NFT: Mets sign Porcello

.

Not a bad signing at all. Just hope they didn't use all of their "funds" on these two guys and completely ignore the pen.

Are they still in on Betances?

thing you can say about Porcello and Wacha is they might keep Lugo in the pen.

that's it, the best thing. Both could bounce back to their better days, but I wouldn't count on it for eoither

Now you're going to hear the Mets NEED to trade JD Davis or Dom Smith to get rid of Jed Lowrie's contract and get under the Luxury Trax threshold.

I'd trade both, but not the way the Mets are going to do it.

cut out for him. We gotta hope he can turn at least one of Porcello or Wacha into an effective 5th starter.

I would expect he does a good job in NL if he has anything left at all.

but I agree having them both hopefully leaves Lugo in the pen.

Now sign Betances too.

I can tell you he is one of those pitchers who alternates between good and bad years. He is poised for a good year.

Rosenthal thinks the Mets are going to move a starter to unload Lowrie's contract. LOL at our rotation if they move Stroman or Matz for cash.

In comment 14715523 Metnut said:

Quote:

Rosenthal thinks the Mets are going to move a starter to unload Lowrie's contract. LOL at our rotation if they move Stroman or Matz for cash.

What a disaster. So Mets like that they did this just to trade away a guy like Matz so they can get cash relief.

Cohen can't get here soon enough.

to give up anything of worth to get out of 1 year of Lowrie.

In comment 14715533 figgy2989 said:

Quote:

In comment 14715523 Metnut said: Quote: Rosenthal thinks the Mets are going to move a starter to unload Lowrie's contract. LOL at our rotation if they move Stroman or Matz for cash. What a disaster. So Mets like that they did this just to trade away a guy like Matz so they can get cash relief. Cohen can't get here soon enough.

We'll see what happens. Rosenthal is a reliable and connected as it gets but it could just mean that the Mets might've offered something like Matz/Lowrie for a good reliever and were turned down and he's speculating based on it.

Agreed though, if they trade a starter in a salary dump move it would be really pathetic.

In comment 14715540 bigbluehoya said:

Quote:

to give up anything of worth to get out of 1 year of Lowrie.

And I know it's not my money, but we are talking about $10M. These are the same people that signed off taking on 7 more years of Cano!

In comment 14715512 Reb8thVA said:

Quote:

I can tell you he is one of those pitchers who alternates between good and bad years. He is poised for a good year.

He is going to the Mets, where careers go to die not get resurrected...

"lighting in a bottle" with people past their prime. This roster is in danger of becoming a joke again - if he has another off-season like last year and Mets finish in 3rd or worse he should lose his job. He's made one good deal and that was JD Davis; every other deal you could argue he lost.

Then you look at Wheeler - that deal looks pretty good now after the deals being signed now.

I understand it’s all about money with the Mets. But it makes no sense to dump Lowrie. They paid him all of last season for nothing. Might as well keep him around to try to get something out of him. He’s a good player.

Wacha as a 6th SP/depth guy suddenly makes sense.

Still, the two together might have got you close to Keuchel... :(

In comment 14715504 figgy2989 said:

Quote:

Not a bad signing at all. Just hope they didn't use all of their "funds" on these two guys and completely ignore the pen. Are they still in on Betances?

Wacha was the 4th worst SP in baseball in 2019. He's not a "mid rotation" SP on any decent MLB team.

people are pissed at losing Wheeler. He regressed last season and some team gave him 20M/year. He is what he is - a very talented inconsistent middle to back end rotation guy who occasionally pitches lights out. I don't want that guy for 20M a year.

In comment 14715606 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

people are pissed at losing Wheeler. He regressed last season and some team gave him 20M/year. He is what he is - a very talented inconsistent middle to back end rotation guy who occasionally pitches lights out. I don't want that guy for 20M a year.

Zack Wheeler was 15th in fWAR, 16th in FIP c'mon. He's a major loss. Middle to back end? He's been a top 20 SP in the entire sport over the past 2 seasons.

Christopher Soto
@SotoC803
·
18m
With the Rick Porcello signing #Mets payroll now stands at:

Standard Payroll: $179.8M
Luxury Tax Payroll: $206.1M

*The 2020 Luxury Tax line is $208.0M so the Mets are right up on the edge of it.*

there might be some interest around the league with Cespedes.

If the Mets eat some cash.

So, unlikely, but worth sharing.

those stats are great. Just saying Wheeler is not a huge loss. We've all watched every start of his for the last 2 years now. He's incredibly inconsistent. Just look at his starts. Every few games it is 6 runs here, 7 runs there. 4 runs, 5 runs. You can't just say a guy is good because he has a string of amazing starts over a month. Which is basically what Wheeler did in September.

