But I’m personally ok with not resigning Wheeler for 5 yrs & 118mil (AAV of 24mil).
I think the proper comparison should be what is the drop off, if any, between Wheeler and Stroman. I don’t think, without getting into their respective stats (ie 2017 and 2018), there’s much of a drop off at all. I believe Stroman could reasonably outpitch Zack the next few years. And there may be some upside to Stroman over Zack.
Let's say the rotation is about a wash compared to last year (IMO it isn't, but, we just say it is).
Well, the pen is also the same disaster from last year. Apparently they are 2 million from the luxury cap (in reality we know they aren't due to insurance payments, but the wilpons think we are all stupid), so there doesn't seems to be any money to improve the pen.
Crossing fingers and hoping that Diaz and Familia improve isn't the best plan...
RE: I know we have our reservations about the Mets ownership Â
But I’m personally ok with not resigning Wheeler for 5 yrs & 118mil (AAV of 24mil).
I think the proper comparison should be what is the drop off, if any, between Wheeler and Stroman. I don’t think, without getting into their respective stats (ie 2017 and 2018), there’s much of a drop off at all. I believe Stroman could reasonably outpitch Zack the next few years. And there may be some upside to Stroman over Zack.
Stroman is a FA himself after the season so "next few years" doesn't mean much. If he "outpitches" Wheeler then aren't you then giving him 24+ million per season and if he doesn't pitch well enough for that... then you downgraded. This idea Stroman is a cheaper option is true... for 2020 but only marginally given the fact the Mets could have backloaded Wheeler's first year. Stroman is projected to make 12 million this season and then the Mets will either lose him or give him market rate.
RE: I know we have our reservations about the Mets ownership Â
But I’m personally ok with not resigning Wheeler for 5 yrs & 118mil (AAV of 24mil).
I think the proper comparison should be what is the drop off, if any, between Wheeler and Stroman. I don’t think, without getting into their respective stats (ie 2017 and 2018), there’s much of a drop off at all. I believe Stroman could reasonably outpitch Zack the next few years. And there may be some upside to Stroman over Zack.
I don't disagree with anything you said, but they only have Stroman under contract for 1 year. And if he outpitches what Wheeler has done, he too will get paid.
Sure guys, I’m well aware of Stroman’s contract year Â
But what I’m saying is... IF Stroman is the better pitcher which I suspect he is, then a full year from now after the Cohen’s deal goes through, I don’t see any reason we can’t retain Stroman. Hence, letting Wheeler go was the best long term move.
makes Stroman better or more upside? career 3.64 FIP (3.72 in 2019), highest fWAR season ever was 3.9, Wheeler career 3.71 FIP (3.25 and 3.48 the past 2), 4.7 fWAR in 2019. What in Stroman's resume suggests he's better or has more upside? Last 2 seasons Zack Wheeler 8.9 fWAR, Stroman last 3 seasons 8.7. Hope and prayer? Because the numbers almost across the board favor Wheeler.
Wheeler is good doesn't mean that paying him 20M a year for 5 years makes sense.
After what Cole and Strass got, Wheeler at $20M is a steal. And Dan hits on the pertinent point, he has the ability to get better. You're not going to win this argument.
Only 3 players currently under contract. JDG, Cano, and Familia. Well Brach at $1.25M too. Ramos has a club option.
That is why IMO it makes a ton of sense to exceed the LT this year. the first time penalty is tiny (like 20% of the overage or something like that). So if they go even $20M over the LT it's $4M fine).
It should not limit what the Mets do this year, and if it does then it's like high schoolers running the front office. if the Mets are competitive they'll easily make up that $4M.
makes Stroman better or more upside? career 3.64 FIP (3.72 in 2019), highest fWAR season ever was 3.9, Wheeler career 3.71 FIP (3.25 and 3.48 the past 2), 4.7 fWAR in 2019. What in Stroman's resume suggests he's better or has more upside? Last 2 seasons Zack Wheeler 8.9 fWAR, Stroman last 3 seasons 8.7. Hope and prayer? Because the numbers almost across the board favor Wheeler.
