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If the NYG finish with the Number 1 Pick in the Draft, do we

No Where Man : 12/8/2019 9:33 pm
(1) Draft Chase Young
(2) Draft a different player, or
(3) Trade down
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RE: Why would you pass on the best player in the draft  
Jimmy Googs : 12/9/2019 6:47 am : link
In comment 14708047 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
If he is there?

Another long off season ahead....


Well maybe three really good players is better than having the best player...
RE: As a prospect, how much better is Chase Young than Josh Allen?  
Jimmy Googs : 12/9/2019 6:51 am : link
In comment 14708045 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
The Giants passed on Allen at #6 for a controversial QB prospect who was touched by the hand of Cutcliffe. Allen was the seventh pick. I understand PFF grade Allen and Young in the same neighborhood, with Young a whisker higher. That's PFF, so take it FWIW. Are we really talking about a different level here? Based on the usual diet of cherry-picked YouTube highlights, Young shows a wider variety of moves, but are his tools markedly superior?

Not a rhetorical question. I have no opinion either way. I just think a team as bad as the Giants has to seriously consider adding extra picks, unless the blue-chipper on the board is a truly transformative talent.


I saw Young play against Wisconsin and he had a big day. Then watched him play Michigan and he was pretty quiet.

Seems like the word is he’ll win plenty of awards.

And my vote is to get more than one player...desperate all over this roster.
Not looking at players  
idiotsavant : 12/9/2019 7:04 am : link
But by trading down and up you might get from front to back:

Epensa (or 2nd best edge + sized)
Simmons (or best ilb that truly pass defends)
Delpit (or best safety that can also play deep)

RE: As a prospect, how much better is Chase Young than Josh Allen?  
section125 : 12/9/2019 7:08 am : link
In comment 14708045 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
The Giants passed on Allen at #6 for a controversial QB prospect who was touched by the hand of Cutcliffe. Allen was the seventh pick. I understand PFF grade Allen and Young in the same neighborhood, with Young a whisker higher. That's PFF, so take it FWIW. Are we really talking about a different level here? Based on the usual diet of cherry-picked YouTube highlights, Young shows a wider variety of moves, but are his tools markedly superior?

Not a rhetorical question. I have no opinion either way. I just think a team as bad as the Giants has to seriously consider adding extra picks, unless the blue-chipper on the board is a truly transformative talent.


FWIW, we all should know that DG wanted Allen last year, badly. He also heard rumors that Jones would be taken between 7-16. QB is the more important position...so here we are.

I think all indicators are that Chase Young would be his pick, if he was still available, based on DGs wanting Allen last year.

Now for all the trade down folks who think more is better than one blue chipper - as comparison the Giants got Lawrence and then Baker in the 1st in addition to Jones. DLaw appears to be worth #17 but Baker has been a disappointment.
So trading with Miami - would getting the #3 or #4 plus an additional 1st rnd at about number 15 or at 25 be worth missing out on Young? I'm presuming the Giants at #1 or #2. I'd agree that being able to get both Young and the #15 is a no brainer. I'm assuming that both Cincy and Miami want QBs...so that would leave Young at #3.
What if Cincy takes Burrows at #1 and Miami wants to trade from #3 to #2? Do you chance that they want a QB and not Young? Would they be able to tell the Giants that they want a QB, but on the sly take Young? Can Gettleman base the trade on Miami guaranteeing that they are taking a QB and not Young?
If we aren’t looking to take a QB, then “yes”  
Jimmy Googs : 12/9/2019 7:16 am : link
trading the pick to accumulate multiple players is the best course of action.

Of course it presumes you need to scout and draft well, but if you think the Giants are at a disadvantage in this aspect then who’s advice are you relying on to take Young...Mel Kiper?
If the pecking order is NYG, CIN, MIA -  
Diver_Down : 12/9/2019 7:18 am : link
there is a greater difference in draft value to move from 3 to 1 instead of 2 to 1. CIN would only have to swap picks and give up their 2nd (we would have to yield a 4th or later to balance the scale). MIA would have to swap picks and give up the #19 and #23 (we would have to yield a late rounder to balance the scale).

I think the Bengals are taking a QB whether they are 1 or 2. The Red Rifle is only under contract for 1 year remaining and the organization has shown that he is no longer their guy. I don't see them taking Young. They could opt to trade down if they can't get #1 pick and still get their QB to say Washington.

