Raanan Podcast tonight: Regarding Gettleman and Shurmur

but the Tisch side is as much the owner as the Mara side. If they really reach an impasse, where Tisch says "Things have to change, a lot" and Mara says "Change, sure, but only a little, and I keep control," is going to get nasty in a hurry. Neither can act without the other. Tisch can simply refuse to approve anything if it comes to that.

Then it gets kind of nasty -- that's the sort of impasse that forced the league to bring George Young to Wellington & Tim Mara.

In comment 14716647 arniefez said:

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But every Giant fan should listen to what Sal Paolantonio says about Eli. Spoiler he's a HOF voter and he's voting for Eli 1st ballot.

Hearing “Eli” and “1st Ballot HOFer” from a HOF voter must have been like fingernails on a chalkboard to Ranaan. Especially since it’s correct.

Is spot on. But in times like this it's to our benefit to have this type of arrangement. Maybe JM would otherwise be inclined to keep these assholes, or hire another asshole from within the 'family'... Someone needs to reality check Mara. He was born on third. It's not his genius that landed him where he is. And it shows. Fix it, moron.

Also said Giants should go after Urban Meyer. His opinion

If things improve, then it's because Tisch took control. If Gettleman stays and the team improves, it's because somebody behind the scenes cracked the whip. If a new coach and GM comes in but the team is garbage again, it's because Mara is a meddlesome owner.

Tons of people here act as though they know what's going on behind the scenes, usually because they take a single fact or even just a rumor and then spin their own stories out of it. Ranaan's little rumor here is gold to people who want to embrace the narrative that Tisch is going to ride in and save the day or the idea that Mara has to be strongarmed away from football operations.

Reporters (yes even sports reporters) don't "make up" sources. Their editors won't let them.

When Raanan cites "people around the league" as a source... believe it.

Doesn't mean DG will actually get fired, but I'm sure that's what Raanan is hearing.

of this all work? John Mara is the president of some holding company that owns their 50% of the team?

Wellington Mara had quite a few kids, just wondering how the actual Mara ownership works and whether or not there could be some infighting if they themselves felt the team isn't being run properly.

.

Only because I like Sal Pal so much. Jordan has spent pretty much his entire career covering the Giants making fun of Eli and disparaging his career and HOF chances. To hear Sal Pal call Eli his favorite NFL player hands down, a first ballot HOFer hands down, was incredibly fun. You could almost hear Jordan’s hair frizzing up from shock :D

i'd be truly surprised if he didn't get some kind of public concession. Even if it was a toothless one, IMO he's covering his own ass with all these public comments and is sick of the stink around the team falling on him. All fair.

New Yorkers aren't exactly shy about letting people know when they think they are doing a bad job. I would be surprised if that didn't play some kind of role in him speaking out.

Meyer gets an interview or interest, not just for health reasons either.

And it's posted on BBI 3 times

And his sources told him that Gettleman is likely gone. The question remains how good are his (or any reporters) sources. Put me in the camp if “when Jay Glazer says it, I’ll believe it.”

Eric outlined the case to move on from Gettleman the best. It’s not really about performance, which has had its highs and lows. There is no question in my mind that DG has improved the talent on the roster. He’s drafted a franchise QB and generational offensive weapon in two years. He’s cleared cap space beginning this coming offseason. He netted two players and two draft picks by dealing two players no longer in the Giants future plans. DG is not a bad GM, he’s imperfect, but he’s no worse than average.

This really comes down to DGs age. If the Giants move on from DG it’s because they don’t want a 70 year old GM presiding over the restructure of the team.

I’ll be very surprised if the Giants move on from DG and it does not matter if Tisch is about to have a cow. I expect Gettleman to retain his job. However, if the Giants do fire DG, I suspect that means they will look to make a big splash. Something like Meyer or Saban, or a McDaniels - Caserio team.

In comment 14716679 BigBlueCane said:

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Meyer gets an interview or interest, not just for health reasons either.

