Yes it's a lot of dead money but its also 6 million more vs. keeping him on the team.
Then go OL in 2nd round.
Castonzo-Hernendez-Biadasz-Zietler-Remmers
That's 2 big upgrades in our weakest OL spots.
We NEED to finally fix this OL once and for all.
Draft:
Chase Young rd 1, Tyler Biadasz rd 2
Resign Golden, Williams
Trenches suddenly look real good next year hopefully with a better DC,OC and OL coach to boot
Oh bullshit. Signing an average LT to top LT money is a horrendous decision no matter which way you slice it. It's even worse when you consider the Giants had zero chance to win the year they signed him.
Poorly run organizations are the ones who sign mediocre players to huge money.
They suck with Solder and they could have sucked without him.
They then went on to win the Super Bowl with a left tackle that they acquired from the 49ers for a swap of picks in the 100's.
Anyone who says the giants had no choice but to sign Solder should be slapped silly for being so stupid. It's some of the dumbest shit I've ever read on BBI.
That's a loser mentality. A dumb mentality. They had every reason not to sign him and still did. No matter what situation you are in, you NEVER pay average players top dollar.
The Patriots winning a Super Bowl AFTER letting Solder walk with no one behind him proves the argument that Gettleman had no choice but to sign Solder wrong.
As I said previously, if I'm only allowed to fire one of Gettleman or Shurmur, I'm firing Gettleman. He is doing damage to this franchise that will take years to recover from. Pat Shurmur's damage will end the day he is fired.
Gettleman's asinine decisions will be felt for years to come. The decision to bring Eli back trickled down and caused the Giants to have to restructure a player that sucks and lose 5 million in 2020 cap space. So bringing Eli back essentially cost the Giants over 20 million dollars in 2020 cap space. Because they could have rolled over eli's savings and not had to restructure the turnstile that is Nate Solder.
It's amazing that even one person defends Dave Gettleman here. What the fuck has this guy done for the giants that has earned him the benefit of the doubt? He's a fuck. He's ruining this franchise much more than Pat Shurmur is.
I still feel like you’re joking but I’m seriously asking who would you have signed if not Solder? Basically every expert said that Solder was “virtually the only true starting left tackle available in FA” that year (see link below as the example I found but there were many other examples of the same thing being said). The only other option (which in hindsight may have turned out better in the long run) would have been to go into the 2018 season with no Left Tackle, and no one capable of protecting Eli’s blindside on the entire team. It would have basically just been putting up a white flag and also asking for our HOF QB to be sent to the hospital on a weekly basis. Of course it turned out to be a shitty season anyway and Eli got sacked I think more than anyone else in the league, but what plan of action would have led to a better outcome as far as the left tackle position was concerned?
I think we would all agree that while Solder was not worthy of becoming the highest paid OL in the league, if he had just been as advertised (I.e. an above average starting LT) we all would have been fine with the contract. Even if he was just an average starter it wouldn’t be so bad. But he’s absolutely awful. And to be honest I still think that this has been the case with so many players who have come here (including Zeitler) that it simply doesn’t make sense to flat out say these guys suck, I think it has to be blamed on the coaching to some extent. Remember when Collinsworth was in awe at the fact Omameh and Flowers couldn’t identify a simple stunt? That’s a coaching oversight, and I think the problems run deep with Shurmur and his staff.
That contract is going to be awful to eat. I’d say if possible we should give it 1 more year and see if a new coach can’t make Solder look like a respectable football player again be it either with scheme, strategy, a better OL coach, anything.
Solder at #16 overall FA in 2018 (scroll down) - ( New Window )
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so DG signed him. He had no choice.
Oh bullshit. Signing an average LT to top LT money is a horrendous decision no matter which way you slice it. It's even worse when you consider the Giants had zero chance to win the year they signed him.
Poorly run organizations are the ones who sign mediocre players to huge money.
