO has operated the past few years and the hesitancy to go over the third tier of the luxury tax. But, I think Coles the guy that Cashman, the FO, and analytics team determined is worth going over the third tier, though I think they’ll try to unload some guys like Happ. Also, Paxton and Tanaka are off the books next year too, so the move makes sense in solidifying the rotation for the future.
All in all, I’m becoming quite optimistic about our chances.
That’s true, but guys like Sherman, Passan, and Martino also saying positive things.
I think if it were less certain, the Yankees would be counterbalancing any pro-Cole stories if not to maintain leverage then to keep the fan base expectations in line.
I think if it were less certain, the Yankees would be counterbalancing any pro-Cole stories if not to maintain leverage then to keep the fan base expectations in line.
Exactly, the only thing was they feared he would prefer the west coast and he put that to rest. This is very different from Machado/Harper. Cole checks off all the boxes, especially analytics
This is true....I'd only bet on Happ being gone for certain. I'd try to keep Paxton and see what Tanaka wants to do.
Plus Ellsbury’s $26 million is off the books after one more year.
Yanks have to plan for a monster Judge deal soon too, and likely Sanchez, but you’re right about other money coming off soon too
Cole would put them over the luxury tax for 2020, but not beyond the realm they could be back under by 2021. Especially if a new CBA pushes it up even higher
Worry about 3 years from now 3 years from now. Sign Cole and we might have won 2-3 championships by then.
Worry about 3 years from now 3 years from now. Sign Cole and we might have won 2-3 championships by then.
With the state of the MLB right now and labour wars on the horizon, i'm all in on this.
Sign Cole, Strasburg, Treinen, Betances and make Frazier our starting CFer.
Exactly how I feel. Until it actually happens,I'm pessimistic. I have no faith that Hal will go over the 3rd cap level!
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They won't be cheap over that time period but no need to worry about handing them huge contracts until 3 years from now. Plus who knows how both of them will perform (Sanchez) or stay healthy (both).
Worry about 3 years from now 3 years from now. Sign Cole and we might have won 2-3 championships by then.
With the state of the MLB right now and labour wars on the horizon, i'm all in on this.
Sign Cole, Strasburg, Treinen, Betances and make Frazier our starting CFer.
If they sign Cole at $250+ Million,they're not signing Strasburg. Frazier in CF? Did you watch him play the corner OF positions this year? His best position is DH!
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They won't be cheap over that time period but no need to worry about handing them huge contracts until 3 years from now. Plus who knows how both of them will perform (Sanchez) or stay healthy (both).
Worry about 3 years from now 3 years from now. Sign Cole and we might have won 2-3 championships by then.
With the state of the MLB right now and labour wars on the horizon, i'm all in on this.
Sign Cole, Strasburg, Treinen, Betances and make Frazier our starting CFer.
Frazier our starting CF? I don't think he could start in left or right field for a little league team.
Stanton is a better OF than Frazier, he is just very stiff looking. You don't see him butchering fly balls. I think we are so used to seeing Gardy out there we take it for granted that that is the way LF should be played.
FWIW, Judge can very well play CF. He is an excellent OF. The Yankees just don't want him running around crazy out there.
Frazier needs, and I am hoping he has been during the off season, to work his ass off in ST. He has the tools - speed and an arm. There is absolutely no reason for him to be less than an average OF. None. With his speed he should be a plus defender.
I think we need both Clint and Andujar in the lineup everyday. dont want to say regardless of deffense but just make it work.
If Frazier cant play LF better then Stanton he can DH.
If Andjuar cant play 3rd let him try 1st.
Im all in on trading Urshella. I think he is at peak value right now and dont like that he cant play the middle infield if he doesnt hit he doent have the flexability to be the defensive utility guy.
Im all in on trading Urshella. I think he is at peak value right now and dont like that he cant play the middle infield if he doesnt hit he doent have the flexability to be the defensive utility guy.
After watching Urshela play 3rd base, there is little chance they trade him now. They do have options with Estrada and DJLM to play there because of defense. I don't think Andujar is an option at 3rd. Love what his bat was two years ago, so he needs to fit somewhere. He has always been a demon at the plate.
Guys they need to find a spot for:
Voit
Ford
Andujar
Frazier
Wade
This situation had gone completely dark - it's been kinda weird.
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is the word on German?
This situation had gone completely dark - it's been kinda weird.
Very weird. It should be quite simple. Investigation, interviews with both and a decision. Is MLBPA involved and fighting it behind the scene?
