Common sense tells me the Arizona guys was Betcher. During the draft it was reported that he also love Beal.
Concerning Eli it has never been proven. I just think after the first benching of Eli (McAdoo) and how Mara described the negative letters and media backlash there was no way he was not starting the next year and that he was going to honor his contract.
I think people go to great lengths to try to defend some of Gettleman's performance, but don't realize that either way it's a major concern.
On the one hand - if some of these things were on him, like the assessment of the team in 2018 and the quick fixes to try to turn around the team before he ripped it apart, signing Beckham to trade him, or keeping Eli for his final season after having planned to draft a QB and move on anyway - these are errors that a competent GM should not be making.
On the other - if he was forced to take Shurmur, forced to keep Eli, forced to sign or move Beckham - then although it exonerates Gettleman, it still means the organization is dysfunctional and needs a major departure from their current structure.
I don't doubt the AZ guys were Bettcher - but when you need to extend beyond to guys like Beal and Ogletree, then it just makes it look like Gettleman isn't really doing much of anything.
Common sense tells me the Arizona guys was Betcher. During the draft it was reported that he also love Beal.
Concerning Eli it has never been proven. I just think after the first benching of Eli (McAdoo) and how Mara described the negative letters and media backlash there was no way he was not starting the next year and that he was going to honor his contract.
I think people go to great lengths to try to defend some of Gettleman's performance, but don't realize that either way it's a major concern.
On the one hand - if some of these things were on him, like the assessment of the team in 2018 and the quick fixes to try to turn around the team before he ripped it apart, signing Beckham to trade him, or keeping Eli for his final season after having planned to draft a QB and move on anyway - these are errors that a competent GM should not be making.
On the other - if he was forced to take Shurmur, forced to keep Eli, forced to sign or move Beckham - then although it exonerates Gettleman, it still means the organization is dysfunctional and needs a major departure from their current structure.
I don't doubt the AZ guys were Bettcher - but when you need to extend beyond to guys like Beal and Ogletree, then it just makes it look like Gettleman isn't really doing much of anything.
Agree and this is the great unknown. Beckham also seems to be a Mara/Tisch/Shurmur signing. Do you want a first year Head Coach starting out without his top offensive weapon? Then you have the Marketing and sales impact OBJ had on the bottom line to consider.
Then he popped off with his mouth to the media and also the rumor hear on BBi was he told PS to F off.
Regardless, it is difficult to know who is calling the shots.
That's a silly thing to say - considering Rhule's preference is the Giants but only if he has total control, and Barnwell's article pointed to that relationship as one of the major sticking points for a prospective coach.
To make this happen? Something tells me no. I hope I’m wrong.
You are assuming that this would be the right move and the only move.
Also, the implication is that Rhule won't be interested or in demand for other clubs. People are setting up the narrative that the Giants are failures if they don't get Rhule.
Down here in Jax, it is a forgone conclusion that Doug and his staff are gone. Dave Caldwell is also likely gone. Some want TC gone, but there is the idea that unless he retires, he will survive. When TC was brought on board, Khan snipped Caldwell's balls with his authority and final say. That all went to Coughlin. From the intro press conference where Caldwell was relegated to the end of the table, it gave the optics that Dave was close to out the door then. Rhule has been linked to Jax with the idea that TC would stay and absorb all of Dave's duties mentoring Rhule preparing him to take over full control in future years when TC does retire.
We just failed to find a HC twice. Both were trying to be the HC and OC by calling the plays themselves. Both had very little OC experience (OC) to begin with. Both failed miserably.
Now we want to hire someone who's never been a HC at the pro level. He's never been an OC or DC in the pros. The most he's been at the pro-level is the "assistant" OL coach. He didn't even head up a position group.
This is who many on here want to not only hire as the HC but also allow him the authority of the GM as well?
John Harbaugh had never been a head coach, or an offensive coordinator Â
or a defensive coordinator. His highest level attained at pro or college was special teams coordinator.
Sean McVay had never been a head coach at any level, and had a grand total of 2 years as a coordinator before getting the Rams job.
Bill Arnsparger was a decorated defensive genius under legendary NFL head coaches. Built and coached legendary, elite defenses. Hailed as a great hire for New York. 7-35 as head coach for the Giants.
Pat Shurmur has all the NFL resume you want. Has ears as a successful offensive coordinator under established, excellent head coaches. Coached almost every position group on offenses. Won an assistant coach of the year award. Had years of prior head coaching experience.
