We’ve seen plenty of phenoms over the years, but through 14 games, Lamar Jackson is over 1,100 yards rushing (and nearly 7ypc), 7 rushing. TDs, and 33 passing TDs. At age 22. Trying to think of a comparably dominant offensive season ....
Who knows how long he’ll last, but this is pretty spectacular. I remember scoffing after he got beat by the Chargers ... guess I got that one wrong.
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you could easily attribute all of the bullet points to being nearly identical to the way the Giants conduct business.
There was no crazy innovation. No hot young candidate of GM/HC neccessary. They just stayed the course, kept Harbaugh for stability and continuity, and promoted their next GM from within.
The big difference is that the Ravens in 2018 were nearly in as bad shape roster wise as the Giants heading into 2018 as the jumping off point. The Ravens got it turned around and we didn't....
Are you high?
Are you suggesting the Roman and Harbaugh didn’t completely revamp their offense to fit LJax’s game?
The Ravens under Harbaugh have had ONE losing season in twelve years as HC. They have been considerably more stable than our house on stilts. They had one similar problem - they held on to a failing QB too long. That’s the only comparison.
Don't deflect. I'm not talking about what they're doing now. It's amazing. Incredible job by Harbaugh and Roman.
I'm talking about how they go there/here.
If I replaced the key players in that PC with the names Mara, Reese, Gettleman, and Eli....
It would have been a Giants Way press conference to the letter of the law. All the things you rail against.
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Letting him keep his coordinators.
Promoting their GM from within.
What am I missing?
Add keeping their franchise QB on the roster....
my point was the Ravens have been far more successful from a winning % standpoint over the past several years so challenging how they run their business versus the Giants would be a brave comparison...
If Jackson was on a team with Barkley, he would be even more effective. Jackson makes Gus Edwards (rookie FA in 2018) average 5.2 YPC in his 2 year career. Barkley would bust through these holes Jackson creates for long run after long run.
Keep the 2.
KWALL2 : 2/2/2018 1:34 pm : link
Draft Barkley.
Trade up for Jackson.
Run the spread.
Score lots of points.
All you have to do is run the spread you see in high schools now. It doesn’t take a coaching genius to make this call. Adapt to the player.
Barkley and Jackson together would put up more point and be a much tougher team to defend then Jackson with Ingram/Edwards.
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In comment 14717107 Britt in VA said:
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Letting him keep his coordinators.
Promoting their GM from within.
What am I missing?
Add keeping their franchise QB on the roster....
my point was the Ravens have been far more successful from a winning % standpoint over the past several years so challenging how they run their business versus the Giants would be a brave comparison...
They have been more successful at drafting and providing talent. That's the difference. Ozzie Newsome didn't get fired for poor drafting at the end of 2017 like our GM did. He had kept the cupboard stocked.
However, the Ravens were at a crossroads at the start of 2018. They didn't blow it all up, they stayed the course. The Giants... ahem, Ravens Way.
If Jackson was on a team with Barkley, he would be even more effective. Jackson makes Gus Edwards (rookie FA in 2018) average 5.2 YPC in his 2 year career. Barkley would bust through these holes Jackson creates for long run after long run.
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Keep the 2.
KWALL2 : 2/2/2018 1:34 pm : link
Draft Barkley.
Trade up for Jackson.
Run the spread.
Score lots of points.
All you have to do is run the spread you see in high schools now. It doesn’t take a coaching genius to make this call. Adapt to the player.
Barkley and Jackson together would put up more point and be a much tougher team to defend then Jackson with Ingram/Edwards.
"Monumental disaster" is a direct quote.
You overstate how unstable they were, and understate what a real abyss Giants were in...
You overstate how unstable they were, and understate what a real abyss Giants were in...
At what point do you just get tired of dropping truth bombs? I don't understand how people can't see the trainwreck this franchise has been in.
And he'd also still have a job, like Newsome did.
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they made their adjustments and moved along merrily.
You overstate how unstable they were, and understate what a real abyss Giants were in...
At what point do you just get tired of dropping truth bombs? I don't understand how people can't see the trainwreck this franchise has been in.
its the cross I have to bear as an objective poster...
:-)
The monumental disaster was the team building around Barkley. He was an MVP type player in year 1. Not close to a disaster despite the current state of the team.
its a talent issue in the office and as a result on the field...
The monumental disaster was the team building around Barkley. He was an MVP type player in year 1. Not close to a disaster despite the current state of the team.
Agreed.
And he'd also still have a job, like Newsome did.
um...so what? And if someone put some shinewax on Tyree's helmet we would have one less Super Bowl trophy.
Giants wouldn't know how to use Jackson. They don't even know how to use Saquon.
Remind me - what did Eli Manning do in his first playoff game?
whoa...doesn't matter at all?
Yes, everybody likes playoff success but you gotta' get there first...
