The only thing we’ve heard from ownership is a brief comment from Tisch which included no vote of confidence for Gettleman or Shurmur.
Tisch referenced the need for “honest conversations” with Mara.
In the midst of the longest losing streak in franchise history, we’ve heard nothing from Mara. Shurmur is hanging out there like a piñata; there is no comment from ownership stating there is trust with the people in charge, nothing about seeing the plan through.
I think the silence is very telling. That coupled with Tisch’s comments makes me think we will see big changes.
I dont think DG will be doing anything other than packing his bags.
Atleast he doesn't have his hands all over the team like the other half of ownership.
The athletic trainer will get the axe at season's end. Major change by mara!
where does it end? are we forever doomed? does a proven HC like rivera turn things around?
my guess is DG stays, rivera is hired and brings a quality staff with him.
id be fine with that, but im also okay with getting rid of everyone if we have a proven guy waiting.
I think Shurmur will be fired, probably along with the assistants, and Rivera hired.
Of course, that could end up being wrong, but that's what I see happening.
I think Shurmur will be fired, probably along with the assistants, and Rivera hired.
Of course, that could end up being wrong, but that's what I see happening.
Me too. The bellyaching that occurs over it will be overwhelming and exhausting, but it is a logical move and I think would yield positive results despite all of the "Giants Way' cries.
I think Shurmur will be fired, probably along with the assistants, and Rivera hired.
Of course, that could end up being wrong, but that's what I see happening.
FMiC, I can definitely see that. Mara letting DG know that he is going to be let go and him letting DG "resign" .
Agreed, but soooo hope I am wrong. Keeping G will just mean digging the hole deeper.
It doesn't make sense to fire Shurmur and not Gettleman on any level. He hasn't done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt and his free agent deals have been a disaster, last thing we should want is a guy that knows he needs to win next year spending a ton of money this off-season.
He’s run successful businesses. Maybe he can be the one that steps in and says let’s have the football people in the building take care of this and we be hands off. Something like that.
Also maybe he can show Mara that we need to innovate and get ahead of the curve to get out of this mess.
I don’t know, I like that Tisch isn’t in the building everyday and is successful elsewhere. He might be able to provide a good outside look where Mara is way to close to the product to see it.
If you ask me what I'd like to see, I'd like a VP of football operations not named Mara or Tisch. Once in place, I'd like that person to make the decisions on Gettleman and Shurmur, which would more than likely be to replace.
I think Shurmur will be fired, probably along with the assistants, and Rivera hired.
Of course, that could end up being wrong, but that's what I see happening.
I have no clue what to expect for a GM or HC if Gettleman is fired. And all of this assumes Shurmer is fired no matter what.
I do think Gettleman & Rivera would be the best cohesion we had from GM/HC in a long time.
Let Gettleman draft in 2020, spend some money on DL, OL, and LB, and hire a championship level coach who knows how the fuck to lead a team, and we will be on the right path.
Totally agree. This team should not have 2 wins. Our coaches are not able to get the most out of this team.
1. Do we see Pat Shurmur making this team into a competitive team every year
2. Do we see Dave Gettleman turning this roster into a competitive team.
I think both need to be relieved of their duties. But my guess is Shurmur goes, Dave stays.
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Gettleman will remain.
Totally agree. This team should not have 2 wins. Our coaches are not able to get the most out of this team.
You're correct this team should not have 2 wins. They should have 1 win.
Let's hear which teams in the league clearly have a worse roster. That list has 1 or 2 teams on it at most.
Shurmur sucks. DG sucks. Get rid of both of those clowns.
Whether or not it's expected, Gettleman's return will be a disappointment for us all.
Oh we're set up for disappointment alright...many more years of it.
Neither John Mara nor Steve Tisch are "football guys" and have simply kept the structure of the front office intact and retained all the personnel that worked for their fathers before them. To their credit, this decision resulted in 2 Super Bowls and plenty of great Giant memories.
Maybe after 15 years keeping things as they have always been, one or both might realize that change is necessary to avoid further irrelevance in the future. If there are to be major changes, then I predict it will be both in the front office structure and with the on-field personnel (both coaching and players). My guess is that Tisch is ready to rip out current front office root/stem and Mara might want to take another year before admitting Gettleman was a mistake.
The first step in fixing any problem is admitting that you have a problem.
That being said, you could argue the other side in that Gettleman hasn't exactly instilled confidence here, and Rivera is somewhat of a retread coach, that it wouldn't work out and that this team needs a fresh philosophy for what the NFL is now.
I'd love to be able to be a frontrunner and always root for a winner...just not my personality. I live in Dallas and watch the Jerrah Jones shitshow with glee every year...but it also shows me that an owner can keep a franchise down for decades. Mara will get lucky and get it right someday......
Me too. The bellyaching that occurs over it will be overwhelming and exhausting, but it is a logical move and I think would yield positive results despite all of the "Giants Way' cries.
The so called "logic" of this outcome would be 100% the "Giants Way".
And that is taking the exit sign titled "Safe and Predictable".
What 3 coaches? Get a grip on reality. Its not an exact science.
I listened as well, and although he said that, I think that was just a talking point to say hey I want to win, I want to get back to winning consistently, etc..not necessarily that he needs and wants a perfect roster.
Gettleman was hired by accorsi in the "Giants Way", Shurmur had no ties to the team. Prior to coming in as the OC, McAdoo had no ties to the team or to TC or to the owners. And then he is HC and he implements a WC-type offense, a very un-Giants Way thing to do.
So Shurmur could get fired, and Rivera could be hired, and it will be looked at as the "Giants way", even though it is more like The Panthers Way.
Hell, the way the logic gets contorted here, once Reeves came to NY and started importing Broncos, that was probably the Giants Way because he was now a Giant HC and those guys now had ties to him!
The tentacles are long - the logic is short.
This decision should have been made weeks ago.
A year ago he hired a staff to help him do a complete reboot on how to evaluate talent, the college game, trends in the game, game planning, etc.
Sounded like a pretty impressive introspection.
The Giants Way!
They are going to bring someone from the outside to oversee football operations and report to both equally.
I hope to God I'm right.
The Giants Way!
You mean the last coach who took us to the playoffs?
This decision should have been made weeks ago.
I think Matt made a good point about Gettleman in another thread. I think his fate depends on what kind of coach comes with it. If the plan is Rivera, he would need to AGREE to take the job. What happens if Rivera says no & no other coach wants to work with a potential lame duck GM?
If Rivera & Rhule don’t take the Giant jobs with Gettleman or another candidate requires a different structure & Mara thinks he’s the right guy for the job, that’s when I think Gettleman is in trouble.
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has ties to McAdoo.
The Giants Way!
You mean the last coach who took us to the playoffs?
What does winning or losing have to do with the Giants Way?? I'd see the Giants Way as having a SB victory in every decade since the 80's, but unsurprisingly, it has been turned into a negative as if bringing in non-Giant ties ensures success.
I'm sure you already know this, but everyone's favorite Rhule has giants ties, so is it called the Giants Way if he succeeds or only when he fails?
They are going to bring someone from the outside to oversee football operations and report to both equally.
I hope to God I'm right.
I'm not sure Tisch has the wherewithal to push for that.
If you know your Giants history that's how George Young became the GM in 1979.
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if Gettleman is done, it will be from stepping down, not being fired, but I don't expect to see a change there.
I think Shurmur will be fired, probably along with the assistants, and Rivera hired.
Of course, that could end up being wrong, but that's what I see happening.
FMiC, I can definitely see that. Mara letting DG know that he is going to be let go and him letting DG "resign" .
+2. Unfortunately, I agree. I'd rather see the Giants hire an up and coming DC to replace Shurmur, but the Giants rarely do anything bold, and certainly won't in the aftermath of one of the worst seasons in franchise history. That's also why DG will remain, along with the fact that he was right to pick Jones at #6. My view is that is not enough to offset all of his mistakes in FA.
They are going to bring someone from the outside to oversee football operations and report to both equally.
I hope to God I'm right.
I hope so.