There is not one single path to being a successful head coach. Every time you try to predict it, someone else can point to a exception.
Bill Parcells was a head coach in college for one (1) season. He had been a defensive coordinator in the professional level for two (2) seasons. And one season at Army 12 years before that.
Great coaches don't always have these great resumes. And bad coaches sometimes have tons of lower-level experience.
RE: RE: Thought Barnwell said no one wanted to coach the Giants Â
That's a silly thing to say - considering Rhule's preference is the Giants but only if he has total control, and Barnwell's article pointed to that relationship as one of the major sticking points for a prospective coach.
That's a lot of assumptions about what's going on. You think Rhule is uninformed about the Giants FO and GM. He's one of the hottest college coaches out there and still is preferring the "undesirable" Giants (According To Barnwell). You sound like you want the Giants to be undesirable there jcn.
The demand for broad authority seems like a fit with Abrams. Â
Not advocating one way or the other. Just noting that Kevin Abrams doesn’t come from a talent-evaluation or coaching background. So he might be less likely to clash with a coach who wants to steer the grocery-shopping and assemble his own staff.
The main problem with Abrams, in my view, is that a lot of other dead wood is likely to stay if he does, including literal and figurative members of the Mara family.
Not advocating one way or the other. Just noting that Kevin Abrams doesn’t come from a talent-evaluation or coaching background. So he might be less likely to clash with a coach who wants to steer the grocery-shopping and assemble his own staff.
The main problem with Abrams, in my view, is that a lot of other dead wood is likely to stay if he does, including literal and figurative members of the Mara family.
I agree that Abrams would be a good fit as GM under a coach that once player authority.
I disagree that somehow Abrams is ahead of chris Mara in the org and would stay if he stays.
Bill Parcells was a head coach in college for one (1) season. He had been a defensive coordinator in the professional level for two (2) seasons. And one season at Army 12 years before that.
Great coaches don't always have these great resumes. And bad coaches sometimes have tons of lower-level experience.
It took a while for Parcells to become the coach we remember. His first year was a disaster, and there were plenty of bumps in the road after that. His only Giant team that really over-achieved was the last one. I was much more impressed by his work in New England, and with the Jets.
RE: RE: RE: Thought Barnwell said no one wanted to coach the Giants Â
That's a lot of assumptions about what's going on. You think Rhule is uninformed about the Giants FO and GM. He's one of the hottest college coaches out there and still is preferring the "undesirable" Giants (According To Barnwell). You sound like you want the Giants to be undesirable there jcn.
Wait - onto a thread with an article regarding Rhule, where he's rumored to *want* the Giants but expects near-total authority, you think *I'm* the one making assumptions about what he wants or doesn't want?
You made a silly post about how this article proves Barnwell wrong. It's exactly the opposite - the control that Rhule is rumored to want would counter what Barnwell said was undesirable about the Giants.
If you wanted to poke holes, you could say that these guys are wrong about what Rhule expects. But any logical or reasonable person sees that this article aligns perfectly with Barnwell's.
Are we talking about organizational structure, picking the GM, personnel decisions? Or just the ability to pick his own assistants which any head coach should be able to do?
As far as Rhule as a whole, you take a gamble on anyone you bring in. Remember Bill Belichik hadn't won a Super Bowl until he got to New England, Shawn Payton was fired by Jim Fassell for not being a good play caller (was really a scape goat) and Mike Tomlin was all but unheard of.
There is no guarantee any coach will work out, but in my mind the one thing that seems to translate is winning. Rhule has won wherever he went, even if the situations were bad. I've watched Baylor play a few times this year, his teams are tough and his players seem to play their butts off each week. Give me that for the Giant!
guy was born in NYC and grew up there, worked under Coughlin, is 44 years old and has an excellent track record as a program builder, leader, and play caller. Also seems to be universally well liked and respected by all. Not sure why we wouldn't hire this guy. It's almost perfect.
And I have no problem with Rhule hiring his staff including his own GM/personnel guy. Sometimes people act like this shit is more complicated than it is - it’s only football. He’s been a football coach his whole life. There’s nothing special about the NFL, major college football is every bit as competitive, strategic, etc.
This is a guy who has been head coach, running programs and all that entails. I think he’d be a great choice.
I am also almost certain it’ll be Dave Gettleman and his buddy Ron Rivera doing Grownups 2 instead of the crazy idea of hiring a young guy with a good resume and letting him build.
