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What if Joe Burrow is graded as a potential superstar?

Jim from Katonah : 12/10/2019 10:54 pm
We are unlikely to get the 1st pick — but what if we do and after the combine/workouts Burrow is not just seen as a potential Goff, but as a Luck. Daniel Jones showed flashes of excellence, but also some causes of concern. Considering everything (the importance of the position, the sunk cost of the #6 pick, giving up Chase Young etc), would you consider pulling an Arizona (Murray/Rosen) and start fresh with Burrow? Or are you resolute on building around Jones?

I personally think Burrow would have to be seen as once every 5-10 year type guy to move on from Jones — in other words, I wouldn’t rule it out. Where do you stand?
Luck just doesn't happen between now and some workouts,  
Zeke's Alibi : 12/10/2019 11:00 pm : link
he was well known as a tremendous prospect before that.
It shouldn't be ruled out.  
robbieballs2003 : 12/10/2019 11:00 pm : link
However, we saw what happened with Rosen and Arizona. They killed Rosen's value by taking Murray. So, this is simple to me. Burrow would have to be head and shoulders above Jones to pull the trigger. There needs to be a drastic increase in value. It shouldn't just be something where they are similar but Burrow is slightly better.
Let me say this...  
bw in dc : 12/10/2019 11:07 pm : link
Burrow has better attributes than Jones at this point. I don't think it's that close. But I wouldn't take him in the top ten - I wouldn't have taken Jones in round one - because the limited experience is a concern. Burrow was a 4 star recruit out of Ohio so he was a top 300 prospect. I just think his timing at OSU was bad. Even Urban Meyer has recently said they probably didn't use Burrow properly.

However, if we wanted to seriously consider him as a replacement for Jones I think there is some merit there.

If we are relieving DG  
bradshaw44 : 12/10/2019 11:07 pm : link
Nothing should be off the table.

I will say that I don’t follow college ball. But for the last two years all I’ve heard about from CFB is Tua and Fromm for this coming draft. Nobody on any serious level spoke about Burrow. But now he’s the man. That worries me.

But again, I think everything should be on the table if DG is gone. And if he’s not, well, I’d still be ok with grabbing a potential great QB and letting the two of them duke it out.
RE: It shouldn't be ruled out.  
allstarjim : 12/10/2019 11:09 pm : link
In comment 14713876 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
However, we saw what happened with Rosen and Arizona. They killed Rosen's value by taking Murray. So, this is simple to me. Burrow would have to be head and shoulders above Jones to pull the trigger. There needs to be a drastic increase in value. It shouldn't just be something where they are similar but Burrow is slightly better.


Rosen diminished his own value by sucking his rookie year. The Cards still got a late 2nd and a 5th for him. Jones should still bring back a first round pick bc of his play this year. He's already shown enough to warrant that kind of return and with 3 more years on a rookie deal plus option year.

I want to see Burrow in his pro day, combine, etc. Long way to go but if the grade is significantly higher than Jones's the year prior, I'd absolutely trade Jones and keep Burrow.

I want the specific QB that makes us a perennial playoff team. There are so few like that.
RE: If we are relieving DG  
bw in dc : 12/10/2019 11:15 pm : link
In comment 14713887 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
Nothing should be off the table.

I will say that I don’t follow college ball. But for the last two years all I’ve heard about from CFB is Tua and Fromm for this coming draft. Nobody on any serious level spoke about Burrow. But now he’s the man. That worries me.

But again, I think everything should be on the table if DG is gone. And if he’s not, well, I’d still be ok with grabbing a potential great QB and letting the two of them duke it out.


The best thing that happened to Burrow and LSU football was Joe Brady. He's the assistant HC and OC. He's a very modern, forward thinking coach. He's brought LSU out of the Ice Age of Offense. Why he isn't being spoken about as an NFL HC candidate is a bit bewildering to me.

All that said, Brady still needed Burrow to execute and Burrow has at a phenomenal level. And against THE best competition in America.