My sense is they let Gettleman continue to build and they start over with a new coaching staff. Say what you want about Gettleman, but when a mistake is made, he recognizes it and moves on. He will come to this conclusion about the coaching staff (if he has not already) and make the change. But this will be his last hire. If there is a next time, its with an entirely new regime.
Gettleman was hired by accorsi in the "Giants Way", Shurmur had no ties to the team. Prior to coming in as the OC, McAdoo had no ties to the team or to TC or to the owners. And then he is HC and he implements a WC-type offense, a very un-Giants Way thing to do.
So Shurmur could get fired, and Rivera could be hired, and it will be looked at as the "Giants way", even though it is more like The Panthers Way.
Hell, the way the logic gets contorted here, once Reeves came to NY and started importing Broncos, that was probably the Giants Way because he was now a Giant HC and those guys now had ties to him!
The tentacles are long - the logic is short.
Just because every hire doesn’t follow some linear pattern doesn’t mean the Giants don’t have a way of doing things that has been a disaster for 70% of the decade
Gettleman has a vision: strong running game, short passing game, stout defense. Whether you agree with the vision or not, it's a vision and we've spent very high draft picks to implement it. Swapping out GM's means a new vision and starting all over again. Don't see that as any recipe for a quick turnaround.
While Gettleman has a vision, the implementation has been, at best, uneven. His decision to strip the team of talent to have to spend resources at the same positions was idiotic, his free agent signings bad and his hiring of Shurmur a debacle. But, the Shurmur mistake will be rectified and the resources have been spent. His drafting has been at least average which is an improvement over his incompetent predecessor.
He should have another year to implement the vision with another very high draft pick and a last place schedule.
The athletic trainer will get the axe at season's end. Major change by mara!
Tongue-in-cheek, I know, but Ronnie Barnes has his job FOR LIFE... or as long as he wants it! That is about as rock-solid, ironclad-assured as anything I can conceive regarding this franchise.
What does winning or losing have to do with the Giants Way?? I'd see the Giants Way as having a SB victory in every decade since the 80's, but unsurprisingly, it has been turned into a negative as if bringing in non-Giant ties ensures success.
I'm sure you already know this, but everyone's favorite Rhule has giants ties, so is it called the Giants Way if he succeeds or only when he fails?
There has been an incestuous element to how Jints Central has been doing business for a while now. It's stale and predictable. I bet Jints Central smells like my grandmother's apartment. So I believe this approach has run its course, and we need a new approach. The trend line speaks for itself.
As for Rhule, I am not a Rhule guy. Want no part of him. He seems best suited for the college game.
I want a coach who can come in wearing both the HC and GM hats. In other words, I am dreaming...
A vicious cycle of ineptness. When in essence, should hire an "outside" gm (not mara's cronies etc) and "outside" gm hire his hc and go from along a football operations guy.
But, i'll wait for the follies to continue
70% of the decade?? The "Giants way" has been referenced for decades, and rarely in positive references. Yet, we are among the leaders in SB wins and have spread them out from the 80's to today.
In this decade, the Giants have had 3 HC's with vastly different backgrounds and level of experience. Pointing to the failures here as being because of a consistently poor history is just another wayward path to take to vent frustration.
Man I feel badly for fans who have no hope. Don’t know how you stay a fan.
Me, I see franchise with much success, Amit if it after some pretty bad periods of football.
John Mara is perfectly capable of picking a good coach, 0-2 doesn’t mean squat. Give the guy credit for being willing to move on from mistakes
Seems more like just setting up a narrative on which to bash the team if they don't take that path. HC/GM combos rarely work out well.
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I want a coach who can come in wearing both the HC and GM hats. In other words, I am dreaming...
Seems more like just setting up a narrative on which to bash the team if they don't take that path. HC/GM combos rarely work out well.
It's not tried enough. But it has worked with the right leader.
Alas, too many teams default to the infrastructure that's been around for over a half century. And just assume it's the right way to do business. It's superfluous. Too many hands in the cookie jar.
I've used this example before, but colleges don't have a GM picking their recruits. The HCs pick the players he wants to develop and coach for his system. And the FBS is big, big business today - like the NFL.
That's basically true for almost every team. They all have a long stretch or stretches without success - the Patriots included.
This decision should have been made weeks ago.
Terps, this is why when they went to half on Monday up 17-3, I jokingly said to a friend that Eli was about to save Shurmur's job if they actually win this. When it hit me they might actually win, then I realized this would be the out management can use to justify his return similar to when Gettleman used a meaningless December 2017 game against the Eagles as his main case for bringing Eli back for 2018.
When the year ends, Shurmur will have 32 games of Giants data for ownership to work with. The fact that after 90.6% (29 of 32 games) is already in that there is still doubt and ownership is still holding on to the remaining 9.4% to see if there is reason to retain him is very alarming.
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Same people who hired 3 crappy HCs and DG will still be doing the hiring. Mara is joke and has turned this franchise into a joke. I agree we may see major changes, just have a feeling it will lead to more major changes in 2-3 years.
Man I feel badly for fans who have no hope. Don’t know how you stay a fan.
Me, I see franchise with much success, Amit if it after some pretty bad periods of football.
John Mara is perfectly capable of picking a good coach, 0-2 doesn’t mean squat. Give the guy credit for being willing to move on from mistakes
We all have hope. At 2-3 I'm screaming at the TV that it's not too late to have a season.
Now we're 2-11. After going 5-11. After going 3-13.
Time for ownership to start trying to win, and stop hoping to win.
A college coach can literally try and target any player to go after. And some schools have much better means of attracting players. A GM doesn't have the luxury of his choice of any player and he's constrained by a salary cap. It is a horrible example to cite.
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There were two good situations that both happened to cross over a decade.
That's basically true for almost every team. They all have a long stretch or stretches without success - the Patriots included.
Yeah but the patriots latest situation has been going for nearly 20 years.
This is a bed of their own making. They can get out of it, or they can keep living in the '80s.
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I've used this example before, but colleges don't have a GM picking their recruits. The HCs pick the players he wants to develop and coach for his system. And the FBS is big, big business today - like the NFL.
A college coach can literally try and target any player to go after. And some schools have much better means of attracting players. A GM doesn't have the luxury of his choice of any player and he's constrained by a salary cap. It is a horrible example to cite.
The NFL also has profit and marketing requirements that are different than NCAA. I think that’s the major reason why they don’t give the HC the reigns.
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you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
Whether or not it's expected, Gettleman's return will be a disappointment for us all.
Agree completely, but then again firing both Gettleman and Shurmur would be an admission of failure by the ownership and it would deviate from the image of patience that they have tried hard to foster. In looking for an example of patience, look no further than the stands this weekend where tens of thousands of suffering Giant fans will again devote and entire afternoon to watching the lousy product that ownership, DG and PS have been providing for the past two years.
This is a bed of their own making. They can get out of it, or they can keep living in the '80s.
That's not even close to what I said. I've mocked those who continually refer to "The Giants Way", both in that it is a formula always followed or that it should be looked at negatively. The implied outcome is that the Giants are doomed to have terrible years from here on out.
And it is funny to refer to them living in the 80's when they've won 2 SB's in the past 15 years. You honestly think they don't want to improve or are incapable of it??
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has ties to McAdoo.
The Giants Way!
You mean the last coach who took us to the playoffs?
Giant assist from Spags and the D. BTW looking pretty good in KC
Shit, what better proof of this is there than Daniel Jones himself? The guy comes off as an Eli clone...smart, quality guy that's even a Cutcliffe disciple. He even looks a little like him.
I think John Mara is a good man and well intentioned...that gives me hope. As a Mets fan I know what scumbag ownership looks like, and Mara ain't that. But he can be a gentleman and still be lost at sea. He is completely lost with how the NFL functions in 2019. He had an opportunity to listen to some new voices in his last GM search; instead it was a shambolic joke. A deserved 7-22 record later he again has an opportunity to refresh the Giants on current best practices. Because I think Mara's a good, smart man...I'm hoping he takes advantage of this opportunity. He's got a blank slate if he wants it...when Eli leaves there are no sacred cows left.
