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NFT: THE New York Rangers

Anakim : 12/8/2019 11:04 pm
Well, that was thoroughly enjoyable. A complete thrashing of the Knights. 5-0. Georgiev with his second shutout in four games.


I hate to say it, but I would look long and hard into trading both Georgiev and Strome now. Like right now. It won't happen until their West Coast trip is over, but both Georgiev and Strome are en fuego and their values have got to be sky-high. I will be SORELY disappointed if we get the same for Georgiev that we got for Talbot.
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....  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2019 9:29 am : link
Kravtsov was sent down to the VHL.
RE: thought it was interesting that DQ came back  
Anakim : 12/9/2019 9:50 am : link
In comment 14708189 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
with Georgiev tonight, on the road, after back-to-back games Th-Fri vs Columbus and Montreal. Neither goal vs Habs was remotely on Georgiev, D'Angelo courtesy of first and Lindberg making two mistakes on the second.

Are the Rangers showcasing him? To play to the OP, whose positions on Georgiev change with the weather.

Georgiev is younger than Shestyorkin by ~ a couple of months, and he's displaying his mettle at the NHL level, not the AHL. It's a nice dilemma to have, but maybe JD and Gorton shouldn't be so quick to act on a notion coming into this season that may be in the process of stood on its head. I don't know whether Valli speaks for the organization, but he loves Georgiev, displaying toughness the night after being the target in target practice for BJs.


What are you talking about? Ive been consistent with my take on Georgiev throughout. Hes a starter in the NHL and better than Henrik now. Ive always said this.
Sometimes  
pjcas18 : 12/9/2019 9:50 am : link
I don't think fans (me included) appreciate how hard it is to prepare players to make the leap from amateur to pro or one pro league to a better one.

Kravtsov is still 19 years old, and probably the past 10 years or more was the best player on his team and more often than not the best player on the ice every time he was on the ice.

it takes patience, and some of these players will not survive.

In other completely unrelated news I spent last weekend in Lake Placid for a hockey tournament for my daughters team. holy shit, best time I've had at a hockey tournament. And I'm glad I went as a coach, not a player. I think I appreciated it more. Even though I did get to skate on the same ice the US team did for the Russia and Finland games.

When my daughter scored a goal on the same ice the Americans beat the Russians it was pretty emotional and I realized how much that event meant to me (more so later in life than in the moment since I was little).

Any hockey fans, whether you play or have kids playing or not, should make the trip in the winter to Lake Placid.
RE: ....  
Anakim : 12/9/2019 9:52 am : link
In comment 14708228 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Kravtsov was sent down to the VHL.


They probably should make amends and bring him back. We dont have any F depth at Hartford and rely on the likes of McKegg and the waived Haley on the fourth.
Georgiev rubs me the wrong way a little  
BestFeature : 12/9/2019 9:53 am : link
He either plays like a first ballot HOFer or like an ECHL goalie, rarely anything in between.
RE: thought it was interesting that DQ came back  
Del Shofner : 12/9/2019 10:01 am : link
In comment 14708189 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
with Georgiev tonight, on the road, after back-to-back games Th-Fri vs Columbus and Montreal.


Georgiev got the start because Lundqvist has been sick, per the Post:

"So while Henrik Lundqvist is close to being fully recovered from his illness..."
Ah, Del, that would explain a lot  
ColHowPepper : 12/9/2019 10:09 am : link
but maybe not all. Henrik was on the bench, so maybe a bit of gentle spin?
RE: Ah, Del, that would explain a lot  
Anakim : 12/9/2019 10:13 am : link
In comment 14708333 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
but maybe not all. Henrik was on the bench, so maybe a bit of gentle spin?


Or because they had no one to back him up and didn't want to make the equipment manager the emergency goalie
Even in this game, they were outshot  
Greg from LI : 12/9/2019 10:15 am : link
I know people get irritated when this gets pointed out after wins, but it remains alarming that they lose the possession battle even in wins.
Feature, in hockey terms he's still pretty raw  
ColHowPepper : 12/9/2019 10:15 am : link
52 starts (57 GP) with NYR, before that half a season or less w/Liiga and AHL
Quote:
Georgiev, 22, agreed to terms with the New York Rangers on July 19, 2017 after appearing in 27 games for TPS of Liiga in Finland where he went 13-8-4 and led Liiga with a 1.70 goals-against average and was fifth with a .923 save percentage.