He will be the MVP this year.
He is not RGIII.
He will stay in the top tier of QBs for his entire career.
I said at the time of the 18 draft he would be the beat QB in that class. Now I say he will annually be in the running for MVP of the league. BBI can say I'm living in the moment, and I say you doubters are haters. Strictly.
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we'd be in a much better situation than we are today.
And he'd also still have a job, like Newsome did.
um...so what? And if someone put some shinewax on Tyree's helmet we would have one less Super Bowl trophy.
Not even remotely comparable to the topic at hand, and you know that (I think).
The bottom line is the way of doing business. The philosophy of continuity. The philosophy of hiring within. They are the same among the Giants and Ravens. They both stayed the course.
The main difference is their GM kept the cupboard stocked and ours didn't. When you boil it all down, that's what happened. And here we are.
It's not about the Giants being stuck in some timewarp of a business model that doesn't work anymore. They just need more talent on the roster. Their GM retired on his own this season for a job well done. Ours got fired two years ago for a job poorly done.
That's the difference. That's it. No Giants Way conspiracy, no all in for Eli conspiracy, no loyal to a fault conspiracy.
One GM got it done, and one didn't. The end. CNN can go home now.
That's far too simple a measurement system.
Peyton Manning is 14-13 all time in playoffs.
Jim Kelly is 9-8
Dan Fouts is 3-4
Dan Marino is 8-10
Playing in Petrinos offense definitely had a major impact on why he’s been such a good passer especially in the red zone
God bless you man, you're never a dull read.
The Ravens had a strong reason to stay the course because they were winning.
Now, they weren't winning enough games to be where they wanted to be - competing for SBs, and largely because they were too loyal to Flacco - but they also weren't posting double digit losses in back to back to back seasons.
They have a hall of fame coach and just had their hall of fame GM retire after he so brilliantly stocked their shelves for 20 years.
The only similarity between the Giants and the Ravens these days is they are both two syllable words...
There are trends and changes in sports — remember when 7 footers only played in the post? Now most every 7 footer is shooting 3s. Imperfect analogy, but wonder whether Lamar’s early success will cause old school guys (like Bill Polian) to rethink how you scout guys.
Unicorn or trend?
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In comment 14717168 Britt in VA said:
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we'd be in a much better situation than we are today.
And he'd also still have a job, like Newsome did.
um...so what? And if someone put some shinewax on Tyree's helmet we would have one less Super Bowl trophy.
Not even remotely comparable to the topic at hand, and you know that (I think).
The bottom line is the way of doing business. The philosophy of continuity. The philosophy of hiring within. They are the same among the Giants and Ravens. They both stayed the course.
The main difference is their GM kept the cupboard stocked and ours didn't. When you boil it all down, that's what happened. And here we are.
It's not about the Giants being stuck in some timewarp of a business model that doesn't work anymore. They just need more talent on the roster. Their GM retired on his own this season for a job well done. Ours got fired two years ago for a job poorly done.
That's the difference. That's it. No Giants Way conspiracy, no all in for Eli conspiracy, no loyal to a fault conspiracy.
One GM got it done, and one didn't. The end. CNN can go home now.
Man, you and i absolutely have to go out drinking one of these days. There is no way we possibly can have this many differences in how we think about our NY Giants...
The only similarity between the Giants and the Ravens these days is they are both two syllable words...
i laughed at this...
There are trends and changes in sports — remember when 7 footers only played in the post? Now most every 7 footer is shooting 3s. Imperfect analogy, but wonder whether Lamar’s early success will cause old school guys (like Bill Polian) to rethink how you scout guys.
Unicorn or trend?
He's going to be hard to replicate. It's not just because he's an insane athlete. His football IQ and decisionmaking has been under-sold since the draft. He's not just an athlete playing QB and running around. Sometime between his Heisman season and the NFL draft people forgot that he was one of the most decorated offensive players in college football history.
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Lamar Jackson is still 0-1 in the playoffs. He's been outstanding. As a franchise quarterback draft pick, to me the valid measurement is only playoff success. If he doesn't do it in he playoffs, none of the regular season dominance matters at all.
Remind me - what did Eli Manning do in his first playoff game?
I wasn't aware we were talking about Eli. I didn't say Lamar would stay that way. I'm commenting on the posters saying that obviously this is settled. The people that didn't want Lamar (myself included), had several for not wanting him. One of those was durability and his play style not translating to postseason success. The hype about Vick was insane, but he failed in the playoffs. What I'm saying is that there seems to be a lot of crowing for a guy who has no postseason accomplishments yet.
BTW I didn't want Eli, either, I wanted Roethlisberger.
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The trend being, putting the best athlete on the field at QB, and building the scheme around that athleticism?
