The amount of blind support for this guy is baffling to me. He is really bad at his job and the game has passed him by. He is terrible about asset allocation which is of most important with a hard capped sporty.
No more half measures. The people that want Shurmur fired and not DG are clueless. How do you expect to hire the right coach if all it’s going to take for one more likely bad season then you fire the GM and saddle him with a coach he didn’t pick?
That’s what the Jets do. The giants need to fire both. Get a football opp guy in to pick his own coach and go from there.
Agree to disagree. The OBJ move is debatable. We took a big dead money hit for him, and I’m not sure the return was great. Also, I’m certain the absence of OBJ and having to scheme for him, hurt Barkley big time this season.
His drama being off the team is a plus, and his contract being off the books will be a plus. Hence, why I didn’t outright call it terrible. But it’s certainly debatable.
Not debatable at all. We sold high in this case!
DG outright bamboozled Cleveland GM whippersnapper with his analytics.
The amount of blind support for this guy is baffling to me. He is really bad at his job and the game has passed him by. He is terrible about asset allocation which is of most important with a hard capped sporty.
No more half measures. The people that want Shurmur fired and not DG are clueless. How do you expect to hire the right coach if all it’s going to take for one more likely bad season then you fire the GM and saddle him with a coach he didn’t pick?
That’s what the Jets do. The giants need to fire both. Get a football opp guy in to pick his own coach and go from there.
Hiring wco weenie coaches with laminated sheets in their face is a baffling pattern that precedes DG.
RE: RE: RE: I'd been in Gettlemans corner until last night...... Â
watching Ogletree and Mayo look like Laurel and Hardy and Solder look like roadkill just irked me. The plan he had in Jan of 2018 has had no improvement. Maybe we have our next QB. Maybe we have a running back. Other than that its as clear as mud. Sorry, the only clear thing is Shurmur and this coaching staff is sad and incompetent and should be out come seasons end.
every team “has a running back”. It’s the easiest position in the league to fill.
Myth. Not every team has a great running back. Not even close actually. And the teams that do run well are doing so because of coaching, qb play and OL.
Imagine having a great rb within a great system and qb... try it out.
If the giants ever become a good team again, Barkley will be everyone’s favorite player. He’s the engine.
Not if they don't actually get good for another 3-4 years.
Here's the question any incoming GM/head coach is going to have to ask about Jones: "Assuming he doesn't get hurt, in 2 years am I going to want to pay him $40M a year for 4 years?"
That's what happened with Goff and Wentz. It's about to happen with Prescott.
If the answer to that question is not an immediate and resounding "YES!", then going in a different direction at QB has to be an option on the table.
Honestly how have the "next big thing" QBs looked? They've all shown flashes of greatness certainly, but also been pretty meh. Injuries are certainly a factor (Wentz, Mahomes this season), but everyone who's supposed to come take the torch from Brady/Brees/Rodgers hasn't. And just look at last year's #1, after all the hype he generated compared to what he's done (and the Brown's on general) this year.
It's far too soon to say if DJ8 is the franchise QB. All the young QBs seem to be volatile. If a new GM wants his own QB he should be allowed to have his own QB.
That said even with a new GM I think Jones will be the QB through next season
"The next big thing" QBs includes Daniel Jones...he was picked #6 overall as the central building block for the organization. Now usually you don't get a shot at picking a better QB prospect a year after you just picked a QB, but the Giants are actually going to be a worse team this year, and there is a better prospect available in Burrow. It's an unusual situation.
I think an objective evaluation of Jones v. Burrow has Burrow the better prospect. If that's the case, I think you have to pick Burrow if he's available to you.
I'm just taking the value of the position angle...not specific players.
I could have lived with a QB, Edge, OL...
I would not have been happy with any of the top 4 QBs at #2. This is not revisionist history, before I am accused of it, but shortly before the draft I was on record aas saying I would draft Barkley OR trade down and my target to trade down was Jackson. I said he might end up the best QB of the bunch and was incorrectly being held out of the top group. That was more an indictment of the other 4 than anything else, but I thought he had the least worries/risks. And, to take a QB, I'd rather have extra picks and Jackson than Darnold, for example, at #2.
That said, I don't think Jackson would have been as successful here because he doesn't fit the mold of QB or system this organization wants to run.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'd been in Gettlemans corner until last night...... Â
If the giants ever become a good team again, Barkley will be everyone’s favorite player. He’s the engine.
By the time the Giants are good again, Barkley will either be gone or finished. He's this generation's Rodney Hampton.
He's going to put on weight and become a bruising style back???
Hampton did that because that is what was forced upon him. He played with a terrible OL and no WRs; he was asked to run the ball up the gut 30 times a game. He was a much more dynamic player than how we used him.
Shared psychotic disorder, also known as folie à deux or psychosis by association, is a relatively rare delusional disorder involving two (or more) people with close emotional ties.
But, realistically, I don't have any confidence in ownership to hire a successful replacement. I think we may be better off with retaining him and allowing him to truly hire the HC of his choice and then allow that HC to hire an entire coaching staff.
Gettleman is 68 years old and will be 69 in february.
He inherited a ton of assets and high draft picks and contrary to DG fluffer's belief, a good (not great) cap situation.
He pretended this team could contend. He pretended he was rebuilding and winning at the same time. He talked tough and was the smartest guy in the room. He failed to properly analyze the talent level of the team he inherited, the coach he hired, the coaches on the staff, the proper allocation of assets that he was given and/or accumulated or the talent of the free agents he signed.
The vision for the team is what? Other than hog mollies I have no idea. We are big and slow and other teams are way more athletic. He understands positional value and asset allocation like Shurmur understands spreading the field and spacing.
With all of the assets he had, you should expect that some of the picks can play. And he has picked a few guys that can play. The fact remains, however, that he squandered two years where he should have been accumulating assets and rebuilding by pretending they were contenders. He has traded picks away rather than stockpiling them and has shown no ability to have a plan for the future of the team and franchise.
This team needs a clean break and real rebuild. He has to go. Time for new blood in the FO.
