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Giants sign Solder (revisited)

jlukes : 12/12/2019 9:03 am
lots of revisionist history happening around here lately. How quickly we forget...
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=565909&show_all=1 - ( New Window )
Eric was all over this  
jlukes : 12/12/2019 9:06 am : link






Quote:
...
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/14/2018 10:55 am : link
Solid player but he has had issues in pass protection too. He's overrated in free agency because he's the best tackle in a bad market.


Quote:
Acid
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/14/2018 11:29 am : link
We're not out of options. I hope this works out, but that's a ridiculous contract for a guy who is a "solid" left tackle.

The other option is you don't pay that contract, move on from Eli, and rebuild the team.

This whole thing feels like a half-ass approach again.

We're starting to feel like the Knicks.
What an awful contract  
Jints in Carolina : 12/12/2019 9:13 am : link
.
The positive reactions were justified  
BillT : 12/12/2019 9:14 am : link
If Solder had been the player he was with NE we would still be ok with it. But he’s mostly been terrible so the signing sucked.
Doesn't really matter if fans  
Metnut : 12/12/2019 9:15 am : link
thought the deal was a good idea at the time or not. We're not paid a gigantic salary to have a career of making these decisions right. Gettleman is. And he blew it.
They didn't get Norwell, and panic-pivoted to Solder.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/12/2019 9:18 am : link
.
And Norwell ended up sucking too, didn't he?  
Britt in VA : 12/12/2019 9:18 am : link
?
Yup, he's looking like a one-year wonder.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/12/2019 9:21 am : link
.
I think  
mdthedream : 12/12/2019 9:23 am : link
what really hurt him was the surgery he had right before training camp. Hopefully he bounces back if he is needed.
RE: Doesn't really matter if fans  
Thankyoueli : 12/12/2019 9:27 am : link
In comment 14715518 Metnut said:
Quote:
thought the deal was a good idea at the time or not. We're not paid a gigantic salary to have a career of making these decisions right. Gettleman is. And he blew it.


To be fair no GM bats .1000, I didnt like the signing but I understood the desperation for a LT.

And for those who think it was just to try and get one more run out of Eli (which they will say was an egregious misjudgment of where this team was at), I think Dave came in knowing he was gonna draft a QB sooner than later and didnt want to have a young QB with no blindside protection. That's what we ended up with anyway but at least it wasnt for lack of effort. Not like theres any great or even particularly good LTs out there that we missed on since signing Solder.

Cut Solder this year. Save the 6m, eat the 13m. Take another swing in the draft or FA and in the end it's really not that huge of a loss overall. Are we really gonna miss the 13m THAT badly in a year where we should have about 100m in cap room (after cutting players that clearly need to be cut). We probably wont even be able to spend all that money, people dont realize just how far 100m in cap goes considering the way NFL contracts are structured (typically with an initial cap hit lower than the AAV).
RE: Eric was all over this  
JerryNicklebag : 12/12/2019 9:36 am : link
In comment 14715496 jlukes said:
Quote:








Quote:


...
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/14/2018 10:55 am : link
Solid player but he has had issues in pass protection too. He's overrated in free agency because he's the best tackle in a bad market.





Quote:


Acid
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/14/2018 11:29 am : link
We're not out of options. I hope this works out, but that's a ridiculous contract for a guy who is a "solid" left tackle.

The other option is you don't pay that contract, move on from Eli, and rebuild the team.

This whole thing feels like a half-ass approach again.

We're starting to feel like the Knicks.



"The other option is you don't pay that contract, move on from Eli, and rebuild the team."

^^^^^^ That is what should have happened. It was time then to let E move on, hell, we probably still could have traded him for at least something at that point.

Sentimental feelings got in the way...
It is unfortunate  
Rong5611 : 12/12/2019 9:36 am : link
At the time, we were desperate for a an average LT. We overpaid Solder, without a doubt. The thought of Flowers starting again at LT was a non-starter. We thought we were getting someone who at least had average ability. Flowers, as we all know, was flat out awful and didn't work to get any better.