Miami will take a QB. They were in love with Tua, but his injury and past injuries might be leaving them doubt. Them having their choice at #1 would be ideal for us to move to #3 while also getting #19 and #23.
RE: If the pecking order is NYG, CIN, MIA -  
Chocco : 12/9/2019 7:25 am : link
In comment 14708058 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
there is a greater difference in draft value to move from 3 to 1 instead of 2 to 1. CIN would only have to swap picks and give up their 2nd (we would have to yield a 4th or later to balance the scale). MIA would have to swap picks and give up the #19 and #23 (we would have to yield a late rounder to balance the scale).
this would be the best scenario for the Giants. Could create a bit of a bidding war between Miami and Cinci. Particularly if they feel they may lose their franchise QB. Then you could throw draft charts out the window.
RE: RE: If the pecking order is NYG, CIN, MIA -  
Diver_Down : 12/9/2019 7:32 am : link
In comment 14708061 Chocco said:
Quote:
In comment 14708058 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


there is a greater difference in draft value to move from 3 to 1 instead of 2 to 1. CIN would only have to swap picks and give up their 2nd (we would have to yield a 4th or later to balance the scale). MIA would have to swap picks and give up the #19 and #23 (we would have to yield a late rounder to balance the scale).


this would be the best scenario for the Giants. Could create a bit of a bidding war between Miami and Cinci. Particularly if they feel they may lose their franchise QB. Then you could throw draft charts out the window.


Exactly. When it comes to getting your choice of QBs, we have seen in the past that draft charts are a guideline but there is always an overpay. We may not have to "tip the scales" in either scenario.

Ideally, Miami makes the trade to #1 for their 3 first rounders. If they insist on keeping their later 1st, then they must either give up next year's #1 (which most likely is way better than #23) or surrender a bounty of 2nd and 3rd rounders.
RE: RE: Why would you pass on the best player in the draft  
ZogZerg : 12/9/2019 7:46 am : link
In comment 14708048 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14708047 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


If he is there?

Another long off season ahead....



Well maybe three really good players is better than having the best player...


Yeah, Just like Buffalo was going to trade a ton of picks to move up to #2 for a QB. BBI dream land.
What they should do if they're number one is  
bigbluescot : 12/9/2019 7:48 am : link
come out with a very public statement that their phones are on and they're ready to listen to offers. Even if that's just to try to force the Bengals or Miami (whoever's 2nd) into blinking and trading with us.
RE: Why would you pass on the best player in the draft  
jvm52106 : 12/9/2019 8:35 am : link
In comment 14708047 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
If he is there?

Another long off season ahead....


One reason you do that is this, Young is best defensive player but a QB is the best player in the draft. You either select a guy at #1 who is a QB or the final piece to a puzzle (offensively or defensively) or, if a single player is not the final piece you trade down some for a bundle of picks.

1981 the Giants drafted LT #2. BUt, we had Carson, Van Pelt, Kelley, Jeter, Martin etc. already on defense. We had a young QB we drafted in the first round 2 drafts prior so he was a build around guy at that point. LT was the finishing touches on a defense that just needed one big attraction- pass rusher/ game changer.

2019 (2020 draft)- we have holes everywhere on defense. We have a young QB to build around but we need Oline, TE and WR help as well.

If we end up at #1, we take a deal with a team wanting Burrow (within top 5) and we get multiple 2020 and 2021 draft picks.
If we are no 1.....  
Spirit of '86 : 12/9/2019 9:08 am : link
Take Burrow and trade Jones to Cinny or Miami for their pick. I watched Young in Michigan and Wisconsin games. I do not see the enthusiasm for him. Burrow on the other hand looks great.
RE: If we are no 1.....  
Josh in the City : 12/9/2019 9:11 am : link
In comment 14708190 Spirit of '86 said:
Quote:
Take Burrow and trade Jones to Cinny or Miami for their pick. I watched Young in Michigan and Wisconsin games. I do not see the enthusiasm for him. Burrow on the other hand looks great.

LOL...0% chance anyone trades a top 5 pick for Daniel Jones.
4) Do whatever makes the least sense  
mikeinbloomfield : 12/9/2019 9:19 am : link
If we pick two or three, I worry that Gettleman will take some shiny object and NOT trade down when this team has holes in every area.