Now's the fucking time.
We'll have a new coaching staff next season as we should. These two have been so bad at their jobs it's actually going to insulate DG from some of the fallout. He'll be back.
An overseer of all football operations is exactly what bw, many others, and I have been pushing for.
The Giants made a huge mistake not letting Coughlin and Reese go at the same time, let's hope they're not dumb enough to do the same thing this time.
Gettleman has been a train wreck. Giving him an extra year just sets the Giants at least 1 year back in getting this thing turned around.
Terps has been right a hell of a lot more than 99% of BBI when it comes to decisions the Giants have made.
Remember when people ridiculed Terps for saying last year that the Ravens would laugh at the Giants if the Giants offered Barkley for Jackson?
How's that one working out? Oh wait, when Barkley sucks it's everyone elses fault or an injury excuse.
The roster is absolutely awful. The Giants do not have one unit that is a strength.
It's like some people can't possibly believe that the coach sucks AND the GM sucks. It has to be one or the other. The GM has given an awful coach an awful roster, and not surprising we are seeing awful results.
There were people on here that thought this Giants team could contend for a playoff spot the last couple years. That's as delusional as it gets. There isn't a coach in the league who could make this roster a playoff contender.
How could even one person on here want Gettleman being the man who decides what to spend 10's of million dollars in cap space on?
What has Dave Gettleman done for the Giants since he was hired as GM that people on here are happy with? Maybe Daniel Jones, what else?
Who's the 1%?
Just kidding.
I actually liked the Gettleman hire initially, and was happy when he tore up the shitty 2017 team. I also thought the Solder signing made sense when it happened...how'd I look on that one?
That's why.
What's really scary is there is more I can add to illustrate just how incompetent shurmur is but I'm out of time my dinner is ready.
What's the opposite of a fair-weather fan?
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I've used this example before, but colleges don't have a GM picking their recruits. The HCs pick the players he wants to develop and coach for his system. And the FBS is big, big business today - like the NFL.
A college coach can literally try and target any player to go after. And some schools have much better means of attracting players. A GM doesn't have the luxury of his choice of any player and he's constrained by a salary cap. It is a horrible example to cite.
Colleges are essentially capped with scholarship limitations at 85.
But the underlying point, the more important point, is that college coaches are picking their players to develop and fit into their system. Except for clearing it with admissions, they doesn't have to cede or share approval with another layer of management.
In the NFL, typically at least three levels have to agree on the acquisition of a player - coach, GM, owner. And if there is dispute, the owner can break a tie.
I'll never forgot the interview with Fassel during the '98 or '99 draft. He was being interviewed by ESPN and he looked like he just came back from a family funeral. Then stories leaked out that he and Ernie (maybe it was still GY) were battling over taking specific players. To me, that's just not the best approach. Let the coach succeed or fail with HIS players, not players he's not totally committed to...
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no correlation on how the college team is built to the NFL:
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I've used this example before, but colleges don't have a GM picking their recruits. The HCs pick the players he wants to develop and coach for his system. And the FBS is big, big business today - like the NFL.
A college coach can literally try and target any player to go after. And some schools have much better means of attracting players. A GM doesn't have the luxury of his choice of any player and he's constrained by a salary cap. It is a horrible example to cite.
Colleges are essentially capped with scholarship limitations at 85.
But the underlying point, the more important point, is that college coaches are picking their players to develop and fit into their system. Except for clearing it with admissions, they doesn't have to cede or share approval with another layer of management.
In the NFL, typically at least three levels have to agree on the acquisition of a player - coach, GM, owner. And if there is dispute, the owner can break a tie.
I'll never forgot the interview with Fassel during the '98 or '99 draft. He was being interviewed by ESPN and he looked like he just came back from a family funeral. Then stories leaked out that he and Ernie (maybe it was still GY) were battling over taking specific players. To me, that's just not the best approach. Let the coach succeed or fail with HIS players, not players he's not totally committed to...
The problem with your approach is coaches come and go and if you replace the current coach the next coach will change the roaster to their satisfaction. You can't keep turning over the roaster to suit the coaches but coaches should have a major say in personnel acquisition.
This was a rebuild starting in August 2018. As soon as they saw this team in July/August, they cut half the team. That was when they signaled the white flag.
Now, its certainly disputable whether the rebuild is taking shape or if we're stuck in mediocrity.
I've said this a few times here but i'll say it again. Follow the leaks. Ben McAdoo was JR's 3rd choice. Jerry Reese signed Rhett Ellison who Ben didn't even put on the field. Ben wanted a different QB, no one budged (sounds like JR was on board though)
Dave Gettleman has said his preference is a defensive minded coach, the Giants hire Pat Shurmur.
2 times in a row the Giants hire a WCO coach who calls his own plays, and not only that, had coordinators underneath them they didn't cede playcalling to. What does that tell you? Both coaches offensive schemes lacked innovation and their clock management was poor. Both seemed over their heads.
My million dollar question is this - how much say does the GM have in making decisions?
Tom Coughlin and Jerry Reese lacked cohesion in the latter half of TC's time here, Benny Mac and Jerry Reese lacked cohesion and Gettleman & Shurmur didn't work.
If they don't trust Dave Gettleman to hire the right coach, find a new GM. If they do, please let him make the decision entirely on his own (i'm not saying ownership shouldn't interview them, simply that he should let the GM have final say)
I'd be on board with Gettleman & Rivera, i like the idea of Ron because i believe he'll bring in a solid staff.
The Giants have been lacking COACHING and i'm tired of it. Bring in some winners.
This was a rebuild starting in August 2018.
No it wasn't.
Rebuilding teams do not draft RBs in the top 3, and have the GM declare the starting QB with a fork in his back "still has it" because of one game.
Both last and this seasons teams were sold as playoff caliber and massively failed to deliver...
It doesn't make sense to fire Shurmur and not Gettleman on any level. He hasn't done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt and his free agent deals have been a disaster, last thing we should want is a guy that knows he needs to win next year spending a ton of money this off-season.
What did John Lynch do to earn a 3rd season?
If you know your Giants history that's how George Young became the GM in 1979.
Wherewithal was the wrong word. I'm not convinced Tisch has an awareness of what the problems are or how to fix them.
Ironically Gettleman has done many of the things they cried for — finding Eli’s replacement, getting rid of Odell, and tearing the whole team down.
The reality is Gettleman had to be perfect in FA and the draft to turn this around in year 2. There was nothing to build around when he got here.
He wasn’t perfect. He got the HC wrong in a weak class. He’s had a bunch of FA misses. But he’s had some really good drafts, cleaned up the cap, and found the QB of the future.
I’m pro DG at the moment but I’m reserving judgment until this off-season plays out. He has to get the HC right. He has to make the right moves in FA this year and he has to have another good draft. I expect him to be a man of his word and fix the trenches. This may sound like a big ask but the opportunity will be there this year to accomplish most if not all of these tasks.
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what has Gettleman done to earn a 3rd season? And having a GM who is year to year if the team doesnt perform is a disaster waiting to happen when you hire a new coach. If they keep Gettleman and he gets fired next year you either force the existing coach on a new GM which is an awful idea or you fire another coach after just 1 year, also a bad look.
It doesn't make sense to fire Shurmur and not Gettleman on any level. He hasn't done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt and his free agent deals have been a disaster, last thing we should want is a guy that knows he needs to win next year spending a ton of money this off-season.
What did John Lynch do to earn a 3rd season?
The 49ers didn’t become 11-2 overnight. They would have been better than 4-12 last year if Garrapolo hadn’t gotten hurt and they didn’t have to start Mullen’s and Beathard.
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Try to persuade you about anything. They have a pre determined idea about what should be done. Their qualifications are zip, the specifics are few and far between and don’t make sense. The most logical thing we can hope for, is Tisch pushes for an overseer of all football operations, and the Maras step away from the vehicle.
Ironically Gettleman has done many of the things they cried for — finding Eli’s replacement, getting rid of Odell, and tearing the whole team down.
The reality is Gettleman had to be perfect in FA and the draft to turn this around in year 2. There was nothing to build around when he got here.