But, I don't think anyone thought Solder would be this bad. Injuries definitely have played a role. Daniel Jones hasn't developed a quicker release which doesn't help. Solder looks inept though. It sucks.

I don't think there's any way they can cut him. It would take a huge hunk out of available cap for next year. The Giants need players and need that money to help fill some holes. Might as well keep him, even if he's a swing tackle/guard.

One more year.
RE: RE: Eric was all over this  
Rong5611 : 12/12/2019 9:37 am : link
In hindsight, yes. I agree.

In comment 14715560 JerryNicklebag said:
Quote:
In comment 14715496 jlukes said:


Quote:










Quote:


...
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/14/2018 10:55 am : link
Solid player but he has had issues in pass protection too. He's overrated in free agency because he's the best tackle in a bad market.





Quote:


Acid
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/14/2018 11:29 am : link
We're not out of options. I hope this works out, but that's a ridiculous contract for a guy who is a "solid" left tackle.

The other option is you don't pay that contract, move on from Eli, and rebuild the team.

This whole thing feels like a half-ass approach again.

We're starting to feel like the Knicks.





"The other option is you don't pay that contract, move on from Eli, and rebuild the team."

^^^^^^ That is what should have happened. It was time then to let E move on, hell, we probably still could have traded him for at least something at that point.

Sentimental feelings got in the way...
Lots of enthusiasm in March....  
The_Boss : 12/12/2019 9:38 am : link
And then they started playing games in September when the tune permanently changed....
Fun thread  
Default : 12/12/2019 9:43 am : link
7-22 later the loudest voices still think this is a stable organization on the right track...
Eric...  
bw in dc : 12/12/2019 9:47 am : link
was very clairvoyant in that thread, about Solder, and absolutely nailed where the Giants were and where they were going.

And what a treasure it was seeing the EFC boys basically singing “Happy Days Are Here Again!” and how Eli was going to rise again like a Phoenix...
It was a tough spot to walk into...  
Ryan : 12/12/2019 9:47 am : link
...with the OL because Pugh and Richburg were FA's and Flowers was a turd. I think the only other linemen that were even under contract were Evan Brown and John Jerry and the '18 OT class was considered sub-par to be kind (only 5 T's taken in the the first 2 rounds and only Kolton Miller is currently a consistent starting LT though he was horrible as a rookie).

Certainly overpaid but I'd be absolutely shocked if we don't hear after the season his ankle injury isn't something far worse than what's let on. Common sense tells you he can't be this bad. He has plays each week that look like he can't feel his foot. Watch the second sack Curry had on Monday...he basically just falls over trying to pick him up off the TE chip.
RE: And Norwell ended up sucking too, didn't he?  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/12/2019 9:54 am : link
In comment 14715527 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
?

Excellent point. Both of Mr. Hawg Mawllies top two OL targets that offseason turned out to be dogshit. He sure knows how to pick 'em.
He needs to be released  
JoeyBigBlue : 12/12/2019 9:54 am : link
He’s been so bad this year, that I don’t think switching to RT will help him. I rather eat the 13 mill and get back the 6.5 million next year. 6.5 million for a bench player is too much.
i can't remember what I said but, regardless, you  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 12/12/2019 10:03 am : link
might think a signing was good, at the beginning, but over course of time and seeing the individual play that you come to a different conclusion. So the "How quickly we forget" is disingenuous.

I can recall thinking signing Vernon was a good deal yet his play on the field and his play in Cleveland leaves a lot to be desired. As many here have pointed out numerous times, this is the danger of relying on FA to fix your problems. Hence, the need to draft well...FA should only be used to fill in a hole that you couldn't otherwise.