He doesn't trade down. He has set aside one of the more useful tools teams have in acquiring players. The draft is a crap shoot. The only way to win is have more chances.
Did someone just describe LT  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/9/2019 9:30 am : link
as "the finishing touch"?

Holy fuck!

Yeah, the word "touch" can't get with a 100 square miles of LT...
RE: Did someone just describe LT  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/9/2019 9:37 am : link
In comment 14708229 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
as "the finishing touch"?

Holy fuck!

Yeah, the word "touch" can't get with a 100 square miles of LT...


Not to mention after drafting LT in '81, they drafted Terry Kinard and Leonard Marshall in the 1st and second rounds in '83, and then two more excellent LBs, Carl Banks and Gary Reasons, in the 1st and 4th rounds in '84.

Taylor was drafted because he was the BPA, period.
Here's what we need for the overall #1.  
since1925 : 12/9/2019 10:39 am : link
2020 first rounder (top ten).
2020 second rounder.
2021 first rounder.

That should be provide enough talent around Jones, who will not be ready to win before 2021.
RE: RE: Or just take Burrow and trade Jones  
Go Terps : 12/9/2019 11:47 am : link
In comment 14708040 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14707984 Go Terps said:


Quote:


.



#1) Why would you take a one year wonder? Haskins was a 1 year wonder too and I think with better numbers. Burrows was a nobody last year. Was not even near anybody's radar, forget on it.

#2) Just what would you get for Jones? Why would you dump Jones now? Except for his fumbling(a curable disease) what is better in Burrows?


1. Burrow is nothing like Haskins. In Burrow I see an accurate passer with great feet and excellent pocket awareness who gets through his reads quickly. Doesn't have a cannon, but makes up for it by getting the ball on time and being clean mechanically. He's as clean as you could want a QB prospect to be, and by all accounts has top intangibles.

2. I'm not looking to "dump" Jones. Having the #1 pick overall (if we have it) is a rare opportunity...if there's a QB there that represents an upgrade I'm doing it every time. And to me, Burrow is a clear upgrade over what Jones brings. As for what we'd get for Jones, I don't know. I imagine a lot of that would depend on timing...the sooner the trade is made the better. I don't discount the possibility of getting a first round pick.

It's all academic unless Gettleman is fired. If we finish 2-14, secure the top pick, and Gettleman is fired, I think this is a real possibility.
GoTerps,  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/9/2019 11:52 am : link
We both know Gettleman is going nowhere. Mara will do another half assed routine where the coaching staff is sent packing, but Gettleman is brought back.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2019 11:53 am : link
Quote:
Having the #1 pick overall (if we have it) is a rare opportunity


Given the way the Giants are run, it might not be.

(Kidding. Sort of.)
That's true  
Go Terps : 12/9/2019 11:55 am : link
Gettleman steered the ship from the #2 pick overall to the #1 pick overall, and his reward will be to keep his job. Maybe he'll have the opportunity to pass on Trevor Lawrence next year because we already have Jones.
RE: Ideally we trade it...  
Thegratefulhead : 12/9/2019 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14707970 bw in dc said:
Quote:
But it's certainly not hard to picture Resume setting the record for fastest pick submitted.

And in the post-draft interview:

"When I saw Young play, I saw a professional pass rusher..."
If DG is still the GM we are drafting Chase Young. This is the home of LT. We are not going to pass on Chase Young, we are not going to get cute and trade down. We need pass rush more than anything. I would not Criticize ANY team for drafting Young number 1. I think he is the best player in college football. I do not feel it is close.
I just watched this PFT clip from NBC Sports  
Go Terps : 12/9/2019 12:35 pm : link
They discuss the possibility of Shurmur (and possibly Gettleman) being fired, and whether the successor(s) could want to go in a different direction at quarterback.

Peter King:

"I think if you don't believe in Daniel Jones you're probably not going to get the second interview."

If you're John Mara you can't take that approach when you're talking about hiring a GM and/or head coach after going (possibly) 33-59 the last 6 seasons. The processes governing the Giants have been deeply flawed, including the processes that led to drafting Jones. Whether or not Jones is the QB going forward can't be Mara's decision if he's truly interested in fixing things.

