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| Then, there’s the comedy of errors that is Gettleman trading potentially the No. 66 overall pick for a defensive end, to replace defensive end B.J. Hill -- who was chosen No. 69 overall in 2018 -- and was made virtually irrelevant by the acquisition of Williams. |
Then spend 1/3 of your picks on d-line where you did so well that you need to spend two more for a guy you have yet to sign - and still need an edge rusher.
DG isn’t out of touch- he’s just not great at his job.
Uh, Pats traded a 2nd for a WR who is hurt and been a non factor. And he's older and making good money.
For instance, that's worse.
Yes, he'll cost some $$$ but I'm personally fine allocating resources to the LOS on both sides of the ball.
I want the Giants to get back to having a dominant DLine - Williams can be a part of that. Hill is a rotational piece at both NT and 3T - which is fine for a 3rd round pick.
Please, they were plenty hard on Reese towards the end. Being GM for two SB winning seasons gets you some latitude.
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These writers were as hard on Jerry Reese as they are Gettleman. Jerry Reese had years of incompetence and anything negative that was written centered on Tom Coughlin and/or Eli Manning.
Please, they were plenty hard on Reese towards the end. Being GM for two SB winning seasons gets you some latitude.
I also wondered why were supposed to give Eli respect and forgive his bad play because he won two Super Bowls but Jerry Reese doesn’t get that same type of respect.
pick is all time bad. Try to be a little thoughtful and objective before you post. It's statements like these that garner you little respect as a poster here.
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DG took a swing and everyone laughed their asses off at him when he did. He was the butt end of every joke on sport talk all across the country. He was a complete joke even here on BBI.
But in the end Gettleman got it right and EVERYONE else was wrong. Daniel Jones has the makings of a very good to great QB, if groomed correctly.
To say he is out of touch isn't looking at the facts. He was miles ahead of everyone else on draft day.
Without disagreeing about Jones I think you are still wrong. His biggest decision was that the problems in 2017 required getting rid of the entire roster rather than just firing the coaches and replacing them with a good coaching staff and strengthening the OL. He blew that one and the result is we ended up with a mediocre (at best) coaching staff and (at best) a similar talent level to what we had in 2017.
One thing to keep in mind is we really don't know who was DG's and the teams first choice for Head Coach. For all we know they made multiple offers and at the end Shurmer was the best choice left.
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dumb trade.
Another one who exaggerates and ignores history. An all time dumb trade? A fucking mid round pick???
Jfc
I think you need to look in the mirror.
I'm with you-- this move was a good move if they sign him (we'll never know if he ends up signing if the move helped but you got to give DG the benefit of the doubt if it did.).
But when it comes to exaggeration / twisting things you're one of the biggest twisters of posts and DG apologists on this site.
But the trade is fine if he gets LW.
I'm wiht oyu to a point but a few htings.
1--- You realize the trade is more than a 3rd round pick, right? It's potentially also a 4th. We have two 5th rd picks that looked pretty good this year, didn't we? SO we are losing potentially two players for this right? Not just one that you are trying to portray.
2-- Yes we will survive - but if they don't get him-- it was incredibly stupid then, wasn't it? Or because you want to justify the potential awful move by saying "we will survive" that makes the trade okay if they don't sign him? Looks like you just want to give DG pass here regardless what happens. .
3-- You're really trying to push "guts" on here? SO a team could suck but because you like "the guts" a GM has-- then it's okay? SOme of you just fall for his shtick and it's so pathetic. C'mon -- it's about winning. Your fandom / homerism needs to take a step back.
Next year let's see DG put together a team that can challenge for the playoffs after his 3rd year. I get the feeling if they stink again next year posters such as yourself will be pushing DG's moves a positive because "he had guts."
Then spend 1/3 of your picks on d-line where you did so well that you need to spend two more for a guy you have yet to sign - and still need an edge rusher.
DG isn’t out of touch- he’s just not great at his job.
Picking Jones is turning out to be the right move. I’m not a Gettleman fan but you’re wrong
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the third round pick would be a better player than Leonard Williams? Close to zero? Now factor into the difference in salary that Williams will get to stay here and then you can make an evaluation. As of now; we have no idea what that will be. On the other hand, if we don’t resign Williams then we lose a third round pick for this, which is undoubtedly bad, but we will survive. Picking Barkley second overall might be something to write about being a colossal error and out of the era of dinosaurs but that would take some guts which our beat writers largely are lacking in.