Fromm had a rough year, especially the last six weeks. He was miserable. He seriously needs to consider going back to Athens and sharpening up his game.
And pass on Young?  
Eli Wilson : 12/10/2019 11:19 pm : link
Is Burrow > Young + Jones?

Or Burrow plus whatever you can get for Jones?

I'm not sure there is value there.
RE: And pass on Young?  
Jim from Katonah : 12/10/2019 11:22 pm : link
In comment 14713897 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
Is Burrow > Young + Jones?

Or Burrow plus whatever you can get for Jones?

I'm not sure there is value there.


Yeah, Young and Jones would be a lot to give up for Burrow. It would feel like a step back. But, there is nothing better in the NFL then having a true star QB. Tough call.
Have you watched the LSU tigers play this season?  
thrunthrublue : 12/10/2019 11:24 pm : link
Qb has time to throw to very open receivers.....his defense is incredible.....his team may very well be the best in the college world. Throw burrow in with these giants, he gets the shit beat out of him, no open receivers, no time to throw, defense puts him 20 points behind by the end of the first quarter. No fairness in any comparisons. Also, they have great talent evaluating and coaching. Program 180 degrees from the Ny dumpster fire of an organization. Fire d.g. And p.s.
RE: And pass on Young?  
bw in dc : 12/10/2019 11:25 pm : link
In comment 14713897 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
Is Burrow > Young + Jones?

Or Burrow plus whatever you can get for Jones?

I'm not sure there is value there.


Yes, you'd have to trade Jones in this scenario.

The best outcome, in my mind, is to get the #1 pick, and charge an RG3-like ransom for the spot. That could fetch multiple ones and a two or three, or multiple threes.
Then you take him, especially if DG is out the door  
Saos1n : 12/10/2019 11:26 pm : link
However, you deal Jones BEFORE the draft. All leverage is lost once the new QB is selected.

Drum up trade talks, get the best deal you can and draft Burrow.

I like Jones, but if that is what the new regime feels is the best option, do it
If this were Trevor Lawrence we were talking about  
Leg of Theismann : 12/10/2019 11:39 pm : link
Or someone with Andrew Luck -caliber prospect status, then I would say definitely consider it. It would have to be a situation where you know for sure the guy is going to be an elite QB in the NFL, or at very least very very good.

But I'm not sure about that with Burrow. No one else had been talking about him as an elite draft prospect before this season, so just one great year where he shoots up the draft boards doesn't make me feel as good as if this was a guy we knew was going to be the top pick in the draft years ahead of time.

Burrow has had a great year, don't get me wrong, and he is absolutely deserving of the Heisman, but let's remember that he has a fantastic supporting cast. I'd say three guys (his RB and 2 of his WRs) this year are all guys who will ultimately be 1st-3rd round draft picks someday. Jones didn't have all that.

I really like what I've seen from Jones this year. If you disregard the fumbles, he had a fantastic rookie season and looks like a potential pro bowl -caliber QB someday. I think the fumbles are one of those types of weaknesses that can absolutely be addressed and improved upon, and I trust Jones has the worth ethic to improve in that area. I think the TB game he did prove that he doesn't blink under the bright lights and can shine in clutch moments, which is another important thing you look for in QBs.

If we feel we have a franchise QB who is a flat-out winner and potential future champion, then we're good to go, and we'd have to consider the fact that we'd be missing out on Chase Young, who is the type of talent that can turn a defense around quickly.

Having an *elite* pass rush (not just pass rusher, but pass rush) is possibly just as important as having an elite QB. And I know he can't create all of the pass rush himself, but he is a massive step toward having an elite pass rush.