That’s cute Dan. I specifically stated for example looking at years 2017 and 2018 because 2019 was CLEARLY an adjustment, ie switching leagues, adjusting to new/unknown hitters, and pressing. Stroman was clearly too pumped with adrenaline for his starts. Something stats won’t show.
But more importantly, pitching in a league with no DH and a different ballpark makes no difference? At 28 yrs old, Stroman can’t get better? Ok Dan
makes Stroman better or more upside? career 3.64 FIP (3.72 in 2019), highest fWAR season ever was 3.9, Wheeler career 3.71 FIP (3.25 and 3.48 the past 2), 4.7 fWAR in 2019. What in Stroman's resume suggests he's better or has more upside? Last 2 seasons Zack Wheeler 8.9 fWAR, Stroman last 3 seasons 8.7. Hope and prayer? Because the numbers almost across the board favor Wheeler.
That’s cute Dan. I specifically stated for example looking at years 2017 and 2018 because 2019 was CLEARLY an adjustment, ie switching leagues, adjusting to new/unknown hitters, and pressing. Stroman was clearly too pumped with adrenaline for his starts. Something stats won’t show.
But more importantly, pitching in a league with no DH and a different ballpark makes no difference? At 28 yrs old, Stroman can’t get better? Ok Dan
1. Adjustment to an easier offensive league? That's a new one.
2. YOU are the one who suggested he had more upside than Wheeler. I'm asking for evidence of this. Based on what metric? What is this based on? Where is the improvement?
Career vs. 2019
k/9- 7.36 vs. 7.76
bb/9 2.59 vs. 2.83
FIP 3.64 vs. 3.72
Again, please provide me with something that would suggest Stroman is better with more "upside" than Zack Wheeler. Thanks.
That’s cute Dan. I specifically stated for example looking at years 2017 and 2018 because 2019 was CLEARLY an adjustment, ie switching leagues, adjusting to new/unknown hitters, and pressing. Stroman was clearly too pumped with adrenaline for his starts. Something stats won’t show.
But more importantly, pitching in a league with no DH and a different ballpark makes no difference? At 28 yrs old, Stroman can’t get better? Ok Dan
He was awful in 2018. That said, your points are fair, but I'm not bullish on small power pitchers aging well. So if the choice was Stroman v Wheeler, I'm taking Wheeler every time.
Stroman was WORSE than his career numbers in both 2017 and 2018 posting a 3.90 FIP over that time, a lower than his career # K rate as well. So I'm very confused
Your shtick is tired. I said ”there may be some upside with Stroman”. No more no less. I didn’t say ANYTHING DEFINITIVE about Stroman being better than Wheeler.
I also said I “suspect” he is the better pitcher over the next few years. None of your stats can DISPROVE that. But having an argument or debate about something I SUSPECT OR SUGGESTED is ridiculous. If you disagree, then just disagree and move on. This pencil pushing thing you keep doing is tired and played out.
Your shtick is tired. I said ”there may be some upside with Stroman”. No more no less. I didn’t say ANYTHING DEFINITIVE about Stroman being better than Wheeler.
I also said I “suspect” he is the better pitcher over the next few years. None of your stats can DISPROVE that. But having an argument or debate about something I SUSPECT OR SUGGESTED is ridiculous. If you disagree, then just disagree and move on. This pencil pushing thing you keep doing is tired and played out.
Shtick? I'm asking for the basis for you opinion. I'm not using fancy numbers. What is "more upside" based on? So far you've given me nothing other than hope. I'm not allowed to wonder what "more upside" comes from? Pencil pushing? Lame response. You made a claim and have yet to give any reason why. Got it, you "hope" Stroman is better than Wheeler based on.. hope.
Your shtick is tired. I said ”there may be some upside with Stroman”. No more no less. I didn’t say ANYTHING DEFINITIVE about Stroman being better than Wheeler.