They suck with Solder and they could have sucked without him.
Mook— no one could have foreseen Solder sucking this badly. I agree in hindsight it would have been better to just leave a hole at that position (sign some schlub) and what Eli would have been sacked 75 times instead of 67 times (or something) and we’d have saved a hell of a lot of cap room. But at the time everyone really believed that solder was going to be an above average starting LT. If he had turned out to be just that I don’t think we’d be complaining so much right now. Some players cost more than they should due to position/circumstance, and LT is one position I can live with overpaying a bit. But it’s the fact that he’s so bad that we would be better off putting up a scarecrow at that position and therefore it’s a total waste of money and now we're talking about cutting him and eating the dead cap. But we couldn’t have known he was going to be this bad and as I just said I think the one common denominator in all these players suddenly sucking when they come to NYG the last 2 years is Shurmur.
...priceless.
Thats a ridiculous take. Way to give DG a pass for an awful free agent signing
Gettleman's asinine decisions will be felt for years to come. The decision to bring Eli back trickled down and caused the Giants to have to restructure a player that sucks and lose 5 million in 2020 cap space. So bringing Eli back essentially cost the Giants over 20 million dollars in 2020 cap space. Because they could have rolled over eli's savings and not had to restructure the turnstile that is Nate Solder.
It's amazing that even one person defends Dave Gettleman here. What the fuck has this guy done for the giants that has earned him the benefit of the doubt? He's a fuck. He's ruining this franchise much more than Pat Shurmur is.
Preach Mook !
But I was told by the masses that Gettelman had upgraded the entire offensive line and we would be able to run the ball better and protect the QB better.
Are you sure?
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so DG signed him. He had no choice.
Oh bullshit. Signing an average LT to top LT money is a horrendous decision no matter which way you slice it. It's even worse when you consider the Giants had zero chance to win the year they signed him.
Poorly run organizations are the ones who sign mediocre players to huge money.
They suck with Solder and they could have sucked without him.
No, Jimmy's right. It was DG's only choice. Just read BBI - all the DG-defenders will tell you every chance they get.
Nevermind that DG actually wanted Norwell that offseason which would have precluded Solder. Nevermind that the Patriots pivoted away from Solder and got better production from his replacement than we got from Solder himself. Nevermind that we should have been rebuilding and that we wouldn't have needed a market-setting OLT if we weren't erroneously trying to build the roster for one more run with an immobile, old QB.
Solder was DG's only option. Goodell may even have mandated it. Or God, when he had his hands all over Barkley.
No we don’t. Cutting Slder gets us $6.5m in cap space.
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We’d have a 13.5 million cap hit. It’s very unlikely he’d get cut. All you can do is switch him to RT and hope for the best.
No we don’t. Cutting Slder gets us $6.5m in cap space.
And $13.5M in dead money. And you'd still need to find a new OLT, so you're either spending more than $6.5M, or using one of your premium picks to find a prospect that you possibly wouldn't plug in immediately at OLT anyway.
The dead money matters just as much as the implied net cap gain. It's silly to ignore the dead money, especially when it's two-thirds of the calculation here.
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In comment 14711683 JoeyBigBlue said:
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We’d have a 13.5 million cap hit. It’s very unlikely he’d get cut. All you can do is switch him to RT and hope for the best.
No we don’t. Cutting Slder gets us $6.5m in cap space.
And $13.5M in dead money. And you'd still need to find a new OLT, so you're either spending more than $6.5M, or using one of your premium picks to find a prospect that you possibly wouldn't plug in immediately at OLT anyway.
The dead money matters just as much as the implied net cap gain. It's silly to ignore the dead money, especially when it's two-thirds of the calculation here.
The post said we’d have a 13.5m cap hit. That’s wrong. That’s what I said. Dead money is a sunk cost. It’s not the critical number when deciding on cutting a player. Bottom line keeping Solder costs you $6.5m more than cutting him.
