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How do we rank Daniel Jones season as it might be finished.

simgiant : 12/6/2019 8:27 am
There is a chance he played his last snap this year so 10 games in do you guys have confidence in the pick?

Positives
Love the accuracy
The arm
The behaviour and thougness

Negatives
The fumbles obviously although I think they were some improvements last game seems to have two hands on the ball more.
Interceptions feel like he threw a lot of passes that should have been intercepted and got a little lucky on that front, to be seen.

Unknown
Ability to diagnose the defense and change the play at the line.
We don't know how much freedom he has.
Maybe we will find out more if the running game is better with Eli in.

Overall
B+ for a rookie I'm impressed he has some qualities you can't teach.


I will preface this by saying  
pjcas18 : 12/6/2019 8:33 am : link
I was not an eli fan until 2007.

Just saw too much inconsistency.

So, at this point I'm a "C" on Jones.

And it's not the fumbles (which are a problem - which I believe is correctable) or the interceptions, it's the arm.

He seems accurate enough, and makes decent reads and puts the ball in a good spot most of the time.

my issue is it seems like his passes take too long to get where they're going.

people can flame this as criticism or cite some stat, but when I watch Jones throw outs and deep balls he just doesn't seem to have zip on the ball.

He's not Chad Pennington, but it also seems noticeable to me.

Hope I'm wrong or hope it's just me.
Thatís a good take  
BillT : 12/6/2019 8:36 am : link
It was a good start. He has lots to improve on but heís shown some impressive skills as well. We can hope.
I want to see him play faster  
allstarjim : 12/6/2019 8:41 am : link
Go through progressions, and make the right decision with the ball.

A lot of times I feel I see him lock on to a guy, and throw it into coverage. And a good amount of time, he somehow fits it in there anyway. I like him though. Clear tools.
The jury is out on Jones  
Marty866b : 12/6/2019 8:43 am : link
He has had some really good moments with some really good throws. He does lack pocket awareness as for a player with his athletic ability you don't see avoiding the rush very well. He runs when he sees the opportunity but I haven't seen many plays where he has moved very well in the pocket to escape a sack and make a play.
On the other hand,hypothetically, if Jones would be available in a trade do you believe that the Giants could even get a #1 pick for him? I am not sure that they could get a second round pick for him.
RE: The jury is out on Jones  
Heisenberg : 12/6/2019 8:51 am : link
In comment 14704869 Marty866b said:
Quote:
He has had some really good moments with some really good throws. He does lack pocket awareness as for a player with his athletic ability you don't see avoiding the rush very well. He runs when he sees the opportunity but I haven't seen many plays where he has moved very well in the pocket to escape a sack and make a play.
On the other hand,hypothetically, if Jones would be available in a trade do you believe that the Giants could even get a #1 pick for him? I am not sure that they could get a second round pick for him.


HAHAHA

Please note that the Cards got a second and a fifth for Rosen, but sure, Jones wouldn't get a second round pick.
Looks like Daniel Jones  
Maijay : 12/6/2019 9:05 am : link
has the requisite skills to be a competent starting NFL QB. However time will tell if he's the real deal. The abysmal coaching and the current talent on the offensive line leaves any accurate assessment of Jone's future success cloudy at best.

His lack of field generalship partly due to inexperience further makes any definitive conclusions about future success problematic. I would like to see, when given permission , DJ reading the defense and changing the play at the line of scrimmage . If he's good and successful at that I believe we might have our present and future QB.
RE: RE: The jury is out on Jones  
upnyg : 12/6/2019 9:07 am : link
In comment 14704873 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 14704869 Marty866b said:


Quote:


He has had some really good moments with some really good throws. He does lack pocket awareness as for a player with his athletic ability you don't see avoiding the rush very well. He runs when he sees the opportunity but I haven't seen many plays where he has moved very well in the pocket to escape a sack and make a play.
On the other hand,hypothetically, if Jones would be available in a trade do you believe that the Giants could even get a #1 pick for him? I am not sure that they could get a second round pick for him.



HAHAHA

Please note that the Cards got a second and a fifth for Rosen, but sure, Jones wouldn't get a second round pick.


Trading sounds silly at this point. Teams would line up for a #1 and another pick. He's going to be good . Just needs coaching and to hold onto the ball and more experience.
I'd give him a C+.  
Section331 : 12/6/2019 9:09 am : link
Other posters have accurately pointed out some of the issues DJ has to work on, but most of them are fixable. Most young QB's struggle with the speed of the pro game. DJ is a smart guy and from all accounts works hard. He can figure that stuff out.

The TO's, especially the fumbles, has to be fixed. And it's not like it's a new problem either, he had fumbling issues at Duke. He's not going to be an NFL QB fumbling 20x/yr.
We have way too much losing, it is clouding your judgement  
NYG007 : 12/6/2019 9:13 am : link
Jones has tremendous upside, and has shown some insane flashes of it. While PFF is joke, their "difficult throws" system somewhat mirrors that of the former sports science segment, which I enjoyed and thought was well done.

Jones makes tough tight throws. HE IS ONLY A ROOKIE WHO NEVER PLAYED WITH TALENT! He also misses half his talent on O per game. I give him an 8/10. Rookie wise? He only loses 2 for the fumbles. His only bad decision game was last week, he made some terrible, terrible reads. Stared down WR's, into INT's, etc.

Our next HC will do very well with this pick, I think the whole FO and coaching staff is gone, but they got this pick absolutely right.
Heís our QB for the next 15 years ...  
Spider56 : 12/6/2019 9:16 am : link
Now build a frkn offense around him and get some competent coaches.
A+  
x meadowlander : 12/6/2019 9:21 am : link
Anyone with the balls to play behind that shitty O-line starts at a solid B - despite missing Barkley and having every starting receiver except Slayton injured at points, the kid looked good for most of the season, seemed to get flustered in the last one, but who can blame him.