To make this happen? Something tells me no. I hope I’m wrong.
You are assuming that this would be the right move and the only move.
Also, the implication is that Rhule won't be interested or in demand for other clubs. People are setting up the narrative that the Giants are failures if they don't get Rhule.
Down here in Jax, it is a forgone conclusion that Doug and his staff are gone. Dave Caldwell is also likely gone. Some want TC gone, but there is the idea that unless he retires, he will survive. When TC was brought on board, Khan snipped Caldwell's balls with his authority and final say. That all went to Coughlin. From the intro press conference where Caldwell was relegated to the end of the table, it gave the optics that Dave was close to out the door then. Rhule has been linked to Jax with the idea that TC would stay and absorb all of Dave's duties mentoring Rhule preparing him to take over full control in future years when TC does retire.
Definitely could see him in Jax. I thought TC would be asked to retire but I guess we'll see.
Mainly because there isn't a whole lot of precedent for a college coach with virtually no NFL experience (Rhule didn't play in the league and spent all of one season as the Giants assistant OL coach) succeeding big in the NFL. Jimmy Johnson is the only one I can think of, and his college career dwarfs Rhule's.
However, the prospect of him having near total control is a damned sight more palatable than Mr. Magoo and Ron Rivera.
speculating based on what happened between Rhule and the Jets but wanting to pick your own coaching staff and "total control" are pretty different. I assume the only HC in the NFL with complete and total control is Little Bill.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Thought Barnwell said no one wanted to coach the Giants Â
That's a lot of assumptions about what's going on. You think Rhule is uninformed about the Giants FO and GM. He's one of the hottest college coaches out there and still is preferring the "undesirable" Giants (According To Barnwell). You sound like you want the Giants to be undesirable there jcn.
Wait - onto a thread with an article regarding Rhule, where he's rumored to *want* the Giants but expects near-total authority, you think *I'm* the one making assumptions about what he wants or doesn't want?
You made a silly post about how this article proves Barnwell wrong. It's exactly the opposite - the control that Rhule is rumored to want would counter what Barnwell said was undesirable about the Giants.
If you wanted to poke holes, you could say that these guys are wrong about what Rhule expects. But any logical or reasonable person sees that this article aligns perfectly with Barnwell's.
So, a logical person would see that maybe the hottest college coach out there, with you would think multiple choices, would want the "least desirable" NFL franchise. You must have a different definition of logical than most.
RE: RE: The demand for broad authority seems like a fit with Abrams. Â
Not advocating one way or the other. Just noting that Kevin Abrams doesn’t come from a talent-evaluation or coaching background. So he might be less likely to clash with a coach who wants to steer the grocery-shopping and assemble his own staff.
The main problem with Abrams, in my view, is that a lot of other dead wood is likely to stay if he does, including literal and figurative members of the Mara family.
I agree that Abrams would be a good fit as GM under a coach that once player authority.
I disagree that somehow Abrams is ahead of chris Mara in the org and would stay if he stays.
So you wouldn’t mind a guy who has been inside this organization for twenty years being exposed to this endless nonsense?
Abrams is the absolute LAST person anyone should want. With him you have to assume it’s going to be more of the same...
speculating based on what happened between Rhule and the Jets but wanting to pick your own coaching staff and "total control" are pretty different. I assume the only HC in the NFL with complete and total control is Little Bill.
Andy Reid is another. Brett Veach holds the GM title, but he was a former Reid coaching intern and Eagles scout who followed Reid to KC, so you don't have to read between the lines too closely to see who has the power there.
Supposedly Kyle Shanahan is the one who selected John Lynch, not vice-versa, and I've heard people say Pete Carroll has the ultimate authority in Seattle. Don't know how true it is in either case.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Thought Barnwell said no one wanted to coach the Giants Â
So, a logical person would see that maybe the hottest college coach out there, with you would think multiple choices, would want the "least desirable" NFL franchise. You must have a different definition of logical than most.
No, because the article says he'd want them IF he has (quoting directly) -> "near-total authority".
Barnwell identified them as less desirable because the incoming coach would have LESS AUTHORITY.
So with that constraint removed, they're no longer less desirable.