Georgiev began the 2017-18 season with Hartford of the American Hockey League, going 14-13-7 with a 2.98 GAA and .909 save percentage.
The thinking with trading Tony D right now is that he's a FA  
Anakim : 12/9/2019 10:16 am : link
at the end of the season, he's going to want A LOT more money than he's earning now, and our top-4 RHD are set for the next few years in Trouba and Fox. The third RHD could be a youngster in Lundkvist or Keane.
Greg, I get what you're saying  
ColHowPepper : 12/9/2019 10:22 am : link
I still have visions (nightmares) of SCF playing vs the Kings, a heavy, disciplined checking oriented team that ground NYR down. Guessing that this may continue to dog this group of players for a while. It's why I like Lemieux, and of course Trouba. Lindberg too. Haven't seen enough of K'Andre to know if he has a mean streak.
RE: Even in this game, they were outshot  
Giants in 07 : 12/9/2019 10:24 am : link
In comment 14708345 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I know people get irritated when this gets pointed out after wins, but it remains alarming that they lose the possession battle even in wins.


Do you enjoy anything?
RE: Even in this game, they were outshot  
pjcas18 : 12/9/2019 10:26 am : link
In comment 14708345 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I know people get irritated when this gets pointed out after wins, but it remains alarming that they lose the possession battle even in wins.


I'm starting to look at scoring chances more than shots. I think the industry will start trending this way. A bad location shot can be as bad as a turnover.

it's the whole quality vs quantity debate.
yep, the Kings just cycled the puck endlessly in that series  
Greg from LI : 12/9/2019 10:27 am : link
Anyway, to me it goes back to Quinn's often perplexing personnel choices. Why on earth was Buchnevich dropped to the third line? Why do the likes of Howden and McKegg remain in the lineup despite being total sieves? Why does Kakko usually get buried with terrible linemates?
RE: RE: Even in this game, they were outshot  
Greg from LI : 12/9/2019 10:29 am : link
In comment 14708373 Giants in 07 said:
Quote:
Do you enjoy anything?


From the looks of it, you enjoy following me around to cry that I'm insufficiently enthusiastic.
I get what you're saying pj  
Greg from LI : 12/9/2019 10:32 am : link
But even there, the Rangers are lagging, although not nearly as dramatically as in all shots. Look at their high danger scoring attempt numbers - 392 HD for, 546 against.

Elite goaltending is what has made their record better than their actual numbers would indicate.
RE: Even in this game, they were outshot  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2019 10:35 am : link
In comment 14708345 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I know people get irritated when this gets pointed out after wins, but it remains alarming that they lose the possession battle even in wins.


Rangers are not a good team. This is still a fun year. Seeing Fox thrive, Kakko and Chytil develop, and watching Panarin has been great.

I'm on the edge of my seat every time Panarin has the puck on his stick. I haven't felt that way since we
had Girardi.
RE: Even in this game, they were outshot  
pjcas18 : 12/9/2019 10:35 am : link
In comment 14708345 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I know people get irritated when this gets pointed out after wins, but it remains alarming that they lose the possession battle even in wins.


Sean Tierney on twitter has some good charts to demonstrate my point about quality vs quantity. NYR are a young, inconsistent team, but I wouldn't get hung up with them on CF or being outshot.

They're almost break even in quality vs quantity - which IMO is good for a young team.

xG is better than shots as a metric IMO.



RE: I get what you're saying pj  
pjcas18 : 12/9/2019 10:37 am : link
In comment 14708399 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But even there, the Rangers are lagging, although not nearly as dramatically as in all shots. Look at their high danger scoring attempt numbers - 392 HD for, 546 against.

Elite goaltending is what has made their record better than their actual numbers would indicate.


Agree 100%, but it's closer than Corsi and a better metric.