I'm wiht oyu to a point but a few htings.
1--- You realize the trade is more than a 3rd round pick, right? It's potentially also a 4th. We have two 5th rd picks that looked pretty good this year, didn't we? SO we are losing potentially two players for this right? Not just one that you are trying to portray.
2-- Yes we will survive - but if they don't get him-- it was incredibly stupid then, wasn't it? Or because you want to justify the potential awful move by saying "we will survive" that makes the trade okay if they don't sign him? Looks like you just want to give DG pass here regardless what happens. .
3-- You're really trying to push "guts" on here? SO a team could suck but because you like "the guts" a GM has-- then it's okay? SOme of you just fall for his shtick and it's so pathetic. C'mon -- it's about winning. Your fandom / homerism needs to take a step back.
Next year let's see DG put together a team that can challenge for the playoffs after his 3rd year. I get the feeling if they stink again next year posters such as yourself will be pushing DG's moves a positive because "he had guts."
No my point is that the pick to make DG look like a dinosaur is Saquon Barkley second overall. That was a pick where we could have drafted a lineman or traded down, we could have bluffed much better and make like we were going to pick Darnold etc. instead, we let the whole world know we liked SB and we took him. But in order to write that article the beat writers have to have some guts and criticize Barkley not only in the season that he is having this year but in the value he has to a franchise even under a season like he had last year. Most beat writers instead seem to go after low hanging fruit like Williams in which they say certain things (so stupid to trace a third and fifth) that have some appeal but do not reflect a nuanced view of everything and which there is already groupthink on since the minute we made the trade.
Gettleman brings it upon himself by sounding like a buffoon every chance he gets.
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In comment 14706892 bw in dc said:
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dumb trade.
Another one who exaggerates and ignores history. An all time dumb trade? A fucking mid round pick???
Jfc
I think you need to look in the mirror.
I'm with you-- this move was a good move if they sign him (we'll never know if he ends up signing if the move helped but you got to give DG the benefit of the doubt if it did.).
But when it comes to exaggeration / twisting things you're one of the biggest twisters of posts and DG apologists on this site.
But the trade is fine if he gets LW.
I’m not ignoring history it just doesn’t apply to DG as much as some here insist. Dg didn’t sink this franchise to 2017. He’s trying to uplift it.
Calling trade one of the dumbest is just over the top. We’re talking 2 mid round picks. Get a grip. I can list dumber trades last year alone that dwarf this one even if Williams walks in FA.
In today' world of QBs we select a slightly more mobile Eli Manning clone that fumbles like him. Its called dual-threat, maybe the org should add that to their football vocabulary.
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In comment 14706966 djm said:
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In comment 14706892 bw in dc said:
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I think you need to look in the mirror.
I'm with you-- this move was a good move if they sign him (we'll never know if he ends up signing if the move helped but you got to give DG the benefit of the doubt if it did.).
But when it comes to exaggeration / twisting things you're one of the biggest twisters of posts and DG apologists on this site.
But the trade is fine if he gets LW.
I’m not ignoring history it just doesn’t apply to DG as much as some here insist. Dg didn’t sink this franchise to 2017. He’s trying to uplift it.
Calling trade one of the dumbest is just over the top. We’re talking 2 mid round picks. Get a grip. I can list dumber trades last year alone that dwarf this one even if Williams walks in FA.
1--- I agree with you about LW. GMEN/DG were right if he signs.
2-- But name some trades this past year you think are worse if LW walks. We're losing potentially a cost-controlled "Slayton" and "Connelly" on team looking to rebuild. What trades were worse combination of short-term and long-term? I'm not saying you are wrong-- just asking you to provide some examples if you can please.
3-- History does apply but some of you choose to consistently bury your head in the sand for anything that doesn't come up roses for DG.
Regarding 2018 - first you speak of after 2017 DG you claim Dg was trying to "uplift the franchise." With that said I'm sure we can agree this is a results business. Please identify which Free Agents of 2018 have proved to be successful signings that will uplift our team for the future. Please identify them without the usual excuse making for any failures.
