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Culture: Is anyone going to do anything?

Kyle the Giant : 12/11/2019 10:33 am
Players don't seem to like it when you call them out publicly. I remember Coughlin accurately stating that everyone was pathetic and Hakeem Nicks took it personal and that was after the Seattle 23-0 loss in 2013? He did everything that a man should be doing and instead of owning up to it he said "no. thats not it at all". Uh yeah, you just got shut out 23-0 you should put pride away and realize what a joke you were.

Shut up and own up to being a joke? Does this even exist anymore? Players blowing assignments committing penalties and smiling? Where is the leadership, huh? Imagine someone smiling after a blown play with Ray Lewis on your team? Oh wait, am I proving a salient point between winners and losers?

If I were Mara I'd be telling it like it is about this team in the media, the coach and the GM would be petrified of me. Where was Shurmur when Ertz was that wide open? If I were a coach or leader of the team, I would've been chewing out the defense, kind of like Coughlin did to Dodge but worse. The cameras would be zoomed in and you'd the last thing you would see was that player getting an earful with a clenched fist.

Well, if I were Mara, Shurmur would've been out the door weeks ago. Do the math. 17-45? F right off. Dont give me this excuse about lack of talent either, they were in this game.

Seems as if this generation of players doesn't like to be criticized and they don't own up to it. What happened? Why is 2 and fucking 11 acceptable? You'd be hearing curse words and devaluing of one's existence if I had a say in it but good thing I don't because we don't want to upset the participation trophy generation to get cry.

I guess I am that out of touch and this is what happens when you get older lol. Look at everything else beyond the scope of football. End of rant.
Get a real HC  
rocco8112 : 12/11/2019 10:34 am : link
win a damn game
Our GM and HC don't take well to criticism either  
santacruzom : 12/11/2019 10:39 am : link
And they ain't exactly millennials.
What good are curse words and yelling  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/11/2019 10:41 am : link
When the head coach is incompetent too?

Shurmur has no leg to stand on to scream at anyone. He sucks and his assistant coaches suck.
RE: Our GM and HC don't take well to criticism either  
BigBlueinChicago : 12/11/2019 10:47 am : link
In comment 14714353 santacruzom said:
Quote:
And they ain't exactly millennials.


When the top two lieutenants are sensitive to criticism, and then try to cleanse the locker room of any player who would dare to constructively criticize, you basically have a program running scared.

Well, there is definitely a culture problem with the  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 12/11/2019 10:49 am : link
Giants...it's been an issue for years and it continues. It's a country club and there is no accountability.

Again, we can complain all we want about Shurmur and Gettleman et al but this starts at the top. I want to know exactly what Mara/Tisch are going to do to fix the obvious issues in that building?

Until that changes, I am not confident anything else will.
If you find someone from the Parcells/Coughlin school  
David B. : 12/11/2019 10:53 am : link
of coaching, this will stop.

The team may still suck for a while, but there will be consequences for fucking up. The players WILL be screamed at. They will be called out (as a team or unit) in the media, until they are terrified to fuck up. And if they still fuck up, they'll be on the bench or the bus out of town after the game.

Shurmer ain't that guy. I hope Rivera is.
RE: What good are curse words and yelling  
Kyle the Giant : 12/11/2019 10:55 am : link
In comment 14714354 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
When the head coach is incompetent too?

Shurmur has no leg to stand on to scream at anyone. He sucks and his assistant coaches suck.


What good are curse words going to do? Uh how about not smiling to a loser culture (if you read the OP correctly) and people would be walking on eggshells. The GM would have to do a 2 hour documentary spelling out how disrespectful I was to him.

"Wow, you wouldn't wanna mess with that guy. He just wants to win, nothing wrong with that."

Uh...if you need to question anything else logical, I'll be right here.
Parcells whole thing was  
David B. : 12/11/2019 10:57 am : link
He never EVER wanted his players -- ANY of them -- (not even LT and Simms) to get comfortable. With their play or themselves. He always kept them on their toes, and was VERY VERY sparing with any praise he ever gave. Even after a great play or great game. He still harped on what they did wrong. And Coughlin was similar.

Young teams need an asshole coach like them to grow up, and to learn what it takes.
Narratives are so easy to spin  
NorthCountryGiantsFan : 12/11/2019 11:07 am : link
one direction or the other. The country club mentality started under Coughlin when he refused to unseat his precious veterans in favor of developing youth. Also, anyone remember the OBJ/Josh Norman game? I remember screaming at Coughlin through the TV to get him outta the game and scream at him and TC did nothing while OBJ embarassed himself and the team.
To be honest I think trading Beckham was  
Thankyoueli : 12/11/2019 11:11 am : link
A blow to team morale. Makes everyone feel like they can be gone the next day so it's hard for them to truly invest in the team.