Gettleman is 68 years old and will be 69 in february.
He inherited a ton of assets and high draft picks and contrary to DG fluffer's belief, a good (not great) cap situation.
He pretended this team could contend. He pretended he was rebuilding and winning at the same time. He talked tough and was the smartest guy in the room. He failed to properly analyze the talent level of the team he inherited, the coach he hired, the coaches on the staff, the proper allocation of assets that he was given and/or accumulated or the talent of the free agents he signed.
The vision for the team is what? Other than hog mollies I have no idea. We are big and slow and other teams are way more athletic. He understands positional value and asset allocation like Shurmur understands spreading the field and spacing.
With all of the assets he had, you should expect that some of the picks can play. And he has picked a few guys that can play. The fact remains, however, that he squandered two years where he should have been accumulating assets and rebuilding by pretending they were contenders. He has traded picks away rather than stockpiling them and has shown no ability to have a plan for the future of the team and franchise.
This team needs a clean break and real rebuild. He has to go. Time for new blood in the FO.
do we know for a FACT it was him who thought we could win? mara could have said we are going for one last run with eli...what would you say? nah ill stay unemployed lol.
its a business too...
I think DG has drafted well. i wont cry if he is shown the door, but he takes a wild amount of blame here....there is plenty to go around, but DG is prob one of the last i hammer with blame. mara sure...shurmur? absolutely....eagles took his lunch in that second half
You would be trading Daniel Jones & Chase Young for Joe Burrow - is that a trade you’d make?
If we're picking #1 and I have that choice (like I said above if we're picking #2 the conditions are different), I'd probably do it. I'm also getting something in return (possibly a first rounder) for trading Jones.
I believe ownership wants a franchise QB to be here for the next 10 years (it's not what I'd do, but it's the reality). If we hitch the wagon to the wrong QB I don't know that Chase Young makes up for that in the long term.
I don't like some of the things I see with Jones. There are too many big negative plays. We lived with that with Eli because he was huge in the big games...I read today that over the course of his career he was 8-1 against the spread as a playoff underdog. Ridiculous. It's impossible to imagine Jones approaching anything like that to make up for the negative plays. And I'm also not certain that it's something that can be coached out of him. It never got coached out of Eli; if anything it got beat out of him and he became a checkdown QB.
As much as I think there's a different way to do it, the reality is that this is a franchise QB league. We've got to get that position right, and it's mathematically unlikely we'll have another pick this high any time soon that lines up with a year with a QB prospect like Burrow that is, I think, much better than Jones.
If we have the #1 pick overall we can trade Jones well before the draft to maximize the value in return. It's not like we can get jumped by anyone else for Burrow.
Arizona really bungled the Rosen situation; I don't think we'd be doomed to the same meager return in a trade for Jones.
If we have the #1 pick overall we can trade Jones well before the draft to maximize the value in return. It's not like we can get jumped by anyone else for Burrow.
Arizona really bungled the Rosen situation; I don't think we'd be doomed to the same meager return in a trade for Jones.
Why do you think Burrow, a guy on a team LOADED with talent is better than Jones? Not being a dick, I am seriously asking?
If we have the #1 pick overall we can trade Jones well before the draft to maximize the value in return. It's not like we can get jumped by anyone else for Burrow.
Arizona really bungled the Rosen situation; I don't think we'd be doomed to the same meager return in a trade for Jones.
okay so i have you on record saying burrow is a sure fire thing before playing an NFL down. he is better than jones in your opinion....
i hate to root against a kid, but you make it easy lol.
you make these wild assumptions and GUESSES. thats what they are. its a guess, you have NO football expertise at all to make the decision or call. you are just everything anti-giant. im serious....root for the jets man or the pats...you would have less to complain about
Watch him play. He's cleaner in the pocket, decisive, gets through his reads quickly. Jones does some of that too...he throws the ball really well...but where Burrow separates is his pocket presence and decision making.
It seems pretty obvious to me. I thought this was universally accepted...
Gettleman is 68 years old and will be 69 in february.
He inherited a ton of assets and high draft picks and contrary to DG fluffer's belief, a good (not great) cap situation.
He pretended this team could contend. He pretended he was rebuilding and winning at the same time. He talked tough and was the smartest guy in the room. He failed to properly analyze the talent level of the team he inherited, the coach he hired, the coaches on the staff, the proper allocation of assets that he was given and/or accumulated or the talent of the free agents he signed.
The vision for the team is what? Other than hog mollies I have no idea. We are big and slow and other teams are way more athletic. He understands positional value and asset allocation like Shurmur understands spreading the field and spacing.
With all of the assets he had, you should expect that some of the picks can play. And he has picked a few guys that can play. The fact remains, however, that he squandered two years where he should have been accumulating assets and rebuilding by pretending they were contenders. He has traded picks away rather than stockpiling them and has shown no ability to have a plan for the future of the team and franchise.
This team needs a clean break and real rebuild. He has to go. Time for new blood in the FO.
do we know for a FACT it was him who thought we could win? mara could have said we are going for one last run with eli...what would you say? nah ill stay unemployed lol.
its a business too...
I think DG has drafted well. i wont cry if he is shown the door, but he takes a wild amount of blame here....there is plenty to go around, but DG is prob one of the last i hammer with blame. mara sure...shurmur? absolutely....eagles took his lunch in that second half
Gettleman is part of the problem. If they are serious about doing things differently he has to go.
Watch him play. He's cleaner in the pocket, decisive, gets through his reads quickly. Jones does some of that too...he throws the ball really well...but where Burrow separates is his pocket presence and decision making.
It seems pretty obvious to me. I thought this was universally accepted...
Terps I think your point is going to be moot as I don't see us leap-frogging Cincy for the top pick.
Watch him play. He's cleaner in the pocket, decisive, gets through his reads quickly. Jones does some of that too...he throws the ball really well...but where Burrow separates is his pocket presence and decision making.
It seems pretty obvious to me. I thought this was universally accepted...