Not fair to German or the Yanks.
Happ for sure is gone, possibly before next year. But Tanaka and Paxton will probably have to be resigned or replaced at equal or higher salaries, so that could be a wash.
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Tanaka, Paxton and Happ may all be gone after next season. It’s a lot easier to fill in the back end of the rotation if we plant Cole and Sevy at the top.
Happ for sure is gone, possibly before next year. But Tanaka and Paxton will probably have to be resigned or replaced at equal or higher salaries, so that could be a wash.
Montgomery, Lasagna, Garcia, King and Nelson are all knocking on the door this year at AAA and coming up right behind them are Schmidt, Gil, Medina, and other super talented arms.
If NYY lands Cole and can sit Cole and Sevy 1-2 atop the rotation 2020 and beyond, the other spots will be filled by the youngsters - perhaps Tanaka goes the way of Kuroda and renews at 1 year intervals....
If he's stil healthy and productive at the end of next year Tanaka will be 31. With MLB giving big $ and long-term contracts to pitchers of far less talent, why would Tanaka only want a one year deal?
As I recall Kuruda missed Japan and didn't want to get stuck in a multi-year deal with a MLB team. I highly doubt it's some kind of cultural thing where all Japaneese pitchers only want one year contracts after they're 30.
Paxton is another story. I fully expect them to go all to sign him to a long term deal. He's the type of K heavy pitcher they like.
A rotation fronted by Cole, Sevy and Paxton is pretty damn impressive. You can't have 5 $20M+ starters.....you need to have some guys in the rotation who are young(wish) and cheap. I could see the Yanks filling out the last two spots with German/Deivi Garcia/Schmidt/Loaisiga etc.
Paxton is another story. I fully expect them to go all to sign him to a long term deal. He's the type of K heavy pitcher they like.
A rotation fronted by Cole, Sevy and Paxton is pretty damn impressive. You can't have 5 $20M+ starters.....you need to have some guys in the rotation who are young(wish) and cheap. I could see the Yanks filling out the last two spots with German/Deivi Garcia/Schmidt/Loaisiga etc.
We'll see on Cole, as somebody said, I'll believe it when I see it.
I think the Yanks want to see Paxton stay healthy for the year, before they decide to keep him on longer.
They might try to keep him, but they generally wait until the player hits free agency.
The problem this offseason will be trying to move somebody like Happ.
That vested option makes it a bit more difficult.
Only 27 starts, or 165 innings is not that difficult.
I don't see why a team would trade for him for example,
and then put him under wraps, no logic in that.
They can move Frazier as far as I am concerned, his act
is beginning to get a bit stale. His defensive adventures don't make it easier to move him either.
I don't know why a NL team would trade for him.
I think the chances of the Yankees giving DK a 3-year deal, with or without Cole, are near zero.
I think a much more likely name to keep an eye on is Robbie Ray. I have a feeling he's in pinstripes if they don't land Cole. Possibly even if they do land Cole.
Barf on Kuechel. I'd hope they don't do that.
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the Dodgers get Cole and NYY gets Kuechel on a 3-year deal.
Barf on Kuechel. I'd hope they don't do that.
Okay will that settles it.....
Ground ball pitcher, excellent location inside and out, eats innings, low contact velocity and is a winner in the post season. Yes barf on Kuechel.
0.0% chance of this happening. Yanks will have no interest in Keuchel on a 3 year deal. If they don't get Cole I'd look for them to try and sign Strasburg, and if that fails then look to upgrade the rotation via trade.
On a one year deal though. Big difference.
2) Years
3) Matt Blake
Cole knows who the Yankees are an what they are all about. But as a Boras client, he's going to chase the money/years. Assuming the Yankees are willing to spend (we know they have the resources), I think the differentiator is Matt Blake to keep him from the Dodgers/Angels. When the Yankees hired him and pushed Larry out the door, to me this screamed the Yankees were not only looking to revamp their entire system, but to use him as a recruiting tool for a guy like Cole who saw his career take off in Houston thanks to analytics and spin rates, etc (I don't think the banging trash cans helped their pitchers).
They were willing to offer him a pro-rated QO deal for less than one year when their rotation was in tatters last year and there were no other options on the market then. They are up against the luxury tax now in ways they weren't last year, and the rotation is in better shape and they have tons of other options. They have not been linked to Keuchel in any way this offseason. There is no chance that they'll blow the very limited salary cap flexibility they have to sign Keuchel to a 3 year deal - I'm sorry if my certainty here upsets you.
