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Question About Williams Trade

Samiam : 12/6/2019 3:00 pm
Is it guaranteed that the 3rd round pick in the trade is the Giants own pick? Aside from the possibility of a comp pick, could the Giants make another trade before the draft and acquire a later 3rd round pick? I’m asking if anybody from the team or league or the Jets has publicly said exactly what’s going on.
You cant trade a pick you dont have  
Touchdown maker : 12/6/2019 3:03 pm : link
The giants werent awarded a third rd comp pick yet so how could they trade it? Use your brain
I would assume  
jvm52106 : 12/6/2019 3:04 pm : link
it is the Giants pick, period. If they acquire another one that couldn't have been foreseen at the time of the Williams trade. It would have to have been a "conditional 3rd" and then the conditions laid out.
It's the Giants 3rd round pick.  
Section331 : 12/6/2019 3:26 pm : link
They can't swing a trade for, let's say, NE's 3rd rounder and then tell the Jets, Hey, here's your pick!
Don’t know  
Archer : 12/6/2019 3:34 pm : link
I asked this question previously
The trade stipulates a third round pick
It does not state that the Giants are trading their third round pick

We do not see the actual language of a trade but there can be conditions attached
The Giants cannot trade a pick they do not have but a condition of the trade could be that the Giants have the option to substitute another third round pick in lieu of their pick
This could be a compensatory pick
Johnny Boy should have the same type of question  
Silver Spoon : 12/6/2019 3:58 pm : link
for Gettleman - "About the Williams trade, why?"
Thank You Archer  
Samiam : 12/6/2019 4:00 pm : link
Pretty much asking if anybody has reported on this or has anybody from the teams gone public in any way. If the language of the deal says 3rd round pick but not specifically which one, lots of things could happen before the draft that would allow the Giants to trade a 3rd pick. Just asking if anybody heard specifics.
remember when the giants gave up a 3rd round pick  
japanhead : 12/6/2019 4:02 pm : link
to take sam beal in the supplemental and then he was injured for the next 18 months?

this isn't as bad as that, at least. right?

looking for some fucking sliver lining regarding any of the moves the giants make at this point
RE: Don’t know  
sb from NYT Forum : 12/6/2019 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14705446 Archer said:
Quote:
I asked this question previously
The trade stipulates a third round pick
It does not state that the Giants are trading their third round pick

We do not see the actual language of a trade but there can be conditions attached
The Giants cannot trade a pick they do not have but a condition of the trade could be that the Giants have the option to substitute another third round pick in lieu of their pick
This could be a compensatory pick


Total speculation.
RE: remember when the giants gave up a 3rd round pick  
Eric on Li : 12/6/2019 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14705495 japanhead said:
Quote:
to take sam beal in the supplemental and then he was injured for the next 18 months?

this isn't as bad as that, at least. right?

looking for some fucking sliver lining regarding any of the moves the giants make at this point


Remember 2011-2015 when we picked guys 5 years straight who never even came close to being starters? Or even good backups? Jernigan, Hosely, Moore, Bromley, Odigizua? Pretty sure this use of a 3rd round pick is at least better than that.

Davis Webb in 2017 followed suit so amazingly 2016's pick of Darian Thompson and him playing well for the Cowboys this year is the only thing that broke that streak.

So to me the silver lining is that the production we're getting from 3rd round picks since 2018 (LW included since he's an actually starting level player) is still light years ahead of the majority of the first part of this decade.
Here we go again - Reese was fired because his 3rd rounders  
jcn56 : 12/6/2019 4:29 pm : link
weren't amounting to anything.

Just skipping the middle man and giving the picks to other teams isn't improvement.
RE: Here we go again - Reese was fired because his 3rd rounders  
Eric on Li : 12/6/2019 4:35 pm : link
In comment 14705532 jcn56 said:
Quote:
weren't amounting to anything.

Just skipping the middle man and giving the picks to other teams isn't improvement.


Is acquiring a starting level player an improvement if they bring him back (and don't overpay)?