I'm not really sure how that's unreasonable or hard to understand in any way. It's the same as if the Cowboys, who you claimed were less desirable because of Jerry Jones, were to suddenly be sold and Jones was no longer involved in operations. Wouldn't that make a pretty big difference in how someone views that spot?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Thought Barnwell said no one wanted to coach the Giants Â
So, a logical person would see that maybe the hottest college coach out there, with you would think multiple choices, would want the "least desirable" NFL franchise. You must have a different definition of logical than most.
No, because the article says he'd want them IF he has (quoting directly) -> "near-total authority".
Barnwell identified them as less desirable because the incoming coach would have LESS AUTHORITY.
So with that constraint removed, they're no longer less desirable.
I'm not really sure how that's unreasonable or hard to understand in any way. It's the same as if the Cowboys, who you claimed were less desirable because of Jerry Jones, were to suddenly be sold and Jones was no longer involved in operations. Wouldn't that make a pretty big difference in how someone views that spot?
The bottom line here is Rhule's preference for the Giants blows up both Barnwell's article and your position about the Giants desirability along with it. Thus, you have to find some way to explain away the obvious contradiction.
absolutely be in lockstep as to the type of team that they want to build. The HC should have the final word, in cooperation with the GM, as to which players are drafted, FAs signed, cut, etc. However, the GM should be able to decide what acceptable salary is with regard to FAs and while the HC may want a player, if the salary demand is outside of the acceptable limit, the GM should have final word.. The GM is not the coach and rarely has HC experience or even coordinator experience. The GM is the business guy. At no time should the GM be deciding who the HC wants on his field staff except as to background check and salary. If the GM is not a strong talent evaluator he should not be considered for the GM position.
IMHO, the onus of choosing personnel should mainly and ultimately be on the HC(except for excessive salary demands).
As opposed to YOU, who's been railing against the current HC/GM since day 1, and is unashamed to beat that drum on every possible thread, day after day, month after month? If you don't think your harangues don't get old, I have news for you..........they're tiresome.
Some want TC gone, but there is the idea that unless he retires, he will survive.
Why on earth would he survive? Jacksonville's gotten worse the longer he's been there.
He certainly deserves to be asked to "retire". But he has a built in fall guy in Caldwell. I was surprised then when TC was named VP of Football Operation that Caldwell was retained. Caldwell should have been fired then. As far as the performance on the field, they have been the most undisciplined team that I have seen. From fighting, player ejections, mindless penalties such as offsides/false starts, to the Ramsay incidents over the years culminating with him going after the coaching staff on the sidelines. That falls on the coaching staff and really is a surprise as Doug Marrone was brought in to restore discipline as Gus Bradley before was deemed to friendly with the players. Ultimately, the buck stops with TC so he shouldn't stay. But the speculation on the local news is that if he doesn't retire, then he'll get another bite of the apple. The Rhule speculation is just the 2+2 logic.
My point is that even though the OP's article says Rhule's preference is NYG, he will have plenty of options. We like to hold the Giants franchise as some model of excellence, but the reality is that there are more attractive options available.
We just failed to find a HC twice. Both were trying to be the HC and OC by calling the plays themselves. Both had very little OC experience (OC) to begin with. Both failed miserably.
Now we want to hire someone who's never been a HC at the pro level. He's never been an OC or DC in the pros. The most he's been at the pro-level is the "assistant" OL coach. He didn't even head up a position group.
This is who many on here want to not only hire as the HC but also allow him the authority of the GM as well?
A head coach, more than anything else, needs to be a leader of men and to be able to set a tone and expectations for everyone else on the staff and the roster. He also needs to be able to delegate to quality assistants with whom he's comfortable and who align with his coaching philosophies.
My point is that even though the OP's article says Rhule's preference is NYG, he will have plenty of options. We like to hold the Giants franchise as some model of excellence, but the reality is that there are more attractive options available.
And the recurring theme to keep in mind - it says it's his preference provided he has 'near-total authority' on personnel. Are the Giants likely to give him that?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are the Giants smart enough Â
My point is that even though the OP's article says Rhule's preference is NYG, he will have plenty of options. We like to hold the Giants franchise as some model of excellence, but the reality is that there are more attractive options available.
And the recurring theme to keep in mind - it says it's his preference provided he has 'near-total authority' on personnel. Are the Giants likely to give him that?
I wouldn't think so nor do I think any team will give him near-total authority. Everyone agrees that a HC has every right to choose his staff. The question is whether a college HC deserves to captain the entire ship. If Saban comes through the door, well fine. If Lil Bill comes through the door, of course. Despite his success with Temple/Baylor, I don't see any team giving full autonomy to a Rhule.
