Marisnek was buried on the Astros outfield. Has power and speed. Yes, the average isn't great, but the rest is pretty good.
85 wRC+ the past 2 seasons, 79 career. Awful numbers average aside and that's with the Astros cheating.
Are we sure the cheating is really an impact? I mean JD David would've had the benefit of cheating if it was really going on throughout the organization and he did better when he got here.
Marisnek was buried on the Astros outfield. Has power and speed. Yes, the average isn't great, but the rest is pretty good.
85 wRC+ the past 2 seasons, 79 career. Awful numbers average aside and that's with the Astros cheating.
Are we sure the cheating is really an impact? I mean JD David would've had the benefit of cheating if it was really going on throughout the organization and he did better when he got here.
JD Davis had 165 total AB's over 2 seasons in Houston and mashed in the minors. He likely would have mashed in Houston given enough time.
these typical Coupon moves aren't the problem I have Â
Does anybody think this guy will be the starting CF? Does anybody think he’ll platoon with Nimmo? I don’t know much about him but couldn’t the team sign a free agent CF who plays defense but doesn’t hit without trading prospects? Even if they are not top line, they could have been packaged in a deal for a starter. I’m assuming they’ve given up on Lagares if only for injury reasons
New York Mets
@Mets
We’ve signed OF Jarrett Parker and INF Max Moroff (
@max_moroff
) to minor league deals with invites to major league #SpringTraining. They join Chasen Shreve who signed a minor league contract with an invite to major league Spring Training in November. #Mets
Marisnek was buried on the Astros outfield. Has power and speed. Yes, the average isn't great, but the rest is pretty good.
85 wRC+ the past 2 seasons, 79 career. Awful numbers average aside and that's with the Astros cheating.
double digit power and steals as a part time player batting 8th or 9th in Houston, a + defender and a cheap contract that only lasts another year. Sure, he's not Dimaggio but there is nothing wrong with this deal.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
·
47m
MLB scout on Jake Marisnick: “You want to go with defense in center field and Lagares was going backwards a lot. This guy is not a savior by any means. He will have a good day here and there. But at least he’s a legitimate guy that can run balls down in the gaps and throw.”
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
·
47m
MLB scout on Jake Marisnick: “You want to go with defense in center field and Lagares was going backwards a lot. This guy is not a savior by any means. He will have a good day here and there. But at least he’s a legitimate guy that can run balls down in the gaps and throw.”
I'm not enthused by this move but it makes sense - and Beltran is likely familiar with him.
More broadly I'm disappointed because I'd have really pushed to add a true GG caliber defender up the middle at either CF or C though, and obviously options are dwindling after Grandal signed. Cain seems like the only other guy who fits that criteria out there and who knows if he's available. Plus his age is risky.
RE: This signing may be the start of bigger things to come Â
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
·
47m
MLB scout on Jake Marisnick: “You want to go with defense in center field and Lagares was going backwards a lot. This guy is not a savior by any means. He will have a good day here and there. But at least he’s a legitimate guy that can run balls down in the gaps and throw.”
I'm not enthused by this move but it makes sense - and Beltran is likely familiar with him.
More broadly I'm disappointed because I'd have really pushed to add a true GG caliber defender up the middle at either CF or C though, and obviously options are dwindling after Grandal signed. Cain seems like the only other guy who fits that criteria out there and who knows if he's available. Plus his age is risky.
There are rumors that Atlanta is shopping Inciarte. They have both of their top CF prospects in AAA so they are willing to move Inciarte who is coming off his worst season. Injuries are likely the cause for his struggles but the Braves would be selling low.
Porcello on a one year deal as 4th or 5th starter is an upgrade Â
Of course price matters and any further commitment to him would be a mistake. That said his IP/ERA/WHIP have fallen significantly over the last three consecutive seasons. he didn't approach 200 IP last season and it's fallen every year. So that's a concern given his greatest asset is eating innings. It will help his numbers coming to the NL without the DL which we can factor in and he's been very durable which is a plus.
I was hoping we could add another lefty to the rotation as matz is so mind bogglingly inconsistent but they are hard to come by.
RE: Porcello on a one year deal as 4th or 5th starter is an upgrade Â
Of course price matters and any further commitment to him would be a mistake. That said his IP/ERA/WHIP have fallen significantly over the last three consecutive seasons. he didn't approach 200 IP last season and it's fallen every year. So that's a concern given his greatest asset is eating innings. It will help his numbers coming to the NL without the DL which we can factor in and he's been very durable which is a plus.
I was hoping we could add another lefty to the rotation as matz is so mind bogglingly inconsistent but they are hard to come by.
Torrag,
He's really not. Porcello posted a 4.76 FIP last season and has a 4.45 FIP over his last 3. That's 79th in the league behind Jesse Chavez. There is significant evidence pointing to him headed in the wrong direction.
Jay - I have always liked Enciarte so I'd be all over that Â
Dan that's still better than Vargas whose also thrown under 150 innings each of the last three years. He won't have the DH to contend with which generally translates to slightly improved stats as well. Not a huge upgrade but still one nonetheless.
Crosses one need off the list and he’s got more pop and speed than Lagares did. The players going the other way can barely even be considered prospects at all. Both insanely old for the levels they were playing at.
Hopefully this puts to rest the absurd Marte rumors and assures Nimmo to be in CF where he belongs.
Would have loved Shogo for this spot, but this is likely just as good. The 5th OF will almost never play on this team but we still need late inning D.
Crosses one need off the list and he’s got more pop and speed than Lagares did. The players going the other way can barely even be considered prospects at all. Both insanely old for the levels they were playing at.
Hopefully this puts to rest the absurd Marte rumors and assures Nimmo to be in CF where he belongs.
Would have loved Shogo for this spot, but this is likely just as good. The 5th OF will almost never play on this team but we still need late inning D.
Now go get Castro, Keuchel, Betances, and Brach!
Blake Taylor is "insanely old"? He was 23 this past season and finished the year in AAA. He was 1.3 years YOUNGER than the league in the EL this season and .1 years older than the FSL.
in the AFL this fall 9 innings 5 hits 2 runs 11 k's (oh yeah he was .2 years younger than the average AFL player too). Hey, if you like the move more power to you but "insanely old" is flat out false, not even borderline true.
Jacob Resnick
@Jacob_Resnick
I’m not losing sleep over Blake Taylor but he was touching 97 once he moved to the bullpen and has a high-spin breaking ball. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a role in Houston’s ‘pen before the end of the year.
1 of these lesser known guys is due to come back and bite us Â
BVW has been pretty cavalier about dumping players from the old regime.
Not that SWR/Kay were lesser knowns but I truly believe the Stroman trade is going to ultimately end up looking as bad as the Kelenic trade unless he goes on to resign and way outperform Wheeler over the next few years (which at this point would seem unlikely). Just so pointless.
RE: Jay - I have always liked Enciarte so I'd be all over that Â
if you guys don't get Donaldson back, maybe a Lowrie for Inciarte swap makes sense? I believe $ is similar.
That sounds good to me. I would do it even if Donaldson was brought back. Lowrie would be great insurance if Riley isn’t ready for the full time 3B job. There have been some rumblings that they might consider moving Dansby Swanson which would allow Albies to move back to SS but that would open a hole at 2B with no prospect ready for at least a year. Lowrie could split time with Camargo in that scenario.
Yep, money driven decisions when we're in the NY market is an insane way to run a franchise. But until Cohen actually starts running things that's where we are.
btw here's some good info on Marsinek's D from Mark Simon Â
Marisnick is the team’s best ‘go back and get it’ outfielder, hence a valuable center fielder. He’s totaled at least 10 Runs Saved in a season as an outfielder four times. Since 2014, he ranks seventh among outfielders in Runs Saved despite ranking 60th in innings. He finished 2019 with five Runs Saved, with his strength being catching the shallow fly ball rather than the deep fly, as it had been in years past. The Astros have been using him as a defensive closer this postseason, bringing him in to protect late-game leads.
Jake Marisnick on Shallow Fly Balls
Opportunities* 78
Plays Made 59
Expected Plays Made 50
Plays Above Expected 9**
* Balls with Catch Probability >0%
** T-2nd among CF
And a little bonus nugget from this article on Maldonado - who the cheating genius' have acquired twice at the deadline, ended up getting paid less than we paid TDA for a couple months last year, and is a FA again right now.
Quote:
Pitch and Catch
Behind the plate, the Astros split between Martin Maldonado and Robinson Chirinos. Maldonado is Cole’s personal catcher and could start if the Astros use a bullpen game again. Maldonado has a reputation of being one of the best defensive catchers in the game. He ranked among the best pitch blockers this season and is typically one of the leaders in pitch framing and basestealing deterrence, though he was just a smidge above average in both this season.
Cole’s fine with that. He has a 1.30 ERA and a nearly 8-to-1 strikeout-to-walk ratio in the 90 1/3 innings Maldonado has caught him.
The Astros outfield has a 65 percent out rate on fly balls and line drives. They have a combined 21 runs saved, which ranks tied for third overall. Jake Marisnick has been consistently good, often in part-time samples, every year. Marisnick is good at catching the deep fly ball and coming in to grab the shallow one. He ranks first among center fielders with six diving catches. SIS tracks “Good Fielding Plays” (think: Web Gems) and Marisnick’s 10 are two shy of the most by a center fielder (Byron Buxton), but Marisnick is averaging the most on a per-inning basis.
if you guys don't get Donaldson back, maybe a Lowrie for Inciarte swap makes sense? I believe $ is similar.