Not sure about zero. But agree it’s not likely.

it’s hurting the Tisch family where it hurts the most for them:

Their wallets

They earned their millions the old fashioned way...HARD WORK ! No more Mara BS

In comment 14716685 Emil said:

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And his sources told him that Gettleman is likely gone. The question remains how good are his (or any reporters) sources. Put me in the camp if “when Jay Glazer says it, I’ll believe it.” Eric outlined the case to move on from Gettleman the best. It’s not really about performance, which has had its highs and lows. There is no question in my mind that DG has improved the talent on the roster. He’s drafted a franchise QB and generational offensive weapon in two years. He’s cleared cap space beginning this coming offseason. He netted two players and two draft picks by dealing two players no longer in the Giants future plans. DG is not a bad GM, he’s imperfect, but he’s no worse than average. This really comes down to DGs age. If the Giants move on from DG it’s because they don’t want a 70 year old GM presiding over the restructure of the team. I’ll be very surprised if the Giants move on from DG and it does not matter if Tisch is about to have a cow. I expect Gettleman to retain his job. However, if the Giants do fire DG, I suspect that means they will look to make a big splash. Something like Meyer or Saban, or a McDaniels - Caserio team.

So if a 50% owner is "about to have a cow" it doesn't matter? What, they're just going to tell him to piss off?

They earned their millions the old fashioned way...HARD WORK ! No more Mara BS

I think if there is a coach who the Giants want to give full control to him (or more control than they've done in the past), I could see the Giants force Gettleman's hand and he retires.

I think if the Giants land Rivera (there are rumors he will go to the Chargers), then I see Gettleman staying.

But from an organizational standpoint, generally speaking, you don't want to be the Jets (which goes without saying) and be in a situation where you are replacing your coach and GM out of synch. You don't want a GM inheriting a coach, it rarely works out. You are better off doing a package deal to get the organization all singing off the same sheet of music.

That's why if Rivera comes, I think it makes sense to keep Gettleman because they've already worked together and had success.

In comment 14716707 morrison40 said:

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They earned their millions the old fashioned way...HARD WORK ! No more Mara BS

Robert and Larry Tisch did work hard to build up their fortune in hotels and Loew's move theatres. But Steve and Jonathan Tisch both inherited a great deal from their family, just like John and Chris Mara.

In comment 14716606 HomerJones45 said:

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he cannot force a freaking thing. We'll see.

He can basically shut the whole thing down until the Maras play ball - much like Tim did to Wellington in the 70s that forced him to hire George Young.

So yes, if Tisch got really ticked off, he could indirectly force change.

is a broken down piece of crap.

They need a plan. And then they need to hire a man that has a credible plan that can give them confidence and vision he can carry it out.

And his ideas should make them uncomfortable because whatever they think has been correct lately isn’t...

In comment 14716672 jcn56 said:

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of this all work? John Mara is the president of some holding company that owns their 50% of the team? Wellington Mara had quite a few kids, just wondering how the actual Mara ownership works and whether or not there could be some infighting if they themselves felt the team isn't being run properly.

With Chris Mara and Tim McDonnell heavily involved in personnel and Frank Mara over in the community relations area, I'm not sure where a Mara voice of discontent would come from.

The number of Superbowls we've won with John Mara as owner: 0.

After Wellington Mara died, his wife Ann Mara was the owner until she died in 2015.

In comment 14716715 Matt in SGS said:

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In comment 14716707 morrison40 said: Quote: They earned their millions the old fashioned way...HARD WORK ! No more Mara BS Robert and Larry Tisch did work hard to build up their fortune in hotels and Loew's move theatres. But Steve and Jonathan Tisch both inherited a great deal from their family, just like John and Chris Mara.

Yeh but Steve built a very successful movie studio outside of all that. He had a lot of funding but he started from scratch.

In comment 14716704 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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In comment 14716685 Emil said: Quote: And his sources told him that Gettleman is likely gone. The question remains how good are his (or any reporters) sources. Put me in the camp if “when Jay Glazer says it, I’ll believe it.” Eric outlined the case to move on from Gettleman the best. It’s not really about performance, which has had its highs and lows. There is no question in my mind that DG has improved the talent on the roster. He’s drafted a franchise QB and generational offensive weapon in two years. He’s cleared cap space beginning this coming offseason. He netted two players and two draft picks by dealing two players no longer in the Giants future plans. DG is not a bad GM, he’s imperfect, but he’s no worse than average. This really comes down to DGs age. If the Giants move on from DG it’s because they don’t want a 70 year old GM presiding over the restructure of the team. I’ll be very surprised if the Giants move on from DG and it does not matter if Tisch is about to have a cow. I expect Gettleman to retain his job. However, if the Giants do fire DG, I suspect that means they will look to make a big splash. Something like Meyer or Saban, or a McDaniels - Caserio team. So if a 50% owner is "about to have a cow" it doesn't matter? What, they're just going to tell him to piss off?