He wasn’t perfect. He got the HC wrong in a weak class. He’s had a bunch of FA misses. But he’s had some really good drafts, cleaned up the cap, and found the QB of the future.
I’m pro DG at the moment but I’m reserving judgment until this off-season plays out. He has to get the HC right. He has to make the right moves in FA this year and he has to have another good draft. I expect him to be a man of his word and fix the trenches. This may sound like a big ask but the opportunity will be there this year to accomplish most if not all of these tasks.
Nobody would be on Dave Gettleman right now if this team was on pace for 7 wins. The complaint is not that he failed to be perfect. The complaint is they are a dumpster fire with no evident growth from last year.
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In comment 14714927 MookGiants said:
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what has Gettleman done to earn a 3rd season? And having a GM who is year to year if the team doesnt perform is a disaster waiting to happen when you hire a new coach. If they keep Gettleman and he gets fired next year you either force the existing coach on a new GM which is an awful idea or you fire another coach after just 1 year, also a bad look.
It doesn't make sense to fire Shurmur and not Gettleman on any level. He hasn't done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt and his free agent deals have been a disaster, last thing we should want is a guy that knows he needs to win next year spending a ton of money this off-season.
What did John Lynch do to earn a 3rd season?
The 49ers didn’t become 11-2 overnight. They would have been better than 4-12 last year if Garrapolo hadn’t gotten hurt and they didn’t have to start Mullen’s and Beathard.
The mantra is it’s all about W-L from GoTerps and his merry band of dick riders.
If Gettleman should be fired based on the team’s record during his tenure then Lynch should’ve been fired as well.
Another poster made an interesting post about all of the suspect moves Lynch has made during his tenure — and how he was under fire until the team started winning this year. BBI would explode if Gettleman did some of the shit Lynch has done.
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In comment 14715174 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14714927 MookGiants said:
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what has Gettleman done to earn a 3rd season? And having a GM who is year to year if the team doesnt perform is a disaster waiting to happen when you hire a new coach. If they keep Gettleman and he gets fired next year you either force the existing coach on a new GM which is an awful idea or you fire another coach after just 1 year, also a bad look.
It doesn't make sense to fire Shurmur and not Gettleman on any level. He hasn't done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt and his free agent deals have been a disaster, last thing we should want is a guy that knows he needs to win next year spending a ton of money this off-season.
What did John Lynch do to earn a 3rd season?
The 49ers didn’t become 11-2 overnight. They would have been better than 4-12 last year if Garrapolo hadn’t gotten hurt and they didn’t have to start Mullen’s and Beathard.
The mantra is it’s all about W-L from GoTerps and his merry band of dick riders.
If Gettleman should be fired based on the team’s record during his tenure then Lynch should’ve been fired as well.
Another poster made an interesting post about all of the suspect moves Lynch has made during his tenure — and how he was under fire until the team started winning this year. BBI would explode if Gettleman did some of the shit Lynch has done.
Gettleman’s done enough damage here already for many here to explode.
We don't need to resort to hyperbole to prove this point.
Rivera will likely be one of the top coaching candidates, he won't be "desperate".
His drafts haven't been anywhere near as good as people on BBI believe. The 2018 draft that everyone loved him for doesn't look great. Barkley has had a bad year. Hernandez has been meh.
2019 draft Jones looks ok but still very early.
His free agency acquisitions have been awful. He's made asinine moves like the trade for Leonard Williams. He brought back Eli Manning this year and paid him a ton of money when it was very clear he was finished. Restructured solders contract creating more dead money in the future. Somehow thought acquiring Peppers was like getting another 1st round pick when in reality Peppers stinks.
The list of good moves he's made begins and ends with Daniel Jones. The offensive line being in the shape it is after he talked a big game when he got here is comical.
He said in May that the idea that Eli was overpaid is a "crock".
He said something on I believe ESPN earlier in the year about how you can't pay average players big time money in free agency, yet he has done exactly that.
He also hired Pat Shurmur.
He has done a remarkably poor job.
You’re a fool if you really believe this.
Tons of money to spend and a GM who has done a terrible job in free agency while also knowing he needs to win next year is a disaster. Add to it that he'll be hiring another coach and if you fire him after next year you have a coach there that you are going to make a new GM be ok with.
Just makes no sense on any level. There is not one good reason to bring Gettleman back. How does anyone on here have any confidence in him?
It really is strange that you always need to let us know you're getting hammered regularly.
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Than the day DG started “kicking ass” 2 years ago. Both he and the Shurminator need to be shown the door on Black Monday. If Dave stays and predictably hires a desperate to work again Ron Rivera, it’s another colossal mistake by this ownership.
You’re a fool if you really believe this.
This regime inherited a 3-13 team. In their first year, they went 5-11 after playing a handful of backup QB’s. That team was probably equal to a 3-13 team. And this is after they determined immediately that they should compete for the playoffs in 2018, which turned out to be a gross over evaluation of the roster. Then this year we sit at 2-11, which is a chip shot missed FG from being 1-12. Yeah, the thing is trending downward. DG blows serious cock. He should be sent out to pasture. It’s well deserved at this point.
If Gettleman should be fired based on the team’s record during his tenure then Lynch should’ve been fired as well.
Another poster made an interesting post about all of the suspect moves Lynch has made during his tenure — and how he was under fire until the team started winning this year. BBI would explode if Gettleman did some of the shit Lynch has done.
Lynch and Shanahan are under six year contracts and it's been expressed by York that the 9ers were entering a rebuild when they were hired.
As reported at their joint press conference announcing Shanahan and Lynch:
Meanwhile, Resume Dave was leading the fans to believe we could be a playoff team and reload by building around Eli. Mara was suggesting similar thoughts.
So the tenure of setting expectations were considerably different between the 9ers and Jints Central.
This was a rebuild starting in August 2018. As soon as they saw this team in July/August, they cut half the team. That was when they signaled the white flag.
Now, its certainly disputable whether the rebuild is taking shape or if we're stuck in mediocrity.
I've said this a few times here but i'll say it again. Follow the leaks. Ben McAdoo was JR's 3rd choice. Jerry Reese signed Rhett Ellison who Ben didn't even put on the field. Ben wanted a different QB, no one budged (sounds like JR was on board though)
Dave Gettleman has said his preference is a defensive minded coach, the Giants hire Pat Shurmur.
2 times in a row the Giants hire a WCO coach who calls his own plays, and not only that, had coordinators underneath them they didn't cede playcalling to. What does that tell you? Both coaches offensive schemes lacked innovation and their clock management was poor. Both seemed over their heads.
My million dollar question is this - how much say does the GM have in making decisions?
Tom Coughlin and Jerry Reese lacked cohesion in the latter half of TC's time here, Benny Mac and Jerry Reese lacked cohesion and Gettleman & Shurmur didn't work.
If they don't trust Dave Gettleman to hire the right coach, find a new GM. If they do, please let him make the decision entirely on his own (i'm not saying ownership shouldn't interview them, simply that he should let the GM have final say)
I'd be on board with Gettleman & Rivera, i like the idea of Ron because i believe he'll bring in a solid staff.
The Giants have been lacking COACHING and i'm tired of it. Bring in some winners.
Great post. I would be good with DG and Rivera.
My only other choice would be Matt Rhule. I doubt Mara goes for a college guy.
This roster has good players. Why is literally no one playing up to their potential? Can anyone name 1 player on this team that we're getting the most out of? An average player whose a perfect scheme fit that overproduces?
I mean the answer for me is literally zero. No one. Not 1 out of 53.
We all agree the coaching sucks right?
So how can we accurately decipher whose playing terribly because of the coaching compared to a guy who simply sucks? Its gotta be a mixture of both, but i'd say many fall in the former category.
And thats arguably the worst position to be in, not really knowing what we have in a lot of these guys.
Who hired Shurmur? Dave or John?
If Dave Gettleman gets fired, my hunch is he really vouched hard for Shurmur. If he stays, i think Mara pushed for Pat. Just a hunch though.
Great post. I would be good with DG and Rivera.