2) Years
3) Matt Blake
Cole knows who the Yankees are an what they are all about. But as a Boras client, he's going to chase the money/years. Assuming the Yankees are willing to spend (we know they have the resources), I think the differentiator is Matt Blake to keep him from the Dodgers/Angels. When the Yankees hired him and pushed Larry out the door, to me this screamed the Yankees were not only looking to revamp their entire system, but to use him as a recruiting tool for a guy like Cole who saw his career take off in Houston thanks to analytics and spin rates, etc (I don't think the banging trash cans helped their pitchers).
Great point on the new pitching coach, I hadn't considered that angle
I understand the Dodgers are OUT on Cole. Too much $$$$.
Bundy is not going to stop them from pursuing Cole.
Link - ( New Window )
Trying to build a machine.
Fun to be a Yankees fan
Disagree. I think Stanton splits time between LF and DH with Gardy being the 4th OF and Frazier being shit of of luck. Either he gets traded or has to rely in an injury to crack that outfield.
I think there's a better chance of them signing Tauchman and him being above Frazier for an outfield spot than Frazier outright earning playing time out there.
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I think there's a better chance of them signing Tauchman and him being above Frazier for an outfield spot than Frazier outright earning playing time out there.
Tauchman is already on the 40 man roster...
About to get interesting.
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In comment 14703615 mdthedream said:
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I think there's a better chance of them signing Tauchman and him being above Frazier for an outfield spot than Frazier outright earning playing time out there.
Tauchman is already on the 40 man roster...
Thanks Section.
Clearly I missed that but I'm glad he is and definitely think this hurts Fraziers's chances for getting significant playing time.
One more thing I’d like to see them work on is the prep scouting department. The Latin program is very good, the 2014 debacle aside, but their prep picks have been err less than exemplary...
Thanks Section.
Clearly I missed that but I'm glad he is and definitely think this hurts Fraziers' chances for getting significant playing time.
I think Frazier may be traded, but I also think Cashman likes him a lot. He is not a CF candidate in the least, but I don't know what happened last year that his defense went so far south. He was not that bad in LF(not great but certainly MLB quality). I also don't get this narrative between RF and LF being so different. They are not. Either you can play OF or you cannot. CF is different only in the range needed.
Frazier was originally a third baseman(IIRC). But a player of that athletic ability should be able to play a more than competent OF.
One more thing I’d like to see them work on is the prep scouting department. The Latin program is very good, the 2014 debacle aside, but their prep picks have been err less than exemplary...
I don't know if it's scouting or what, but they've largely stayed away from preps. They'll draft a couple they consider to be elite and a few more they don't intend to sign, but it's not uncommon for them to come out of a draft with just 3 or 4 preps. We will see what happens with Volpe and Seigler, but yeah the returns have not necessarily been great.
Why I disagree - why would Cash devalue him if he want to get rid of him? Sonny Gray was one thing, Frazier is different. Frazier being a highly sought after prospect with MLB proven bat should get a good return even with his defensive problems which I think can be easily solved.
Guess we just read Cashman differently. There is no doubt the offense is there. He has speed and a good arm. But it appears he has a 2 cent brain.
Frazier has been buried because who was he going to play ahead of? Stanton? Hicks? Judge? Gardner? At least with Gardner, Frazier may be better offensively. Can't touch Gardy in the outfield. Tauchman was brought in out of desperation and excelled. Frazier should have been ahead of Tauchman but Tauchman can play CF.
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I feel bad for how he's wasting away, he can easily be a 270./30 HR guy right now.
I think we need both Clint and Andujar in the lineup everyday. dont want to say regardless of deffense but just make it work.
If Frazier cant play LF better then Stanton he can DH.
If Andjuar cant play 3rd let him try 1st.
Im all in on trading Urshella. I think he is at peak value right now and dont like that he cant play the middle infield if he doesnt hit he doent have the flexability to be the defensive utility guy.
Jon is right. They were not denied. Dodgers, Angels will soon learn.
@JonHeyman
Hear Yankees “total focus” right now is on Gerrit Cole. PHI, TEX, LAD, LAA are other teams known to be in but Yankees don’t want to be denied.
Jon is right. They were not denied. Dodgers, Angels will soon learn.
@JonHeyman
Hear Yankees “total focus” right now is on Gerrit Cole. PHI, TEX, LAD, LAA are other teams known to be in but Yankees don’t want to be denied.
