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Chase Young vs Wisconsin tonight ó what do you see?

Jim from Katonah : 12/7/2019 6:17 pm
Chase Young in a meaningful game vs a solid team tonight. Heís healthy and in prime time. The hype machine is going to be out in full force ó but letís try to form our own opinion on him as if we didnít know he was the consensus canít miss guy.

Havenít really seen him play a full game yet. Looks like a Greek God and Iíve heard the raves ... but curious to see his motor, bend, and closing burst.
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He looks a LOT better than  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/7/2019 11:34 pm : link
than Josh Allen.

He just sealed the game for OSU. With help...
Funny pic  
Big Rick in FL : 12/7/2019 11:37 pm : link
From tonight's game

RE: I haven't seen him do much of anything  
barens : 12/7/2019 11:37 pm : link
In comment 14706623 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
He looks like a JAG out there, not a top pick. He's not even being doubled teamed.


Youíre right, heís being triple teamed.
RE: He is killing that tackle with you outside speed  
Jim from Katonah : 12/7/2019 11:39 pm : link
In comment 14706705 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
Bend and good use of his hands.


Yeah, the play where he hit the QBs arm ... that looked an NFL difference maker. Showing something now that Wisconsin forced to throw.
Biadasz has handled his assignments one on one all night  
Torrag : 12/7/2019 11:39 pm : link
Allowing the left side to help on Young. Nice job.
Yeah Young made an impact there  
Torrag : 12/7/2019 11:40 pm : link
Impressive his motor at high effort all night.
I am not impressed  
Spirit of '86 : 12/7/2019 11:44 pm : link
Give me Isaiah Simmons. He looked great tonight. Chase Young did not stand out even when he was blocked by one.
RE: I am not impressed  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/7/2019 11:52 pm : link
In comment 14706715 Spirit of '86 said:
Quote:
Give me Isaiah Simmons. He looked great tonight. Chase Young did not stand out even when he was blocked by one.


You sir, are blind. He consistently beat the drum off the Badgers' OLT one on one, and from the inside the OLT had help, and the QB was getting rid of the ball consistently in 2 seconds or even less.
RE: Yeah Young made an impact there  
Jim from Katonah : 12/7/2019 11:52 pm : link
In comment 14706712 Torrag said:
Quote:
Impressive his motor at high effort all night.


Agreed. I had the misimpression that Young was a monster Julius Peppers type. Heís a lot smaller ó almost like a big LB, maybe 260lbs ó but potentially a lot more versatile. Has the frame to drop back in coverage etc. Iím not completely blown away by the guy ó but can see the allure especially if itís true that heís got the heart and motor.
RE: RE: I am not impressed  
Jim from Katonah : 12/7/2019 11:55 pm : link
In comment 14706718 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14706715 Spirit of '86 said:


Quote:


Give me Isaiah Simmons. He looked great tonight. Chase Young did not stand out even when he was blocked by one.



You sir, are blind. He consistently beat the drum off the Badgers' OLT one on one, and from the inside the OLT had help, and the QB was getting rid of the ball consistently in 2 seconds or even less.


Agreed ó Young is excellent at shedding hands. I hope he doesnít double down on bulking up. The more movement skills heís got, the better.
RE: RE: I am not impressed  
Nine-Tails : 12/8/2019 12:01 am : link
In comment 14706718 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14706715 Spirit of '86 said:


Quote:


Give me Isaiah Simmons. He looked great tonight. Chase Young did not stand out even when he was blocked by one.



You sir, are blind. He consistently beat the drum off the Badgers' OLT one on one, and from the inside the OLT had help, and the QB was getting rid of the ball consistently in 2 seconds or even less.


Itís a shame really, some just donít get it. Itís like they expect him to be at the qbs face each time within .1 seconds.
RE: RE: RE: I am not impressed  
Jim from Katonah : 12/8/2019 12:14 am : link
Youíve seen him a lot more than me ...Iíve only seen 5 quarters all year ... do you think heís worth a no. 1 or 2 overall, or would you try to trade down and fill holes?
Jim from Katonah, I agree with your sentiment about Young  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/8/2019 12:43 am : link
"not bulking up."