That sounds good to me. I would do it even if Donaldson was brought back. Lowrie would be great insurance if Riley isn’t ready for the full time 3B job. There have been some rumblings that they might consider moving Dansby Swanson which would allow Albies to move back to SS but that would open a hole at 2B with no prospect ready for at least a year. Lowrie could split time with Camargo in that scenario.
Too bad we didn't consummate it before BVW decided to trade for Marsinek. I'd possibly still take Inciarte though. Give him a shot in CF every day with Nimmo/JDD in LF and Conforto in RF (Mcneil at 3B). Marsinek can still mix in against lefties.
RE: 1 of these lesser known guys is due to come back and bite us Â
BVW has been pretty cavalier about dumping players from the old regime.
Not that SWR/Kay were lesser knowns but I truly believe the Stroman trade is going to ultimately end up looking as bad as the Kelenic trade unless he goes on to resign and way outperform Wheeler over the next few years (which at this point would seem unlikely). Just so pointless.
I tend to agree but Kay is a flyball pitcher and Peterson is a ground ball pitcher. I think BVW is really emphasizing ground ball pitchers as a way of countering HR.
Let’s see the Mets desperately need bullpen help Â
Invested in this guy to go to AFL where’d he shined and traded him for a 29 year old 5th outfielder who is a free agent after the year. Taylor May end up sucking but why even risk it and not simply sign one of the multitude of players who fit the exact same profile as this guy? BVW and wilpons can’t be gone fast enough.
That said, nothing that will be done one free agent side will tamper my happiness over the Cohen news. The end is finally in sight if we have to ruin this current window due to financial cheapness yet again so be it.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
·
47m
MLB scout on Jake Marisnick: “You want to go with defense in center field and Lagares was going backwards a lot. This guy is not a savior by any means. He will have a good day here and there. But at least he’s a legitimate guy that can run balls down in the gaps and throw.”
I'm not enthused by this move but it makes sense - and Beltran is likely familiar with him.
More broadly I'm disappointed because I'd have really pushed to add a true GG caliber defender up the middle at either CF or C though, and obviously options are dwindling after Grandal signed. Cain seems like the only other guy who fits that criteria out there and who knows if he's available. Plus his age is risky.
There are rumors that Atlanta is shopping Inciarte. They have both of their top CF prospects in AAA so they are willing to move Inciarte who is coming off his worst season. Injuries are likely the cause for his struggles but the Braves would be selling low.
There is no way the Braves are trading Inciarte to the mets.
Marisnek? Still Cant Beleive that Chapman Elected to Pitch to Altuve Â
You are right on. Brach is tough on righties and the lefties eat him up.
He's also had some impressive seasons with the Orioles only a couple of seasons ago. But even so, as a 6th or 7th option in the pen I think its a solid move. He grew up a Mets fan too which probably explains the huge discount.
I like signing Brach, but I think they should pass on Porcello. They Â
and the madoff mess was behind us? It "was a choice" not to give out mega deals? And recouping salary savings at the deadline wasn't more important than getting good prospects?
I know most of us didn't buy it but in case there were any lingering doubts about how dysfunctional the Wilponzis were/are:
Quote:
People familiar with the team’s finances said the Mets have lost more than $60 million during each of the past two seasons, as the team struggled to attract fans, and they are at the limit of debt allowed by Major League Baseball rules.
In 2012, with the economy rebounding, the Mets sold 12 minority shares in the team, including one to Cohen, raising $240 million. That enabled them to pay back loans that were overdue.
Their two-thirds ownership of Sportsnet New York, the regional sports network, has helped cover financial shortfalls related to the team, which is now carrying hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, exacerbating tension between Jeff Wilpon and his relatives. In recent months, selling the franchise became the most equitable way to divide up the asset among the Wilpon family members.
and the madoff mess was behind us? It "was a choice" not to give out mega deals? And recouping salary savings at the deadline wasn't more important than getting good prospects?
I know most of us didn't buy it but in case there were any lingering doubts about how dysfunctional the Wilponzis were/are:
Quote:
People familiar with the team’s finances said the Mets have lost more than $60 million during each of the past two seasons, as the team struggled to attract fans, and they are at the limit of debt allowed by Major League Baseball rules.
In 2012, with the economy rebounding, the Mets sold 12 minority shares in the team, including one to Cohen, raising $240 million. That enabled them to pay back loans that were overdue.
Their two-thirds ownership of Sportsnet New York, the regional sports network, has helped cover financial shortfalls related to the team, which is now carrying hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, exacerbating tension between Jeff Wilpon and his relatives. In recent months, selling the franchise became the most equitable way to divide up the asset among the Wilpon family members.
The Wilpon Family Chronicles - ( New Window )
ZGiants? Pretty sure your refrain was always debt was no longer an issue every season? Please chime in.
think so and go through his usual routine of name calling. Beyond that I'd guess it's more likely to just be a denial and something along the lines of "nobody ever said the wilpons were good owners".
I think the epic rants tend to happen more in real time but who knows. obviously the deal isn't final yet but hopefully there can be less hostility around everything to do with this entire franchise going forward now that the wilponzi taint appears to finally be lifting.
Unexciting and there are others I'd probably prefer (Bumgarner, Keuchel) but a fine move. I'd hope Porcello is cheap enough they can also grab a Gio Gonzalez type on a 1 year deal too. Be nice to have some real depth for once.
RE: RE: Remember when we were told there were no payroll limitations Â
and the madoff mess was behind us? It "was a choice" not to give out mega deals? And recouping salary savings at the deadline wasn't more important than getting good prospects?
I know most of us didn't buy it but in case there were any lingering doubts about how dysfunctional the Wilponzis were/are:
Quote:
People familiar with the team’s finances said the Mets have lost more than $60 million during each of the past two seasons, as the team struggled to attract fans, and they are at the limit of debt allowed by Major League Baseball rules.
In 2012, with the economy rebounding, the Mets sold 12 minority shares in the team, including one to Cohen, raising $240 million. That enabled them to pay back loans that were overdue.
Their two-thirds ownership of Sportsnet New York, the regional sports network, has helped cover financial shortfalls related to the team, which is now carrying hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, exacerbating tension between Jeff Wilpon and his relatives. In recent months, selling the franchise became the most equitable way to divide up the asset among the Wilpon family members.
The Wilpon Family Chronicles - ( New Window )
ZGiants? Pretty sure your refrain was always debt was no longer an issue every season? Please chime in.
Complete and utter bullshit. Never said debt was no longer an issue once. Please show me one post where I ever said that. I said things were improving year by year... and they were as evidenced by our increased payroll every season for years now. Also said Sandy liked to work with a buffer (10-15 AAV) and a few items along those lines. This forum is searchable... If you can find one comment where I said the Mets could spend literally whatever they wanted and that money was limitless once again, Ill mail you a $100.
debt has continued to be a huge issue. The fact that the Mets lost $60 million the last two years is pretty astounding, I thought they had exciting teams, especially in '19
your wrong. Just fess up and mvoe forward. No biggie.
Actually Im not. Never said payroll was limitless. What a ridiculous straw man. The Mets are, however, a luxury tax team... Something MANY here scoffed at and said we would never be at. I vividly remember being told the Mets wouldnt sign Cespedes because they didn't have the money, etc and then there were crickets here every time they did add payroll over the last few years...
So the Wilpons lost 30 million each of the last two seasons? What the hell does that have to do with anything I ever mentioned?
but I'd really like to grab him. We have the depth to rest him as much as necessary and he has the winning demeanor this team just needs to keep adding wherever we can. He's also only 30 years old so as much as it feels like people have put the nail in the coffin on him, who knows? He was worth 3 fwar last year and put up 200 ip.
MLBTR predicted 4/$72m to the Twins. They'd actually pegged Wheeler to the Phils on a 5 year deal too (undershot the $ a little).
Just nervous of all those miles on his arm... Feel like we'd be paying for the back 5 holes of his career or so.
But if we could get him on a reasonable 3-4 year deal... definitely.
Personally, Keuchel would be my target and I'd focus on the pen still. Go after Betances and McHugh. If Keuchel is too much, Id even consider Gio if it meant improving the pen with a couple of really good pieces.
Sign Jason Castro as the cherry on the top and let's go to war.
But there's many ways to skin a cat. We'll see what they do.
To give you an idea of how bizarre the 2019 season was for Edwin Diaz, here’s the list of pitchers in Major League history with a season of at least 5.00 ERA, 15.0 K/9, and 50 innings pitched:
Jacob Resnick
@Jacob_Resnick
·
1m
Appears the #Mets signed Mexican RHP Francisco Ríos in November. He's 24 and played 7 years in the Blue Jays' system, reaching Triple-A, though he spent most of last year in the Mexican League.