That Gammons tweet kinda makes it sound like it’s a done deal, no?
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
Several agents say Yankees appear to have back burnered other business while trying to finishGerrit Cole negotiations. This has a CC in ‘09, they won’t be denied vibe
Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
4m
The Gerrit Cole sweepstakes is moving to the point where teams will be making initial offers in the coming days, sources tell ESPN. The three favorites remain the New York Yankees, Los Angeles Angels and Los Angeles Dodgers.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
Several agents say Yankees appear to have back burnered other business while trying to finishGerrit Cole negotiations. This has a CC in ‘09, they won’t be denied vibe
Lets hope this is true. Pettite who played for both Astros and Yanks in on negotiations and I think CC who was considering left coast before signing with us spoke with Cole too.
Full court press. Hal may finally open up the purse strings for the big kahuna SP.
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I’m going to say 8/288 or 7/266 I think the Yanks will definitely try to dial up the average to shorten the years but can’t see them getting below 7. I think he will want 10 and I can’t see it shorter than 7. Would guess a 3 year player opt out too
My guess is 7 years at $245M with a team option for year 8 that includes a $5M buyout, so actually 7 years $250M or 8 years $280M. Probably too optimistic on my part, but I would hesitate to go higher or longer.
Just a guess, but I doubt the numbers you offered get it done.
The more realistic numbers at 7 years STARTING at $252M, likely approaching $266M, or 8 years STARTING at $288 and likely approaching $304M.
I also suspect that there will be at least one buyout point- likely in 2022 or 2023- after the new labor deal is done, so he can see if he can beat those numbers based on the new CBA terms.
@pgammo
·
57s
Gerrit Cole will go into New York for his age 29 season, and in 2018 averaged 102 pitches in 33 starts, didn't get to 100 in a third of them, got the 'Stros to the 7th 29 times, did not go past 113 Ps until his high of 118 in Game 1 vs. Tampa.
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In comment 14706338 NoGainDayne said:
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I’m going to say 8/288 or 7/266 I think the Yanks will definitely try to dial up the average to shorten the years but can’t see them getting below 7. I think he will want 10 and I can’t see it shorter than 7. Would guess a 3 year player opt out too
My guess is 7 years at $245M with a team option for year 8 that includes a $5M buyout, so actually 7 years $250M or 8 years $280M. Probably too optimistic on my part, but I would hesitate to go higher or longer.
Just a guess, but I doubt the numbers you offered get it done.
The more realistic numbers at 7 years STARTING at $252M, likely approaching $266M, or 8 years STARTING at $288 and likely approaching $304M.
I also suspect that there will be at least one buyout point- likely in 2022 or 2023- after the new labor deal is done, so he can see if he can beat those numbers based on the new CBA terms.
Yeah I think my numbers are too reasonable and the final numbers will be unreasonable. On the other hand, teams have been more cost conscious than expected in the free agent market the past two years. They may be better off signing him to a 10-year deal closer to $30M/year than a 7 or 8 year deal that could top $35M/year.
This Cole situation really does seem like CC all over again. The Yankees have gotten word out to the other GMs to essentially don't bother trying. And from the way the 2nd tier has been scooped up quickly (Wheeler, etc) it would seem that teams know the Angels and Dodgers will turn their eyes there next once the Yankees polish off Cole and they wanted to get them off the board now.
This Cole situation really does seem like CC all over again. The Yankees have gotten word out to the other GMs to essentially don't bother trying. And from the way the 2nd tier has been scooped up quickly (Wheeler, etc) it would seem that teams know the Angels and Dodgers will turn their eyes there next once the Yankees polish off Cole and they wanted to get them off the board now.
People comparing this to the Corbin 'chase' last year make me laugh. This definitely has rhat CC Sabathia negotiations vibe. It certainly sounds like we are all in and have firmly grabbed his attention. Doesnt guarantee anything but at this point I would be a bit surprised if we don't get him.
2. Bring in another high contact lower strikeout guy to better balance out the line up. DJ and Gleyber and to a lesser extent Judge ....we need another to complement the high power but high K guys in the line up especially for postseason baseball when mistake pitches are fewer and further between.
Honestly the rest they do after that is gravy. The team would be pretty stacked and playoff equipped with those 2 additions (Cole and high contact/low K hitter) alone.
Believe CC was signed on Dec 10th....
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Sooner rather than later. I don't think the CC negotiations dragged out to long.
Believe CC was signed on Dec 10th....
A few reports said he negotiations should really pick up this week. Was CC a Boras client too?
