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Sy'56's Giants-Eagles Game Review Now Available

Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/31/2019 9:44 am
FYI...


Game Review: Philadelphia Eagles 34 Ė New York Giants 17 - ( New Window )
I think your assessment of Jones  
hitdog42 : 12/31/2019 9:48 am : link
is spot on- entirely agree.

nice to see Gates there on the studs
Smith  
jeff57 : 12/31/2019 9:49 am : link
Was taken in the 6th round by the Niners.
Sy - minor point.  
Ira : 12/31/2019 9:50 am : link
Kaden Smith was drafted by SF in the 6th round.
Depressing read  
jeff57 : 12/31/2019 9:54 am : link
This team is nearly totally bereft of talent on the defensive side. And Solder and Hernandez have been big disappointments. Many, many holes to fill.
Thanks for your work all year, Sy and Eric.  
NoPeanutz : 12/31/2019 10:01 am : link
Congratulations to 26 on another year without losing a fumble.
Kaden Smith  
Gman11 : 12/31/2019 10:09 am : link
is what they expected Rhett Ellison to be. A good blocker that can make some catches.
RE: Depressing read  
gmenatlarge : 12/31/2019 10:10 am : link
In comment 14747075 jeff57 said:
Quote:
This team is nearly totally bereft of talent on the defensive side. And Solder and Hernandez have been big disappointments. Many, many holes to fill.


Yet they are keeping this woeful GM..?
Thanks for these all season  
section125 : 12/31/2019 10:12 am : link
Sy. Looking forward to your scouting reports before the draft. Really a pleasure to have an "insider" write this up each week.

Yeah, I thought that was Jones worst game of the year. Hard to believe he missed all those passes. I wonder if he was a bit hurt, because he never seemed to correct for being short or late on the crosses.

I absolutely agree with you on the oline. It is do or die this offseason. Barkley had big plays waiting for him all game. The Eagles with 9 guys near the LoS could have been killed with just some better blocking on 50% of the plays. Once Barkley gets past the line, he is virtually gone. One thing I do wonder about is how Zeitler goes from being a top 5 guard in the NFL while on the Browns to just a JAG with the Giants. It has to be coaching. I agree with you on Gates. An offseason weight training regimine gives then a VG #6 option or possibly a starter.

IMV, ILB is almost as important as ER. Not sure Simmons has enough "ass" to play ILB in the NFL, but they need someone with that type of skill and ability to be in the middle next year.
Thanks Sy...despite the miserable season I always look forward  
Blue21 : 12/31/2019 10:14 am : link
to your reviews and honest assessment after the games from a scouts point of view.
Great  
AcidTest : 12/31/2019 10:16 am : link
review. Thanks.
Thanks, Dave. The time and effort is much appreciated.  
Klaatu : 12/31/2019 10:17 am : link
As are your insights. It certainly can't be easy writing about such a pathetic team.

Question regarding the defense and free agency. You wrote "...NYG needs to be aggressive with their abundance of cash in getting at least 2 play-makers. CB / EDGE / S / LBÖany of those spots. Spend big, twice." Just wondering if you had any players in mind?

Also, I get the feeling that DG will target an OT in free agency. That's going to cost a lot. Couple that with signing Williams (and I completely agree with you about the price, but I'm worried that DG will overpay to keep him), do you think we'll have enough left to sign two top-tier defenders? Edge Rushers and Cornerbacks are going to cost an arm and a leg. ILB's maybe not so much. Your thoughts on this?
Sy, excellent review.  
Simms11 : 12/31/2019 10:18 am : link
Agree entirely on all accounts. Nice review to end the season.
Carl Banks  
NoPeanutz : 12/31/2019 10:25 am : link
speculated that Jones just might not be a bad-weather East Rutherford QB. If so, we could be in trouble.
Thanks Sy  
Rudy5757 : 12/31/2019 10:25 am : link
I always look forward to reading your stuff whether I agree or not I hold your information in high regards and respect your opinion. Just another brutal year.

I think we are going to have to pay Williams more than $10-12 million to keep him unfortunately and if we let him walk it will be one of the worst trades in NYG history imo. I dont see how DG can let him walk for any reason.

So you can't see Love in the Bethea role? I would have though coming from a Corner that would be a more natural position for him. I like him as a player though and I am sure we can find a role for him with a more creative DC. I am disappointed we waited so long to get him PT.

Is there a C in FA that you would target? I cant see us relying on a Rookie for that role next year but I think a lot of the trouble we had were due to poor play of the C. I would like us to sign a FA C and OT to at least go into the draft with 5 starting caliber players.

Who do we build around on D? I agree that we need to go big on D in FA and sign some impact players. Above all we need a top tier pass rusher.
Sy, I respect you, your opinion and enjoy these reports  
George from PA : 12/31/2019 10:37 am : link
But this one is a bit melodramatic.

This is not the worse of times....maybe another decade of losing would get us there.

I suspected a few weeks ago that Lawrence hit the proverbial rookie wall.

A massive offseason is needed

Thanks Sy  
Giants4Life : 12/31/2019 10:50 am : link
This is another indightments of bad coaching .. players and groups who donít Progress from the beginning of the year or even improve from their scouting reports
Offensive Line  
Geno 78 : 12/31/2019 11:03 am : link
Sy Do you think the :ine calls and play of the Center had a lot to do with the Poor play of the Guards ??
Not Necessarily Making Excuses for Jones  
Giants38 : 12/31/2019 11:07 am : link
But the weather was horrific. Again. People remember what they want to see, but Wentz was not exactly slinging it all over the place, either. He had a couple of absolute ducks, and the Eagles really didn't even attempt to get the ball deep. I'm not saying Wentz doesn't possess a stronger arm, only that it's ridiculous to say the guy was tossing deep passes left and right.