Point being it’s only a 50% opinion and the arrangement since the Tisch’s became 50% owners was that the Maras had final word on football decisions. Tisch will not be discounted. It’s a partnership. But Mara isn’t going to do something just because Tisch is made. Tisch is going to have to make a convincing argument and present a viable better alternative. Some Giants fans seem to be of the belief that Tisch is going to storm in on the Sunday before Black Monday and lay down some ultimatums. That’s unlikely to happen. It’s going to be more like a boring board meeting and assessment of team direction. Common ground will be the goal.

I’m probably in the minority on BBI right now, but I am not a fan of radical change because the results have not been what you expected. DG has brought a lot of promising and inexpensive young players to this roster. Sure he has his FA warts, but those are easy to move on from. I don’t think he “deserves” to be fired. But, if ownership decides that a 70 year old, anti analytics, old school, GM is not who they want to pair with a new coach, Saquon Barkley and Daniel Jones, then fine. At least that’s rational. I’m just not in the fire Gettleman because we have two wins crowd. That record is squarely on the shoulders of one of the all time losing coaches in NFL history and his lackluster staff.

In comment 14716662 Jim in Tampa said:

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Reporters (yes even sports reporters) don't "make up" sources. Their editors won't let them. When Raanan cites "people around the league" as a source... believe it. Doesn't mean DG will actually get fired, but I'm sure that's what Raanan is hearing.

This is sports reporting, not news reporting. The rules are different and some guys make up shit all the time. Peter King pretty much is coasting on his rep doing this now.

In comment 14716708 Matt in SGS said:

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I think if there is a coach who the Giants want to give full control to him (or more control than they've done in the past), I could see the Giants force Gettleman's hand and he retires. I think if the Giants land Rivera (there are rumors he will go to the Chargers), then I see Gettleman staying. But from an organizational standpoint, generally speaking, you don't want to be the Jets (which goes without saying) and be in a situation where you are replacing your coach and GM out of synch. You don't want a GM inheriting a coach, it rarely works out. You are better off doing a package deal to get the organization all singing off the same sheet of music. That's why if Rivera comes, I think it makes sense to keep Gettleman because they've already worked together and had success.

Matt you are seriously one of the best posters. Makes total sense.

coach picking the GM, unless we give someone institutional control and that would be a huge depertaure from SOP for the Giants.

a franchise QB and generational talent is either one of his family members or drinking Giants Kool Aid laced with LSD.

No one knows what Jones is yet but what he is not is an elite QB. He's never been that and he's never going to be that. That doesn't mean a good NFL team can't win with him.

I'm assuming Barkley is this generational talent you speak of? Based on what? Certainly not production.

Knowing how hard it is to find a quarterback.

I thought this was common knowledge,but we have a few dumb asses.

We also have some who people are acting dumb, with questionable motives.

In comment 14716733 arniefez said:

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a franchise QB and generational talent is either one of his family members or drinking Giants Kool Aid laced with LSD. No one knows what Jones is yet but what he is not is an elite QB. He's never been that and he's never going to be that. That doesn't mean a good NFL team can't win with him. I'm assuming Barkley is this generational talent you speak of? Based on what? Certainly not production.

Nice personal attack my friend. Let’s stick to football. I’m also not Jewish enough to be Gettlemans relative.

Fair point on Jones. He has not proven it yet. But we’ve seen far more out him as a rookie than we ever saw in Eli. Not to mention production in the passing game with multiple 300 yard and two 4TD games. I think he is someone we can be positive about.

Barkley was the rookie of the year. He has two 100 yard games before the high ankle sprain. He is playing in a scheme that does not maximize his talent, routinely gets the ball less than 20 times a game, runs behind a below average (to bad) OL and has a play caller who loves running inside zone over and over and over. My opinion on Barkley is unchanged from his rookie season.

In comment 14716735 ghost718 said:

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Knowing how hard it is to find a quarterback. I thought this was common knowledge,but we have a few dumb asses. We also have some who people are acting dumb, with questionable motives.

i'm sorry but this logic doesn't make sense. the team is not better in any area since he took over. ok he drafted jones (the jury is still out on him but ok let's assume he's good). but he inspires no confidence he can put the right team around him. just drafting jones doesn't get you immunity from everything else

In comment 14716732 Zeke's Alibi said:

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coach picking the GM, unless we give someone institutional control and that would be a huge depertaure from SOP for the Giants.

