they are NOT trading down. He has never done it in his career. He was give you some line about not getting cute and will take Young as opposed to maximizing the value of the pick to get what they need AND move to the appropriate slot (#2) to get Young.
The Giants will have enough fans pushing that message. They will have their paid media mouthpieces doing the same and that will be how it goes down.
for a massive haul. Obviously you hope to be able to position yourself to still get Chase Young great, but if someone bowls you over with some massive offer you take it and don't think twice. Still a long shot though even with cincy having 2 winnable games left (Miami and Cleveland).
Burrow is having a spectacular year, but you don't give up on a guy who is already showing himself to be a competent NFL QB for a guy off a single big year. You only do that for Andrew Luck, and Burrow is not in that stratosphere.
That's not specifically a Daniel Jones opinion either, I wouldn't give up Mayfield, Darnold, or Josh Allen for Burrow either if I was those teams.
is not trading down. He's never done so, and certainly won't from a top five pick. Although he would never say so explicitly, I think it's pretty clear he's philosophically opposed to trading down in any round. Reese was the same.
My point is not that he should trade down if Young is on the board, only that it's legitimate to ask why this team has permanently abandoned a viable draft strategy, especially when it has so many needs.
Who is the top prospect at Center, or Tight End? Â
is not trading down. He's never done so, and certainly won't from a top five pick. Although he would never say so explicitly, I think it's pretty clear he's philosophically opposed to trading down in any round. Reese was the same.
My point is not that he should trade down if Young is on the board, only that it's legitimate to ask why this team has permanently abandoned a viable draft strategy, especially when it has so many needs.
This is exactly why Gettleman cannot be the one making the pick. He is awful at asset management.
will be a Barkley redux in that everyone will know who we're taking by the end of the combine. DG will talk about a "gold jacket" player, "don't get cute," and how all he was offered was a hot dog, pretzel, and box of doughnuts for the #1 pick.
Then we'll pick at #33 or #34, and not again until the end of the third year. Like this year, we'll have to watch 65 or so players come off the board between the top of the second and the bottom of the third round.
for a massive haul. Obviously you hope to be able to position yourself to still get Chase Young great, but if someone bowls you over with some massive offer you take it and don't think twice. Still a long shot though even with cincy having 2 winnable games left (Miami and Cleveland).
Burrow is having a spectacular year, but you don't give up on a guy who is already showing himself to be a competent NFL QB for a guy off a single big year. You only do that for Andrew Luck, and Burrow is not in that stratosphere.
That's not specifically a Daniel Jones opinion either, I wouldn't give up Mayfield, Darnold, or Josh Allen for Burrow either if I was those teams.
Absolutely right, I would need to be blown away to pass on Young but it can’t hurt to listen. In a perfect world Cincy would trade up from the 2nd spot to prevent Miami or another team from doing so. The Giants would still get Young plus a 2nd round pick and possibly more.
trade down... if Chase Young really is the prize for you theres a lot to consider, it would open up the opportunity for another team (like the Redskins) to trade in front of us and snatch him from our grasp.
Now maybe you would rather say an Andrew Thomas and a nice haul of picks, and I totally get that. But if you're all in on Chase you need to realize you risk losing him in a trade down.
If we actually do get the #1 pick, manage to trade down, AND get Chase...
Naked backflips. Straight up.
But that is likely a dream.
RE: Listen to offers for teams wanting to move up for qb Â
for a massive haul. Obviously you hope to be able to position yourself to still get Chase Young great, but if someone bowls you over with some massive offer you take it and don't think twice. Still a long shot though even with cincy having 2 winnable games left (Miami and Cleveland).
Burrow is having a spectacular year, but you don't give up on a guy who is already showing himself to be a competent NFL QB for a guy off a single big year. You only do that for Andrew Luck, and Burrow is not in that stratosphere.
That's not specifically a Daniel Jones opinion either, I wouldn't give up Mayfield, Darnold, or Josh Allen for Burrow either if I was those teams.