And I know Reese got fired, the point isn't to continue to beat that dead horse but to point out that 3rd round picks aren't exactly guaranteed production. A lot of those players he chose were highly ranked (not Jeff Hatch).
RE: RE: Here we go again - Reese was fired because his 3rd rounders  
jcn56 : 12/6/2019 4:53 pm : link
In comment 14705541 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14705532 jcn56 said:


Quote:


weren't amounting to anything.

Just skipping the middle man and giving the picks to other teams isn't improvement.



Is acquiring a starting level player an improvement if they bring him back (and don't overpay)?

And I know Reese got fired, the point isn't to continue to beat that dead horse but to point out that 3rd round picks aren't exactly guaranteed production. A lot of those players he chose were highly ranked (not Jeff Hatch).


Are you asking if getting a starter in exchange for picks and FA money is a fair value proposition, then no.

Leonard Williams isn't Khalil Mack. He's not Minkah Fitzpatrick (who at least had more years on his rookie deal). He's a good player who was going to be available in FA. There was demand for him as a rental, likely to teams that needed him *as a rental*.

So no - giving up a 3rd, a 4th (to beat the dead horse, both picks near the top of the round) AND pay FA dollars to get Williams here isn't fair value. It was widely questioned by pundits, for good reason.
I agree if they pay "FA dollars" - but to beat an even deader horse  
Eric on Li : 12/6/2019 5:04 pm : link
they have leverage to avoid doing that, starting with a 1 year tag in a year where they already have more room than they will be able to spend via "FA Dollars".

I'm not 100% sure on this math relative to market inflation but I think they could tag Williams and still have as much room as they had in 2016 to use (or carry over) when they signed 3 of the 8 most expensive FA's on the market.

That's why I think the "FA Dollars" thing is a strawman. If he doesn't want some kind of FMV extension then tag him. And then rinse and repeat next year. Keep him, tag him, trade him, let him walk possibly for a similar comp pick. He'll remain an asset as long as he's a starter without any crazy long term $.
No, it's not a strawman - he was going to be an FA  
jcn56 : 12/6/2019 5:08 pm : link
trading picks for players usually works one of two ways. One, as a short term rental in their walk year, going from a team that either doesn't need them or won't benefit and won't be resigning them as a result. The second, a player who no longer fits on a particular team, but still has some time left on their rookie contract.

Bad teams almost never trade for people in that first category. I'm not making it up - see if you can make a list of guys that bad teams have acquired for picks in their walk years.

The possible use of a franchise tag (or transition tag) - for a player who has been average throughout the course of 5 years in the NFL is ridiculous.

And the whole thing is made worse by the fact that of all the areas of need on the defense, interior DL was probably at the bottom of the list.

It was a bad move.
this defense isn't good enough to be picky about where it adds players  
Eric on Li : 12/6/2019 5:18 pm : link
Williams and Lawrence appear to be our 2 best DL by a large margin right now. Probably our 2 best overall defensive players. They grade out the best by the sources we see available be it PFF or Baldinger or whatever else there is. This team still desperately needs to upgrade in the trenches on both sides of the field and if he helps with that, great.

His availability in FA would have been very much uncertain, and if he did get there teams have no control over where players go - except by offering tremendous amounts of money.

I am FAR happier getting him for another 1 year deal (tag) than had we actually overpaid him via FA knowing that in the former scenario we could trade him again next deadline or let him walk as a FA if he doesn't fit the new coaching staff as opposed to being locked in sight unseen. Even if there's a little value lost in that exchange and we only recouped 1 similar pick to what was given up I think this was a case where the "rent to own" strategy made sense. But we can agree to disagree on that.
On another thread I just did the math - by the draft value chart  
jcn56 : 12/6/2019 5:25 pm : link
the Giants sacrificed two picks that combined would equal 368 points, enough to land them a 2nd round pick in the 21-22 range.

If you're asking whether or not I'd rather have the 53rd overall pick, and taken the chance on Leonard Williams being available in FA - I'd have to say yes, without question.

The fact that you can't rattle off a few teams who have done something similar before should tell you what you need to know here. I can't think of a single one, but my memory might be failing me.

He's the best interior DL after Lawrence? Not saying much. PFF likes him now? PFF hasn't for pretty much the duration of his career, and he's been here 3 games.

