Does Nate Solder get released after this season?

I don't think he's cuttable. The dead cap is huge, paying or drafting his replacement is another huge investment, and I'm not convinced he's even finished.

I'd bring in an entire new staff (no cap implications) and see if they can salvage the investment. There's more here than just Solder sucking, its a deeper team issue.

I see what you’re saying but Solder is constantly getting blown off the ball and beaten by his man, most of the time in critical situations. How exactly is that a deeper team issue? As an individual left tackle making big money, he has been absolutely terrible, maybe the worst player on our team.

even with the cap hit. Giants should eat it in a year where they have the room. Time to move on.

Is this an extension of his earlier ankle surgery? Can he heal or be repaired?

In comment 14714708 UConn4523 said:

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I don't think he's cuttable. The dead cap is huge, paying or drafting his replacement is another huge investment, and I'm not convinced he's even finished. I'd bring in an entire new staff (no cap implications) and see if they can salvage the investment. There's more here than just Solder sucking, its a deeper team issue.

UConn, there is very much cap implications. Its a $19.5 and 20.5 mil against the cap for a player who produces next to nothing.

In comment 14714708 UConn4523 said:

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I don't think he's cuttable. The dead cap is huge, paying or drafting his replacement is another huge investment, and I'm not convinced he's even finished. I'd bring in an entire new staff (no cap implications) and see if they can salvage the investment. There's more here than just Solder sucking, its a deeper team issue.

He’s been absolutely dreadful this season. He’s become a huge liability on our offense. In my opinion, he’s hurting Jones’a development. That guy should be cut.

In comment 14714713 ryanmkeane said:

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I see what you’re saying but Solder is constantly getting blown off the ball and beaten by his man, most of the time in critical situations. How exactly is that a deeper team issue? As an individual left tackle making big money, he has been absolutely terrible, maybe the worst player on our team.

I can't answer that question. As I said on a previous thread we need to completely revamp the coaching staff and I'd hire the best possible OLine coach out there. I wouldn't look to anyone currently in this organization on why he isn't effective (along with the rest of the OL).

someone will get there faster than him

In comment 14714720 Ben in Tampa said:

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In comment 14714708 UConn4523 said: Quote: I don't think he's cuttable. The dead cap is huge, paying or drafting his replacement is another huge investment, and I'm not convinced he's even finished. I'd bring in an entire new staff (no cap implications) and see if they can salvage the investment. There's more here than just Solder sucking, its a deeper team issue. UConn, there is very much cap implications. Its a $19.5 and 20.5 mil against the cap for a player who produces next to nothing.

I realize that. My point is that its possible it wouldn't be. And there's no guarantee we don't fuck up his replacement.

In comment 14714708 UConn4523 said:

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I don't think he's cuttable. The dead cap is huge, paying or drafting his replacement is another huge investment, and I'm not convinced he's even finished. I'd bring in an entire new staff (no cap implications) and see if they can salvage the investment. There's more here than just Solder sucking, its a deeper team issue.

I tend to take this side with 2 caveats:

1. if we don't have a better use for this offseasons cap space, eating Solder's hit may as good of a use as any to free up future dollars when there may be a better usage and we will have guys to resign for 2nd contracts like Barkley.

2. if there is more trade discussion around him at the draft you certainly need to consider it. Let's say they draft a LT prospect in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round (which they should probably do with or without Solder) and another team offers a pick for Solder, at that point you have to consider dumping the contract and taking back whatever compensation you can get.

Due to the dead cap. That doesn't mean he has to start at LT, either.

You can still sign Castonzo if you like, and move Solder to the right side.

You can deal with him at LT for another year.

You can use a premium pick on an OT. You can do 2 of the three above.

But this team still needs an OT even if your plan is for Solder to stick at LT next year. If you cut him, you need two of them. I know you're going to say we need two right now, and while I agree with that, you just can't count on a rookie OT to be better than Solder. It can actually be worse.

I think Solder stays, I think we sign an OT, I hope we draft an OT if not two of them. And hopefully you get some good luck with one of George Asafo-Adjei, Eric Smith, or Chad Slade developing into a quality player.

