You are right on. Brach is tough on righties and the lefties eat him up.
He's also had some impressive seasons with the Orioles only a couple of seasons ago. But even so, as a 6th or 7th option in the pen I think its a solid move. He grew up a Mets fan too which probably explains the huge discount.
I like signing Brach, but I think they should pass on Porcello. They Â
and the madoff mess was behind us? It "was a choice" not to give out mega deals? And recouping salary savings at the deadline wasn't more important than getting good prospects?
I know most of us didn't buy it but in case there were any lingering doubts about how dysfunctional the Wilponzis were/are:
Quote:
People familiar with the team’s finances said the Mets have lost more than $60 million during each of the past two seasons, as the team struggled to attract fans, and they are at the limit of debt allowed by Major League Baseball rules.
In 2012, with the economy rebounding, the Mets sold 12 minority shares in the team, including one to Cohen, raising $240 million. That enabled them to pay back loans that were overdue.
Their two-thirds ownership of Sportsnet New York, the regional sports network, has helped cover financial shortfalls related to the team, which is now carrying hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, exacerbating tension between Jeff Wilpon and his relatives. In recent months, selling the franchise became the most equitable way to divide up the asset among the Wilpon family members.
and the madoff mess was behind us? It "was a choice" not to give out mega deals? And recouping salary savings at the deadline wasn't more important than getting good prospects?
I know most of us didn't buy it but in case there were any lingering doubts about how dysfunctional the Wilponzis were/are:
Quote:
People familiar with the team’s finances said the Mets have lost more than $60 million during each of the past two seasons, as the team struggled to attract fans, and they are at the limit of debt allowed by Major League Baseball rules.
In 2012, with the economy rebounding, the Mets sold 12 minority shares in the team, including one to Cohen, raising $240 million. That enabled them to pay back loans that were overdue.
Their two-thirds ownership of Sportsnet New York, the regional sports network, has helped cover financial shortfalls related to the team, which is now carrying hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, exacerbating tension between Jeff Wilpon and his relatives. In recent months, selling the franchise became the most equitable way to divide up the asset among the Wilpon family members.
The Wilpon Family Chronicles - ( New Window )
ZGiants? Pretty sure your refrain was always debt was no longer an issue every season? Please chime in.
think so and go through his usual routine of name calling. Beyond that I'd guess it's more likely to just be a denial and something along the lines of "nobody ever said the wilpons were good owners".
I think the epic rants tend to happen more in real time but who knows. obviously the deal isn't final yet but hopefully there can be less hostility around everything to do with this entire franchise going forward now that the wilponzi taint appears to finally be lifting.
Unexciting and there are others I'd probably prefer (Bumgarner, Keuchel) but a fine move. I'd hope Porcello is cheap enough they can also grab a Gio Gonzalez type on a 1 year deal too. Be nice to have some real depth for once.
RE: RE: Remember when we were told there were no payroll limitations Â
and the madoff mess was behind us? It "was a choice" not to give out mega deals? And recouping salary savings at the deadline wasn't more important than getting good prospects?
I know most of us didn't buy it but in case there were any lingering doubts about how dysfunctional the Wilponzis were/are:
Quote:
People familiar with the team’s finances said the Mets have lost more than $60 million during each of the past two seasons, as the team struggled to attract fans, and they are at the limit of debt allowed by Major League Baseball rules.
In 2012, with the economy rebounding, the Mets sold 12 minority shares in the team, including one to Cohen, raising $240 million. That enabled them to pay back loans that were overdue.
Their two-thirds ownership of Sportsnet New York, the regional sports network, has helped cover financial shortfalls related to the team, which is now carrying hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, exacerbating tension between Jeff Wilpon and his relatives. In recent months, selling the franchise became the most equitable way to divide up the asset among the Wilpon family members.
The Wilpon Family Chronicles - ( New Window )
ZGiants? Pretty sure your refrain was always debt was no longer an issue every season? Please chime in.