Terps I think your point is going to be moot as I don't see us leap-frogging Cincy for the top pick.
I actually think there's a chance. Cincinnati plays Miami and Cleveland (in Cincy).
Just have to hope the Giants lose out. Not just for the pick, but to cement Gettleman's exit.
If we have the #1 pick overall we can trade Jones well before the draft to maximize the value in return. It's not like we can get jumped by anyone else for Burrow.
Arizona really bungled the Rosen situation; I don't think we'd be doomed to the same meager return in a trade for Jones.
I'd rather hitch my wagon to Jones but if the Giants did this I wouldn't be opposed. The idea is not entirely without merit.
Watch him play. He's cleaner in the pocket, decisive, gets through his reads quickly. Jones does some of that too...he throws the ball really well...but where Burrow separates is his pocket presence and decision making.
It seems pretty obvious to me. I thought this was universally accepted...
yes he is a better prospect.....thats about it. who knows how he plays when he gets to the NFL. jones accuracy you cannot teach...i think he is going to be good. regardless....young is the guy we should come away with in april
Has given us more doubts then answers, I love the real tough guy crew that called me an idiot when we drafted Barkley and passed on Allen and Darnold. I said fire Shurmur after last season, bad is bad, and he is pathetic, I said he was worse then Handley, this crew chose to put all the blame on Eli Manning, now you suffer, and then they declared victory after the Redskin game, how does that look now.
If you say Jones is a franchise QB, you are clueless, there are things that are alarmingly bad about this player. He is no leader, he is pretty slow thinking, he holds the ball way too long due to his slow thinking and then doesn't as soon as he is hit, and he is already hurt. But the same crowd that killed me over defending Eli that he was not the main problem, the same crowd that told me In Reese we Trust, and when I told them our team was build by Accorsi, they pointing to Boss, Bradshaw and Smith as the proof he was great. Building a team is more then a few picks, a lot more, and evaluating a franchise QB is a lot more then accuracy, which is something he does have, his mobility is good, but at what price, fumbles? Jones is a real mystery on whether you build your franchise around this player, right now I lean more towards no.
Trust me on this, David Jones is no sure bet to be a good QB, let alone a Super Bowl QB. That player is leaving, along with the only remaining pride in this sick organization. They better get rid of big fucking mouth Gettleman, 7 championships Gettleman, just ask the fuck, and clean house completely, then the new regime decide if Jones is worth moving forward with.
Watch him play. He's cleaner in the pocket, decisive, gets through his reads quickly. Jones does some of that too...he throws the ball really well...but where Burrow separates is his pocket presence and decision making.
It seems pretty obvious to me. I thought this was universally accepted...
The last part aside (seemed a bit snotty) I guess I don't see where Jones is that bad off but, ok. Let's play your game. Now you have drafted a QB in the first rd two drafts in a row and your Oline still sucks. What's your plan?
Has given us more doubts then answers, I love the real tough guy crew that called me an idiot when we drafted Barkley and passed on Allen and Darnold. I said fire Shurmur after last season, bad is bad, and he is pathetic, I said he was worse then Handley, this crew chose to put all the blame on Eli Manning, now you suffer, and then they declared victory after the Redskin game, how does that look now.
If you say Jones is a franchise QB, you are clueless, there are things that are alarmingly bad about this player. He is no leader, he is pretty slow thinking, he holds the ball way too long due to his slow thinking and then doesn't as soon as he is hit, and he is already hurt. But the same crowd that killed me over defending Eli that he was not the main problem, the same crowd that told me In Reese we Trust, and when I told them our team was build by Accorsi, they pointing to Boss, Bradshaw and Smith as the proof he was great. Building a team is more then a few picks, a lot more, and evaluating a franchise QB is a lot more then accuracy, which is something he does have, his mobility is good, but at what price, fumbles? Jones is a real mystery on whether you build your franchise around this player, right now I lean more towards no.
Trust me on this, David Jones is no sure bet to be a good QB, let alone a Super Bowl QB. That player is leaving, along with the only remaining pride in this sick organization. They better get rid of big fucking mouth Gettleman, 7 championships Gettleman, just ask the fuck, and clean house completely, then the new regime decide if Jones is worth moving forward with.
love the BBI scouts. THE KID HASNT PLAYED A FULL FUCKING SEASON.
why cant people understand he is a rookie in less than ideal scenario?!?
give the kid a chance. he is slow thinking?!? wtf...how can you possibly know that lol
Has given us more doubts then answers, I love the real tough guy crew that called me an idiot when we drafted Barkley and passed on Allen and Darnold. I said fire Shurmur after last season, bad is bad, and he is pathetic, I said he was worse then Handley, this crew chose to put all the blame on Eli Manning, now you suffer, and then they declared victory after the Redskin game, how does that look now.
If you say Jones is a franchise QB, you are clueless, there are things that are alarmingly bad about this player. He is no leader, he is pretty slow thinking, he holds the ball way too long due to his slow thinking and then doesn't as soon as he is hit, and he is already hurt. But the same crowd that killed me over defending Eli that he was not the main problem, the same crowd that told me In Reese we Trust, and when I told them our team was build by Accorsi, they pointing to Boss, Bradshaw and Smith as the proof he was great. Building a team is more then a few picks, a lot more, and evaluating a franchise QB is a lot more then accuracy, which is something he does have, his mobility is good, but at what price, fumbles? Jones is a real mystery on whether you build your franchise around this player, right now I lean more towards no.
Trust me on this, David Jones is no sure bet to be a good QB, let alone a Super Bowl QB. That player is leaving, along with the only remaining pride in this sick organization. They better get rid of big fucking mouth Gettleman, 7 championships Gettleman, just ask the fuck, and clean house completely, then the new regime decide if Jones is worth moving forward with.
love the BBI scouts. THE KID HASNT PLAYED A FULL FUCKING SEASON.
why cant people understand he is a rookie in less than ideal scenario?!?
give the kid a chance. he is slow thinking?!? wtf...how can you possibly know that lol
Thank you. I thought I was out in left field feeling like Jones, with some mistakes for sure, has looked pretty darn good for a Rookie with a team of average players, injured superstar RB and a fucking shitty Oline.