Obviously Jones under threw a couple of deep throws. No, he doesn't have the strongest arm of all time. But over the course of the season, I saw enough to know that he can get it out there. I think the biggest issue is him getting hit on every play. If people choose to ignore that, fine.

For a guy whose play was "off" all day and, according to some, had the worse game of his season, he still completed nearly 60% of those passes, and there were a couple drops mixed in. He overthrew Slayton slightly on a long ball where Slayton seemed to slow up for some reason.

I admittedly don't have the all-22 coverage, but Philly was building in screen passes and other easy completions for Wentz. Where were those for Jones? I'm not sure we called even one screen pass. It took three quarters for us to run a bootleg with Jones.

The guy finished with 24 TDs and 12 INTs in 12 games. As a rookie. Sy's writeups are quick to point out how Tate is a #3 option, Shepard is not a true #1 and there are concerns with Slayton moving forward. The leading receiver was Kaden Smith, because Engram was out, again. But yea, let's put it all on Jones because he made a couple of under throws in pouring rain.
I like Sy because his philosophy on how to build a team  
Thatís Gold, Jerry : 12/31/2019 11:26 am : link
matches with mine. I do not understand why Gettleman has not put more emphasis on the offensive line considering he made that his number one goal when he was hired. why was not more draft capital invested in his first two drafts? All we have is Hernandez and he certainly had a down sophomore year.

I also do not understand why we did not bring in more centers. Why this love affair with Halapio? You need a center who is intelligent, can make the line calls and protection calls and someone who can get some kind of a push in the middle. Halapio can do none of these things.

I agree with the two big name signings and certainly one should be an edge rusher, the other a FS IMO.
Giant 38  
NoPeanutz : 12/31/2019 12:18 pm : link
But this has to be an indictment on the play caller (PS) right?
Every other team calls plays that exploit their roster's strengths and avoid their weaknesses. So many of the plays the Giants run make it look like the team is just paddling upstream. Letting Jones hang out in the pocket to get creamed is one example. Refusing to rush the ball with Barkley when leading in the second half is another.
Very fair on Jones  
Go Terps : 12/31/2019 12:39 pm : link
Good read.
Sy, one minor correction  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 12/31/2019 12:42 pm : link
the eagles came in needing only a tie, not a win to win the division.

Also, though I agree the job Pederson did with a beat up team was noteworthy, those last 4 wins were all against the NFC Least, by far the worst division in the NFL.

And let me add myself to all those thanking you and looking forward to your draft previews.

Will Chase Young, who they presumably will not be able to draft now, receive one of your all time high grades, or is he being overrated by all those who rooted for losses to draft him?
RE: Very fair on Jones  
Giants38 : 12/31/2019 12:48 pm : link
In comment 14748035 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Good read.


Well, for a guy who is negative about everything Giants, you must have loved the read. Because it basically said Tate is ok, but not good. Shepard is ok, but not good. Jones played his worst game of the year. And we have no playmakers on D.

It was a GoTerps Special!
Great review, Sy!  
TC : 12/31/2019 1:38 pm : link
Thanks for all of your work. Couldn't dispute any of your conclusions. I like Williams going forward, if he doesn't want to much, but Giants need more difference makers on both sides of the ball.

Am also particularly high on K. Smith based upon his play so far. He's not just a good receiver, he's a physical, shall we say NASTY, blocker. The Giants need all the physical, tough and athletic players they can find.

I haven't been exposed to Bienemy to the extent you have, but what I've seen I've very much liked, particularly his attitude. He's a no BS leader. Pair him with a couple decent coordinators, and I think we may have something.

And, lastly, you're right; YIPPEE it's the off season!!!

Aw, sh!t!!!
This was a poorly coached team we saw on Sunday.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 12/31/2019 1:58 pm : link
There were multiple A gap blitzes that weren't picked up by anyone. There were stunts in which the o-line looked like they'd never heard of something called a stunt. There was the defense playing 8 yards off the ball on 3rd & 6 making for an easy pitch and catch first down (as they've done FAR too often this season). Spielman complained about ALL of those things during the game.

The idea that Boston fucking Scott did nothing all season long except for 2 games against the Giants is a complete fucking embarrassment. Chase Edmonds of ARI did the same exact thing.

We all know DJ doesn't have Eli's arm strength, but I didn't think his underthrows were issues with not being able to drive the ball. I thought he was just trying to be too fine/perfect with the throws. He has a tendency to calibrate the velocity on his throws, which is a good thing. He struggled in this game with those throws, but I don't think that's really an issue at all. I think he desperately needs to improve his pocket awareness and the team desperately needs to improve the o-line so it's not a fucking issue on so many of their pass attempts.

Listened to the postgame interview on the radio with Michael Thomas. He blamed youth for most, if not all of the issues in the secondary. I LOLed considering the stupidity of the penalties he committed the last 2 weeks of the season. There are a pile of veterans on this team who're beyond the end of their ropes. Alec Ogletree looked particularly disinterested to add to his regular suckage.
Thanks, Sy.  
Stev7 : 12/31/2019 2:35 pm : link
Looking forward to the 2020 Our Lads.
RE: RE: Very fair on Jones  
Go Terps : 12/31/2019 2:43 pm : link
In comment 14748075 Giants38 said:
Quote:
In comment 14748035 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Good read.



Well, for a guy who is negative about everything Giants, you must have loved the read. Because it basically said Tate is ok, but not good. Shepard is ok, but not good. Jones played his worst game of the year. And we have no playmakers on D.

It was a GoTerps Special!


It's not negativity, it's reality. Sorry you can't accept that.
RE: RE: RE: Very fair on Jones  
section125 : 12/31/2019 2:48 pm : link
In comment 14748485 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14748075 Giants38 said:


Quote:


In comment 14748035 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Good read.