SP1) .6 fWAR 5.05 FIP, 7.5 K/9, 211 innings pitched
SP2) 8.9 fWAR, 3.37 FIP, 8.91 K/9, 377.2 innings pitched
SP3) 4.2 fWAR, 4.37 FIP, 8.20 K/9, 365.2 innings pitched
SP4) 8.5 fWAR, 3.25 FIP, 9.13 K/9, 352 innings pitched
SP5) 8.1 fWAR, 3.39 FIP, 10.81 K/9, 339 innings pitched


One of these is Zack Wheeler... back end? Why are fans upset?...

does anyone think that Wheeler was one of the main reasons we won 86 games last year?

are upset with losing Wheeler. The Phillies will have the same guy that we had. And every third start he will give up 5-6 runs.

In comment 14715591 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

Still, the two together might have got you close to Keuchel... :(

Agree - I can be wrong but i don't think Keuchel's final price is going to be crazy and would have been safer than the lottery tickets signed

1) Michael Wacha
2) Zack Wheeler
3) Rick Porcello
4) Noah Syndergaard
5) Stephen Strasburg

Inconsistent is such a crock of shit. Your numbers are what they are over a 60 start sample size. Wheeler was a top 15 SP in both 2018 and 2019. Pitchers have ups and downs. His numbers were on par (or better than) Syndergaard and 245 million dollar Strasburg while the 2 they added SUCKED. Fans have every right to be upset. The Mets got worse.


And Zack Wheeler gave up 3 or less runs in 22 starts, so yeah Zack Wheeler was a MAJOR reason they won 86 games last year. He gave up 4 or less in an additional 4 starts. So 26 times he went out there and gave the Mets a chance to win.

8 times he allowed 1 or less, 14 starts 2 or less

In comment 14715624 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

are upset with losing Wheeler. The Phillies will have the same guy that we had. And every third start he will give up 5-6 runs.

Every third start? He made 30 starts and allowed 5 or more runs 5 times. Over his last 60 starts he's allowed "5+" runs 8 times.

you really trying to argue that Wheeler is as good as Strausburg? That has no basis in reality.

Joel Sherman
@Joelsherman1
· 11m
Van Wagenen has said repeatedly wouldn't trade Syndergaard this offseason. But with the cost of free agent SPs, #Mets could be getting big offers. Or Stroman. Or Matz. They could move Gsellman and Wacha becomes a swingman, but BVW indicated yesterday that Wacha would start

arguably the best pitcher in baseball allowed 5+ runs 3 times in 2019, or 2 times less than Wheeler. And nope, that wasn't the point. The point was your assertions aren't based in reality. Back end? 5-6 runs every 3rd start? I'm giving you the facts.

Wheeler 5+ runs 5 times
DeGrom 3 times
Gerrit Cole 2 times
Strasburg 4 times

I'm not even giving you fancy starts here. What you've stated is flat out false.

Wacha and Porcello are legitimate depth, and both infinitely more appealing gambles than Jason Vargas or Hector Santiago.

Swap Dom for 1 of Toronto's young catchers, add Betances, and call it an offseason until Cohen's $ comes through.

we are just gonna disagree on Wheeler. He isn't that great of a pitcher in my opinion. Just because he has awesome starts every once in awhile does not make you good.

Thor 4 times
Ryu 3 times
Bieber 5

So again, this idea Wheeler gets bombed more than other top P just isn't reality. He's a very good #3 with the upside for more. Facts.

if it meant bullpen help and a prospect.

I am not a fan of Stroman. I don't like short pitchers with mediocre velocity.

among the leaders in IP. He's been a bulldog for us recently. He's a significantly loss and a big add by the Phillies.

I think he'll be even better next year getting to pitch to Realmuto. Wish the Wilpons wern't so cheap/broke and we were able to retain him.

run Porcello gave up 5+, 10 times in 2019

Wacha 5 times (only made 24 starts)

In comment 14715648 Metnut said:

Quote:

among the leaders in IP. He's been a bulldog for us recently. He's a significantly loss and a big add by the Phillies. I think he'll be even better next year getting to pitch to Realmuto. Wish the Wilpons wern't so cheap/broke and we were able to retain him.

That's the point. Nobody is suggesting he's "great" or as good as Strasburg but he's actually closer to a "top" P than a back end arm so questioning why fans would be "upset" is strange.

In comment 14715646 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

if it meant bullpen help and a prospect. I am not a fan of Stroman. I don't like short pitchers with mediocre velocity.

