BBI is not as much fun right now, partly because of the losing. Also, I just don't enjoy the vitriol spewed toward everyone affiliated with the team. I get it, there are people who when angry have to shout it at every opportunity.
What I can't really stand though are the people who rip on "the Giants way" as though it's led them to constant mediocrity forever. Yes, there has been a struggle for the last many years, but this franchise has proud moments in each of the last four decades, and has a chance to be the first and only franchise to win a super bowl in five straight decades.
Reading the rants on BBI about "the Giants way" one might think we have sucked for the last 35 years, instead of thinking that we've been to the SB 5 times during that span, winning 4.
There's a reason that ownership wants to continue to do things a certain way, or get back to doing things a certain way - it has resulted in championships. The Mara family has pride and don't think of themselves as losers.
I may not always agree with everything the Mara's have done, and I may be disappointed with how things are going (again) for the Giants, but I am fed up with the loud, angry voices who want to rip this team as though they've never accomplished anything and never will again without the Mara's selling off. Go root for someone else.
Anyone else with me?
I also get why people have been critical of the Giants way. It's almost 2020. Some of the folks they are relying on are old and seemingly out of touch with the NFL game. It's a fair criticism at this point, tbh.
I've seen them play in the 70's, they were tough times. However from the 80's until now they have showed success in small spurts. More importantly, they've won Superbowls...and 4 is great.
The day where coaches and GMs get 5 plus years is probably gone. Teams have shown that progress can be made in 2-3 seasons with good drafting, FA, and good coaching. The Giants haven't shown all three and have 2 wins.
So, from a long term perspective, it may not seem all that bad...but for those who are looking since 2011...they see failure.
Let's hope they get this figured out next season.
They are not incompetents like Dolan.
They are not pinching pennies on the field like the Wilponzis.
They did not name themselves and children total control as GM like Jerry Jones has, and they certainly didn't run Jimmy Johnson and a dynasty out the door over ego.
They have had a bad half decade of leadership evaluations. A very bad half decade. Some of that was clouded by unlikely successes and nostalgia for those successes but that's not an excuse, they need to do better. But I think they will be a lot quicker to admit that than Dolan will admit he's incompetent, the Wilpons to stop being cheap (apparently only MLB debt limits could do that), or Jerry Jones to give up his GM title.
They did want to bring in an exec they were very comfortable with who had quite a bit of success with them and in CAR, but didn't insist on the same out of their HC.
I'm just tired of hearing people who supposedly root for this team act as though they've only been losers. This franchise isn't DET, CLE, NYJ, or any of the other 20 luckless franchises over the past 20 years (although admittedly right now they almost all have a better record). This is the proud New York Giants franchise that has banners hanging and trophies on display for every home game. Be upset with the current results all you want, but if you really think the organization sucks - go root for someone else, or at the least, keep your complaints down to no more than say - a comment a day.
The angriest, loudest voices are commenting ALL DAY LONG about this team and they are going after the owners. Shut up already.
They did want to bring in an exec they were very comfortable with who had quite a bit of success with them and in CAR, but didn't insist on the same out of their HC.
I'm just tired of hearing people who supposedly root for this team act as though they've only been losers. This franchise isn't DET, CLE, NYJ, or any of the other 20 luckless franchises over the past 20 years (although admittedly right now they almost all have a better record). This is the proud New York Giants franchise that has banners hanging and trophies on display for every home game. Be upset with the current results all you want, but if you really think the organization sucks - go root for someone else, or at the least, keep your complaints down to no more than say - a comment a day.
The angriest, loudest voices are commenting ALL DAY LONG about this team and they are going after the owners. Shut up already.
The team has been losing for 70% of a decade now. You seem very, very sensitive. Are you a millennial by any chance?
Tone it down a little. It will lead to better conversations about the team.
Some people really love venting but mostly its repetitive mouth breathing. And god forbid someone wants to talk about and of the bright spots, those threads get ruined too.
People love being miserable.
One thing I do feel is I am uncertain of is who ultimately is calling the shots. They need to hold the GM accountable but they need to give that GM full power. I don't think that was the case for DG his first year.
At this point I think it would be best to get the Mara's out of the football operation. Empower someone, support them and hold them accountable.
All the negative nellies fail to realize one simple truth to football. You have to be competent on the fronts to be competitive and better than most to win championships. This failure has led to the current demise. Fix that we will start winning again. DG knows this.
I am certain this Coach is not the answer.
There's a pretty healthy contingent of fans who would be willing to have a fact based, positive, rational debate as to whether the team is or is not stuck in the past.
What are some of the signals you see to support this?
Some people really love venting but mostly its repetitive mouth breathing. And god forbid someone wants to talk about and of the bright spots, those threads get ruined too.