My only other choice would be Matt Rhule. I doubt Mara goes for a college guy.
Thanks. I love Matt Rhule, i think he'll eventually be a good NFL coach. My concern is the rest of his staff. I understand everyone being focused on the next HC, but my concern is the whole staff. We're not just missing on HC's, we're flat out hiring the wrong coordinators (aside from McGaughey).
That's why i like Ron Rivera. I really believe his staff would be well rounded.
We paid dipshit Beckham $16M this year for nothing. Gettleman had 8 months from the moment he got the job to trade Beckham. You'll remember rumors were swirling especially that SF wanted him. I'd bet a paycheck that we turned down a better deal from SF BEFORE he signed the contract than we got from Cleveland AFTER he signed the contract.
Since Gettleman took over everything about the way this team operates has been shambolic and amateurish. He took a terrible team and somehow made it worse.
I can't believe the appetite for sticking up for these people at 7-22. I really can't.
A certain chunk of the commentariat here loves nothing more than a grumpy old fart who spews silly cliches and sounds like he's talking tough. That's a real football man!
This roster has good players. Why is literally no one playing up to their potential? Can anyone name 1 player on this team that we're getting the most out of? An average player whose a perfect scheme fit that overproduces?
I mean the answer for me is literally zero. No one. Not 1 out of 53.
We all agree the coaching sucks right?
So how can we accurately decipher whose playing terribly because of the coaching compared to a guy who simply sucks? Its gotta be a mixture of both, but i'd say many fall in the former category.
And thats arguably the worst position to be in, not really knowing what we have in a lot of these guys.
Who hired Shurmur? Dave or John?
If Dave Gettleman gets fired, my hunch is he really vouched hard for Shurmur. If he stays, i think Mara pushed for Pat. Just a hunch though.
Gettleman recommended Shurmur and Mara rubber stamped it.
Everyone in that front office had a singular goal - build a team, through players and coaches, to give Eli a chance for a grand send off. That's why Mara hired Accorsi to hire Gettleman who hired Shurmur. Do you think when they all came out in 2018 declaring their love for Eli - based on some apparent film study - that that was just coincidence?
I'm okay with the position that this coaching staff is abysmal. I'm not okay, however, assuming the players Gettleman drafted are really good and are simply victims of that poor coaching. That's an easy for the Gettleman Brigade...
We paid dipshit Beckham $16M this year for nothing. Gettleman had 8 months from the moment he got the job to trade Beckham. You'll remember rumors were swirling especially that SF wanted him. I'd bet a paycheck that we turned down a better deal from SF BEFORE he signed the contract than we got from Cleveland AFTER he signed the contract.
Since Gettleman took over everything about the way this team operates has been shambolic and amateurish. He took a terrible team and somehow made it worse.
I can't believe the appetite for sticking up for these people at 7-22. I really can't.
So because he didn’t move Beckham when he could have based on unsubstantiated speculation on your part, and he didn’t cut Eli when you wanted him to, he botched the moves? Sounds completely logical and unemotional.
The niners rumor is just that, a rumor. No one knows if there was an offer or what the offer was.
The Eli situation happens all the time in the NFL. Why didn’t the Ravens cut Joe Flacco the second after they drafted Lamar in 18? Flacco’s cap hit was 24.75 million (more than Eli) and he stuck around the entire year. I don’t see you shitting on Ozzie Newsome for the same move.
You and a handful of others here are simply blinded by hate and can’t be reasoned with.
If I want him gone it's because his performance has been catastrophic.
If I want him gone it's because his performance has been catastrophic.
You were also vocal about getting rid of JPP and all of the overpaid under performing vets — which he did.
Gettleman could hire Rhule as HC and 3 analytics guru’s to hold his dick while he took a piss and you’d still find a way to shit on the moves.
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I liked the hire!
If I want him gone it's because his performance has been catastrophic.
You were also vocal about getting rid of JPP and all of the overpaid under performing vets — which he did.
Gettleman could hire Rhule as HC and 3 analytics guru’s to hold his dick while he took a piss and you’d still find a way to shit on the moves.
He completely failed to reassemble the team. Totally and utterly. The FA signings have been a disaster. The Barkley pick was a disaster. The QB transition was delayed and clumsily achieved, costing a lot of cap space unnecessarily.
He tore up a bad team. That was his service. He then built a worse team.
Two wasted years.
Gettleman could hire Rhule as HC and 3 analytics guru’s to hold his dick while he took a piss and you’d still find a way to shit on the moves.
Wait are the analytics guru's holding Gettleman or Rhule's dick?
I feel like your argument loses a lot of credibility with this confusion.
It's great you like the management and direction of the team, but you also repeated a number of times how the league was sleeping on the Giants coming into this year. And they are dismal and very far from competing. To be so profoundly bad, both the roster and coaching require being really, really bad.
The team Gettleman inherited was a year removed from an 11 win season.Eleven wins is an eternity from where this team is.
Haven't both GT and BW been repeatedly endorsing that specific thing?
The reality is Gettleman had to be perfect in FA and the draft to turn this around in year 2. There was nothing to build around when he got here.
He wasn’t perfect. He got the HC wrong in a weak class. He’s had a bunch of FA misses. But he’s had some really good drafts, cleaned up the cap, and found the QB of the future.
I’m pro DG at the moment but I’m reserving judgment until this off-season plays out. He has to get the HC right. He has to make the right moves in FA this year and he has to have another good draft. I expect him to be a man of his word and fix the trenches. This may sound like a big ask but the opportunity will be there this year to accomplish most if not all of these tasks.
There is not an appreciation for how poor the roster was when Gettleman took it over and the depth of the rebuild that has to happen. We went almost 5 full seasons of bare drafts and an overpay in 2016 for FA that crippled the cap.
In a scenario like that, the GM has to be perfect to turn things around. But what Gettleman did was many things people wanted. He tore down the roster. He got rid of malcontents. He drafted a QB to replace Eli. This is what people asked for and now they are screaming, "But he didn't do it right!!" and I'm not convinced that is true. Like mentioned above, John Lynch looked like an idiot his first couple of seasons, and he also has the highest cap allocation to the RB position - something that is universally regarded as being a major pock mark on the chance to win.
Gettleman has presumably delivered our replacement QB and a stud RB. That alone should buy him time to finish the work
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In comment 14715266 Go Terps said:
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I liked the hire!
If I want him gone it's because his performance has been catastrophic.
You were also vocal about getting rid of JPP and all of the overpaid under performing vets — which he did.
Gettleman could hire Rhule as HC and 3 analytics guru’s to hold his dick while he took a piss and you’d still find a way to shit on the moves.
He completely failed to reassemble the team. Totally and utterly. The FA signings have been a disaster. The Barkley pick was a disaster. The QB transition was delayed and clumsily achieved, costing a lot of cap space unnecessarily.
He tore up a bad team. That was his service. He then built a worse team.
Two wasted years.
Gettleman’s biggest failure was hiring the wrong coach. The talent on the roster is good enough right now to be winning the division.
Ultimately that falls on Gettleman but I’m willing to give him another crack at it given the fact that the candidates who got hired that year were pretty weak across the board. Gettleman commented in an interview soon after he got hired that he preferred a defensive minded HC. That leads me to believe that he either settled on Shurmur or ownership leaned in that direction, or a combination of both.
This year looks to be a much stronger class of candidates. Rivera would be a fine hire and is much more aligned philosophically with Gettleman than Shurmur is or ever will be.
I know it’s fashionable to shit on the organization right now but I’m willing to ride this out another year before turning to the dark side.
Yet Lynch is lauded as a genius and Gettleman is a senile buffoon.
I believe Gettleman is batting a little under .500, and Shurmur and the staff below that.
Gettleman chose to dump clean the roster. I don't disagree the roster had some jerks. Maybe it's the head coach's job to handle some jerks. It was a bad team so, all told I don't miss anyone he dumped.
My fear is the players he's invested in aren't doing well. The list of veteran acquisitions he's missed on has been litigated to death.
What Gettleman has shown is he can get first round picks right, and beyond that, the luck of the draw in the draft doesn't spare him.