I also said I “suspect” he is the better pitcher over the next few years. None of your stats can DISPROVE that. But having an argument or debate about something I SUSPECT OR SUGGESTED is ridiculous. If you disagree, then just disagree and move on. This pencil pushing thing you keep doing is tired and played out.
"And there may be some upside to Stroman over Zack."
I'm not allowed to ask for a reason why? You didn't give any and still haven't. "I just think" is basically what your evidence was. That's fine but that's it.
and then say they are wrong after they give them. That's the issue.
"Opinion" and "opinion backed up by something" are not the same.
"I think Daniel Jones will be better than Lamar Jackson" SHOULD be challenged. Maybe I have something to back it up. If I just say "well, I think his transition to the NFL will make a huge difference" vs. "look at the numbers the past few seasons, look how they compare in xyz".. there is a major difference. You called Wheeler a back end starter, that isn't correct by ANY standard. You said he didn't pitch past the 5th inning enough, I pointed out that wasn't right. You think people should just claim things without being fact checked? That's what we are doing now?
guy, Stroman's WAR was better than Wheeler's this past year, by almost a full point. Stroman 4.4 and Wheeler 3.5.
fWAR uses FIP aka a better tool than ersa. Wheeler posted 4.7 fWAR. Good luck finding anyone in baseball who thinks ERA is a better metric than FIP. Link - ( New Window )
I am not a fan of Stroman. I don't like short pitchers with mediocre velocity.
I started to evaluate your short pitcher mediocre velocity statement. I might argue the opposite. At least he is pitching to his body limitations. I would worry more about his arm and injuries if what you said was true. Note I have no real examples of either case.
but opinions are still opinions. If you ask for someone's opinion and they give it to you, it doesn't mean they owe you some paragraph long explanation as to why they think that. I even tried to do that with you with Wheeler, and you still can't accept my opinion. And it's not like I'm the only person on planet earth who thinks that way, you just can't accept it.
Well Dan, that would have been fine if you had just asked me that Â
But unfortunately, you typically go on a rant with a bunch of stats... TRYING to incite an argument or debate that no one is really having with you. However more importantly, your tone on here is condescending. Maybe that was cool in HS or college but we all are MEN here. So if you want to ask me a follow up question then just ask me a follow up question. Something like “What leads you to think that Stroman has more upside than Wheeler?”
Instead of pulling stats and pretending those are iron clad proof that what I was suggested isn’t reasonable or a possible outcome or just plain wrong. I would be more than happy to engage and entertain a conversation like that then what you’re doing on this board.
era was 3.96, FIP 3.48. That's what happens when you pitch for an awful defensive team. Only 3 pitchers in baseball had a bigger era to FIP split than Noah Syndergaard, why? Because again, the Mets defense was HORRENDOUS. Wheeler was 7th
so you only like to use the stats that fit your narrative? That's bullshit. Stroman's WAR was nearly a full point higher than Wheeler. In your opinion Wheeler is a top 15 pitcher in baseball. Do you think Stroman is a top 15 pitcher in baseball? Because his WAR was .9 higher.
RE: Well Dan, that would have been fine if you had just asked me that Â
But unfortunately, you typically go on a rant with a bunch of stats... TRYING to incite an argument or debate that no one is really having with you. However more importantly, your tone on here is condescending. Maybe that was cool in HS or college but we all are MEN here. So if you want to ask me a follow up question then just ask me a follow up question. Something like “What leads you to think that Stroman has more upside than Wheeler?”
Instead of pulling stats and pretending those are iron clad proof that what I was suggested isn’t reasonable or a possible outcome or just plain wrong. I would be more than happy to engage and entertain a conversation like that then what you’re doing on this board.
How was my initial question anything but?