Absolutely right, I would need to be blown away to pass on Young but it can’t hurt to listen. In a perfect world Cincy would trade up from the 2nd spot to prevent Miami or another team from doing so. The Giants would still get Young plus a 2nd round pick and possibly more.
Why would Cincinnati (if they are drafting #2) have to get involved in a fake bidding war when they can do all the intel on Gettleman’s draft history to know that he is not trading his pick because he’s never traded down?
If Cincinnati is at #2, they can feel very confident that the Giants won’t trade back to #3. So they can sit there and wait for Burrow as he will be there and they won’t buy any smokescreens the Giants may put up.
picks for the Giants 1st rounder, then tell the best offer to stand by. If Chase is available when the Giants select, take him. If he's taken beforehand, do the trade with the team standing by.
LOVE the BBI clowns saying DG wont even listen to offers. you sound stupid. of course he will listen but end of the day, he KNOWS he needs an impact defender or OT. i doubt he would do anything that risks losing the top at either spot.
my guess is IF we finish one, he listens to an offer from miami but they will be picking like 3-5 and we will lose young.
LOVE the BBI clowns saying DG wont even listen to offers. you sound stupid. of course he will listen but end of the day, he KNOWS he needs an impact defender or OT. i doubt he would do anything that risks losing the top at either spot.
my guess is IF we finish one, he listens to an offer from miami but they will be picking like 3-5 and we will lose young.
iu think young is our guy
If DG stays, which I think most would say is likely, I don’t see him trading down. If he didn’t trade down for Barkley, he ain’t trading down this time either. Young>Barkley
With a ten foot pole at 2, he got schooled by LSU speedy edge rushers and got exposed. Tristan Wirfs is better than Thomas IMHO. The only pick at 1 or 2 should be Chase Young and that’s it. Can’t have another OT who gets beat by speed rushers all day, if that’s the case then Keep Solder for the long term.
DG needs to still go about his business and create a board like everyone else but this time actually turn the phone on and work all the offers all the way up to draft day. And bring home a nice haul of picks so we can stair-step the improvement of this overall roster.
And the only thing you need to do to realize this is the correct strategy is compare the talent differential of the Eagles tonight versus our offensive and defensive units.
get some additional picks and take young. As awesome as young is if say the dolphins offered a hershel walker package that included their top ten pick this year, another one of their firsts this year and more picks you would have to consider it. But like many have pointed out gettleman is set in his ways
#1) Why would you take a one year wonder? Haskins was a 1 year wonder too and I think with better numbers. Burrows was a nobody last year. Was not even near anybody's radar, forget on it.
#2) Just what would you get for Jones? Why would you dump Jones now? Except for his fumbling(a curable disease) what is better in Burrows?
As a prospect, how much better is Chase Young than Josh Allen? Â
The Giants passed on Allen at #6 for a controversial QB prospect who was touched by the hand of Cutcliffe. Allen was the seventh pick. I understand PFF grade Allen and Young in the same neighborhood, with Young a whisker higher. That's PFF, so take it FWIW. Are we really talking about a different level here? Based on the usual diet of cherry-picked YouTube highlights, Young shows a wider variety of moves, but are his tools markedly superior?
Not a rhetorical question. I have no opinion either way. I just think a team as bad as the Giants has to seriously consider adding extra picks, unless the blue-chipper on the board is a truly transformative talent.
#1) Why would you take a one year wonder? Haskins was a 1 year wonder too and I think with better numbers. Burrows was a nobody last year. Was not even near anybody's radar, forget on it.
#2) Just what would you get for Jones? Why would you dump Jones now? Except for his fumbling(a curable disease) what is better in Burrows?
1) Burrow was playing very well at the end of last year. You should watch his bowl game highlights vs UCF. He took some big hits but didn't slow him down. Went into that game rooting against him(LSU), by the end was very impressed.
2) I don't see them trading Jones and I don't think they should draft Burrow. The only way I see that happening is if you bring in a new GM next year. If DG goes the next GM has no allegiance to Jones and may want to bring in his guy.