I know having an elite QB is essential to winning a SB most of the time (which is why it's important to get that piece right, I understand), but every Giants SB-winning team (all 4) has had an elite pass rush and a particularly special pass-rusher who offenses lay awake worrying about (LT, LT, Tuck, JPP). I know those guys all had help as well, but I at the very least every one of those teams did have 1 guy who was, at that time, maybe the most dangerous pass rusher in the league (and I do say that about Tuck in '07 because of the mismatch he created inside and by the time the playoffs rolled around he was literally unstoppable).
RE: RE: And pass on Young?  
Jim from Katonah : 12/10/2019 11:57 pm : link
In comment 14713903 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14713897 Eli Wilson said:


Quote:


Is Burrow > Young + Jones?

Or Burrow plus whatever you can get for Jones

I'm not sure there is value there.



Yes, you'd have to trade Jones in this scenario.

The best outcome, in my mind, is to get the #1 pick, and charge an RG3-like ransom for the spot. That could fetch multiple ones and a two or three, or multiple threes.


I think the Dolphins have THREE first rounders this year ... hmmm
RE: If this were Trevor Lawrence we were talking about  
Jim from Katonah : 12/10/2019 11:59 pm : link
In comment 14713912 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
Or someone with Andrew Luck -caliber prospect status, then I would say definitely consider it. It would have to be a situation where you know for sure the guy is going to be an elite QB in the NFL, or at very least very very good.

But I'm not sure about that with Burrow. No one else had been talking about him as an elite draft prospect before this season, so just one great year where he shoots up the draft boards doesn't make me feel as good as if this was a guy we knew was going to be the top pick in the draft years ahead of time.

Burrow has had a great year, don't get me wrong, and he is absolutely deserving of the Heisman, but let's remember that he has a fantastic supporting cast. I'd say three guys (his RB and 2 of his WRs) this year are all guys who will ultimately be 1st-3rd round draft picks someday. Jones didn't have all that.

I really like what I've seen from Jones this year. If you disregard the fumbles, he had a fantastic rookie season and looks like a potential pro bowl -caliber QB someday. I think the fumbles are one of those types of weaknesses that can absolutely be addressed and improved upon, and I trust Jones has the worth ethic to improve in that area. I think the TB game he did prove that he doesn't blink under the bright lights and can shine in clutch moments, which is another important thing you look for in QBs.

If we feel we have a franchise QB who is a flat-out winner and potential future champion, then we're good to go, and we'd have to consider the fact that we'd be missing out on Chase Young, who is the type of talent that can turn a defense around quickly.

Having an *elite* pass rush (not just pass rusher, but pass rush) is possibly just as important as having an elite QB. And I know he can't create all of the pass rush himself, but he is a massive step toward having an elite pass rush.

I know having an elite QB is essential to winning a SB most of the time (which is why it's important to get that piece right, I understand), but every Giants SB-winning team (all 4) has had an elite pass rush and a particularly special pass-rusher who offenses lay awake worrying about (LT, LT, Tuck, JPP). I know those guys all had help as well, but I at the very least every one of those teams did have 1 guy who was, at that time, maybe the most dangerous pass rusher in the league (and I do say that about Tuck in '07 because of the mismatch he created inside and by the time the playoffs rolled around he was literally unstoppable).


Really substantial and well-reasoned answer. Hope the leg is feeling better!
All I need to do to remind myself that BBI is clueless  
Giants38 : 12/11/2019 12:07 am : link
Is remember that people: a) thought Barkley was the right pick in 2018; and b) that Eli was good enough to get us to the POs in 2018 and 2019. How'd that work out? Eli is 8-27 in his last 35 games. People will find excuses for him no matter what. Fact is, that guy is washed, and the mistakes DJ is making are correctable.
RE: All I need to do to remind myself that BBI is clueless  
Jim from Katonah : 12/11/2019 12:12 am : link
In comment 14713940 Giants38 said:
Quote:
Is remember that people: a) thought Barkley was the right pick in 2018; and b) that Eli was good enough to get us to the POs in 2018 and 2019. How'd that work out? Eli is 8-27 in his last 35 games. People will find excuses for him no matter what. Fact is, that guy is washed, and the mistakes DJ is making are correctable.


