probably the most short-lived and infamous free agent. The Giants talked the guy out of retirement and he played in one game... oh what an impact he had.
RB James Stewart 2 years 6.9M
FB Larry Csonka 3 for around $2M, 2 third round draft choices
WR Mark Jackson 3 years 4.7M
OT Marshall Newhouse 2 years 3.25M
OT Nate Solder 4 years 62M
OG Patrick Omameh 3 years 15M
OG Kevin Baas 5 years 27M
OC Dusty Ziegler 5 years 9M
DE Robert Ayers 2 years 4M
DT Ray Agnew 4 years 8M
DE Kenny Holmes 5 years 20.2M
OB Carlos Emmons 5 years 16.5M
MB JT Thomas 3 years 12M
OB Barrett Green 5 years 13M BBV
FS Will Demps 5 years 10-12M
RB James Stewart 2 years 6.9M
FB Larry Csonka 3 for around $2M, 2 third round draft choices
WR Mark Jackson 3 years 4.7M
OT Marshall Newhouse 2 years 3.25M
OT Nate Solder 4 years 62M
OG Patrick Omameh 3 years 15M
OG Kevin Baas 5 years 27M
OC Dusty Ziegler 5 years 9M
DE Robert Ayers 2 years 4M
DT Ray Agnew 4 years 8M
DE Kenny Holmes 5 years 20.2M
OB Carlos Emmons 5 years 16.5M
MB JT Thomas 3 years 12M
OB Barrett Green 5 years 13M BBV
FS Will Demps 5 years 10-12M
Don't know if he belongs in this list but Mike Croel was an awful signing. Also TE Pete Mitchell was a huge free agent bust.
but at least I could see the logic in it, even if I disagree fundamentally with paying full retail price for a FA that is almost definitely on the downside of his career.
The worst, IMO, is Omameh. Captain Hog Mollie promised he could identify OL talent better than anyone, and saddled us with an empty check for $5.5M in guaranteed money for half a season of awful OL play.
count as a "signing"? The fact we traded more than a bag of chips for him definitely puts him in the top 5 of worst all time moves the Giants have made.
but at least I could see the logic in it, even if I disagree fundamentally with paying full retail price for a FA that is almost definitely on the downside of his career.
The worst, IMO, is Omameh. Captain Hog Mollie promised he could identify OL talent better than anyone, and saddled us with an empty check for $5.5M in guaranteed money for half a season of awful OL play.
I'm not sure what alternative DG had. What was present (Flowers) was not acceptable from any perspective (football, team morale, fan pleasure). Solder was widely regarded as the best available and had the additional positive of coming from a mega-winning, professional environment (one which apparently disguised his flaws). Payment had to be big because he was moving to a losing environment and iirc had to be enough to accept moving away form his kid's doctors.
Now and no longer can wait, Gettleman is a fucking asshole and a fool, a big mouthed fucking clueless prick. He did not last in Carolina, why? According to Mr Super Bowl he is the greatest, why then was he fired? That is his name from now on, Mr Fucking Super Bowl.
but at least I could see the logic in it, even if I disagree fundamentally with paying full retail price for a FA that is almost definitely on the downside of his career.
The worst, IMO, is Omameh. Captain Hog Mollie promised he could identify OL talent better than anyone, and saddled us with an empty check for $5.5M in guaranteed money for half a season of awful OL play.
I'm not sure what alternative DG had. What was present (Flowers) was not acceptable from any perspective (football, team morale, fan pleasure). Solder was widely regarded as the best available and had the additional positive of coming from a mega-winning, professional environment (one which apparently disguised his flaws). Payment had to be big because he was moving to a losing environment and iirc had to be enough to accept moving away form his kid's doctors.
You should ask RD what alternatives he had. Solder was not his top OL target; Norwell was. And Norwell would have precluded Solder, so clearly RD had another option in mind at OLT. Can't be that he didn't have any other options while he was simultaneously pursuing Norwell for OG first.
He was clearly in the hunt for a big splash anywhere on the OL. Solder was not even his originally intended plan.