Complete and utter bullshit. Never said debt was no longer an issue once. Please show me one post where I ever said that. I said things were improving year by year... and they were as evidenced by our increased payroll every season for years now. Also said Sandy liked to work with a buffer (10-15 AAV) and a few items along those lines. This forum is searchable... If you can find one comment where I said the Mets could spend literally whatever they wanted and that money was limitless once again, Ill mail you a $100.
debt has continued to be a huge issue. The fact that the Mets lost $60 million the last two years is pretty astounding, I thought they had exciting teams, especially in '19
your wrong. Just fess up and mvoe forward. No biggie.
Actually Im not. Never said payroll was limitless. What a ridiculous straw man. The Mets are, however, a luxury tax team... Something MANY here scoffed at and said we would never be at. I vividly remember being told the Mets wouldnt sign Cespedes because they didn't have the money, etc and then there were crickets here every time they did add payroll over the last few years...
So the Wilpons lost 30 million each of the last two seasons? What the hell does that have to do with anything I ever mentioned?
but I'd really like to grab him. We have the depth to rest him as much as necessary and he has the winning demeanor this team just needs to keep adding wherever we can. He's also only 30 years old so as much as it feels like people have put the nail in the coffin on him, who knows? He was worth 3 fwar last year and put up 200 ip.
MLBTR predicted 4/$72m to the Twins. They'd actually pegged Wheeler to the Phils on a 5 year deal too (undershot the $ a little).
Just nervous of all those miles on his arm... Feel like we'd be paying for the back 5 holes of his career or so.
But if we could get him on a reasonable 3-4 year deal... definitely.
Personally, Keuchel would be my target and I'd focus on the pen still. Go after Betances and McHugh. If Keuchel is too much, Id even consider Gio if it meant improving the pen with a couple of really good pieces.
Sign Jason Castro as the cherry on the top and let's go to war.
But there's many ways to skin a cat. We'll see what they do.
To give you an idea of how bizarre the 2019 season was for Edwin Diaz, here’s the list of pitchers in Major League history with a season of at least 5.00 ERA, 15.0 K/9, and 50 innings pitched:
Jacob Resnick
@Jacob_Resnick
·
1m
Appears the #Mets signed Mexican RHP Francisco Ríos in November. He's 24 and played 7 years in the Blue Jays' system, reaching Triple-A, though he spent most of last year in the Mexican League.
This article says his fastball reaches 96-97 mph: https://albat.com/lasmayores/Met
How much do you guys feel the catcher has in the success of Â
pitchers with game calling? We all know that the BP was bad last year and I’d be interested in seeing the splits between the catchers, but I still watched a lot of games last season and constantly scratched my head at the pitch selection. Seems like a preparation issue. I’ve heard a lot of successful catchers talk about their insane preparation but I have no clue if Ramos prepares the same way as well. I do know there were some pretty significant splits when it came to Noah and maybe Degrom.
Not saying it’s the case with Ramos, but it would frustrate the hell out of me if we are less effective because Ramos doesn’t prepare accordingly.
I'm not versed enough to say for sure, but experts do believe there is a tangible effect for pitch sequencing and pitch framing (positive and negative).
I'm not sure though who calls pitches for all teams - some teams it gets called from the dugout, not the catcher.
Marc Carig
@MarcCarig
·
2m
Chris Flexen, who was DFA’d by the Mets, is heading to Korea. Per a source, the 25-year old righty will be pitching for the Doosan Bears.
'constantly scratched my head at the pitch selection' Â
overall team defense is like the turnover battle or being more penalized in football, because at the end of the day bad defense gives your opponent more opportunities or extends opportunities to make them more dangerous (like penalties extend drives). We all know the numbers on how much likelier you are to lose a football game if you lose the TO battle.
And I'm not talking about crazy errors or game changing plays, just a ball Nimmo can't get to that Lagares does. Or a turn of a DP Cano is a little slow on. By contrast a great defensive team is shortening drives and creating turnovers. A single at bat can change a baseball game so opportunities can't be overstated, especially opportunities with men on base or late in the game. Some will say "Nimmo's defense is fine" or "when has Cano's D ever lost a game" but that misses the point. Nobody has ever given up a point specifically on a 5 yard illegal contact play. It just gives the other team the first down that extends the game winning drive.
Optimists liked to compare our roster to the Nats and by far the biggest difference between the 2 teams was defense. The Nats were 91 runs better by DRS even though they were just 18th best in baseball. The Braves were 130 runs better. We were 26th in MLB.