So, sticking with Jones, no matter how highly Burrow is graded?
We'll probably suck bad enough next year even with  
Blue Dream : 12/11/2019 12:29 am : link
Chase young to have a shot at Trevor Lawrence anyway.
What about Justin Herbert?  
Rico : 12/11/2019 2:22 am : link
He and Tua were the two guys we talked about waiting till next year for a year ago. He's better this year than last. Why did he fall out of the conversation?

https://247sports.com/Article/cfb-analyst-says-oregon-quarterback-justin-herbert-should-be-earning-more-heisman-attention--138794195/

I agree that guys moving up and down makes me nervous. The consensus changes every month and is usually wrong.
i like herbert a lot, probably better than burrow  
japanhead : 12/11/2019 2:35 am : link
just based on burrow being on a freakishly dominant team.
here we go again  
BigBlueCane : 12/11/2019 4:24 am : link
bw can't wait to see the exact shade of green that the grass is elsewhere.

Burrow ain't a fit here.
RE: What about Justin Herbert?  
Thankyoueli : 12/11/2019 5:08 am : link
In comment 14713992 Rico said:
Quote:
He and Tua were the two guys we talked about waiting till next year for a year ago. He's better this year than last. Why did he fall out of the conversation?

https://247sports.com/Article/cfb-analyst-says-oregon-quarterback-justin-herbert-should-be-earning-more-heisman-attention--138794195/

I agree that guys moving up and down makes me nervous. The consensus changes every month and is usually wrong.


Herbert is still the same prospect as he was last year. A guy will all the tools that we dont know if he can process an NFL offense. Dont think we've ever even seen his head turn in the pocket. Its 1st read or tuck it.
On Joe an Evan yesterday  
joeinpa : 12/11/2019 7:04 am : link
A fan called in suggesting that during half time of the Eagle s game the FO got word to the coaching staff that they cannot win this game with Eli, because it would make everyone look bad for benching him so early and probably costing the team a play off spot.

This fan absolutely believed this to be a legitimate scenario.

Fans come up with a lot of ridiculous possibilities where their teams are concerned.

I think that the idea of the Giants moving on from Jones, while not as wild as the above conspiracy theory, is pretty unrealistic nevertheless
What concerns me is all the QB names BBI was talking about last  
Blue21 : 12/11/2019 7:11 am : link
year that the Giants should wait for this year have fallen.
This year the star is Burrow whose name was never mentioned last year.
Being at or near the top of the draft  
SCGiantsFan : 12/11/2019 7:13 am : link
NYG, of course will like every top player. If we want to maximize our draft position at #2, of course we will like Burrow and others. We have to at least make some think we just might draft Burrow, to have them move up a spot or two. Garner some extra picks while still selecting CY.
Young is going to Cincinnati.  
rnargi : 12/11/2019 7:21 am : link
They will pick him #1 overall and go the Baltimore route and pick up their QB at either the top of the 2nd or by trading back into the first. It's the smart play.
As a few have said, you leave that  
section125 : 12/11/2019 7:24 am : link
decision up to the new regime.
But I also think Jones and Young is much better than Burrows, alone. Aside from the fumbles, I liked what I saw in Jones. I'm not sure he isn't as good as Eli in his prime. He throws a better ball than Eli ever did. What we don't know is if he has Eli's dedication and moxie.

While it is intriguing, trading the #1(if they get it) for two #1s and more, but losing out on Young would be hard. I do not know who the 2nd best ER is, but if there is one close, then it might be worth it.

If  
mdthedream : 12/11/2019 7:34 am : link
we draft 1st we listen to every trade offer out there. We could get a huge offer say a OT and multiple first round picks plus than we consider it big time. Also at 2 we listen to every offer.
More  
Jim in NH : 12/11/2019 7:42 am : link
Last winter, I kept posting my list of SB winning QBs and where they were drafted. Bottom line was that half were drafted in the top ten draft slots and half below, 40% were second round or later, including several with more than one SB win.