"What
DanMetroMan : 11:31 am : link : reply
makes Stroman better or more upside? career 3.64 FIP (3.72 in 2019), highest fWAR season ever was 3.9, Wheeler career 3.71 FIP (3.25 and 3.48 the past 2), 4.7 fWAR in 2019. What in Stroman's resume suggests he's better or has more upside? Last 2 seasons Zack Wheeler 8.9 fWAR, Stroman last 3 seasons 8.7. Hope and prayer? Because the numbers almost across the board favor Wheeler."
Your reponse was the rude one.
"
That’s cute Dan. I specifically stated for example looking at years 2017 and 2018 because 2019 was CLEARLY an adjustment, ie switching leagues, adjusting to new/unknown hitters, and pressing. Stroman was clearly too pumped with adrenaline for his starts. Something stats won’t show.
But more importantly, pitching in a league with no DH and a different ballpark makes no difference? At 28 yrs old, Stroman can’t get better? Ok Dan"
so you only like to use the stats that fit your narrative? That's bullshit. Stroman's WAR was nearly a full point higher than Wheeler. In your opinion Wheeler is a top 15 pitcher in baseball. Do you think Stroman is a top 15 pitcher in baseball? Because his WAR was .9 higher.
ryan,
You're going to be on your own on this one. EVERYONE accepts FIP is the superior stat. If you disagree on that one there is nothing else to discuss.
19-6 3.81 era 1.33 whip according to bWAR outpitched SP like Ryu, Bieber, Charlie Morton, Zack Greinke, Noah Syndergaard. Does anyone honestly believe that to be true? Because he won 19 games?
Yes, Eduardo Rodriguez the 7th best SP in baseball, Jack Flaherty #8
So you're telling me I'm supposed to believe Lance Lynn is a better pitcher than Jacob deGrom?
Huh? That's bWAR, the number YOU gave us. fWAR (which uses FIP) has Jacob DeGrom as the #2 P in baseball in 2019 behind Gerrit Cole. Thanks for making my point. bWAR sucks.
just making an obvious point, even if Lynn DID outpitch DeGrom in 2019 (he did not) it wouldn't be making the point he's a better pitcher. Just that he had a better 2019. But deGrom had a lower FIP, era, k/9, across the board by any normal metric Jacob DeGrom outpitched Lance Lynn, bWAR suggests otherwise.
you can throw out 20 different stats if you like. My opinion is that Wheeler isn't worth a huge contract like that. They have Stroman for half the money that Wheeler makes for this year, and by all of your stats, they are basically the same pitcher.
Jacob Resnick
@Jacob_Resnick
The #Mets have selected RHP Adam Oller from the Giants in the minor league phase of the Rule 5 Draft.
12:21 PM · Dec 12, 2019·Twitter Web App
Jacob Resnick
@Jacob_Resnick
·
8m
#Mets minor league OF Jason Krizan was selected by the Twins in the minor league phase of the Rule 5 Draft.
Jacob Resnick
@Jacob_Resnick
·
23m
The #Mets did not lose any players in the major league phase of the Rule 5 Draft.
is saved. Thank god. lol just kidding, but seriously I am glad he wasn't taken.
Newton is a ++ athlete but nobody was taking him and keeping him. The only outcome other than this one would have been a sad one for the kid. An entire year lost sitting on a bench when he needs a LOT of reps. Good for him and the Mets.
New @mets minor league Adam Oller with a great k-rate in Indy Ball in 2019 but this pre-draft report suggests he's a command over stuff type #Mets Link - ( New Window )
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
Van Wagenen hinted the Mets aren't looking for additional bullpen help at this point. He views Lugo and Gsellman as bullpen additions, although technically they never left to become starters.
RE: RE: Well Dan, that would have been fine if you had just asked me that Â
But unfortunately, you typically go on a rant with a bunch of stats... TRYING to incite an argument or debate that no one is really having with you. However more importantly, your tone on here is condescending. Maybe that was cool in HS or college but we all are MEN here. So if you want to ask me a follow up question then just ask me a follow up question. Something like “What leads you to think that Stroman has more upside than Wheeler?”