We were put in this hell by continuous bad drafting by the former GM and trying to fix that with bad FA contracts. And Eric is right...a lot of these measures have been half assed, Band-Aid measures instead of starting the rebuild years ago. And I admit it, I got fooled also. I thought our OL would be significantly better with the addition of Zeitler but it isn't. I truly thought this was a potential playoff team at the beginning of the year. Obviously, I see the error of my ways now.

Let's hope Tisch is right and there is an honest evaluation of this team once the season is over and that the tough decisions that need to be made are made. DG said you can compete when you are rebuilding, I suspect he sold Mara on that. Well, that did not work out, did it? And DG said Shurmur was an adult...well, in football terms, as a head coach, he was wrong on that also. Shurmur is not an adult...his team's performance confirms that on a much larger scale than McAdoo.

I reiterate my position again...the problems with this organization are at the top...until that is fixed we will continue to fail.
Hindsight proving DG is horrible at free agency.  
penkap75 : 12/12/2019 10:39 am : link
..
RE: Fun thread  
djm : 12/12/2019 10:50 am : link
In comment 14715578 Default said:
Quote:
7-22 later the loudest voices still think this is a stable organization on the right track...


Oh pipe down. No one says that.
I just want to ask  
allstarjim : 12/12/2019 11:16 am : link
If we didn't sign Solder, who exactly was going to play LT? Serious question.

100% it would be a disaster at LT and all of you would be answering Gettleman for no addressing the position properly.
And oh yeah  
allstarjim : 12/12/2019 11:16 am : link
He's still better than Flowers.
Wow, well done Eric.  
Mike in Long Beach : 12/12/2019 11:26 am : link
Calling us the Knicks at a time when (basically) everyone else was over-the-moon happy was not an easy thing to say knowing you'd be in the minority. Kudos.
....  
BleedBlue : 12/12/2019 11:32 am : link
we ALL know he is playing bad and we all want to kill him for it and kill DG for signing him...but at the time the position was BARE. flowers was a joke, our entire OL was bad, we had no stabilizing force.

most people were like shit its a panic signing, but most felt it was necessary. i wasnt in love with solder, but i knew we needed SOME KIND of help especially on the left side and that was the quickest way to get it. sucks he regressed. maybe a move to the right side?
RE: I just want to ask  
BigBlueinChicago : 12/12/2019 12:52 pm : link
In comment 14715778 allstarjim said:
Quote:
If we didn't sign Solder, who exactly was going to play LT? Serious question.

100% it would be a disaster at LT and all of you would be answering Gettleman for no addressing the position properly.


They had 3 options.

1. Sign Solder and pay the supply and demand rate. Buyer beware.

2. Find his replacement via the NFL Draft.

3. Do some actual research and scour the league for a replacement as the Patriots did when they lost Solder and traded draft picks for Trent Brown.

Getteman after signing Solder:

Quote:
"For us, I know Eli is going to sleep a little bit better. And frankly, we're all going to sleep a little bit better."


Oops. I guess not.
RE: I just want to ask  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/12/2019 1:20 pm : link
In comment 14715778 allstarjim said:
Quote:
If we didn't sign Solder, who exactly was going to play LT? Serious question.

100% it would be a disaster at LT and all of you would be answering Gettleman for no addressing the position properly.

That's a question you should ask Gettleman. As a reminder, Norwell was his top FA OL target that offseason, which would have precluded Solder. Had Gettleman signed Norwell as he intended, presumably he had an answer to "who exactly was going to play LT?"

I don't know why some keep putting this back on posters to answer when it's clear that DG must have had some other option(s) for OLT in mind.
RE: I just want to ask  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/12/2019 1:40 pm : link
In comment 14715778 allstarjim said:
Quote:
If we didn't sign Solder, who exactly was going to play LT? Serious question.

100% it would be a disaster at LT and all of you would be answering Gettleman for no addressing the position properly.


And we'd have all the money we didnt pay Solder hopefully going to actually fix other positions, instead of on a LT who isn't much better than the guy he replaced.