I don't care if Burrow is god (no offense, Lord). If you took the (future) greatest QB of all time and put him in the middle of this shitshow not a thing would change. More realistically, if Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Jimmy Garoppolo, or Tom Brady were the NYG QB they would still suck.

Winning teams are a cast of characters. The NYG problem is that you need 53 and we have six or seven. In fact, that would be an interesting, new stat to compile for teams - how many NFL caliber players do they have, divided by 53. So, a typical Belichek team might have 49/53. Right now, the NYG score is one of the lowest in team history (and, yes, Shurmur is terrible, but part of the REASON NYG have a terrible coach is that no football-wise NFL level coach would take a job like this one).

Daniel Jones replacing Tom Brady could take the Patriots to the SB. Daniel Jones replacing Lamar Jackson could take the Ravens to the SB. Tom Brady's fucking BACKUP could take the 49ers to the SB.

Maybe the latest college big name would grade out higher than DJ. Maybe.

But taking Burrow would put off improving the team at the other 20 or so positions that are critically in need of an upgrade to run after the "franchise QB is the savior" myth.

Don't even think about it. Face it. NYG need 10+ new NFL caliber players to allow us to not appear in public with paper bags on our heads. The QB position is not the problem.
Depends on who the new GM (maybe) and Coach are..  
Dnew15 : 12/11/2019 8:02 am : link
once you start moving guys at the top of chain - anything goes.

New coach and staff might think that Jones isn't a good fit for his system.

New GM might think he or she (wouldn't that be something - the Giants making that move) doesn't want to be tied to guy like Jones, who he or she didn't pick.

Few things to consider  
Lines of Scrimmage : 12/11/2019 8:15 am : link
LSU has always had tremendous talent and Orgeron has been when of the top recruiters in college football going back to his USC days.

He also is a very good coach. The OC they bought in from New Orleans has made a huge difference. I am interested to see how he performs in the playoffs as well as how the better teams play against LSU with more time to prepare.
Wasn't Ryan Leaf  
nzyme : 12/11/2019 8:25 am : link
graded as a potential superstar??
If we take another QB  
EricJ : 12/11/2019 8:31 am : link
With our first pick, we will be the Browns. Then the BBI meltdown over Dave Gettleman will be unbearable
If he was sooooo good  
BronxBombers : 12/11/2019 8:32 am : link
then why didnt Ohio State keep him? they went after Fields instead. Chase young is our guy.
RE: RE: And pass on Young?  
Reale01 : 12/11/2019 8:42 am : link
In comment 14713900 Jim from Katonah said:
Quote:
In comment 14713897 Eli Wilson said:


Quote:


Is Burrow > Young + Jones?

Or Burrow plus whatever you can get for Jones?

I'm not sure there is value there.



Yeah, Young and Jones would be a lot to give up for Burrow. It would feel like a step back. But, there is nothing better in the NFL then having a true star QB. Tough call.



It would actually be Burrows AND whatever we get for Jones for Young and Jones.
RE: If this were Trevor Lawrence we were talking about  
Matt G : 12/11/2019 8:42 am : link
In comment 14713912 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
Or someone with Andrew Luck -caliber prospect status, then I would say definitely consider it. It would have to be a situation where you know for sure the guy is going to be an elite QB in the NFL, or at very least very very good.

But I'm not sure about that with Burrow. No one else had been talking about him as an elite draft prospect before this season, so just one great year where he shoots up the draft boards doesn't make me feel as good as if this was a guy we knew was going to be the top pick in the draft years ahead of time.

Burrow has had a great year, don't get me wrong, and he is absolutely deserving of the Heisman, but let's remember that he has a fantastic supporting cast. I'd say three guys (his RB and 2 of his WRs) this year are all guys who will ultimately be 1st-3rd round draft picks someday. Jones didn't have all that.