They are not a good team, but they are a young, fun to watch team who IMO should focus on player development. yes you want to win every game, but to me if the Rangers would tell Quinn his job is safe, develop these guys - he moves Kakko up, calls up Andersson and make him 3C, plays them both with players who can skate with them, and have them learn.

but too many people are too focused on the now. Just my opinion.
RE: RE: RE: Even in this game, they were outshot  
Giants in 07 : 12/9/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14708391 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14708373 Giants in 07 said:


Quote:


Do you enjoy anything?



From the looks of it, you enjoy following me around to cry that I'm insufficiently enthusiastic.


Well, I'm a Rangers fan so here we are.

Have a drink or something. Our team of 20 year olds won 5-0 on the road. That's a good thing.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2019 10:39 am : link
Quote:
They are not a good team


Wow, literally coming into our threads just to troll and insult us. Ridiculous, pj.
I do agree with that  
Greg from LI : 12/9/2019 10:44 am : link
Some of the shot differential is attributable to style - the Rangers have a lot of high-skill players who tend to over-pass in looking for the perfect shot.Reminds me a bit of the old Jagr days when it was the same way on the PP. They'd pass and pass and pass in search of the one perfect opportunity.

The future's bright and I'm plenty optimistic. Just not crazy about some of the things Quinn's been doing. I'm not sold at all that he's the right guy to build these kids into a contender.
I said this the other day  
Kyle in NY : 12/9/2019 10:46 am : link
But I'd be more concerned about the possession differential if we had any real expectations for this season. I used to get much more frustrated by it in the last few season's of the AV tenure when we were looking to contend but winning games while being crushed on the shot chart made it pretty clear that it wasn't sustainable.

I think the personnel is decent enough on this team where this shouldn't be happening so consistently. But I don't mind if they win some games they don't really deserve. If regression hits later in the season, then we just end up back in the lottery of a good draft. If the luck continues and they sneak into a wild card spot, that'd be great too for all the young players. Win-win.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2019 10:48 am : link
I agree, Kyle. I care about the development of the key guys. Would love to see Kakko go on a tear.

I'm loving Fox's game.

I just think the shot differential should erase any illusions about the quality of the team at this stage. I do think the team should fare a bit better there, there's more talent than the numbers suggest defensively.
In the graph pj put up, Creating Quality vs Results  
ColHowPepper : 12/9/2019 10:55 am : link
look where the Bruins fall, interesting

Wednesday night, Boston vs Washington
Fox is awesome  
Kyle in NY : 12/9/2019 10:55 am : link
The exact type of puck moving RHD we've been needing for years. To Anak's original point, I could see them moving DeAngelo after the season because Fox makes him a bit redundant, but I like how he's played too.

Kakko has been interesting. The flashes are obvious. And I think Quinn has handled him pretty well, giving him enough opportunity. I think there's just been an obvious adjustment to the night in night out demands of this league. There will be nights where he's just not there, isn't noticeable at all, gets taken out of it a bit physically. All part of the learning process for him though, I don't have any long term concerns there.
Brett, fair,  
ColHowPepper : 12/9/2019 11:00 am : link
and I don't know what mandate or leash DQ has from JD, but seems to me that some of the challenges in possession might stem from the constant tinkering DQ does with his lines. Several weeks ago Chytil was on a tear playing RW, then got moved to C. KK up and down. Buch, Panarin and Strome (if I recollect) were terrific for a good stretch of games. Every time the lines change, it has to affect decision making, knowing your mates and their abilities and tendencies. Affects two-way play for sure.

I don't know how long DQ keeps this up, but at some point he has to settle on some groupings.
RE: In the graph pj put up, Creating Quality vs Results  
pjcas18 : 12/9/2019 11:00 am : link
In comment 14708476 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
look where the Bruins fall, interesting

Wednesday night, Boston vs Washington


Pastrnak is having as good a start as anyone I can remember. Ever.

Even without Bergeron. His PP one-timer is as good as Ovie's. And now he's starting to get manhandled a little and still responding.

and it's not just Pastrnak the Bruins have skill all over the lineup.