Bringing it back to Ramos - catcher is obviously 1 of the premium defensive positions so that's going to have an outsized impact on the overall team defense. If the goal is to field as good of a defensive team as possible because it helps you stack the odds in your favor (like TO battle), having a negative player at a critical position is like having a fumbler at RB. Ramos is a big slow guy with limited athleticism and flexibility. We know he has trouble framing certain low pitches. We know some of the pitchers don't love throwing to him for whatever reason. So he's a big net negative. I'd guess he makes enough bad plays that every series he's giving the other team an extra out we aren't getting and that adds up.
He does have a good bat and a reasonable contract though - so to me it's a top need to secure an athletic defensive catcher with enough talent to be a starter a good chunk of the time and play late in games. Someone who can steal back some of the opportunities Ramos is going to give away. That is not Nido. Maldonado is the best defensive option available but ideally there'd be a younger player with a little more upside we could trade for.
So I keep beating a drum that no one else seems concerned about Â
But the Mets did not really lose 60 million, in fact they likely had a rather large profit but because of the way their contract with sny is set up that profit goes to sny. Why MLB let them set it up that way I have no idea but the amount of revenue the Mets receive from sny is to me crazy low. Thus sny, not beholden to same revenue sharing, gets the profit. So it’s a concern to me that when Cohen takes over he is doing so with a team that is hobbled by a bad sny contract since he is allegedly not getting sny as well.
RE: So I keep beating a drum that no one else seems concerned about Â
But the Mets did not really lose 60 million, in fact they likely had a rather large profit but because of the way their contract with sny is set up that profit goes to sny. Why MLB let them set it up that way I have no idea but the amount of revenue the Mets receive from sny is to me crazy low. Thus sny, not beholden to same revenue sharing, gets the profit. So it’s a concern to me that when Cohen takes over he is doing so with a team that is hobbled by a bad sny contract since he is allegedly not getting sny as well.
Presumably Cohen knows very well what he's getting into re: the team's finances and all reports are he's ready and willing to spend. He is going to be the richest owner in all baseball.
Also the last 2 years cited as "losses" the team hasn't made the playoffs and appeared dead in June - which obviously impacts the bottom line. The year prior (2017) they also didn't make the playoffs but presumably finances may have been better that year because they had made the playoffs the year before (2016) - or else the bad finances of the team may have been quoted as "the past 3 years". So point being it very well may be the case that this team could easily be profitable if the fanbase isn't being beaten down by the Wilponzis.
2017 was probably the last year there was positive ticket sales momentum from the offseason too since they had made the playoffs in '15/'16, and were coming off giving Cespedes a big deal which everyone was excited about at the time.
that pitch framing is used to try to get the home plate umpire to call a ball a strike?
Yes. It's basically the difference between catching a ball in a good receiving position vs. a bad receiving position. It may seem inconsequential but there are tons of emerging stats on the importance of it in the overall mix of catcher defense and Ramos specifically did poorly catching lower balls.
1 question I'd have that I just realized, how does pitch framing get impacted if they go to robot umps? Is pitch framing just a human perception error?
I always understood the psychological aspect of framing - catchers should do it if it helps of course...
But it seems like the league even KNOWING it's a thing doesn't work to remove it. Fine, you see the human error, then maybe create rules & processes to minimize it? Vs measuring how good a catcher is at basically 'faking' the ump out and getting him to just make the wrong call in your favor? Especially when it flies in the face of the most fundamental rules of the game
You'd think an even playing field to determine the better team is the goal, but I don't think I've seen a pro league in my ~40 years that actually legit attempts to do that
Martino says the Mets may shoot lower/cheaper than Porcello. I wonder who is still in charge of the budget...
In the short term, as long as the Wilpons are physically writing the checks it's going to be biz as usual. In fact it may even be worse than usual since they are 1 foot out the door and are probably even more bitter than usual.
The question is when will Cohen be able to start injecting cash flow? Presumably since he's already a partial owner it can happen prior to the full ownership change being approved by MLB since those approvals are generally a formality. But it probably cannot happen until his agreement with the Wilponzis is completed.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
Hi from San Diego. The Mets are looking at back end starters, at least one more reliever and probably not a catcher. Maybe they trade Dom Smith?