This article says his fastball reaches 96-97 mph: https://albat.com/lasmayores/Met
How much do you guys feel the catcher has in the success of Â
pitchers with game calling? We all know that the BP was bad last year and I’d be interested in seeing the splits between the catchers, but I still watched a lot of games last season and constantly scratched my head at the pitch selection. Seems like a preparation issue. I’ve heard a lot of successful catchers talk about their insane preparation but I have no clue if Ramos prepares the same way as well. I do know there were some pretty significant splits when it came to Noah and maybe Degrom.
Not saying it’s the case with Ramos, but it would frustrate the hell out of me if we are less effective because Ramos doesn’t prepare accordingly.
I'm not versed enough to say for sure, but experts do believe there is a tangible effect for pitch sequencing and pitch framing (positive and negative).
I'm not sure though who calls pitches for all teams - some teams it gets called from the dugout, not the catcher.
Marc Carig
@MarcCarig
·
2m
Chris Flexen, who was DFA’d by the Mets, is heading to Korea. Per a source, the 25-year old righty will be pitching for the Doosan Bears.
'constantly scratched my head at the pitch selection' Â
overall team defense is like the turnover battle or being more penalized in football, because at the end of the day bad defense gives your opponent more opportunities or extends opportunities to make them more dangerous (like penalties extend drives). We all know the numbers on how much likelier you are to lose a football game if you lose the TO battle.
And I'm not talking about crazy errors or game changing plays, just a ball Nimmo can't get to that Lagares does. Or a turn of a DP Cano is a little slow on. By contrast a great defensive team is shortening drives and creating turnovers. A single at bat can change a baseball game so opportunities can't be overstated, especially opportunities with men on base or late in the game. Some will say "Nimmo's defense is fine" or "when has Cano's D ever lost a game" but that misses the point. Nobody has ever given up a point specifically on a 5 yard illegal contact play. It just gives the other team the first down that extends the game winning drive.
Optimists liked to compare our roster to the Nats and by far the biggest difference between the 2 teams was defense. The Nats were 91 runs better by DRS even though they were just 18th best in baseball. The Braves were 130 runs better. We were 26th in MLB.
Bringing it back to Ramos - catcher is obviously 1 of the premium defensive positions so that's going to have an outsized impact on the overall team defense. If the goal is to field as good of a defensive team as possible because it helps you stack the odds in your favor (like TO battle), having a negative player at a critical position is like having a fumbler at RB. Ramos is a big slow guy with limited athleticism and flexibility. We know he has trouble framing certain low pitches. We know some of the pitchers don't love throwing to him for whatever reason. So he's a big net negative. I'd guess he makes enough bad plays that every series he's giving the other team an extra out we aren't getting and that adds up.
He does have a good bat and a reasonable contract though - so to me it's a top need to secure an athletic defensive catcher with enough talent to be a starter a good chunk of the time and play late in games. Someone who can steal back some of the opportunities Ramos is going to give away. That is not Nido. Maldonado is the best defensive option available but ideally there'd be a younger player with a little more upside we could trade for.
So I keep beating a drum that no one else seems concerned about Â
But the Mets did not really lose 60 million, in fact they likely had a rather large profit but because of the way their contract with sny is set up that profit goes to sny. Why MLB let them set it up that way I have no idea but the amount of revenue the Mets receive from sny is to me crazy low. Thus sny, not beholden to same revenue sharing, gets the profit. So it’s a concern to me that when Cohen takes over he is doing so with a team that is hobbled by a bad sny contract since he is allegedly not getting sny as well.
RE: So I keep beating a drum that no one else seems concerned about Â
But the Mets did not really lose 60 million, in fact they likely had a rather large profit but because of the way their contract with sny is set up that profit goes to sny. Why MLB let them set it up that way I have no idea but the amount of revenue the Mets receive from sny is to me crazy low. Thus sny, not beholden to same revenue sharing, gets the profit. So it’s a concern to me that when Cohen takes over he is doing so with a team that is hobbled by a bad sny contract since he is allegedly not getting sny as well.
Presumably Cohen knows very well what he's getting into re: the team's finances and all reports are he's ready and willing to spend. He is going to be the richest owner in all baseball.
Also the last 2 years cited as "losses" the team hasn't made the playoffs and appeared dead in June - which obviously impacts the bottom line. The year prior (2017) they also didn't make the playoffs but presumably finances may have been better that year because they had made the playoffs the year before (2016) - or else the bad finances of the team may have been quoted as "the past 3 years". So point being it very well may be the case that this team could easily be profitable if the fanbase isn't being beaten down by the Wilponzis.
2017 was probably the last year there was positive ticket sales momentum from the offseason too since they had made the playoffs in '15/'16, and were coming off giving Cespedes a big deal which everyone was excited about at the time.
that pitch framing is used to try to get the home plate umpire to call a ball a strike?
Yes. It's basically the difference between catching a ball in a good receiving position vs. a bad receiving position. It may seem inconsequential but there are tons of emerging stats on the importance of it in the overall mix of catcher defense and Ramos specifically did poorly catching lower balls.
1 question I'd have that I just realized, how does pitch framing get impacted if they go to robot umps? Is pitch framing just a human perception error?
I always understood the psychological aspect of framing - catchers should do it if it helps of course...
But it seems like the league even KNOWING it's a thing doesn't work to remove it. Fine, you see the human error, then maybe create rules & processes to minimize it? Vs measuring how good a catcher is at basically 'faking' the ump out and getting him to just make the wrong call in your favor? Especially when it flies in the face of the most fundamental rules of the game
You'd think an even playing field to determine the better team is the goal, but I don't think I've seen a pro league in my ~40 years that actually legit attempts to do that
Martino says the Mets may shoot lower/cheaper than Porcello. I wonder who is still in charge of the budget...
In the short term, as long as the Wilpons are physically writing the checks it's going to be biz as usual. In fact it may even be worse than usual since they are 1 foot out the door and are probably even more bitter than usual.
The question is when will Cohen be able to start injecting cash flow? Presumably since he's already a partial owner it can happen prior to the full ownership change being approved by MLB since those approvals are generally a formality. But it probably cannot happen until his agreement with the Wilponzis is completed.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
Hi from San Diego. The Mets are looking at back end starters, at least one more reliever and probably not a catcher. Maybe they trade Dom Smith?
Porcello is one of those players who will cost more than he's worth Â
Stroman is a downgrade to Wheeler. They need to counter that by fortifying the backend of the rotation. Matz is Matz, I no longer expect 'the light to go on. It's not happening, he is what he is. A talented but inconsistent headcase on the mound. So we better go out and upgrade over what Vargas brought to the table.
An aside on the Cohen negotiations. He's in a tricky spot. The Wilponsis are slimy weasels that can't be trusted. They're into all kinda shady crap. Cohen isn't going to start 'saving the Mets' until the team is his, signed sealed and delivered. He'd just be strengthening the Wilponsis position which could make the deal more expensive for him or even provide them some out to slip from his grasp. Bottomline don't expect an infusion of new money until he has the rats signatures on the dotted line.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
·
2m
Mets are seemingly high on Max Moroff, the infielder they signed to minor league deal. They're flying him to NY later this month to meet personally with Beltran and the analytics dept. Someone to watch.
that it appears the Wilpons debt was headed toward the limit set by MLB. It almost sounds like this "I wish MLB would force them to sell"... essentially happened.
that it appears the Wilpons debt was headed toward the limit set by MLB. It almost sounds like this "I wish MLB would force them to sell"... essentially happened.
I completely buy that this happened. Or that the debt is so bad there's no alternative. There is no other way the Wilpons would give up control and it probably would have had to happen earlier if they didn't make money over those 2 playoff runs.
Wagner had the league with the view they lost 120 million over the past 2 years and were nearing their debt limit. If they really blame attendance (2.4 million) then really this was inevitable. Fans don't pack the stadium for "okay" rosters and okay rosters don't cosistently win. 2018 the team was terrible, 2019 they didn't make additions fans come out to see (36 year old Cano and a closer). Winning the season before and big additions pique fan interest.
Wagner had the league with the view they lost 120 million over the past 2 years and were nearing their debt limit. If they really blame attendance (2.4 million) then really this was inevitable. Fans don't pack the stadium for "okay" rosters and okay rosters don't cosistently win. 2018 the team was terrible, 2019 they didn't make additions fans come out to see (36 year old Cano and a closer). Winning the season before and big additions pique fan interest.
Exactly - so let's look at the timeline.
2015 - enter season with a bottom 10 payroll, go to WS, make $$.
2016 - payroll remained flat, got a WC game, presumably made even more money selling off 2015 and having a competitive season.
2017 - payroll finally increased to league average after 5 years of declining payrolls (though it was lower factoring in the insurance money). When the season went south the GM made comments about "proving to ownership that they could save money at the deadline" if things don't work out. Signs of fragile finances emerge again.
2018 - offseason started with the GM talking about making improvements like Lorenzo Cain, then the payroll remained flat. Undersold assets at deadline to save $. We now know they were staring down huge losses again.
2019 - offseason started by hiring a "creative" and media savy GM to "go for it" and putting Robinson Cano's carcass on the future credit card in exchange for saving money in the present. And they gave up talent (kelenic) instead of spending $ on a deep FA class of rp. Didn't work, no playoffs, no fan enthusiasm for 2020, no money to spend.
Which brings us to the present day where we've now heard they lost $100+ plus the past 2 years (2018-2019), they have no money to spend, and very little hope of competing in a division that has the WS champs and division winner spending more than them, plus the Phillies.