Personally I hope they keep Jones, trade back 1-2 spots, and draft Young.
If DG is drafting I would be surprised if he did anything other than drafting Young with the first pick.
Why would you pass on the best player in the draft Â
The Giants passed on Allen at #6 for a controversial QB prospect who was touched by the hand of Cutcliffe. Allen was the seventh pick. I understand PFF grade Allen and Young in the same neighborhood, with Young a whisker higher. That's PFF, so take it FWIW. Are we really talking about a different level here? Based on the usual diet of cherry-picked YouTube highlights, Young shows a wider variety of moves, but are his tools markedly superior?
Not a rhetorical question. I have no opinion either way. I just think a team as bad as the Giants has to seriously consider adding extra picks, unless the blue-chipper on the board is a truly transformative talent.
I saw Young play against Wisconsin and he had a big day. Then watched him play Michigan and he was pretty quiet.
Seems like the word is he’ll win plenty of awards.
And my vote is to get more than one player...desperate all over this roster.
The Giants passed on Allen at #6 for a controversial QB prospect who was touched by the hand of Cutcliffe. Allen was the seventh pick. I understand PFF grade Allen and Young in the same neighborhood, with Young a whisker higher. That's PFF, so take it FWIW. Are we really talking about a different level here? Based on the usual diet of cherry-picked YouTube highlights, Young shows a wider variety of moves, but are his tools markedly superior?
Not a rhetorical question. I have no opinion either way. I just think a team as bad as the Giants has to seriously consider adding extra picks, unless the blue-chipper on the board is a truly transformative talent.
FWIW, we all should know that DG wanted Allen last year, badly. He also heard rumors that Jones would be taken between 7-16. QB is the more important position...so here we are.
I think all indicators are that Chase Young would be his pick, if he was still available, based on DGs wanting Allen last year.
Now for all the trade down folks who think more is better than one blue chipper - as comparison the Giants got Lawrence and then Baker in the 1st in addition to Jones. DLaw appears to be worth #17 but Baker has been a disappointment.
So trading with Miami - would getting the #3 or #4 plus an additional 1st rnd at about number 15 or at 25 be worth missing out on Young? I'm presuming the Giants at #1 or #2. I'd agree that being able to get both Young and the #15 is a no brainer. I'm assuming that both Cincy and Miami want QBs...so that would leave Young at #3.
What if Cincy takes Burrows at #1 and Miami wants to trade from #3 to #2? Do you chance that they want a QB and not Young? Would they be able to tell the Giants that they want a QB, but on the sly take Young? Can Gettleman base the trade on Miami guaranteeing that they are taking a QB and not Young?
trading the pick to accumulate multiple players is the best course of action.
Of course it presumes you need to scout and draft well, but if you think the Giants are at a disadvantage in this aspect then who’s advice are you relying on to take Young...Mel Kiper?
there is a greater difference in draft value to move from 3 to 1 instead of 2 to 1. CIN would only have to swap picks and give up their 2nd (we would have to yield a 4th or later to balance the scale). MIA would have to swap picks and give up the #19 and #23 (we would have to yield a late rounder to balance the scale).
I think the Bengals are taking a QB whether they are 1 or 2. The Red Rifle is only under contract for 1 year remaining and the organization has shown that he is no longer their guy. I don't see them taking Young. They could opt to trade down if they can't get #1 pick and still get their QB to say Washington.
Miami will take a QB. They were in love with Tua, but his injury and past injuries might be leaving them doubt. Them having their choice at #1 would be ideal for us to move to #3 while also getting #19 and #23.
there is a greater difference in draft value to move from 3 to 1 instead of 2 to 1. CIN would only have to swap picks and give up their 2nd (we would have to yield a 4th or later to balance the scale). MIA would have to swap picks and give up the #19 and #23 (we would have to yield a late rounder to balance the scale).
this would be the best scenario for the Giants. Could create a bit of a bidding war between Miami and Cinci. Particularly if they feel they may lose their franchise QB. Then you could throw draft charts out the window.
there is a greater difference in draft value to move from 3 to 1 instead of 2 to 1. CIN would only have to swap picks and give up their 2nd (we would have to yield a 4th or later to balance the scale). MIA would have to swap picks and give up the #19 and #23 (we would have to yield a late rounder to balance the scale).
this would be the best scenario for the Giants. Could create a bit of a bidding war between Miami and Cinci. Particularly if they feel they may lose their franchise QB. Then you could throw draft charts out the window.