RE: RE: Something tells me that even if the Giants Â
As opposed to YOU, who's been railing against the current HC/GM since day 1, and is unashamed to beat that drum on every possible thread, day after day, month after month? If you don't think your harangues don't get old, I have news for you..........they're tiresome.
Gettleman and Shurmur being bad at their jobs isn't a spun narrative. It's just the truth, like saying the sky is blue.
Incredibly there are still a lot of posters telling us Gettleman is doing a good job. They think the sky is green.
I have no idea how people continue to defend Shurmur and Â
Rhule is my first choice. Giants better be really fucking smart here. If they love this guy, and he checks A LOT of boxes, don’t get too cute. Let rhule hire his own staff. Give the guy what he wants and be done with it.
Agreed
RE: RE: RE: Where's FatMan to tell us it's a narrative Â
As opposed to YOU, who's been railing against the current HC/GM since day 1, and is unashamed to beat that drum on every possible thread, day after day, month after month? If you don't think your harangues don't get old, I have news for you..........they're tiresome.
Gettleman and Shurmur being bad at their jobs isn't a spun narrative. It's just the truth, like saying the sky is blue.
Incredibly there are still a lot of posters telling us Gettleman is doing a good job. They think the sky is green.
Well, to be fair, before a really bad storm where all hell is breaks loose, the sky often turns green.
But then again, that is an apt description of where this team is!
Concerning Eli it has never been proven. I just think after the first benching of Eli (McAdoo) and how Mara described the negative letters and media backlash there was no way he was not starting the next year and that he was going to honor his contract.
I think people go to great lengths to try to defend some of Gettleman's performance, but don't realize that either way it's a major concern.
On the one hand - if some of these things were on him, like the assessment of the team in 2018 and the quick fixes to try to turn around the team before he ripped it apart, signing Beckham to trade him, or keeping Eli for his final season after having planned to draft a QB and move on anyway - these are errors that a competent GM should not be making.
On the other - if he was forced to take Shurmur, forced to keep Eli, forced to sign or move Beckham - then although it exonerates Gettleman, it still means the organization is dysfunctional and needs a major departure from their current structure.
I don't doubt the AZ guys were Bettcher - but when you need to extend beyond to guys like Beal and Ogletree, then it just makes it look like Gettleman isn't really doing much of anything.
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Common sense tells me the Arizona guys was Betcher. During the draft it was reported that he also love Beal.
Concerning Eli it has never been proven. I just think after the first benching of Eli (McAdoo) and how Mara described the negative letters and media backlash there was no way he was not starting the next year and that he was going to honor his contract.
I think people go to great lengths to try to defend some of Gettleman's performance, but don't realize that either way it's a major concern.
On the one hand - if some of these things were on him, like the assessment of the team in 2018 and the quick fixes to try to turn around the team before he ripped it apart, signing Beckham to trade him, or keeping Eli for his final season after having planned to draft a QB and move on anyway - these are errors that a competent GM should not be making.
On the other - if he was forced to take Shurmur, forced to keep Eli, forced to sign or move Beckham - then although it exonerates Gettleman, it still means the organization is dysfunctional and needs a major departure from their current structure.
I don't doubt the AZ guys were Bettcher - but when you need to extend beyond to guys like Beal and Ogletree, then it just makes it look like Gettleman isn't really doing much of anything.
Agree and this is the great unknown. Beckham also seems to be a Mara/Tisch/Shurmur signing. Do you want a first year Head Coach starting out without his top offensive weapon? Then you have the Marketing and sales impact OBJ had on the bottom line to consider.
Then he popped off with his mouth to the media and also the rumor hear on BBi was he told PS to F off.
Regardless, it is difficult to know who is calling the shots.
You are assuming that this would be the right move and the only move.
Also, what were Shurmurs ties to the Giants? He didn’t have any. That’s worked out well...
That's a silly thing to say - considering Rhule's preference is the Giants but only if he has total control, and Barnwell's article pointed to that relationship as one of the major sticking points for a prospective coach.
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To make this happen? Something tells me no. I hope I’m wrong.
You are assuming that this would be the right move and the only move.
Also, the implication is that Rhule won't be interested or in demand for other clubs. People are setting up the narrative that the Giants are failures if they don't get Rhule.