Maybe we'd even have a Center or a Linebacker.
RE: I just want to ask  
giantstock : 12/13/2019 4:40 am : link
In comment 14715778 allstarjim said:
Quote:
If we didn't sign Solder, who exactly was going to play LT? Serious question.

100% it would be a disaster at LT and all of you would be answering Gettleman for no addressing the position properly.


Serious question-- what is the implications of a "disaster" when you're team is going to suck anyways? You think one player on the OL is going to turn around a team that basically needed FIVE OL in 2018?

Anyway imo you are asking the wrong question. It wasn't "ONE" player you should be seeking. When you knew you were going to be taking a RB with the 2nd pick and rolling out the immobile Eli again -- you don't look to build your OL through ONE player. The "DISASTER" is the exact thing DG did- he took an aging player who can't help there rebuild for the longer-term-future who was never all pro anyways and paid him obscene money. Your team was already awful -- and you were obviously going to suck. You didn't NEED to do this.

Instead the question you should've asked is "How many decent players that are young can I get across the OL as quick as possible to help SB and Eli?" As a result you should've realized Omameh wasn’t worth shit and don't waste anything on Stewart.

Thus you could've gone after Hubbard and Fulton. More than likely Hubbard would've been a failure at LT but you could've then moved him to guard. While no one would expect he would’ve been better than Solder but the combination of Hubbard and Fulton would've been better than what you paid for solder, Omameh and Stewart you could've gotten two young productive linemen. Then you could've drafted either Braden Smith or Brian O’Neil. Try one of them out. At this point in 2018 you'd have had 3 young OLine.

And we were going to be a disaster in 2018 anyways. Thus the desperate move for Solder was for what? We were a disaster last year and this year. One older LT wasn't going to turn that around. When you need FIVE guys on the OL- one freaking LT who was never all-pro anyways isn’t going to do shit. The team was still projected to be a disaster.

Just a real stupid move by DG.
In the wake of the news that Solder's son is undergoing a  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/13/2019 4:51 am : link
new round of chemo, this is a real classy thread.

The worst of BBI.
RE: In the wake of the news that Solder's son is undergoing a  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/13/2019 7:30 am : link
In comment 14716926 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
new round of chemo, this is a real classy thread.

The worst of BBI.


Personal and professional are two separate things. He hasn't been a good profession football player here for the duration of his contract and also he can be going through issues in his personal life. Both things can exist in the same world.
RE: In the wake of the news that Solder's son is undergoing a  
Enzo : 12/13/2019 7:51 am : link
In comment 14716926 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
new round of chemo, this is a real classy thread.

The worst of BBI.

what a bunch of sanctimonious bullshit.
Lots of swing n' miss views on Solder in that thread from posters  
Jimmy Googs : 12/13/2019 8:21 am : link
and a few others that weren't drinking the cool-aid that Gettleman was serving.

I particularly like the exchange from this guy sundayatone who actually hits the nail on the head as to Solder being added signaling Eli being kept in his seat which will delay the fixing of the Giants. And the usual chucklehead defenders running in and calling him a troll...



Quote:
RE: Hey look..
sundayatone : 3/14/2018 11:38 am : link
In comment 13864578 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the one-trick pony chimed in on what topic?? Eli Manning of course!

Fucking troll.

Quote:

with this move we are
sundayatone : 11:33 am : link : reply
stuck with manning for another year maybe two. bad move.

Are we going to be entertained with more "cult of eli" responses now???


elis play will hold the off back,hope i am wrong but i doubt it chubby.

RE: RE: And Norwell ended up sucking too, didn't he?  
Jimmy Googs : 12/13/2019 8:25 am : link
In comment 14715603 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14715527 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


?


Excellent point. Both of Mr. Hawg Mawllies top two OL targets that offseason turned out to be dogshit. He sure knows how to pick 'em.


