No big surprise, of course. The "I'm sick of losing" angle seems like a real thing with hin. It's been beaten to death around here, but the thought of Gettleman renting him for part of a year when we are in rebuilding/non-contending mode and badly needed the picks he traded away is infuriating.
Now Leonard Williams is talking - (
New Window )
Fire Gettleman. Enough is enough already with this clown.
Stupid then, stupid now.
NEWS AT 11!!
***yawn***
His actual quotes weren't as bad as the headline, in fact they were pretty measured and thoughtful.
“I like to be committed to where I’m at," Williams said. “I like the fact that the GM and the owner wanted me here. I think it speaks volumes that they were willing to trade for me in a rebuilding year. I think that shows that they want me to be a part of this program."
“I definitely think I’m a top-tier interior defensive lineman, in that top percentage of the d-linemen. I wouldn’t say Aaron Donald [level]. But I would definitely put myself up there with a lot of those other top guys.”
“This has definitely been one of the hardest years,” Williams said. “I want to win, and I think it’s time. I want to be able to have some winning years, even if that’s just making it to the playoffs. I at least want to do that. I think it would be hard for me to sit back in retirement and think about never being able to have played in the playoffs.”
Franchising him as a DT vs. DE is a big difference.
Giants only recourse is the FT, which would make a bad trade worse.
This organization is a dumpster fire.
Stupid then, stupid now.
Agreed he completely lost me with this trade.
NEWS AT 11!!
***yawn***
this, too. Just because he wants to get paid does not mean there will be a robust market for him.
Either way it doesn't matter. It's a few $M difference in a year we project to have $80m+ cap room and by the time we get to march there will be very few appealing targets for it. Certainly not very many 25/26 year old starters with a healthy track record, a top pedigree, and upside willing to take a 1 year deal.
Pay him for 1 year at the top tier like he wants, and motivate him to get that big deal he wants and help this team build a winner.
LW basically said, I don't like losing AND I want to get paid.
He's coming over his rookie contract and for most of these guys, it's there one chance at a big pay day.
LW has played very well, especially against the run, since he got here.
In the words of Teddy KGB, "Pay that man his money!"
Stupid then, stupid now.
Yep.
Either way it doesn't matter. It's a few $M difference in a year we project to have $80m+ cap room and by the time we get to march there will be very few appealing targets for it. Certainly not very many 25/26 year old starters with a healthy track record, a top pedigree, and upside willing to take a 1 year deal.
Pay him for 1 year at the top tier like he wants, and motivate him to get that big deal he wants and help this team build a winner.
There are two notes of distinction in that quote:
1. He considers himself an interior lineman, and mentions Donald. So I think it's fair to assume he could get tagged as a DT.
2. He considers himself really good, but also not in Donald's class. That shows me that he's open to negotiation yet not unreasonable. Had he said "I consider myself in Donald's class..." I might be more worried about it than I am.
I think the transition tag is what happens here.
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“I definitely think I’m a top-tier interior defensive lineman, in that top percentage of the d-linemen. I wouldn’t say Aaron Donald [level]. But I would definitely put myself up there with a lot of those other top guys.”
Franchising him as a DT vs. DE is a big difference.
The interior vs exterior lineman difference was about 2M last year.
There are some big DT numbers this and next year, so I'd expect it to narrow a bit.
That sounds pretty damn good to me.
That is nice, but we can stop him for a one year deal. Do you think he wants to sign a multi year deal not in the top 5 of interior lineman? We can get him for that price for one year unless he agrees to a long term multi year deal. It is amazing to me how people think LW has us over a barrel.
Which is why franchising him for 15 million is a decent move for us, and not a world is ending move as some are describing it.
I somewhat agree but it is more of a risk if someone does something stupid and there are stupid owners in the NFL. The leverage is that if we sign him for a one year deal (an look this guy is looking for top 5 money on the open market) he is at total risk for the extra guaranteed millions next year and risks a long term deal by aging a year and not having as good a year. So, why let some idiot like Daniel Synder set the terms for us when we can just franchise tag him.
The projected, general DT tag is $16M. For DEs, $19M+.