Down here in Jax, it is a forgone conclusion that Doug and his staff are gone. Dave Caldwell is also likely gone. Some want TC gone, but there is the idea that unless he retires, he will survive. When TC was brought on board, Khan snipped Caldwell's balls with his authority and final say. That all went to Coughlin. From the intro press conference where Caldwell was relegated to the end of the table, it gave the optics that Dave was close to out the door then. Rhule has been linked to Jax with the idea that TC would stay and absorb all of Dave's duties mentoring Rhule preparing him to take over full control in future years when TC does retire.
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don't see the Giants hiring Rhule. His buyout from Baylor is enormous IIRC.
Buyout for a college team is 30 million. It’s been reported that a NFL Buyout is extremely low and won’t be an issue.
OK. But it still seems like the kind of bold move that a traditionally stodgy organization like the Giants would avoid.
Now we want to hire someone who's never been a HC at the pro level. He's never been an OC or DC in the pros. The most he's been at the pro-level is the "assistant" OL coach. He didn't even head up a position group.
This is who many on here want to not only hire as the HC but also allow him the authority of the GM as well?
Sean McVay had never been a head coach at any level, and had a grand total of 2 years as a coordinator before getting the Rams job.
Bill Arnsparger was a decorated defensive genius under legendary NFL head coaches. Built and coached legendary, elite defenses. Hailed as a great hire for New York. 7-35 as head coach for the Giants.
Pat Shurmur has all the NFL resume you want. Has ears as a successful offensive coordinator under established, excellent head coaches. Coached almost every position group on offenses. Won an assistant coach of the year award. Had years of prior head coaching experience.
There is not one single path to being a successful head coach. Every time you try to predict it, someone else can point to a exception.
Great coaches don't always have these great resumes. And bad coaches sometimes have tons of lower-level experience.
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Gee. That didn’t last long.
That's a silly thing to say - considering Rhule's preference is the Giants but only if he has total control, and Barnwell's article pointed to that relationship as one of the major sticking points for a prospective coach.
That's a lot of assumptions about what's going on. You think Rhule is uninformed about the Giants FO and GM. He's one of the hottest college coaches out there and still is preferring the "undesirable" Giants (According To Barnwell). You sound like you want the Giants to be undesirable there jcn.
The main problem with Abrams, in my view, is that a lot of other dead wood is likely to stay if he does, including literal and figurative members of the Mara family.
The main problem with Abrams, in my view, is that a lot of other dead wood is likely to stay if he does, including literal and figurative members of the Mara family.
I agree that Abrams would be a good fit as GM under a coach that once player authority.
I disagree that somehow Abrams is ahead of chris Mara in the org and would stay if he stays.
Great coaches don't always have these great resumes. And bad coaches sometimes have tons of lower-level experience.
That's a lot of assumptions about what's going on. You think Rhule is uninformed about the Giants FO and GM. He's one of the hottest college coaches out there and still is preferring the "undesirable" Giants (According To Barnwell). You sound like you want the Giants to be undesirable there jcn.
Wait - onto a thread with an article regarding Rhule, where he's rumored to *want* the Giants but expects near-total authority, you think *I'm* the one making assumptions about what he wants or doesn't want?
You made a silly post about how this article proves Barnwell wrong. It's exactly the opposite - the control that Rhule is rumored to want would counter what Barnwell said was undesirable about the Giants.
If you wanted to poke holes, you could say that these guys are wrong about what Rhule expects. But any logical or reasonable person sees that this article aligns perfectly with Barnwell's.
As far as Rhule as a whole, you take a gamble on anyone you bring in. Remember Bill Belichik hadn't won a Super Bowl until he got to New England, Shawn Payton was fired by Jim Fassell for not being a good play caller (was really a scape goat) and Mike Tomlin was all but unheard of.
There is no guarantee any coach will work out, but in my mind the one thing that seems to translate is winning. Rhule has won wherever he went, even if the situations were bad. I've watched Baylor play a few times this year, his teams are tough and his players seem to play their butts off each week. Give me that for the Giant!
Why on earth would he survive? Jacksonville's gotten worse the longer he's been there.
This is a guy who has been head coach, running programs and all that entails. I think he’d be a great choice.
I am also almost certain it’ll be Dave Gettleman and his buddy Ron Rivera doing Grownups 2 instead of the crazy idea of hiring a young guy with a good resume and letting him build.
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In comment 14716995 5BowlsSoon said:
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To make this happen? Something tells me no. I hope I’m wrong.