Bob Klapisch
@BobKlap
·
11m
I'm told #Yankees have a seven-year, $245 million offer on the table for Gerrit Cole. Would be a record-setting contract for a pitcher, surpassing Greinke’s $34.4 million AAV. Question is whether #Dodgers or #Angels will go to 8-9 or even 10 years.
Bob Klapisch
@BobKlap
·
11m
I'm told #Yankees have a seven-year, $245 million offer on the table for Gerrit Cole. Would be a record-setting contract for a pitcher, surpassing Greinke’s $34.4 million AAV. Question is whether #Dodgers or #Angels will go to 8-9 or even 10 years.
Moreno vs Steinbrenner...here we go. Cole and Boras sit back and watch with a bottle of Champagne.
Bob Klapisch
@BobKlap
·
11m
I'm told #Yankees have a seven-year, $245 million offer on the table for Gerrit Cole. Would be a record-setting contract for a pitcher, surpassing Greinke’s $34.4 million AAV. Question is whether #Dodgers or #Angels will go to 8-9 or even 10 years.
I want Cole as much as anyone, but if one of those teams are willing to go to 9 or 10 years, they can have him. That contract would take him until he’s almost 40. Ludicrous
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Bob Klapisch
@BobKlap
·
11m
I'm told #Yankees have a seven-year, $245 million offer on the table for Gerrit Cole. Would be a record-setting contract for a pitcher, surpassing Greinke’s $34.4 million AAV. Question is whether #Dodgers or #Angels will go to 8-9 or even 10 years.
I want Cole as much as anyone, but if one of those teams are willing to go to 9 or 10 years, they can have him. That contract would take him until he’s almost 40. Ludicrous
I think the Yanks will go 8 years. Cole looks to be built like Verlander and Scherzer. I believe he can pitch to age 37.
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In comment 14707339 Ryan in Albany said:
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Bob Klapisch
@BobKlap
·
11m
I'm told #Yankees have a seven-year, $245 million offer on the table for Gerrit Cole. Would be a record-setting contract for a pitcher, surpassing Greinke’s $34.4 million AAV. Question is whether #Dodgers or #Angels will go to 8-9 or even 10 years.
I want Cole as much as anyone, but if one of those teams are willing to go to 9 or 10 years, they can have him. That contract would take him until he’s almost 40. Ludicrous
I think the Yanks will go 8 years. Cole looks to be built like Verlander and Scherzer. I believe he can pitch to age 37.
Yes I think we would go 8.
I haven’t seen a thread on this, but Marvin Miller, the MLBPA leader from the 1970s, and Ted Simmons (terrific cardinals catcher) were voted into the hall of fame by the veterans committee. If Simmons got in (and he is deserving), then Munson surely has to get in because he was the best catcher in the 1970s not named Bench and the only reason he didn’t put up better numbers was due to tragedy
I haven’t seen a thread on this, but Marvin Miller, the MLBPA leader from the 1970s, and Ted Simmons (terrific cardinals catcher) were voted into the hall of fame by the veterans committee. If Simmons got in (and he is deserving), then Munson surely has to get in because he was the best catcher in the 1970s not named Bench and the only reason he didn’t put up better numbers was due to tragedy
Good to see Marvin Miller finally get in, as an FYI,
not called the 'veteran's committee' anymore, that changed a few years back, now a 'Modern Day Committee'.
It is 16 ex-players, executives, etc.
You have to get 12 out of 16 votes from them or 75% (similar to regular vote on ballot)....
was hoping Munson and Donnie Baseball would get in,
but didn't think it would happen.
Munson just didn't play long enough, Simmons played 21 years for example. If Thurm would have played maybe
15 years, but unfortunately that wasn't meant to be.
Another cool stat- Thurman played in 16 WS games and hit safely in all but 1. Guy won 3 gold gloves, 7 AS appearances in 10 seasons(when making the AS game was a feat and another HOF C in the AL at the time) incredibly clutch hitter. Only got 3 votes yesterday. I just don't understand how little support he's gotten over the years.
That really was a golden era for C's. You had HOFer's Fisk/Carter/Bench and now Simmons plus Munson. Making either leagues AS team there was a herculean feat.
Especially bc Puckett turned out to be a scumbag after his retirement. But the writers all loved him in his playing days
Exactly. The longevity argument makes no sense. Make the requirement 15 years instead of 10 if you don't feel 10 is enough.
Project Cole now 8yrs/$300...oh Boy!