You don't care where on the line he goes? Well, that's resource allocation for you. The team still has no edge rushers, and now they might be paying a tag to Leonard Williams in an attempt to not lose the picks traded for him.

The Jets are laughing all the way to the bank. When your execs are getting hoodwinked by the Jets, it's time to move on.
The trade isn't gradeable until it fully plays out  
Torrag : 12/6/2019 5:27 pm : link
DL was a definite need at the time. The rotation was weak after Lawrence, Tomlinson and Hill. All of whom were playing too many snaps and the fall off to guys like McIntosh and Pierre was steep.

We already know that DG opened a dialogue with Williams agent to get a deal done. If they are able to re-sign him at a fair number before he hits the open market as a result of dealing for him it had some benefit. His pressure analytics are well above average and he's still young.

And it's not his first time - he traded a 4th and 6th for Ogletree  
jcn56 : 12/6/2019 5:27 pm : link
a guy many called 'our best linebacker' - akin to being the tallest pygmie, for the right to overpay him too.

Gettleman seems worse at these later picks - Ximines and Carter invisible, BJ Hill bad enough they had to trade Williams to have a shot at signing him, Lauletta's not even on the team anymore, and he's just giving up and handing them away now.
RE: RE: Here we go again - Reese was fired because his 3rd rounders  
HomerJones45 : 12/6/2019 5:27 pm : link
In comment 14705541 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14705532 jcn56 said:


Quote:


weren't amounting to anything.

Just skipping the middle man and giving the picks to other teams isn't improvement.



Is acquiring a starting level player an improvement if they bring him back (and don't overpay)?

And I know Reese got fired, the point isn't to continue to beat that dead horse but to point out that 3rd round picks aren't exactly guaranteed production. A lot of those players he chose were highly ranked (not Jeff Hatch).
this argument totally misses the point. The point is why trade a 3 round pick (+) pick for the “opportunity” to apply the transition or franchise tag or be the first in line to negotiate and write a big check when the guy is a free agent. Who does that?
RE: I agree if they pay  
AdamBrag : 12/6/2019 5:33 pm : link
In comment 14705570 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
they have leverage to avoid doing that, starting with a 1 year tag in a year where they already have more room than they will be able to spend via "FA Dollars".

I'm not 100% sure on this math relative to market inflation but I think they could tag Williams and still have as much room as they had in 2016 to use (or carry over) when they signed 3 of the 8 most expensive FA's on the market.

That's why I think the "FA Dollars" thing is a strawman. If he doesn't want some kind of FMV extension then tag him. And then rinse and repeat next year. Keep him, tag him, trade him, let him walk possibly for a similar comp pick. He'll remain an asset as long as he's a starter without any crazy long term $.


This is all kinds of wrong. You are just saying that we have lots of cap space, why not waste it?

The franchise tag for his position will likely be ~$17.5 million. That's a ton for Leonard Williams.

Aside from that, by giving up picks for someone we still need to sign as a FA, that means, even if we sign Williams, we are sacrificing the opportunity of having a contributor on a rookie contract. Instead of paying someone ~$800k per year, we are going to need to find a FA who winds up making $4m-$5m per year. Suddenly, by overspending on FAs like Williams and needing to sign FAs for more money then draft picks, we will run into cap problems.

These are the types of moves that make us mad in May when we are either complaining about lack of talent on the team or lack of depth on the team, or both.
...  
christian : 12/6/2019 5:34 pm : link
The second worst outcome to paying LW market setting money, is paying him 18M next year on a tag and then him walking. Paying him 20M+ for 24 games and losing 2 draft picks would be outrageous.
PFF has been pretty high on him throughout his career actually  
Eric on Li : 12/6/2019 5:38 pm : link
this article is from May, though there's obviously no question he took a step back in the Jets new D this year (they grade him at a 68.5 for whatever that's worth).

Quote:
Leonard Williams now has four NFL seasons under his belt, and he has earned an overall grade above 75.0 in every year of his short career so far. Williams’ overall grade of 78.2 last season ranked 32nd out of 129 qualifying interior defenders, and third out of 15 qualifying interior defenders from his draft class back in 2015, trailing only Grady Jarrett and Eddie Goldman.