He's not a DE like the Bosa brothers, he's much more a Lawrence Taylor "type" although I doubt he has the crazy natural strength LT had.

He's not a 4-3 DE ideally, he's muchore a 3-4 edge/OLB.

I guess he'll have a heckuva combine in the agility, movement skills, explosion tests, but he doesn't look the type to throw up anywhere near 30 reps on the bench.

So much the better if he builds on his quickness, agility and bend rather than bulk strength.
How about the Giants poach OSU's DL  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/8/2019 12:46 am : link
position coach?

Those DL have excellent technique and are very disciplined.
Todayís stats  
Nine-Tails : 12/8/2019 1:13 am : link
6 tackles, 1.5 tkl for loss, 2 pass breakups, 2 qb hits. Was Blocked by multiple guys several times and had a huge stop on fourth down. And yet you have some here calling him a jag or having no impact, what a joke
RE: Moving into  
sb from NYT Forum : 12/8/2019 1:44 am : link
In comment 14706679 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
The late first like we did for Baker and drafting Biadasz would be ideal.


Maybe we can use our third or fourth rounder to move up... oh wait
I will say this  
Anakim : 12/8/2019 1:50 am : link
I think Chase Young optimizes his abilities when he is standing up. Look at his game against Penn State. Most of his damage was down using his speed to go around the OT.


He can play in both schemes, but I think he'll make more of an impact as a 3-4 ER than a 4-3 DE.
Physically he compares well with Osi,  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/8/2019 2:49 am : link
but IMO it looks as if his arc on his outside rush, his signature, go to move, is a heck of a lot tighter than Osi's was. He bends that corner at a very sharp angle, whereas Osi looped around with a considerably larger radius.

That's extremely valuable.
Chase reminds me of Strahan....Osi relied on speed only., imo.  
George from PA : 12/8/2019 4:17 am : link
And the Giaants have a 3rd...comp pick for Collins and a 4th.

It would be 2021 4th, if they sign Williams
Josh Allen  
jacob12 : 12/8/2019 4:46 am : link
Josh Allen has 9 sacks and he should have 10. Pat Mahomes suffered a dislocated kneecap against the Jaguars. Allen came flying off the edge and sacked Mahomes. Allen caused the injury.

I hope Chase Young plays as well as Josh Allen.
A JAG?  
nyballa0891 : 12/8/2019 5:26 am : link
My god, if we have an opportunity to draft this guy and we pass on it I will lose my mind. He was consistently in the backfield and getting pressure all the while being doubled the entire night. He has plenty of ďburstĒ but his most impressive attribute are his hands. He has violent hands and is incredibly strong at the point of attack.

I cant believe people are expecting the guy to have 3 sacks every game, or just formulating an opinion on him based on a few quarters. Iíve followed this dude all year and he is going to be a stud
That picture  
mdthedream : 12/8/2019 7:31 am : link
says it all he was triple teamed and everyone else was man to man.What does that tell you. Hmm he is avg passrusher or someone you better double or triple team?
UW made some adjustments  
Jay in Toronto : 12/8/2019 7:38 am : link
But not enough. A key one was on Young.

He is a beast.

Wouldn't it be lovely to have him at one OLB and Baun at the other.
Chase Young is right there with Jadaveon Clowney  
Matt G : 12/8/2019 8:23 am : link
As the best DE prospects coming out of college that I've seen (might be able to throw Peppers in the mix, but he was a bit more raw). And Young had a better college career than Clowney, who basically mailed it in his junior season. Both incredibly talented with massive upside.

I'm stating the obvious here, but his level of success in the NFL is going to depend on injuries and work ethic. Clowney hasn't been the absolute game wrecker that I would have expected largely due to the micro-fracture surgery... Still a very good player who has altered his game to rely more on power than speed.