BTW- if Eli started the whole season our record is no better and might actually be worse. There is no way we would have beaten the Bucs with Eli playing against that Dline.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I'd been in Gettlemans corner until last night...... Â
Has given us more doubts then answers, I love the real tough guy crew that called me an idiot when we drafted Barkley and passed on Allen and Darnold. I said fire Shurmur after last season, bad is bad, and he is pathetic, I said he was worse then Handley, this crew chose to put all the blame on Eli Manning, now you suffer, and then they declared victory after the Redskin game, how does that look now.
If you say Jones is a franchise QB, you are clueless, there are things that are alarmingly bad about this player. He is no leader, he is pretty slow thinking, he holds the ball way too long due to his slow thinking and then doesn't as soon as he is hit, and he is already hurt. But the same crowd that killed me over defending Eli that he was not the main problem, the same crowd that told me In Reese we Trust, and when I told them our team was build by Accorsi, they pointing to Boss, Bradshaw and Smith as the proof he was great. Building a team is more then a few picks, a lot more, and evaluating a franchise QB is a lot more then accuracy, which is something he does have, his mobility is good, but at what price, fumbles? Jones is a real mystery on whether you build your franchise around this player, right now I lean more towards no.
Trust me on this, David Jones is no sure bet to be a good QB, let alone a Super Bowl QB. That player is leaving, along with the only remaining pride in this sick organization. They better get rid of big fucking mouth Gettleman, 7 championships Gettleman, just ask the fuck, and clean house completely, then the new regime decide if Jones is worth moving forward with.
love the BBI scouts. THE KID HASNT PLAYED A FULL FUCKING SEASON.
why cant people understand he is a rookie in less than ideal scenario?!?
give the kid a chance. he is slow thinking?!? wtf...how can you possibly know that lol
Judging by his poor grammar and sentence structure, and juvenile innuendo - I'd wager he doesn't know much at all.
My plan is to hire people that are better at scouting talent and allocating resources. If you're asking what my plan would be if I were in their shoes, it would be to identify what is on the team that's actually good. To my eye, that doesn't go far past Lawrence, Tomlinson, Slayton, and maybe Love. After that I'm liquidating everything I can for draft picks and starting fresh at every opportunity.
We were in this exact spot when we fired Reese and McAdoo. We wasted two years with incompetent leadership. Hire someone real and let them build it right.
And I'd be careful about agreeing with Bleedblue...that fucking guy breathes through gills.
My plan is to hire people that are better at scouting talent and allocating resources. If you're asking what my plan would be if I were in their shoes, it would be to identify what is on the team that's actually good. To my eye, that doesn't go far past Lawrence, Tomlinson, Slayton, and maybe Love. After that I'm liquidating everything I can for draft picks and starting fresh at every opportunity.
We were in this exact spot when we fired Reese and McAdoo. We wasted two years with incompetent leadership. Hire someone real and let them build it right.
And I'd be careful about agreeing with Bleedblue...that fucking guy breathes through gills.
thats the reality. We are in same situation as 2017. That's on Gettleman.
My plan is to hire people that are better at scouting talent and allocating resources. If you're asking what my plan would be if I were in their shoes, it would be to identify what is on the team that's actually good. To my eye, that doesn't go far past Lawrence, Tomlinson, Slayton, and maybe Love. After that I'm liquidating everything I can for draft picks and starting fresh at every opportunity.
We were in this exact spot when we fired Reese and McAdoo. We wasted two years with incompetent leadership. Hire someone real and let them build it right.
And I'd be careful about agreeing with Bleedblue...that fucking guy breathes through gills.
LMAO. so you think we have 4 good players?! barkley not on your list of keeps?
my god man, you are mentally ill. i am sure you shit on tomlinson at one point too, but now he is included in your talented player list lol
but he's a considerably better prospect than Jones. I don't think it's close.
Kid was a 4 star QB out of Ohio and just got lost in the sauce at OSU. I've heard Urban Meyer talk about him - very glowingly - and you get the impression that he thinks they didn't use him wisely at OSU. And there is some regret...
See them keep Gettleman. He is finishing year 2 of a 3-4 year rebuild after inheriting an absolute mess from Reese. His first two drafts have been relatively strong. Remember, we are one of the youngest teams in the league. We have more rookie starters than anyone, especially on defense. If we are sitting here with less than 6 or 7 wins next year I will be ready to say goodbye to Gettleman as well.
The coaching aspect concerns me more as we seem to be competitive every game but can’t close. That’s on the coaching staff. I still go back to the fact that Shurmur is the play caller. The success rate of head coaches calling plays is low across the league. They need an actual OC and a head coach that does what he is supposed to do, manage the overall team.
My plan is to hire people that are better at scouting talent and allocating resources. If you're asking what my plan would be if I were in their shoes, it would be to identify what is on the team that's actually good. To my eye, that doesn't go far past Lawrence, Tomlinson, Slayton, and maybe Love. After that I'm liquidating everything I can for draft picks and starting fresh at every opportunity.
We were in this exact spot when we fired Reese and McAdoo. We wasted two years with incompetent leadership. Hire someone real and let them build it right.
And I'd be careful about agreeing with Bleedblue...that fucking guy breathes through gills.
This would be the most aggressive overhaul of a team's roster in the history of the NFL. Stripping down the roster to literally 3 or 4 players in one off season.
How long do you reckon it would take your plan to come to fruition?
Has given us more doubts then answers, I love the real tough guy crew that called me an idiot when we drafted Barkley and passed on Allen and Darnold. I said fire Shurmur after last season, bad is bad, and he is pathetic, I said he was worse then Handley, this crew chose to put all the blame on Eli Manning, now you suffer, and then they declared victory after the Redskin game, how does that look now.