Porcello is one of those players who will cost more than he's worth Â
Stroman is a downgrade to Wheeler. They need to counter that by fortifying the backend of the rotation. Matz is Matz, I no longer expect 'the light to go on. It's not happening, he is what he is. A talented but inconsistent headcase on the mound. So we better go out and upgrade over what Vargas brought to the table.
An aside on the Cohen negotiations. He's in a tricky spot. The Wilponsis are slimy weasels that can't be trusted. They're into all kinda shady crap. Cohen isn't going to start 'saving the Mets' until the team is his, signed sealed and delivered. He'd just be strengthening the Wilponsis position which could make the deal more expensive for him or even provide them some out to slip from his grasp. Bottomline don't expect an infusion of new money until he has the rats signatures on the dotted line.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
·
2m
Mets are seemingly high on Max Moroff, the infielder they signed to minor league deal. They're flying him to NY later this month to meet personally with Beltran and the analytics dept. Someone to watch.
that it appears the Wilpons debt was headed toward the limit set by MLB. It almost sounds like this "I wish MLB would force them to sell"... essentially happened.
that it appears the Wilpons debt was headed toward the limit set by MLB. It almost sounds like this "I wish MLB would force them to sell"... essentially happened.
I completely buy that this happened. Or that the debt is so bad there's no alternative. There is no other way the Wilpons would give up control and it probably would have had to happen earlier if they didn't make money over those 2 playoff runs.
Wagner had the league with the view they lost 120 million over the past 2 years and were nearing their debt limit. If they really blame attendance (2.4 million) then really this was inevitable. Fans don't pack the stadium for "okay" rosters and okay rosters don't cosistently win. 2018 the team was terrible, 2019 they didn't make additions fans come out to see (36 year old Cano and a closer). Winning the season before and big additions pique fan interest.
Guy is tough on righties and will be nice in the backend imo.
and not put them in positions to fail.
though the 3-batter rule will be interesting for guys like Brach.
He's also had some impressive seasons with the Orioles only a couple of seasons ago. But even so, as a 6th or 7th option in the pen I think its a solid move. He grew up a Mets fan too which probably explains the huge discount.
I know most of us didn't buy it but in case there were any lingering doubts about how dysfunctional the Wilponzis were/are:
In 2012, with the economy rebounding, the Mets sold 12 minority shares in the team, including one to Cohen, raising $240 million. That enabled them to pay back loans that were overdue.
Their two-thirds ownership of Sportsnet New York, the regional sports network, has helped cover financial shortfalls related to the team, which is now carrying hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, exacerbating tension between Jeff Wilpon and his relatives. In recent months, selling the franchise became the most equitable way to divide up the asset among the Wilpon family members.
The Wilpon Family Chronicles - ( New Window )
I know most of us didn't buy it but in case there were any lingering doubts about how dysfunctional the Wilponzis were/are:
Quote:
People familiar with the team’s finances said the Mets have lost more than $60 million during each of the past two seasons, as the team struggled to attract fans, and they are at the limit of debt allowed by Major League Baseball rules.
In 2012, with the economy rebounding, the Mets sold 12 minority shares in the team, including one to Cohen, raising $240 million. That enabled them to pay back loans that were overdue.
Their two-thirds ownership of Sportsnet New York, the regional sports network, has helped cover financial shortfalls related to the team, which is now carrying hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, exacerbating tension between Jeff Wilpon and his relatives. In recent months, selling the franchise became the most equitable way to divide up the asset among the Wilpon family members.
The Wilpon Family Chronicles - ( New Window )
ZGiants? Pretty sure your refrain was always debt was no longer an issue every season? Please chime in.
I think the epic rants tend to happen more in real time but who knows. obviously the deal isn't final yet but hopefully there can be less hostility around everything to do with this entire franchise going forward now that the wilponzi taint appears to finally be lifting.
Unexciting and there are others I'd probably prefer (Bumgarner, Keuchel) but a fine move. I'd hope Porcello is cheap enough they can also grab a Gio Gonzalez type on a 1 year deal too. Be nice to have some real depth for once.