On the other hand, they did sign him immediately to a long term contract and we don't even know we will be able to accomplish that, and he has contributed meaningfully as part of a rotation to one of the best D's in the league so... I'm not sure we can brandish it as a reason to give Gettleman kudos.
This roster winning this division isn’t some pipe dream. 5 wins has them leading the division right now. Better coaching wins Cards, Lions, Jets, Bears, second Dallas game, and Eagles. That’s 6 extra wins.
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Might be talented enough to win this apocalyptic division if it were coached by Bill Walsh or something. I highly doubt it -- we still have no respectable back 7 and no way to hinder even the most narcoleptic of pass rushes. But I suppose it isn't as impossible as, say, Gettleman turning us into a perennial playoff team is.
This roster winning this division isn’t some pipe dream. 5 wins has them leading the division right now. Better coaching wins Cards, Lions, Jets, Bears, second Dallas game, and Eagles. That’s 6 extra wins.
Better players could have won those 6 games too. See how easy that is?
Worst OL and defense; "roster isn't all that bad, though."
Uh-huh.
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Might be talented enough to win this apocalyptic division if it were coached by Bill Walsh or something. I highly doubt it -- we still have no respectable back 7 and no way to hinder even the most narcoleptic of pass rushes. But I suppose it isn't as impossible as, say, Gettleman turning us into a perennial playoff team is.
This roster winning this division isn’t some pipe dream. 5 wins has them leading the division right now. Better coaching wins Cards, Lions, Jets, Bears, second Dallas game, and Eagles. That’s 6 extra wins.
5 additional wins? At this rate that would be spread out over 2 additional seasons.
In a scenario like that, the GM has to be perfect to turn things around. But what Gettleman did was many things people wanted. He tore down the roster. He got rid of malcontents. He drafted a QB to replace Eli. This is what people asked for and now they are screaming, "But he didn't do it right!!" and I'm not convinced that is true. Like mentioned above, John Lynch looked like an idiot his first couple of seasons, and he also has the highest cap allocation to the RB position - something that is universally regarded as being a major pock mark on the chance to win.
Gettleman has presumably delivered our replacement QB and a stud RB. That alone should buy him time to finish the work
As usual, you conveniently leave at the catastrophic mistakes.
Gettleman was complicit in aiding and abetting the strategy to keep Eli. And many of us saw right through that as detrimental to the course correction. That led to a ripple effect that has accelerated the spiral downward:
-- re-signing OBJ so Eli had his ace WR
-- drafting a RB at #2
-- rebuilding an OL with the wrong investments
-- drafting a 4th round QB and mismanaging his development
-- keeping Eli for a second year
-- likely being hamstrung in 2019 from making
further investments because of Eli's $18M still on the
books
And, as to be expected, you have the Lynch narrative wrong. As I wrote about earlier above, the 9ers/York signed Shanahan and Lynch to six year deals. That was very unusual in length. But that was because they admitted up from there were in rebuild mode; and they asked their fans to be respectful and understand their "3 Ps" - the process, patient, and partnership - in that rebuild effort.
There was no bullsh-t being tossed around that they were competing for the playoffs...So comparing Gettleman to Lynch is way off.
The talent on the roster is good enough right now to be winning the division.
This may be the quote of the year.
What it is however, is one of the worst coached Giants football teams EVER. The head coach is an unmitigated disaster that has failed in nearly every major category the job entails. Ill conceived game plans. Failure to adapt to what is occurring on the field. Mediocre player development. Horrific clock management, use of timeouts and challenges. Harebrained roster decisions like playing haley and halapio all year when they are among the worst players in the entire NFL.
Incredibly his choice for DC may be an even worse coach than he is. I've watched football as an avid fan for many years. I've never seen so many completely blown assignments by one defense. It's numerous plays every single week. It's the worst example of on field communication I've ever seen. I mean that...EVER.
And they're dealing with all this while navigating through the growing pains of starting a rookie QB for most of the season.
I know to some of you this seems like Armageddon but it's not as bad as you think it is. In 1983 the Giants suffered through a debacle of a 3-13-1 season. What followed was a quick turnaround where we went 9-7 followed by 10-6 including a playoff win. In just the third season since that nightmare three win season we won the all time franchise record 17 games en route to hoisting our first Lombardi Trophy EVER. There was talent on that 1983 roster that struggled so much but a lot of it was young and inexperienced. If there wasn't we couldn't have won Superbowl XXI.
You really are a vile and loathsome person. If it wasn't such an act of brilliant misdirection well beyond the capabilities of the regime running the Giants to use such an unlikable cozener such as you, I would suspect you of having a closet full of Giants freebies. (Since I am sure you don't know what a cozener is: it is a person who is a cheat, liar, and twister of facts, perfect description of you)
First, let me ask you, are really sure you want to align yourself with that particular poster... He seems to be getting slammed pretty hard for some of his ideas. Do you really share them? Really?
Second, you complained about me revisiting the Halapio thread... And here you are revisiting old threads as well. That makes you a hypocrite as well. Speaking of the Halapio thread, you called smug, arrogant and a bunch of other vile things on that thread for pointing out that Halapio makes mental mistakes particularly on stunts that come into his space. An observation that Sy himself made later in the season. You said on that thread that if you were wrong that you would gladly piss out of your skull... I am waiting to see that, since clearly you were wrong. In lieu of that I will accept a humble apology. But I know you are too smug and arrogant to ever do that.
Also, I noticed you never responded to me on the other thread where you brought this up... You know where I posted a few articles talking about how to succeed running a fan based business in the digital age. Basically they stress 2 things...
1. That 5% of fans drives 80% or more of revenues (obviously in the case of the NFL TV revenues are paramount, so lets limit this to merchandising).
2. How important it is to directly engage with fans, that the number and scale of these interaction is critical to growing the brand.
I also pointed out that what I said was that it would be cheap and easy for the team to go on social media sites (including fan message boards) and have an intern spend a little time
1. Prepare a few summaries of fan feelings and reactions for the top management.
2. Put their message out on various media outlets.
Never did I say that there was a large scale initiative.
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=591518&show_all=1#14711744
https://www.strategy-business.com/article/How-to-Make-Entertainment-and-Media-Businesses-Fan-tastic?gko=977b5
https://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/how-to-turn-fans-engaged-superfans/
Participate in Conversations
Your fan adds their voice to your marketing through actions like comments or direct emails. The scale and frequency of the dialogue matters, but any dialogue at all is a sign of deeper engagement.
Also you made your response to me on the angry voice thread...
In comment 14711703 FatMan in Charlotte said:
I love the logic of Ace.
The pessimistic voices are balanced but the positive voices are shills hired by the team!!
Perfectly logical!!
You are angry voice number 1. I replied and asked you some questions you never answered
Oh and you're other MO is when you can't attack the post with anything of merit... Attack the poster with some made up twisted crap... Twist the facts, scream louder, use foul language and lots of exclamation points. That is all you know how to do. But you are very good at it, even though it amounts to nothing.
Let me ask you a few questions. Did you post anything of substance? How many exclamation points did my post have? How many exclamation points did your reply to me have with about 1/10 the number of words?
FYI: my post had 0 exclamation points.
Also how often do you resort to cussing and name calling posters rather than discussing anything of merit?
How often do I cuss?
How often do I make posts supported by some substantial 3rd party evidence? That is how you post things of merit!
You call me smug and arrogant, I think you are projecting.
I almost alyas post supporting evidence to whatever I am saying. In doing so, I post with a certain amount of confidence. There is a huge difference between confidence because you know you have evidence, vs. being smug and arrogant. You just don't like what I post because it often contradicts your unsupported and mostly vacuous opinions.
Unfortunately you are projecting that the young players will eventually be proven talents. Pretty much none of them are proven talents right now. There are question marks next to all of them. Many will never improve to the point of answering those questions. Its just the way the NFL is.
It would be more accurate to say that the roster is young and unproven. There is hope for a number of them, and your opinion is that it's worth holding staying with the status quo (at least in the FO) to see if they make progress.