Now take a Michael Strahan, who was nowhere near as talented as either Young or Clowney. In his first few seasons, he looked like an average to slightly above average starter, but he just kept adding tools to his arsenal. Relentlessly focused on his technique, the cerebral aspects of his game (i.e. setting up his opponents) and becoming a COMPLETE player. First as an excellent run defender, then as a pass rusher. The arc of his career always seemed to be pointing up. Even toward the end when he played at a lighter weight to retain some speed while relying on leverage and technique to overpower linemen who outweighed him +75 lbs. By the end of his career, he was one of the most complete DEs in NFL history.

To me, that's always the biggest wildcard in evaluating these guys. Can they stay healthy and are they going to continuously improve their skill set vs relying on their incredible talent? If Chase Young can do that, he's wearing a gold jacket 20 years from now.

It is VERY exciting to have an opportunity to add a kid with this much upside (and yes, I obviously would much rather won more games this year).



I donít see Clowney...  
bw in dc : 12/8/2019 8:33 am : link
comp. Clowney was much more explosive off the ball at South Carolina.

But I do see some of the Peppers comp. Especially with the wing span and power/speed combination. And some Jevon Kearse...again with the length...
Not a comparison of play style...  
Matt G : 12/8/2019 9:31 am : link
Just the immense upside coming out of college
Jevon Kearse was a freak  
Matt G : 12/8/2019 9:34 am : link
But an extremely one-dimensional player... Both in college and the NFL
Simmons  
BigBlueCane : 12/8/2019 10:25 am : link
is the better player, more versatile and a better athlete.
RE: A JAG?  
Jim from Katonah : 12/8/2019 10:30 am : link
This is valuable analysis for me, who has only seen him play a few quarters all year. Itís very possible that Iím an idiot, but in my limited viewing, I didnít see a Reggie White or Von Miller phenom that jumps off the screen with a special attribute ó a game changer worth tanking for, in other words.

Young seems like a guy worth drafting at #2 ó fast, strong, versatile ó but I keep coming back to the value of trading down and increasing our probabilities of improving the team in a sport with a 100% injury rate and an imperfect (at best) scouting process. The Giants rarely if ever trade down, and are always in pursuit of a blue goose or whatever they are calling them ó but with such little talent, Iíd like to see them try a different approach.
Would love to add this stud  
Metnut : 12/8/2019 10:32 am : link
to our team. Heís the type of player other teams game plan against. Would really open things up for for Lawrence, Golden and Williams (if the latter two are retained).
RE: Would love to add this stud  
Giantz_comeback : 12/8/2019 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14706987 Metnut said:
Quote:
to our team. Heís the type of player other teams game plan against. Would really open things up for for Lawrence, Golden and Williams (if the latter two are retained).


You add young to that trio and a good DC thats the making of a pretty strong front seven especially with Connelly back next year.
RE: Todayís stats  
Giantz_comeback : 12/8/2019 12:06 pm : link
In comment 14706734 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
6 tackles, 1.5 tkl for loss, 2 pass breakups, 2 qb hits. Was Blocked by multiple guys several times and had a huge stop on fourth down. And yet you have some here calling him a jag or having no impact, what a joke


Considering the attention he got this was a very strong game for him.
RE: Simmons  
bw in dc : 12/8/2019 12:13 pm : link
In comment 14706975 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
is the better player, more versatile and a better athlete.


The case for Simmons is his ability as a three down LB. I think every team in the NFL is looking for one of those...
RE: RE: A JAG?  
cokeduplt : 12/8/2019 12:14 pm : link
In comment 14706983 Jim from Katonah said:
Quote:
This is valuable analysis for me, who has only seen him play a few quarters all year. Itís very possible that Iím an idiot, but in my limited viewing, I didnít see a Reggie White or Von Miller phenom that jumps off the screen with a special attribute ó a game changer worth tanking for, in other words.

Young seems like a guy worth drafting at #2 ó fast, strong, versatile ó but I keep coming back to the value of trading down and increasing our probabilities of improving the team in a sport with a 100% injury rate and an imperfect (at best) scouting process. The Giants rarely if ever trade down, and are always in pursuit of a blue goose or whatever they are calling them ó but with such little talent, Iíd like to see them try a different approach.