Quote:
and the madoff mess was behind us? It "was a choice" not to give out mega deals? And recouping salary savings at the deadline wasn't more important than getting good prospects?
I know most of us didn't buy it but in case there were any lingering doubts about how dysfunctional the Wilponzis were/are:
Quote:
People familiar with the team’s finances said the Mets have lost more than $60 million during each of the past two seasons, as the team struggled to attract fans, and they are at the limit of debt allowed by Major League Baseball rules.
In 2012, with the economy rebounding, the Mets sold 12 minority shares in the team, including one to Cohen, raising $240 million. That enabled them to pay back loans that were overdue.
Their two-thirds ownership of Sportsnet New York, the regional sports network, has helped cover financial shortfalls related to the team, which is now carrying hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, exacerbating tension between Jeff Wilpon and his relatives. In recent months, selling the franchise became the most equitable way to divide up the asset among the Wilpon family members.
The Wilpon Family Chronicles - ( New Window )
ZGiants? Pretty sure your refrain was always debt was no longer an issue every season? Please chime in.
Complete and utter bullshit. Never said debt was no longer an issue once. Please show me one post where I ever said that. I said things were improving year by year... and they were as evidenced by our increased payroll every season for years now. Also said Sandy liked to work with a buffer (10-15 AAV) and a few items along those lines. This forum is searchable... If you can find one comment where I said the Mets could spend literally whatever they wanted and that money was limitless once again, Ill mail you a $100.
Actually Im not. Never said payroll was limitless. What a ridiculous straw man. The Mets are, however, a luxury tax team... Something MANY here scoffed at and said we would never be at. I vividly remember being told the Mets wouldnt sign Cespedes because they didn't have the money, etc and then there were crickets here every time they did add payroll over the last few years...
So the Wilpons lost 30 million each of the last two seasons? What the hell does that have to do with anything I ever mentioned?
I'd much prefer Keuchel.
Porcello? Bleh.
MLBTR predicted 4/$72m to the Twins. They'd actually pegged Wheeler to the Phils on a 5 year deal too (undershot the $ a little).
But if we could get him on a reasonable 3-4 year deal... definitely.
Personally, Keuchel would be my target and I'd focus on the pen still. Go after Betances and McHugh. If Keuchel is too much, Id even consider Gio if it meant improving the pen with a couple of really good pieces.
Sign Jason Castro as the cherry on the top and let's go to war.
But there's many ways to skin a cat. We'll see what they do.
Castro would be the perfect lefty compliment IMO.
To give you an idea of how bizarre the 2019 season was for Edwin Diaz, here’s the list of pitchers in Major League history with a season of at least 5.00 ERA, 15.0 K/9, and 50 innings pitched:
Edwin Diaz - 2019
@Jacob_Resnick
·
1m
Appears the #Mets signed Mexican RHP Francisco Ríos in November. He's 24 and played 7 years in the Blue Jays' system, reaching Triple-A, though he spent most of last year in the Mexican League.
This article says his fastball reaches 96-97 mph: https://albat.com/lasmayores/Met
Not saying it’s the case with Ramos, but it would frustrate the hell out of me if we are less effective because Ramos doesn’t prepare accordingly.
I'm not sure though who calls pitches for all teams - some teams it gets called from the dugout, not the catcher.
@MarcCarig
·
2m
Chris Flexen, who was DFA’d by the Mets, is heading to Korea. Per a source, the 25-year old righty will be pitching for the Doosan Bears.
And I'm not talking about crazy errors or game changing plays, just a ball Nimmo can't get to that Lagares does. Or a turn of a DP Cano is a little slow on. By contrast a great defensive team is shortening drives and creating turnovers. A single at bat can change a baseball game so opportunities can't be overstated, especially opportunities with men on base or late in the game. Some will say "Nimmo's defense is fine" or "when has Cano's D ever lost a game" but that misses the point. Nobody has ever given up a point specifically on a 5 yard illegal contact play. It just gives the other team the first down that extends the game winning drive.
Optimists liked to compare our roster to the Nats and by far the biggest difference between the 2 teams was defense. The Nats were 91 runs better by DRS even though they were just 18th best in baseball. The Braves were 130 runs better. We were 26th in MLB.