RB James Stewart 2 years 6.9M
FB Larry Csonka 3 for around $2M, 2 third round draft choices
WR Mark Jackson 3 years 4.7M
OT Marshall Newhouse 2 years 3.25M
OT Nate Solder 4 years 62M
OG Patrick Omameh 3 years 15M
OG Kevin Baas 5 years 27M
OC Dusty Ziegler 5 years 9M
DE Robert Ayers 2 years 4M
DT Ray Agnew 4 years 8M
DE Kenny Holmes 5 years 20.2M
OB Carlos Emmons 5 years 16.5M
MB JT Thomas 3 years 12M
OB Barrett Green 5 years 13M BBV
FS Will Demps 5 years 10-12M
Dusty Ziegler should not be on the list.
He was a beast here for 2 years. The best center on the team since Bart Oates. And may have been better than Oates. He was the key to the 2000 OL. He was very athletic, and fantastic in space either pulling or just getting to the 2nd level. Tiki was getting huge chunks running behind him and Stone.
He got hurt and had what was supposed to be "minor" surgery on his knee. He had that microfracture surgery when it was still in its infancy and it totally destroyed his knee.
Can't call him a bad FA signing under those circumstances... Bad luck yeah, but he was awesomely good when he played.
My vote goes to Solder, followed by Emmons and Omameh. Emmons gets the nod because his 16M was a much larger % of the cap at the time.
but at least I could see the logic in it, even if I disagree fundamentally with paying full retail price for a FA that is almost definitely on the downside of his career.
The worst, IMO, is Omameh. Captain Hog Mollie promised he could identify OL talent better than anyone, and saddled us with an empty check for $5.5M in guaranteed money for half a season of awful OL play.
I'm not sure what alternative DG had. What was present (Flowers) was not acceptable from any perspective (football, team morale, fan pleasure). Solder was widely regarded as the best available and had the additional positive of coming from a mega-winning, professional environment (one which apparently disguised his flaws). Payment had to be big because he was moving to a losing environment and iirc had to be enough to accept moving away form his kid's doctors.
Well, the Patriots traded for Solders replacement, Trent Brown, for only a third round pick. Maybe he could have done that. We had two of them.
According to NFL Network's Ian Rapoport, Steward signed a two-year $6.9 contract with the Giants. He will receive $2.95 million in guaranteed money and can make up to $8.2 million in incentives.
His stat line? He played in 3 games, and gained 17 yards on 6 rushes.
takes the cake. Had no running value left and at a fairly cheap position to find younger, faster and better. And comically I think he was a fairly early FA signing...as if that couldn't have waited until the summer to determine if Giants were desperate at RB. And guarantees...for what?
When adding in total dollar impact...Nate Solder has got to be close to the top of the worst list though.
takes the cake. Had no running value left and at a fairly cheap position to find younger, faster and better. And comically I think he was a fairly early FA signing...as if that couldn't have waited until the summer to determine if Giants were desperate at RB. And guarantees...for what?
When adding in total dollar impact...Nate Solder has got to be close to the top of the worst list though.
But if it weren't for his mentorship, Barkley would be on a street corner slinging cocaine!
A JAG who received a big contract and added nothing to a talented defensive squad. Hes up there on this list.
Some interesting parallels there - Holmes was signed because of a disappointing high draft pick (Cedric Jones), and he was overpaid relative to production because of potential, having had his career high in sacks the year before. He was also likely the product of his surroundings, with Kearse drawing double teams on that line.
$$ involved and sudden drop off in ability - yes this is the worst FA signing. I fully understand why he was signed. If he was even league average it would be acceptable. I also know he was nothing special in New England.
I also think he must be playing with an injury to have gone this far south in such a short amount of time.
Csonka (who had a fork in him) was signed for 2 million dollars in 1976 as a free agent in 1976. In addition, Wellington Mara GAVE the Dolphins 2 third round draft choices (1978/1979), even though the Dolphins had no rights to Csonka.