There is no money to eat. Keeping him costs $6.5m more than cutting him.
If you can find a guy for $6.5 mil that will play better than him, even on a 1 year deal, make the cut and do it. He's been horrible this year and his presence on the field hurts our team.
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so DG signed him. He had no choice.
not sure if this is sarcasm but its how i see it.
the OL was an embarrassment and at thge time solder was a quality LT. we needed someone of quality....it really isnt hard to see imo. hindsight is perfect vision and now i want him gone as bad as anyone but att he time...it was the right thing to do
Exactly, It wasn't like he passed up all these better options.
The pickings were slim. Just like when he tabbed Shurmur (probably with ownership making te final decision).
We need to move on this offseason. A vet stabilizing force at LT. Castonzo is needs to be that guy. But most importantly better coaching.
sign conklin and draft biadasz in round 2. then in mid rounds we take two OTs and hope one develops
sooo
solder-hernandez-biadasz-zeitler-conklin
you can bring back remmers as a swing guy and you have 2 OTs plus big george as your three OTs to develop long term.
one of those will be a 3rd round pick so who is to say it doesnt work out, it certainly can.
Remmers right now is adequate at RT compared with the urgency of what were dealing with at LT.
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id be all for this, but more likely route is
sign conklin and draft biadasz in round 2. then in mid rounds we take two OTs and hope one develops
sooo
solder-hernandez-biadasz-zeitler-conklin
you can bring back remmers as a swing guy and you have 2 OTs plus big george as your three OTs to develop long term.
one of those will be a 3rd round pick so who is to say it doesnt work out, it certainly can.
Remmers right now is adequate at RT compared with the urgency of what were dealing with at LT.
No he isn't. Remmers is as bad as Solder.
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In comment 14711683 JoeyBigBlue said:
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We’d have a 13.5 million cap hit. It’s very unlikely he’d get cut. All you can do is switch him to RT and hope for the best.
No we don’t. Cutting Slder gets us $6.5m in cap space.
And $13.5M in dead money. And you'd still need to find a new OLT, so you're either spending more than $6.5M, or using one of your premium picks to find a prospect that you possibly wouldn't plug in immediately at OLT anyway.
The dead money matters just as much as the implied net cap gain. It's silly to ignore the dead money, especially when it's two-thirds of the calculation here.
With the way Solder is playing his entire salary is dead money. By cutting him you recoup 6.5 mill of it.
We need to stabilize that side. You structure the cap hit on Castonzo's first year to be lower.
If you can find a guy for $6.5 mil that will play better than him, even on a 1 year deal, make the cut and do it. He's been horrible this year and his presence on the field hurts our team.
You don’t need to find a guy for $6.5m that plays better than him. The $6.5m is a discount on his replacement at any cost.
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In comment 14711652 BleedBlue said:
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id be all for this, but more likely route is
sign conklin and draft biadasz in round 2. then in mid rounds we take two OTs and hope one develops
sooo
solder-hernandez-biadasz-zeitler-conklin
you can bring back remmers as a swing guy and you have 2 OTs plus big george as your three OTs to develop long term.
one of those will be a 3rd round pick so who is to say it doesnt work out, it certainly can.
Remmers right now is adequate at RT compared with the urgency of what were dealing with at LT.
No he isn't. Remmers is as bad as Solder.
Disagree, no one is saying Remmers is playing amazing but right now he is doing pretty well compared to Solder.
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Yes the math says if he stays we pay him $19.5 Mil and yes we only save $6.5 mil by cutting him, meaning there is $13mil in (dead money), but the reality is that paying a guy $19.5mil to play to be the worst LT in football is the real dead money.
If you can find a guy for $6.5 mil that will play better than him, even on a 1 year deal, make the cut and do it. He's been horrible this year and his presence on the field hurts our team.
You don’t need to find a guy for $6.5m that plays better than him. The $6.5m is a discount on his replacement at any cost.