The thought that we might turn away candidates for Daniel Jones is extremely disquieting.
Link - ( New Window )
Terps  
figgy2989 : 12/9/2019 12:41 pm : link
Did you submit your resume to the Giants yet?
RE: RE: Ideally we trade it...  
bw in dc : 12/9/2019 12:42 pm : link
In comment 14708614 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 14707970 bw in dc said:


Quote:


But it's certainly not hard to picture Resume setting the record for fastest pick submitted.

And in the post-draft interview:

"When I saw Young play, I saw a professional pass rusher..."

If DG is still the GM we are drafting Chase Young. This is the home of LT. We are not going to pass on Chase Young, we are not going to get cute and trade down. We need pass rush more than anything. I would not Criticize ANY team for drafting Young number 1. I think he is the best player in college football. I do not feel it is close.


I get it. Taking Young isn't a bad idea.

But I think it's worth asking if it's the best idea.

If we could, theoretically, parlay that pick into more future first and second rounders, because there is precedence for a huge bounty in return, then I think it's worth taking that listening tour...
RE: Terps  
Go Terps : 12/9/2019 12:43 pm : link
In comment 14708649 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
Did you submit your resume to the Giants yet?


You wish.
RE: I just watched this PFT clip from NBC Sports  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2019 12:45 pm : link
In comment 14708642 Go Terps said:
Quote:
They discuss the possibility of Shurmur (and possibly Gettleman) being fired, and whether the successor(s) could want to go in a different direction at quarterback.

Peter King:

"I think if you don't believe in Daniel Jones you're probably not going to get the second interview."

If you're John Mara you can't take that approach when you're talking about hiring a GM and/or head coach after going (possibly) 33-59 the last 6 seasons. The processes governing the Giants have been deeply flawed, including the processes that led to drafting Jones. Whether or not Jones is the QB going forward can't be Mara's decision if he's truly interested in fixing things.

The thought that we might turn away candidates for Daniel Jones is extremely disquieting. Link - ( New Window )


I like Jones a lot, I'm very excited to have him. But you can't box your people in. Mara isn't the person qualified to make that analysis on Jones.
You trade with the Dolphins or the Raiders  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 12/9/2019 12:45 pm : link
and accumulate a shit ton of picks. I think they hold 11 or so in the first 96 picks?

I want a Chase Young. I want Joe Burrow. This team has a hole at every single position not named RB and maybe DT/NG. Every single one.

TRADE DOWN
RE: RE: RE: Or just take Burrow and trade Jones  
Kyle in NY : 12/9/2019 12:50 pm : link
In comment 14708558 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14708040 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14707984 Go Terps said:


Quote:


.



#1) Why would you take a one year wonder? Haskins was a 1 year wonder too and I think with better numbers. Burrows was a nobody last year. Was not even near anybody's radar, forget on it.

#2) Just what would you get for Jones? Why would you dump Jones now? Except for his fumbling(a curable disease) what is better in Burrows?



1. Burrow is nothing like Haskins. In Burrow I see an accurate passer with great feet and excellent pocket awareness who gets through his reads quickly. Doesn't have a cannon, but makes up for it by getting the ball on time and being clean mechanically. He's as clean as you could want a QB prospect to be, and by all accounts has top intangibles.

2. I'm not looking to "dump" Jones. Having the #1 pick overall (if we have it) is a rare opportunity...if there's a QB there that represents an upgrade I'm doing it every time. And to me, Burrow is a clear upgrade over what Jones brings. As for what we'd get for Jones, I don't know. I imagine a lot of that would depend on timing...the sooner the trade is made the better. I don't discount the possibility of getting a first round pick.

It's all academic unless Gettleman is fired. If we finish 2-14, secure the top pick, and Gettleman is fired, I think this is a real possibility.


I share your affinity for Burrow, but you don't see most of those same qualities in Jones? I actually think they have a lot of similarities with the way you described him. Athleticism, feet, intangibles, ball placement, etc.

I would guess that the pocket awareness is where you'd have some issues, given the fumbling problems he's had. But we saw early on especially that he absolutely had the feet and ability to maneuver in the pocket. The complete collapse of the offensive line since then I think has potentially created some bad habits that will need to be corrected. Plus he's being coaches by absolute losers. But we saw the ability there at times.

I see the point you make that all options should be on the table. And (hopefully) a new coach/GM would have that option available to them. But I think we've seen enough flashes from Jones to suggest that passing on the opportunity to draft the elite pass rusher we desperately need would not be the best use of the pick.

