BBV Todd McShay: Giants should draft a quarterback?

Don't tell me anything higher because you just went through the explanation that he's "Below Average". So I think a 6th round draft pick for a "Below Average" quarterback is completely reasonable maybe even generous!

I want to see the kid in year 2 with a real coach and better talent. But I am bracing myself for a lot of this over the next few months. Particularly if they get the first pick.

this is the stupidest advice ever.

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In comment 14713699 TommytheElephant said:

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peyton mannings rookie year was in the 90s.

im also not advocating moving on from jones. i just thought it was an interesting take, and i know he has his ardent defenders on this site.

fwiw, the only thing that makes him below average in my opinion is the losing games by fumbling the defense points, as he did in several games this year.

i think the only game he didn't fumble this year was the packers game where he got hurt and threw three picks (the last two probably due to the ankle injury).

Said on draft day that he had Ryan Finley ahead of Jones. Finley was so putrid the Bengals went back to Andy Dalton. So in order to defend his opinion he seems to want to year Jones down. No one knows if he's the answer but two 4 TD games as a rookie on a putrid team with a putrid coach with most of his weapons injured weekly is a sign of hope.

We need a “crazed dog” out there.

a smug jackass. Jones has not been great. One game this year that excited me. That was a long time ago. At this point I would be good if everyone was gone. All coaçhes, played and front office. Let a new GM start fron scratch.

I love Barkley. He was the only watchable thing last year, but that was last year.

DJ sucks. This isn't a Rosen situation. Not saying he is most Def the guy but we won't know that probably until tye end of next year.

The only reason McShay has a job at ESPN is so they can have a counter point to Kiper.

Interesting that this is dropped on the day Kiper says he was thinks Jones is the goods.

the Giants would be screwed anyway because we'd be stuck in the peak years of RG3's Hall of Fame career.

In comment 14713711 bceagle05 said:

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We need a “crazed dog” out there.

Actually I would sign a good pass rusher in free agency along with Golden then draft an LT.

Pass rushers become available in FA but OL do not.

Aaron Rodgers would be a career backup and had no quarterback skills to speak of

If Jones sucks next year, than you go get Lawrence or Fields in 2021.

Shit opinions and sticks to his guns.

McShay was very critical of the Jones pick so it’s no surprise he’s throwing club punches with Jones injured and the team losing.

But that's me.

We're not rotting at 2-11 because Jones played great football.

You can disagree with the philosophy of drafting another quarterback, but don't make Jones out to be something other than what he's been to this point: a turnover machine with no pocket presence.

We're all hoping he improves, but that's what he's been. Bullshitting ourselves into thinking otherwise isn't good for anyone.

How does a team this shitty have a single sacred cow on it?

In comment 14713720 nzyme said:

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In comment 14713711 bceagle05 said: Quote: We need a “crazed dog” out there. Actually I would sign a good pass rusher in free agency along with Golden then draft an LT. Pass rushers become available in FA but OL do not.

While my heart says take Chase Young, my head says trade down two slots and take a LT. Protect your QB, open lanes for Saquon. Sign Shaq Lawson or Bud Dupree in FA on a front loaded contract. Resign Golden and Williams. Then draft OL and LBs

I don’t see Burrow, Herbert, etc. in that class. I like DJ and think he will improve with experience, upgrading the line and better coaching.

In comment 14713724 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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But that's me.

I agree.

I think his flaws can be fixed.

How well would Brady have done behind our line? We can take QB after QB and toss them after two years because they won’t have any time to operate. Here’s a comment from another post that fits what I’m saying:
This comment is regarding the flea flicker and a wide open WR
“Eli had just 1 second to throw it... I wonder how many easy TDs Eli could have had over the last 3 years if it weren't for an awful play in pass protection”
If Eli had two and a half seconds We win! ... ( if the pass is accurate and Tate catches it)
Bottom line- before we scrap any QB give them the protection so he can show his wares. If he has all the protection and still sucks ..scrap him and the guy who picked him.
I haven’t seen enough to scrap DJ8.

But from the sound of it these guys are all flawed while Chase Young is Godzilla. Just take the best player and look elsewhere for the tackle IMO.

Had a shot at Trevor Lawrence, would you consider drafting a QB.

He certainly has some issues in his game that need work...

I may be indulging in a bit of hope over reason, but, I think the kid should have another chance with a better line and a better coach.

But if the team sucks again next year like it did this year (and I see no reason why it won't), the Giants may have a shot at Trevor Lawrence. If so, I wouldn't pass up a chance at him.

The Giants should make a bunch of moves to address the OL, draft a couple of tackles and a center, and try to pick up some stopgaps in FA (assuming the draftees won't be ready yet). Its too hard to evaluate a QB under these conditions.

In comment 14713732 Oscar said:

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But from the sound of it these guys are all flawed while Chase Young is Godzilla. Just take the best player and look elsewhere for the tackle IMO.