Stroman's not my favorite player but trading him for less than we gave up wouldn't be great, and he's still 1 of the probably 20 or 30 starters in baseball capable of putting up an all star caliber year and coming up big in playoff games. That's 1 area where he's proven he can step up whereas Wheeler is just untested.

The obvious move was to resign Wheeler with his salary slot and let Kay take the 5th spot in the rotation for the minimum. Even at the AAV Wheeler got from Philly:

$23m Wheeler + Kay (min) < $12m Stroman + $10m Porcello + $3m Wacha

Why BVW chose door #2 and giving up SWR is beyond me.

failed us last year. Wern't good enough for the playoffs. Rotation and offense were strengths. Wheeler was absolutely part of that good rotation. He was just as good as Thor over 2018 and 2019.

Just because he doesn't have a fancy nickname doesn't mean he hasn't been really good for us recently.

Wheeler is good doesn't mean that paying him 20M a year for 5 years makes sense.

He’s a top 15 SP in baseball and looking at the current price tags, the Phillies got a steal.

Where we differ is I do think Stroman was a pre-emptive move to guard against losing him (Mets weren’t even in a playoff race when they traded for him) and BVW admitted this over the last couple days.

Vargas was our 5th SP for 2/3rds of the season last year so Porcello/Wacha are comparable to that caliber of player.

I don’t think the Mets SP was an issue at all last year (top 3 in the NL) and this current setup is probably pretty close to what we had for most of 2019.

on the 5 runs thing, plenty of times Wheeler gives up 3 or 4 runs but can't get past the 5th inning. He's inconsistent. He is what he is. If he was worth 20M a year I'm pretty sure the Mets would have kept him. He's not worth it.

Anything could happen in future (injury, regression) but he has absolutely been worth that number. We can criticize what he isn't (he's not JDG or SS) but what he is is still better than the #1 starter on most teams. And that's not hyperbole.

It could very well take us more than a decade to produce another homegrown SP as good as Wheeler or have another one wanting to sign here to the point of giving us the option of refusal. Prior to him and Harvey think about how long ago the last players who fit those categories were. Doc Gooden? Al Leiter?

In comment 14715667 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

on the 5 runs thing, plenty of times Wheeler gives up 3 or 4 runs but can't get past the 5th inning. He's inconsistent. He is what he is. If he was worth 20M a year I'm pretty sure the Mets would have kept him. He's not worth it.

Ryan,
Zack Wheeler went 6+ innings 23 times out of 30 starts. He went 7+ innings 15 times. You simply aren't being accurate in your statements here. Again, using clear #1 SP Strasburg as an example, Strasburg went 6+ 26 times. 7+ innings 13 times.

trade is done. Stupid, but it's done. It shouldn't impact how they handle Stroman going forward IMO.

Now, if the Mets can get major league talent back for him they should.

I'd even try and include Stroman in an Arenado trade - still saves money for the Rockies - especially long-term and Stroman would be a good trade chip at the deadline.

Stroman, JD Davis, Dom Smith and a B prospect for Arenado and Jake McGee.

It doesn't help the Mets get under the LT, but it might start discussions with the Rockies and if you can add an Arenado you exceed the cap for a year IMO.

on Wheeler.

The injury history is something I'd be leery of more than his production.

Once he got past the injuries he became a legit top 20 pitcher.

The injuries will always be in the back of my mind.

I don't hate that the Mets didn't sign him at that price, but it's mostly because we as Mets fans have been conditioned to feel like it's Wheeler or Syndergaard. and in that case I'd prefer Syndergaard.

was terribly inconsistent for the whole season and by the time we were out of it he decided to pitch well. Sorry, that doesn't cut it for me. You need guys that can pitch well all season long. He hasn't really done that ever in his career with the Mets. It's been up and down the entire time.

In comment 14715639 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 · 11m Van Wagenen has said repeatedly wouldn't trade Syndergaard this offseason. But with the cost of free agent SPs, #Mets could be getting big offers. Or Stroman. Or Matz. They could move Gsellman and Wacha becomes a swingman, but BVW indicated yesterday that Wacha would start

I would jump on a good offer for Matz. I think there is a perception that he is better than the results show. Porcello replaces his production in the rotation.

In comment 14715728 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

was terribly inconsistent for the whole season and by the time we were out of it he decided to pitch well. Sorry, that doesn't cut it for me. You need guys that can pitch well all season long. He hasn't really done that ever in his career with the Mets. It's been up and down the entire time.

I think we'd all agree that the NYY are a well run organization that does everything they can to acquire the best players they can and win.

What SP have they been able to find in the past 10 years better than Wheeler? And what did they cost?

If it were easy to find guys who could "pitch well all season long" every team would have JDG. But they don't, do they? That's why they just wrote a $300m check.