Also - I give ZERO shits about the fumbles. I'm 100% certain that will be addressed.
Fix the o-line and you'll fix the fumble....  
Britt in VA : 12/6/2019 9:23 am : link
or at least cut them by 3/4.

He holds onto the ball to long, but that's correctable.

He doesn't have a rocket arm, but his ball placement and timing is excellent. He's made some holy sh-t! throws, too.

He is not a run first guy, but can definitely move the chains with his legs in a big spot.

I've seen enough to feel pretty confident that he'll be a solid starter for us under our new head coach.
I'd give him a solid B  
Jay on the Island : 12/6/2019 9:28 am : link
He's exceeded my expectations. What he's done with this coaching, offensive line, and injuries is extremely impressive.

Some were claiming that the Giants had the worst wide receivers in the NFL coming into the season. Now that's clearly not true but it's not like they have Beckham out there anymore either.

If the Giants fix the offensive line I expect to see Jones take a huge step forward.
preseason ... A+  
since1925 : 12/6/2019 9:31 am : link
regular season ... C-
Look anyone who has read my posts  
Essex : 12/6/2019 9:34 am : link
Knows that I am a huge DJ fan. I think he definitely has the skill set to be a great player and not be Jameis Winston. With that said, I do wonder how much of the offensive line troubles have to do with Jonesís inability to get rid of the ball quickly. Game processing is a huge deal and most qbs see their biggest improvement in year 1 to year 2 because the game slows down for them. I was reading some quotes form Schwartz and Pederson about playing Eli instead of Jones and the first thing that came out of both their mouths was how much more quickly the ball comes out from Eli. Now, I know there are plenty of times where our blocking just gets eaten up and a sack happens through no fault of Jones, but I would be interested in seeing if our line plays somewhat better this game because Eli still processes the field better than Jones, even if his skills have somewhat diminished.
RE: I will preface this by saying  
BillKo : 12/6/2019 9:39 am : link
In comment 14704860 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I was not an eli fan until 2007.

Just saw too much inconsistency.

So, at this point I'm a "C" on Jones.

And it's not the fumbles (which are a problem - which I believe is correctable) or the interceptions, it's the arm.

He seems accurate enough, and makes decent reads and puts the ball in a good spot most of the time.

my issue is it seems like his passes take too long to get where they're going.

people can flame this as criticism or cite some stat, but when I watch Jones throw outs and deep balls he just doesn't seem to have zip on the ball.

He's not Chad Pennington, but it also seems noticeable to me.

Hope I'm wrong or hope it's just me.


That's funny, because I called him a more athletic Chad Pennington a few weeks ago.

Pennington was actually a very good QB, injuries just caught up with. He was very accurate and had great anticipation.

I'm expect DJ's arm strength to get a little better too in the offseason.
I don't know how you give any other grade...  
BamaBlue : 12/6/2019 9:39 am : link
than Incomplete.

There were too many problems with the offense and the play calling to judge a first year player.

If you're judging him solely on 'dealing with adversity' he gets an A-.

Jones did a great job under the circumstances; taking over in week #3, having limited access to the starting RB, WR and TE, the terrible OL and maybe most important, the terrible play calling he had to endure. We know we've got something, but it's not clear what.
oh and as far as a grade...  
BillKo : 12/6/2019 9:42 am : link
Solid B.

Excellent accuracy, tough, plays the part of QB. Wants to be here.

The pocket awareness - and fumbles - will get better especially as the line gets better.

He's playing with literally crap right now in what looks like a predictable offense, I mean, even his best piece in SB is struggling and looks like an average back.

Guy's going it alone............
I keep seeing  
Giant Fan Dan : 12/6/2019 9:46 am : link
it mentioned that Jones might not have permission to change the play at the line or change OL assignments etc... Has it been talked about by the coaches or DJ or anyone that that's the case? I would expect this far into the season, and since he's supposed to be such an intelligent QB, that the whole playbook and all the audibles are available to him at this point. I'm not saying it's not true, but I do think it'd be concerning if he wasn't trusted to do his full job after 5 or 6 weeks running the show...
RE: RE: I will preface this by saying  
pjcas18 : 12/6/2019 9:47 am : link
In comment 14704930 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 14704860 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


I was not an eli fan until 2007.

Just saw too much inconsistency.

So, at this point I'm a "C" on Jones.

And it's not the fumbles (which are a problem - which I believe is correctable) or the interceptions, it's the arm.

He seems accurate enough, and makes decent reads and puts the ball in a good spot most of the time.

my issue is it seems like his passes take too long to get where they're going.

people can flame this as criticism or cite some stat, but when I watch Jones throw outs and deep balls he just doesn't seem to have zip on the ball.

He's not Chad Pennington, but it also seems noticeable to me.

Hope I'm wrong or hope it's just me.



That's funny, because I called him a more athletic Chad Pennington a few weeks ago.

Pennington was actually a very good QB, injuries just caught up with. He was very accurate and had great anticipation.

I'm expect DJ's arm strength to get a little better too in the offseason.