I think Norwell was a bit disappointing/avg on the Jags last year but has done well this season. Not certain but watched a few Jags games this year and he was looking pretty damn good and the color commentators were giving him props.

could be different views out there but just saying...
RE: RE: I just want to ask  
Jimmy Googs : 12/13/2019 8:37 am : link
In comment 14716086 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14715778 allstarjim said:


Quote:


If we didn't sign Solder, who exactly was going to play LT? Serious question.

100% it would be a disaster at LT and all of you would be answering Gettleman for no addressing the position properly.


That's a question you should ask Gettleman. As a reminder, Norwell was his top FA OL target that offseason, which would have precluded Solder. Had Gettleman signed Norwell as he intended, presumably he had an answer to "who exactly was going to play LT?"

I don't know why some keep putting this back on posters to answer when it's clear that DG must have had some other option(s) for OLT in mind.


Posters do it to defend the faith and its quite ridiculous at this point. DG had to make his free agent splash in his shiny new office so Norwell was his first target and Solder was next in line when he lost. What a visionary team builder this guy is...huh?

My guess is if he got Norwell he goes after Isiah Wynn in the draft that year at beginning of round 2. Although he would have had to move up b/c the Patriots picked him in rd 1.

The mistake wasn't trying to improve the line. The mistake was DG not realizing he had a broken team altogether and a Qb that wasn't helping any longer. He needed to strip it all down and build it back up with a orchestrated plan of investing his $ and draft collateral as a rebuild and do it with positional value in mind.

Instead he underestimated his roster, kept Eli in place, spent a butt-load of money on a declining Solder and poorly invested his highest pick on a running back.

His "plan" was a colossal waste of time and money and has only delayed the restructuring of this franchise...
Should say "Overestimated his roster" or  
Jimmy Googs : 12/13/2019 8:42 am : link
underestimated how bad his roster was...
...  
christian : 12/13/2019 10:06 am : link
That's a pretty damn smug thread to read back.
Typically more interesting to revisit the actual commentary/opinions  
Jimmy Googs : 12/13/2019 11:22 am : link
versus just spouting off the phrase "revisionist theory" at posters...
RE: In the wake of the news that Solder's son is undergoing a  
giantstock : 12/13/2019 7:40 pm : link
In comment 14716926 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
new round of chemo, this is a real classy thread.

The worst of BBI.


It figures you would try to twist this away from football.
It was a lazy and shortsighted signing  
AcesUp : 12/13/2019 7:52 pm : link
.
I denounce and reject myself  
adamg : 12/13/2019 7:59 pm : link
In fairness, we were OL desperate. But, yeah, I was wrong to be excited.
I'm worried Conklin will be the same thing  
adamg : 12/13/2019 8:00 pm : link
.
RE: I'm worried Conklin will be the same thing  
AcesUp : 12/13/2019 8:08 pm : link
In comment 14718422 adamg said:
Quote:
.


Conklin carries the same injury history but he has been a much better player. Sy is probably on to something with Trent Williams though. I’d rather gamble on an older player that we know is a stud than the inconsistent 27 year old guy that you think can blossom. There’s a very good chance that you get 3 good seasons out of Williams, which is 3 more good seasons that you get out of most free agent LTs.
imo  
gidiefor : Mod : 12/13/2019 8:33 pm : link
the Giants had to sign Solder when they did -- If the Giants had left Eric Flowers at Left tackle -- or even worse Wheeler -- would they have been better off? no - you all would have still been beating Gettleman up for being a frikking moron -- I don't think anyone could invision what happened to this offensive line -- and I don't think Gettleman was wrong in signing the best availible Left Tackle on the market

