Give it a listen, at least flip forward to the Casillas interview. It’s worth your time. Basically he gives really good insight as to how the defense came together in 2016 after a shaky 2015. A nice insider slant that should resonate with you and show you what is probably the OPPOSITE of what our guys are (or aren’t) doing to be successful on defense now. Eye-opening.
But also JR has some insider comments about something screwy with ourbownership that he’s noticed in covering NYG since 2013. Good points made.
Not trying to pimp for Jordan but this was really worth a listen, because Casillas still loves this team and keeps close ties, and he’s as frustrated (or more) as we are.
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Yeah, it's unlikely that they'd fire the GM and not the coach. Reese, an underrated GM around these parts, had lost his touch. And the coach he was tied to at the hip to made several mistakes and lost control of the lockerroom.
Fast forward and we still suck and are at rock bottom. We've made changes through every tier of the organization with little result.
But in 2016, McAdoo was excellent. Made great in-game decisions and took the team to the playoffs, something Shurmur hasn't ever sniffed.
It's probably best that he get away from the sport and assess where he went wrong. But what if we gave him another year to do so? What if McAdoo was able to make those leadership changes, perhaps change coordinators and craft the kind of team he was looking for?
Coughlin was in a similar situation (granted, they didn't go 2-14), but he was almost out the door after 2006 and won a Super Bowl the next year. Might have been interesting to see if McAdoo could have learned from his errors and hew closer to what we saw in 2016.
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drafted Webb and Bisnowaty and ran his own shadow group at the senior bowl. No wonder our drafts sucked for 10 yrs.
Chris Mara heads up pro personnel. He's not drafting shit and a shadow group? Delete your handle, root for a new sport and read literally any book. You are too stupid to live.
Lol. Embarassing. He confirmed Mara drafted Webb and Bisnowaty and ran his own shadow group at the senior bowl. Listen to podcast. Maybe delete your account.
-but-
Raanan does say that at the Senior Bowl in '13, there were two contingents of Giants. One led by Reese/Ross, and one led by Chris Mara. While Joey is correct about Mara's title, it does make you wonder why he's there in the first place.
all i can say is holy fucking shit.
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drafted Webb and Bisnowaty and ran his own shadow group at the senior bowl. No wonder our drafts sucked for 10 yrs.
Chris Mara heads up pro personnel. He's not drafting shit and a shadow group? Delete your handle, root for a new sport and read literally any book. You are too stupid to live.
Come on dude. No reason for that. Be cool.
Bullshit...if this is true there would be teams lining up for his services...
Now he certainly wasn't helped by the shit talent at OL and on defense but his offensive system sucked...
-but-
Raanan does say that at the Senior Bowl in '13, there were two contingents of Giants. One led by Reese/Ross, and one led by Chris Mara. While Joey is correct about Mara's title, it does make you wonder why he's there in the first place.
There’s nothing about pro personnel and chris Marris title
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It wasn't clear then, but he was right about Eli, and the locker room was filled with shit. We'd have been better off starting over with him than what we actually did.
Bullshit...if this is true there would be teams lining up for his services...
Now he certainly wasn't helped by the shit talent at OL and on defense but his offensive system sucked...
He's still being paid by the Giants. I wouldn't be working either if I was on a two year paid vacation.
It’s quite possible he’s responsible for both, but no one knows what this guy really does even though he’s been in a senior level position since 2011.
He comments more on horses than he does on football players.
I also see a Tisch listed as a part of the front office, really makes me question if they are hiring the most qualified candidates to work in the FO.
Until this changes, we're fucked.
You're kidding right?
So let's get this straight - the 3rd round doesn't have talent anymore? Now that Gettleman is in house, who really benefits from the third round anyway?
Pretty sure that's why everyone was happy to see Reese go.
Until this changes, we're fucked.
I did think his evidence behind those statements seemed a little light. Could be true but even if it’s not the structure of having an owner as co GM who never faces the media is fucked.
In context of not drafting centers and safeties for ten years.
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I didn't hear anything about Chris Mara drafting anyone specifically.
-but-
Raanan does say that at the Senior Bowl in '13, there were two contingents of Giants. One led by Reese/Ross, and one led by Chris Mara. While Joey is correct about Mara's title, it does make you wonder why he's there in the first place.
There’s nothing about pro personnel and chris Marris title Link - ( New Window )
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he does come right out and say that Mara drafted Webb without McAdoo having seen him, and that he was also responsible for Bisnowaty.
Until this changes, we're fucked.