I've been a bit surprised to see your lukewarm opinion on Jones lately. I think he's handled a shitty situation about as well as possible.
RE: I just watched this PFT clip from NBC Sports  
ron mexico : 12/9/2019 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14708642 Go Terps said:
Quote:
They discuss the possibility of Shurmur (and possibly Gettleman) being fired, and whether the successor(s) could want to go in a different direction at quarterback.

Peter King:

"I think if you don't believe in Daniel Jones you're probably not going to get the second interview."

If you're John Mara you can't take that approach when you're talking about hiring a GM and/or head coach after going (possibly) 33-59 the last 6 seasons. The processes governing the Giants have been deeply flawed, including the processes that led to drafting Jones. Whether or not Jones is the QB going forward can't be Mara's decision if he's truly interested in fixing things.

The thought that we might turn away candidates for Daniel Jones is extremely disquieting. Link - ( New Window )


The Giants have made numerous mistakes putting the interests of one position over the interests of the rest of the team, I hope they don’t do it again.
If Cinci or Miami is #2 you draft  
Bubba : 12/9/2019 1:01 pm : link
Burrow trade him to the #2 team for their 1st and their 2nd.
Then draft Young with their 1st. Simple.
RE: RE: RE: Ideally we trade it...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 12/9/2019 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14708650 bw in dc said:
Quote:


I get it. Taking Young isn't a bad idea.

But I think it's worth asking if it's the best idea.

If we could, theoretically, parlay that pick into more future first and second rounders, because there is precedence for a huge bounty in return, then I think it's worth taking that listening tour...


The team would be negligent if they didn't take stock of any offers. However, when the player is special, I think you have to take the player. Young is special. The Niners could've traded down for more picks, but took Nick Bosa instead. It's very early, but I doubt they regret that move.

As I said in another thread, I'd probably look askance at anyone who doesn't believe in Daniel Jones. I'm okay with the Giants potentially brushing aside some HC/GM candidates because of that.
If Cinci or Miami is #2 you draft  
Bubba : 12/9/2019 1:02 pm : link
Burrow trade him to the #2 team for their 1st and their 2nd.
Then draft Young with their 1st. Simple.
Trading down  
Knineteen : 12/9/2019 1:03 pm : link
is only possible with a partner. Franchises don't decided to simply "trade down" as an ultimate solution.

Draft talk is so idiotic and never-ending.
Kyle  
Go Terps : 12/9/2019 1:03 pm : link
I like Jones and I sympathize with his situation, but the truth is he hasn't elevated the team even a little bit. There are just too many negative plays. It's like watching Eli all over again - we lived with it with Eli because he came up massive in two Super Bowl runs, but the odds that Jones has anything like that in him are practically zero.

By the Chicago game he was bailing on a lot of throws and failing to step up into the pocket. I know the offensive line sucks, but he's not doing anything to help make their jobs easier. The Kahlil Mack strip sack, for example, is completely on Jones...most people blamed Solder for it, but Solder isn't supposed to be protecting a QB that's 9 yards behind the line of scrimmage.

I'm not kicking dirt on Jones. He's a rookie on a poorly constructed and poorly coached team. I just don't see him elevating anyone around him. Eli was pulled for general ineffectiveness - the offense was struggling to even get to 20 points. Well with Jones that hasn't improved. He's only at 6.4 YPA and the team is scoring 19 points a game.

We're in a really bad spot here.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Ideally we trade it...  
bw in dc : 12/9/2019 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14708678 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14708650 bw in dc said:


Quote:




I get it. Taking Young isn't a bad idea.

But I think it's worth asking if it's the best idea.

If we could, theoretically, parlay that pick into more future first and second rounders, because there is precedence for a huge bounty in return, then I think it's worth taking that listening tour...



The team would be negligent if they didn't take stock of any offers. However, when the player is special, I think you have to take the player. Young is special. The Niners could've traded down for more picks, but took Nick Bosa instead. It's very early, but I doubt they regret that move.

As I said in another thread, I'd probably look askance at anyone who doesn't believe in Daniel Jones. I'm okay with the Giants potentially brushing aside some HC/GM candidates because of that.


Is Young special enough to pass on an RG3 type deal - three first rounders and a second rounder?

And that was for the Skins to move up to the #2 slot. It could be more if we have the #1 slot.