Exactly. When it comes to getting your choice of QBs, we have seen in the past that draft charts are a guideline but there is always an overpay. We may not have to "tip the scales" in either scenario.
Ideally, Miami makes the trade to #1 for their 3 first rounders. If they insist on keeping their later 1st, then they must either give up next year's #1 (which most likely is way better than #23) or surrender a bounty of 2nd and 3rd rounders.
RE: RE: Why would you pass on the best player in the draft Â
come out with a very public statement that their phones are on and they're ready to listen to offers. Even if that's just to try to force the Bengals or Miami (whoever's 2nd) into blinking and trading with us.
RE: Why would you pass on the best player in the draft Â
One reason you do that is this, Young is best defensive player but a QB is the best player in the draft. You either select a guy at #1 who is a QB or the final piece to a puzzle (offensively or defensively) or, if a single player is not the final piece you trade down some for a bundle of picks.
1981 the Giants drafted LT #2. BUt, we had Carson, Van Pelt, Kelley, Jeter, Martin etc. already on defense. We had a young QB we drafted in the first round 2 drafts prior so he was a build around guy at that point. LT was the finishing touches on a defense that just needed one big attraction- pass rusher/ game changer.
2019 (2020 draft)- we have holes everywhere on defense. We have a young QB to build around but we need Oline, TE and WR help as well.
If we end up at #1, we take a deal with a team wanting Burrow (within top 5) and we get multiple 2020 and 2021 draft picks.
Take Burrow and trade Jones to Cinny or Miami for their pick. I watched Young in Michigan and Wisconsin games. I do not see the enthusiasm for him. Burrow on the other hand looks great.
The Giants will have enough fans pushing that message. They will have their paid media mouthpieces doing the same and that will be how it goes down.
If a new GM is in place....all bets are off.
Burrow is having a spectacular year, but you don't give up on a guy who is already showing himself to be a competent NFL QB for a guy off a single big year. You only do that for Andrew Luck, and Burrow is not in that stratosphere.
That's not specifically a Daniel Jones opinion either, I wouldn't give up Mayfield, Darnold, or Josh Allen for Burrow either if I was those teams.
My point is not that he should trade down if Young is on the board, only that it's legitimate to ask why this team has permanently abandoned a viable draft strategy, especially when it has so many needs.
Another GM? Who knows. Could draft Burrow or trade down in addition to selecting Young.
My point is not that he should trade down if Young is on the board, only that it's legitimate to ask why this team has permanently abandoned a viable draft strategy, especially when it has so many needs.
This is exactly why Gettleman cannot be the one making the pick. He is awful at asset management.
Then we'll pick at #33 or #34, and not again until the end of the third year. Like this year, we'll have to watch 65 or so players come off the board between the top of the second and the bottom of the third round.
If Miami is 3rd....maybe....leverage them....and hope they both go Qb......but risky.....again,
The Giants will just draft Chase.....and not listen to offers
Burrow is having a spectacular year, but you don't give up on a guy who is already showing himself to be a competent NFL QB for a guy off a single big year. You only do that for Andrew Luck, and Burrow is not in that stratosphere.
That's not specifically a Daniel Jones opinion either, I wouldn't give up Mayfield, Darnold, or Josh Allen for Burrow either if I was those teams.
Absolutely right, I would need to be blown away to pass on Young but it can’t hurt to listen. In a perfect world Cincy would trade up from the 2nd spot to prevent Miami or another team from doing so. The Giants would still get Young plus a 2nd round pick and possibly more.
Now maybe you would rather say an Andrew Thomas and a nice haul of picks, and I totally get that. But if you're all in on Chase you need to realize you risk losing him in a trade down.