If youíve only watched a few quarters youíre a analysis is worthless
I'd love to see Simmons and Connelly as our inside linebackers.  
Ira : 12/8/2019 12:18 pm : link
Simmons is athletic, a good tackler and a playmaker. He'd help our pass defense in the middle of the field which has been a big problem.
RE: RE: A JAG?  
ColHowPepper : 12/8/2019 12:33 pm : link
In comment 14706983 Jim from Katonah said:
Quote:
This is valuable analysis for me, who has only seen him play a few quarters all year. Itís very possible that Iím an idiot, but in my limited viewing, I didnít see a Reggie White or Von Miller phenom that jumps off the screen with a special attribute ó a game changer worth tanking for, in other words.

Young seems like a guy worth drafting at #2 ó fast, strong, versatile ó but I keep coming back to the value of trading down and increasing our probabilities of improving the team in a sport with a 100% injury rate and an imperfect (at best) scouting process. The Giants rarely if ever trade down, and are always in pursuit of a blue goose or whatever they are calling them ó but with such little talent, Iíd like to see them try a different approach.
Agree with this, and trading down, the OL HAS to be fixed, otherwise the drafting of Jones is just like sand through a collander
RE: I'd love to see Simmons and Connelly as our inside linebackers.  
Jay in Toronto : 12/8/2019 5:45 pm : link
In comment 14707132 Ira said:
Quote:
Simmons is athletic, a good tackler and a playmaker. He'd help our pass defense in the middle of the field which has been a big problem.


Connelly is an international day ILB.

Let's also draft Zac Braun if we want a Badger OLB (or trade for Schoebert or TJ Wattl
Have no idea  
Jay in Toronto : 12/8/2019 5:46 pm : link
Where international day came from
Have no idea  
Jay in Toronto : 12/8/2019 5:56 pm : link
Where international day came from
I can't understand how anyone...  
Johnny5 : 12/8/2019 8:58 pm : link
... can watch that game and say Young looks like a JAG? WTH? lol

Wisconsin OL is very good and they totally game planned to minimize his effect as much as possible. That pic posted says it all. 2 OL and a TE all looking to get their hands on him while everyone else is one on one. And he still had a good game. The guy is a player, violent hands is right... I'd LOVE to add him to our defense.
RE: I haven't seen him do much of anything  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 12/8/2019 9:05 pm : link
In comment 14706623 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
He looks like a JAG out there, not a top pick. He's not even being doubled teamed.


Posts like this make me wonder if people just post about shit they aren't watching or if they are that horrible at comprehending what they are watching.
RE: RE: I haven't seen him do much of anything  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/11/2019 5:20 am : link
In comment 14707886 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14706623 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


He looks like a JAG out there, not a top pick. He's not even being doubled teamed.



Posts like this make me wonder if people just post about shit they aren't watching or if they are that horrible at comprehending what they are watching.


The problem most people have observing well and accurately, including myself, is threefold.
1) First you rarely have cameras focusing on players outside of the offensive skills guys, and even then only the guy with the ball in his hands - most often the QB. So since there isn't a camera focused on this or that DT or ER all night, you only see that individual when he is the guy making the play on the QB or RB or WR or TE - ie you get to see him ONLY when he's THE GUY making the tackle, pass breakup, strip sack, or FF!!!

2) Nobody, not even Lawrence Taylor, was making those type of plays multiple times in a single game because if said player is really good he gets accounted for - by being double (or even triple) teamed, by being chipped, by having plays run away from him, by having the QB get the ball out of his hands EVERY PLAY in 2 seconds or less.

That's how teams nullify a great pass rusher, even an impact making pass rusher. But said player STILL HAS AN IMPACT, even if he isn't the one logging up the stat sheet...

3) Because the other team is focusing on him so much, they become predictable in their play designs, and far easier to defend.

If Wisconsin is sliding their OL to block Young with at least 2 guys all night, and leaving the three other DL one on one, and you NEED a sack, you dial up an extra pass rusher on the opposite side from your stud ER and the extra Blitzer has a good shot of getting on the QB untouched...

