It seems most (I won't say all, and never do) of BBI is trending towards relieving Shurmur (and at the very least, Bettcher) of his duties.
Golden is an AZ carry over, but unlike the others has been highly productive and really the only FA hit I can see in the past two seasons.
The Giants need an edge rusher, but with a change in coaching staff Golden's utility might be limited.
Without knowing right now who steps in for Golden, if you had to guess - are you retaining him or letting him walk? And if you are ready to retain, how far ($$-wise) are you willing to go?
To me this one seems like an underrated key decision for this offseason, and I'm not sure which way to lean. I think he's played very well, but not sure you get the same out of him at DE if the team were to decide to switch back to a 4-3. I also think TB might have some interest in him, and his price might be higher than expected.
Excellent point. I’d rather invest in Golden, who has a real niche, than JAG Williams...
Lawrence and Williams can be excellent DEs in a 43 but problem is they wouldn't have any starting caliber ends. Xman maybe but needs to get stronger.
Have to agree. He is more effective than OV, but not a game changer. Perhaps with a Chase Young on the other side, he gets there more often.
He does take some stupid offsides penalties a little to often.
At $6 mill, he might be worth it...
LW is better at his niche (stopping the run) than Golden is at his (rushing the passer).
If Shurmur and co. are fired - who knows who fits where. It's impossible to say right now.
But if they stick with the 34, I'd re-sign Golden. As for his contract, I think the closest comp is Preston Smith and the 4 yr/$52M he signed for last season. Not sure I'd go that high, but a 3-4 yr deal worth $12-13M per would be reasonable.
Grab Chase Young to start at the other OLB spot with Williams, Lawrence and Tomlinson up front and the pass rush should be much improved with decent depth at both DL (Hill) and OLB (Ximenes, Carter). Get some ILBs and a FS (Love?) with some improvement from the young CBs (mainly Beal & Baker) and the D could be solid, particularly with a coaching improvement.
With the amount of aggregate cap room available across the league this coming offseason, I'm not sure there will be such a thing as "a reasonable cost" in 2020. Or, at the very least, our idea of what constitutes a reasonable cost is about to be redefined.
But if they stick with the 34, I'd re-sign Golden. As for his contract, I think the closest comp is Preston Smith and the 4 yr/$52M he signed for last season. Not sure I'd go that high, but a 3-4 yr deal worth $12-13M per would be reasonable.
Grab Chase Young to start at the other OLB spot with Williams, Lawrence and Tomlinson up front and the pass rush should be much improved with decent depth at both DL (Hill) and OLB (Ximenes, Carter). Get some ILBs and a FS (Love?) with some improvement from the young CBs (mainly Beal & Baker) and the D could be solid, particularly with a coaching improvement.
This has to be the thinking........and especially a coaching improvement!
Looking at things, the Giants are actually going to be an attractive landing spot.
There, I said it.
If he's as good as advertised, I think Young would free him up a little more since Young will at least occasionally draw some doubles and/or get some quick pressure that forces the QB in Golden's direction.
The reality is that if we let Golden move on, we may be hard pressed to use that money effectively.
The worst thing a GM could do is what Reese did, sign a bunch of FAs for a long term top $ contract at the same time. Yeesh.
I hate Bettcher, and we lack critical parts for a 34 defense, but we simply can not switch gears and go back to a 43 now.... We are even further from fielding a decent 43 defense, and it would take longer for us to start over and build the necessary pieces than it would take to get a new 34 coach and continue down this line....
The reality is that if we let Golden move on, we may be hard pressed to use that money effectively.
That second line is exactly where I am with this, and why I think they might have to overpay for Golden. I don't think the FA market for edge rushers is going to be robust.
The smart move if they have decided internally that they'd like to retain Golden was to try to extend him in-season.
That said, I think if he is opposite a guy like Chase Young or Yannick Ngakoue (even though I don't see Jax letting him go), that would increase his value. Personally, I would see if he would come back on a 2-3 year deal, but I have a feeling he's going to take this year's sack total which will be in double digits and go elsewhere for more money than the Giants should pay him.