Thanks Oscar! Mortgage the farm and build the corral around DJ and go shopping for an edge and SAM! Just look who we had when we won the last Super Bowl. Didn’t we have AP in the middle and Mitchell at outside? The secondary was made up of rethreads. Eli had time to find Manningham...the time!
Let’s hope for a better 2020!

In comment 14713727 Go Terps said:

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We're not rotting at 2-11 because Jones played great football. You can disagree with the philosophy of drafting another quarterback, but don't make Jones out to be something other than what he's been to this point: a turnover machine with no pocket presence. We're all hoping he improves, but that's what he's been. Bullshitting ourselves into thinking otherwise isn't good for anyone. How does a team this shitty have a single sacred cow on it?

BBI's tough love troll...I'm twisted enough to admire your skill. Really, I'm in AWE.

The kid has played 10 NFL games. 10 games with arguably the worst coaching staff in the NFL, the worst offensive line in the NFL and his top receivers and tight end in and out of the lineup. He was also without Saquon for a while.

Before getting hurt, he had a chance of breaking the rookie touchdown record. He never once looked skittish while getting mauled on almost every drop back. He continuously showed guts and moxie. He took the blame and handled himself impeccably in every postgame interview with the grace of a savvy vet.

Yes, the turnovers are a major issue. Major. But I’ll take my chances with someone I have already seen that led me to my take in the first 2 paragraphs above. I’ll take my chances that he can fix his glaring flaw over an unknown top rookie in the draft. Daniel Jones is going to be a really good QB. He seems like someone who will work very hard at fixing his weaknesses. We are lucky to have him.

In comment 14713739 GiantEgo said:

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In comment 14713727 Go Terps said: Quote: We're not rotting at 2-11 because Jones played great football. You can disagree with the philosophy of drafting another quarterback, but don't make Jones out to be something other than what he's been to this point: a turnover machine with no pocket presence. We're all hoping he improves, but that's what he's been. Bullshitting ourselves into thinking otherwise isn't good for anyone. How does a team this shitty have a single sacred cow on it? BBI's tough love troll...I'm twisted enough to admire your skill. Really, I'm in AWE.

its exactly what he does. he is a troll.

you cannot actually sit here and blame DJ alone for being 2-11 (he didnt play in 3 games). the team isnt great and they are young. a rookie QB takes time.

and think he was over-drafted. But he's definitely shown flashes this year that are encouraging.

However, it's hard to discount the rate of turnovers and how many points he's given back. Can that improve? That's the big question. I don't think it should be assumed it's going to be fixed via coaching and more coaching. Some QBs just have the turnover gene - Eli, Favre, Testaverde, Bledsoe, etc. Some produce enough TDs and winning plays to overcome it. Some don't it. And do we even trust this organization to find the right coaches to move Jones forward? I think we have to agree the coaching staff Jones has been surrounded with thus far is underwhelming...

So if you are in another unique situation to draft at the top of the draft, you need to consider all options. Especially if the crop of QBs may be better than what you have.

I don't like any of these QBs enough to take them top 10, but I think Burrow is much more interesting QB prospect than Jones. And it's not particularly close. Burrow is much better in the pocket with some exceptional fundamentals, has a better arm, is an = or > athlete, and has delivered against the best competition in the country.

So to dismiss the idea of considering a QB as pure lunacy is short sighted and lazy.

Too many people here comfortable with being the worst team in the league...

Compared to other teams,I bet the Giants will clean up

We can get the analytics guys involved if necessary

No one would give a shit. No one would check out the link. It’s all about the revenue

In comment 14713753 bw in dc said:

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and think he was over-drafted. But he's definitely shown flashes this year that are encouraging. However, it's hard to discount the rate of turnovers and how many points he's given back. Can that improve? That's the big question. I don't think it should be assumed it's going to be fixed via coaching and more coaching. Some QBs just have the turnover gene - Eli, Favre, Testaverde, Bledsoe, etc. Some produce enough TDs and winning plays to overcome it. Some don't it. And do we even trust this organization to find the right coaches to move Jones forward? I think we have to agree the coaching staff Jones has been surrounded with thus far is underwhelming... So if you are in another unique situation to draft at the top of the draft, you need to consider all options. Especially if the crop of QBs may be better than what you have. I don't like any of these QBs enough to take them top 10, but I think Burrow is much more interesting QB prospect than Jones. And it's not particularly close. Burrow is much better in the pocket with some exceptional fundamentals, has a better arm, is an = or > athlete, and has delivered against the best competition in the country. So to dismiss the idea of considering a QB as pure lunacy is short sighted and lazy.

its not lazy, its just assumed to be a poor allocation of resources.

we wont go QB because jones has shown enough as a ROOKIE in a BAD situation that he can play. he will learn as time goes on, and the entire coach search is the reason i want a proven HC like rivera. we need someone who knows how to run a house.

has shown way more glimpses of greatness than Darnold or Rosen combined.

In comment 14713773 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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has shown way more glimpses of greatness than Darnold or Rosen combined.

Rosen for sure, but he's been dealt some very poor hands.