Well, for a guy who is negative about everything Giants, you must have loved the read. Because it basically said Tate is ok, but not good. Shepard is ok, but not good. Jones played his worst game of the year. And we have no playmakers on D.

It was a GoTerps Special!



It's not negativity, it's reality. Sorry you can't accept that.


Clearly his worst game, throwing. Shit happens.
All these alleged veteran leader "cuture" guys blow  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/31/2019 2:49 pm : link
and it's really disappointing to see a guy with the reputation of Michael Thomas blame younger players because he can't cover.

RE: Very fair on Jones  
Danny Kanell : 12/31/2019 2:50 pm : link
In comment 14748035 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Good read.


Did you go out of your way to comment on Sy's review of Jones in the game prior?
I never understood the Rhett Ellison signing  
Paulie Walnuts : 12/31/2019 2:54 pm : link
combined the drafting of Engram..
RE: RE: Very fair on Jones  
Go Terps : 12/31/2019 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14748508 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
In comment 14748035 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Good read.



Did you go out of your way to comment on Sy's review of Jones in the game prior?


When I said it was a fair read, I was talking about his review of Jones's entire season in his 3 closing thoughts: "He has a ways to go and I think he can be the guy, but I am not labeling him the guy yet."

That's a fair assessment. Not killing him, not anointing him. People are posting that Jones is the guy for 10-15 years...

And concerning Jones's performance against the Redskins, haven't you learned yet what games are real and which are bullshit? We went through this in '18 with people going nuts over offensive production against dead teams in the second half of the season.

This game against Philly was a real game, against real coaches (Schwartz's defense once again owning the Giants), against a real team that was playing for high stakes. That's what the season opener is going to look like next year...not the Redskins with an interim coaching staff.

I've said it in a bunch of threads...I like Jones, but the problems with his game are real: ball security and pocket presence. And I'm not sure they can ever get coached away...they weren't with Eli in 16 years.

I take umbrage with people calling this a great rookie season for Jones. It wasn't by any stretch. A 6.6 YPA, all the turnovers, and a 3-9 record as a starter don't scream "franchise QB" to me. Sorry.
No excuses for Jones  
LG in NYC : 12/31/2019 3:06 pm : link
It wasn't a great game for him by any stretch.

However, I don't understand the focus on arm strength... other than perhaps 1 throw, his other misses were "off" but not because of lack of arm strength.

One was a touch pass to Shep that he simple missed. Not arm strenght related.

and as others note, a miss to Slayton was essentially an overthrow.

Fair to criticize when due but disingenuous to make shit up to fit a narrative.

(by the way, this is not to Sy... rather the more general commentary by BBIers on this and other threads this week)
RE: RE: RE: Very fair on Jones  
Danny Kanell : 12/31/2019 3:10 pm : link
In comment 14748534 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14748508 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


In comment 14748035 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Good read.



Did you go out of your way to comment on Sy's review of Jones in the game prior?



When I said it was a fair read, I was talking about his review of Jones's entire season in his 3 closing thoughts: "He has a ways to go and I think he can be the guy, but I am not labeling him the guy yet."

That's a fair assessment. Not killing him, not anointing him. People are posting that Jones is the guy for 10-15 years...

And concerning Jones's performance against the Redskins, haven't you learned yet what games are real and which are bullshit? We went through this in '18 with people going nuts over offensive production against dead teams in the second half of the season.

This game against Philly was a real game, against real coaches (Schwartz's defense once again owning the Giants), against a real team that was playing for high stakes. That's what the season opener is going to look like next year...not the Redskins with an interim coaching staff.

I've said it in a bunch of threads...I like Jones, but the problems with his game are real: ball security and pocket presence. And I'm not sure they can ever get coached away...they weren't with Eli in 16 years.

I take umbrage with people calling this a great rookie season for Jones. It wasn't by any stretch. A 6.6 YPA, all the turnovers, and a 3-9 record as a starter don't scream "franchise QB" to me. Sorry.


Terps. This is going to be your battle cry going forward. You've made it clear your position on Jones. Knowing your history, i'm fairly convinced you're taking this stance because it's going against the vast majority. Also because Jones could potentially be Gettleman's legacy.

The kid had a good rookie year. To say otherwise is a bit disingenuous. Given your history of being a contrarian, it's very disingenuous.

The things you've gotten right in the past are usually magnified because it's usually the opinion against the grain. I think/hope you're wrong here. I also hope you hope you're wrong here but I don't believe that's the case.

Let's see how this kid pans out. I think most of us who've watched football a long time think Jones has franchise potential. He still has alot of work to do but if you're going to make this your daily battle cry, just be fair. What I see here in this thread with your initial comment is you taking another opportunity to highlight the negative instead of opening your mind up to the positive. And i'm strictly talking about our QB.

I think Sy had it right,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/31/2019 3:10 pm : link
Jones has earned the length of his rookie deal to see if he's the guy.

Anyone that's sure he's a "franchise" guy is just being a fan. There are real warts there that need correction, or it's not going to work out.

As said before me, that Eagles game was a test, and he didn't pass. Nobody else on this roster did either. That game has to be the low bar, beating an injured, desperate team playing for a playoff spot. If you can't win that game, you aren't ready to play real football.

Re: HC search  
LG in NYC : 12/31/2019 3:12 pm : link
Sy hits the right notes IMO... regardless of the individual names.

forget who runs what schemes or had an impressive offensive or defensive unit (wrt coordinators). I want to hear about Leadership and ability to connect and building a culture. Those are the qualities we should be looking for.

Get that guy and the rest will fall into place.
RE: No excuses for Jones  
HomerJones45 : 12/31/2019 3:14 pm : link
In comment 14748550 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
It wasn't a great game for him by any stretch.

However, I don't understand the focus on arm strength... other than perhaps 1 throw, his other misses were "off" but not because of lack of arm strength.