I did think his evidence behind those statements seemed a little light. Could be true but even if it’s not the structure of having an owner as co GM who never faces the media is fucked.
There's really no evidence he provided, so all of this is contingent upon taking Raanan at his word.
At the end of the day we really have no way of knowing exactly what Mara's impact is. But I think we can all agree - that he's there, an owner, lodged in between the most senior levels of talent acquisition - on a team having serious talent acquisition problems - is not a good sign.
The range goes from he does nothing - at which point, having someone who actually contributed would be preferable, to he's involved day-to-day - which places someone with zero accountability right in a senior decision making role, right in the middle of an area the Giants have struggled with for nearly a decade.
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In comment 14704758 broadbandz said:
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drafted Webb and Bisnowaty and ran his own shadow group at the senior bowl. No wonder our drafts sucked for 10 yrs.
Chris Mara heads up pro personnel. He's not drafting shit and a shadow group? Delete your handle, root for a new sport and read literally any book. You are too stupid to live.
Lol. Embarassing. He confirmed Mara drafted Webb and Bisnowaty and ran his own shadow group at the senior bowl. Listen to podcast. Maybe delete your account.
All of us at our jobs are asked to do things that might be outside the strict definition of our job descriptions. If you were the brother of the boss, that would almost certainly be even more true.
-but-
Raanan does say that at the Senior Bowl in '13, there were two contingents of Giants. One led by Reese/Ross, and one led by Chris Mara. While Joey is correct about Mara's title, it does make you wonder why he's there in the first place.
This is something felt. Two factions. One side against ELI/TC and the other going a new route. This is where things are different in the Giants structure and where Mara messing things up trying to appease both sides.
So we know he had at least some input in the draft process. The debate isn't 'is he involved?', but 'how much is he involved?'
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drafted Webb and Bisnowaty and ran his own shadow group at the senior bowl. No wonder our drafts sucked for 10 yrs.
Chris Mara heads up pro personnel. He's not drafting shit and a shadow group? Delete your handle, root for a new sport and read literally any book. You are too stupid to live.
I wonder if there's another way to express this sentiment.
And sorry, there is zero chance that McAdoo not having a job is due to his "paid vacation". What team is going to hire him being out of the league for 3 years?
https://www.si.com/2015/05/05/nfl-draft-chris-mara-new-york-giants-kentucky-derby-itsaknockout-horse-racing
Earlier in the morning, the Giants’ second-round pick, Landon Collins, arrived at the facility after being drafted on Friday night. The Giants had made a trade with the Titans to get the Alabama safety, moving up seven spots after sending fourth- and seventh-round picks to Tennessee.
Mara had joked earlier in the week that he could perhaps convince the Giants to pull a Mike Ditka and trade all their picks away to clear his schedule on Saturday. As it turns out, the seventh-rounder that New York traded was due to be picked right around the Derby’s post time. “That had nothing to do with me,” Mara insists. “If it had anything to do with me, we’d have traded the fifth-rounder, too.”
Last week, Mara began planning his balancing act. At five minutes a pick on Day 3 of the draft, he calculated that the Giants’ fifth-round selection would be made around 2:15 p.m. He planned to leave as soon as they settled on a name.
2:02 p.m., the Giants pick Mykkele Thompson, a defensive back from Texas, with the No. 144 overall pick
Mara really liked the Thompson selection in the fifth round. “Kind of a need for us,” he says. “Played mostly corner his senior year, but he can play both. We need one of those guys, because we’re a little short back there. I think they’ll try him at free safety first and see where he fits in. Smart, has played a bunch of positions, and he’s got special teams temperament, which is good.”
3:51 p.m., the Giants draft Geremy Davis, wide receiver from Connecticut, with the No. 186 overall pick
Daniel’s phone picks up enough cell service to get news of the sixth-round pick as the plane makes its descent. Hearing the name, Mara knows he didn’t miss much debate in the war room. “He’s a player who we discussed in the fifth round and almost took then,” Mara says. “Big, strong, tough kid. He’s more of a possession guy, but he’s got a special teams temperament also.”
Every team grades players differently, and the Giants usually don’t get past their sixth row of names during a draft. The highlighted names on his sheet are players who have already been drafted; Mara also wrote the grade he individually assigned based on his own scouting next to each player’s name. When he left team headquarters, the Giants still had two picks to make, so he brought this along as a reference sheet. But the real scouting work had already been done in the weeks and months prior.