Not to mention it's hard to trade a guy like that and convince the players you're trying to win.
RE: Narratives are so easy to spin  
Kyle the Giant : 12/11/2019 11:12 am : link
In comment 14714403 NorthCountryGiantsFan said:
Quote:
one direction or the other. The country club mentality started under Coughlin when he refused to unseat his precious veterans in favor of developing youth. Also, anyone remember the OBJ/Josh Norman game? I remember screaming at Coughlin through the TV to get him outta the game and scream at him and TC did nothing while OBJ embarassed himself and the team.


What veterans? and when those younger guys were put in (David Wilson, Brewer, Flowers, Pugh), how did that pan out? I think you're mixing up what type of biased information your mind is storing with common sense/reality just so you can rebut the OP. You're not really saying anything different.

I think its pretty obvious Coughlin kept OBJ in the game to save his own ass. He knew with him OBJ on the field, he had a chance to make a comeback down 35-7. It was a nice way of saying "fuck you" to the Giants.
Markus Kuhn...  
NorthCountryGiantsFan : 12/11/2019 11:16 am : link
that is all...
RE: Narratives are so easy to spin  
Biteymax22 : 12/11/2019 11:24 am : link
In comment 14714403 NorthCountryGiantsFan said:
Quote:
one direction or the other. The country club mentality started under Coughlin when he refused to unseat his precious veterans in favor of developing youth. Also, anyone remember the OBJ/Josh Norman game? I remember screaming at Coughlin through the TV to get him outta the game and scream at him and TC did nothing while OBJ embarassed himself and the team.


To this day, my father points to that as the turning points for the Giants franchise. He swears to god it was the first sign that ownership cared more about the players putting fans in the seats than they did about winning.
Parcells also said he NEVER wanted  
Bubba : 12/11/2019 12:39 pm : link
any celebrities playing for him. Kept them all in line. Plus he had GREAT locker room guys like Carson and Martin to keep guys rooted. Who do we have? Rolle or Strah were maybe the last ones.
Well,  
x meadowlander : 12/11/2019 12:57 pm : link
It's a lost season, and the horses have left the barn, and
most of these players are just going through the motions,
planning their offseason plans, and I imagine for some -
exit strategies. Earlier in the season is when one would
ask for commitment, would make sensationalist statements
calling for their teammates to show heart, to turn around a
helpless, lost season.

The past had the famous Fassell prediction, there have been
rallying cries from leaders of era's past that worked to
unite teams and turned the time. But this is different, this
much losing over so many years has traumatized the team, now
players seem to have forgotten how to win.


The rot is at the top and must be removed!

:)
RE: Narratives are so easy to spin  
Go Terps : 12/11/2019 12:59 pm : link
In comment 14714403 NorthCountryGiantsFan said:
Quote:
one direction or the other. The country club mentality started under Coughlin when he refused to unseat his precious veterans in favor of developing youth. Also, anyone remember the OBJ/Josh Norman game? I remember screaming at Coughlin through the TV to get him outta the game and scream at him and TC did nothing while OBJ embarassed himself and the team.


I completely agree with this. The Giants' issues go back a few years, and include Coughlin.
I ...  
Chungus : 12/11/2019 1:08 pm : link
thought 2019 was about "culture building" given what were we lead to believe all off season ... Is it more of the same ?
RE: RE: What good are curse words and yelling  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/11/2019 1:11 pm : link
In comment 14714379 Kyle the Giant said:
Quote:
In comment 14714354 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


When the head coach is incompetent too?

Shurmur has no leg to stand on to scream at anyone. He sucks and his assistant coaches suck.



What good are curse words going to do? Uh how about not smiling to a loser culture (if you read the OP correctly) and people would be walking on eggshells. The GM would have to do a 2 hour documentary spelling out how disrespectful I was to him.

"Wow, you wouldn't wanna mess with that guy. He just wants to win, nothing wrong with that."

Uh...if you need to question anything else logical, I'll be right here.