Williams has been one of the most dominant forces against the run since being drafted, ranking among the top in several different run-defense metrics. Among 98 interior defenders with at least 500 run-defense snaps since 2015, Williams’ run-defense grade of 88.2 ranks 15th. In addition, he also has the third-most run stops (116), third-most tackles for no gain or loss (53), and fifth-most counts of making the first contact on a runner (183) at the position. It’s safe to say that Williams’ ability to move bodies and disrupt run plays is evident after four years in the NFL.

Given his dominant run defense, Williams could jump into elite territory if he just improved as a pass rusher. Although he’s coming off a career-high pass-rush grade of 71.4 last season – ranking 19th out of 129 interior defenders – he still has yet to earn a pass-rush grade above 75.0 for a single season, something that guys like Aaron Donald and Fletcher Cox can probably do in their sleep.


There's no question it's an unorthodox trade given our year was already over and LW himself seems to be a bit of an unknown. But if he turns out to be similar to Linval Joseph or his contemporary Eddie Goldman (i.e. a very good but not great player who does the dirty work) I think it will have proven to be a decent move.

To be clear I don't know if he's that good or not yet, that's why I'd like to tag him and find out next year. And if he's not then maybe recoup at least 1 of the 2 picks given up.
Leonard Williams' continued improvement as a pass-rusher could take the Jets defense to a whole new level in 2019 - ( New Window )
He's not an unknown  
jcn56 : 12/6/2019 5:45 pm : link
he's a guy that's been average, with a few spurts of good in his career. Even if he were an elite run defender, which he's not - you supposedly have that guy already in Lawrence.

And you have zero - not one - pass rusher worth a damn under contract in 2020.

That's not someone you tag - and it's definitely not someone you trade multiple picks for the right to tag.

Letting Linval Joseph go is a good example - he ended up exceeding expectations after the DL coaches in Minny found a problem with his stance. The Giants had a replacement in Hankins, who performed at a similar level to Joseph. People scream about not retaining Joseph - the real problem was that they squandered the money they saved when they moved to Hankins.
RE: remember when the giants gave up a 3rd round pick  
jeff57 : 12/6/2019 5:49 pm : link
In comment 14705495 japanhead said:
Quote:
to take sam beal in the supplemental and then he was injured for the next 18 months?

this isn't as bad as that, at least. right?

looking for some fucking sliver lining regarding any of the moves the giants make at this point


No. It’s worse.
You guys realize Leonard Williams made $14.2m this year right?  
Eric on Li : 12/6/2019 5:50 pm : link
and that at that salary he supposedly had other interested parties at the deadline? I don't recall reading countless arguments about the Jets being fools to have picked up his 5th year option at that price but maybe I'm wrong, I wasn't really paying that close attention.

The outrage at the thought of paying him not that much more than he made this year (as opposed to a big FA deal) is a little bit overdramatic IMO - especially since it comes with the pretty universally recognized benefits of contract year motivation and 0 long term risk.

Giving up a 3rd/4th will suck if the player sucks - like Ogletree has. But if he's good I think this is a good move (and he already looks a lot better than Ogletree did from day 1 here). Unlike Ogletree there's also a chance to mitigate the suckage by trading him again next year (if they tag) or getting a comp pick, but since we know they want to keep him that's not worth discussing in depth.
Eric on Li :  
arniefez : 12/6/2019 5:54 pm : link
Huh? No it's not a good move to give up a top 70 picks for an 8 game rental when you have NO CHANCE to win the year you get him.

Nothing else. That's the end of it. He is an 8 game rental you traded a top 70 pick for in a year when you're 2-10. That's embarrassing.

The rest of the NFL GMs are going to vote Gettleman executive of the decade if he keeps this up.
RE: He's not an unknown  
Eric on Li : 12/6/2019 5:55 pm : link
In comment 14705626 jcn56 said:
Quote:
he's a guy that's been average, with a few spurts of good in his career. Even if he were an elite run defender, which he's not - you supposedly have that guy already in Lawrence.

And you have zero - not one - pass rusher worth a damn under contract in 2020.

That's not someone you tag - and it's definitely not someone you trade multiple picks for the right to tag.