If we actually do get the #1 pick, manage to trade down, AND get Chase...
Naked backflips. Straight up.
But that is likely a dream.
I don't think we trade down. If we do, it will likely be for a spot that is out of reach for Young.
Won't happen. Cindy will know Gettleman is bluffing, because he wouldn't possibly trade down to Miani's spot.
And in the post-draft interview:
"When I saw Young play, I saw a professional pass rusher..."
Quote:
for a massive haul. Obviously you hope to be able to position yourself to still get Chase Young great, but if someone bowls you over with some massive offer you take it and don't think twice. Still a long shot though even with cincy having 2 winnable games left (Miami and Cleveland).
Burrow is having a spectacular year, but you don't give up on a guy who is already showing himself to be a competent NFL QB for a guy off a single big year. You only do that for Andrew Luck, and Burrow is not in that stratosphere.
That's not specifically a Daniel Jones opinion either, I wouldn't give up Mayfield, Darnold, or Josh Allen for Burrow either if I was those teams.
Absolutely right, I would need to be blown away to pass on Young but it can’t hurt to listen. In a perfect world Cincy would trade up from the 2nd spot to prevent Miami or another team from doing so. The Giants would still get Young plus a 2nd round pick and possibly more.
Why would Cincinnati (if they are drafting #2) have to get involved in a fake bidding war when they can do all the intel on Gettleman’s draft history to know that he is not trading his pick because he’s never traded down?
If Cincinnati is at #2, they can feel very confident that the Giants won’t trade back to #3. So they can sit there and wait for Burrow as he will be there and they won’t buy any smokescreens the Giants may put up.
If we could do the king's ransom approach, and it works, I seriously root for another catastrophe in 2020 so we can possibly draft Lawrence... ;)
my guess is IF we finish one, he listens to an offer from miami but they will be picking like 3-5 and we will lose young.
iu think young is our guy
my guess is IF we finish one, he listens to an offer from miami but they will be picking like 3-5 and we will lose young.
iu think young is our guy
If DG stays, which I think most would say is likely, I don’t see him trading down. If he didn’t trade down for Barkley, he ain’t trading down this time either. Young>Barkley
This is the optimum scenario
And the only thing you need to do to realize this is the correct strategy is compare the talent differential of the Eagles tonight versus our offensive and defensive units.
And they might not even be a playoff team...
#1) Why would you take a one year wonder? Haskins was a 1 year wonder too and I think with better numbers. Burrows was a nobody last year. Was not even near anybody's radar, forget on it.
#2) Just what would you get for Jones? Why would you dump Jones now? Except for his fumbling(a curable disease) what is better in Burrows?
Not a rhetorical question. I have no opinion either way. I just think a team as bad as the Giants has to seriously consider adding extra picks, unless the blue-chipper on the board is a truly transformative talent.
Quote:
.
#1) Why would you take a one year wonder? Haskins was a 1 year wonder too and I think with better numbers. Burrows was a nobody last year. Was not even near anybody's radar, forget on it.
#2) Just what would you get for Jones? Why would you dump Jones now? Except for his fumbling(a curable disease) what is better in Burrows?
1) Burrow was playing very well at the end of last year. You should watch his bowl game highlights vs UCF. He took some big hits but didn't slow him down. Went into that game rooting against him(LSU), by the end was very impressed.
2) I don't see them trading Jones and I don't think they should draft Burrow. The only way I see that happening is if you bring in a new GM next year. If DG goes the next GM has no allegiance to Jones and may want to bring in his guy.
Personally I hope they keep Jones, trade back 1-2 spots, and draft Young.
If DG is drafting I would be surprised if he did anything other than drafting Young with the first pick.
Another long off season ahead....
Another long off season ahead....
Well maybe three really good players is better than having the best player...
Not a rhetorical question. I have no opinion either way. I just think a team as bad as the Giants has to seriously consider adding extra picks, unless the blue-chipper on the board is a truly transformative talent.