If you say Jones is a franchise QB, you are clueless, there are things that are alarmingly bad about this player. He is no leader, he is pretty slow thinking, he holds the ball way too long due to his slow thinking and then doesn't as soon as he is hit, and he is already hurt. But the same crowd that killed me over defending Eli that he was not the main problem, the same crowd that told me In Reese we Trust, and when I told them our team was build by Accorsi, they pointing to Boss, Bradshaw and Smith as the proof he was great. Building a team is more then a few picks, a lot more, and evaluating a franchise QB is a lot more then accuracy, which is something he does have, his mobility is good, but at what price, fumbles? Jones is a real mystery on whether you build your franchise around this player, right now I lean more towards no.
Trust me on this, David Jones is no sure bet to be a good QB, let alone a Super Bowl QB. That player is leaving, along with the only remaining pride in this sick organization. They better get rid of big fucking mouth Gettleman, 7 championships Gettleman, just ask the fuck, and clean house completely, then the new regime decide if Jones is worth moving forward with.
love the BBI scouts. THE KID HASNT PLAYED A FULL FUCKING SEASON.
why cant people understand he is a rookie in less than ideal scenario?!?
give the kid a chance. he is slow thinking?!? wtf...how can you possibly know that lol
That argument goes both ways. How have we seen enough to say he is a franchise QB?
but he's a considerably better prospect than Jones. I don't think it's close.
Kid was a 4 star QB out of Ohio and just got lost in the sauce at OSU. I've heard Urban Meyer talk about him - very glowingly - and you get the impression that he thinks they didn't use him wisely at OSU. And there is some regret...
See his recruiting profile below. Burrow HS recruit profile - ( New Window )
I mean - I guess. Do you think Meyer is going to come out and bash the kid?
No more half measures. The people that want Shurmur fired and not DG are clueless. How do you expect to hire the right coach if all it’s going to take for one more likely bad season then you fire the GM and saddle him with a coach he didn’t pick?
That’s what the Jets do. The giants need to fire both. Get a football opp guy in to pick his own coach and go from there.
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Agree to disagree. The OBJ move is debatable. We took a big dead money hit for him, and I’m not sure the return was great. Also, I’m certain the absence of OBJ and having to scheme for him, hurt Barkley big time this season.
His drama being off the team is a plus, and his contract being off the books will be a plus. Hence, why I didn’t outright call it terrible. But it’s certainly debatable.
Not debatable at all. We sold high in this case!
DG outright bamboozled Cleveland GM whippersnapper with his analytics.
No more half measures. The people that want Shurmur fired and not DG are clueless. How do you expect to hire the right coach if all it’s going to take for one more likely bad season then you fire the GM and saddle him with a coach he didn’t pick?
That’s what the Jets do. The giants need to fire both. Get a football opp guy in to pick his own coach and go from there.
Hiring wco weenie coaches with laminated sheets in their face is a baffling pattern that precedes DG.
By the time the Giants are good again, Barkley will either be gone or finished. He's this generation's Rodney Hampton.
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In comment 14712434 Dinger said:
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watching Ogletree and Mayo look like Laurel and Hardy and Solder look like roadkill just irked me. The plan he had in Jan of 2018 has had no improvement. Maybe we have our next QB. Maybe we have a running back. Other than that its as clear as mud. Sorry, the only clear thing is Shurmur and this coaching staff is sad and incompetent and should be out come seasons end.
every team “has a running back”. It’s the easiest position in the league to fill.
Myth. Not every team has a great running back. Not even close actually. And the teams that do run well are doing so because of coaching, qb play and OL.
Imagine having a great rb within a great system and qb... try it out.
If the giants ever become a good team again, Barkley will be everyone’s favorite player. He’s the engine.
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The numbers don't say Jones has been fine.
Here's the question any incoming GM/head coach is going to have to ask about Jones: "Assuming he doesn't get hurt, in 2 years am I going to want to pay him $40M a year for 4 years?"
That's what happened with Goff and Wentz. It's about to happen with Prescott.
If the answer to that question is not an immediate and resounding "YES!", then going in a different direction at QB has to be an option on the table.
Honestly how have the "next big thing" QBs looked? They've all shown flashes of greatness certainly, but also been pretty meh. Injuries are certainly a factor (Wentz, Mahomes this season), but everyone who's supposed to come take the torch from Brady/Brees/Rodgers hasn't. And just look at last year's #1, after all the hype he generated compared to what he's done (and the Brown's on general) this year.
It's far too soon to say if DJ8 is the franchise QB. All the young QBs seem to be volatile. If a new GM wants his own QB he should be allowed to have his own QB.
That said even with a new GM I think Jones will be the QB through next season
"The next big thing" QBs includes Daniel Jones...he was picked #6 overall as the central building block for the organization. Now usually you don't get a shot at picking a better QB prospect a year after you just picked a QB, but the Giants are actually going to be a worse team this year, and there is a better prospect available in Burrow. It's an unusual situation.
I think an objective evaluation of Jones v. Burrow has Burrow the better prospect. If that's the case, I think you have to pick Burrow if he's available to you.
And in simpler terms Burrow vs Burrow
It's Young vs Burrow
I could have lived with a QB, Edge, OL...
That said, I don't think Jackson would have been as successful here because he doesn't fit the mold of QB or system this organization wants to run.
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If the giants ever become a good team again, Barkley will be everyone’s favorite player. He’s the engine.
By the time the Giants are good again, Barkley will either be gone or finished. He's this generation's Rodney Hampton.
He's going to put on weight and become a bruising style back???
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In comment 14713171 djm said:
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If the giants ever become a good team again, Barkley will be everyone’s favorite player. He’s the engine.
By the time the Giants are good again, Barkley will either be gone or finished. He's this generation's Rodney Hampton.
He's going to put on weight and become a bruising style back???
And in simpler terms Burrow vs Burrow
If we pick #2 it probably won't be Young v. Burrow, as you'd have to expect one of them to go #1.
So if someone takes Young #1, does ownership allow the new people to draft Burrow and move Jones?