Quote:
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J.,Oct. 17The Giants, who don't want to give away Bob Tucker, gave away two third‐round draft choices instead today to the Miami Dolphins as voluntary compensation for the signing of Larry Csonka.
I'll be damned, said one veteran player, shocked by the largess of Wellington Mara, the club president.
Confucius say: Honorable man get taken in end, said one member of the team's staff. But I tell you, it's nice working for a guy like that, and I just hope nice guys don't always finish last.
Csonka said he was not interested in what the Giants had given Miami, but a senior Giants official thought the fullback was disappointed he was considered worth only two third‐round choices.
takes the cake. Had no running value left and at a fairly cheap position to find younger, faster and better. And comically I think he was a fairly early FA signing...as if that couldn't have waited until the summer to determine if Giants were desperate at RB. And guarantees...for what?
Csonka (who had a fork in him) was signed for 2 million dollars in 1976 as a free agent in 1976. In addition, Wellington Mara GAVE the Dolphins 2 third round draft choices (1978/1979), even though the Dolphins had no rights to Csonka.
Quote:
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J.,Oct. 17The Giants, who don't want to give away Bob Tucker, gave away two third‐round draft choices instead today to the Miami Dolphins as voluntary compensation for the signing of Larry Csonka.
I'll be damned, said one veteran player, shocked by the largess of Wellington Mara, the club president.
Confucius say: Honorable man get taken in end, said one member of the team's staff. But I tell you, it's nice working for a guy like that, and I just hope nice guys don't always finish last.
Csonka said he was not interested in what the Giants had given Miami, but a senior Giants official thought the fullback was disappointed he was considered worth only two third‐round choices.
link
Is it worse than Stewart? The draft picks certainly are, but just from a FA perspective, he gained 1,344 yards and suffered a knee injury with the Giants. At $2M for the contract, that's $1.5k/yard. Even adjusted for inflation, not close to Stewart.
Is it worse than Stewart? The draft picks certainly are, but just from a FA perspective, he gained 1,344 yards and suffered a knee injury with the Giants. At $2M for the contract, that's $1.5k/yard. Even adjusted for inflation, not close to Stewart.
The Giants record in 1978 was 6-10 (the 3rd round draft choice given to Miami was #8 in that round), and in 1979 the record was also 6-10 (the 3rd round draft choice given to Miami that year was #7 of that round).
Given the lack of talent on the offensive side in the late '70's, giving away ANY draft choices was criminal. Csonka was just a name at that point; even in his glory years, he was a product of a superior Miami offensive line.
The offensive line of the Giants was pathetic at that time, and it didn't take a rocket scientist to see that Csonka was never going to do anything here. What was needed was a talent infusion on the line, and two high draft choices would have helped in the long run.
Remember, Simms got injured early in his career because the line was awful. Had the OLine been better, Simms might have had a much better start to his career, and not been benched.
Speaking of that draft, the 1979 third round of the draft was notable for the last player picked that round...Joe Montana!!
Lavar Arrington? His career got wrecked by injuries 3 games into his tenure with us. To be fair he came here with major injury concerns.
FB Larry Csonka 3 for around $2M, 2 third round draft choices
WR Mark Jackson 3 years 4.7M
OT Marshall Newhouse 2 years 3.25M
OT Nate Solder 4 years 62M
OG Patrick Omameh 3 years 15M
OG Kevin Baas 5 years 27M
OC Dusty Ziegler 5 years 9M
DE Robert Ayers 2 years 4M
DT Ray Agnew 4 years 8M
DE Kenny Holmes 5 years 20.2M
OB Carlos Emmons 5 years 16.5M
MB JT Thomas 3 years 12M
OB Barrett Green 5 years 13M BBV
FS Will Demps 5 years 10-12M
FB Larry Csonka 3 for around $2M, 2 third round draft choices
WR Mark Jackson 3 years 4.7M
OT Marshall Newhouse 2 years 3.25M
OT Nate Solder 4 years 62M
OG Patrick Omameh 3 years 15M
OG Kevin Baas 5 years 27M
OC Dusty Ziegler 5 years 9M
DE Robert Ayers 2 years 4M
DT Ray Agnew 4 years 8M
DE Kenny Holmes 5 years 20.2M
OB Carlos Emmons 5 years 16.5M
MB JT Thomas 3 years 12M
OB Barrett Green 5 years 13M BBV
FS Will Demps 5 years 10-12M
Don't know if he belongs in this list but Mike Croel was an awful signing. Also TE Pete Mitchell was a huge free agent bust.