That's a lot of draft capital...
Tell you what  
Anakim : 12/9/2019 1:11 pm : link
If you want an ER, Yetur Gross-Matos is a fantastic one. He's severely underrated. I think he's a top-10 player in this class.
All fair points  
Kyle in NY : 12/9/2019 1:19 pm : link
I still think I've seen enough in the good moments to want to stick with him though, and that a better coach could get a lot out of him and correct some of those bad habits. I look at how Shannahan has elevated Garropolo, what McVay has done for Goff in their good moments, how Roman has gotten the absolute most out of Lamar (not taking anything away from Lamar himself), and can't help but wonder what could be if we could nail the coaching hire, given the reasonable offensive talent in place already. Shurmur consistently finds ways to get the least out of the talent available to him.

And as I watch the 49ers I see how a player like Bosa has helped transform their defense, and I want one of our own. Chase Young is in that category. I don't think the difference in Burrow and Jones is enough to justify passing up a game wrecker like that. But it's an interesting discussion. I think we need to honestly assess every part of the organization
RE: Tell you what  
AcidTest : 12/9/2019 1:21 pm : link
In comment 14708689 Anakim said:
Quote:
If you want an ER, Yetur Gross-Matos is a fantastic one. He's severely underrated. I think he's a top-10 player in this class.


Agreed. Seen him several times. He's excellent.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Ideally we trade it...  
AcidTest : 12/9/2019 1:22 pm : link
In comment 14708688 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14708678 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


Quote:


In comment 14708650 bw in dc said:


Quote:




I get it. Taking Young isn't a bad idea.

But I think it's worth asking if it's the best idea.

If we could, theoretically, parlay that pick into more future first and second rounders, because there is precedence for a huge bounty in return, then I think it's worth taking that listening tour...



The team would be negligent if they didn't take stock of any offers. However, when the player is special, I think you have to take the player. Young is special. The Niners could've traded down for more picks, but took Nick Bosa instead. It's very early, but I doubt they regret that move.

As I said in another thread, I'd probably look askance at anyone who doesn't believe in Daniel Jones. I'm okay with the Giants potentially brushing aside some HC/GM candidates because of that.



Is Young special enough to pass on an RG3 type deal - three first rounders and a second rounder?

And that was for the Skins to move up to the #2 slot. It could be more if we have the #1 slot.

That's a lot of draft capital...


I would absolutely take that trade no matter who is on the board, even Young.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Ideally we trade it...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 12/9/2019 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14708688 bw in dc said:
Quote:


Is Young special enough to pass on an RG3 type deal - three first rounders and a second rounder?

And that was for the Skins to move up to the #2 slot. It could be more if we have the #1 slot.

That's a lot of draft capital...


One has to make this decision based on several factors, one of which is the quality of the individual prospect(s) you'd be bypassing. There's also the strength of the draft to consider, especially as it pertains to how far down you'd be moving.

Take the 2012 draft, for example. As much as I like Daniel Jones, RG3 was a better prospect and I probably take him and don't trade.

Take the 2016 draft, for example. I wouldn't take Wentz over Jones (as prospects), but I also wouldn't be interested in trading down so far that I can't reasonably get Joey Bosa or Jalen Ramsey.

The 2018 draft is more difficult. I truly believe Barkley was the best prospect in the draft. Let's say the Giants had the third pick in that draft (instead of #2) and Darnold and Barkley are the first 2 picks. I almost certainly trade down.

In this draft, the only 2 players I LOVE as top 5 picks are Young and Wirfs. If the Giants fuck up and win some games, I would strongly consider trading down.

"At the end of the day" (TM Antrel Rolle), it's as much about who you're passing up on as what you're getting in return. I'd prefer the known quantity of a current prospect to unknown future assets.
Terps the star of LSU"s offense  
BigBlueCane : 12/9/2019 2:04 pm : link
isn't Burrow who had very different numbers last year.

It's Joe Brady, LSU's "Passing game coordinator" who basically transformed LSU's offense into what it is.

Take him away and Burrow looks very different.
RE: Terps the star of LSU  
Go Terps : 12/9/2019 2:22 pm : link
In comment 14708782 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
isn't Burrow who had very different numbers last year.

It's Joe Brady, LSU's "Passing game coordinator" who basically transformed LSU's offense into what it is.

Take him away and Burrow looks very different.