There are trends and changes in sports — remember when 7 footers only played in the post? Now most every 7 footer is shooting 3s. Imperfect analogy, but wonder whether Lamar’s early success will cause old school guys (like Bill Polian) to rethink how you scout guys.
Unicorn or trend?
He's going to be hard to replicate. It's not just because he's an insane athlete. His football IQ and decisionmaking has been under-sold since the draft. He's not just an athlete playing QB and running around. Sometime between his Heisman season and the NFL draft people forgot that he was one of the most decorated offensive players in college football history.
I tend to agree with you TTH. My only pause is, in past failed scrambler QB situations, it’s unclear to me how expertly the teams actually built the offense around their QB ... this three tight end AND a deep passing attack
seems pretty unique ... though it’s just Lamar’s skill that makes it look that way. It’ll be interesting to see how Kyler Murray evolves in Arizona w/ Kingsbury — they are also building around him.
That’s exactly what 2018 was. They thought they could win another year with Eli
I saw Lamar Jackson play a ton at Louisville. People won't like to hear it on this circlejerk of a thread but there are cracks in Lamars game. He still misses a ton of wide open throws. This Ravens team has more guys running wide open than I have ever seen in NFL football ever. It looks like fucking vintage USC vs little sisters of the poor half the time out there. ThE Ravens seems to have ten opportunities a game like this while other teams get one or two. Its insane. Once the NFL adjusts to Greg Roman and Lamar, Lamar is going to need to step it up as a passer still. Probably won't happen because development of being a pocket passer takes years. I look forward to a Billy B Ravens rematch.
I agree with this. Lamar presents so much of a challenge due to his ability, and willingness, to run the ball. Defenses rely on math to stop the run game, put more defenders in the box than there are blockers. That only works if your QB is not a run threat.
If (when) teams figure out how to slow down Balt's run game, Lamar will have to figure out how to be more consistent throwing the ball. That said, this offense is fun to watch.
They can all block, especially Boyle who is a freakish blocker, and they can get downfield. Finding a solution to deal with them AND LJax's ability to run is impossible right now.
Oh, and they have a speed burner who can get deep to keep the top of the defense honest with Hollywood Brown.
Right now, you have to hope the Ravens beat themselves...
Unicorn or trend?
I think he can be both. NFL is a copycat league, so if the Ravens win a SB with Lamar, other teams are bound to try and replicate that. Easier said than done, though. Finding an athlete of Lamar's brilliance ain't easy, especially given that they would have to throw the ball adequately too.
They can all block, especially Boyle who is a freakish blocker, and they can get downfield. Finding a solution to deal with them AND LJax's ability to run is impossible right now.
Oh, and they have a speed burner who can get deep to keep the top of the defense honest with Hollywood Brown.
Right now, you have to hope the Ravens beat themselves...
Yes, that offense is a handful for DC's. You have to have a minimum of 8 in the box at all times, which opens up so much in the passing game. They spread defenses out vertically which makes the math difficult for defenses. It will be interesting to see how teams attack this in the playoff. You know BB is already thinking about it.
The problem was the Bills OFFENSE. They turned the ball over once and had a short punt deep in their own territory, leading to 10 points for the Ravens offense.
I would put money down that BB has already started some level of preparations for it...
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The trend being, putting the best athlete on the field at QB, and building the scheme around that athleticism?
Unicorn or trend?
I think he can be both. NFL is a copycat league, so if the Ravens win a SB with Lamar, other teams are bound to try and replicate that. Easier said than done, though. Finding an athlete of Lamar's brilliance ain't easy, especially given that they would have to throw the ball adequately too.
It doesn’t have to be either/or.
There will always be a place for elite pocket passers. But the ravens are starting to show you can have sustained success other ways.
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simply hadn't really seen him play. This board slants heavily towards Big 10 fans, and Louisville isn't a national power so he didn't play many nationally televised games.
I saw Lamar Jackson play a ton at Louisville. People won't like to hear it on this circlejerk of a thread but there are cracks in Lamars game. He still misses a ton of wide open throws. This Ravens team has more guys running wide open than I have ever seen in NFL football ever. It looks like fucking vintage USC vs little sisters of the poor half the time out there. ThE Ravens seems to have ten opportunities a game like this while other teams get one or two. Its insane. Once the NFL adjusts to Greg Roman and Lamar, Lamar is going to need to step it up as a passer still. Probably won't happen because development of being a pocket passer takes years. I look forward to a Billy B Ravens rematch.
He should get some praise after being ripped essentially from day 1 of the combine through the draft and last season. It's really not a "circle jerk". No one's presenting things as if he doesn't have cracks in his game. The negatives were overstated to the point where it was suggested he change positions. And also he improved a lot. He shouldn't get downgraded because the offense around him works. It's not like he's getting bailed out by playing with superstars. His main receivers are both rookies, and he's got good Tight Ends.