Chad Pennington was a decent QB, problem was he was limited by weak arm strength before the injuries. I don't think Jones arm strength is limiting like Pennington's. But I do notice he doesn't have the strongest arm - especially on the throws i mentioned.
The OP's assessment is fair. My eyeball test for what it's worth  
Blue21 : 12/6/2019 9:51 am : link
(not much probably) is I think the Giants have their future QB. I've heard Tannehill comparisons. Who is having a great year possibly a great fit for that team. And I've heard Ryan comparisons who's team is absolutely sucking. My feeling is DJ is playing on possibly the worse team in the NFL and still playing well and looking poised. At the least he's a Tannehill at best we still don't know hoping what Barkley said is accurate. Personanly I think we're all set though for the future. Fix this Oline and fix this defense and I think he can take this team far. In other words there are far bigger problems than him. At the beginning of the season future QB was my biggest worry. Not anymore.
Some of these responses...  
Giants in 07 : 12/6/2019 9:53 am : link
Yikes..

Anyway, I've seen what I've needed to seen from him. He's our next franchise QB and I expect to have success with him behind center.

Despite the abysmal coaching staff, horrible offensive line, and lack of skill players this season, he was still impressive.
RE: I don't know how you give any other grade...  
Del Shofner : 12/6/2019 9:54 am : link
In comment 14704931 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
than Incomplete.

There were too many problems with the offense and the play calling to judge a first year player.

If you're judging him solely on 'dealing with adversity' he gets an A-.

Jones did a great job under the circumstances; taking over in week #3, having limited access to the starting RB, WR and TE, the terrible OL and maybe most important, the terrible play calling he had to endure. We know we've got something, but it's not clear what.


I agree with this.
Promising, but far from conclusive.  
Mad Mike : 12/6/2019 9:54 am : link
I think we saw enough to reasonably think he'll be a very good qb. But not nearly enough to dismiss the possibility that he'll never really develop into a long-term starter. Cautious optimism is where I am.
RE: RE: I don't know how you give any other grade...  
Johnny5 : 12/6/2019 9:56 am : link
In comment 14704955 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
In comment 14704931 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


than Incomplete.

There were too many problems with the offense and the play calling to judge a first year player.

If you're judging him solely on 'dealing with adversity' he gets an A-.

Jones did a great job under the circumstances; taking over in week #3, having limited access to the starting RB, WR and TE, the terrible OL and maybe most important, the terrible play calling he had to endure. We know we've got something, but it's not clear what.



I agree with this.

I also agree. Really my main concern with him is his pocket presence. But INC is also my opinion.
RE: The OP's assessment is fair. My eyeball test for what it's worth  
BillKo : 12/6/2019 10:01 am : link
In comment 14704947 Blue21 said:
Quote:
(not much probably) is I think the Giants have their future QB. I've heard Tannehill comparisons. Who is having a great year possibly a great fit for that team. And I've heard Ryan comparisons who's team is absolutely sucking. My feeling is DJ is playing on possibly the worse team in the NFL and still playing well and looking poised. At the least he's a Tannehill at best we still don't know hoping what Barkley said is accurate. Personanly I think we're all set though for the future. Fix this Oline and fix this defense and I think he can take this team far. In other words there are far bigger problems than him. At the beginning of the season future QB was my biggest worry. Not anymore.


Tannehill has a bigger arm I think, and probably runs better (at least he did pre knee injury). I've always been big on Tannehill, I think he's suffered from being in bad situations and really, that's got a ton to do with what success you have sometimes. Maybe in TN with good coaching - which I think they have - will really bring out his best.

I think people underestimate how much better DJ will be - all around - after a year of film study, and just understanding what the heck is going on out there. He's a rookie. Experience is a huge deal.
B- or C+  
Josh in the City : 12/6/2019 10:08 am : link
He throws a nice deep ball, pretty good athleticism, and seems to have an ability to anticipate routes and throw the ball into tight spaces based on where the receiver SHOULD be. I do believe he will improve the turnovers but will likely always struggle with it somewhat. However, his pocket awareness is abysmal and his arm strength is nothing more than average (ie: not talking about his ability to throw the ball far, more about the zip he has on his typical throws).

If you watch a player like Rodgers or Mahomes, they have significant velocity on their throws which makes it tougher for defensive players to get into position in time to make a play. Jones hasn't displayed have that kind of arm talent.

I like him as a player but his ceiling is somewhat limited based on his physical tools. If we build a good team around him I think he can be a winner but I don't see him every being an elite QB in the league.

That's my two cents, take it for what it's worth.
Projecting Out  
lax counsel : 12/6/2019 10:09 am : link
I think he's probably not likely to be a top 5 qb year in and year out - although maybe he has the occasional huge year and gets included in that category. Where I think he fits is somewhere in the 5-12 range most years, assuming his progression continues next year. I see him as a Matt Ryan with mobility more than anything right now.

He has an accurate arm, though not rocket- strong enough, toughness and smarts. The ball will come out quicker as he gets more experience.

If he is a guy who can consistently sit in the 8-10 range in this league you can with a lot of games with that and likely a championship or two.
C-  
RELICDOA : 12/6/2019 10:17 am : link
Heís a rookie learner
DJ  
Gruber : 12/6/2019 10:19 am : link
The fumbles are hurting him. If he can cut out the fumbling, then I see no reason why in one or two seasons, DJ couldn't be the best quarterback in tne NL East.
He has great character. He has good enough passing skills.
Mostly positive  
JonC : 12/6/2019 10:23 am : link
He has to clean up the pocket awareness and ball security, and he needs to speed up reading through his progressions to get the ball out quicker so he hits the open windows, rather than give DBs a slight edge on anticipating the pass.
Solid B.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/6/2019 10:23 am : link
I think he's going to be a good pro. He had nothing to work with.
He's been better than most recent rookie QB's so I feel real good.  
Eric on Li : 12/6/2019 10:24 am : link
First off I disagree that there's been any critical physical limitation. He's thrown 20 yard outs across the field and countless deep balls that Pennington simply never had the arm to complete. We are not watching Ryan Finley or Kyle Lauletta. He may not be Josh Allen either, but he has shown the arm to make every throw and plus athleticism - the tools are there.