I think that's the point, for the right candidate (and I don't know who that is), I think what Tisch is pushing for is looking changing the way that George Young set up the org in 1978.

What I can see happening, to be honest, is Shurmur gets fired because Gettleman will convince the owners that coaching was a big reason why the team lost all these games. And the regression of the 2nd year players I think he will blame on coaching.

Now, Mara and Tisch might well agree with that assessment, but decide they need to swap out Gettleman too. In order to save face for Gettleman and let him retire, they will point to the following in the spin (which might be true, might not be true) and they will say that Gettleman did the following

- Cleared out all the previous long term contracts that Reese had and put the Giants in better shape cap wise going into 2020

- Set the team up with multiple draft picks giving them more flexibility

- Found Eli's successor in Daniel Jones, which was a priority

- The Giants have talent from the 2018 and 2019 drafts to help build a new foundation that needs proper coaching to take the next step

With all that in place, they will say the time is right to find a new group to lead the Giants towards a championship. But any coach/ GM who comes in will probably have to do so with the understanding that Jones is the QB and they have to win with him (ie- no Kingsbury situation with Kyler Murray).

Again, you can argue how true those statements are, but I just don't see Mara throwing Gettleman to the curb. I think they will try to give him a gracious exit, but they will throw Shurmur and Bettcher under the bus.

You take a ride in a DeLorean with a flux capacitor back to 1992? The professions of journalism and reporting is in disgrace. They've lost all credibility as neutral conduits for facts and truth. The entire industry has been prostituted for a combination of Agenda, clicks and driving traffic to generate revenue.

In comment 14716725 FStubbs said:

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The number of Superbowls we've won with John Mara as owner: 0. After Wellington Mara died, his wife Ann Mara was the owner until she died in 2015.

Yeah, okay. Ann Mara was the one calling the shots.

Despite his mistakes recently, John Mara isn't nearly the incompetent boob folks make him out to be. He had a major hand in the Giants' success under Coughlin.

In comment 14716740 GiantsFan84 said:

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i'm sorry but this logic doesn't make sense. the team is not better in any area since he took over. ok he drafted jones (the jury is still out on him but ok let's assume he's good). but he inspires no confidence he can put the right team around him. just drafting jones doesn't get you immunity from everything else

So what are you gonna do,you're gonna get rid of the GM because he signed Patrick Omameh and Nate Solder,but drafted the next quarterback.

You can add a few more complaints to that,and it still wouldn't make any sense.

In comment 14716747 Matt in SGS said:

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In comment 14716732 Zeke's Alibi said: Quote: coach picking the GM, unless we give someone institutional control and that would be a huge depertaure from SOP for the Giants. I think that's the point, for the right candidate (and I don't know who that is), I think what Tisch is pushing for is looking changing the way that George Young set up the org in 1978. What I can see happening, to be honest, is Shurmur gets fired because Gettleman will convince the owners that coaching was a big reason why the team lost all these games. And the regression of the 2nd year players I think he will blame on coaching. Now, Mara and Tisch might well agree with that assessment, but decide they need to swap out Gettleman too. In order to save face for Gettleman and let him retire, they will point to the following in the spin (which might be true, might not be true) and they will say that Gettleman did the following - Cleared out all the previous long term contracts that Reese had and put the Giants in better shape cap wise going into 2020 - Set the team up with multiple draft picks giving them more flexibility - Found Eli's successor in Daniel Jones, which was a priority - The Giants have talent from the 2018 and 2019 drafts to help build a new foundation that needs proper coaching to take the next step With all that in place, they will say the time is right to find a new group to lead the Giants towards a championship. But any coach/ GM who comes in will probably have to do so with the understanding that Jones is the QB and they have to win with him (ie- no Kingsbury situation with Kyler Murray). Again, you can argue how true those statements are, but I just don't see Mara throwing Gettleman to the curb. I think they will try to give him a gracious exit, but they will throw Shurmur and Bettcher under the bus.

Matt, could absolutely see it playing out that way. All the pieces are there s and it’s logical.