I really like what I've seen from Jones this year. If you disregard the fumbles, he had a fantastic rookie season and looks like a potential pro bowl -caliber QB someday. I think the fumbles are one of those types of weaknesses that can absolutely be addressed and improved upon, and I trust Jones has the worth ethic to improve in that area. I think the TB game he did prove that he doesn't blink under the bright lights and can shine in clutch moments, which is another important thing you look for in QBs.

If we feel we have a franchise QB who is a flat-out winner and potential future champion, then we're good to go, and we'd have to consider the fact that we'd be missing out on Chase Young, who is the type of talent that can turn a defense around quickly.

Having an *elite* pass rush (not just pass rusher, but pass rush) is possibly just as important as having an elite QB. And I know he can't create all of the pass rush himself, but he is a massive step toward having an elite pass rush.

I know having an elite QB is essential to winning a SB most of the time (which is why it's important to get that piece right, I understand), but every Giants SB-winning team (all 4) has had an elite pass rush and a particularly special pass-rusher who offenses lay awake worrying about (LT, LT, Tuck, JPP). I know those guys all had help as well, but I at the very least every one of those teams did have 1 guy who was, at that time, maybe the most dangerous pass rusher in the league (and I do say that about Tuck in '07 because of the mismatch he created inside and by the time the playoffs rolled around he was literally unstoppable).


Basically, this^^^... IMO, Burrow is the cleanest QB prospect to come out since Luck... That being said, I don't see him as enough of an upgrade to pull the plug on Daniel Jones, who I still think his the potential to be a top-tier QB... If this was Trevor Lawrence, totally different story
RE: If he was sooooo good  
crackerjack465 : 12/11/2019 8:50 am : link
In comment 14714113 BronxBombers said:
Quote:
then why didnt Ohio State keep him? they went after Fields instead. Chase young is our guy.


While I agree that Chase is our guy, the reason they didn't keep him was because they were not going to bench 5th year starter JT Barrett in his last year. Burrow transferred a year before Fields arrived.

Also, if you want to use that same argument, switch some names around. "why didnt Georgia keep him? they went with Fromm instead..."

Georgia had to play Fromm, they weren't going to bench him for Fields, despite Fields being the better prospect. So they continue to run their 1993 offense with Jake Fromm and they missed the playoffs because of it.
Burrow is a good player and will be QB1 in the draft  
Biteymax22 : 12/11/2019 8:57 am : link
I would not draft him and get rid of Jones though. Jones took his rookie lumps this year and had some good games with some bad, but I think his future is bright. He also has the temperament to handle New York, which I'd love to be able to disregard, but it is important here.

If this were 2021, I'd take Lawrence in a second...

All in all, if we wind up with the number one pick, our best bet would be to sell it to the highest bidder. This realistically may wind up being Cincinnati sitting at 2 where we could still get Chase Young and also net more draft capital.
Burrow way over hyped...and might be very good  
Rafflee : 12/11/2019 8:58 am : link
It'll be interesting to see how Burrow does at the combine... i've seen only a litle of him and His Arm doesn't necessarily jump out for Me. He has lots and lots of time, and his teamates massively out-talent the competition.

He is delivering on those advantages and he's obviously very mobile.

Nobody can really scout and project a QB to the NFL Level, and it's hard for Me to see that He is an abvious upgrade to DJ.

I am very IN on DJ....pleassantly surprised by what he's shown and done, and optimistic that he can be a top tier guy---10th and better.
Draft Young next year  
giants_10_88 : 12/11/2019 9:00 am : link
and hope to get Lawrence the year after. Trade Jones somewhere for a second or so.
Completely...  
Brown_Hornet : 12/11/2019 9:02 am : link
...off the table.

As college QBs,  
Pete in MD : 12/11/2019 9:07 am : link
Haskins>>Burrow.

Don't take my word for it, ask the Ohio State coaching staff, which included Joe's dad.
I'm not sure what the answer  
Metnut : 12/11/2019 9:13 am : link
is, but I know what we need a new GM to make an independent unbiased analysis. Gettleman is tied to Jones and won't take another QB.