But Solder will be (or at least should be) a Giant next year.

And by the way, this doesn't have to be a bad thing. Solder isn't ancient, and it's actually possible for him to have a bounce back year in 2020.

He plays one more year and even if he's a reserve (on the bench). This FO has to stop paying big contracts in FA. Moderate contracts only for underappreciated players. Draft well and let guys walk who are too costly to retain. By not having an OL set up, the Giants are wasting the rookie contact of a decent throwing young QB. They are wasting the RB as well. If this wasn't a hard cap league I would say yes, cut him. What a colossal failure for almost 10 years of not being able to get an OL to function properly.

that's my thinking. There's too much smoke with this line to all just be bad. He can also be hurt, who knows.

We don't have enough info though, and I'd absolutely look outside the organization to someone to assess what's going on on the OL.

Some guys just deteriorate earlier than others in the world of sports. Nate is 31 years old and was middle of the road to begin with. His level of play seems to be falling off a cliff. With that said, I think the team should keep him for another year. The Giants are not winning the Super Bowl next year and the cap hit is huge. The team does not need any more dollars to spend this off season so keep him around for insurance purposes; expansive insurance to be sure.

is if DG gets fired and a new GM comes in and decides to tear it all down again

If DG is the GM, Solder will be a Giant

Tear what down? All the future core players on this team are in there first or second year. They are just beginning their careers. It takes three years minimum to even know what they are.

too much needs to be sorted out first. If I'm betting yes or no today? I bet no.

may be a better fit at RT. If the new staff doesn't see him as 'fixable' a move to RT might be the first, best option.

In comment 14714764 BamaBlue said:

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may be a better fit at RT. If the new staff doesn't see him as 'fixable' a move to RT might be the first, best option.

If he's getting destroyed on the left side, how will he be better on the right side? It would be the Flowers situation all over again, except this lump gets $19 million.

And he decides to cut Solder, I’ll be ok with that. Solder has been so bad that I don’t think he would be a competent RT either. He would be just taking up a roster space honestly. We have the cap space now to eat 13 million.

if we get Chase Young and cut him if we get Andrew Thomas. However after watching the Philly game where he was just horrible and the fact he has give up so many pressures and sacks this year it is time to just move on.

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Hopefully a new line coach can fix whatever the current issue is.

A player does not just go from being good to being complete garbage for no reason. Maybe a new better o-line coach can find the old player somewhere in that hot mess that is currently there.

So it very simply boils down to..

In one way or another, can you find a suitable replacement?

Can the 6m be more useful elsewhere?

Yes and yes. Cut him.

and as poorly as he is performing, right now,who replaces him ? Better not to take the cap hit and spend draft pick or FA for competition in 2020

We aren't getting a good starting OT. He'd be a good swing back up tackle or a potential starting LT if we pick someone who might need some time to develop.

Cutting him doesn't make a ton of sense.

The way he is playing right now. Is is just an injury the Giants are not disclosing that he is playing through? Either way I say use that 6.5 mill towards another player that will be a net positive on the field. His play right now actually makes Flowers look good.

coach (and?) GM evaluate him to see if he's usable...

In comment 14714810 Giantz_comeback said:

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The way he is playing right now. Is is just an injury the Giants are not disclosing that he is playing through? Either way I say use that 6.5 mill towards another player that will be a net positive on the field. His play right now actually makes Flowers look good.

Right but that's the point of keeping him, to hopefully fix some of it so he isn't a liability anymore.

If you are 100% convinced he will forever be terrible and is unfixable then sure, explore replacing him. But I want this team to do a little more digging before coming to that conclusion.

Would it shock anyone to see Solder cut this offseason, sign in Philly to "replace" Jason Peters and perform adequately?