It's already been written about how favorably his stat line compares to historical first round QB's but those are somewhat apples to oranges even if it's just because of it being a different era, so the big to me is that he stacks up well relative to peers, which will hopefully continue looking good going forward:

Josh Allen had a 50 something percent comp percentage last year and more INTs than TDs. This year he's made big improvements but even with that they currently have similar stat lines.

Darnold had some moments but has been plagued by the same inconsistency he showed at USC, continuing to be more INT prone than Jones even in his 2nd year.

Rosen looks like he's a bust. Haskins looks like Rosen did last year, but it's still really early.

Even Lamar Jackson's 7 starts last year probably had more negatives if we are being honest - 12 fumbles, just 6 tds passing, under 60%. 4 turnovers and under 50% completions in his 1 playoff game. Obviously there were both flashes of the amazing MVP season we are seeing this year and growing pains - the hallmarks of just about every rookie QB including the great ones.

Mayfield is obviously the outlier in how good he looked last year but then taking big steps back this year so hard to evaluate right now. Gun to my head I'd probably still take Baker over Jones, though he seems like a really bad personality fit for NY so maybe not.

The really obvious key going forward is that we need to hope the coaching staff and Jones himself can just keep progressing because improving even incrementally in certain areas can have a big impact. Make better decisions, be more efficient, cut down mistakes, or in other words all the things you expect to need a rookie QB to improve upon. He's the least of my concerns going forward - finding the right coaches and continuing to improve the team around him are far bigger challenges.
I'll say this, he needs to be graded on a different level  
barens : 12/6/2019 10:25 am : link
than other rookies, because I don't think I've ever seen a team throw out their rookie QB, and have that team become a pass first team. He's had a ton of responsibilities and I think he's mostly exceeded expectations. He hasn't had a game with under 31 pass attempts, which is pretty fucking crazy for a rookie.
RE: C-  
Toth029 : 12/6/2019 10:50 am : link
In comment 14705001 RELICDOA said:
Quote:
Heís a rookie learner


Good grief.

He was the offenses best player in the time it played.
Need to define the scale on which ranking him  
MM_in_NYC : 12/6/2019 10:56 am : link
As (1) a rookie QB, (2) on what we see happening in the future, or (3) as an overall NFL QB?

For a rookie QB i give him an A-. He did much better this year than I thought he would do this year. As everyone mentions and knows, besides the fumbles, he's been prettier darn impressive after being thrown into action so early.

In terms of future prognostication, this is a bit tricky, and may itself need to be defined more, but I give a solid A. He will be 10+ year starter in the league barring injuries or other freak circumstances. Now that's the expectation you want for a #6 pick, so like I said, maybe this itself needs to be defined more, but I say when you pick a QB and you get your 10 year starter that's an A.

In terms of what how he performed this year, relative to how other NFL starting QBs would have performed with THIS team, I give him a C-. Most NFL starters would have performed better than him. Keep in mind this is ruthless grading. I'm simply saying at least 16 other NFL QBs would have done better than him - meaning a C is average. That does also mean he performed better than how at least 1/3 of the rest of the league's starters would have done with this team. That's pretty good for a rookie.

Suffice to say I'm pleased. But he really needs to develop his strategy as a runner better. Which I think he will. Bc if he doesn't then we're gonna see him in and out of the lineup with injuries and that's gonna hurt the team.
oh what the hell  
HomerJones45 : 12/6/2019 11:26 am : link
let's step onto the 3rd rail.

In terms of play: C. In terms of draft value: F.

Once DC's had some film on him after his first three appearances or so, he has completed 59% of his passes for 1796 yards, 6 ypa, 15 td and 9 picks. Middling numbers. Minshew, who was a 6th round pick, has done as well if not better. DC's don't seem convinced; they have gone all-out to stop Barkley and seem to care less about Jones.

All of the weaknesses mentioned in his draft profile: ball handling leading to to's, the tell-tale patting of the ball before throwing, lack of pocket awareness, iffy long pass ability, waiting too long to cut it loose, trying to throw into tight windows (and he has gotten away with some of that- hard to think it will continue without more to), throwing it up when pressured have all continued. I think he started off hot, got all of you thinking stud and has regressed to what he really is.

Hard to think that he is going to improve all that much more. This guy was a 4 year starter under a professional qb coach in a major conference. He is what many thought he would be- high floor, low ceiling. Some great games, some awful games, a lot of meh. Worth the 6th pick in the whole draft? At the moment, you have to say no, the pundits were right- safe pick later in the first round maybe, maybe second round.
RE: RE: C-  
since1925 : 12/6/2019 11:33 am : link
In comment 14705045 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 14705001 RELICDOA said: Quote: Heís a rookie learner. Good grief.

He was the offenses best player in the time it played.


C -. That's his grade for the games that counted. He produced two wins, one where the defense gave up 3 points. He basically played one half of winning football, the second half against the Bucs. That was great but it was a blip.

His proclivity for turnovers can NOT be ignored. It was very bad. He moves tough his progression slowly. He hasn't proven he can do it faster. His short area passing was very good. Further down the field, not so much. It's hard to do but you have to ignore preseason where he shined. The Giants were undefeated in preseason. It means nothing.

He can be a very good QB. Players often are much improved in season two (see Landon Collins). I root for every player in blue to succeed. I want him to be great. But this thread is not a projection, it's about a QB who was very average this year.
I rank it as good  
moespree : 12/6/2019 11:43 am : link
He has some issues, BUT, they are issues that can be corrected and usually are. Historically, Warren Moon and more recently Lamar Jackson and Carson Wentz had serious fumbling issues as rookies. All 3 corrected and quickly. It is not the worst problem to have quite frankly because it can be corrected.