People love being miserable.
Sure, but I'm not talking about the being bored about it. I'm talking about the being over-sensitive about it. It's a sports team. Not you or your family that people are shit-talking. Want positive talk? Don't suck for 7 years straight.
They did want to bring in an exec they were very comfortable with who had quite a bit of success with them and in CAR, but didn't insist on the same out of their HC.
I'm just tired of hearing people who supposedly root for this team act as though they've only been losers. This franchise isn't DET, CLE, NYJ, or any of the other 20 luckless franchises over the past 20 years (although admittedly right now they almost all have a better record). This is the proud New York Giants franchise that has banners hanging and trophies on display for every home game. Be upset with the current results all you want, but if you really think the organization sucks - go root for someone else, or at the least, keep your complaints down to no more than say - a comment a day.
The angriest, loudest voices are commenting ALL DAY LONG about this team and they are going after the owners. Shut up already.
And this is the impact of losing on a fanbase. Appreciating the history and accomplishments of the franchise and bemoaning the current state of the organization are not mutually exclusive concepts. In fact Id argue that the former informs the latter. We're not just talking about lean years, we're in an embarrassing fall from grace that is not befitting the proud history. Leaning on the statement that "well at least we're not the dregs" is a sorry state. You want to recognize the history while setting the bar that low?
The team has been losing for 70% of a decade now. You seem very, very sensitive. Are you a millennial by any chance?
Not a millenial. I am venting here because for the past 19 years or so I've had "The Corner Forum" as my landing spot when I open my browser. No matter the situation, it's been my home page and still is, and I've learned over the years to avoid posters who contribute next to nothing.
Right now though, I've grown very weary of hearing on every single thread that the NYG are a loser franchise being run by loser owners with a losing mentality who are completely incompetent. Tired of it.
Perhaps I need a bigger break from BBI. It's certainly not doing much for me.
Some people really love venting but mostly its repetitive mouth breathing. And god forbid someone wants to talk about and of the bright spots, those threads get ruined too.
People love being miserable.
Actually, I think people are pissed because they don't love being miserable. Personally I know I'd really like to be excited about an important MNF divisional game tonight, and I can't.
I really like the Giants. It makes me happy when they are playing critical games as fall turns to winter. When that doesn't happen for many years I feel like something's been lost. It makes me miserable as a fan, and I don't enjoy that in the least. Frankly it really fucking sucks.
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The team has been losing for 70% of a decade now. You seem very, very sensitive. Are you a millennial by any chance?
Not a millenial. I am venting here because for the past 19 years or so I've had "The Corner Forum" as my landing spot when I open my browser. No matter the situation, it's been my home page and still is, and I've learned over the years to avoid posters who contribute next to nothing.
Right now though, I've grown very weary of hearing on every single thread that the NYG are a loser franchise being run by loser owners with a losing mentality who are completely incompetent. Tired of it.
Perhaps I need a bigger break from BBI. It's certainly not doing much for me.
Just so you know, when criticizing the Giants, I don't think people are shitting on the history and past accomplishments of the franchise. I think everyone still knows this is one of the best franchises out there. This bad run doesn't take away from that.
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PS, DG, or whatever players, etc. I can live with. The team is definitely not where we want it to be. But there is a lot of evidence that the team is NOT stuck in the past, which is a false narrative that gets thrown at ownership.
There's a pretty healthy contingent of fans who would be willing to have a fact based, positive, rational debate as to whether the team is or is not stuck in the past.
What are some of the signals you see to support this?
Two years ago they hired (for the second time in 24 months) a HC to turn this franchise around who had no ties to the NYG organization. None. It hasn't worked out, but that should certainly count as something.
A couple years back they totally revamped their approach to player fitness and have had tremendous results from it.
Those are two of the signals.
I'm okay with the bemoaning of our current state. Even okay with being upset about DG and/or PS and/or other coaches/players. That doesn't bother me.
I don't like the labeling of the franchise as losers in general and the attack on the ownership as though they are incompetent bozos who have never had and never will have any success.
One thing that has been tough is that this bad run has stained Eli Manning's career. I remember early in 2012 that the sky was the limit for him...that Aikman had 3 titles and after that the air was really thin: only Montana and Bradshaw (since joined by Brady). I really thought things were still pointing up. And now he's probably going to retire with a sub .500 record as a starter, because this organization just fell apart.
I don't know how I could have been so stupid, but I was.
2) Mind the magical thinking that some posters know just what owners and managers are thinking
3) Mind asserting outcomes and conclusions before they occur
4) Mind " my opinion" and feelings are a fact and yours isn't. (Nothing about football causality is so easily certain that "facts" describe many of its interpretations. Its outcomes are facts. Its causes often are not. and feelings never are facts. imo).