Wilpon's were at the debt limit and staring down another $60m+ loss in 2020. They finally did the only logical thing and bailed.
that jersey is clean - they should never change it again Â
says teams expect Treinan to sign in the next few days.
Seems like the type of guy we'd want to gamble on. Have a feeling he's doing to end up with more guaranteed $$$ than people think. A bit concerning that OAK let him go, they tend to have good scouts.
Can't wait till the Mets deal Lowrie and cash to the A's for nothing and he ends up rebounding and putting up a 3.5 WAR season with the Mets footing the bill.
if he sticks on an active roster all season. He does not have Jesus Flores upside IMO.
Quote:
MetsMinors.Net
@Mets_Minors
New Post: Mets May Lose Shervyen Newton In Rule 5 Draft http://metsminors.net/?p=38526 #Mets
Yes he is young (will still be 20 years old on Opening Day), but that is a gamble that I would make if I were the Mets as he hit .209 with strikeouts in 32.86% of his AB's in the South Atlantic League. If the Mets had an open spot I would have liked to have seen them gamble on Sterling Sharp from the Washington Nationals in the Rule 5 Draft. He has posted some extreme ground ball tendencies in the minors and, unlike most Rule 5 arms, he hasn't completely bombed as a starter so far.
@JackCurryYES
Betances is likely to sign 1-year deal to boost his value after a lost 2019. Yanks have engaged w/ him. Keep an eye on Tampa Bay, too. Also, FWIW, one of Beltran’s friends held a congratulatory dinner after he got the Mets job. The only active player who attended was Betances.
Jon Heyman
✔
@JonHeyman
Sergio Romo is drawing significant interest: a’s, twins, marlins, phillies, Red Sox, perhaps even giants, where Romo won rings and closed out 2012 Workd Series. Deal likely will come at meetings.
NY Daily News Sports
@NYDNSports
·
53m
As record deals whiz by, it increasingly seems like Mets will remain inactive at Winter Meetings https://trib.al/iRbp2qG
@deeshathosar
"It increasingly seems like, this time around, their prized offseason possession was Beltran. Even though the Mets like their roster heading into the 2020 season, that spells trouble for the still-obvious holes that need mending. Van Wagenen is sure to use the next four days in San Diego to his advantage, but only time will tell if he’s willing to pull the trigger or stay put and bet on the team he already has.
" Link - ( New Window )
Wilpons aren't going to spend until deal with Cohen is agreed to Â
the MLB approval is a formality but I'd imagine things are basically frozen until after that deal gets agreed unless they are revenue neutral. So maybe there's a dom smith trade or another Brach-level signing.
I'd almost rather that though then force a move that doesn't leverage the entire might of the big market team we may finally become under Cohen - like Porcello. Why waste decent money on him when we will soon be able to hopefully spend more on a player who could really make an impact here? Like Bumgarner or Keuchel or whoever.
Shwartz
Multiple sources have told me that the #Mets are going to be signing a reliever very soon. The group includes Daniel Hudson, Dellin Betances, Will Harris, and Blake Treinen. More to come.
Tim Britton
✔
@TimBritton
Van Wagenen said the Mets were interested in bringing Wheeler back, but "the value for investment didn't line up." Team got out when "the price point was going beyond how we valued him."
We all figured this out here but on MMO many posters doubted this: Â
BVW: "we traded for Marcus Stroman because we saw that starting pitching was going to be expensive and difficult to acquire, so we tried to get out ahead of that"
Reporter: "Did you see the trade for Stroman as the replacement for Wheeler"
Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO
·
47m
The biggest takeaway from the Brodie Van Wagenen press conference was that the Mets are looking at “depth,” certainly didn’t sound like a GM that is allowed to do anything but bottom feed.
the timing of the ownership change is clearly going to impact things Â
when deals of this magnitude are the finish line the desperately selling party just isn't going to outlay cash they won't get back. Once there's an agreement things will change and getting rid of the wilponzis is the best reason i can think of to have to bottom feed for a few more months. We've been used to it for 20 years, a few more months won't be the end of the world.
It does suck that of course this is the year everything is happening early.
big moves, but I also know the Mets have holes, and dumpster diving doesn't close the gap (on paper) at least to win the division.
Going in to april with the goal of the wild card has to change. "come and get us" needs to be real.
the Mets need:
a starting pitcher
two bullpen arms (not dumpster dives, but legit arms)
probably an every day CFer
a defensive catcher
right now (and I realize it's December 9, so I'm not freaking out) the Mets are probably 4th in the division.
There is no way they are going out and getting a CF. Marisinick was the CF they wanted to add. They'd have to trade off Conforto or Nimmo to even entertain it IMO. We mostly agree with the rest though.
@TimBritton
Replying to @TimBritton
Who is the starting third baseman? Van Wagenen: "We'll have to see how spring training goes. I think the beauty of our roster is that we do have versatility which gives us a variety of options based on health, performance and best lineup configurations."
I love our depth right now... Im sure it will create many offseason arguments about who the starters are or where they should be but I have a healthy team shaking out with a
JD Davis, Jed Lowrie, Dom Smith, Jake Marisnick, backup C (Castro please) bench.
That is a fantastic bench that hedges against many injuries in many ways.
big moves, but I also know the Mets have holes, and dumpster diving doesn't close the gap (on paper) at least to win the division.
Going in to april with the goal of the wild card has to change. "come and get us" needs to be real.
the Mets need:
a starting pitcher
two bullpen arms (not dumpster dives, but legit arms)
probably an every day CFer
a defensive catcher
right now (and I realize it's December 9, so I'm not freaking out) the Mets are probably 4th in the division.
There is no way they are going out and getting a CF. Marisinick was the CF they wanted to add. They'd have to trade off Conforto or Nimmo to even entertain it IMO. We mostly agree with the rest though.
I believe they wanted JBJ, and he would absolutely be an every day CFer (not the offensive upside of Nimmo, but far superior defensively), but the price was too steep.
And to be honest I wouldn't overpay for him, but in the Red Sox situation (salary dump) the Mets shouldn't have to overpay for a guy like JBJ. But the last time the Mets got involved in a salary dump we wound up losing Kelenic and Dunn.
big moves, but I also know the Mets have holes, and dumpster diving doesn't close the gap (on paper) at least to win the division.
Going in to april with the goal of the wild card has to change. "come and get us" needs to be real.
the Mets need:
a starting pitcher
two bullpen arms (not dumpster dives, but legit arms)
probably an every day CFer
a defensive catcher
right now (and I realize it's December 9, so I'm not freaking out) the Mets are probably 4th in the division.
There is no way they are going out and getting a CF. Marisinick was the CF they wanted to add. They'd have to trade off Conforto or Nimmo to even entertain it IMO. We mostly agree with the rest though.
I believe they wanted JBJ, and he would absolutely be an every day CFer (not the offensive upside of Nimmo, but far superior defensively), but the price was too steep.
And to be honest I wouldn't overpay for him, but in the Red Sox situation (salary dump) the Mets shouldn't have to overpay for a guy like JBJ. But the last time the Mets got involved in a salary dump we wound up losing Kelenic and Dunn.
I disagree. He would have be in the "mix" at CF but he wouldnt have been the starter every day. He's had a 89, 90, 90 wRC+ the last three years. Nimmo wouldnt have gone to the bench for that and if you move Nimmo to LF, Cespedes, JD and others would still need to get time too.
JD Davis should be traded. I know you like JDD, I do too, but he's more valuable in the AL where he can DH and the Mets could use him in a trade to add a significant reliever or even a starter.
That they were looking to trade nimmo or conforto or 2) irrationally building him up because there is no way he is the every day starting center fielder even on a team that may suck like the Mets next year
The only every day CF options better than Nimmo were Marte/Cain Â
Marte was way too expensive in trade cost.
Cain likely way too expensive for Wilpons.
As a hitter Nimmo is about as good as you can do in CF so upgrading him isn't easy other than with elite D. The guy they got from Houston seems like a good fit.
That's not to say they aren't being negligent in other areas like catcher and pitching depth.
JD Davis should be traded. I know you like JDD, I do too, but he's more valuable in the AL where he can DH and the Mets could use him in a trade to add a significant reliever or even a starter.
but it's a moot point.
Everybody said Castellanos was unplayable last year and yet he improved his D a lot in one year (a 10 DRS swing). That was JD Davis's first full season in the OF. I want to see if he can get better out there first. Young controllable players like that dont grow on trees. Keep the depth. In a year Ces, Lowrie, and others will be gone. Conforto might be gone soon too.
For the same reasons, I want Dom kept around too. No reason to trade away these guys for pennies on the dollar.
If Ces has been taking batting practice for weeks now and is running, I'd be shocked if he doesnt show up to ST intending to claim LF in a contract year.
IMO. The only difference is the Astros had a more talented OF so Jake got less playing time. Almost the same exact offensive profiles and Marisnick might actually be better defensively.
That they were looking to trade nimmo or conforto or 2) irrationally building him up because there is no way he is the every day starting center fielder even on a team that may suck like the Mets next year
BVW? He actually singled out Nimmo as a reason for the late season success and said it showed his 18 wasn't a fluke. Made me feel pretty good actually that he was finally mentioned.
analytics, and I don't think JD Davis is "unplayable" but he's absolutely more valuable in the AL where he can DH at least occasionally.