Let's have our GM take a deep unbiased look at Jones, Burrow and Young, and make the best decision for the Giants to get back to competing for titles.
RE: Have you watched the LSU tigers play this season?  
barens : 12/11/2019 9:15 am : link
In comment 14713902 thrunthrublue said:
Quote:
Qb has time to throw to very open receivers.....his defense is incredible.....his team may very well be the best in the college world. Throw burrow in with these giants, he gets the shit beat out of him, no open receivers, no time to throw, defense puts him 20 points behind by the end of the first quarter. No fairness in any comparisons. Also, they have great talent evaluating and coaching. Program 180 degrees from the Ny dumpster fire of an organization. Fire d.g. And p.s.


That is not the case at all. Their offensive line is good, not great, and Burrow has been under pressure in more games than I can count. Before the season, he didn't have a running back worthy of talking about, and the defense, up until the last couple of games, had been terrible.
RE: As college QBs,  
crackerjack465 : 12/11/2019 9:21 am : link
In comment 14714168 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
Haskins>>Burrow.

Don't take my word for it, ask the Ohio State coaching staff, which included Joe's dad.


Yeah, Burrow has the stats but I'm not sure he is as good of a prospect as Haskins was.

I really don't understand Giants fans. As a rookie QB, what else did you need to see? 30-40 TDs?

The fumbles have to be cut down, but what else did this kid do to make you think that he isn't going to be a good player in this league.

Luck threw for 23 TDs, 18 picks, 58% completion percentage and fumbled 10 times Rookies have to learn. Jones played pretty well this year, don't trade him away for a chance to try and strike gold twice.
The Burrow stuff on BBI  
ryanmkeane : 12/11/2019 9:21 am : link
is becoming a joke. He's a very good prospect yes, and possibly worthy of the #1 pick. He's from Ohio so naturally the Bengals will probably take him. But if I were a QB needy team I'd rather have Tua (if healthy) as I think he's a better prospect.
Putting aside the Arizona / Rosen debacle, picking a QB at  
mikeinbloomfield : 12/11/2019 9:26 am : link
six forces you to build around him. Terrible teams like the Giants usually have too many holes to keep spending high picks on QBs when there are holes all over the roster. You have to assume QB is taken care of so you can get that EDGE, or LT or CB that you also need.

This is why everyone says if you pick the wrong QB it sets you back years. You can't keep trying to replace them or you end up with a team with a great QB but nothing else.
If he is the the Bungles will take him.  
Victor in CT : 12/11/2019 9:28 am : link
Thankfully. And the Jints get Chase Young.
Burrow is not the Andrew Luck type prospect IMO  
90.Cal : 12/11/2019 9:39 am : link
1 year wonder... I like him but... he isn't Andrew Luck as a prospect, stop.
RE: RE: And pass on Young?  
Giantz_comeback : 12/11/2019 9:39 am : link
In comment 14713900 Jim from Katonah said:
Quote:
In comment 14713897 Eli Wilson said:


Quote:


Is Burrow > Young + Jones?

Or Burrow plus whatever you can get for Jones?

I'm not sure there is value there.



Yeah, Young and Jones would be a lot to give up for Burrow. It would feel like a step back. But, there is nothing better in the NFL then having a true star QB. Tough call.


I think the Giants are heavily invested in Jones. And Jones has flashed enough to have them very encouraged about his future. This has been an abomination of a season and one of thise where it's hard to get true grades on players because the coaching has been so bad. Add in the OL play and all the injuries I think Jones grade on the 'curve' is pretty good.

I highly highly doubt they move on from DJ especially since while Burrow looks good he doesn't look like that uber elite prospect like a Luck or a Peyton Manning.