Shared psychotic disorder, also known as folie à deux or psychosis by association, is a relatively rare delusional disorder involving two (or more) people with close emotional ties.
it be burrow(if we are #1) and josh allen for jones and young
how can anyone know which side to pick. its ridiuclous...burrow can bust, jones can be a HoF.
everyone here terps included wants results overnight. DGs first draft is two years old. young guys take time to develop
exactly - thank you
He inherited a ton of assets and high draft picks and contrary to DG fluffer's belief, a good (not great) cap situation.
He pretended this team could contend. He pretended he was rebuilding and winning at the same time. He talked tough and was the smartest guy in the room. He failed to properly analyze the talent level of the team he inherited, the coach he hired, the coaches on the staff, the proper allocation of assets that he was given and/or accumulated or the talent of the free agents he signed.
The vision for the team is what? Other than hog mollies I have no idea. We are big and slow and other teams are way more athletic. He understands positional value and asset allocation like Shurmur understands spreading the field and spacing.
With all of the assets he had, you should expect that some of the picks can play. And he has picked a few guys that can play. The fact remains, however, that he squandered two years where he should have been accumulating assets and rebuilding by pretending they were contenders. He has traded picks away rather than stockpiling them and has shown no ability to have a plan for the future of the team and franchise.
This team needs a clean break and real rebuild. He has to go. Time for new blood in the FO.
He inherited a ton of assets and high draft picks and contrary to DG fluffer's belief, a good (not great) cap situation.
He pretended this team could contend. He pretended he was rebuilding and winning at the same time. He talked tough and was the smartest guy in the room. He failed to properly analyze the talent level of the team he inherited, the coach he hired, the coaches on the staff, the proper allocation of assets that he was given and/or accumulated or the talent of the free agents he signed.
The vision for the team is what? Other than hog mollies I have no idea. We are big and slow and other teams are way more athletic. He understands positional value and asset allocation like Shurmur understands spreading the field and spacing.
With all of the assets he had, you should expect that some of the picks can play. And he has picked a few guys that can play. The fact remains, however, that he squandered two years where he should have been accumulating assets and rebuilding by pretending they were contenders. He has traded picks away rather than stockpiling them and has shown no ability to have a plan for the future of the team and franchise.
This team needs a clean break and real rebuild. He has to go. Time for new blood in the FO.
do we know for a FACT it was him who thought we could win? mara could have said we are going for one last run with eli...what would you say? nah ill stay unemployed lol.
its a business too...
I think DG has drafted well. i wont cry if he is shown the door, but he takes a wild amount of blame here....there is plenty to go around, but DG is prob one of the last i hammer with blame. mara sure...shurmur? absolutely....eagles took his lunch in that second half
If we're picking #1 and I have that choice (like I said above if we're picking #2 the conditions are different), I'd probably do it. I'm also getting something in return (possibly a first rounder) for trading Jones.
I believe ownership wants a franchise QB to be here for the next 10 years (it's not what I'd do, but it's the reality). If we hitch the wagon to the wrong QB I don't know that Chase Young makes up for that in the long term.
I don't like some of the things I see with Jones. There are too many big negative plays. We lived with that with Eli because he was huge in the big games...I read today that over the course of his career he was 8-1 against the spread as a playoff underdog. Ridiculous. It's impossible to imagine Jones approaching anything like that to make up for the negative plays. And I'm also not certain that it's something that can be coached out of him. It never got coached out of Eli; if anything it got beat out of him and he became a checkdown QB.
As much as I think there's a different way to do it, the reality is that this is a franchise QB league. We've got to get that position right, and it's mathematically unlikely we'll have another pick this high any time soon that lines up with a year with a QB prospect like Burrow that is, I think, much better than Jones.
So yeah, I'd draft Burrow #1.
The precedent has been set. By the way - the move the Cards made to get Murray hasn't exactly worked out the way they thought it would.
Arizona really bungled the Rosen situation; I don't think we'd be doomed to the same meager return in a trade for Jones.
Arizona really bungled the Rosen situation; I don't think we'd be doomed to the same meager return in a trade for Jones.
Why do you think Burrow, a guy on a team LOADED with talent is better than Jones? Not being a dick, I am seriously asking?
Arizona really bungled the Rosen situation; I don't think we'd be doomed to the same meager return in a trade for Jones.
okay so i have you on record saying burrow is a sure fire thing before playing an NFL down. he is better than jones in your opinion....
i hate to root against a kid, but you make it easy lol.
you make these wild assumptions and GUESSES. thats what they are. its a guess, you have NO football expertise at all to make the decision or call. you are just everything anti-giant. im serious....root for the jets man or the pats...you would have less to complain about
It seems pretty obvious to me. I thought this was universally accepted...
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Gettleman is 68 years old and will be 69 in february.
He inherited a ton of assets and high draft picks and contrary to DG fluffer's belief, a good (not great) cap situation.
He pretended this team could contend. He pretended he was rebuilding and winning at the same time. He talked tough and was the smartest guy in the room. He failed to properly analyze the talent level of the team he inherited, the coach he hired, the coaches on the staff, the proper allocation of assets that he was given and/or accumulated or the talent of the free agents he signed.
The vision for the team is what? Other than hog mollies I have no idea. We are big and slow and other teams are way more athletic. He understands positional value and asset allocation like Shurmur understands spreading the field and spacing.
With all of the assets he had, you should expect that some of the picks can play. And he has picked a few guys that can play. The fact remains, however, that he squandered two years where he should have been accumulating assets and rebuilding by pretending they were contenders. He has traded picks away rather than stockpiling them and has shown no ability to have a plan for the future of the team and franchise.
This team needs a clean break and real rebuild. He has to go. Time for new blood in the FO.
do we know for a FACT it was him who thought we could win? mara could have said we are going for one last run with eli...what would you say? nah ill stay unemployed lol.
its a business too...
I think DG has drafted well. i wont cry if he is shown the door, but he takes a wild amount of blame here....there is plenty to go around, but DG is prob one of the last i hammer with blame. mara sure...shurmur? absolutely....eagles took his lunch in that second half
Gettleman is part of the problem. If they are serious about doing things differently he has to go.