Nevertheless,a lot of time obsessing over something that has not played out yet.
That sounds pretty damn good to me.
I mean - if there's a reason to get excited about the defense moving forward - this has to be it...right?
Giants can already stop the run now that they've got LW, if they can rush the passer from the edges - all of sudden LW gets some sacks when the QB has to step up in the pocket and he looks a lot better on paper and all those millions look well spent.
If Williams has a great season next year then the Giants can give him the long term deal he wants. If not then they can just move on and let him sign with another team and collect a comp pick.
Just for the record, there is NO compensation for losing a player after not matching another bidder. Essentially, that situation outcome is GM suicide...
Lost draft picks and said player leaves.
If we lose him we likely get a #3 compensatory pick at best. We lose out in terms of overall gain if we lose him and just get a comp pick in return.
And if we over-pay a run stuffer, well, what does that say about our judgment as a team???
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And if I'm not mistaken, his number would be at a minimum of 17.2M for a tag, as 120% of his previous salary.
The projected, general DT tag is $16M. For DEs, $19M+.
The franchise tag distinction states it's the greater of either 1) the average top 5 salaries or 2) 120% of the player's previous year salary.
Williams made 14.2M last year, so the greater number would be 120% if last year. I'm pretty sure that 17.2M will be the number.
Agree. Historically, teams don't go all out to sign guys that are transition tagged. I'm pretty sure (not 100%) of that.
LW is seeking at least $18M/yr. I’ve predicted this for a month.
The best outcome is this, and it’s a long shot to salvage this incompetent trade by our moronic GM:
Sign LW and then trade him. And try to scrape back similar comp to what we originally wasted...
What a catastrophe...
DG will have used a 1st (Dlaw), a high 3rd (BJ Hill), replaced that high third with another high third PLUS a 4th PLUS paying LW 10% our our cap space. (in addition to the 2017 2nd rounder)
For positions that theyre supposed to eat blockers and make room for the LBs to make tackles.
Any people still dont understand what I mean when I say DG does not understand asset allocation and positional value.
He is the worst general manager in the NFL. He has to go.
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In comment 14708299 christian said:
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And if I'm not mistaken, his number would be at a minimum of 17.2M for a tag, as 120% of his previous salary.
The projected, general DT tag is $16M. For DEs, $19M+.
The franchise tag distinction states it's the greater of either 1) the average top 5 salaries or 2) 120% of the player's previous year salary.
Williams made 14.2M last year, so the greater number would be 120% if last year. I'm pretty sure that 17.2M will be the number.
I was just providing the general projections.
But I agree with your math.
No. He thinks he’s as good as Grady Jarrett, who signed this summer for $17M/yr.
And their stats are eerily similar.
its all the old people who get excited when Gettleman says things like hog mollies, smash mouth football, talks about the culture and being adults and remember the time when football was played by men who were tough.
our defense ypc average is 2.7 since he is been there, it amazes me how people do not see this guy's absolute worth in transforming our defensive line. In fact, while our Lbs and Secondary have been dreadful, the one good thing we have done recently is stop the run (a prereq to winning in this league). Rome was not built in a day and you have to start somewhere, this was a good opportunity to upgrade by giving away a 3rd and a 5th (crapshoots that rarely work out) vs a legitimate run stuffer in this league. So, if we wanted to pay him in the off season, giving a 3 and 5 was certainly worth it considering that we now have various options to retain his services. If we do not somehow keep him, then you can criticize this, but from a football perspective this was not a stupid move (it is yet to be determined whether it was a good one though). I am critical of Gettleman in many areas, but the criticism of this trade to me is simply mind-boggling or at least the criticsm of it at this time.
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in the class of DL just below Aaron Donald. Those guys make around $18M/year.....so it's pretty obvious he'll be looking for at least that much...which is precisely what many of the smarter posters here predicted as soon as the trade was made.
No. He thinks he’s as good as Grady Jarrett, who signed this summer for $17M/yr.
And their stats are eerily similar.
Grady Jarrett 2020: 5.5 sacks. Leonard Williams 2020: 0 sacks