A couple years ago bw in dc said Lamar Jackson may have been in part a product of Bobby Petrino's offense. My response was, "so then hire Petrino as the head coach".

My response would be the same here: if Burrow benefits greatly from Joe Brady, then hire Joe Brady as the head coach or the OC. Burrow is playing phenomenally well against the best that college football has to offer - those are the guys that are going to be populating the NFL over the next 5 years.

What do we have to lose? The Giants are at rock bottom here and shouldn't feel attached to anybody, including Daniel Jones. It might as well be an expansion team.
If DG stays as expected  
JonC : 12/9/2019 2:32 pm : link
I'd expect him to give Young a long, long look. If he doesn't like him, I'd look to trade down. Unfortunately, this draft is looking light on blue chips. The OTs and ERs are not looking worth a top 5 pick, imo.
RE: Terps the star of LSU  
bw in dc : 12/9/2019 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14708782 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
isn't Burrow who had very different numbers last year.

It's Joe Brady, LSU's "Passing game coordinator" who basically transformed LSU's offense into what it is.

Take him away and Burrow looks very different.


I've campaigned the last month or so for Brady to be a HC candidate in the NFL. LSU has gone from black and white TV to high definition on offense thanks to him. It's an unbelievable transformation.

But Burrow is still the trigger man. So he gets credit, too. They are loaded, btw, with receivers.
RE: Tell you what  
bw in dc : 12/9/2019 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14708689 Anakim said:
Quote:
If you want an ER, Yetur Gross-Matos is a fantastic one. He's severely underrated. I think he's a top-10 player in this class.


He's very good for PSU. I think he gets pushed around sometimes at the POA, but YGM's best years are ahead of him...
RE: As a prospect, how much better is Chase Young than Josh Allen?  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/9/2019 5:34 pm : link
In comment 14708045 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
The Giants passed on Allen at #6 for a controversial QB prospect who was touched by the hand of Cutcliffe. Allen was the seventh pick. I understand PFF grade Allen and Young in the same neighborhood, with Young a whisker higher. That's PFF, so take it FWIW. Are we really talking about a different level here? Based on the usual diet of cherry-picked YouTube highlights, Young shows a wider variety of moves, but are his tools markedly superior?

Not a rhetorical question. I have no opinion either way. I just think a team as bad as the Giants has to seriously consider adding extra picks, unless the blue-chipper on the board is a truly transformative talent.


I will gladly admit to watching more of Josh Allen on highlight edited reels, vs more if Chase Young in actual game action. I can't claim to have seriously studied either as a scout would do. But I rely on my "fast slicing" vision more than breaking down a player and logging notes from each play... I like Chase Young better.

Among Allen's highlights, I saw far too many plays when his brilliant looking sack, TFL, OR big hit and FF were plays where he was untouched. Mistakes by his opponent's or clever play design by his DC at Kentucky.

Young doesn't seem to get those opportunities because, at least this year, offenses don't let him go unnoticed and unblocked to the QB.

Offenses scheme to stop Young. Didn't see that with Allen..
RE: Terps the star of LSU  
Chocco : 12/9/2019 7:01 pm : link
In comment 14708782 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
isn't Burrow who had very different numbers last year.

It's Joe Brady, LSU's "Passing game coordinator" who basically transformed LSU's offense into what it is.

Take him away and Burrow looks very different.

I don't think that's fair to Burrow. Last year was his first year starting and it was in arguably the most difficult conference in the country. He got better as the year went on and was very impressive at the end of the season including monster games vs. Texas tech and Central Florida. This year he continued to progress to where he is now. I am sure Brady has helped him significantly, but I think you are selling Burrow short
RE: Terps the star of LSU  
Chocco : 12/9/2019 7:02 pm : link
In comment 14708782 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
isn't Burrow who had very different numbers last year.

It's Joe Brady, LSU's "Passing game coordinator" who basically transformed LSU's offense into what it is.

Take him away and Burrow looks very different.

I don't think that's fair to Burrow. Last year was his first year starting and it was in arguably the most difficult conference in the country. He got better as the year went on and was very impressive at the end of the season including monster games vs. Texas tech and Central Florida. This year he continued to progress to where he is now. I am sure Brady has helped him significantly, but I think you are selling Burrow short
(1)  
90.Cal : 12/9/2019 7:06 pm : link
Not even looking at (2) or (3)
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