Probably was talked about on the game threads yesterday, but wanted to bring up again two puzzling ones.
Case 1: Cleveland challenges a PI call on interception off OBJ and actually wins it. Was this because it actually resulted in a turnover and not incompletion? Because we've seen way worse. Or are they gearing us up for the playoffs?
Case 2: Not sure of the play because I caught in right in the middle, but did the Saints fake a punt and throw a pass to a gunner way downfield getting literally mugged with no apparent challenge by Sean Peyton? Announcers said that it was holding, which can't be challenged, so there was no red flag. Then the announcer followed up by saying, that sure looks like PI to me.
But on case 2, you Cannot have def PI on a punt or fake punt
The turnover of the Dolphins-Jets game allowed the Jets to win. If they don't they were out of FG range and it was 4th and 17 at the 50! All season they haven't turned that play over. If I am the Dolphins I would be pissed.
However, I believe they said Payton was out of challenges or it wasn't challengeable.
In any event, the fans were pissed.....but they Bandino kept saying it was the right call.
But on case 2, you Cannot have def PI on a punt or fake punt
That's simply crazy (the rule). I assume special teams coaches teach their players to simply mug any player going downfield (which is what essentially happening).
Also becoming clear that PI rule will be called as we thought it would all season - but only in the fourth quarter where games can turn.
This is simply the way refs are instructed to call the play.
The rationale is that defenders need to understand where the ball is in relation to the receiver/play.
Surely an advantage to the offense, but that's the NFL.
Will be called every single time.
But on case 2, you Cannot have def PI on a punt or fake punt
correct. HOWEVER it was holding! That is the problem. You can hold when your blocking correct? Therefore that was as obvious a holding call as there is in the game. Horribly blown by the officials.
By the way shocked Payton drew yo that play. He clearly did not know the rules. If he had 2 gunners on one side of the field aka a guy in the slot that’s PI
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I didnt see #1
But on case 2, you Cannot have def PI on a punt or fake punt
That's simply crazy (the rule). I assume special teams coaches teach their players to simply mug any player going downfield (which is what essentially happening).
Also becoming clear that PI rule will be called as we thought it would all season - but only in the fourth quarter where games can turn.
It's only on the outside gunner. You're allowed to block them all the way down the filed. No PI if you fake and choose to throw it to that outside guy.
It is basically spinning the wheel of incompetence.
I don't think it was questionable. It was definitely PI and there was a play earlier in that game that negated an INT by the Jets D that was essentially the same type of "hold" (happened slightly earlier in the route so it was holding instead of PI in this latter instance). The earlier play was borderline, the latter one on MIA was definitely PI. Though, you can certainly argue if it was "egregious" enough to be overturned especially when considering other no calls that have been upheld this season.
It is basically spinning the wheel of incompetence.
That's more an issue of consistency, though the lack of consistency in the calls certainly leads to a lack of credibility for the officials. And it's inexcusable to lack consistency when these plays are reviewed by a central office/person.
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I didnt see #1
But on case 2, you Cannot have def PI on a punt or fake punt
That's simply crazy (the rule). I assume special teams coaches teach their players to simply mug any player going downfield (which is what essentially happening).
Also becoming clear that PI rule will be called as we thought it would all season - but only in the fourth quarter where games can turn.
Its not really crazy, b/c if PI was an option, teams would fake all the time and just throw it towards the gunners. The defenders are immediately engaged with them, so they'd get PI every time. It actually makes sense IMO.
It's not just PI either. It's pretty much everything - holding, roughing the passer, illegal contact, measuring off penalties, even getting the down right - it doesn't matter. They do not enforce the rules evenly. And they often ignore pretty blatant offenses.
THE NFL should fire all the zebras and start over with all the major officials as full time employees.
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In comment 14708477 tator said:
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I didnt see #1
But on case 2, you Cannot have def PI on a punt or fake punt
That's simply crazy (the rule). I assume special teams coaches teach their players to simply mug any player going downfield (which is what essentially happening).
Also becoming clear that PI rule will be called as we thought it would all season - but only in the fourth quarter where games can turn.
Its not really crazy, b/c if PI was an option, teams would fake all the time and just throw it towards the gunners. The defenders are immediately engaged with them, so they'd get PI every time. It actually makes sense IMO.
It actually does make sense......thanks for clarifying.
When I say the 'catch' I thought... that's pretty clear, it's a no catch. Yet, Dean Blandino and Trent Green said, that it was a catch, because he had possession during the catch and was over the goal line. I didn't think it mattered... if the receiver doesn't maintain control throughout the catch, it's no good. This was a low point in an otherwise 'best NFL game of 2019'.
When I say the 'catch' I thought... that's pretty clear, it's a no catch. Yet, Dean Blandino and Trent Green said, that it was a catch, because he had possession during the catch and was over the goal line. I didn't think it mattered... if the receiver doesn't maintain control throughout the catch, it's no good. This was a low point in an otherwise 'best NFL game of 2019'.
I think you answered your own question.
Ground can't cause a fumble. But it can cause an incomplete pass. Even in the endzone.
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defensive pass interference, explain what constitutes a catch. I watched Jared Cook catch a TD pass against the 49ers yesterday. He caught the ball and got drilled as he was falling to the ground and securing the ball. The replay clearly shows that he had the ball settled in his arm for a very short time before it was knocked loose and landed in the ground as he hit the ground.
When I say the 'catch' I thought... that's pretty clear, it's a no catch. Yet, Dean Blandino and Trent Green said, that it was a catch, because he had possession during the catch and was over the goal line. I didn't think it mattered... if the receiver doesn't maintain control throughout the catch, it's no good. This was a low point in an otherwise 'best NFL game of 2019'.
I think you answered your own question.
Ground can't cause a fumble. But it can cause an incomplete pass. Even in the endzone.
Yes... except that the ball was loose before Cook was down by contact. He had possession for a split second and the contact jarred it loose before Cook could make a football move or to be down by contact.