It seems pretty obvious to me. I thought this was universally accepted...
Terps I think your point is going to be moot as I don't see us leap-frogging Cincy for the top pick.
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Watch him play. He's cleaner in the pocket, decisive, gets through his reads quickly. Jones does some of that too...he throws the ball really well...but where Burrow separates is his pocket presence and decision making.
It seems pretty obvious to me. I thought this was universally accepted...
Terps I think your point is going to be moot as I don't see us leap-frogging Cincy for the top pick.
I actually think there's a chance. Cincinnati plays Miami and Cleveland (in Cincy).
Just have to hope the Giants lose out. Not just for the pick, but to cement Gettleman's exit.
Arizona really bungled the Rosen situation; I don't think we'd be doomed to the same meager return in a trade for Jones.
I'd rather hitch my wagon to Jones but if the Giants did this I wouldn't be opposed. The idea is not entirely without merit.
I don't know. Washington played tough in Green Bay this week. They actually have a defense, and who's covering McLaurin?
Mara should mandate that Tanney start these games. If he's so fucking good in the room let him be good on the field.
It seems pretty obvious to me. I thought this was universally accepted...
yes he is a better prospect.....thats about it. who knows how he plays when he gets to the NFL. jones accuracy you cannot teach...i think he is going to be good. regardless....young is the guy we should come away with in april
If you say Jones is a franchise QB, you are clueless, there are things that are alarmingly bad about this player. He is no leader, he is pretty slow thinking, he holds the ball way too long due to his slow thinking and then doesn't as soon as he is hit, and he is already hurt. But the same crowd that killed me over defending Eli that he was not the main problem, the same crowd that told me In Reese we Trust, and when I told them our team was build by Accorsi, they pointing to Boss, Bradshaw and Smith as the proof he was great. Building a team is more then a few picks, a lot more, and evaluating a franchise QB is a lot more then accuracy, which is something he does have, his mobility is good, but at what price, fumbles? Jones is a real mystery on whether you build your franchise around this player, right now I lean more towards no.
Trust me on this, David Jones is no sure bet to be a good QB, let alone a Super Bowl QB. That player is leaving, along with the only remaining pride in this sick organization. They better get rid of big fucking mouth Gettleman, 7 championships Gettleman, just ask the fuck, and clean house completely, then the new regime decide if Jones is worth moving forward with.
It seems pretty obvious to me. I thought this was universally accepted...
The last part aside (seemed a bit snotty) I guess I don't see where Jones is that bad off but, ok. Let's play your game. Now you have drafted a QB in the first rd two drafts in a row and your Oline still sucks. What's your plan?
If you say Jones is a franchise QB, you are clueless, there are things that are alarmingly bad about this player. He is no leader, he is pretty slow thinking, he holds the ball way too long due to his slow thinking and then doesn't as soon as he is hit, and he is already hurt. But the same crowd that killed me over defending Eli that he was not the main problem, the same crowd that told me In Reese we Trust, and when I told them our team was build by Accorsi, they pointing to Boss, Bradshaw and Smith as the proof he was great. Building a team is more then a few picks, a lot more, and evaluating a franchise QB is a lot more then accuracy, which is something he does have, his mobility is good, but at what price, fumbles? Jones is a real mystery on whether you build your franchise around this player, right now I lean more towards no.
Trust me on this, David Jones is no sure bet to be a good QB, let alone a Super Bowl QB. That player is leaving, along with the only remaining pride in this sick organization. They better get rid of big fucking mouth Gettleman, 7 championships Gettleman, just ask the fuck, and clean house completely, then the new regime decide if Jones is worth moving forward with.
love the BBI scouts. THE KID HASNT PLAYED A FULL FUCKING SEASON.
why cant people understand he is a rookie in less than ideal scenario?!?
give the kid a chance. he is slow thinking?!? wtf...how can you possibly know that lol
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Has given us more doubts then answers, I love the real tough guy crew that called me an idiot when we drafted Barkley and passed on Allen and Darnold. I said fire Shurmur after last season, bad is bad, and he is pathetic, I said he was worse then Handley, this crew chose to put all the blame on Eli Manning, now you suffer, and then they declared victory after the Redskin game, how does that look now.
If you say Jones is a franchise QB, you are clueless, there are things that are alarmingly bad about this player. He is no leader, he is pretty slow thinking, he holds the ball way too long due to his slow thinking and then doesn't as soon as he is hit, and he is already hurt. But the same crowd that killed me over defending Eli that he was not the main problem, the same crowd that told me In Reese we Trust, and when I told them our team was build by Accorsi, they pointing to Boss, Bradshaw and Smith as the proof he was great. Building a team is more then a few picks, a lot more, and evaluating a franchise QB is a lot more then accuracy, which is something he does have, his mobility is good, but at what price, fumbles? Jones is a real mystery on whether you build your franchise around this player, right now I lean more towards no.
Trust me on this, David Jones is no sure bet to be a good QB, let alone a Super Bowl QB. That player is leaving, along with the only remaining pride in this sick organization. They better get rid of big fucking mouth Gettleman, 7 championships Gettleman, just ask the fuck, and clean house completely, then the new regime decide if Jones is worth moving forward with.
love the BBI scouts. THE KID HASNT PLAYED A FULL FUCKING SEASON.
why cant people understand he is a rookie in less than ideal scenario?!?
give the kid a chance. he is slow thinking?!? wtf...how can you possibly know that lol
Thank you. I thought I was out in left field feeling like Jones, with some mistakes for sure, has looked pretty darn good for a Rookie with a team of average players, injured superstar RB and a fucking shitty Oline.
BTW- if Eli started the whole season our record is no better and might actually be worse. There is no way we would have beaten the Bucs with Eli playing against that Dline.
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In comment 14713171 djm said:
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If the giants ever become a good team again, Barkley will be everyone’s favorite player. He’s the engine.