Bringing it back to Ramos - catcher is obviously 1 of the premium defensive positions so that's going to have an outsized impact on the overall team defense. If the goal is to field as good of a defensive team as possible because it helps you stack the odds in your favor (like TO battle), having a negative player at a critical position is like having a fumbler at RB. Ramos is a big slow guy with limited athleticism and flexibility. We know he has trouble framing certain low pitches. We know some of the pitchers don't love throwing to him for whatever reason. So he's a big net negative. I'd guess he makes enough bad plays that every series he's giving the other team an extra out we aren't getting and that adds up.
He does have a good bat and a reasonable contract though - so to me it's a top need to secure an athletic defensive catcher with enough talent to be a starter a good chunk of the time and play late in games. Someone who can steal back some of the opportunities Ramos is going to give away. That is not Nido. Maldonado is the best defensive option available but ideally there'd be a younger player with a little more upside we could trade for.
Presumably Cohen knows very well what he's getting into re: the team's finances and all reports are he's ready and willing to spend. He is going to be the richest owner in all baseball.
Also the last 2 years cited as "losses" the team hasn't made the playoffs and appeared dead in June - which obviously impacts the bottom line. The year prior (2017) they also didn't make the playoffs but presumably finances may have been better that year because they had made the playoffs the year before (2016) - or else the bad finances of the team may have been quoted as "the past 3 years". So point being it very well may be the case that this team could easily be profitable if the fanbase isn't being beaten down by the Wilponzis.
2017 was probably the last year there was positive ticket sales momentum from the offseason too since they had made the playoffs in '15/'16, and were coming off giving Cespedes a big deal which everyone was excited about at the time.
Yes. It's basically the difference between catching a ball in a good receiving position vs. a bad receiving position. It may seem inconsequential but there are tons of emerging stats on the importance of it in the overall mix of catcher defense and Ramos specifically did poorly catching lower balls.
1 question I'd have that I just realized, how does pitch framing get impacted if they go to robot umps? Is pitch framing just a human perception error?
I always understood the psychological aspect of framing - catchers should do it if it helps of course...
But it seems like the league even KNOWING it's a thing doesn't work to remove it. Fine, you see the human error, then maybe create rules & processes to minimize it? Vs measuring how good a catcher is at basically 'faking' the ump out and getting him to just make the wrong call in your favor? Especially when it flies in the face of the most fundamental rules of the game
You'd think an even playing field to determine the better team is the goal, but I don't think I've seen a pro league in my ~40 years that actually legit attempts to do that
In the short term, as long as the Wilpons are physically writing the checks it's going to be biz as usual. In fact it may even be worse than usual since they are 1 foot out the door and are probably even more bitter than usual.
The question is when will Cohen be able to start injecting cash flow? Presumably since he's already a partial owner it can happen prior to the full ownership change being approved by MLB since those approvals are generally a formality. But it probably cannot happen until his agreement with the Wilponzis is completed.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
Hi from San Diego. The Mets are looking at back end starters, at least one more reliever and probably not a catcher. Maybe they trade Dom Smith?
An aside on the Cohen negotiations. He's in a tricky spot. The Wilponsis are slimy weasels that can't be trusted. They're into all kinda shady crap. Cohen isn't going to start 'saving the Mets' until the team is his, signed sealed and delivered. He'd just be strengthening the Wilponsis position which could make the deal more expensive for him or even provide them some out to slip from his grasp. Bottomline don't expect an infusion of new money until he has the rats signatures on the dotted line.
I don't think this is a bad strategy per se. I would rather a lottery ticket than to overpay on a shitty Porcello contract.
The only way I would like Porcello is a short-term, low $$ contract. And I doubt that happens.
@martinonyc
·
2m
Mets are seemingly high on Max Moroff, the infielder they signed to minor league deal. They're flying him to NY later this month to meet personally with Beltran and the analytics dept. Someone to watch.
@Mets
·
1m
Our 2020 coaching staff is set. #Mets
More Info
👉
https://atmlb.com/36hotri
He received high praise for his work with the Twins relievers in 2019.
I completely buy that this happened. Or that the debt is so bad there's no alternative. There is no other way the Wilpons would give up control and it probably would have had to happen earlier if they didn't make money over those 2 playoff runs.