Letting Linval Joseph go is a good example - he ended up exceeding expectations after the DL coaches in Minny found a problem with his stance. The Giants had a replacement in Hankins, who performed at a similar level to Joseph. People scream about not retaining Joseph - the real problem was that they squandered the money they saved when they moved to Hankins.


Agree to disagree. They let Joseph go and the had to pay Snacks almost twice as much a few years later, and he was a damn good player even here before the Vikings coaches so they almost definitely would have won a few more games in the years in between.

Also Joseph walked in 2014, the same year they drafted Jay Bromley in the 3rd round. I'd gladly have parted with that pick and the extra $ to have just kept Joseph.

Maybe our new coaching staff can change LW's stance.
RE: You guys realize Leonard Williams made $14.2m this year right?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/6/2019 5:59 pm : link
In comment 14705630 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
and that at that salary he supposedly had other interested parties at the deadline? I don't recall reading countless arguments about the Jets being fools to have picked up his 5th year option at that price but maybe I'm wrong, I wasn't really paying that close attention.

The outrage at the thought of paying him not that much more than he made this year (as opposed to a big FA deal) is a little bit overdramatic IMO - especially since it comes with the pretty universally recognized benefits of contract year motivation and 0 long term risk.

Giving up a 3rd/4th will suck if the player sucks - like Ogletree has. But if he's good I think this is a good move (and he already looks a lot better than Ogletree did from day 1 here). Unlike Ogletree there's also a chance to mitigate the suckage by trading him again next year (if they tag) or getting a comp pick, but since we know they want to keep him that's not worth discussing in depth.


What's the point of this, though? They sent away damon harrison for nothing, only to watch the run defense nose dive, then turn around and trade a 3rd round pick for the same type of player, who will cost just as much as Snacks and also not solve the glaring issue of a nonexistant pass rush.

TTH - Snacks is 31 and his play has also supposedly nosedived  
Eric on Li : 12/6/2019 6:07 pm : link
to me the point is adding a potentially good player that's theoretically about to hit his prime.

If you told me we could get an age 26 snacks for a 3 & 4 right now, I'd be all for that too.

I don't know if LW is as good as Snacks though, that's why I'd tag him for a year to hopefully find out before spending bigger. And if he has another year like this one and doesn't make a big difference then hopefully there will be similar trade offers out there.
RE: No, it's not a strawman - he was going to be an FA  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/6/2019 6:23 pm : link
In comment 14705574 jcn56 said:
Quote:
trading picks for players usually works one of two ways. One, as a short term rental in their walk year, going from a team that either doesn't need them or won't benefit and won't be resigning them as a result. The second, a player who no longer fits on a particular team, but still has some time left on their rookie contract.

Bad teams almost never trade for people in that first category. I'm not making it up - see if you can make a list of guys that bad teams have acquired for picks in their walk years.

The possible use of a franchise tag (or transition tag) - for a player who has been average throughout the course of 5 years in the NFL is ridiculous.

And the whole thing is made worse by the fact that of all the areas of need on the defense, interior DL was probably at the bottom of the list.

It was a bad move.

The idea that we have fellow fans who are defending the move by pointing out that we gave up picks (plural) for the right to franchise tag a guy who failed to live up to his draft status and was such a disappointment that his former team was willing to let him walk tells you exactly where we are with DG.

If this was such a savvy move, where were the teams that were willing to pay Landon Collins in FA? Surely they would have ponied up some draft capital in exchange for the right to tag him instead, right?

Fucking lunacy.
RE: The trade isn't gradeable until it fully plays out  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/6/2019 6:25 pm : link
In comment 14705604 Torrag said:
Quote:
DL was a definite need at the time. The rotation was weak after Lawrence, Tomlinson and Hill. All of whom were playing too many snaps and the fall off to guys like McIntosh and Pierre was steep.

We already know that DG opened a dialogue with Williams agent to get a deal done. If they are able to re-sign him at a fair number before he hits the open market as a result of dealing for him it had some benefit. His pressure analytics are well above average and he's still young.

That can't be accurate. I've heard from several posters on here that DG's drafts have been excellent, so I can't imagine the drop off to McIntosh could be significant at all.
RE: RE: He's not an unknown  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/6/2019 6:34 pm : link
In comment 14705634 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14705626 jcn56 said:


Quote:


he's a guy that's been average, with a few spurts of good in his career. Even if he were an elite run defender, which he's not - you supposedly have that guy already in Lawrence.