Instead of pulling stats and pretending those are iron clad proof that what I was suggested isn’t reasonable or a possible outcome or just plain wrong. I would be more than happy to engage and entertain a conversation like that then what you’re doing on this board.
How was my initial question anything but?
"What
DanMetroMan : 11:31 am : link : reply
makes Stroman better or more upside? career 3.64 FIP (3.72 in 2019), highest fWAR season ever was 3.9, Wheeler career 3.71 FIP (3.25 and 3.48 the past 2), 4.7 fWAR in 2019. What in Stroman's resume suggests he's better or has more upside? Last 2 seasons Zack Wheeler 8.9 fWAR, Stroman last 3 seasons 8.7. Hope and prayer? Because the numbers almost across the board favor Wheeler."
Your reponse was the rude one.
"
That’s cute Dan. I specifically stated for example looking at years 2017 and 2018 because 2019 was CLEARLY an adjustment, ie switching leagues, adjusting to new/unknown hitters, and pressing. Stroman was clearly too pumped with adrenaline for his starts. Something stats won’t show.
But more importantly, pitching in a league with no DH and a different ballpark makes no difference? At 28 yrs old, Stroman can’t get better? Ok Dan"
Nice try again
Your initial question ended with “hope and prayer” which suggests a couple things. That I had no factual or reasoned basis for my comment or statement. And 2) that your recited stats are the end all or be all on the topic. If stats told the whole story, then you would be a GM of a baseball team Dan. Because we all know, you have stats for days!!!
But we all know or should know, it takes a little more than just regurgitating stats. We have a ground ball pitcher in Stroman switching leagues with no DH to contend with now, played on some poor Blue Jays teams, and still reasonably young, etc. So suggesting there’s upside here is reasonable. Wheeler is Wheeler. That much we know.
"Not sure why
ryanmkeane : 9:56 am : link : reply
people are pissed at losing Wheeler."
And I've explained why.
I think the proper comparison should be what is the drop off, if any, between Wheeler and Stroman. I don’t think, without getting into their respective stats (ie 2017 and 2018), there’s much of a drop off at all. I believe Stroman could reasonably outpitch Zack the next few years. And there may be some upside to Stroman over Zack.
Well, the pen is also the same disaster from last year. Apparently they are 2 million from the luxury cap (in reality we know they aren't due to insurance payments, but the wilpons think we are all stupid), so there doesn't seems to be any money to improve the pen.
Crossing fingers and hoping that Diaz and Familia improve isn't the best plan...
I think the proper comparison should be what is the drop off, if any, between Wheeler and Stroman. I don’t think, without getting into their respective stats (ie 2017 and 2018), there’s much of a drop off at all. I believe Stroman could reasonably outpitch Zack the next few years. And there may be some upside to Stroman over Zack.
Stroman is a FA himself after the season so "next few years" doesn't mean much. If he "outpitches" Wheeler then aren't you then giving him 24+ million per season and if he doesn't pitch well enough for that... then you downgraded. This idea Stroman is a cheaper option is true... for 2020 but only marginally given the fact the Mets could have backloaded Wheeler's first year. Stroman is projected to make 12 million this season and then the Mets will either lose him or give him market rate.
I think the proper comparison should be what is the drop off, if any, between Wheeler and Stroman. I don’t think, without getting into their respective stats (ie 2017 and 2018), there’s much of a drop off at all. I believe Stroman could reasonably outpitch Zack the next few years. And there may be some upside to Stroman over Zack.
I don't disagree with anything you said, but they only have Stroman under contract for 1 year. And if he outpitches what Wheeler has done, he too will get paid.
After what Cole and Strass got, Wheeler at $20M is a steal. And Dan hits on the pertinent point, he has the ability to get better. You're not going to win this argument.
Only 3 players currently under contract. JDG, Cano, and Familia. Well Brach at $1.25M too. Ramos has a club option.
That is why IMO it makes a ton of sense to exceed the LT this year. the first time penalty is tiny (like 20% of the overage or something like that). So if they go even $20M over the LT it's $4M fine).