I think they bring him back if the price is reasonable and draft young. golden has been productive without a significant edge player opposite him. you draft young, the attention is off golden who in theory could be more productive because of it. i hope he has 3 poor games, anything to lower his value some because if they can get him for the right price, him and young could be nice with a DL of tomlinson, lawerence and williams with hill rotating in
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our new DC might run a 4-3
I hate Bettcher, and we lack critical parts for a 34 defense, but we simply can not switch gears and go back to a 43 now.... We are even further from fielding a decent 43 defense, and it would take longer for us to start over and build the necessary pieces than it would take to get a new 34 coach and continue down this line....
I'm not sure we're any further from a 43, unless you count Leonard Williams and/or Golden as part of the 2020+ team (and they're both currently UFAs):
DL: Lawrence and Tomlinson can start in either. Hill is solid depth for both
LB: Carter/Ximenes/Connelly - I view them as depth at this point, maybe 1 starter if the rest of the D is improved dramatically.
Either way they need pass rushing #1 especially if Golden leaves and a significant improvement at MLB/ILB.
34: DL is ok if LW returns. Need 1-2 ERs (depending on Golden) + 2 ILBs
43: LW/Golden are poor fits. Need 2 DEs (ERs) and 2-3 LBs.
One of our defenses main problems this year is setting an edge in the run game and rushing the passer. Golden has done a very good job with sacks and pressure and is a high effort guy with a great attitude. He has been the best FA pick up by Gettlemen by far.
All this said, I think it would unwise to give Golden more than $10 Million per year. Williams will probably be re-signed and will cost aroun$15 Mill. If we are gonna go hard for an edge guy I would rather see Ngakoue or Dupree.
One of our defenses main problems this year is setting an edge in the run game and rushing the passer. Golden has done a very good job with sacks and pressure and is a high effort guy with a great attitude. He has been the best FA pick up by Gettlemen by far.
All this said, I think it would unwise to give Golden more than $10 Million per year. Williams will probably be re-signed and will cost aroun$15 Mill. If we are gonna go hard for an edge guy I would rather see Ngakoue or Dupree.
There are posters here convinced that Leonard Williams would command upwards of $15M on the open market. Not sure that I agree with them, but it is possible. If LW is worth that, can you imagine what Ngakoue and Dupree will be asking for on a market flush with cash?
That being said Golden is a tough case and is gonna come down to what the market for him is. Next season he will be 29 and we all know about his injury history. Could be one of those guys who you give a bunch of money and never see in the field again, let alone playing at this level.
He's also not very good against the run, but neither is Yannick. Teams will overlook this to some degree and pay through the nose for pass rush and big plays.
What will be interesting to see is how much money someone will be willing to guaruntee, and personally I would want a team option on anything past 3 years. Gun to my head, if I had to make a decision right now my offer would be 3 years 13m a year with 30% guarunteed and a 4th year team option. If another team goes nuts they can have him. He may be willing to take less guarunteed money for the potential of making more per year, players often bet on themselves this way and I'm sure his confidence is sky-high right now.
He's a pure blitz edge rusher. He's going to end the season with 40+ pressures and double digits sacks.
He's going to get way more than 8M a year. The ghost of Kareem Martin got 6M a year 3 off seasons ago.
I'd offer him 3/30M fully guaranteed right now.
This likely his last chance to cash in. And with all the money in the market, and recent comps at DT, Team LW is going big.
He's a pure blitz edge rusher. He's going to end the season with 40+ pressures and double digits sacks.
He's going to get way more than 8M a year. The ghost of Kareem Martin got 6M a year 3 off seasons ago.
I'd offer him 3/30M fully guaranteed right now.
That would be a steal $30M/3. I'll take it for sure. But there is going to be some serious cap inflation this year.
I like Golden - much better than LW - and hope we can indeed find a way to keep. Unfortunately, we really messed that opportunity up by trading for LW...