But Chase looks like one of those elite edge guys that come once every 5-10 years or so.
RE: What concerns me is all the QB names BBI was talking about last  
Gruber : 12/11/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14714027 Blue21 said:
Quote:
year that the Giants should wait for this year have fallen.
This year the star is Burrow whose name was never mentioned last year.


Lead up to the 2018 draft, Lamar Jackson wasn't being mentioned in the same breath as Darnold, Mayfield, Rosen and Allen, so what you're saying really isn't a big deal. All the talk were of this four as a group, there were so many articles about them, always mentioned as an elite group and Jackson was almost always mentioned as being the next level down, the most common reason given being that he was viewed as lacking accuracy. And don't forget also he wasn't the first player drafted by the Ravens either. Plus, early on, there was some ridiculous talk of getting him to play as a wide reciever.
Funny to me that  
ryanmkeane : 12/11/2019 9:59 am : link
people here wanted Bradley Chubb over Barkley, yet now they'd want to pass on Young, who is much better as a prospect than Chubb.
RE: If this were Trevor Lawrence we were talking about  
Gruber : 12/11/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14713912 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
Or someone with Andrew Luck -caliber prospect status, then I would say definitely consider it. It would have to be a situation where you know for sure the guy is going to be an elite QB in the NFL, or at very least very very good.


Imagine sucking to get the #1 pick in 2021 to get Lawrence. That would mean not drafting a QB this coming Spring. I could see the Bengals or the Dolphins doing that, which would mean they would draft Chase Young.
I think you stick with Jones 100%  
Rudy5757 : 12/11/2019 10:51 am : link
There are no guarantees in Football, even Luck only lasted a few seasons. If you do get the #1 pick I think you leverage Miami at 3 against Cincinatti and try to get some picks out of Cincinatti for the right to draft Burrow and still guarantee you get the best player in the draft at 2.

If every year you draft the same positions you will never improve. I think DJ can be a good QB in this league and more and more QBs lately have been successful lower down in the draft. Its more about the supporting cast or designing an O to meet the strengths of your team. Our supporting cast sucks and our coach cant design the O around our best players.
You have to weigh Burrow's fit to the team very carefully vs  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/11/2019 10:56 am : link
Chase Young or a top LOT.

My pov says you add Chase and a good ILB and the dominoes all begin to fall in place on defense - assuming ascension among the young DBs.

And this SHOULD BE a defensively led team.
RE: If we take another QB  
Go Terps : 12/11/2019 11:02 am : link
In comment 14714110 EricJ said:
Quote:
With our first pick, we will be the Browns. Then the BBI meltdown over Dave Gettleman will be unbearable


Gettleman wouldn't make such a move. This scenario is only possible if a new GM comes in and thinks Burrow is an upgrade over Jones. That begs the question: would Mara even hire someone that held that opinion?
Historically speaking..  
Dnew15 : 12/11/2019 11:57 am : link
the answer is no. Taking out Shurmur/DG/starting QB and completely starting again from scratch is something the Giants organization has been incredibly hesitant to do.

Although, at least the question of - Do we need to scrap Jones and go QB #1 has more merit than the last GM and coach were asked during the interview process...Can you win with a 37 year old franchise icon that's on his last leg but we want to try one more run?
RE: RE: If we take another QB  
EricJ : 12/11/2019 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14714392 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14714110 EricJ said:


Quote:


With our first pick, we will be the Browns. Then the BBI meltdown over Dave Gettleman will be unbearable



Gettleman wouldn't make such a move. This scenario is only possible if a new GM comes in and thinks Burrow is an upgrade over Jones. That begs the question: would Mara even hire someone that held that opinion?


If we end up with the first pick somehow, I can see us drafting then trading him. Similar to Eli.
I'd rather have  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 12/11/2019 6:27 pm : link
Jones and Young than Burrow

I still like Jones. I could be wrong, but that's what I'd shoot for.
Even the Bungles couldn't bungle this one. They'll Draft Burrow #1  
Torrag : 12/11/2019 6:56 pm : link
That said we wouldn't draft him anyway.
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