Regarding 2018 uplifting the franchise-- please identify which players that were drafted in 2018 have exceeded expectations in year 2091. We heard from posters like you that "he nailed it" didn't we? SO if he did-- please identify which players in 2018 have exceeded expectation for this season coming from the 2018 draft. If you can't -- then we see what he's done with 2018 FA's and we see what's happened THIS year for the 2018 draft class- where is the "uplift?" The only way you can say the uplift is there is because "you say so." Can't you understand how "shocked" (sarcasm) we are that homer fans would claim there is an uptick for a team that went 5-11 to 2-10 as of right now?
Third-- OFC none of this is DG's fault, right? It's "all the coach." Yet who hired the coach? OFC we hear it's not DG to blame for the coach either. It's the owner. Just as we've heard on here that when he restructured Solder's contract for anyone that criticized we hear from some of you that it wasn't DG that restructured his contract someone else was to blame for that. In other words for some of you, it's not DG's fault. Someone else is always to blame. His 2018 FA's and draft picks any that don't pan out-- it's the other guy- not DG. He "tried" and he fights with the media - and that combination is good enough for some of you.
Basically this hack is saying that teams should never improve. The quality of a team is often dependent on the quality of its backups.
In today' world of QBs we select a slightly more mobile Eli Manning clone that fumbles like him. Its called dual-threat, maybe the org should add that to their football vocabulary.
Slightly more mobile? Slightly?
Yet people on here want to defend Gettleman and blame everything on everyone else. It's not just his fault, but he's as responsible as anyone, and he needs to be out of a job in January as a result.
There's zero reason to be optimistic about the direction this team is heading right now.
Yet people on here want to defend Gettleman and blame everything on everyone else. It's not just his fault, but he's as responsible as anyone, and he needs to be out of a job in January as a result.
There's zero reason to be optimistic about the direction this team is heading right now.
This sums it.+1
Or it's more like some posters prefer to bury their heads in the sand and seem to be okay with a 2-10 football team? More than likely 3 straight years of top 6 or better draft picks? ANd without a huge hit in 2020 probably another year of crummy football?
In case you hasn't realized the rest of the entire football league - the herd - has been stampeding over us for many years. I'm not sure you get that. Or maybe you are okay with it?????
For those who think Gettleman has done well or average, kindly state what that criteria for success is for you. I'll state mine. Given a change in management because of cause, in a 3 year period the operation should be markedly better. In sports that means in the hunt for the playoffs.
Now back to the simple questions;
- does that manager foresee and anticipate issues above the rate of competition
- does that manager win more than lose on transactions
- does that manager show wisdom with investments, save and spend at the right times
- does that manager make a habit of holding him/herself accountable
- is that manager a destination for talented staff
It might be the herd, but I don't see much by way of cogent measurements and evidence to support success from the stragglers.
I'm firm on the record, the head coach and manager should be given three years.
Yet people on here want to defend Gettleman and blame everything on everyone else. It's not just his fault, but he's as responsible as anyone, and he needs to be out of a job in January as a result.
There's zero reason to be optimistic about the direction this team is heading right now.
cannot agree more.
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dumb trade.
Uh, Pats traded a 2nd for a WR who is hurt and been a non factor. And he's older and making good money.
For instance, that's worse.
The pats are already in the playoffs. Are you serious? You can take liberties with your picks when you're trying to win a championship. When you're tanking (purposely or not) YOU DONT TRADE DRAFT PICKS FOR A FREE AGENT. Its insanely idiotic.
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In comment 14706892 bw in dc said:
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dumb trade.
Uh, Pats traded a 2nd for a WR who is hurt and been a non factor. And he's older and making good money.
For instance, that's worse.
The pats are already in the playoffs. Are you serious? You can take liberties with your picks when you're trying to win a championship. When you're tanking (purposely or not) YOU DONT TRADE DRAFT PICKS FOR A FREE AGENT. Its insanely idiotic.
Some of these DG supporters are straight up dumb.. they would eventually argue that DG is better GM because he is able to get us the number 1 pick while that dumbass BB is getting the last pick in every round..
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many are now realizing this org is out of touch with today's NFL, after NO RESULTS since 2011. One season out of that sequence (easy schedule, good defense, imbecile wide receiver that shows up to play game not ready to play).
In today' world of QBs we select a slightly more mobile Eli Manning clone that fumbles like him. Its called dual-threat, maybe the org should add that to their football vocabulary.
Slightly more mobile? Slightly?
I am comparing his mobility to a typical dual threat QB that is giving the league problems and Jones is not one of them. Eventually he will slow down like Eli and now they likely do not want him moving too much with the ball security issues.