And you have zero - not one - pass rusher worth a damn under contract in 2020.

That's not someone you tag - and it's definitely not someone you trade multiple picks for the right to tag.

Letting Linval Joseph go is a good example - he ended up exceeding expectations after the DL coaches in Minny found a problem with his stance. The Giants had a replacement in Hankins, who performed at a similar level to Joseph. People scream about not retaining Joseph - the real problem was that they squandered the money they saved when they moved to Hankins.



Agree to disagree. They let Joseph go and the had to pay Snacks almost twice as much a few years later, and he was a damn good player even here before the Vikings coaches so they almost definitely would have won a few more games in the years in between.

Also Joseph walked in 2014, the same year they drafted Jay Bromley in the 3rd round. I'd gladly have parted with that pick and the extra $ to have just kept Joseph.

Maybe our new coaching staff can change LW's stance.

Linking Joseph w/ Snacks is like claiming that they had to sign Carlos Emmons because they traded away Sam Huff.
RE: RE: RE: Here we go again - Reese was fired because his 3rd rounders  
bw in dc : 12/6/2019 6:55 pm : link
In comment 14705607 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 14705541 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 14705532 jcn56 said:


Quote:


weren't amounting to anything.

Just skipping the middle man and giving the picks to other teams isn't improvement.



Is acquiring a starting level player an improvement if they bring him back (and don't overpay)?

And I know Reese got fired, the point isn't to continue to beat that dead horse but to point out that 3rd round picks aren't exactly guaranteed production. A lot of those players he chose were highly ranked (not Jeff Hatch).

this argument totally misses the point. The point is why trade a 3 round pick (+) pick for the “opportunity” to apply the transition or franchise tag or be the first in line to negotiate and write a big check when the guy is a free agent. Who does that?


Resume Dave.

If this ends up in Transition Tag territory, and LW leaves because we don't exercise the right of first refusal, then this trade should result in Resume having blood work and a urinalysis to test for various issues...
drafts have been excellent so I can't imagine the drop off to McIntosh  
Torrag : 12/6/2019 7:04 pm : link
You're linking(or trying to) DG's draft record to the impact McIntosh(5th rounder) has made? That's some weaksauce debating there. How do you think Lawrence is doing? Maybe that's a more telling pick to base an argument on. What do you think?

We all know the jury is still out on the last two drafts. Next year we'll get a better read on the 2018 group. The 2019 class are rookies.
Then how are they noted by you as excellent  
Jimmy Googs : 12/6/2019 7:06 pm : link
if we have to wait to tell?
What is the reference Resume Dave  
Jimmy Googs : 12/6/2019 7:09 pm : link
supposed to be in regards to?
RE: Then how are they noted by you as excellent  
bw in dc : 12/6/2019 7:09 pm : link
In comment 14705681 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
if we have to wait to tell?


It's like innocent before being proven guilty.

You have to assume DG's drafts are excellent until proven otherwise...
'Then how are they noted by you as excellent '  
Torrag : 12/6/2019 7:11 pm : link
Jimmy read the whole discussion before commenting please. You didn't follow the exchange correctly.
RE: On another thread I just did the math - by the draft value chart  
TD : 12/6/2019 7:12 pm : link
In comment 14705601 jcn56 said:
Quote:
the Giants sacrificed two picks that combined would equal 368 points, enough to land them a 2nd round pick in the 21-22 range.

If you're asking whether or not I'd rather have the 53rd overall pick, and taken the chance on Leonard Williams being available in FA - I'd have to say yes, without question.

The fact that you can't rattle off a few teams who have done something similar before should tell you what you need to know here. I can't think of a single one, but my memory might be failing me.

He's the best interior DL after Lawrence? Not saying much. PFF likes him now? PFF hasn't for pretty much the duration of his career, and he's been here 3 games.

You don't care where on the line he goes? Well, that's resource allocation for you. The team still has no edge rushers, and now they might be paying a tag to Leonard Williams in an attempt to not lose the picks traded for him.