You are assuming that this would be the right move and the only move.
Also, the implication is that Rhule won't be interested or in demand for other clubs. People are setting up the narrative that the Giants are failures if they don't get Rhule.
Down here in Jax, it is a forgone conclusion that Doug and his staff are gone. Dave Caldwell is also likely gone. Some want TC gone, but there is the idea that unless he retires, he will survive. When TC was brought on board, Khan snipped Caldwell's balls with his authority and final say. That all went to Coughlin. From the intro press conference where Caldwell was relegated to the end of the table, it gave the optics that Dave was close to out the door then. Rhule has been linked to Jax with the idea that TC would stay and absorb all of Dave's duties mentoring Rhule preparing him to take over full control in future years when TC does retire.
Definitely could see him in Jax. I thought TC would be asked to retire but I guess we'll see.
However, the prospect of him having near total control is a damned sight more palatable than Mr. Magoo and Ron Rivera.
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That's a lot of assumptions about what's going on. You think Rhule is uninformed about the Giants FO and GM. He's one of the hottest college coaches out there and still is preferring the "undesirable" Giants (According To Barnwell). You sound like you want the Giants to be undesirable there jcn.
Wait - onto a thread with an article regarding Rhule, where he's rumored to *want* the Giants but expects near-total authority, you think *I'm* the one making assumptions about what he wants or doesn't want?
You made a silly post about how this article proves Barnwell wrong. It's exactly the opposite - the control that Rhule is rumored to want would counter what Barnwell said was undesirable about the Giants.
If you wanted to poke holes, you could say that these guys are wrong about what Rhule expects. But any logical or reasonable person sees that this article aligns perfectly with Barnwell's.
So, a logical person would see that maybe the hottest college coach out there, with you would think multiple choices, would want the "least desirable" NFL franchise. You must have a different definition of logical than most.
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Not advocating one way or the other. Just noting that Kevin Abrams doesn’t come from a talent-evaluation or coaching background. So he might be less likely to clash with a coach who wants to steer the grocery-shopping and assemble his own staff.
The main problem with Abrams, in my view, is that a lot of other dead wood is likely to stay if he does, including literal and figurative members of the Mara family.
I agree that Abrams would be a good fit as GM under a coach that once player authority.
I disagree that somehow Abrams is ahead of chris Mara in the org and would stay if he stays.
So you wouldn’t mind a guy who has been inside this organization for twenty years being exposed to this endless nonsense?
Abrams is the absolute LAST person anyone should want. With him you have to assume it’s going to be more of the same...
Andy Reid is another. Brett Veach holds the GM title, but he was a former Reid coaching intern and Eagles scout who followed Reid to KC, so you don't have to read between the lines too closely to see who has the power there.
Supposedly Kyle Shanahan is the one who selected John Lynch, not vice-versa, and I've heard people say Pete Carroll has the ultimate authority in Seattle. Don't know how true it is in either case.
So, a logical person would see that maybe the hottest college coach out there, with you would think multiple choices, would want the "least desirable" NFL franchise. You must have a different definition of logical than most.
No, because the article says he'd want them IF he has (quoting directly) -> "near-total authority".
Barnwell identified them as less desirable because the incoming coach would have LESS AUTHORITY.
So with that constraint removed, they're no longer less desirable.
I'm not really sure how that's unreasonable or hard to understand in any way. It's the same as if the Cowboys, who you claimed were less desirable because of Jerry Jones, were to suddenly be sold and Jones was no longer involved in operations. Wouldn't that make a pretty big difference in how someone views that spot?
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So, a logical person would see that maybe the hottest college coach out there, with you would think multiple choices, would want the "least desirable" NFL franchise. You must have a different definition of logical than most.
No, because the article says he'd want them IF he has (quoting directly) -> "near-total authority".
Barnwell identified them as less desirable because the incoming coach would have LESS AUTHORITY.
So with that constraint removed, they're no longer less desirable.
I'm not really sure how that's unreasonable or hard to understand in any way. It's the same as if the Cowboys, who you claimed were less desirable because of Jerry Jones, were to suddenly be sold and Jones was no longer involved in operations. Wouldn't that make a pretty big difference in how someone views that spot?
The bottom line here is Rhule's preference for the Giants blows up both Barnwell's article and your position about the Giants desirability along with it. Thus, you have to find some way to explain away the obvious contradiction.