It is an equally valid opinion that these same players have not progressed to the degree that you can have confidence that more picks by the same FO will produce plus results.
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In comment 14715277 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14715266 Go Terps said:
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I liked the hire!
If I want him gone it's because his performance has been catastrophic.
You were also vocal about getting rid of JPP and all of the overpaid under performing vets — which he did.
Gettleman could hire Rhule as HC and 3 analytics guru’s to hold his dick while he took a piss and you’d still find a way to shit on the moves.
He completely failed to reassemble the team. Totally and utterly. The FA signings have been a disaster. The Barkley pick was a disaster. The QB transition was delayed and clumsily achieved, costing a lot of cap space unnecessarily.
He tore up a bad team. That was his service. He then built a worse team.
Two wasted years.
Gettleman’s biggest failure was hiring the wrong coach. The talent on the roster is good enough right now to be winning the division.
Ultimately that falls on Gettleman but I’m willing to give him another crack at it given the fact that the candidates who got hired that year were pretty weak across the board. Gettleman commented in an interview soon after he got hired that he preferred a defensive minded HC. That leads me to believe that he either settled on Shurmur or ownership leaned in that direction, or a combination of both.
This year looks to be a much stronger class of candidates. Rivera would be a fine hire and is much more aligned philosophically with Gettleman than Shurmur is or ever will be.
I know it’s fashionable to shit on the organization right now but I’m willing to ride this out another year before turning to the dark side.
Wait. You seriously think this current NYG roster, at optimal health is good enough to win this division?
😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
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In comment 14715174 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14714927 MookGiants said:
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what has Gettleman done to earn a 3rd season? And having a GM who is year to year if the team doesnt perform is a disaster waiting to happen when you hire a new coach. If they keep Gettleman and he gets fired next year you either force the existing coach on a new GM which is an awful idea or you fire another coach after just 1 year, also a bad look.
It doesn't make sense to fire Shurmur and not Gettleman on any level. He hasn't done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt and his free agent deals have been a disaster, last thing we should want is a guy that knows he needs to win next year spending a ton of money this off-season.
What did John Lynch do to earn a 3rd season?
The 49ers didn’t become 11-2 overnight. They would have been better than 4-12 last year if Garrapolo hadn’t gotten hurt and they didn’t have to start Mullen’s and Beathard.
The mantra is it’s all about W-L from GoTerps and his merry band of dick riders.
If Gettleman should be fired based on the team’s record during his tenure then Lynch should’ve been fired as well.
Another poster made an interesting post about all of the suspect moves Lynch has made during his tenure — and how he was under fire until the team started winning this year. BBI would explode if Gettleman did some of the shit Lynch has done.
Merry band of dick riders?
And yet here we are with you defending the competence of a man you've never met.
What it is however, is one of the worst coached Giants football teams EVER. The head coach is an unmitigated disaster that has failed in nearly every major category the job entails. Ill conceived game plans. Failure to adapt to what is occurring on the field. Mediocre player development. Horrific clock management, use of timeouts and challenges. Harebrained roster decisions like playing haley and halapio all year when they are among the worst players in the entire NFL.
Incredibly his choice for DC may be an even worse coach than he is. I've watched football as an avid fan for many years. I've never seen so many completely blown assignments by one defense. It's numerous plays every single week. It's the worst example of on field communication I've ever seen. I mean that...EVER.
And they're dealing with all this while navigating through the growing pains of starting a rookie QB for most of the season.
I know to some of you this seems like Armageddon but it's not as bad as you think it is. In 1983 the Giants suffered through a debacle of a 3-13-1 season. What followed was a quick turnaround where we went 9-7 followed by 10-6 including a playoff win. In just the third season since that nightmare three win season we won the all time franchise record 17 games en route to hoisting our first Lombardi Trophy EVER. There was talent on that 1983 roster that struggled so much but a lot of it was young and inexperienced. If there wasn't we couldn't have won Superbowl XXI.
Good post.
People here under estimate the impact coaching has on the results of a NFL team. I’d argue coaching has more of an impact on W-L in the NFL than any other major sport.
This was mentioned on another thread and worth mentioning here. “Good players can’t overcome bad coaching” — BB. Highly recommend the HBO show with Saban and BB. There’s no doubt in my mind a quality HC would have this team competing for the division right now.
The roster is a work in progress but the talent has flashed. I see a foundation of quality players that needs a little help at some key spots.
This division is wide open moving forward. From a roster perspective, I’d much rather have the Giants current group and cap situation moving forward than anyone else in the division.
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So I can only say I hope Sean is right. Major changes is needed.
It really is strange that you always need to let us know you're getting hammered regularly.
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It's really not. It's a very young roster with talent at a lot of positions. There is a core to build around. There are also deficiencies in some key positions.
What it is however, is one of the worst coached Giants football teams EVER. The head coach is an unmitigated disaster that has failed in nearly every major category the job entails. Ill conceived game plans. Failure to adapt to what is occurring on the field. Mediocre player development. Horrific clock management, use of timeouts and challenges. Harebrained roster decisions like playing haley and halapio all year when they are among the worst players in the entire NFL.
Incredibly his choice for DC may be an even worse coach than he is. I've watched football as an avid fan for many years. I've never seen so many completely blown assignments by one defense. It's numerous plays every single week. It's the worst example of on field communication I've ever seen. I mean that...EVER.
And they're dealing with all this while navigating through the growing pains of starting a rookie QB for most of the season.
I know to some of you this seems like Armageddon but it's not as bad as you think it is. In 1983 the Giants suffered through a debacle of a 3-13-1 season. What followed was a quick turnaround where we went 9-7 followed by 10-6 including a playoff win. In just the third season since that nightmare three win season we won the all time franchise record 17 games en route to hoisting our first Lombardi Trophy EVER. There was talent on that 1983 roster that struggled so much but a lot of it was young and inexperienced. If there wasn't we couldn't have won Superbowl XXI.
Good post.
People here under estimate the impact coaching has on the results of a NFL team. I’d argue coaching has more of an impact on W-L in the NFL than any other major sport.
This was mentioned on another thread and worth mentioning here. “Good players can’t overcome bad coaching” — BB. Highly recommend the HBO show with Saban and BB. There’s no doubt in my mind a quality HC would have this team competing for the division right now.
The roster is a work in progress but the talent has flashed. I see a foundation of quality players that needs a little help at some key spots.
This division is wide open moving forward. From a roster perspective, I’d much rather have the Giants current group and cap situation moving forward than anyone else in the division.
So you’re saying you think the NYG have a better situation right now for success over the next say 5 years than Dallas or even Philadelphia? I don’t think there is a sane person associated with the NFL who would agree with you, but OK.
The division is comically bad this year and that's near-universally recognized. The division "leaders" are a cowboys team that only knows underachieving and plays down to it's competition, and a chronically injured eagles team getting by on the strength of it's coaching.
It's setting a low bar in an attempt to support an argument.
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Ironically Gettleman has done many of the things they cried for — finding Eli’s replacement, getting rid of Odell, and tearing the whole team down.
The reality is Gettleman had to be perfect in FA and the draft to turn this around in year 2. There was nothing to build around when he got here.
He wasn’t perfect. He got the HC wrong in a weak class. He’s had a bunch of FA misses. But he’s had some really good drafts, cleaned up the cap, and found the QB of the future.
I’m pro DG at the moment but I’m reserving judgment until this off-season plays out. He has to get the HC right. He has to make the right moves in FA this year and he has to have another good draft. I expect him to be a man of his word and fix the trenches. This may sound like a big ask but the opportunity will be there this year to accomplish most if not all of these tasks.
There is not an appreciation for how poor the roster was when Gettleman took it over and the depth of the rebuild that has to happen. We went almost 5 full seasons of bare drafts and an overpay in 2016 for FA that crippled the cap.
In a scenario like that, the GM has to be perfect to turn things around. But what Gettleman did was many things people wanted. He tore down the roster. He got rid of malcontents. He drafted a QB to replace Eli. This is what people asked for and now they are screaming, "But he didn't do it right!!" and I'm not convinced that is true. Like mentioned above, John Lynch looked like an idiot his first couple of seasons, and he also has the highest cap allocation to the RB position - something that is universally regarded as being a major pock mark on the chance to win.