It should not limit what the Mets do this year, and if it does then it's like high schoolers running the front office. if the Mets are competitive they'll easily make up that $4M.
That’s cute Dan. I specifically stated for example looking at years 2017 and 2018 because 2019 was CLEARLY an adjustment, ie switching leagues, adjusting to new/unknown hitters, and pressing. Stroman was clearly too pumped with adrenaline for his starts. Something stats won’t show.
But more importantly, pitching in a league with no DH and a different ballpark makes no difference? At 28 yrs old, Stroman can’t get better? Ok Dan
Quote:
makes Stroman better or more upside? career 3.64 FIP (3.72 in 2019), highest fWAR season ever was 3.9, Wheeler career 3.71 FIP (3.25 and 3.48 the past 2), 4.7 fWAR in 2019. What in Stroman's resume suggests he's better or has more upside? Last 2 seasons Zack Wheeler 8.9 fWAR, Stroman last 3 seasons 8.7. Hope and prayer? Because the numbers almost across the board favor Wheeler.
That’s cute Dan. I specifically stated for example looking at years 2017 and 2018 because 2019 was CLEARLY an adjustment, ie switching leagues, adjusting to new/unknown hitters, and pressing. Stroman was clearly too pumped with adrenaline for his starts. Something stats won’t show.
But more importantly, pitching in a league with no DH and a different ballpark makes no difference? At 28 yrs old, Stroman can’t get better? Ok Dan
1. Adjustment to an easier offensive league? That's a new one.
2. YOU are the one who suggested he had more upside than Wheeler. I'm asking for evidence of this. Based on what metric? What is this based on? Where is the improvement?
Career vs. 2019
k/9- 7.36 vs. 7.76
bb/9 2.59 vs. 2.83
FIP 3.64 vs. 3.72
Again, please provide me with something that would suggest Stroman is better with more "upside" than Zack Wheeler. Thanks.
That’s cute Dan. I specifically stated for example looking at years 2017 and 2018 because 2019 was CLEARLY an adjustment, ie switching leagues, adjusting to new/unknown hitters, and pressing. Stroman was clearly too pumped with adrenaline for his starts. Something stats won’t show.
But more importantly, pitching in a league with no DH and a different ballpark makes no difference? At 28 yrs old, Stroman can’t get better? Ok Dan
He was awful in 2018. That said, your points are fair, but I'm not bullish on small power pitchers aging well. So if the choice was Stroman v Wheeler, I'm taking Wheeler every time.
I also said I “suspect” he is the better pitcher over the next few years. None of your stats can DISPROVE that. But having an argument or debate about something I SUSPECT OR SUGGESTED is ridiculous. If you disagree, then just disagree and move on. This pencil pushing thing you keep doing is tired and played out.
I also said I “suspect” he is the better pitcher over the next few years. None of your stats can DISPROVE that. But having an argument or debate about something I SUSPECT OR SUGGESTED is ridiculous. If you disagree, then just disagree and move on. This pencil pushing thing you keep doing is tired and played out.
Shtick? I'm asking for the basis for you opinion. I'm not using fancy numbers. What is "more upside" based on? So far you've given me nothing other than hope. I'm not allowed to wonder what "more upside" comes from? Pencil pushing? Lame response. You made a claim and have yet to give any reason why. Got it, you "hope" Stroman is better than Wheeler based on.. hope.
I also said I “suspect” he is the better pitcher over the next few years. None of your stats can DISPROVE that. But having an argument or debate about something I SUSPECT OR SUGGESTED is ridiculous. If you disagree, then just disagree and move on. This pencil pushing thing you keep doing is tired and played out.
"And there may be some upside to Stroman over Zack."
I'm not allowed to ask for a reason why? You didn't give any and still haven't. "I just think" is basically what your evidence was. That's fine but that's it.