Ill cross Ayers off the list, his 2nd year was quite good
Barrett Green and Carlos Emmons were bombs, but the one I hated most was Brian Mitchell.
The worst, IMO, is Omameh. Captain Hog Mollie promised he could identify OL talent better than anyone, and saddled us with an empty check for $5.5M in guaranteed money for half a season of awful OL play.
The worst, IMO, is Omameh. Captain Hog Mollie promised he could identify OL talent better than anyone, and saddled us with an empty check for $5.5M in guaranteed money for half a season of awful OL play.
I'm not sure what alternative DG had. What was present (Flowers) was not acceptable from any perspective (football, team morale, fan pleasure). Solder was widely regarded as the best available and had the additional positive of coming from a mega-winning, professional environment (one which apparently disguised his flaws). Payment had to be big because he was moving to a losing environment and iirc had to be enough to accept moving away form his kid's doctors.
Quote:
but at least I could see the logic in it, even if I disagree fundamentally with paying full retail price for a FA that is almost definitely on the downside of his career.
The worst, IMO, is Omameh. Captain Hog Mollie promised he could identify OL talent better than anyone, and saddled us with an empty check for $5.5M in guaranteed money for half a season of awful OL play.
I'm not sure what alternative DG had. What was present (Flowers) was not acceptable from any perspective (football, team morale, fan pleasure). Solder was widely regarded as the best available and had the additional positive of coming from a mega-winning, professional environment (one which apparently disguised his flaws). Payment had to be big because he was moving to a losing environment and iirc had to be enough to accept moving away form his kid's doctors.
You should ask RD what alternatives he had. Solder was not his top OL target; Norwell was. And Norwell would have precluded Solder, so clearly RD had another option in mind at OLT. Can't be that he didn't have any other options while he was simultaneously pursuing Norwell for OG first.
He was clearly in the hunt for a big splash anywhere on the OL. Solder was not even his originally intended plan.
FB Larry Csonka 3 for around $2M, 2 third round draft choices
WR Mark Jackson 3 years 4.7M
OT Marshall Newhouse 2 years 3.25M
OT Nate Solder 4 years 62M
OG Patrick Omameh 3 years 15M
OG Kevin Baas 5 years 27M
OC Dusty Ziegler 5 years 9M
DE Robert Ayers 2 years 4M
DT Ray Agnew 4 years 8M
DE Kenny Holmes 5 years 20.2M
OB Carlos Emmons 5 years 16.5M
MB JT Thomas 3 years 12M
OB Barrett Green 5 years 13M BBV
FS Will Demps 5 years 10-12M
Dusty Ziegler should not be on the list.
He was a beast here for 2 years. The best center on the team since Bart Oates. And may have been better than Oates. He was the key to the 2000 OL. He was very athletic, and fantastic in space either pulling or just getting to the 2nd level. Tiki was getting huge chunks running behind him and Stone.
He got hurt and had what was supposed to be "minor" surgery on his knee. He had that microfracture surgery when it was still in its infancy and it totally destroyed his knee.
Can't call him a bad FA signing under those circumstances... Bad luck yeah, but he was awesomely good when he played.
My vote goes to Solder, followed by Emmons and Omameh. Emmons gets the nod because his 16M was a much larger % of the cap at the time.
Quote:
but at least I could see the logic in it, even if I disagree fundamentally with paying full retail price for a FA that is almost definitely on the downside of his career.
The worst, IMO, is Omameh. Captain Hog Mollie promised he could identify OL talent better than anyone, and saddled us with an empty check for $5.5M in guaranteed money for half a season of awful OL play.