One was a touch pass to Shep that he simple missed. Not arm strenght related.

and as others note, a miss to Slayton was essentially an overthrow.

Fair to criticize when due but disingenuous to make shit up to fit a narrative.

(by the way, this is not to Sy... rather the more general commentary by BBIers on this and other threads this week)
Lots of air under anything over 15-20 yards. Allows the db's to play catch up. That happened on Sunday. Also, note that no one is playing for anything deep. Most teams are playing with a single safety back there. Teams are just not concerned with Jones throwing deep.

Is he "the guy" or a super-sized Case Keenum. Remains to be seen. We'll see.
Sy's critique was very fair  
HomerJones45 : 12/31/2019 3:15 pm : link
Gettleman has a lot of work to do.
HJ45  
LG in NYC : 12/31/2019 3:16 pm : link
Didn't we hear how they played single high with Eli as well?
no one questions his arm strength.

DJ's arm is not Jeff George but it plenty fine for the NFL. any hand wringing to the contrary is just complaining for the sale of complaining.
It's not complaining for the hell of it. Sunday night the eagles  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/31/2019 3:21 pm : link
decided to sell out to stop Barkley and make jones throw.

For three quarters, the OL held up. He made no throws.
Danny  
Go Terps : 12/31/2019 3:25 pm : link
Quote:
I think/hope you're wrong here. I also hope you hope you're wrong here but I don't believe that's the case.


You hope I'm wrong about what? I haven't taken a position on Jones being the long term guy one way or the other.

I've taken two positions regarding the Giants' QB spot:

1. If we had the shot to draft Burrow, I would do that and trade Jones.

2. Any incoming coach/GM should be given the leeway to pursue a different QB if he wants.

Neither of those apply anymore because we didn't get the #1 pick, and Gettleman is still the GM. Jones is the QB. You're not going to hear me advocate to trade him to draft Herbert, Eason, or anyone else. I wouldn't do that if I were the Giants.

Jones does some things really well...he throws the ball beautifully (IMO better than Eli ever did, and I'm not worried about the arm strength). I really like the mobility - I think the Giants have completely failed to utilize it properly...I want to see 8-10 planned QB runs a game.

Jones also does some things not so well, and I'm not sure they can get fully coached away.

I think whomever is running the offense next has to take these things into account:

1. Get the ball out of his hands from the pocket quickly
2. Get him playing downhill using rollouts and planned runs

This guy is not Phil Simms. You don't want him standing tall in the pocket scanning the field.
RE: Great review, Sy!  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 12/31/2019 4:01 pm : link
In comment 14748286 TC said:
Quote:
Thanks for all of your work. Couldn't dispute any of your conclusions. I like Williams going forward, if he doesn't want to much, but Giants need more difference makers on both sides of the ball.

Am also particularly high on K. Smith based upon his play so far. He's not just a good receiver, he's a physical, shall we say NASTY, blocker. The Giants need all the physical, tough and athletic players they can find.

I haven't been exposed to Bienemy to the extent you have, but what I've seen I've very much liked, particularly his attitude. He's a no BS leader. Pair him with a couple decent coordinators, and I think we may have something.

And, lastly, you're right; YIPPEE it's the off season!!!

Aw, sh!t!!!

Hopefully Smith, along with Connoly and even Slayton are the low round guys who become bleed blue, grateful to be playing for the Giants org, in the mold of Diehl and Jacobs. We don't win those 2 SBs without someone like Jacobs, quite irreplaceable.

Giants have been absolutely decimated in that regard, you couldn't do worse if you intenionally tried.
Bieniemy talks about his approach to football.  
TC : 12/31/2019 5:17 pm : link
.
Video: The Big Picture - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Very fair on Jones  
Giants38 : 12/31/2019 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14748534 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14748508 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


In comment 14748035 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Good read.



Did you go out of your way to comment on Sy's review of Jones in the game prior?



When I said it was a fair read, I was talking about his review of Jones's entire season in his 3 closing thoughts: "He has a ways to go and I think he can be the guy, but I am not labeling him the guy yet."

That's a fair assessment. Not killing him, not anointing him. People are posting that Jones is the guy for 10-15 years...

And concerning Jones's performance against the Redskins, haven't you learned yet what games are real and which are bullshit? We went through this in '18 with people going nuts over offensive production against dead teams in the second half of the season.

This game against Philly was a real game, against real coaches (Schwartz's defense once again owning the Giants), against a real team that was playing for high stakes. That's what the season opener is going to look like next year...not the Redskins with an interim coaching staff.

I've said it in a bunch of threads...I like Jones, but the problems with his game are real: ball security and pocket presence. And I'm not sure they can ever get coached away...they weren't with Eli in 16 years.

I take umbrage with people calling this a great rookie season for Jones. It wasn't by any stretch. A 6.6 YPA, all the turnovers, and a 3-9 record as a starter don't scream "franchise QB" to me. Sorry.


I'd take your comments more seriously if you didn't criticize literally everything about the Giants. Granted, there is not a lot to like about the team, but it's obnoxious to criticize every aspect of everything after every game.

Most of us here believe Eli is going to the HOF (I have no idea what you think). This year, with a healthy Barkley and more weapons than Jones, Eli was 1-3, completed the same percentage of passes, with 6 TDs and 5 INTs. In 12 games, with many weapons injured, Jones accounted for 26 TDs. Do you even know the last time Eli did that? It was way back in 2016, when Eli accounted for 26 TDs in 16 games.

This is not a bash Eli thread. I love the guy. He is my favorite athlete ever. But do you have any idea how well Jones played this season? And let's put it this way - I'd rather have the guy fumble the ball - which is likely correctable - than throw INTs. Winston is five years into his career and threw 30 INTs.