I just don't think he has an every day position and his bat is good enough he deserves to be in the lineup daily or close to it.
I also agree, I'm not trading Dom Smith unless I get an overpay.
Well if you dont think Ces is gonna play, than JD is your LF IMO with McNeil at 3B. Im guessing Lowrie gets a little play at 3B too moving McNeil to a corner at times... but for the most part it will be JD-Nimmo-Conforto with Jake coming in late. I do think Ces will play though but Im fine with JD being the first guy off the bench and spelling Yo regularly if thats the case.
There is no way they are going out and getting a CF. Marisinick was the CF they wanted to add. [/quote]
Marisinick was the CF they could afford. Not that they really wanted
There is no way they are going out and getting a CF. Marisinick was the CF they wanted to add.
Marisinick was the CF they could afford. Not that they really wanted [/quote]
Who was the CF they couldn't afford even at any price? We know about Marte even though he's not even really a CF anymore. And he likely would have cost a bunch of prospects. No thanks on that one.
Seriously. Feels good to embarrass another team at home for once.
Sidenote - how insane is it that the same guy coaching the team Pat Shurmur's beating tonight also beat Belichek in a SB?
Well the Giants are playing the Eagles. It was an awesome first half. but something tells me this game is far from over. as dead as the Eagles look right now, we all know stranger things have happened.
There is no way they are going out and getting a CF. Marisinick was the CF they wanted to add.
Marisinick was the CF they could afford. Not that they really wanted
Who was the CF they couldn't afford even at any price? We know about Marte even though he's not even really a CF anymore. And he likely would have cost a bunch of prospects. No thanks on that one. [/quote]
Sorry, should have said player, not specified CF. It was a low budget, low risk move. Not a difference maker a lagares replacement that's marginally better isnt something to hang our hats on when the division is getting better
John Happ. Do you make a trade for him with a lot of salary help?
Nope. Owed 17 million + a vested option. The Mets already are close to tapped out and he's coming off an awful season. If Porcello and Miley are too expensive there is no realistic number Happ makes sense.
Oh cool both @Nationals and @Phillies have looked into a trade for Kris Bryant , @Mets can't afford Porcello/Miley-types. Mets baseball... catch the fever!! #Mets
Also a good PR -- if it's primarily a bench move, it's fine.
i want to see the entire OF plan and where he fits in before really opining.
So maybe Mets see some power potential
85 wRC+ the past 2 seasons, 79 career. Awful numbers average aside and that's with the Astros cheating.
Quote:
Marisnek was buried on the Astros outfield. Has power and speed. Yes, the average isn't great, but the rest is pretty good.
85 wRC+ the past 2 seasons, 79 career. Awful numbers average aside and that's with the Astros cheating.
Are we sure the cheating is really an impact? I mean JD David would've had the benefit of cheating if it was really going on throughout the organization and he did better when he got here.
Quote:
In comment 14704162 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
Marisnek was buried on the Astros outfield. Has power and speed. Yes, the average isn't great, but the rest is pretty good.
85 wRC+ the past 2 seasons, 79 career. Awful numbers average aside and that's with the Astros cheating.
Are we sure the cheating is really an impact? I mean JD David would've had the benefit of cheating if it was really going on throughout the organization and he did better when he got here.
JD Davis had 165 total AB's over 2 seasons in Houston and mashed in the minors. He likely would have mashed in Houston given enough time.
Or trading for Stroman while not just re-signing a better potential wheeler.
New York Mets
@Mets
We’ve signed OF Jarrett Parker and INF Max Moroff (
@max_moroff
) to minor league deals with invites to major league #SpringTraining. They join Chasen Shreve who signed a minor league contract with an invite to major league Spring Training in November. #Mets
Quote:
Marisnek was buried on the Astros outfield. Has power and speed. Yes, the average isn't great, but the rest is pretty good.
85 wRC+ the past 2 seasons, 79 career. Awful numbers average aside and that's with the Astros cheating.
@NYPost_Mets
·
47m
MLB scout on Jake Marisnick: “You want to go with defense in center field and Lagares was going backwards a lot. This guy is not a savior by any means. He will have a good day here and there. But at least he’s a legitimate guy that can run balls down in the gaps and throw.”
@NYPost_Mets
·
47m
MLB scout on Jake Marisnick: “You want to go with defense in center field and Lagares was going backwards a lot. This guy is not a savior by any means. He will have a good day here and there. But at least he’s a legitimate guy that can run balls down in the gaps and throw.”
I'm not enthused by this move but it makes sense - and Beltran is likely familiar with him.
More broadly I'm disappointed because I'd have really pushed to add a true GG caliber defender up the middle at either CF or C though, and obviously options are dwindling after Grandal signed. Cain seems like the only other guy who fits that criteria out there and who knows if he's available. Plus his age is risky.
You really need to stop sniffing glue....lol
@mikemayerMMO
·
29m
Jeff Wilpon is notorious for meddling into small minor league moves like this.
Link - ( New Window )
Cohen can't take over soon enough.
1. it's a short-term, short money contract
2. it means they Mets are spending money on bullpen and defense
He's regressed dramatically since his CY season, but he'd be the 4/5 starter here.
Pretty nice spin rates Dan!
Quote:
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
·
47m
MLB scout on Jake Marisnick: “You want to go with defense in center field and Lagares was going backwards a lot. This guy is not a savior by any means. He will have a good day here and there. But at least he’s a legitimate guy that can run balls down in the gaps and throw.”
I'm not enthused by this move but it makes sense - and Beltran is likely familiar with him.
More broadly I'm disappointed because I'd have really pushed to add a true GG caliber defender up the middle at either CF or C though, and obviously options are dwindling after Grandal signed. Cain seems like the only other guy who fits that criteria out there and who knows if he's available. Plus his age is risky.
There are rumors that Atlanta is shopping Inciarte. They have both of their top CF prospects in AAA so they are willing to move Inciarte who is coming off his worst season. Injuries are likely the cause for his struggles but the Braves would be selling low.
I was hoping we could add another lefty to the rotation as matz is so mind bogglingly inconsistent but they are hard to come by.
I was hoping we could add another lefty to the rotation as matz is so mind bogglingly inconsistent but they are hard to come by.
Torrag,
He's really not. Porcello posted a 4.76 FIP last season and has a 4.45 FIP over his last 3. That's 79th in the league behind Jesse Chavez. There is significant evidence pointing to him headed in the wrong direction.
Hopefully this puts to rest the absurd Marte rumors and assures Nimmo to be in CF where he belongs.
Would have loved Shogo for this spot, but this is likely just as good. The 5th OF will almost never play on this team but we still need late inning D.
Now go get Castro, Keuchel, Betances, and Brach!
Hopefully this puts to rest the absurd Marte rumors and assures Nimmo to be in CF where he belongs.
Would have loved Shogo for this spot, but this is likely just as good. The 5th OF will almost never play on this team but we still need late inning D.
Now go get Castro, Keuchel, Betances, and Brach!
Blake Taylor is "insanely old"? He was 23 this past season and finished the year in AAA. He was 1.3 years YOUNGER than the league in the EL this season and .1 years older than the FSL.
Jacob Resnick
@Jacob_Resnick
I’m not losing sleep over Blake Taylor but he was touching 97 once he moved to the bullpen and has a high-spin breaking ball. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a role in Houston’s ‘pen before the end of the year.
Not that SWR/Kay were lesser knowns but I truly believe the Stroman trade is going to ultimately end up looking as bad as the Kelenic trade unless he goes on to resign and way outperform Wheeler over the next few years (which at this point would seem unlikely). Just so pointless.
That sounds good to me. I would do it even if Donaldson was brought back. Lowrie would be great insurance if Riley isn’t ready for the full time 3B job. There have been some rumblings that they might consider moving Dansby Swanson which would allow Albies to move back to SS but that would open a hole at 2B with no prospect ready for at least a year. Lowrie could split time with Camargo in that scenario.
Jake Marisnick on Shallow Fly Balls
Opportunities* 78
Plays Made 59
Expected Plays Made 50
Plays Above Expected 9**
* Balls with Catch Probability >0%
** T-2nd among CF
And a little bonus nugget from this article on Maldonado - who the cheating genius' have acquired twice at the deadline, ended up getting paid less than we paid TDA for a couple months last year, and is a FA again right now.
Behind the plate, the Astros split between Martin Maldonado and Robinson Chirinos. Maldonado is Cole’s personal catcher and could start if the Astros use a bullpen game again. Maldonado has a reputation of being one of the best defensive catchers in the game. He ranked among the best pitch blockers this season and is typically one of the leaders in pitch framing and basestealing deterrence, though he was just a smidge above average in both this season.
Cole’s fine with that. He has a 1.30 ERA and a nearly 8-to-1 strikeout-to-walk ratio in the 90 1/3 innings Maldonado has caught him.
What makes the Astros D great - ( New Window )
I agree. Another wtf move.
This one was on the Athletic behind paywall.
Ranking the best defensive outfields in baseball right now ($) - ( New Window )
Quote:
if you guys don't get Donaldson back, maybe a Lowrie for Inciarte swap makes sense? I believe $ is similar.