Gettleman has presumably delivered our replacement QB and a stud RB. That alone should buy him time to finish the work
It was good ol' Dave who decided that the way to rebuild was to get rid of everyone so he had even more holes to fill. So, let's not poor Dave about the bad roster he took over. He had a hand in creating this 2-11 team and did so purposefully.
While turning the roster into that of an expansion team is a bizarre and debatable method of re-building, what is done is done and the question is whether Dave G is the guy who can acquire sufficient players quickly enough to have a contender.
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all 53 members of this team suck?
This roster has good players. Why is literally no one playing up to their potential? Can anyone name 1 player on this team that we're getting the most out of? An average player whose a perfect scheme fit that overproduces?
I mean the answer for me is literally zero. No one. Not 1 out of 53.
We all agree the coaching sucks right?
So how can we accurately decipher whose playing terribly because of the coaching compared to a guy who simply sucks? Its gotta be a mixture of both, but i'd say many fall in the former category.
And thats arguably the worst position to be in, not really knowing what we have in a lot of these guys.
Who hired Shurmur? Dave or John?
If Dave Gettleman gets fired, my hunch is he really vouched hard for Shurmur. If he stays, i think Mara pushed for Pat. Just a hunch though.
Gettleman recommended Shurmur and Mara rubber stamped it.
Everyone in that front office had a singular goal - build a team, through players and coaches, to give Eli a chance for a grand send off. That's why Mara hired Accorsi to hire Gettleman who hired Shurmur. Do you think when they all came out in 2018 declaring their love for Eli - based on some apparent film study - that that was just coincidence?
I'm okay with the position that this coaching staff is abysmal. I'm not okay, however, assuming the players Gettleman drafted are really good and are simply victims of that poor coaching. That's an easy for the Gettleman Brigade...
I hear you on the first part - however, in the second part, just b/c Gettleman did it doesn't automatically make it bad either.
You can't throw the baby out with the bath water.
There are more serviceable players on this roster than the one he inherited.
Look at the year to year. In 2016, they had 11 million in cap space. In 2017, with a ton of players on injured reserve, they had little cap room. In 2018, due to Dave Gettleman's roster purges, the giants had $43 million dollars in dead cap In 2019, we are at $40.9 million dollars in dead cap. These are self-inflected wounds he does not get a pass for.
In this 4 year window, the NFL cap has grown from 167 million to 188 million, and the Giants have not allowed themselves to compete with the rest of the league.
The offense needs a few linemen, other than that were in good shape. Not stating i believe having good skill guys is more important, i don't. I just believe its close to being an excellent offense. I've thought this before but they never seem to fill out 5/5. Time will tell.
I like the defensive line, needs a stud pass rusher. Second level is absolutely devoid of talent and who knows how Connelly will bounce back. Secondary is young so i'm giving everyone time. Some here think Jabrill sucks, i thought he played well considering how bad Bethea is.
Again, are we bringing in a stud coach? He wants his own guy? Ok then Gettleman can go.
But you get out of messes like this by drafting well and Dave Gettleman potentially found 5 starters in this past draft. 5. I'm not gun ho on throwing a guy to the curb who has shown he can draft.
The 81 team made the playoffs and the 82 was in contention until the strike. The 83 team was hit hard with injuries and with a rookie HC. There was no FA, so a team could keep players around forever if it wished and build. Finally, George Young was in charge and the Maras were required to keep hands off.
We are dealing here with meddlesome owners, a GM of iffy talents, an incompetent boob as a HC and a roster that was deliberately deconstructed in an era where your good players are free to leave for more winning pastures. How long would it have taken that 83 team to make the SB if Simms, Carpenter, Haynes, Martin, Carson etc had been traded off the team or let go after the 82 season because Young decided to tear down the roster and rebuild or Carson, Haynes, Martin and Simms decided to leave for greener pastures. I don't see this situation at all similar to 1983.
It doesn't make sense to fire Shurmur and not Gettleman on any level. He hasn't done anything to deserve the benefit of the doubt and his free agent deals have been a disaster, last thing we should want is a guy that knows he needs to win next year spending a ton of money this off-season.
I am not anti-Gettleman, but this makes sense.
.McL. : 2:30 am : link : reply
You really are a vile and loathsome person. If it wasn't such an act of brilliant misdirection well beyond the capabilities of the regime running the Giants to use such an unlikable cozener such as you, I would suspect you of having a closet full of Giants freebies. (Since I am sure you don't know what a cozener is: it is a person who is a cheat, liar, and twister of facts, perfect description of you)
I'm such a vile and loathsome person that you are going to take the time to put a half page response to that nobody is going to take the time to fucking read, nor cares to.
Why don't you just ignore me? Or maybe you'll put together a full page response referencing back to posts that don't pertain to the discussion. Why don't you add in a bar graph too? That usually keeps the audience's attention....
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Than the day DG started “kicking ass” 2 years ago. Both he and the Shurminator need to be shown the door on Black Monday. If Dave stays and predictably hires a desperate to work again Ron Rivera, it’s another colossal mistake by this ownership.
You’re a fool if you really believe this.
The roster part?
Gentleman inherited a team with 2 all pro players, and a handful of guys who had been to pro bowls in the 2 years prior to that and the giants have been getting worse and worse.
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.McL. : 2:30 am : link : reply
You really are a vile and loathsome person. If it wasn't such an act of brilliant misdirection well beyond the capabilities of the regime running the Giants to use such an unlikable cozener such as you, I would suspect you of having a closet full of Giants freebies. (Since I am sure you don't know what a cozener is: it is a person who is a cheat, liar, and twister of facts, perfect description of you)
I'm such a vile and loathsome person that you are going to take the time to put a half page response to that nobody is going to take the time to fucking read, nor cares to.
Why don't you just ignore me? Or maybe you'll put together a full page response referencing back to posts that don't pertain to the discussion. Why don't you add in a bar graph too? That usually keeps the audience's attention....
Yes... I am a treasure.
Stop avoiding my questions... ACE.
Am I supposed to re-visit the Halapio shit every thread? Am I supposed to accept that shills are planted on BBI because you think so? What questions, Professor??
With every one of your posts that go unread because of sheer volume of words and lack of focus by referring to past threads and multiple links, I really want to just sit you down and have a Planes, Trains and Automobile conversation with you.
Neal Page to Dell: " And by the way, you know, when, when you're telling these little stories, here's a good idea. Have a point. It makes it so much more interesting for the listener!"
Am I supposed to re-visit the Halapio shit every thread? Am I supposed to accept that shills are planted on BBI because you think so? What questions, Professor??
With every one of your posts that go unread because of sheer volume of words and lack of focus by referring to past threads and multiple links, I really want to just sit you down and have a Planes, Trains and Automobile conversation with you.
Neal Page to Dell: " And by the way, you know, when, when you're telling these little stories, here's a good idea. Have a point. It makes it so much more interesting for the listener!"
With you, your duchery knows no bounds, so there are many points.
Since you have shown your hypocritical side by continually referencing old threads, lets work with the Halapio thread for now. You called me a bunch of vile things on that thread, and said if you were wrong you would gladly piss out of your skull. Sy confirmed it, you were wrong.
Start pissing out of your skull... Buddy!
You stated that Halapio didn't have the mental acuity to play the position. Sy confirmed his mental acuity??
Do you desperately seek affirmation, Captain?
Start pissing out of you skull, Buddy.
Way to not be hypocritical, Ace!
Way to not be hypocritical, Ace!
You said you would do it. I didn't come up with those words myself... They are yours.
Truth hurts.
There was no bullsh-t being tossed around that they were competing for the playoffs...So comparing Gettleman to Lynch is way off.
Wow, what a novel concept: a front office that doesn't act cowed by the fanbase and media and is proactive getting the messaging out about their rebuild.
Instead, we have to listen to people say that the Giants had no choice but to try and compete in 2018 or the fans would riot or something.