I don't care if you deem the games Jones played well in "real games". Fact is he went on the road - against NFL players - and crushed Washington's D. The fact that he under threw a couple passes against the Eagles - but made the right reads - is not going to ruin my belief that we have a franchise QB.
The quality of defenses he played against matters  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/31/2019 7:26 pm : link
You may not want to hear it, but it doesnt change that.

You can draw positives from him having big games against bottom 5 defenses. It's not enough to lean on and take a victory lap.

Last year some of you took the bait when the giants had a bunch of 30 point games against trash teams and claimed the team had turned a corner. How long did that last?
There's also the issue of the franchise QB concept  
Go Terps : 12/31/2019 7:41 pm : link
I've been saying it for years...is it worth paying a guy that is not clearly elite 15% of the salary cap? The college to NFL QB transition has never been as smooth as it is now.

Look at the Cowboys as an example. Which scenario is better?

A: Pay Prescott $35M-$40M a year for 4 or 5 years
B: Draft any of Herbert/Eason/Love/Hurts/Fromm and let Prescott walk (or perhaps even they should have done this last year and traded Prescott)

To me that's a no brainer...the answer is B.

Right now the teams that still have the QBs they drafted in '18 - Browns, Jets, Bills, and even Ravens should be asking themselves the same question: "Do we want to pay Mayfield/Darnold/Allen/Jackson 15% of our salary cap a year from now?" If the answer is anything other than a loud YES!, they should think about drafting a QB in this draft.

After 2020 the Giants should ask themselves the same question:

"Do we want to pay Daniel Jones 15% of our salary cap a year from now?"

We don't know the answer to that yet, but I think it's crucial that they even be aware they should be ready to ask the question.
Daniel Jones has a 5 yr deal with Giants  
twostepgiants : 12/31/2019 8:54 pm : link
He has finished year 1 and has 3 years remaining and the Giants have an option on him for a 5th year at their discretion, not his.
That was all Jones  
Marty866b : 12/31/2019 9:51 pm : link
Will not get that 3rd year if the Giants are picking #1 next year.
RE: Daniel Jones has a 5 yr deal with Giants  
Diver_Down : 12/31/2019 9:52 pm : link
In comment 14749163 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
He has finished year 1 and has 3 years remaining and the Giants have an option on him for a 5th year at their discretion, not his.


People have to quit leaning on the 5th year option crutch. It is a terrible allocation of resources for QBs (or any position for that matter) picked in the top 10. We have to treat these contracts as 4 year deals which means the answer whether he is the guy or not needs to be known heading into the 4th season. This year we had people complain about Eli's $17M cash earnings ($23M cap hit). Yet, Winston and Mariota both played on their 5th year option at a cost of $24M cash guaranteed. The Bucs got a guy 30/30 at $24M with a HC giving an endorsement that if they can win with this guy, they can win with any QB. Mariota was able to steal $24M watching from the bench. By the time Jones is eligible for the 5th year option (deadline is end of 3rd year), it will likely surpass $28M for a single year. So essentially he has 2 more seasons to prove whether he is worth a commitment of $28M/yr.
RE: I like Sy because his philosophy on how to build a team  
mdc1 : 12/31/2019 10:08 pm : link
In comment 14747525 Thatís Gold, Jerry said:
Quote:
matches with mine. I do not understand why Gettleman has not put more emphasis on the offensive line considering he made that his number one goal when he was hired. why was not more draft capital invested in his first two drafts? All we have is Hernandez and he certainly had a down sophomore year.

I also do not understand why we did not bring in more centers. Why this love affair with Halapio? You need a center who is intelligent, can make the line calls and protection calls and someone who can get some kind of a push in the middle. Halapio can do none of these things.

I agree with the two big name signings and certainly one should be an edge rusher, the other a FS IMO.


He did place emphasis by drafting Saquon and patch it with FA's, unfortunately the picks were expensive and not effective at a middle tier level, or we have the worst coaches. He did exactly what Reese as forced to do when you can't scout,draft, develop and coach up. You have another team do it for you. lame..and why we are a losing team.
RE: RE: Daniel Jones has a 5 yr deal with Giants  
Go Terps : 12/31/2019 10:10 pm : link
In comment 14749237 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14749163 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


He has finished year 1 and has 3 years remaining and the Giants have an option on him for a 5th year at their discretion, not his.



People have to quit leaning on the 5th year option crutch. It is a terrible allocation of resources for QBs (or any position for that matter) picked in the top 10. We have to treat these contracts as 4 year deals which means the answer whether he is the guy or not needs to be known heading into the 4th season. This year we had people complain about Eli's $17M cash earnings ($23M cap hit). Yet, Winston and Mariota both played on their 5th year option at a cost of $24M cash guaranteed. The Bucs got a guy 30/30 at $24M with a HC giving an endorsement that if they can win with this guy, they can win with any QB. Mariota was able to steal $24M watching from the bench. By the time Jones is eligible for the 5th year option (deadline is end of 3rd year), it will likely surpass $28M for a single year. So essentially he has 2 more seasons to prove whether he is worth a commitment of $28M/yr.


Exactly. Thank you for putting it better than I could.
Brave Terps World  
GiantEgo : 12/31/2019 10:35 pm : link
You may have some very good points as far as economics go but what you describe sounds to me like some kind of dystophic NFL I would have no interest in.

Im pretty confident this would kill fan interest except for fantasy/gambling types. But this may be where it's all headed anyway.
Reading about the safeties and corners  
St. Jimmy : 1/1/2020 12:10 am : link
drove home that there are a bunch of good special teams players playing in the secondary. It shows why the Giants could sign them because they don't have a place in an NFL defense. Hamilton had at least one pass defense which a good defensive back intercepts. That is the problem with thrashing the roster. There is no depth behind the suspect starters the team has. But the special teams are a little better when the blocking holds up minus fieldgoals.
Man that was some cold reality  
Dave in PA : 1/1/2020 12:44 am : link
Basically, Gettleman stripped the team down and built up one that is still dog shit. O line Iím shambles after replacing EVERY starter with his own guy. Just pathetic
RE: The quality of defenses he played against matters  
Giants38 : 1/1/2020 3:01 am : link
In comment 14749063 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
You may not want to hear it, but it doesnt change that.