I hate them so much, but I'm in awe when I see their power play. The Avalanche Bruins game last week was one of the best games I've seen all year.

those two teams could combine and create an legit allstar team.
I disagree with trading Strome. Hes played a very solid  
yatqb : 12/9/2019 11:23 am : link
200 foot game for us, and done so since the middle of last season. Theres no reason to think his play will fall off the table given the consistency of his play over that period.

And I think that trading Georgiev needs to be a last resort. He and Shesterkin should be the goalies of the future. If that means buying out the King you have to do that.

The cap is hanging over us for another year or so, and if I were going to trade anyone it would be Buchnevich, who is too inconsistent, soft and poor defensively for my taste. As much as I like how TDAs game has come along ( hes a really solid offensive defenseman) Id see what he could bring back, because we have Miller, Lundqvist and Keane who could fill that spot down the line.

And we still need a 2C. Wed be a stronger team with Chytil at 3C, as he isnt quite ready for 2C imo. Not enough face off wins for one thing.

The o
I think Kravstov  
Phil in LA : 12/9/2019 11:52 am : link
Was demoted because the KHlL has a week off.
I hadn't heard that.  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2019 12:04 pm : link
If that's true, it makes me feel much better.
RE: I hadn't heard that.  
pjcas18 : 12/9/2019 12:10 pm : link
In comment 14708592 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
If that's true, it makes me feel much better.


It's not just that. He hasn't been playing with Traktor (1 shift per game the past two games).

but like I said he's 19, patience would be good.
Dammit.  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2019 12:15 pm : link
I'm not writing him off or anything, but it's been a very disappointing year for him.
RE: Please trade Georgie to my Leafs  
Jay in Toronto : 12/9/2019 2:10 pm : link
In comment 14708104 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
We really can use him. We cant win a game with our backup who usually allows 4-6 goals. Georgie is very good and in case Anderson gets hurt, we would have a solid starter.

So who do the Rangers want in return?


And he should have impressed them last year.

There are a couple of wingers blocked that should interest us.

My question is whether Shesty is better? We have a couple of goalies playing really well that could be backups for either.
RE: I think Kravstov  
Jay in Toronto : 12/9/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14708567 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
Was demoted because the KHlL has a week off.


Also speculation that they maybe trying to trade him
RE: RE: I think Kravstov  
Anakim : 12/9/2019 2:22 pm : link
In comment 14708810 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
In comment 14708567 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


Was demoted because the KHlL has a week off.



Also speculation that they maybe trying to trade him


Traktor, that is. Not New York.
RE: I disagree with trading Strome. Hes played a very solid  
Giantz_comeback : 12/9/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14708516 yatqb said:
Quote:
200 foot game for us, and done so since the middle of last season. Theres no reason to think his play will fall off the table given the consistency of his play over that period.

And I think that trading Georgiev needs to be a last resort. He and Shesterkin should be the goalies of the future. If that means buying out the King you have to do that.

The cap is hanging over us for another year or so, and if I were going to trade anyone it would be Buchnevich, who is too inconsistent, soft and poor defensively for my taste. As much as I like how TDAs game has come along ( hes a really solid offensive defenseman) Id see what he could bring back, because we have Miller, Lundqvist and Keane who could fill that spot down the line.

And we still need a 2C. Wed be a stronger team with Chytil at 3C, as he isnt quite ready for 2C imo. Not enough face off wins for one thing.

The o


+1 on everything.
BBB on Kravtsov  
ColHowPepper : 12/9/2019 4:23 pm : link
https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2019/12/9/21002584/nhl-new-york-rangers-jeff-gorton-needs-to-take-control-of-the-vitali-kravtsov-situation?utm_campaign=joefortunatobsb&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
^^^^  
Del Shofner : 12/9/2019 4:47 pm : link
Interesting. I don't have enough hockey expertise to opine as to what's best, but you would hate to see this asset wasted. Sounds like an exciting player who's caught up in a bad situation, albeit partly of his own making.

If the Rangers were to recall him, what would be the chances of his getting top-9 minutes here? They don't seem like they'd be too great. Maybe Traktor can trade him to a KHL team that wants him.
All I know is that there's no reason for Haley to see any ice action  
Anakim : 12/9/2019 4:59 pm : link
And guys like Boo Nieves and Tim Gettinger and Greg McKegg are easily replaceable
The Rangers have  
pjcas18 : 12/9/2019 5:06 pm : link
a defenseman playing forward ahead of players like Andersson and Kravstov. They know what they're doing more than me, but AHL is not a development league IMO.