Darnold is a paradox to me. I thought he was toast when he admitted he saw ghosts. But he's bounced back pretty well. And there have been plenty of flashes.

Have only seen Burrow in three games, so hard to judge.

But neither guy is so good that you categorically take him over Jones.

Trevor Lawrence is another story.

That's not a plea to keep Shumur, only to say that you can't assume any player is going to continue to progress in a different system. It has killed other promising players and we can't assume Jones is immune to that without knowing who the next coach and offensive coordinator will be.

You can't really knock a potential new GM if they go that route. Let's see what kind of offense and defense they plan to run next year and reassess the roster then.

is still pissed that the Giants hurt his fragile reputation by taking Jones ahead of QBs on his board.
If those statistics were from Jones in his third year they would have some validity but he is a ROOKIE!

Just that if a new GM says he wants to draft Burrow and move Jones, it's a reasonable position that Mara should respect.

In the likely event that doesn't happen and Jones is the quarterback, he has got to clean up the negative plays because he doesn't make enough positive plays to offset them.

Should be able to decide if Jones is their guy or not. We shouldn't force that upon them. I do like Jones though.

But again, I don't think we clean house. I think we fire Shurmur, but DG survives.

...but I do know that most of the time DJ throws a pass, his receiver has a chance to catch it.

I'm ultra impressed with his accuracy.

It's a reasonable assumption that he's going to improve. Not necessarily linear, but improvement nonetheless. Especially when the talent gets better around him.

Seriously, I don't understand the lack of patience from some fans. Since when did a rookie QB need to play off the charts?

In comment 14713786 Go Terps said:

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Just that if a new GM says he wants to draft Burrow and move Jones, it's a reasonable position that Mara should respect. In the likely event that doesn't happen and Jones is the quarterback, he has got to clean up the negative plays because he doesn't make enough positive plays to offset them.

Yep, I can get on board with that. New regime wants a new QB, go for it. I think Jones has potential but if Burrow is there and someone wants him, fork it, take Burrow.

We are not losing games solely because of Jones. Our defense has been Swiss cheese and our offense has been in catch up mode and injured.

McShay can suck it. Draft Chase Young, draft OL in round 2 ( OT or C ).

In comment 14713753 bw in dc said:

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and think he was over-drafted. But he's definitely shown flashes this year that are encouraging. However, it's hard to discount the rate of turnovers and how many points he's given back. Can that improve? That's the big question. I don't think it should be assumed it's going to be fixed via coaching and more coaching. Some QBs just have the turnover gene - Eli, Favre, Testaverde, Bledsoe, etc. Some produce enough TDs and winning plays to overcome it. Some don't it. And do we even trust this organization to find the right coaches to move Jones forward? I think we have to agree the coaching staff Jones has been surrounded with thus far is underwhelming... So if you are in another unique situation to draft at the top of the draft, you need to consider all options. Especially if the crop of QBs may be better than what you have. I don't like any of these QBs enough to take them top 10, but I think Burrow is much more interesting QB prospect than Jones. And it's not particularly close. Burrow is much better in the pocket with some exceptional fundamentals, has a better arm, is an = or > athlete, and has delivered against the best competition in the country. So to dismiss the idea of considering a QB as pure lunacy is short sighted and lazy.

I will say this to you and Terps, how many points would we have had with Eli behind this line? Jones has escaped the rush, picked up first downs and avoided sacks that led to points. Eli, agaibst a shit secondary put up 17 first half points then could not generate a drive, let alone points in the sevond half. Yes, turnovers have to lessen but Jones has shown he is the real deal. He needs experience and some Oline help...

That's a fact.

If you think Jones has a great future, that's fine. You just don't have any proof, because none exists. We have to take it on faith.

In comment 14713854 Go Terps said:

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That's a fact. If you think Jones has a great future, that's fine. You just don't have any proof, because none exists. We have to take it on faith.

And the same goes for Burrow of course.

am not going to question Todd McShay and his (checks notes) one year of internship experience with Gary Horton. I mean, that’s an NFL scouting resume few could match.

If he was coming out this year and we had the number one pick we would be foolish not to select him. Otherwise, in the real world,Jones has been a mixed bag but what rookie quarterback would have looked much better with this team?

In comment 14713855 widmerseyebrow said:

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In comment 14713854 Go Terps said: Quote: That's a fact. If you think Jones has a great future, that's fine. You just don't have any proof, because none exists. We have to take it on faith. And the same goes for Burrow of course.

Of course. That's where you lean on your evaluators, and follow the information where it takes you.

I'm not a pro scout, but I don't think Jones is in Burrow's class.

In comment 14713848 Rjanyg said:

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We are not losing games solely because of Jones. Our defense has been Swiss cheese and our offense has been in catch up mode and injured. McShay can suck it. Draft Chase Young, draft OL in round 2 ( OT or C ).

I agree the team is failing everywhere. But since Jones touches the ball the most, and the major requirement of his position is to produce points, it's a reasonable place to focus.

Again, Jones has shown very interesting ability. But a deeper look into his play, particularly his last six games in aggregate, is pause for concern.