You can draw positives from him having big games against bottom 5 defenses. It's not enough to lean on and take a victory lap.

Last year some of you took the bait when the giants had a bunch of 30 point games against trash teams and claimed the team had turned a corner. How long did that last?


No one is saying it doesn't matter. But you can't ignore how well he played in those games, either. Jones ripped the Jets to shreds. Derek Carr - who by all accounts had a very nice season for the Raiders - threw for 127 yards and 0 TDs against that same Jets team, and the Raiders got curb stomped. Incidentally, Carr also had 0 games where he threw for 4 TDs. Jones had THREE and another where he threw for 2 and ran for 2. You can't just ignore that stuff.

In two games against Detroit, Aaron Rodgers threw for a total of 4 TDs and two INTs. Jones had 4 TDs and 0 INTs in a single game. When Rodgers played against a David Blough led Detroit team in Detroit, he completed fewer than 50 percent of his passes. Both those games were close victories, so it was not as if Rodgers just sat on the ball. Against Washington - in GB - Rodgers threw for fewer than 200 yards and one TD. GB scored 20 points in that game. Jones filleted them for 350 yards and 5 TDs.

Look, Daniel Jones has a fumbling issue that needs correcting. We all know that. But the kid accounted for 26 TDs in 12 games. He had 12 INTs. Six of those INTs came in games against NE (where everyone was hurt) and GB, where he played on a high ankle sprain that caused him to miss the next two. For some reason, people just discount that stuff.

No one is calling him Aaron Rodgers or Pat Mahomes. But I have no idea where this dialogue has come from that the guy was not impressive this year. The team lost many of its games because their D was horrific. I'm not sure what people were expecting from him this season. 70% completion percentage? 35 TDs?
What are our top needs you say given the season and the finale?  
SGMen : 1/1/2020 5:05 am : link
As I read this, my #1 concern with rookie QB D. Jones is his FUMBLING. Yes, our OL sucked and he often had guys on him before he could even set his feet! However, he needs to sense pressure and throw the dang ball away!! My hope and prayer is that he spends the off-season watching film and learns to hold onto the ball or throw it away quickly when necessary. As for his interceptions, he was a rookie and I think he'll learn to read defenses better. His arm is "strong enough" to be a winner in NY.

OL: what a tragedy that Eli didn't have an OL from 2012 thru this season. This OL is among the three worst in the league and we were healthy for the season! That is scary!!! So how do we fix this mess?
1. We need a UFA OT who clearly is an upgrade over Remmers and / or Solder. I'm thinking it won't be a LT so we may suffer through another year of Solder & Hernandez on the left side.
2. We need a UFA OC as Hilapio is just a terrible player and won't be signed to another deal.
3. We need to draft quality OL guys regardless of position.

On defense, we clearly need an ER of merit; a FS who can cover and tackle; and, ILB to replace Ogletree and Mayo (limited) though Smalley may come back from his ACL and impact. A shame the kid got hurt.

My "Dream Scenario" has us trading down for someone who wants a QB badly and we get either an OT or a WR like Jeudy. Yes, we can use an ER but after Young there isn't someone I think we desperately need or is BPA above an OT or WR in top 8 picks (assuming we don't drop out of top 8 or so....). I'd love for us to get a starter in Rd 1, 2 and 3 though that is asking a lot.

We also have to hope that guys like BJ Hill, W. Hernandez, L. Carter, Ximines, Baker, Lawrence, Love, Slayton, K. Smith all improve and improve a lot so we can be a force.

I think this team could be very good on offense if it gets those two VETERAN UFA's on the OL who upgrade by a lot as well as see possibly N. Gates improve enough to challenge for a starting spot.

There is a sprinkling of talent on this team but also a lot of big voids. We have good draft picks and cap money we need to spend wisely.

But most importantly, we need to sign the right HC and coaching staff because this current one outright SUCKED.
Itís not that simple ¬†
djm : 1/1/2020 10:06 am : link
Dallas could take a big step back if the replacement, young qb canít play the nfl game as well as Prescott can play it. Yes theyíd save money but they could suck.
RE: Itís not that simple ¬†
Go Terps : 1/1/2020 11:31 am : link
In comment 14749549 djm said:
Quote:
Dallas could take a big step back if the replacement, young qb canít play the nfl game as well as Prescott can play it. Yes theyíd save money but they could suck.


They're more likely to suck if they pay Prescott like a superstar and need him to carry them more than he is now.
This is some quote by Sy...  
bw in dc : 1/1/2020 1:47 pm : link
Quote:
The left side of this line was a disaster, as the dumpster fire here just continues to intensify. Will Hernandez and Nate Solder combined for 4 pressures and a simple stunt resulted in 2 sacks where they both looked lost. They also allowed 1 TFL each. This has been an issue for 32-straight games.


How this didn't put a dagger into Gettleman is beyond me.

So onto another Hog Mollie reboot...
RE: This is some quote by Sy...  
crick n NC : 1/1/2020 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14749963 bw in dc said:
Quote:


Quote:


The left side of this line was a disaster, as the dumpster fire here just continues to intensify. Will Hernandez and Nate Solder combined for 4 pressures and a simple stunt resulted in 2 sacks where they both looked lost. They also allowed 1 TFL each. This has been an issue for 32-straight games.



How this didn't put a dagger into Gettleman is beyond me.

So onto another Hog Mollie reboot...