As for not getting the ball out quick enough...it's an issue but it's also a sign of the player's courage and desire to try to make something happen. It's certainly not bad to have a QB with courage. However, that too, I feel will correct with experience. He's not the first rookie QB in history to need experience to adjust to the pocket collapsing on him and when to get rid of the ball. This is a problem that hurt Aikman in year 1 and he corrected.

So I would say a good year overall. Better than most people expected if we're to be honest about it.
RE: I rank it as good  
Josh in the City : 12/6/2019 11:45 am : link
In comment 14705126 moespree said:
Quote:
He has some issues, BUT, they are issues that can be corrected and usually are. Historically, Warren Moon and more recently Lamar Jackson and Carson Wentz had serious fumbling issues as rookies. All 3 corrected and quickly. It is not the worst problem to have quite frankly because it can be corrected.

As for not getting the ball out quick enough...it's an issue but it's also a sign of the player's courage and desire to try to make something happen. It's certainly not bad to have a QB with courage. However, that too, I feel will correct with experience. He's not the first rookie QB in history to need experience to adjust to the pocket collapsing on him and when to get rid of the ball. This is a problem that hurt Aikman in year 1 and he corrected.

So I would say a good year overall. Better than most people expected if we're to be honest about it.

The issues go much further than just the fumbles. That's just the most glaring one that everyone easily notices.
RE: oh what the hell  
barens : 12/6/2019 11:46 am : link
In comment 14705089 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
let's step onto the 3rd rail.

In terms of play: C. In terms of draft value: F.

Once DC's had some film on him after his first three appearances or so, he has completed 59% of his passes for 1796 yards, 6 ypa, 15 td and 9 picks. Middling numbers. Minshew, who was a 6th round pick, has done as well if not better. DC's don't seem convinced; they have gone all-out to stop Barkley and seem to care less about Jones.

All of the weaknesses mentioned in his draft profile: ball handling leading to to's, the tell-tale patting of the ball before throwing, lack of pocket awareness, iffy long pass ability, waiting too long to cut it loose, trying to throw into tight windows (and he has gotten away with some of that- hard to think it will continue without more to), throwing it up when pressured have all continued. I think he started off hot, got all of you thinking stud and has regressed to what he really is.

Hard to think that he is going to improve all that much more. This guy was a 4 year starter under a professional qb coach in a major conference. He is what many thought he would be- high floor, low ceiling. Some great games, some awful games, a lot of meh. Worth the 6th pick in the whole draft? At the moment, you have to say no, the pundits were right- safe pick later in the first round maybe, maybe second round.


He was actually a three year starter at Duke, and I'm not sure how that line of thinking leads to you thinking he won't improve. Peyton and Eli both improved by leaps and bounds after their rookie seasons, and they were older than Jones at that point.

Not to mention Minshew has had a running game and a respectable defense to help his cause.
I'm not convinced  
Go Terps : 12/6/2019 11:47 am : link
He throws the ball beautifully, and he's clearly a tough kid.

The pocket awareness and turnovers are a huge problem, though. You might be able to live with it if he were hugely productive, but he hasn't been at 6.4 YPA and the offense not even averaging 20 PPG. I was hoping to see him run the ball more too.

A lot of that is on the incompetent coaching staff and poor team around him, but he's got a lot of improvement to make if he's going to be the guy a couple years and a new coach from now.

Actually, I should say "deserve to be the guy". I suspect he's on scholarship based on his draft position and the Giants' desire to recreate Eli.
Impossible evaluation  
mittenedman : 12/6/2019 11:55 am : link
due to the fact he's playing in such a bad offense without any of his skill players. (Barkley, Shepard, Tate & Engram have been in and out of the lineup/compromised by injuries.)

Prime Tom Brady would look bad in this offense.

That said - he is trending the wrong way which is generally a bad sign. Contrast with Eli, who clicked vs. the Steelers and you could see very clearly he was going to be a good quarterback.
Echo those citing pocket awareness  
Overseer : 12/6/2019 11:58 am : link
it's bad. Will it get better? Probably. But that's not the relevant point.

The relevant point is that the Giants are a catastrophe. The roster is filled with poor players, a handful of a good ones (I really like a healthy Shepard), and not a single elite one.

ZERO players on the roster from 2014, 2015, 2016 (save SS, now experiencing the Giants WR curse), blah from 2017, blah from 2018 after SB (and even him right now...)

Even if the Giant could turn this dumpster fire around - and there is zero indication they're capable of that - how many years does it take? What happens to Jones in that time period?

There is no warranted optimism present about the NYG.
RE: B- or C+  
bw in dc : 12/6/2019 12:05 pm : link
In comment 14704987 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
He throws a nice deep ball, pretty good athleticism, and seems to have an ability to anticipate routes and throw the ball into tight spaces based on where the receiver SHOULD be. I do believe he will improve the turnovers but will likely always struggle with it somewhat. However, his pocket awareness is abysmal and his arm strength is nothing more than average (ie: not talking about his ability to throw the ball far, more about the zip he has on his typical throws).

If you watch a player like Rodgers or Mahomes, they have significant velocity on their throws which makes it tougher for defensive players to get into position in time to make a play. Jones hasn't displayed have that kind of arm talent.

I like him as a player but his ceiling is somewhat limited based on his physical tools. If we build a good team around him I think he can be a winner but I don't see him every being an elite QB in the league.

That's my two cents, take it for what it's worth.


This is a pretty good write-up.

Jones has made some very nice throws on the run to his left. The athleticism he exhibited at Duke seems to have conveyed. Why we haven't exploited that and his mobility more is beyond me...