That sounds good to me. I would do it even if Donaldson was brought back. Lowrie would be great insurance if Riley isn’t ready for the full time 3B job. There have been some rumblings that they might consider moving Dansby Swanson which would allow Albies to move back to SS but that would open a hole at 2B with no prospect ready for at least a year. Lowrie could split time with Camargo in that scenario.
Too bad we didn't consummate it before BVW decided to trade for Marsinek. I'd possibly still take Inciarte though. Give him a shot in CF every day with Nimmo/JDD in LF and Conforto in RF (Mcneil at 3B). Marsinek can still mix in against lefties.
Not that SWR/Kay were lesser knowns but I truly believe the Stroman trade is going to ultimately end up looking as bad as the Kelenic trade unless he goes on to resign and way outperform Wheeler over the next few years (which at this point would seem unlikely). Just so pointless.
I tend to agree but Kay is a flyball pitcher and Peterson is a ground ball pitcher. I think BVW is really emphasizing ground ball pitchers as a way of countering HR.
That said, nothing that will be done one free agent side will tamper my happiness over the Cohen news. The end is finally in sight if we have to ruin this current window due to financial cheapness yet again so be it.
Quote:
In comment 14704363 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
·
47m
MLB scout on Jake Marisnick: “You want to go with defense in center field and Lagares was going backwards a lot. This guy is not a savior by any means. He will have a good day here and there. But at least he’s a legitimate guy that can run balls down in the gaps and throw.”
I'm not enthused by this move but it makes sense - and Beltran is likely familiar with him.
More broadly I'm disappointed because I'd have really pushed to add a true GG caliber defender up the middle at either CF or C though, and obviously options are dwindling after Grandal signed. Cain seems like the only other guy who fits that criteria out there and who knows if he's available. Plus his age is risky.
There are rumors that Atlanta is shopping Inciarte. They have both of their top CF prospects in AAA so they are willing to move Inciarte who is coming off his worst season. Injuries are likely the cause for his struggles but the Braves would be selling low.
There is no way the Braves are trading Inciarte to the mets.
Guy is tough on righties and will be nice in the backend imo.
and not put them in positions to fail.
though the 3-batter rule will be interesting for guys like Brach.
He's also had some impressive seasons with the Orioles only a couple of seasons ago. But even so, as a 6th or 7th option in the pen I think its a solid move. He grew up a Mets fan too which probably explains the huge discount.
I know most of us didn't buy it but in case there were any lingering doubts about how dysfunctional the Wilponzis were/are:
In 2012, with the economy rebounding, the Mets sold 12 minority shares in the team, including one to Cohen, raising $240 million. That enabled them to pay back loans that were overdue.
Their two-thirds ownership of Sportsnet New York, the regional sports network, has helped cover financial shortfalls related to the team, which is now carrying hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, exacerbating tension between Jeff Wilpon and his relatives. In recent months, selling the franchise became the most equitable way to divide up the asset among the Wilpon family members.
The Wilpon Family Chronicles - ( New Window )
I know most of us didn't buy it but in case there were any lingering doubts about how dysfunctional the Wilponzis were/are:
Quote:
People familiar with the team’s finances said the Mets have lost more than $60 million during each of the past two seasons, as the team struggled to attract fans, and they are at the limit of debt allowed by Major League Baseball rules.
In 2012, with the economy rebounding, the Mets sold 12 minority shares in the team, including one to Cohen, raising $240 million. That enabled them to pay back loans that were overdue.
Their two-thirds ownership of Sportsnet New York, the regional sports network, has helped cover financial shortfalls related to the team, which is now carrying hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, exacerbating tension between Jeff Wilpon and his relatives. In recent months, selling the franchise became the most equitable way to divide up the asset among the Wilpon family members.
The Wilpon Family Chronicles - ( New Window )
ZGiants? Pretty sure your refrain was always debt was no longer an issue every season? Please chime in.
I think the epic rants tend to happen more in real time but who knows. obviously the deal isn't final yet but hopefully there can be less hostility around everything to do with this entire franchise going forward now that the wilponzi taint appears to finally be lifting.
Unexciting and there are others I'd probably prefer (Bumgarner, Keuchel) but a fine move. I'd hope Porcello is cheap enough they can also grab a Gio Gonzalez type on a 1 year deal too. Be nice to have some real depth for once.
Quote:
and the madoff mess was behind us? It "was a choice" not to give out mega deals? And recouping salary savings at the deadline wasn't more important than getting good prospects?
I know most of us didn't buy it but in case there were any lingering doubts about how dysfunctional the Wilponzis were/are:
Quote:
People familiar with the team’s finances said the Mets have lost more than $60 million during each of the past two seasons, as the team struggled to attract fans, and they are at the limit of debt allowed by Major League Baseball rules.
In 2012, with the economy rebounding, the Mets sold 12 minority shares in the team, including one to Cohen, raising $240 million. That enabled them to pay back loans that were overdue.
Their two-thirds ownership of Sportsnet New York, the regional sports network, has helped cover financial shortfalls related to the team, which is now carrying hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, exacerbating tension between Jeff Wilpon and his relatives. In recent months, selling the franchise became the most equitable way to divide up the asset among the Wilpon family members.
The Wilpon Family Chronicles - ( New Window )
ZGiants? Pretty sure your refrain was always debt was no longer an issue every season? Please chime in.
Complete and utter bullshit. Never said debt was no longer an issue once. Please show me one post where I ever said that. I said things were improving year by year... and they were as evidenced by our increased payroll every season for years now. Also said Sandy liked to work with a buffer (10-15 AAV) and a few items along those lines. This forum is searchable... If you can find one comment where I said the Mets could spend literally whatever they wanted and that money was limitless once again, Ill mail you a $100.
Actually Im not. Never said payroll was limitless. What a ridiculous straw man. The Mets are, however, a luxury tax team... Something MANY here scoffed at and said we would never be at. I vividly remember being told the Mets wouldnt sign Cespedes because they didn't have the money, etc and then there were crickets here every time they did add payroll over the last few years...
So the Wilpons lost 30 million each of the last two seasons? What the hell does that have to do with anything I ever mentioned?
I'd much prefer Keuchel.
Porcello? Bleh.
MLBTR predicted 4/$72m to the Twins. They'd actually pegged Wheeler to the Phils on a 5 year deal too (undershot the $ a little).
But if we could get him on a reasonable 3-4 year deal... definitely.
Personally, Keuchel would be my target and I'd focus on the pen still. Go after Betances and McHugh. If Keuchel is too much, Id even consider Gio if it meant improving the pen with a couple of really good pieces.
Sign Jason Castro as the cherry on the top and let's go to war.
But there's many ways to skin a cat. We'll see what they do.
Castro would be the perfect lefty compliment IMO.
To give you an idea of how bizarre the 2019 season was for Edwin Diaz, here’s the list of pitchers in Major League history with a season of at least 5.00 ERA, 15.0 K/9, and 50 innings pitched:
Edwin Diaz - 2019
@Jacob_Resnick
·
1m
Appears the #Mets signed Mexican RHP Francisco Ríos in November. He's 24 and played 7 years in the Blue Jays' system, reaching Triple-A, though he spent most of last year in the Mexican League.
This article says his fastball reaches 96-97 mph: https://albat.com/lasmayores/Met
Not saying it’s the case with Ramos, but it would frustrate the hell out of me if we are less effective because Ramos doesn’t prepare accordingly.
I'm not sure though who calls pitches for all teams - some teams it gets called from the dugout, not the catcher.
@MarcCarig
·
2m
Chris Flexen, who was DFA’d by the Mets, is heading to Korea. Per a source, the 25-year old righty will be pitching for the Doosan Bears.
And I'm not talking about crazy errors or game changing plays, just a ball Nimmo can't get to that Lagares does. Or a turn of a DP Cano is a little slow on. By contrast a great defensive team is shortening drives and creating turnovers. A single at bat can change a baseball game so opportunities can't be overstated, especially opportunities with men on base or late in the game. Some will say "Nimmo's defense is fine" or "when has Cano's D ever lost a game" but that misses the point. Nobody has ever given up a point specifically on a 5 yard illegal contact play. It just gives the other team the first down that extends the game winning drive.
Optimists liked to compare our roster to the Nats and by far the biggest difference between the 2 teams was defense. The Nats were 91 runs better by DRS even though they were just 18th best in baseball. The Braves were 130 runs better. We were 26th in MLB.
Bringing it back to Ramos - catcher is obviously 1 of the premium defensive positions so that's going to have an outsized impact on the overall team defense. If the goal is to field as good of a defensive team as possible because it helps you stack the odds in your favor (like TO battle), having a negative player at a critical position is like having a fumbler at RB. Ramos is a big slow guy with limited athleticism and flexibility. We know he has trouble framing certain low pitches. We know some of the pitchers don't love throwing to him for whatever reason. So he's a big net negative. I'd guess he makes enough bad plays that every series he's giving the other team an extra out we aren't getting and that adds up.
He does have a good bat and a reasonable contract though - so to me it's a top need to secure an athletic defensive catcher with enough talent to be a starter a good chunk of the time and play late in games. Someone who can steal back some of the opportunities Ramos is going to give away. That is not Nido. Maldonado is the best defensive option available but ideally there'd be a younger player with a little more upside we could trade for.