Wacha 4.78
Matz 4.34
Stroman 3.90
Syndergaard 3.69
DeGrom 3.00
They better score a ton of runs, or Steamer be wrong or this could be a very ugly season.
@SNYtv
·
8m
The Mets reportedly would not trade Brandon Nimmo straight up for Starling Marte https://on.sny.tv/mXgzKsI
"Opinion" and "opinion backed up by something" are not the same.
"I think Daniel Jones will be better than Lamar Jackson" SHOULD be challenged. Maybe I have something to back it up. If I just say "well, I think his transition to the NFL will make a huge difference" vs. "look at the numbers the past few seasons, look how they compare in xyz".. there is a major difference. You called Wheeler a back end starter, that isn't correct by ANY standard. You said he didn't pitch past the 5th inning enough, I pointed out that wasn't right. You think people should just claim things without being fact checked? That's what we are doing now?
fWAR uses FIP aka a better tool than ersa. Wheeler posted 4.7 fWAR. Good luck finding anyone in baseball who thinks ERA is a better metric than FIP.
Link - ( New Window )
I am not a fan of Stroman. I don't like short pitchers with mediocre velocity.
I started to evaluate your short pitcher mediocre velocity statement. I might argue the opposite. At least he is pitching to his body limitations. I would worry more about his arm and injuries if what you said was true. Note I have no real examples of either case.
Instead of pulling stats and pretending those are iron clad proof that what I was suggested isn’t reasonable or a possible outcome or just plain wrong. I would be more than happy to engage and entertain a conversation like that then what you’re doing on this board.
Instead of pulling stats and pretending those are iron clad proof that what I was suggested isn’t reasonable or a possible outcome or just plain wrong. I would be more than happy to engage and entertain a conversation like that then what you’re doing on this board.
How was my initial question anything but?
"What
DanMetroMan : 11:31 am : link : reply
makes Stroman better or more upside? career 3.64 FIP (3.72 in 2019), highest fWAR season ever was 3.9, Wheeler career 3.71 FIP (3.25 and 3.48 the past 2), 4.7 fWAR in 2019. What in Stroman's resume suggests he's better or has more upside? Last 2 seasons Zack Wheeler 8.9 fWAR, Stroman last 3 seasons 8.7. Hope and prayer? Because the numbers almost across the board favor Wheeler."
Your reponse was the rude one.
"
That’s cute Dan. I specifically stated for example looking at years 2017 and 2018 because 2019 was CLEARLY an adjustment, ie switching leagues, adjusting to new/unknown hitters, and pressing. Stroman was clearly too pumped with adrenaline for his starts. Something stats won’t show.
But more importantly, pitching in a league with no DH and a different ballpark makes no difference? At 28 yrs old, Stroman can’t get better? Ok Dan"
Nice try again
ryan,
You're going to be on your own on this one. EVERYONE accepts FIP is the superior stat. If you disagree on that one there is nothing else to discuss.
1. Verlander
2. Minor
3. Lynn
4. DeGrom
5. Cole
6. Strasburg
7. Eduardo Rodriguez (Yes, Eduardo Rodriguez)
8. Jack Flaherty
Yes, Eduardo Rodriguez the 7th best SP in baseball, Jack Flaherty #8
1. Verlander
2. Minor
3. Lynn
4. DeGrom
5. Cole
6. Strasburg
7. Eduardo Rodriguez (Yes, Eduardo Rodriguez)
8. Jack Flaherty
Yes, Eduardo Rodriguez the 7th best SP in baseball, Jack Flaherty #8
So you're telling me I'm supposed to believe Lance Lynn is a better pitcher than Jacob deGrom?
So you're telling me I'm supposed to believe Lance Lynn is a better pitcher than Jacob deGrom?
No, he's showing you how absurd it is to use ERA as a primary stat.