In comment 14714729 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 14714708 UConn4523 said: Quote: I don't think he's cuttable. The dead cap is huge, paying or drafting his replacement is another huge investment, and I'm not convinced he's even finished. I'd bring in an entire new staff (no cap implications) and see if they can salvage the investment. There's more here than just Solder sucking, its a deeper team issue. I tend to take this side with 2 caveats: 1. if we don't have a better use for this offseasons cap space, eating Solder's hit may as good of a use as any to free up future dollars when there may be a better usage and we will have guys to resign for 2nd contracts like Barkley. 2. if there is more trade discussion around him at the draft you certainly need to consider it. Let's say they draft a LT prospect in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round (which they should probably do with or without Solder) and another team offers a pick for Solder, at that point you have to consider dumping the contract and taking back whatever compensation you can get.

I agree with the two of you here. Funny but everyone likes to bring out the ol' PFF rankings saying Flowers is better than Solder. Well guess what, if we get rid of Solder the next Tackle will be ranked lower than Solder one week and we'll get to hear about how bad a transaction that was and why couldn't we just move him to guard or center or QB?
Suck it up and get some competition for him or someone to replace him. Make him move or keep him as a backup. Unlike Flowers, I don't think he'd make a stink about moving(P.S.- this maybe one of the reasons Gettleman signed this quality person;))

In comment 14714717 Ben in Tampa said:

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even with the cap hit. Giants should eat it in a year where they have the room. Time to move on.

^This. The cap hit of course is worse than it otherwise would be because DG restructured his contract.

He should get released during the season

the better question is can you risk him blocking for Jones at LT for another year?

a future 3rd or 4th

No one is giving you a 2020 3rd or higher .... not even a 4th IMO in this coming draft ... but in the future picks values decline

In comment 14714777 Amtoft said:

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if we get Chase Young and cut him if we get Andrew Thomas. However after watching the Philly game where he was just horrible and the fact he has give up so many pressures and sacks this year it is time to just move on.

I don't think Thomas is a guy that's going to be a plus starting LT out of the box. I'm really not seeing what you guys are seeing with that guy.

I am really hoping that either Austin Jackson or Prince Tega Wanogho is the Giants second pick even if they have to trade up a few spots to grab them.

at the very least, to right tackle.

In comment 14714869 MotownGIANTS said:

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a future 3rd or 4th No one is giving you a 2020 3rd or higher .... not even a 4th IMO in this coming draft ... but in the future picks values decline

What possible value is an overpaid, totally inept LT worth, a parking pass?

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In comment 14714809 AdamBrag said:

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We aren't getting a good starting OT. He'd be a good swing back up tackle or a potential starting LT if we pick someone who might need some time to develop. Cutting him doesn't make a ton of sense.

This is not linear lol cutting him doesnt mean your budget for a LT is 6m nor does it mean the 6m has to go to that position.

Tough call. DG has been trying to get away from carrying so much dead money on the cap. But Solder and Ogletree haven't worked out at all.

We may be better off going for the two fold short term payoff by getting them off the roster and adding to next years Free Agent cash pool.

In comment 14715036 Ira said:

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I am in general in favor of this approach; however I consider Solder an exception. His presense in the locker as both the worst Left Tackle in the NFL and the highest paid left tackle in the NFL sends a very strong negative message to the team.

When you stink it up this bad, you have to go, no matter what. Even if his replacement sucks just as bad, its still better for the team that he is gone.

in 2020. Fairly certain that was what 2018 and 2019 were supposed to be.

You don’t cut him but have to find better starting tackles or at least future ones and relegate him to being a reserve.

What a mistake from the day he was signed.

An example of what not to do when you are a team needing a major restructuring...

In comment 14714736 allstarjim said:

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You can still sign Castonzo if you like, and move Solder to the right side.

That seems to be the compromise - move NS to RT.

Of course, there are more and more good pass rushers who line up over RT now...

on that signing.

but a move to RT would not be out of the question. Concentrate on picking up a good LT and Center. After that concentrate on Oline depth.

but not just given the job.

Need to find new set of adequate tackles, not top end free agents though.

Oh, and whatever the calculus was to assess Solder, start over...

Will probably extend him.

If the guy isn’t a competent Left Tackle, what makes anyone think he’ll be a good Right Tackle? Maybe a move to guard will do him well, but he’s not a starting NFL tackle any longer. The Giants need to cut bait with this guy this offseason.