Presumably Cohen knows very well what he's getting into re: the team's finances and all reports are he's ready and willing to spend. He is going to be the richest owner in all baseball.
Also the last 2 years cited as "losses" the team hasn't made the playoffs and appeared dead in June - which obviously impacts the bottom line. The year prior (2017) they also didn't make the playoffs but presumably finances may have been better that year because they had made the playoffs the year before (2016) - or else the bad finances of the team may have been quoted as "the past 3 years". So point being it very well may be the case that this team could easily be profitable if the fanbase isn't being beaten down by the Wilponzis.
2017 was probably the last year there was positive ticket sales momentum from the offseason too since they had made the playoffs in '15/'16, and were coming off giving Cespedes a big deal which everyone was excited about at the time.
Yes. It's basically the difference between catching a ball in a good receiving position vs. a bad receiving position. It may seem inconsequential but there are tons of emerging stats on the importance of it in the overall mix of catcher defense and Ramos specifically did poorly catching lower balls.
1 question I'd have that I just realized, how does pitch framing get impacted if they go to robot umps? Is pitch framing just a human perception error?
I always understood the psychological aspect of framing - catchers should do it if it helps of course...
But it seems like the league even KNOWING it's a thing doesn't work to remove it. Fine, you see the human error, then maybe create rules & processes to minimize it? Vs measuring how good a catcher is at basically 'faking' the ump out and getting him to just make the wrong call in your favor? Especially when it flies in the face of the most fundamental rules of the game
You'd think an even playing field to determine the better team is the goal, but I don't think I've seen a pro league in my ~40 years that actually legit attempts to do that
In the short term, as long as the Wilpons are physically writing the checks it's going to be biz as usual. In fact it may even be worse than usual since they are 1 foot out the door and are probably even more bitter than usual.
The question is when will Cohen be able to start injecting cash flow? Presumably since he's already a partial owner it can happen prior to the full ownership change being approved by MLB since those approvals are generally a formality. But it probably cannot happen until his agreement with the Wilponzis is completed.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
Hi from San Diego. The Mets are looking at back end starters, at least one more reliever and probably not a catcher. Maybe they trade Dom Smith?
An aside on the Cohen negotiations. He's in a tricky spot. The Wilponsis are slimy weasels that can't be trusted. They're into all kinda shady crap. Cohen isn't going to start 'saving the Mets' until the team is his, signed sealed and delivered. He'd just be strengthening the Wilponsis position which could make the deal more expensive for him or even provide them some out to slip from his grasp. Bottomline don't expect an infusion of new money until he has the rats signatures on the dotted line.
I don't think this is a bad strategy per se. I would rather a lottery ticket than to overpay on a shitty Porcello contract.
The only way I would like Porcello is a short-term, low $$ contract. And I doubt that happens.
@martinonyc
·
2m
Mets are seemingly high on Max Moroff, the infielder they signed to minor league deal. They're flying him to NY later this month to meet personally with Beltran and the analytics dept. Someone to watch.
@Mets
·
1m
Our 2020 coaching staff is set. #Mets
More Info
👉
https://atmlb.com/36hotri
He received high praise for his work with the Twins relievers in 2019.
I completely buy that this happened. Or that the debt is so bad there's no alternative. There is no other way the Wilpons would give up control and it probably would have had to happen earlier if they didn't make money over those 2 playoff runs.
@Jacob_Resnick
·
7m
The #Mets’ official 2020 home jersey, as announced by @Nike
this morning:
Exactly - so let's look at the timeline.
2015 - enter season with a bottom 10 payroll, go to WS, make $$.
2016 - payroll remained flat, got a WC game, presumably made even more money selling off 2015 and having a competitive season.
2017 - payroll finally increased to league average after 5 years of declining payrolls (though it was lower factoring in the insurance money). When the season went south the GM made comments about "proving to ownership that they could save money at the deadline" if things don't work out. Signs of fragile finances emerge again.
2018 - offseason started with the GM talking about making improvements like Lorenzo Cain, then the payroll remained flat. Undersold assets at deadline to save $. We now know they were staring down huge losses again.
2019 - offseason started by hiring a "creative" and media savy GM to "go for it" and putting Robinson Cano's carcass on the future credit card in exchange for saving money in the present. And they gave up talent (kelenic) instead of spending $ on a deep FA class of rp. Didn't work, no playoffs, no fan enthusiasm for 2020, no money to spend.
Which brings us to the present day where we've now heard they lost $100+ plus the past 2 years (2018-2019), they have no money to spend, and very little hope of competing in a division that has the WS champs and division winner spending more than them, plus the Phillies.
Wilpon's were at the debt limit and staring down another $60m+ loss in 2020. They finally did the only logical thing and bailed.
Seems like the type of guy we'd want to gamble on. Have a feeling he's doing to end up with more guaranteed $$$ than people think. A bit concerning that OAK let him go, they tend to have good scouts.
Can't wait till the Mets deal Lowrie and cash to the A's for nothing and he ends up rebounding and putting up a 3.5 WAR season with the Mets footing the bill.
@Mets_Minors
New Post: Mets May Lose Shervyen Newton In Rule 5 Draft http://metsminors.net/?p=38526 #Mets
Yankees seem like a good bet.
Quote:
Treinen
Yankees seem like a good bet.
Unless he's willing to get paid with Shake Shack the mets seem like a bad bet until there's a more official agreement reached with Cohen.
Quote:
MetsMinors.Net
@Mets_Minors
New Post: Mets May Lose Shervyen Newton In Rule 5 Draft http://metsminors.net/?p=38526 #Mets
Yes he is young (will still be 20 years old on Opening Day), but that is a gamble that I would make if I were the Mets as he hit .209 with strikeouts in 32.86% of his AB's in the South Atlantic League. If the Mets had an open spot I would have liked to have seen them gamble on Sterling Sharp from the Washington Nationals in the Rule 5 Draft. He has posted some extreme ground ball tendencies in the minors and, unlike most Rule 5 arms, he hasn't completely bombed as a starter so far.
These massive SP contracts in FA almost always end up bad. Sherzer probably the only exception.
Betances is likely to sign 1-year deal to boost his value after a lost 2019. Yanks have engaged w/ him. Keep an eye on Tampa Bay, too. Also, FWIW, one of Beltran’s friends held a congratulatory dinner after he got the Mets job. The only active player who attended was Betances.
These massive SP contracts in FA almost always end up bad. Sherzer probably the only exception.
Makes JDG's contract extension look like an absolute bargain right now.
@SotoC803
·
3m
If the Nationals use the same deferral terms as Strasburg's last contract.
(7 deferral years, 2.824% discount rate)
The contract will end up counting for 7 yr/$230.8M resulting in an AAV of $32.975M.
Betances
Lugo
Diaz
Wilson
Familia
Gsellman
McHugh
Jon Heyman
✔
@JonHeyman
Sergio Romo is drawing significant interest: a’s, twins, marlins, phillies, Red Sox, perhaps even giants, where Romo won rings and closed out 2012 Workd Series. Deal likely will come at meetings.
@NYDNSports
·
53m
As record deals whiz by, it increasingly seems like Mets will remain inactive at Winter Meetings https://trib.al/iRbp2qG
@deeshathosar
"It increasingly seems like, this time around, their prized offseason possession was Beltran. Even though the Mets like their roster heading into the 2020 season, that spells trouble for the still-obvious holes that need mending. Van Wagenen is sure to use the next four days in San Diego to his advantage, but only time will tell if he’s willing to pull the trigger or stay put and bet on the team he already has.
"
Link - ( New Window )
I'd almost rather that though then force a move that doesn't leverage the entire might of the big market team we may finally become under Cohen - like Porcello. Why waste decent money on him when we will soon be able to hopefully spend more on a player who could really make an impact here? Like Bumgarner or Keuchel or whoever.
@PeteAbe
Couple of #RedSox items;
* They are actively trying to trade Jackie Bradley Jr. and were engaged with the Mets before they turned to Marisnick.
* Sox are not actively involved with any of their free agents (Holt, Porcello, etc) beyond keeping tabs on them.
6:55 PM · Dec 9, 2019·TweetDeck
Van Wagenen said priorities are rotation depth, bullpen depth then next positional depth, perhaps a backup catcher #Mets.
Multiple sources have told me that the #Mets are going to be signing a reliever very soon. The group includes Daniel Hudson, Dellin Betances, Will Harris, and Blake Treinen. More to come.
✔
@TimBritton
Van Wagenen said the Mets were interested in bringing Wheeler back, but "the value for investment didn't line up." Team got out when "the price point was going beyond how we valued him."
Reporter: "Did you see the trade for Stroman as the replacement for Wheeler"
BVW: "I did"
Ill still take him simply because he was pretty solid for 3-4 years before his big 2018.
Certainly not paying him top dollars or anything but he looks like a worthy gamble.
Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO
·
47m
The biggest takeaway from the Brodie Van Wagenen press conference was that the Mets are looking at “depth,” certainly didn’t sound like a GM that is allowed to do anything but bottom feed.
It does suck that of course this is the year everything is happening early.