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We need to understand that first and foremost. Golden, Carter, Ximines have all played some DE in a 4 man front. They are rarely in a true 3-4 alignment. Since we have more personnel for the 3-4 I would expect we stay with it. If we draft Chase Young, he will be scheme diverse.
One of our defenses main problems this year is setting an edge in the run game and rushing the passer. Golden has done a very good job with sacks and pressure and is a high effort guy with a great attitude. He has been the best FA pick up by Gettlemen by far.
All this said, I think it would unwise to give Golden more than $10 Million per year. Williams will probably be re-signed and will cost aroun$15 Mill. If we are gonna go hard for an edge guy I would rather see Ngakoue or Dupree.
There are posters here convinced that Leonard Williams would command upwards of $15M on the open market. Not sure that I agree with them, but it is possible. If LW is worth that, can you imagine what Ngakoue and Dupree will be asking for on a market flush with cash?
Ngakoue will ask for (and likely get) $20M+ per season. Frank Clark just signed for 5 yrs/$104M last offseason and D Lawrence got 5 yrs/$105M. You can make a case Yannick deserves more than either of those two plus he'll be 25 next season (Clark was 26 and DLaw 27 in the 1st years of their deals, respectively).
This likely his last chance to cash in. And with all the money in the market, and recent comps at DT, Team LW is going big.
$18M per is high. Name a non-pass rusher that gets that? I see LW in the $15-17M per range.
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LW is getting at least $18M/yr on the open market. $15M/yr is a pipe dream.
This likely his last chance to cash in. And with all the money in the market, and recent comps at DT, Team LW is going big.
$18M per is high. Name a non-pass rusher that gets that? I see LW in the $15-17M per range.
His franchise tag is going to be $17M+.
Grady Jarrett signed for $17M/yr this summer. His stats are very similar to LW. So add in the typical YoY salary increase per the cap and we are north of $18M...
Look how Golden is being used now - hand in the dirt on passing downs.
I’d resign him as a pass rushing specialist.
Thinking back to the Strahan, Osi, Tuck and then Osi, Tuck and JPP.
If the plan is to draft Young, you then sign another high-end pass rusher for the other side, and then you add Golden to the mix.
But since they will have to made a decision on Williams, that will throw this off.
Golden will probably end up around 10 sacks this year which I'd prefer to keep, but I don't have interest in paying him Dee Ford money - and like it or not that may not be a crazy comp.
Agree with this. He's going to get overpaid on his stats this year. He's a nice player but not one to pay. Take the comp pick that he will net and call it a day.
Furthermore, if they draft Chase Young, keeping Golden would mean no reps for Carter or Ximines. The plan needs to be to develop those two.
Interesting game against the Eagles for X.... His game is getting much better. He has really developed his hands, and I think he has a better upside than Golden.
I would absolutely resign Williams, whatever D they're playing. I'd like them to keep all 4 tackles. There is a good core growing there.
Agree. He’s created some pressure off the edge but I think he’s a little too undisciplined to be paid like a core player. I don’t like how he sets the edge vs the run. He’s also getting older and has the injury history.
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For Leonard Williams.
Excellent point. I’d rather invest in Golden, who has a real niche, than JAG Williams...
Excellent point? It’s the same fucking point being posted on just about every thread and by and large is completely irrelevant here.
There is a difference with a 4-3 vs 3-4. The 3-4 relies more on quickness. Strong running teams can get their OLinemen on a much smaller LB vs fighting against a DT. Not saying 3-4 is no good. Just that it's easier to push around unless you have at least one stud ILB - if they get a pass rush too.
Not sure about that, just a strong hunch. I almost never see Golden double teamed. In fact, leave out the "almost".
Good point that Golden's market value is similar to, not better than, Preston Smith. IMHO.
Let Golden walk and hope to get a 4th for him.
As opposed to 2/4/5 with two dts and two edge olbs, a 3/3/5 or even 3/2/6 can give you a 4 down nickle plus better run AND in the latter case better pass defense.
So I agree with those who said make Williams priority and resign golden if you also can. Because w Williams your less run liable