The Jets are laughing all the way to the bank. When your execs are getting hoodwinked by the Jets, it's time to move on.


Fucking spot on post. This should be stickied.
I see that now  
Jimmy Googs : 12/6/2019 7:13 pm : link
But didn’t help you quoting somebody else in your Subject line. Use the quote markings.

Some of us drink on Friday evenings...

:-)
'Use the quote markings'  
Torrag : 12/6/2019 7:17 pm : link
I ran out of spaces so I skipped them. I usually do. Enjoy the evening.
RE: What is the reference Resume Dave  
bw in dc : 12/6/2019 7:20 pm : link
In comment 14705684 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
supposed to be in regards to?


How DG likes to remind people about all of the super bowl teams he's helped build...
I didn’t think DG was going to be able to beat the Solder deal  
Jimmy Googs : 12/6/2019 7:35 pm : link
for providing more reasons to not trust his judgment (at least for me), but this Leonard Williams transaction is close to gross negligence.

And these are the blockbuster ones...the middle range and smaller deals show fairly consistent fuck-ups.

Resume Dave is going to need to update his fairly soon...
RE: RE: RE: He's not an unknown  
Eric on Li : 12/6/2019 8:14 pm : link
In comment 14705653 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:

Linking Joseph w/ Snacks is like claiming that they had to sign Carlos Emmons because they traded away Sam Huff.


Linval Joseph signed with the Vikings March 11th 2014 after starting 47 of the previous 48 games here the 3 seasons prior (including SB season).

In 2014 the Giants DT's were Hankins yr 2 + Mike Patterson + Jay Bromley rookie year.
In 2015 the Giants DT's were Hankins yr 3 + Cullen Jenkins. + Jay Bromley yr 2.

On March 9th 2016 the Giants signed Snacks to a contract sizably bigger than what Joseph had gotten 2 years earlier. If you don't think they wish they could have gotten a 'do over' on letting him walk because our DT's mostly sucked after he left, I don't know what to tell you. Clearly they felt DT was a big hole because of how much they paid Snacks (who I consider a good signing).
RE: RE: No, it's not a strawman - he was going to be an FA  
sb from NYT Forum : 12/6/2019 8:30 pm : link
Quote:
If this was such a savvy move, where were the teams that were willing to pay Landon Collins in FA? Surely they would have ponied up some draft capital in exchange for the right to tag him instead, right?


Great fucking point.
wasn't it pretty well reported they got 3rd round pick offers on LC?  
Eric on Li : 12/6/2019 8:38 pm : link
Quote:
Multiple teams made offers to the Giants for the 24-year-old safety, a source told SNY on Tuesday, including the Kansas City Chiefs and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. The Giants were looking for at least a second-round pick in 2019 plus possibly another low-round pick in 2020, one source said.

No team is believed to have offered more than a third.

Giants had several suitors for S Landon Collins before trade deadline - ( New Window )
you people saying this was a good trade  
WalterSobchak : 12/6/2019 8:41 pm : link
are on fucking crack. Horrible horrible trade
I have this premonition that Janoris Jenkins won't be back next year  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 12/6/2019 9:04 pm : link
and people here will applaud. He's having a very good season with his four picks, 14 passes defended. He's third in solo tackles behind the two safeties (admittedly he does miss more tackles than you like to see). And other teams have mostly been throwing away from him, which is one of the reasons that the young corners have looked so bad.

If he plays out this season, he will have started in 55 of the 64 games in his four seasons.

It was usually thought to be a good idea to have a veteran on hand when you had a lot of inexperienced kids around. Does it matter if he's overpaid when he fits comfortably under the cap? That's the way of the NFL. Some are underpaid (like many on their rookie contracts) and some are overpaid.

To me, letting him go would just be adding another hole in the defense that has to be filled.

Something else that’s funny...  
trueblueinpw : 12/6/2019 9:06 pm : link
Why would LW even want to sign with the Giants? NJ is a terrible tax and cost of living state. The Giants franchise is a laughing stock tossed into a dumpster fire. Coach Murmur is probably on the way out and I don’t see any way Betcher is here next year. I can’t think of too many worse places to sign right now than the Giants. Seriously, the dumbest trade in NFL history. Getty is completely incompetent.
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