Phillies added Wheeler
Braves added Hamels, plus
Nats won the world series and retained strasburg
even the Marlins added
here is what our GM says:
@SNYtv
· 1h
"We have a lot of our needs already filled"
Phillies added Wheeler
Braves added Hamels, plus
Nats won the world series and retained strasburg
even the Marlins added
here is what our GM says:
Quote:
SNY
@SNYtv
· 1h
"We have a lot of our needs already filled"
I wouldnt go that far. Nats are about to lose Rendon. Braves added Hamels but is he better than Keuchel and Teheren? What if they lose Donaldson?
Lot of offseason left.
Probably wouldnt be smart for Brody to kick off his exact strategy at the start of the meetings.
But I also definitely dont think we are spending big coin. We are still a LT team and were never likely going over it by much if at all.
Give me Betances, Gio, Castro. All those guys should get 1-2 year deals and be fairly cheap.
Going in to april with the goal of the wild card has to change. "come and get us" needs to be real.
the Mets need:
a starting pitcher
two bullpen arms (not dumpster dives, but legit arms)
probably an every day CFer
a defensive catcher
right now (and I realize it's December 9, so I'm not freaking out) the Mets are probably 4th in the division.
Going in to april with the goal of the wild card has to change. "come and get us" needs to be real.
the Mets need:
a starting pitcher
two bullpen arms (not dumpster dives, but legit arms)
probably an every day CFer
a defensive catcher
right now (and I realize it's December 9, so I'm not freaking out) the Mets are probably 4th in the division.
There is no way they are going out and getting a CF. Marisinick was the CF they wanted to add. They'd have to trade off Conforto or Nimmo to even entertain it IMO. We mostly agree with the rest though.
Probably wouldnt be smart for Brody to kick off his exact strategy at the start of the meetings.
But I also definitely dont think we are spending big coin. We are still a LT team and were never likely going over it by much if at all.
Give me Betances, Gio, Castro. All those guys should get 1-2 year deals and be fairly cheap.
Are you Jeff Wilpon?
Replying to @TimBritton
Who is the starting third baseman? Van Wagenen: "We'll have to see how spring training goes. I think the beauty of our roster is that we do have versatility which gives us a variety of options based on health, performance and best lineup configurations."
Quote:
But we do have a few holes to fill. Backend SP'r. Another reliever, possibly two. Backup C.
Probably wouldnt be smart for Brody to kick off his exact strategy at the start of the meetings.
But I also definitely dont think we are spending big coin. We are still a LT team and were never likely going over it by much if at all.
Give me Betances, Gio, Castro. All those guys should get 1-2 year deals and be fairly cheap.
Are you Jeff Wilpon?
Why you dont think those guys help us?
JD Davis, Jed Lowrie, Dom Smith, Jake Marisnick, backup C (Castro please) bench.
That is a fantastic bench that hedges against many injuries in many ways.
Quote:
big moves, but I also know the Mets have holes, and dumpster diving doesn't close the gap (on paper) at least to win the division.
Going in to april with the goal of the wild card has to change. "come and get us" needs to be real.
the Mets need:
a starting pitcher
two bullpen arms (not dumpster dives, but legit arms)
probably an every day CFer
a defensive catcher
right now (and I realize it's December 9, so I'm not freaking out) the Mets are probably 4th in the division.
There is no way they are going out and getting a CF. Marisinick was the CF they wanted to add. They'd have to trade off Conforto or Nimmo to even entertain it IMO. We mostly agree with the rest though.
I believe they wanted JBJ, and he would absolutely be an every day CFer (not the offensive upside of Nimmo, but far superior defensively), but the price was too steep.
And to be honest I wouldn't overpay for him, but in the Red Sox situation (salary dump) the Mets shouldn't have to overpay for a guy like JBJ. But the last time the Mets got involved in a salary dump we wound up losing Kelenic and Dunn.
Quote:
In comment 14709696 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
big moves, but I also know the Mets have holes, and dumpster diving doesn't close the gap (on paper) at least to win the division.
Going in to april with the goal of the wild card has to change. "come and get us" needs to be real.
the Mets need:
a starting pitcher
two bullpen arms (not dumpster dives, but legit arms)
probably an every day CFer
a defensive catcher
right now (and I realize it's December 9, so I'm not freaking out) the Mets are probably 4th in the division.
There is no way they are going out and getting a CF. Marisinick was the CF they wanted to add. They'd have to trade off Conforto or Nimmo to even entertain it IMO. We mostly agree with the rest though.
I believe they wanted JBJ, and he would absolutely be an every day CFer (not the offensive upside of Nimmo, but far superior defensively), but the price was too steep.
And to be honest I wouldn't overpay for him, but in the Red Sox situation (salary dump) the Mets shouldn't have to overpay for a guy like JBJ. But the last time the Mets got involved in a salary dump we wound up losing Kelenic and Dunn.
I disagree. He would have be in the "mix" at CF but he wouldnt have been the starter every day. He's had a 89, 90, 90 wRC+ the last three years. Nimmo wouldnt have gone to the bench for that and if you move Nimmo to LF, Cespedes, JD and others would still need to get time too.
It would be Nimmo, JBJ, Conforto.
JD Davis should be traded. I know you like JDD, I do too, but he's more valuable in the AL where he can DH and the Mets could use him in a trade to add a significant reliever or even a starter.
but it's a moot point.
Cain likely way too expensive for Wilpons.
As a hitter Nimmo is about as good as you can do in CF so upgrading him isn't easy other than with elite D. The guy they got from Houston seems like a good fit.
That's not to say they aren't being negligent in other areas like catcher and pitching depth.
It would be Nimmo, JBJ, Conforto.
JD Davis should be traded. I know you like JDD, I do too, but he's more valuable in the AL where he can DH and the Mets could use him in a trade to add a significant reliever or even a starter.
but it's a moot point.
Everybody said Castellanos was unplayable last year and yet he improved his D a lot in one year (a 10 DRS swing). That was JD Davis's first full season in the OF. I want to see if he can get better out there first. Young controllable players like that dont grow on trees. Keep the depth. In a year Ces, Lowrie, and others will be gone. Conforto might be gone soon too.
For the same reasons, I want Dom kept around too. No reason to trade away these guys for pennies on the dollar.
If Ces has been taking batting practice for weeks now and is running, I'd be shocked if he doesnt show up to ST intending to claim LF in a contract year.
I just don't think he has an every day position and his bat is good enough he deserves to be in the lineup daily or close to it.
I also agree, I'm not trading Dom Smith unless I get an overpay.
BVW? He actually singled out Nimmo as a reason for the late season success and said it showed his 18 wasn't a fluke. Made me feel pretty good actually that he was finally mentioned.
I just don't think he has an every day position and his bat is good enough he deserves to be in the lineup daily or close to it.
I also agree, I'm not trading Dom Smith unless I get an overpay.
Well if you dont think Ces is gonna play, than JD is your LF IMO with McNeil at 3B. Im guessing Lowrie gets a little play at 3B too moving McNeil to a corner at times... but for the most part it will be JD-Nimmo-Conforto with Jake coming in late. I do think Ces will play though but Im fine with JD being the first guy off the bench and spelling Yo regularly if thats the case.
That would be a huge move IMO.
haha. yes...
Seriously. Feels good to embarrass another team at home for once.
Sidenote - how insane is it that the same guy coaching the team Pat Shurmur's beating tonight also beat Belichek in a SB?
[quote
There is no way they are going out and getting a CF. Marisinick was the CF they wanted to add. [/quote]
Marisinick was the CF they could afford. Not that they really wanted
[quote
There is no way they are going out and getting a CF. Marisinick was the CF they wanted to add.
Marisinick was the CF they could afford. Not that they really wanted [/quote]
Who was the CF they couldn't afford even at any price? We know about Marte even though he's not even really a CF anymore. And he likely would have cost a bunch of prospects. No thanks on that one.
Quote:
listen to those boos in Philly. So awesome.
Seriously. Feels good to embarrass another team at home for once.
Sidenote - how insane is it that the same guy coaching the team Pat Shurmur's beating tonight also beat Belichek in a SB?
Well the Giants are playing the Eagles. It was an awesome first half. but something tells me this game is far from over. as dead as the Eagles look right now, we all know stranger things have happened.
Quote:
In comment 14709778 ZGiants98 said:
[quote
There is no way they are going out and getting a CF. Marisinick was the CF they wanted to add.
Marisinick was the CF they could afford. Not that they really wanted
Who was the CF they couldn't afford even at any price? We know about Marte even though he's not even really a CF anymore. And he likely would have cost a bunch of prospects. No thanks on that one. [/quote]
Sorry, should have said player, not specified CF. It was a low budget, low risk move. Not a difference maker a lagares replacement that's marginally better isnt something to hang our hats on when the division is getting better
Nope. Owed 17 million + a vested option. The Mets already are close to tapped out and he's coming off an awful season. If Porcello and Miley are too expensive there is no realistic number Happ makes sense.
Why the hell were they testing for it to begin with? Is it a PED?
Link - ( New Window )
Been the case for 10 years, nothing really new. Hopefully Cohen delivers on the optimism.
That would be a huge move IMO.
I heard this too from my Yankee media friend, Hudson is also in the mix.
Quote:
for Marijuana in the minors will no longer occur.
Why the hell were they testing for it to begin with? Is it a PED?
Do they test mangers? It would definitely not shock me if Micky was under the influence at certain times last year.