And I ask myself -- is it coaching or talent? and the answer to me is that it has to be coaching -- this offensive line should be much, much better than it is and it has been sliding backwards -- and at times this line has shown that it is better than what it is showing
That’s nonsense gidie  
AcesUp : 12/13/2019 8:41 pm : link
It was lazy to go top of market in a bad FA year. The pats executed a 3 for 5 pick pick exchange to fill the hole, that we created by signing Solder, to get a superior player in Trent Brown. You don’t even need to look far to find a better solution at LT in the 2018 offseason.
My opinion hasn't changed  
eclipz928 : 12/13/2019 9:38 pm : link
Quote:
This was a desperation signing
eclipz928 : 3/15/2018 6:52 am : link
plain and simple. Gettleman let's Pugh out the door, whiffs on Norwell, and is left with making Nate Solder the highest paid tackle in the league to get him to come on board.

Of course we're all in favor of the Giants improving the line, with the understanding that it costs money - but this was not a savvy move. Solder may not even be a top 10 tackle in the NFL, yet they're giving him $34 mil guaranteed. Huge gamble that can really set the franchise back if it doesn't work out.
Definitely still feel this way  
eclipz928 : 12/13/2019 9:41 pm : link
Quote:
Nate Solder is now the highest paid lineman
eclipz928 : 3/15/2018 7:38 am : link
(not just among tackles) in the league.

In terms of salary he will be making over $2 million more per year than the player closest to him (currently Norwell).

He's a "good" player being paid like he's a future hall of famer. You can call me Mr. glass half empty, but if this continues to be Gettleman's approach to free agency it will not be sustainable
RE: imo  
giantstock : 12/13/2019 10:32 pm : link
In comment 14718448 gidiefor said:
Quote:
the Giants had to sign Solder when they did -- If the Giants had left Eric Flowers at Left tackle -- or even worse Wheeler -- would they have been better off? no - you all would have still been beating Gettleman up for being a frikking moron -- I don't think anyone could invision what happened to this offensive line -- and I don't think Gettleman was wrong in signing the best availible Left Tackle on the market

And I ask myself -- is it coaching or talent? and the answer to me is that it has to be coaching -- this offensive line should be much, much better than it is and it has been sliding backwards -- and at times this line has shown that it is better than what it is showing


I don't agree with anyhting you've said here. We can agree to disagree.

Everything from
1-- "we had to get him. . ."
2-- To "everyone would have gotten on DG if he did nothing."
3-- To "No one could have envisioned what could have happened to this OLINE .. ."

1.) We didn't have to get.
2.) Not "everyone" would have gotten on DG if he did little but as I've pointed out he had other options rather than sell his soul for 1 player. Those that knew it was a mistake and have proven to be right would not have.
3.) Many of us did envision that the OL would suck. Many did say DG didn't do enough to start this year with the OL and that guys like Halapio and Remmers weren't good enough. Many of didn't buy into that Hernandez would automatically be better in year 2. Many of did recognize that sometimes it tales more than a season for OLINes to gel and having guys like Remmers and Halapio do nohting for the team long term.
RE: imo  
christian : 12/13/2019 10:51 pm : link
In comment 14718448 gidiefor said:
Quote:
the Giants had to sign Solder when they did -- If the Giants had left Eric Flowers at Left tackle -- or even worse Wheeler -- would they have been better off? no - you all would have still been beating Gettleman up for being a frikking moron -- I don't think anyone could invision what happened to this offensive line -- and I don't think Gettleman was wrong in signing the best availible Left Tackle on the market

And I ask myself -- is it coaching or talent? and the answer to me is that it has to be coaching -- this offensive line should be much, much better than it is and it has been sliding backwards -- and at times this line has shown that it is better than what it is showing


Any team managed under the operating model they "have" to do anything is destined to fail.

The number of alternatives available to the Giants has been litigated to death on BBI.