Mind the endless twisting torture applied to feelings and opinions so they can be shaped into confessing my facts are the facts.
In general, mind the awful product the NFl is putting out and hard to care about it as time goes on and it slowly gets worse. That, of course, is a feeling
2) Mind the magical thinking that some posters know just what owners and managers are thinking
3) Mind asserting outcomes and conclusions before they occur
4) Mind " my opinion" and feelings are a fact and yours isn't. (Nothing about football causality is so easily certain that "facts" describe many of its interpretations. Its outcomes are facts. Its causes often are not. and feelings never are facts. imo).
Mind the endless twisting torture applied to feelings and opinions so they can be shaped into confessing my facts are the facts.
In general, mind the awful product the NFl is putting out and hard to care about it as time goes on and it slowly gets worse. That, of course, is a feeling
👏
Well said Bill.
The Patriots were booed off of their home field last night. The PATRIOTS. Think about that.....
One of the owners holds the highest player personnel position in the organization since 2011 and other family members are also a big part of the player acquisition process. Each fan can consider the ramifications of that as they please but not pretend its not a fact
The team has been losing for 70% of a decade now. You seem very, very sensitive. Are you a millennial by any chance?
Yeah he's definitely not a boomer, those guys are never sensitive about anything. Except that time when every boomer in the country went ballistic because a football player kneeled.
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The team has been losing for 70% of a decade now. You seem very, very sensitive. Are you a millennial by any chance?
Yeah he's definitely not a boomer, those guys are never sensitive about anything. Except that time when every boomer in the country went ballistic because a football player kneeled.
Cool. Should I name everytime millennials went nuts over the past few years? We'd be here awhile.
Tone it down a little. It will lead to better conversations about the team.
I agree. And there are at least a dozen or so regular (long-time) posters on this board who are quick to name-call and throw out words like calling people "stupid", "idiot", "dumb fuck" and things like that immediately when they see a post they don't agree with 100%. I've found over the years (but moreso recently) posters I've never had a problem with nor wanted to start any problem with will just randomly turn to personal attacks and the "internet tough-guy" bullshit simply because they disagree. It's disgusting. Even if this is the internet and you have the safety of sitting behind a screen thousands of miles away from the people you direct your hate and vitriol towards, this is still a community of people, and there are certain things said on this board that I know for a fact no one would say in person or in public. When you realize they wouldn't say these things to anyone's actual face on the street, it's sad to then understand they're clearly using this forum to simply release whatever hate and anger they have inside them that they can't release in the outside world.
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The team has been losing for 70% of a decade now. You seem very, very sensitive. Are you a millennial by any chance?
Yeah he's definitely not a boomer, those guys are never sensitive about anything. Except that time when every boomer in the country went ballistic because a football player kneeled.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact boomers are closer to the last wars than later folks? Perspective is everything. I dont like when people criticize something they know nothing about.
One of the owners holds the highest player personnel position in the organization since 2011 and other family members are also a big part of the player acquisition process. Each fan can consider the ramifications of that as they please but not pretend its not a fact
This is a fair observation. This is the 30th season since 1990. Consider:
- Of those 30 seasons there have been 13 losing records...6 of those 13 in the last 7 seasons
- 6 division titles 30 seasons, only 1 in the last 10 seasons
- 10 10+ win seasons, only 2 in the last 10 seasons
- 5 last place divisional finishes, 3 in the last 3 seasons
Something is wrong. This is the worst Giants team in at least 3 decades. It's fair to dispense with optimism and ask why this is happening.
The drive by posts (and I admit guilt), don't do much.
I ask myself pretty regularly, why am I posting this? If the answer isn't I'm offering something new or wanting to learn something new, I try to delete.
The Giants bad, no Giants awesome exchanges IMV are natural, and swing proportionate to the record of the team.
I agree in principle with Bill and Dan and would add extreme opinions should also come with at least a cursory attempt at thinking before posting.
Like the op said, the giants way has worked before and how soon we forget how this place was going ape shit against Ernie Accorsi and the same giants way prior to 2005.
Its not an open and shut case no matter how some here want to spin It. It was a simple explanation we wouldnt be in this mess. Basically its death by a thousand cuts, or bad draft picks.
We need fucking talent. Talent in the coaching staff and talent on the field. Dont over think it.
Who's adding the talent? Who's hiring the coaches?
And the idea that angry, pessimistic voices are more common-place now on BBI doesn't mean the sentiment is off base. Plenty of good conversations, debates and hey...even some recommendations that if these last few regimes followed, we would have this franchise in much better shape than today.