If the other team is running every play to get the ball out if the QBs hands in under 2 seconds, and you can't possibly get pass rush pressure on him, you simply stack your back seven (or 8) within the short pass zones and make completing those type of passes - the quick slants, quick outs, and short stemmed rub routes practically impossible to complete. You flood the short zones with bodies.

That's pretty much what OSU did to completely nullify Wisconsin's offense for the entire second half!


It might not be Young actually making the plays, but he was the key to the whole 2nd half defensive domination of Wisc by OSU.

When they left him one on one, as we saw, he got to the QB in a flash, disrupted the play, and damn near had a strip sack. All on a 2 second drop back and throw...

You've got to see the whole Forest and the individual trees at the same time.

It's not easy.
BlueLou  
cosmicj : 12/11/2019 9:19 am : link
That's a great post. I think all the serious fans here know the dynamic you explain but you lay it out beautifully.
RE: BlueLou  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/11/2019 10:52 am : link
In comment 14714183 cosmicj said:
Quote:
That's a great post. I think all the serious fans here know the dynamic you explain but you lay it out beautifully.


Thanks Cosmicjc.

Yeah there are lots of guys and gals who understand this inside out here, that's part of what makes this a great forum.

But even among them, the lack of success for an extended time period clouds the horizon to the point of obfuscation.

It helps me that I am old enough to have perspective on what "bad" football looks like.

Watch our DL now. The double teams, if applied at all (and they are, often enough) go towards defending Lawrence, Williams, even Hill at times on passing plays, and directed at Tomlinson plenty vs runs. Although Brooks manhandled Tomlinson one on one when I focused on them Monday night. Brooks is a pro bowl or all pro level OG, let's not forget.

But Carter, Ximines, and even Golden our best edge rusher are almost always handled one on one.

Young if we draft him will bring a synergy to our DL. Because his greatest asset is his outside speed rush and great bend and hands off the edge, he will command at least chip help, even as a rookie. IMO.



BlueLou  
Jay in Toronto : 12/11/2019 12:36 pm : link
great post. Their first game Badgers had no answer so they clearly schemed for him in this last one.

OSU made some adjustments (more zone) and came out woken up and the second half was as you described it.
Young unsurprisingly made the Athletic All-American team  
Jay in Toronto : 12/11/2019 12:37 pm : link
Interestingly Biadasz and Taylor also made the offense team. They were 3 star recruits. The only other was the guard from LSU. The other 8 were 4 and 5 star.
RE: How about the Giants poach OSU's DL  
Pete in MD : 12/11/2019 12:53 pm : link
In comment 14706730 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
position coach?

Those DL have excellent technique and are very disciplined.

OSU DL coach is one of the best in the biz, Larry Johnson Sr. Long time coach of McDonough High School (here in MD), Penn State, and father of the former PSU and NFL running back.
RE: RE: How about the Giants poach OSU's DL  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/12/2019 12:46 am : link
In comment 14714659 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
In comment 14706730 BlueLou'sBack said:


Quote:


position coach?

Those DL have excellent technique and are very disciplined.


OSU DL coach is one of the best in the biz, Larry Johnson Sr. Long time coach of McDonough High School (here in MD), Penn State, and father of the former PSU and NFL running back.


I wonder if the kids he coaches even know about his son, and what an awesome RB he was for a couple of years. He was unstoppable for a short while, Larry Johnson (JR.)
You can't triple team in the NFL  
montanagiant : 12/12/2019 12:49 am : link
Otherwise, the rest of the D-line gets to the QB. The mere fact this is what Wisconsin had to do to limit him speaks volumes of what he can bring to the table
RE: BlueLou  
Eman11 : 12/12/2019 7:25 am : link
In comment 14714620 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
great post. Their first game Badgers had no answer so they clearly schemed for him in this last one.

OSU made some adjustments (more zone) and came out woken up and the second half was as you described it.


Michigan clearly schemed to not let him ruin that game either. It resulted in the rest of the D coming through and shutting down Michigan pretty good in the second half.
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