Out of curiosity what do you want to happen

In comment 14716747 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

In comment 14716732 Zeke's Alibi said: Quote: coach picking the GM, unless we give someone institutional control and that would be a huge depertaure from SOP for the Giants. I think that's the point, for the right candidate (and I don't know who that is), I think what Tisch is pushing for is looking changing the way that George Young set up the org in 1978. What I can see happening, to be honest, is Shurmur gets fired because Gettleman will convince the owners that coaching was a big reason why the team lost all these games. And the regression of the 2nd year players I think he will blame on coaching. Now, Mara and Tisch might well agree with that assessment, but decide they need to swap out Gettleman too. In order to save face for Gettleman and let him retire, they will point to the following in the spin (which might be true, might not be true) and they will say that Gettleman did the following - Cleared out all the previous long term contracts that Reese had and put the Giants in better shape cap wise going into 2020 - Set the team up with multiple draft picks giving them more flexibility - Found Eli's successor in Daniel Jones, which was a priority - The Giants have talent from the 2018 and 2019 drafts to help build a new foundation that needs proper coaching to take the next step With all that in place, they will say the time is right to find a new group to lead the Giants towards a championship. But any coach/ GM who comes in will probably have to do so with the understanding that Jones is the QB and they have to win with him (ie- no Kingsbury situation with Kyler Murray). Again, you can argue how true those statements are, but I just don't see Mara throwing Gettleman to the curb. I think they will try to give him a gracious exit, but they will throw Shurmur and Bettcher under the bus.

Yup I could even see them pushing DG to another role within the ORG. Or even just letting DG stay on as GM with the directive that the new HC will have a lot of say in player personnel. For all we know DG would want to work with someone like Rhule.

George young and Dan reeves agreed to work together. Turned out ugly in the end but it has happened here before.

That Gettleman is 70 years old with health problems. Maybe it's time for him to buy a condo in Florida?

.

Mara allies floating giving Gettleman a third year, while canning Shurmur will be a replay of George Young success. Tisch allies are floating the GM/Coach paired firing and paired hiring. Hard to expect anything other than Mara way prevails, but I think Tisch is right.

In no way was I trying to attack you personally. Member of the family was an attempt at a figure of speech sorry if it read differently. Besides Gentleman isn't Jewish anymore anyway but that's an entirely different story.

In comment 14716750 Torrag said:

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You take a ride in a DeLorean with a flux capacitor back to 1992? The professions of journalism and reporting is in disgrace. They've lost all credibility as neutral conduits for facts and truth. The entire industry has been prostituted for a combination of Agenda, clicks and driving traffic to generate revenue.

People still have a tendency to believe what they want anyway. If something is speculated by a journalist that they don't want to hear, they cry 'Agenda! Clickbait!'.

In comment 14716649 81_Great_Dane said:

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but the Tisch side is as much the owner as the Mara side. If they really reach an impasse, where Tisch says "Things have to change, a lot" and Mara says "Change, sure, but only a little, and I keep control," is going to get nasty in a hurry. Neither can act without the other. Tisch can simply refuse to approve anything if it comes to that. Then it gets kind of nasty -- that's the sort of impasse that forced the league to bring George Young to Wellington & Tim Mara.

And here’s the difference: Tisch has fuckloads of money besides the Giants, and the Mara’s only money is from the Giants. Tisch could bury the Maras legally if things get nasty.

Why wouldn’t the owners want to fire Getty and Murmur? It only makes sense.

Prediction will tell us if Jordan Ranaan is Jay Glazer/Adam Scefter level trustworthy or a clown like Norman Chad

In comment 14716902 sb from NYT Forum said:

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In comment 14716649 81_Great_Dane said: Quote: but the Tisch side is as much the owner as the Mara side. If they really reach an impasse, where Tisch says "Things have to change, a lot" and Mara says "Change, sure, but only a little, and I keep control," is going to get nasty in a hurry. Neither can act without the other. Tisch can simply refuse to approve anything if it comes to that. Then it gets kind of nasty -- that's the sort of impasse that forced the league to bring George Young to Wellington & Tim Mara. And here’s the difference: Tisch has fuckloads of money besides the Giants, and the Mara’s only money is from the Giants. Tisch could bury the Maras legally if things get nasty.

I hope the Tisch family does exactly that.

I'm still looking for a reason why giants fans dislike Tisch. I can't think of one thing he's done to be distrusted or disliked. It used to be that he didn't know football, but it's not clear to me that the Maras do either.

In comment 14716882 arniefez said:

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In no way was I trying to attack you personally. Member of the family was an attempt at a figure of speech sorry if it read differently. Besides Gentleman isn't Jewish anymore anyway but that's an entirely different story.

No worries at all. My apologies if I read that wrong.