Well bw, you are assigning singular blame for a problem. The problem is probably a mixture from multiple sources. The question is, what source(s) are more responsible for the problem or problems, or is the problem somewhat equally spread about from the multiple sources.
Well...  
bw in dc : 1/1/2020 2:04 pm : link
apparently this is Gettleman's area of expertise and ALL of these players (remember, too, Omameh was signed and eventually cut) were acquired under his watch. No?

So while I can certainly place blame on Hal Hunter, who was a very questionable hire, I have to place the majority of the blame here on Gettleman.

To me  
crick n NC : 1/1/2020 2:08 pm : link
That is where you want to assign blame. Had these players played well the majority of your praise would have probably been towards the coaches for coaching up subpar players.
I agree with the good and bad take on jones  
djm : 1/1/2020 2:47 pm : link
More than ok with deemphasizing DJís shortcomings for the sake of being fair, he was a rookie after all, but heís got his marching orders with what needs fixing. Heís got a pretty high ceiling and jones will work hard. With a stable and adept coaching staff this guy will win games. I have little doubt but thatís easier said than done as we all know.
RE: To me  
bw in dc : 1/1/2020 3:28 pm : link
In comment 14750023 crick n NC said:
Quote:
That is where you want to assign blame. Had these players played well the majority of your praise would have probably been towards the coaches for coaching up subpar players.


So every player under-performed - which really isn't a stretch - because of the coach?

In your world, Gettleman got most of the ingredients right, the cook was just that bad.

Sounds like you thinking aligns with Mara's...
RE: To me  
ajr2456 : 1/1/2020 3:32 pm : link
In comment 14750023 crick n NC said:
Quote:
That is where you want to assign blame. Had these players played well the majority of your praise would have probably been towards the coaches for coaching up subpar players.


The person who brought in the players absolutely takes a large part of the blame. The entire offensive line was replaced, some positions twice over.

Omameh was cut. Solder might be, did the coaches teach him how to not be good anymore?
RE: RE: To me  
crick n NC : 1/1/2020 3:46 pm : link
In comment 14750219 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14750023 crick n NC said:


Quote:


That is where you want to assign blame. Had these players played well the majority of your praise would have probably been towards the coaches for coaching up subpar players.



So every player under-performed - which really isn't a stretch - because of the coach?

In your world, Gettleman got most of the ingredients right, the cook was just that bad.

Sounds like you thinking aligns with Mara's...


Every player? What a gross exaggeration. Read what I wrote earlier, it's likely a mixture from multiple sources. Gettleman being right or wrong doesn't concern me as far as defending any position. My take pretty much the whole time has been a wait and see approach. My take regarding shurmer is that he is a horrible head coach that clouds the picture as far as player evaluation goes. What a new coach gets out of these Gettleman players should be quite telling. However, if the coach has much success and these Gettleman players play much better we should probably be careful about assigning too much credit to Gettleman for his transactions or the new HC for coaching up sub par players.
RE: RE: To me  
crick n NC : 1/1/2020 3:48 pm : link
In comment 14750226 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 14750023 crick n NC said:


Quote:


That is where you want to assign blame. Had these players played well the majority of your praise would have probably been towards the coaches for coaching up subpar players.



The person who brought in the players absolutely takes a large part of the blame. The entire offensive line was replaced, some positions twice over.

Omameh was cut. Solder might be, did the coaches teach him how to not be good anymore?


How much does bad coaching affect the players on the field? Gettleman has obviously neither been perfect or as bad as claimed. There have been mistakes and there are probably players that suffered from Shurmur.
RE: RE: RE: To me  
ajr2456 : 1/1/2020 3:53 pm : link
In comment 14750258 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 14750226 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 14750023 crick n NC said:


Quote:


That is where you want to assign blame. Had these players played well the majority of your praise would have probably been towards the coaches for coaching up subpar players.



The person who brought in the players absolutely takes a large part of the blame. The entire offensive line was replaced, some positions twice over.

Omameh was cut. Solder might be, did the coaches teach him how to not be good anymore?



How much does bad coaching affect the players on the field? Gettleman has obviously neither been perfect or as bad as claimed. There have been mistakes and there are probably players that suffered from Shurmur.


Youíre over looking the fact that the entire offensive line was changed and if anything itís gotten worse. There havenít even been stretches of good play. That leans toward bad players.
Sy Thanks for doing these.  
Watson : 1/1/2020 3:57 pm : link
Look forward to your draft write ups.
I never considered  
crick n NC : 1/1/2020 4:00 pm : link
This OL group to be the finished product. I think Gettleman added what he thought would be a more stable line.

Again how much did Shurmur's ineptitude as a coach impact the players? Obviously you don't have to consider Shurmur to be of any significance on the players. My thinking is that I find it reasonable to want to see these players under a different and hopefully decent hc at worse.
When do we get to consider the offensive line  
ajr2456 : 1/1/2020 4:06 pm : link
As a finished product? They only:

Handed out the richest LT contract
Spent a second round pick on a guard
Traded for a guard
Signed a RT who has been good in the past but with injury concerns.

The only position that hasnít gotten major investment is center. Do you we need to have 5 1st round draft picks on the line before we can fully judge Gettleman on what he put together?
RE: When do we get to consider the offensive line  
crick n NC : 1/1/2020 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14750306 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
As a finished product? They only:

Handed out the richest LT contract
Spent a second round pick on a guard
Traded for a guard
Signed a RT who has been good in the past but with injury concerns.

The only position that hasnít gotten major investment is center. Do you we need to have 5 1st round draft picks on the line before we can fully judge Gettleman on what he put together?


You are free to judge on whatever you want. I was merely explaining my POV. Why do I think this group wasn't the intended finished product to me? I consider remmers and Halapio as stop gaps. Now with Halapio you hope you get lucky and hit with him. Solder was a miss considering the contract in my view, pio needs to be upgraded, but I didn't mind then taking a good look at pio.
I think Jones got lit up  
rocco8112 : 1/1/2020 4:12 pm : link
this past Sunday. He is getting hit, with Eli we became accommodated to the QB getting drilled an just bouncing up like nothing happened. I doubt Jones will have that super human type ability.