Perhaps this staff is trying to get him to focus on being more of a pocket passer?? I don't know, but it's very strange.

Jones is a very big mixed bag. He looks like a more athletic Eli. And the Eli part is the propensity to turn the ball over at an alarming rate. It's very bad. While there is this theme that it can be fixed with coaching, keep in mind it never got coached out of Eli's game. Eli's was a turnover machine. It's probably why his record only hovers around .500.

So this is a huge red flag with Jones. If there are no material signs of improvement by next year, we need to move on.
for a rookie  
fkap : 12/6/2019 12:05 pm : link
with a shitty OL, no running game, a meh receiving group...
he did pretty dang good.

you could see him struggling more as the season progressed, with the OL, running game, receivers regressed/injured. It's a good time to rest him and get reset before shell shock sets in.

He looks to be a QB with promise. Someone who can be a QB on a successful team. Hopefully, the OL and receiving group can be built up. With a toolkit upgrade, the offense will not be the side that loses games. That's what you should realistically expect from any new QB.
Solid B grade  
90.Cal : 12/6/2019 12:11 pm : link
Give him a LT, a RT, a center and a true #1 WR... and watch DJ lead us toward a Lombardi trophy.
When he was picked  
Daniel in MI : 12/6/2019 12:11 pm : link
what we heard from detractors was about his arm, his decision making, etc. made you wonder if he was an NFL QB at all.

I think he passed that test, with flying colors. I like his accuracy most of the time. I like how he stands in under pressure. I like his athleticism. His arm seems sufficient.

He certainly looked better than Eli did as a rookie most of the time, and Eli had more talent and better coaching.

Consider the following when grading DJ:

- The OL has been wretched, he's almost always under pressure and it often comes up the middle

- We don't have a murderer's row of offensive home run hitters. And for what we do have, he has not EVER had all the "weapons" on the field together. Tate missed his DJ's first 2 games. SB was hurt his first game. Then Shep was out. The EE was out. He's never had all his weapons.

- He's been carrying the load as our run game has been virtually nil. We lose first down so often he's in 2nd and 3rd and long too often.

- Play calling has not exactly seemed creative to maximize what talent we do have.

- He has often had to play from behind because our D gave up 2 TDs in the first 2 drives. When we get leads we generally give them right back. So he's had to press, especially in final minutes with D's having their ears pinned back vs our stellar OL.

- He's been let down by the kicking game missing very makable FGs that would have helped the points he's put on the board, changed field position, etc.

Given all that, I think he's been pretty solid. He's kept his head, kept fighting, not blamed or pointed fingers, Eli seems to say his behind the scenes work ethic is good. So, I'd say early returns are good, with a chance to be very good with some improvement, experience, and help around him.

The main knock on him is turnovers. Some of this is bad luck (fumbles not recovered). Some bad OL play (hit as he throws). Some is ball security (not holding on well). Some is rookie mistakes (misreads, bad throws, holding the ball too long, not giving up on plays that are dead). Whatever it is, he's been a turnover machine and it HAS to improve. I think it will, but until it does turnovers are issue #1 and 1A. Turnovers correlate too highly with losing to be tolerable.

Second is just normal rookie development, holding the ball, trying to fit into too tight a window, reading more complex Ds, learning when to give up on a play, etc. This stuff I have little doubt will improve with experience and the game slowing down for him. And, frankly, some of it is just being a competitive player. I'd hate to have a QB that quickly gives up on plays or won't try to fit in a ball. So, some mistakes of aggression I'll live with. No point playing it safe when we're in come from behind mode all the time.
Daniel Jones  
Essex : 12/6/2019 12:15 pm : link
would be on pace to have 30 Tds and around 15-16 interceptions if he played a full schedule. He is a rookie, who has played in terrible conditions on more than one occasion this season. Not only cold, not only windy, but torrential rain against the Cardinals, a decent amount of snow versus the Packers and is on pace for that kinda season. I think we are being a bit too critical about even thinking of "moving on" as bw in dc wrote.
I dont have the stats in front of me  
Essex : 12/6/2019 12:16 pm : link
but how many rookies pass for 30 and 15 over a season. I know Dak had a good rookie season, but he also had a 12-4 team. Jones is doing this with a terrible roster. I mean, come on people.
I Could See Him  
lax counsel : 12/6/2019 12:20 pm : link
Taking a big Carson Wentz style step forward in year two or a Baker Mayfield regression. I think it will be dependent on coach and talent improvement as much as his own personal growth.
re: ''moving on''  
Overseer : 12/6/2019 12:20 pm : link
The Giants are a bottom 3 worst team in the NFL. They will be awful again in 2020 when the best QB since Luck (T Lawrence) will enter the draft. Added benefit of +2 years of a rookie contract.

So there may be an interesting dilemma impending.

RE: re: ''moving on''  
bw in dc : 12/6/2019 12:32 pm : link
In comment 14705194 Overseer said:
Quote:
The Giants are a bottom 3 worst team in the NFL. They will be awful again in 2020 when the best QB since Luck (T Lawrence) will enter the draft. Added benefit of +2 years of a rookie contract.

So there may be an interesting dilemma impending.


That's where I'm at - if 2020 is abysmal and we have a chance at Lawrence, or maybe even Fields, with another high pick, I think that makes Jones very expendable...
RE: Fix the o-line and you'll fix the fumble....  
Thegratefulhead : 12/6/2019 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14704914 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
or at least cut them by 3/4.

He holds onto the ball to long, but that's correctable.

He doesn't have a rocket arm, but his ball placement and timing is excellent. He's made some holy sh-t! throws, too.

He is not a run first guy, but can definitely move the chains with his legs in a big spot.