Its a fan site...if you only want to hang when things are going well then you really aren't a fan in my book...
Like the op said, the giants way has worked before and how soon we forget how this place was going ape shit against Ernie Accorsi and the same giants way prior to 2005.
Its not an open and shut case no matter how some here want to spin It. It was a simple explanation we wouldnt be in this mess. Basically its death by a thousand cuts, or bad draft picks.
We need fucking talent. Talent in the coaching staff and talent on the field. Dont over think it.
The "Giants Way" worked once - from 1983 to 1991. It then broke when GY couldn't figure out the cap model, and he lost his fastball on evaluating college talent.
If not for six weeks when Eli got blazing hot - three in 2008 and three in 2012 - the SB slump would still exist...
Good job.
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Since 1990 the Giants have 25 out 29 seasons without a single playoff win. Most of the time they've been mediocre or worse. That doesnt mean 3 super bowl appearances and 2 wins arent celebrated. But you are what your record says you are.
One of the owners holds the highest player personnel position in the organization since 2011 and other family members are also a big part of the player acquisition process. Each fan can consider the ramifications of that as they please but not pretend its not a fact
This is a fair observation. This is the 30th season since 1990. Consider:
- Of those 30 seasons there have been 13 losing records...6 of those 13 in the last 7 seasons
- 6 division titles 30 seasons, only 1 in the last 10 seasons
- 10 10+ win seasons, only 2 in the last 10 seasons
- 5 last place divisional finishes, 3 in the last 3 seasons
Something is wrong. This is the worst Giants team in at least 3 decades. It's fair to dispense with optimism and ask why this is happening.
GoTerps and Arnie
The Giants are I believe 7th in playoff victories. Dallas is ahead of them. The NFC East has historically been the best defense. I agree losing sucks and it has been too long. It is however, very hard to win in the NFL. Lack of competitiveness is the negative which will be fixed when the lines are.
So as bad as you may think it is.......
yes this team needs more talent. yes it sucks that we don't have any good 4th/5th year players to resign who are worthy of 2nd contracts. But just because those are evergreen statements that go all the way back 7 years doesn't mean there's 1 person who is accountable to the entirety of those results. That's why the previous regime is the previous regime and a new regime was brought in.
an overabundance of bad decisions at multiple levels over 7-10 years (and some bad injury luck over that time - Nicks, JPP, Cruz) is what got us here. The only way over the hump is enough good decisions at multiple levels and that wasn't going to happen in 1 year. I don't know if the current FO will be the ones to get them over the hump or not but for some however there is no such thing as progress and they've warped Barkley into Ron Dayne and Jones into Dave Brown when IMO they clearly have the talents to be part of the solution if the rest of the organization can get its act together around them.
The hiring of DG/PS can certainly be portrayed as a continuation of poor decisions by John Mara, but it's absolutely insane to act like the current regime bears responsibility for the failings of the previous one. Gettleman left the organization for 5 years and his first act when came back was canning Marc Ross and changing their draft process.
The Patriots were booed off of their home field last night. The PATRIOTS. Think about that.....
I would say that's more the unacceptable extreme than anything going on among Giants fans.
They are not incompetents like Dolan. yes they are
They are not pinching pennies on the field like the Wilponzis. they're in a capped league, so this is basically irrelevant.
They did not name themselves and children total control as GM like Jerry Jones has, and they certainly didn't run Jimmy Johnson and a dynasty out the door over ego. well, they do have an owner/heir acting as the GM's lieutenant while his brother is the GM's boss, so I'm not sure you can say this. And they did choose Handley over Belichick at one point, so is ego the real problem or can we go back up to #1?
They have had a bad half decade of leadership evaluations. A very bad half decade. Some of that was clouded by unlikely successes and nostalgia for those successes but that's not an excuse, they need to do better. But I think they will be a lot quicker to admit that than Dolan will admit he's incompetent, the Wilpons to stop being cheap (apparently only MLB debt limits could do that), or Jerry Jones to give up his GM title.
Thats the point. There has been rearranging of deckchairs on the titanic.
We want a new boat OP. This organization is lost.
Agreed. Every decision this franchise makes should be challenged and questioned until they start acting like a well run NFL franchise, not a mom and pop diner.
True fans invest a lot of themselves in the team. We have a right to blast management just like shareholders in a tanking corporation blast management.
I don't think that it's a big deal. The owners are successful businessmen. They know the fans are going to over-react. John Mara isn't going to come hear, and read the comments, and break down.
The fans might be doing them a favor by complaining so loudly. The owners have a natural inclination to giving their choices another year or two before they admit that they screwed up. Fan complaints pressure them into acting right away.
By the usual suspects who spend all day bashing the organization and do it proudly