The warning signs were there from the beginning as clearly expressed by many on this old thread.
RE: imo  
.McL. : 12/13/2019 11:26 pm : link
In comment 14718448 gidiefor said:
Quote:
the Giants had to sign Solder when they did -- If the Giants had left Eric Flowers at Left tackle -- or even worse Wheeler -- would they have been better off? no - you all would have still been beating Gettleman up for being a frikking moron -- I don't think anyone could invision what happened to this offensive line -- and I don't think Gettleman was wrong in signing the best availible Left Tackle on the market

And I ask myself -- is it coaching or talent? and the answer to me is that it has to be coaching -- this offensive line should be much, much better than it is and it has been sliding backwards -- and at times this line has shown that it is better than what it is showing

Nobody is saying leave Flowers at LT...

Trade for Trent Brown or some other tackle that you can project to LT.

Trade down, draft any one of several tackles that become very very good.

There are no imperatives, there are always choices. Some are good, some are bad. The Giants have been lazy for long time and not doing the work and due diligence to make the good ones.
RE: imo  
Jimmy Googs : 12/14/2019 9:20 am : link
In comment 14718448 gidiefor said:
Quote:
the Giants had to sign Solder when they did -- If the Giants had left Eric Flowers at Left tackle -- or even worse Wheeler -- would they have been better off? no - you all would have still been beating Gettleman up for being a frikking moron -- I don't think anyone could invision what happened to this offensive line -- and I don't think Gettleman was wrong in signing the best availible Left Tackle on the market

And I ask myself -- is it coaching or talent? and the answer to me is that it has to be coaching -- this offensive line should be much, much better than it is and it has been sliding backwards -- and at times this line has shown that it is better than what it is showing


I just can't get all the way there with this view gidie.

A struggling team "Had To" sign and make a declining 30 year old Solder the highest paid OL in the league...recipe for disaster. And it has been a disaster without question that we still have to deal with going forward.

Yes, OL needed to be addressed particularly at left tackle. But when one guy becomes "Had To or Bust" you gotta' stop and re-think what the hell you are doing...
RE: imo  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/14/2019 11:29 am : link
In comment 14718448 gidiefor said:
Quote:
the Giants had to sign Solder when they did -- If the Giants had left Eric Flowers at Left tackle -- or even worse Wheeler -- would they have been better off? no - you all would have still been beating Gettleman up for being a frikking moron -- I don't think anyone could invision what happened to this offensive line -- and I don't think Gettleman was wrong in signing the best availible Left Tackle on the market

And I ask myself -- is it coaching or talent? and the answer to me is that it has to be coaching -- this offensive line should be much, much better than it is and it has been sliding backwards -- and at times this line has shown that it is better than what it is showing

Others have already picked this apart with valid criticisms, but the underlying question that no DG defenders ever want to answer still remains - Solder was NOT Gettleman's first OL choice that offseason, Norwell was. So if we HAD TO sign Solder when we did, why wasn't he the top target? Did Gettleman have another plan for OLT, or was he going to trot out Flowers again? Either way, the fact alone that Norwell was his first choice in FA tells you that GETTLEMAN didn't even feel that he HAD TO sign Solder; not initially at least.

Look, I realize this is fundamentally an argument rooted in logical fallacies, but you cannot claim something as a mandate when the primary decision maker had it as a plan B from jump street. It just doesn't work that way, and that cannot be a valid defense of the move.

Gettleman signed Solder for one of two reasons: either he thought he was legitimately a solution (but not the ONLY option) to fix the OL in the absence of his top target, Norwell, in which case it's a massive whiff by our supposed Hawg Mawllie expert GM; or, he was simply out to make a fucking splash in free agency on the OL, for optics more than anything, which is an even more egregious offense, IMO.

But you cannot legitimately claim that the move was mandatory when we know that the GM himself treated it as a fallback maneuver. That has been the point all along, and no DG supporters ever seem to get there on this discussion. I don't know if that's just willful denial, or a gap in understanding the argument being brought against the supposed necessity of the signing, but there have been ZERO defenders of the Solder signing who have acknowledged that by a function of fairly linear logic, the transaction cannot be defined as a required action when the GM's own preference told you otherwise.
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