I've seen enough to feel pretty confident that he'll be a solid starter for us under our new head coach.
Agree
Terps...  
BillKo : 12/6/2019 1:30 pm : link
..I don't you can call the pocket awareness and turnovers/fumbles a huge issue at this point in regards to his future success. It's his first year.

Phil Simms - as a veteran QB - turned the ball over at a record pace in 1985 via fumbles. He was coughing it up anytime he was touched in the pocket. Center exchanges were an adventure. It turned out to be an outlier.

As we get into next year, and it keeps happening (assuming the OL is a tad better!), then it's an issue.
Incomplete  
LG in NYC : 12/6/2019 1:49 pm : link
Lots to like, lots to hope get better.

Hard to feel like we know anything for sure given his rookie status and the fact that the team and the coaching staff suck beyond comprehension.

If you told me we were going to get a good coach next year and start to build a decent team, then I am happy to have DJ as my starter and see him grow into the position over the next couple of years.

I would like to see him use his feet more (designed runs, roll outs), build on his excellent accuracy and obviously, cut down on the TOs (by at least half).
I suspect at his best he will be a 30-35 TD/ 15 INT guy (maybe with another 2-4 running TD's)... I can accept that if we are playing solid D and have a strong running game to boot.
I Can't Believe Some of the Criticism Here  
Giants38 : 12/6/2019 1:55 pm : link
The guy is a rookie who thrown 18 TDs and 11 INTs. 6 of those INTs occurred in two games (against the Patriots and Packers), in bad conditions and with good secondaries. Against the Packers, the last two picks were at least somewhat a result of the high ankle sprain he played through. At one point he went 110 consecutive passes without an INT. He threw at least one TD in each of his starts, which either tied or broke the rookie record.

Oh, and all of this was done when he was missing at least one of Barkley, Engram, Shepard, or Tate. And a horrible OL. And a coach we all believe should be (and likely will be) fired. Coaching matters, and if we get a good coach or OC in here, DJ will likely improve by leaps and bounds.

Yes, he has fumbled way too often, but people who have examined this have said that 5 of his 10 lost fumbles were not his fault. Does he need to get through progressions faster? Yes. But he is a rookie; it's absurd to expect him to have played much better given the adversity he's faced. I'm not really sure what people expected? 20 TDs and 2 INTs? People here want perfection, which is impossible for anyone, let alone a rookie.
RE: Incomplete  
Essex : 12/6/2019 1:56 pm : link
In comment 14705317 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
Lots to like, lots to hope get better.

Hard to feel like we know anything for sure given his rookie status and the fact that the team and the coaching staff suck beyond comprehension.

If you told me we were going to get a good coach next year and start to build a decent team, then I am happy to have DJ as my starter and see him grow into the position over the next couple of years.

I would like to see him use his feet more (designed runs, roll outs), build on his excellent accuracy and obviously, cut down on the TOs (by at least half).
I suspect at his best he will be a 30-35 TD/ 15 INT guy (maybe with another 2-4 running TD's)... I can accept that if we are playing solid D and have a strong running game to boot.

He is 30 and 15 this year if you expand his stats to 16 games. So, are you saying this is the best we are ever going to get from him? Possible, but I severely doubt it.
If NYG somehow changes the GM  
JonC : 12/6/2019 2:07 pm : link
and the new GM goes QB in 2020 or 2021, that's exactly the scenario I warn against when you take a stab at a QB high in the draft against what appeared to be a consensus of his value. Granted, the consensus can be wrong and I'm inline with the consensus on DJ. I'll be damned angry if they pick another QB high in the next few drafts.
A solid B+ for me  
gmen9892 : 12/6/2019 2:25 pm : link
I have seen a lot of things I like. There are several things he can work on, but the things he does well are traits that very good QBs had.

Pros:
Touch
Anticipation
Mobility
Smarts
Toughness

Cons:
Pocket Awareness & Clock too slow
Sometimes tries to do too much
Careless with the football
Medium arm-strength

To me, the pros greatly outweigh the cons. Like has been said previously, Jones is playing on a 2-10 team with a below average offensive line, 2-3 weapons missing each game, and his best weapon, Barkley has been hobbled and not his normal self since coming back in Week 7. All while playing with a horrific defense.

Sign me up for this kid to take us into the future.
Essex  
LG in NYC : 12/6/2019 2:27 pm : link
From a TD standpoint, I doubt he goes much beyond what I stated... which at the top end is almost 40 TD's responsible for.

Re: INT's, he is already at 11 in 10 games plus the multiple fumbles... maybe I should say 15-18 total TO's over a 16 game season.

that would be improvement over what we've seen currently. But I do think he will always be prone to TO's to some extent.
(I am always amazed when I see some other QB's who throw 2-5 INTs in a season... we haven't experienced that in a long time as Giants fans)
wrong again bw  
BigBlueCane : 12/6/2019 3:08 pm : link
Eli's tendency to take chances are why he was a nemesis for Brady and Little Bill. Its the same reason Farve was able to carve up that record setting Ravens Defense the year after they won the SB and destroyed Fassel.

If Jones has that gunslinger attitude, keeping it intact w/o letting become a negative is the challenge.
RE: I keep seeing  
Diver_Down : 12/6/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14704938 Giant Fan Dan said:
Quote:
it mentioned that Jones might not have permission to change the play at the line or change OL assignments etc... Has it been talked about by the coaches or DJ or anyone that that's the case? I would expect this far into the season, and since he's supposed to be such an intelligent QB, that the whole playbook and all the audibles are available to him at this point. I'm not saying it's not true, but I do think it'd be concerning if he wasn't trusted to do his full job after 5 or 6 weeks running the show...