Quote:
is the top 8 using ERA over FIP in 2019
1. Verlander
2. Minor
3. Lynn
4. DeGrom
5. Cole
6. Strasburg
7. Eduardo Rodriguez (Yes, Eduardo Rodriguez)
8. Jack Flaherty
Yes, Eduardo Rodriguez the 7th best SP in baseball, Jack Flaherty #8
So you're telling me I'm supposed to believe Lance Lynn is a better pitcher than Jacob deGrom?
Huh? That's bWAR, the number YOU gave us. fWAR (which uses FIP) has Jacob DeGrom as the #2 P in baseball in 2019 behind Gerrit Cole. Thanks for making my point. bWAR sucks.
1) Cole
2) DeGrom
3) Lynn
4) Scherzer
5) Verlander
6) Morton
7) Strasburg
8) Bieber
Greinke was 9th, Rodriguez 24th, Flaherty 14th
@Jacob_Resnick
The #Mets have selected RHP Adam Oller from the Giants in the minor league phase of the Rule 5 Draft.
12:21 PM · Dec 12, 2019·Twitter Web App
Jacob Resnick
@Jacob_Resnick
·
8m
#Mets minor league OF Jason Krizan was selected by the Twins in the minor league phase of the Rule 5 Draft.
Jacob Resnick
@Jacob_Resnick
·
23m
The #Mets did not lose any players in the major league phase of the Rule 5 Draft.
Newton is a ++ athlete but nobody was taking him and keeping him. The only outcome other than this one would have been a sad one for the kid. An entire year lost sitting on a bench when he needs a LOT of reps. Good for him and the Mets.
Link - ( New Window )
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
Van Wagenen hinted the Mets aren't looking for additional bullpen help at this point. He views Lugo and Gsellman as bullpen additions, although technically they never left to become starters.
Quote:
But unfortunately, you typically go on a rant with a bunch of stats... TRYING to incite an argument or debate that no one is really having with you. However more importantly, your tone on here is condescending. Maybe that was cool in HS or college but we all are MEN here. So if you want to ask me a follow up question then just ask me a follow up question. Something like “What leads you to think that Stroman has more upside than Wheeler?”
Instead of pulling stats and pretending those are iron clad proof that what I was suggested isn’t reasonable or a possible outcome or just plain wrong. I would be more than happy to engage and entertain a conversation like that then what you’re doing on this board.
How was my initial question anything but?
"What
DanMetroMan : 11:31 am : link : reply
makes Stroman better or more upside? career 3.64 FIP (3.72 in 2019), highest fWAR season ever was 3.9, Wheeler career 3.71 FIP (3.25 and 3.48 the past 2), 4.7 fWAR in 2019. What in Stroman's resume suggests he's better or has more upside? Last 2 seasons Zack Wheeler 8.9 fWAR, Stroman last 3 seasons 8.7. Hope and prayer? Because the numbers almost across the board favor Wheeler."
Your reponse was the rude one.
"
That’s cute Dan. I specifically stated for example looking at years 2017 and 2018 because 2019 was CLEARLY an adjustment, ie switching leagues, adjusting to new/unknown hitters, and pressing. Stroman was clearly too pumped with adrenaline for his starts. Something stats won’t show.
But more importantly, pitching in a league with no DH and a different ballpark makes no difference? At 28 yrs old, Stroman can’t get better? Ok Dan"
Nice try again
Your initial question ended with “hope and prayer” which suggests a couple things. That I had no factual or reasoned basis for my comment or statement. And 2) that your recited stats are the end all or be all on the topic. If stats told the whole story, then you would be a GM of a baseball team Dan. Because we all know, you have stats for days!!!
But we all know or should know, it takes a little more than just regurgitating stats. We have a ground ball pitcher in Stroman switching leagues with no DH to contend with now, played on some poor Blue Jays teams, and still reasonably young, etc. So suggesting there’s upside here is reasonable. Wheeler is Wheeler. That much we know.
Matt Ehalt
@MattEhalt
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1m
Not gonna lie, not sure the last time I heard a team say that keeping their closer as a reliever is an "addition"
The Mets potentially punting on adding any bullpen help is the opposite of eliminating ifs.