By the time the Giants are good again, Barkley will either be gone or finished. He's this generation's Rodney Hampton.
He's going to put on weight and become a bruising style back???
No, he'll be past the point of relevance before the team returns to it. Was that difficult to understand? Would you prefer I post in rebuses?
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Has given us more doubts then answers, I love the real tough guy crew that called me an idiot when we drafted Barkley and passed on Allen and Darnold. I said fire Shurmur after last season, bad is bad, and he is pathetic, I said he was worse then Handley, this crew chose to put all the blame on Eli Manning, now you suffer, and then they declared victory after the Redskin game, how does that look now.
If you say Jones is a franchise QB, you are clueless, there are things that are alarmingly bad about this player. He is no leader, he is pretty slow thinking, he holds the ball way too long due to his slow thinking and then doesn't as soon as he is hit, and he is already hurt. But the same crowd that killed me over defending Eli that he was not the main problem, the same crowd that told me In Reese we Trust, and when I told them our team was build by Accorsi, they pointing to Boss, Bradshaw and Smith as the proof he was great. Building a team is more then a few picks, a lot more, and evaluating a franchise QB is a lot more then accuracy, which is something he does have, his mobility is good, but at what price, fumbles? Jones is a real mystery on whether you build your franchise around this player, right now I lean more towards no.
Trust me on this, David Jones is no sure bet to be a good QB, let alone a Super Bowl QB. That player is leaving, along with the only remaining pride in this sick organization. They better get rid of big fucking mouth Gettleman, 7 championships Gettleman, just ask the fuck, and clean house completely, then the new regime decide if Jones is worth moving forward with.
love the BBI scouts. THE KID HASNT PLAYED A FULL FUCKING SEASON.
why cant people understand he is a rookie in less than ideal scenario?!?
give the kid a chance. he is slow thinking?!? wtf...how can you possibly know that lol
Judging by his poor grammar and sentence structure, and juvenile innuendo - I'd wager he doesn't know much at all.
Did you really just randomly laugh out loud at the end of that sentence? That's weird.
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i hate to root against a kid, but you make it easy lol.
Did you really just randomly laugh out loud at the end of that sentence? That's weird.
haha
you got me.
We were in this exact spot when we fired Reese and McAdoo. We wasted two years with incompetent leadership. Hire someone real and let them build it right.
And I'd be careful about agreeing with Bleedblue...that fucking guy breathes through gills.
We were in this exact spot when we fired Reese and McAdoo. We wasted two years with incompetent leadership. Hire someone real and let them build it right.
And I'd be careful about agreeing with Bleedblue...that fucking guy breathes through gills.
thats the reality. We are in same situation as 2017. That's on Gettleman.
We were in this exact spot when we fired Reese and McAdoo. We wasted two years with incompetent leadership. Hire someone real and let them build it right.
And I'd be careful about agreeing with Bleedblue...that fucking guy breathes through gills.
LMAO. so you think we have 4 good players?! barkley not on your list of keeps?
my god man, you are mentally ill. i am sure you shit on tomlinson at one point too, but now he is included in your talented player list lol
Kid was a 4 star QB out of Ohio and just got lost in the sauce at OSU. I've heard Urban Meyer talk about him - very glowingly - and you get the impression that he thinks they didn't use him wisely at OSU. And there is some regret...
See his recruiting profile below.
Burrow HS recruit profile - ( New Window )
The coaching aspect concerns me more as we seem to be competitive every game but can’t close. That’s on the coaching staff. I still go back to the fact that Shurmur is the play caller. The success rate of head coaches calling plays is low across the league. They need an actual OC and a head coach that does what he is supposed to do, manage the overall team.
We were in this exact spot when we fired Reese and McAdoo. We wasted two years with incompetent leadership. Hire someone real and let them build it right.
And I'd be careful about agreeing with Bleedblue...that fucking guy breathes through gills.
This would be the most aggressive overhaul of a team's roster in the history of the NFL. Stripping down the roster to literally 3 or 4 players in one off season.
How long do you reckon it would take your plan to come to fruition?
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Has given us more doubts then answers, I love the real tough guy crew that called me an idiot when we drafted Barkley and passed on Allen and Darnold. I said fire Shurmur after last season, bad is bad, and he is pathetic, I said he was worse then Handley, this crew chose to put all the blame on Eli Manning, now you suffer, and then they declared victory after the Redskin game, how does that look now.
If you say Jones is a franchise QB, you are clueless, there are things that are alarmingly bad about this player. He is no leader, he is pretty slow thinking, he holds the ball way too long due to his slow thinking and then doesn't as soon as he is hit, and he is already hurt. But the same crowd that killed me over defending Eli that he was not the main problem, the same crowd that told me In Reese we Trust, and when I told them our team was build by Accorsi, they pointing to Boss, Bradshaw and Smith as the proof he was great. Building a team is more then a few picks, a lot more, and evaluating a franchise QB is a lot more then accuracy, which is something he does have, his mobility is good, but at what price, fumbles? Jones is a real mystery on whether you build your franchise around this player, right now I lean more towards no.
Trust me on this, David Jones is no sure bet to be a good QB, let alone a Super Bowl QB. That player is leaving, along with the only remaining pride in this sick organization. They better get rid of big fucking mouth Gettleman, 7 championships Gettleman, just ask the fuck, and clean house completely, then the new regime decide if Jones is worth moving forward with.
love the BBI scouts. THE KID HASNT PLAYED A FULL FUCKING SEASON.
why cant people understand he is a rookie in less than ideal scenario?!?
give the kid a chance. he is slow thinking?!? wtf...how can you possibly know that lol
That argument goes both ways. How have we seen enough to say he is a franchise QB?
Kid was a 4 star QB out of Ohio and just got lost in the sauce at OSU. I've heard Urban Meyer talk about him - very glowingly - and you get the impression that he thinks they didn't use him wisely at OSU. And there is some regret...
See his recruiting profile below. Burrow HS recruit profile - ( New Window )
I mean - I guess. Do you think Meyer is going to come out and bash the kid?