I'm not sure what alternative DG had. What was present (Flowers) was not acceptable from any perspective (football, team morale, fan pleasure). Solder was widely regarded as the best available and had the additional positive of coming from a mega-winning, professional environment (one which apparently disguised his flaws). Payment had to be big because he was moving to a losing environment and iirc had to be enough to accept moving away form his kid's doctors.
Well, the Patriots traded for Solders replacement, Trent Brown, for only a third round pick. Maybe he could have done that. We had two of them.
We won a SB with him at center.
Ayers made Pro Fooball Focus's top 100 players in 2015. PFF wrote that Robert was one of the best pass rushers in the NFL.
His stat line? He played in 3 games, and gained 17 yards on 6 rushes.
That's $174k per yard gained.
When adding in total dollar impact...Nate Solder has got to be close to the top of the worst list though.
When adding in total dollar impact...Nate Solder has got to be close to the top of the worst list though.
But if it weren't for his mentorship, Barkley would be on a street corner slinging cocaine!
Some interesting parallels there - Holmes was signed because of a disappointing high draft pick (Cedric Jones), and he was overpaid relative to production because of potential, having had his career high in sacks the year before. He was also likely the product of his surroundings, with Kearse drawing double teams on that line.
I also think he must be playing with an injury to have gone this far south in such a short amount of time.
I'll be damned, said one veteran player, shocked by the largess of Wellington Mara, the club president.
Confucius say: Honorable man get taken in end, said one member of the team's staff. But I tell you, it's nice working for a guy like that, and I just hope nice guys don't always finish last.
Csonka said he was not interested in what the Giants had given Miami, but a senior Giants official thought the fullback was disappointed he was considered worth only two third‐round choices.
that was the initial red flag on DG's ineptitude.
Quote:
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J.,Oct. 17The Giants, who don't want to give away Bob Tucker, gave away two third‐round draft choices instead today to the Miami Dolphins as voluntary compensation for the signing of Larry Csonka.
I'll be damned, said one veteran player, shocked by the largess of Wellington Mara, the club president.
Confucius say: Honorable man get taken in end, said one member of the team's staff. But I tell you, it's nice working for a guy like that, and I just hope nice guys don't always finish last.
Csonka said he was not interested in what the Giants had given Miami, but a senior Giants official thought the fullback was disappointed he was considered worth only two third‐round choices.
link
Is it worse than Stewart? The draft picks certainly are, but just from a FA perspective, he gained 1,344 yards and suffered a knee injury with the Giants. At $2M for the contract, that's $1.5k/yard. Even adjusted for inflation, not close to Stewart.
Csonka's fame alone was a difference maker.
Is it worse than Stewart? The draft picks certainly are, but just from a FA perspective, he gained 1,344 yards and suffered a knee injury with the Giants. At $2M for the contract, that's $1.5k/yard. Even adjusted for inflation, not close to Stewart.
The Giants record in 1978 was 6-10 (the 3rd round draft choice given to Miami was #8 in that round), and in 1979 the record was also 6-10 (the 3rd round draft choice given to Miami that year was #7 of that round).
Given the lack of talent on the offensive side in the late '70's, giving away ANY draft choices was criminal. Csonka was just a name at that point; even in his glory years, he was a product of a superior Miami offensive line.
The offensive line of the Giants was pathetic at that time, and it didn't take a rocket scientist to see that Csonka was never going to do anything here. What was needed was a talent infusion on the line, and two high draft choices would have helped in the long run.
Remember, Simms got injured early in his career because the line was awful. Had the OLine been better, Simms might have had a much better start to his career, and not been benched.
Speaking of that draft, the 1979 third round of the draft was notable for the last player picked that round...Joe Montana!!
One of my favorite BBI memes was a tree with Barrett Green's jersey on it.
Quote:
Is always one that comes to mind for me
One of my favorite BBI memes was a tree with Barrett Green's jersey on it.
Wasn't that Emmons?
Quote:
Is always one that comes to mind for me
One of my favorite BBI memes was a tree with Barrett Green's jersey on it.
I believe that was Emmons