Why would you care if someone is yelling at you if you dont respect them? Only a child gets scared at yelling for the sake of yelling.
John Madden told a story on Chris Russo's show a while back  
Go Terps : 12/11/2019 1:24 pm : link
Russo asked Madden if he'd ever flipped out as a coach and really let his team have it. Madden said that's not really a thing, and it indicates a coach who doesn't have control of the team. He said he only really yelled at his team once in the locker room, and he felt like an idiot because he banged the trash can and his watch came off, and he had to fish his watch out of the trash can in front of the team. He said he never did it again.

That's why the Rivera video from a couple days ago shouldn't really endear anyone to him.

Think about it...if you're working at a company with 60 or so other people and your boss starts yelling at everyone like a lunatic, is the company going to function better?

People follow competence, confidence, and a good plan. Shit, did Bill Walsh seem like a hollerer? He seemed more like a scientist...and most of the games he coached he'd already won before kickoff.
RE: John Madden told a story on Chris Russo's show a while back  
Default : 12/11/2019 1:29 pm : link
In comment 14714702 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Russo asked Madden if he'd ever flipped out as a coach and really let his team have it. Madden said that's not really a thing, and it indicates a coach who doesn't have control of the team. He said he only really yelled at his team once in the locker room, and he felt like an idiot because he banged the trash can and his watch came off, and he had to fish his watch out of the trash can in front of the team. He said he never did it again.

That's why the Rivera video from a couple days ago shouldn't really endear anyone to him.

Think about it...if you're working at a company with 60 or so other people and your boss starts yelling at everyone like a lunatic, is the company going to function better?

People follow competence, confidence, and a good plan. Shit, did Bill Walsh seem like a hollerer? He seemed more like a scientist...and most of the games he coached he'd already won before kickoff.


You think Belichick turns into an assclown screaming at people when down at half time?
Some good it did Rivera too, they got smashed in the second half.
Well said Terps  
Greg from LI : 12/11/2019 1:38 pm : link
People have a bit of a wrong idea about Parcells, too. He wasn't that much of a screamer, though he certainly did his share of yelling (such as his famous sideline fight with Simms). He was more of a guy who used sarcasm as a weapon to challenge his players and see how they responded. He played a lot of mind games, like when he spent the week leading up to the 1986 Niners playoff game calling the offensive line "Club Thirteen" because the Niners limited them to 13 yards rushing in the regular season game.
I feel players respond  
Bubba : 12/11/2019 1:41 pm : link
better to a respected fellow player calling them out at halftime than a coach. Carl Eller was a well know half time screamer when the Vikes were dogging it and those teams performed pretty well.
Coughlin's coaching was perceived as a big part of the problem  
Vanzetti : 12/11/2019 2:14 pm : link
Seattle looked like they had been given the Giants gameplan in advance.

So Nicks was basically saying, "Look in the mirror and see how your coaching led to a bad performance before you start calling everyone else out."

I other words, Nicks was implicitly saying that Coughlin was doing exactly what you complain about: he was not taking responsibility for his own poor gameplan but instead blaming others.
Mara will provide the window dressing,  
morrison40 : 12/11/2019 3:46 pm : link
Gettleman will tell us how awesome he is, Shurmur will overpromise improvement and underdeliver and next year at this time the team will be in the spot it is now. Wash, rinse , repeat..., the mantra of the perennial loser.
I think a winning culture  
joeinpa : 12/12/2019 7:20 am : link
Has more to do with winning players than holding them accountable by calling them out in public.

Also we have no idea what is happening behind closed doors during film sessions etc in regards to being called out
A lot of people here mock the culture thing...  
EricJ : 12/12/2019 7:46 am : link
but nobody said you win on culture alone. Of course you need to have talented players and coaches. The point was that simply having talented players without the right culture and atmosphere will not get you a championship. Big difference...

Anyway.. yeah Parcells took a few years to remove anyone who was not on board. We started to add leaders who would take care of the locker room and the attitudes. Some of the players culled were talented guys.

We saw Bill bring in guys who had heart and played hard. Suggest watching the John Tuggle video again.

If I had to guess, something is broken inside that building  
jcn56 : 12/12/2019 8:08 am : link
When Coughlin and Reese were still here, they went through this - the drafting of players who were team captains to bolster the leadership on the squad. The guys they were getting were all supposed to be high character leaders - but the results were very much the same.

In comes McAdoo, with some changes to the approach in an attempt to relate to the players better; that seems to work very well in year 1, fails miserably in year 2.

The Giants tore down and traded away a bunch of guys because of what they perceived to be a lack of leadership and character, and there's still a huge void there. Now it gets pinned on Shurmur.

Something is rotten inside that building - and seems like it has been that way since right after Sandy.
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