From what I know I'd rather have a high end or just young prospect in the KHL or La Liga or the SHL - even the Canadian juniors or NCAA than the AHL.

that to me is a last resort.

So leave Kravstov alone in the KHL or even VHL (he's still one of the younger players in the KHL), but Andersson in the AHL is one I question.

Post just had  
pjcas18 : 12/9/2019 5:08 pm : link
an article on it:

Quote:
New York Post
@nypost
18m
Vitali Kravtsov could return to Rangers after Russian demotion https://trib.al/zoeC4rg
I thought it was a mistake sending him down  
Torrag : 12/9/2019 5:09 pm : link
He had a decent camp and pre season. The problem is the organization is straddling the fence with guys like McKegg, Haley and others, convincing themselves they give the team the best chance to win this season and make the playoffs. That's a mistake. Because even if they snag a low seed they aren't contending for the Cup. Bring in and play the young guys now.
The BSB comments have gotten to be kind of an echo chamber  
Greg from LI : 12/9/2019 5:13 pm : link
so I don't read them much anymore, but.....this guy has had a pretty good track record as an insider in the past, and he said this about Kravtsov:

Quote:
His whole hockey-playing life, all hes heard is how great he is and how hes destined for greatness. Not making the NHL club out of camp was the first adversity the kid ever had to deal with. He was not able to handle this due to being extremely immature. Now couple that with parents that were barking that he should come back b/c hes better than the AHL, this was recipe for disaster.

His coming over was mutual. The Rangers FO wanted him to come over and Krav had been saying since he was drafted he wanted to come over. I know many here felt he should have made the team out of camp, myself being one of them, but from a VERY close source to Krav, he wasnt physically ready for North American game. Panarin himself told him that he needs to have some "push-back" in his game in order to be successful in the NHL. Sending him to the AHL for a period of time to get better acclimated to this style was not viewed as setback or demotion but more as a short step in his development. The only one who viewed this negatively was Krav himself and he sulked in Hartford and mentally checked out. This VERY close source has said the kid has simply been getting horrible advice. The FO and his agent tried to convince him to stay and did for a very short period of time but eventually, Krav listened to said "bad advice" and went back which was his right.

Im not sure what has happened over in mother Russia and Im trying to find out more but if I had to guess, this could be a result of this kid being extremely immature and having smoke blown up his ass his whole hockey-playing life and is just not equipped to handle any adversity.


This guy said at the time of his return to Russia that his parents are his biggest problem - his agent tried to convince him that it was just a minor, temporary development stop in Hartford but his parents kept telling him he was too good to play in the minor leagues and he should return to the KHL. Well, if that's the case, then getting demoted back home might finally get him to listen to better advice.
I hear a lot about Russian  
pjcas18 : 12/9/2019 5:18 pm : link
parents having a negative influence on their professional hockey playing children.

Especially those who coached their kids.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2019 5:19 pm : link
Greg, that same guy said this:

Quote:
Thats not happening. Rangers FO views Krav in the same way the view Kakko. Thats how highly they think of him


Interesting.
although this leads me back to what I was saying last night  
Greg from LI : 12/9/2019 5:28 pm : link
Why has Brett Howden played in all 29 games despite being awful? Why have Haley and McKegg played 14 and 16 games? Why is Brendan Smith playing forward? Why does Fast frequently get bumped up to the top 6 despite not belonging there (and don't take that as a shot at Fast, he's a valuable guy in his role). There's a level of accountability for some guys and a whole different level for other guys.
Debated whether to put this in the WADA thread, where pj  
ColHowPepper : 12/9/2019 6:03 pm : link
mentioned, better here.....some familiar names from the May draft https://twitter.com/usahockey/status/1204150825234223104/photo/1
Greg  
XBRONX : 12/9/2019 6:11 pm : link
Agree with your post. If you were coach for day who would be on your four lines?
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