Exactly. And you can structure the year 1 cap hit to be lower and then in 2021 most if not all Solder's salary will be off the cap replaced by Castonzo's higher year 2 hit.
That mistake was on management, and there is no way its acceptable to keep a POS in the locker room because he's too expensive to cut. The message to the other players has to be crystal clear.
2021 is when we cut him if he doesn't improve.
That mistake was on management, and there is no way its acceptable to keep a POS in the locker room because he's too expensive to cut. The message to the other players has to be crystal clear.
This is a brutal take. So he's a piece of shit? And dead cap rules do exist, the players know that. Not cutting Solder has nothing to do with message sending, its likely a horrible move economically.
2021 is when we cut him if he doesn't improve.
The minimum move would be bringing in a vet guy who can play LT and moving Solder over to RT. Once again, the dead money is big but his ENTIRE salary is dead money right now.
Gettleman's asinine decisions will be felt for years to come. The decision to bring Eli back trickled down and caused the Giants to have to restructure a player that sucks and lose 5 million in 2020 cap space. So bringing Eli back essentially cost the Giants over 20 million dollars in 2020 cap space. Because they could have rolled over eli's savings and not had to restructure the turnstile that is Nate Solder.
It's amazing that even one person defends Dave Gettleman here. What the fuck has this guy done for the giants that has earned him the benefit of the doubt? He's a fuck. He's ruining this franchise much more than Pat Shurmur is.
If we're being honest, the Solder restructure only cost the Giants $2.5M in 2020 cap space.
And $2.5M in 2021 cap space.
Warning bells going off with that guy.
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and I can easily see him bouncing back if we get someone more competent coaching him/the line. And unless we draft a LT early or pay a ton for another top FA at the position, we likely won't find someone better than him anyway.
2021 is when we cut him if he doesn't improve.
The minimum move would be bringing in a vet guy who can play LT and moving Solder over to RT. Once again, the dead money is big but his ENTIRE salary is dead money right now.
Very little difference between LT and RT in today's NFL. The notion that RT will be easier for him and solve the problem is outdated thinking.
I have no idea if he's finished or if its something he can clean up enough to simply be average.
I have no idea if he's finished or if its something he can clean up enough to simply be average.
That's a resonable well-thought-out stance. Don't you know we're supposed to overreact and scream at one another? Get with the program.
Cap space is gained by dumping Solder. Yes, you have to replace him, but a solid argument is that you have to replace him anyhow, so the 6.5 mil is a plus.
The only real question is what options are available to replace him. There's a 3 mil roster bonus due day one of new season, so you can't really wait (or be willing to eat 3 mil to see him through FA/draft/camp, reducing the savings to 3.5 mil).
It may boil down to Solder being a hold your nose and put up with the stench, but if any options arise, it is easy to dump him.
I'm referring to the penchant for quick easy answers hurled with exclamation points by people that have little knowledge and fewer answers.
Simply saying "Solder sucks herp derp" is a quick easy answer. He played fairly well in New England. We have been unable to put together a decent OL no matter who we suit up and put out there. Maybe Solder forgot how to play, but it would appear there is something bigger going on with coaching and player developmemt.
It's not unreasonable to suggest that just maybe Solder could be adequate under a different regime, and that maybe they should let a new regime evaluate him before eating the dead money and starting over (an overreaction).
Well there's kicking and screaming and then there's actual pragmatic ways of handling something.
Cutting him just because he sucks right now is very irrational. When he isn't the only OL sucking i'm guessing the problem isn't just with the individual player/s.
And that might be true. But he also worked out fairly well in his career despite being a top LT. And that is precisely where coaching and scheme come into factor.
Hiring a new staff doesn't effect the cap, and that would be my first attempt at fixing the line prior to making any huge cuts that can do worse damage down the road.
...priceless.
It was. Giants story in a bottle -- in a single botched play.