I saw Young play against Wisconsin and he had a big day. Then watched him play Michigan and he was pretty quiet.
Seems like the word is he’ll win plenty of awards.
And my vote is to get more than one player...desperate all over this roster.
Epensa (or 2nd best edge + sized)
Simmons (or best ilb that truly pass defends)
Delpit (or best safety that can also play deep)
Not a rhetorical question. I have no opinion either way. I just think a team as bad as the Giants has to seriously consider adding extra picks, unless the blue-chipper on the board is a truly transformative talent.
FWIW, we all should know that DG wanted Allen last year, badly. He also heard rumors that Jones would be taken between 7-16. QB is the more important position...so here we are.
I think all indicators are that Chase Young would be his pick, if he was still available, based on DGs wanting Allen last year.
Now for all the trade down folks who think more is better than one blue chipper - as comparison the Giants got Lawrence and then Baker in the 1st in addition to Jones. DLaw appears to be worth #17 but Baker has been a disappointment.
So trading with Miami - would getting the #3 or #4 plus an additional 1st rnd at about number 15 or at 25 be worth missing out on Young? I'm presuming the Giants at #1 or #2. I'd agree that being able to get both Young and the #15 is a no brainer. I'm assuming that both Cincy and Miami want QBs...so that would leave Young at #3.
What if Cincy takes Burrows at #1 and Miami wants to trade from #3 to #2? Do you chance that they want a QB and not Young? Would they be able to tell the Giants that they want a QB, but on the sly take Young? Can Gettleman base the trade on Miami guaranteeing that they are taking a QB and not Young?
Of course it presumes you need to scout and draft well, but if you think the Giants are at a disadvantage in this aspect then who’s advice are you relying on to take Young...Mel Kiper?
I think the Bengals are taking a QB whether they are 1 or 2. The Red Rifle is only under contract for 1 year remaining and the organization has shown that he is no longer their guy. I don't see them taking Young. They could opt to trade down if they can't get #1 pick and still get their QB to say Washington.
Miami will take a QB. They were in love with Tua, but his injury and past injuries might be leaving them doubt. Them having their choice at #1 would be ideal for us to move to #3 while also getting #19 and #23.
Quote:
there is a greater difference in draft value to move from 3 to 1 instead of 2 to 1. CIN would only have to swap picks and give up their 2nd (we would have to yield a 4th or later to balance the scale). MIA would have to swap picks and give up the #19 and #23 (we would have to yield a late rounder to balance the scale).
this would be the best scenario for the Giants. Could create a bit of a bidding war between Miami and Cinci. Particularly if they feel they may lose their franchise QB. Then you could throw draft charts out the window.
Exactly. When it comes to getting your choice of QBs, we have seen in the past that draft charts are a guideline but there is always an overpay. We may not have to "tip the scales" in either scenario.
Ideally, Miami makes the trade to #1 for their 3 first rounders. If they insist on keeping their later 1st, then they must either give up next year's #1 (which most likely is way better than #23) or surrender a bounty of 2nd and 3rd rounders.
Quote:
If he is there?
Another long off season ahead....
Well maybe three really good players is better than having the best player...
Yeah, Just like Buffalo was going to trade a ton of picks to move up to #2 for a QB. BBI dream land.
Another long off season ahead....
One reason you do that is this, Young is best defensive player but a QB is the best player in the draft. You either select a guy at #1 who is a QB or the final piece to a puzzle (offensively or defensively) or, if a single player is not the final piece you trade down some for a bundle of picks.
1981 the Giants drafted LT #2. BUt, we had Carson, Van Pelt, Kelley, Jeter, Martin etc. already on defense. We had a young QB we drafted in the first round 2 drafts prior so he was a build around guy at that point. LT was the finishing touches on a defense that just needed one big attraction- pass rusher/ game changer.
2019 (2020 draft)- we have holes everywhere on defense. We have a young QB to build around but we need Oline, TE and WR help as well.
If we end up at #1, we take a deal with a team wanting Burrow (within top 5) and we get multiple 2020 and 2021 draft picks.