Parkland grad Lombardo has gone from being a fan to working at the Fanatic - ( New Window )
This is a young roster and will get a little younger next year when some vets are cut or not RE-signed.
I think Williams is a good addition and while sacks are great, stopping the run and providing pressure are just as important in team defense.
Many are judging DG but not taking into account Mara’s desire to keep Eli around and for the GM will need to work around that situation. Add OBJ to the mix in a tough decision to sign and then trade him. Shurmur couldn’t handle OBJ, and I think the owners got tired of his act. DG didn’t the best he could and got a player and 2 picks.
Our team will be much better next year. The 3rd rounder won’t be missed.
I do think that when you first come in with a whole new coaching, FA and draft cycles months away...and the franchise has no franchise players and a QB transition upon it...I could see 4 unless its a disaster.
In a league with an average player tenure of 3.8 years and under 25% success rate for draft slots from midway through the 3rd round on down and only 7 slots per draft...needing immediate upgrades at the top 3-5 positions inclines me to 4 unless the top 2 per draft and the HC selection are all misses. All the rest are going to be less than 50% probability decisions anywhere in the league.
Like American Presidents and CEO's if they get 2 out of 3 of the biggest decisions of the time ( not the same as their top 3 priorities) right - then their tenure is likely to be endlessly debatable depending on what tribe you cling to...but not really the worst and clearly not the best
To me, the SB decision now looks like a mis-allocation ( not a bad pick but an out of sequence decision) and the coach is
a disaster that wont hurt in the long run ( team is young enough to recover) if we get him out and replaced with a better than average choice.
I think the performance evaluation cycle for coaches is 2 years and the metrics are how hard they play, how many players improve and if the HC game day decisions lost more than 2 games a season for 2 years running.
Reasonable but sharp performance expectations is the key during this period.
At this point with DG I would make sure this FA offseason did not contain the degrees of freedom he used to have on contract positions, terms and size limits.
Shooting for the moon to get one or two "announcements" would be my fear. Im in favor of the FA tier below the most costly and im in favor of short years even if the tradeoff is short high guarantees. We need to move on if we need to move on. Shorten our commitments at this time.
The biggest GM decision factor? Who is very likely available and are they highly likely to be better or more of the same. Its great to call for change but in a 50% sport the risk assessment matters.
To me the HC has to go because I just don't believe the players will follow him next year...risking a repeat of the terrible culture under second year McAdoo.
In the case of the HC the risk of not replacing him is greater than the risk of a less than perfect coach.
For all I know, the owners like this GM to be the fall guy of shit period where patience was always going to be required. They are up for enough adverse opinion without having to want to absorb all of it. Notice if they chose another one who still cant improve the product fast enough for a bad decade...they bring all the blame closer and closer
That's more of an indictment of Hill than praise for LW. Players like LW are not that difficult to find, good against the run, meh against the pass and no sacks, for a team desperate for pas rush help it just made zero sense. The idea of franchise tagging or signing this guy to a big$ long term contract is the kind of move that keeps bad franchises in cap difficulty. Remember this guy is in his contract year so you're seeing the absolute best he can muster, I doubt you'll see that after the giants foolishly sign him to big bucks.
Do they win one or two per year that were not expected?
In other words was the team so well prepared and had enough of the right games plans that they won 1-2 that were upsets?
I cant remember any upsets under PS. None. No breakthrough plans or schemes. Last HC/DC/OC I remember surprising a better team was Spags and under TC
Totally agree....I’m pretty sure astute Giant fans aren’t quoting Lombardo and Leonard for sure.
I can see how this fan base fell for “Jabril Peppers is like getting a first rounder”
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How can anyone say this is stupid? You do realize he was a top 10 coming out of college. You also realize talented big men on the DL are a commodity to cherish.
I can see how this fan base fell for “Jabril Peppers is like getting a first rounder”
The idea that Giants fans are a smart fan base is a farce.
Because he didn't trade a 3rd for Williams. He traded a 3rd for 7 games from Williams on a team nowhere close to the playoffs. This is a move you make if you are trying to close the gap on other playoff teams.
BBIer's seem to think that Williams won't go somewhere else because he's here already, like it's hard for a millionaire to move, or find a deli with his favorite sandwich or whatever. A team shows Williams more money, he's gone and we lost a draft pick. On a team that needs draft picks to rebuild a roster.