Mara remains in touch with the war room through his nephew, Tim McDonnell, a pro scout for the Giants. Cell service is spotty, so texting is best.
“Look, if we were in the first or second round today, I probably wouldn’t be here,” Mara says. “But at this point, it’s kind of like when you step up to the betting window and put your picks in. You’ve already put your picks in, and you’re just waiting to see how it falls.”
ðŸ‘
To be fair, this could be some kind of standard practice that we don't know. Maybe it's helpful to have multiple angles of watching the play on the field in person.
But given that we've heard - that this organization often has multiple voices at play in any decision, sometimes clashing - it could be a sign of dysfunction. Mike Lombardi commented in September that if Shurmur went to the FO to get permission to sit Eli, he likely had to get some kind of consensus from Gettleman, John Mara, Chris Mara, Kevin Abrams, and Ernie Accorsi to move forward. This may be total bullshit, but there does appear to be a lot of cooks in the kitchen.
This plays out with BBI asshats as well. Remember jtgiants? He did call a lot free agent signings and team decisions correctly, but was taken completely by surprise with the Jones drafting, saying that Eli was promised that the team would try to compete for him. I bet there are multiple factions in conflict at the FO.
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In comment 14704767 Joey in VA said:
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In comment 14704758 broadbandz said:
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drafted Webb and Bisnowaty and ran his own shadow group at the senior bowl. No wonder our drafts sucked for 10 yrs.
Chris Mara heads up pro personnel. He's not drafting shit and a shadow group? Delete your handle, root for a new sport and read literally any book. You are too stupid to live.
Lol. Embarassing. He confirmed Mara drafted Webb and Bisnowaty and ran his own shadow group at the senior bowl. Listen to podcast. Maybe delete your account.
He can't confirm it, because he doesn't have a clue. Neither of them do and wtf is a shadow group? They arrived in darkness, wore costumes, ninja smoke bombed out and no one saw them? You honestly believe that the son of one of the most famous franchises in the NFL was able to hide his secret squirrel group at a highly public, televised and constantly evaluated week of football? And then ninja drafted players under Jerry Reese's nose? Marc Ross ran the draft, Reese picks the players. I'm sorry that's terribly confusing for you. Use your brain and think and don't believe every bullshit story you hear. Fucking idiot.
I literally just posted what was said in the podcast and you have called me a fucking idiot and told me to kill myself. What did I ever do? I have never talked to you in my life.
This is the most bizarre thing.
I literally just posted what was said in the podcast and you have called me a fucking idiot and told me to kill myself. What did I ever do? I have never talked to you in my life.
This is the most bizarre thing.
Don't worry, it's standard practice.
And to think Dep got banned for a lot less.
If that's what you took from all of this, then the entire thing went over your head.
Webb was a 3rd round flyer. Bisnowaty a 6th round filler. Steward was $6M for a veteran presence. Individually, none of them break the bank.
When you systemically waste resources, you end up at 2-10. Stop looking at moves in a vacuum - it's the sum of the parts that's a problem here.
And, shocking news, I know, there are still fans who enjoy defense and running and low scoring games and eating the clock.
Nobody here is putting any coach (that's been here) - since parcells and bellichick - above parcells and bellichick.
Not coughlin, nor anyone else.
This version of the wco is worse than loosing.
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I literally just posted what was said in the podcast and you have called me a fucking idiot and told me to kill myself. What did I ever do? I have never talked to you in my life.
This is the most bizarre thing.
Don't worry, it's standard practice.
And to think Dep got banned for a lot less.
My only conclusion to this stupid exchange is that Joey in VA (Hospital) has some serious social and psychological problems... this will be confirmed if he does not apologize or repent... not holdin' my breath.
And, shocking news, I know, there are still fans who enjoy defense and running and low scoring games and eating the clock.
Nobody here is putting any coach (that's been here) - since parcells and bellichick - above parcells and bellichick.
Not coughlin, nor anyone else.
This version of the wco is worse than loosing.
It has nothing to do with the WCO. The league favors passing - the rules are all built that way. The linemen coming out of college aren't road graders anymore - they're all from spread offenses.
Trying to build a team focused on running the ball and defense in this era just complicates matters. Use the rules and the talent to their strengths and to your advantage.
But anyone who thinks that Chris Mara and John Mara too aren't deeply involved with the picking the roster both the draft and free agents is in denial.
There is no end in sight to this mess for that reason. I think it's actually going to get worse for a while and it will be a long time until it starts to get better. When John and Chris Mara are forced aside somehow things will improve. Not a minute before.