Much appreciated.
IMHO, the onus of choosing personnel should mainly and ultimately be on the HC(except for excessive salary demands).
Thank you.
But looking at Rhule's resume...there is no comparison to successful HC in the NFL today.
It would be like finding a needle in a haystack and basically fly in the face of all of the pro analytics people.
As opposed to YOU, who's been railing against the current HC/GM since day 1, and is unashamed to beat that drum on every possible thread, day after day, month after month? If you don't think your harangues don't get old, I have news for you..........they're tiresome.
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Some want TC gone, but there is the idea that unless he retires, he will survive.
Why on earth would he survive? Jacksonville's gotten worse the longer he's been there.
He certainly deserves to be asked to "retire". But he has a built in fall guy in Caldwell. I was surprised then when TC was named VP of Football Operation that Caldwell was retained. Caldwell should have been fired then. As far as the performance on the field, they have been the most undisciplined team that I have seen. From fighting, player ejections, mindless penalties such as offsides/false starts, to the Ramsay incidents over the years culminating with him going after the coaching staff on the sidelines. That falls on the coaching staff and really is a surprise as Doug Marrone was brought in to restore discipline as Gus Bradley before was deemed to friendly with the players. Ultimately, the buck stops with TC so he shouldn't stay. But the speculation on the local news is that if he doesn't retire, then he'll get another bite of the apple. The Rhule speculation is just the 2+2 logic.
My point is that even though the OP's article says Rhule's preference is NYG, he will have plenty of options. We like to hold the Giants franchise as some model of excellence, but the reality is that there are more attractive options available.
Now we want to hire someone who's never been a HC at the pro level. He's never been an OC or DC in the pros. The most he's been at the pro-level is the "assistant" OL coach. He didn't even head up a position group.
This is who many on here want to not only hire as the HC but also allow him the authority of the GM as well?
A head coach, more than anything else, needs to be a leader of men and to be able to set a tone and expectations for everyone else on the staff and the roster. He also needs to be able to delegate to quality assistants with whom he's comfortable and who align with his coaching philosophies.
My point is that even though the OP's article says Rhule's preference is NYG, he will have plenty of options. We like to hold the Giants franchise as some model of excellence, but the reality is that there are more attractive options available.
And the recurring theme to keep in mind - it says it's his preference provided he has 'near-total authority' on personnel. Are the Giants likely to give him that?
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My point is that even though the OP's article says Rhule's preference is NYG, he will have plenty of options. We like to hold the Giants franchise as some model of excellence, but the reality is that there are more attractive options available.
And the recurring theme to keep in mind - it says it's his preference provided he has 'near-total authority' on personnel. Are the Giants likely to give him that?
I wouldn't think so nor do I think any team will give him near-total authority. Everyone agrees that a HC has every right to choose his staff. The question is whether a college HC deserves to captain the entire ship. If Saban comes through the door, well fine. If Lil Bill comes through the door, of course. Despite his success with Temple/Baylor, I don't see any team giving full autonomy to a Rhule.
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went outside their typical way of thinking and went all in on a guy like Rhule...both bw and Terps would find something to criticize.
Yeah, because those guys have been unfairly criticizing the Giants, everything the team has been doing the past few years just makes total sense.
I wonder if Matt Rhule sat and listened when Accorsi told those Bert Jones stories, because that's probably on their checklist.
Point missed.
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As opposed to YOU, who's been railing against the current HC/GM since day 1, and is unashamed to beat that drum on every possible thread, day after day, month after month? If you don't think your harangues don't get old, I have news for you..........they're tiresome.
Gettleman and Shurmur being bad at their jobs isn't a spun narrative. It's just the truth, like saying the sky is blue.
Incredibly there are still a lot of posters telling us Gettleman is doing a good job. They think the sky is green.
We need to clean house.
Agreed
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In comment 14716778 Go Terps said:
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As opposed to YOU, who's been railing against the current HC/GM since day 1, and is unashamed to beat that drum on every possible thread, day after day, month after month? If you don't think your harangues don't get old, I have news for you..........they're tiresome.
Gettleman and Shurmur being bad at their jobs isn't a spun narrative. It's just the truth, like saying the sky is blue.
Incredibly there are still a lot of posters telling us Gettleman is doing a good job. They think the sky is green.
Well, to be fair, before a really bad storm where all hell is breaks loose, the sky often turns green.
But then again, that is an apt description of where this team is!