It was discussed a week ago on the Weds Media Tweets thread. But The Giants Huddle podcast had DJ on that week, and he himself said he has the ability to check out of a play. Whether he has carte blanche is a different question.
Honest  
Carl in CT : 12/6/2019 3:20 pm : link
Iíd take him over Murray and Haskins. Iíd agree with the B- against rest of QBs in league as far as rookies A- with a big future. Happy.
Manningís as rookies  
Carl in CT : 12/6/2019 3:23 pm : link
Peyton had 28 ints and Eli had 9 in 6 1/2 games. Jury still out.
I think heís a very solid QB for us through his rookie deal  
Sean : 12/6/2019 9:40 pm : link
Has he warranted a second contract? Iím not convinced.
A  
Rafflee : 12/7/2019 6:28 am : link
Jones has pretty much answered every Physical Question with really solid marks.

He's talking and walking like a great student. The Great Part about that is the probability that his Pre Snap will take huge leaps. This O Line looked competitive early on. Maybe they're threadbare, but they're running at Fronts when they're outnumbered. They're off assignment on plays when they have more blockers than defenders. Is it Halapio?...Is it Jones?

Empowered with the recognition and abiility to change plays, a bit of experience to throw some balls away to get to the next down, and some work on Ball Security---- He's is a good spot to make great advancement next year.

We can win with jones  
djm : 12/7/2019 11:46 am : link
And we can lose with jones. Sounds familiar.

Fix the fucking OL. I donít want anymore excuses. Giants spent big draft resources on jones and Barkley. Perhaps they should build a proper offense around those two instead of trying to fix every little piece on every unit. Fix the OL above all else. Turn something on this god forsaken team into a strength. The most talented players on this team are the rb and qb. Build around them. Protect them.
Meh  
Default : 12/7/2019 12:10 pm : link
I do think most of you guys giving him an A would be giving him an F if he had the same stat lines on a different team.
I Give Him a C  
BlueVinnie : 12/7/2019 12:20 pm : link
There's things to like, there's things not to like.

He's made some absolutely beautiful throws. He's made some absolutely horrible throws.

I love the mobility. I like the fact that he appears to be mentally tough. It could not have been easy to block out all the post-draft negative comments regarding his selection.

I, like most, am most concerned about the turnovers. Can the fumbling issue and pocket awareness be corrected via better coaching? I'm not so sure. His current TD to INT ratio is misleading. He's very lucky to have only 11 INTs on his record at this time. In just the last 2 games, there were 4 passes that should have been intercepted and they were simply dropped. There were a number of these in previous games as well. I'm not talking bad throws where they *could* have been picked off. Every QB has those. I'm talking passes that were outright dropped by the defenders.
RE: B- or C+  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/7/2019 12:41 pm : link
In comment 14704987 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
He throws a nice deep ball, pretty good athleticism, and seems to have an ability to anticipate routes and throw the ball into tight spaces based on where the receiver SHOULD be. I do believe he will improve the turnovers but will likely always struggle with it somewhat. However, his pocket awareness is abysmal and his arm strength is nothing more than average (ie: not talking about his ability to throw the ball far, more about the zip he has on his typical throws).

If you watch a player like Rodgers or Mahomes, they have significant velocity on their throws which makes it tougher for defensive players to get into position in time to make a play. Jones hasn't displayed have that kind of arm talent.

I like him as a player but his ceiling is somewhat limited based on his physical tools. If we build a good team around him I think he can be a winner but I don't see him every being an elite QB in the league.

That's my two cents, take it for what it's worth.


I don't often see eye to eye with Josh in the City, but the above assessment and grade are pretty fair and to my eyes accurate.

But I strongly disagree that his lack of physical tools, I guess Josh thinks that's his arm strength, is what limits his ceiling. Think of his upside as a bigger Joe Montana. What he needs to improve on to get there is mostly mental processing and awareness. Really, it's ALL MENTAL and spatial awareness and reading defenses accurately and quickly.

Hard to know if he can develop those skills to that level.
RE: We can win with jones  
Go Terps : 12/7/2019 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14706146 djm said:
Quote:
And we can lose with jones. Sounds familiar.

Fix the fucking OL. I donít want anymore excuses. Giants spent big draft resources on jones and Barkley. Perhaps they should build a proper offense around those two instead of trying to fix every little piece on every unit. Fix the OL above all else. Turn something on this god forsaken team into a strength. The most talented players on this team are the rb and qb. Build around them. Protect them.


We can win with him is a low bar. Unless the Giants change the way they design their roster, they need more.
I think he has earned another year  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/7/2019 4:43 pm : link
so whatever that grade looks like, B-?

He is accurate, that's innate. His throws were really off last game, which I think had to do with his leg being hurt. Throws a nice spiral which does help make up for lack of arm strength, especially in windy scenarios.

I wonder if he has Kerry Collins' lack of awareness in the pocket, not sure if that can really be coached out.

I don't remember who said this, but with his skill set and accuracy, I do see a Drew Brees like upside. If he can get a decent OL, I think he can have a excellent TD/INT ratio, he's that accurate. If he can move smartly in the pocket, he can be a huge asset.

Huge ifs though.
I think he's 2-8.  
WideRight : 12/8/2019 2:02 am : link

What did Parcells used to say.

And my deep dive is that he's very unlikely to get to .500 for his career
RE: I think he's 2-8.  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/8/2019 2:30 am : link
In comment 14706745 WideRight said:
Quote:

What did Parcells used to say.

And my deep dive is that he's very unlikely to get to .500 for his career


WTF? Been into the bottle tonight? I think Jones can flip that in a hurry if the Giants put a defense together, and I think they are close to achieving that. Especially if they land Chase Young, an above average free safety, and an upgrade over Tree.
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