I think this played into his crap throws, along with the weather. He certainly can place the ball though. It is pretty to watch. To my eye he does not have Eli's hose though. Jury is still out if he can bring it in inclement weather and wind.

Eli was absurdly consistent, he was essentially the same player home and away, outside and in , sunny and rain, windy and not. He also took hit after hit after hit and kept coming. I have seen Eli lambasted for being inconsistent, something I have never understood.


I like Jones' toughness a lot, and he can throw it well enough toi prodiuce. He threw a lot of TD;s and similar to 10, we would have one more games with a consistent run game or any semblance of a defense.

Lots to like with Jones, can he be a franchise guy? Time will tell, I hope so, he is high character and seems like a good guy to root for. We certainly need some positive in blue. My thing is will he produce when there are actually expectations for the team to win and can he coordinate the money drives when it counts the most in all conditions against all opponents.

Will be rooting for him to succeed.

RE: When do we get to consider the offensive line  
Jimmy Googs : 1/1/2020 4:38 pm : link
In comment 14750306 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
As a finished product? They only:

Handed out the richest LT contract
Spent a second round pick on a guard
Traded for a guard
Signed a RT who has been good in the past but with injury concerns.

The only position that hasnít gotten major investment is center. Do you we need to have 5 1st round draft picks on the line before we can fully judge Gettleman on what he put together?


Good post
RE: RE: RE: RE: To me  
BigBlueShock : 1/1/2020 5:05 pm : link
In comment 14750268 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 14750258 crick n NC said:


Quote:


In comment 14750226 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 14750023 crick n NC said:


Quote:


That is where you want to assign blame. Had these players played well the majority of your praise would have probably been towards the coaches for coaching up subpar players.



The person who brought in the players absolutely takes a large part of the blame. The entire offensive line was replaced, some positions twice over.

Omameh was cut. Solder might be, did the coaches teach him how to not be good anymore?



How much does bad coaching affect the players on the field? Gettleman has obviously neither been perfect or as bad as claimed. There have been mistakes and there are probably players that suffered from Shurmur.



Youíre over looking the fact that the entire offensive line was changed and if anything itís gotten worse. There havenít even been stretches of good play. That leans toward bad players.

I have to disagree a bit here. Iím not trying to defend Gettleman at all, he needs to be gone. But this team has cycled through player after player after player on the OL and literally nobody they plug in works out. Thatís coaching. Solder, Zeitler and Remmers have all been adequate OL in the past. Every single one of them were dumpster fires this season. Will Hernandez showed some promise as a rookie but severely regressed this season. Thatís coaching. Are you telling me all 4 of these guys coincidentally all had the worst years of their careers and it ISNT coaching? There have been several Giants castoffs that have joined other teams and are nowhere near as bad as they were with the Giants. The OL isnít about individual talent as much as it is working as a cohesive unit. You can scheme around less than ideal talent on the OL. Plenty of teams do it. But somehow, no matter who the Giants put on the line, they fail miserably. These guys still canít recognize simple stunts. Thatís coaching.

Weíve seen about 100 OL come and go the past 6 seasons. You honestly believe that every one of them were talentless hacks that just couldnít be coached to work as part of a unit?
Hernandez showed promise  
ajr2456 : 1/1/2020 5:22 pm : link
His first year. Same oline coach, does he get credit for that? Same way Gettleman gets credit for Jones, but Shurmur didnít for him playing well.

It seems coaching are only an impact when Gettlemans players arenít playing well.
RE: Hernandez showed promise  
crick n NC : 1/1/2020 5:39 pm : link
In comment 14750467 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
His first year. Same oline coach, does he get credit for that? Same way Gettleman gets credit for Jones, but Shurmur didnít for him playing well.

It seems coaching are only an impact when Gettlemans players arenít playing well.


Perhaps, defenses found weaknesses in both Hernandez and Shurmur's offense and took advantage? It's not some crazy theory that Shurmur couldn't improve his players. It's also not crazy that some of Gettleman's players just didn't play well. There always seems to be a search for "either or" instead of accepting the likelihood of multiple issues.

Many of us have been saying....  
bw in dc : 1/1/2020 5:47 pm : link
that the players aren't that great and neither is the coaching. So the shopper and the cooks need to go.

I have a feeling there was some sympathy in the decision to keep Gettleman per the cancer scare. Even Mara mentioned it in his opening Monday. I get that on a human level to a degree, but he was still doing the job...
RE: Hernandez showed promise  
BigBlueShock : 1/1/2020 5:47 pm : link
In comment 14750467 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
His first year. Same oline coach, does he get credit for that? Same way Gettleman gets credit for Jones, but Shurmur didnít for him playing well.

It seems coaching are only an impact when Gettlemans players arenít playing well.

Wtf? A 2nd round draft pick SHOULD play well. How did he do after this coaching staff had some time with him? Itís absolutely hysterical that you completely ignore the numerous other points I made an zeroed in on Hernandez playing decently at times last season as evidence that the coaching is not an issue. Youíre right. Every fucking player Gettleman brought in sucks. And Reese before him. But thatís Gettlemans fault too apparently.

I canít even believe youíre making me defend Gettleman here. Heís done an awful job. But youíre hatred for him has made you look like an idiot here. Iím not rehashing what I already said in my previous post, youíll just ignore it anyways. Youíre right. Coaching doesnít mean shit when it comes to the OL. They all suck. Every single one of them brought in here the past 6 seasons. Coaching has been brilliant
RE: RE: Hernandez showed promise  
ajr2456 : 1/1/2020 5:57 pm : link
In comment 14750495 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14750467 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


His first year. Same oline coach, does he get credit for that? Same way Gettleman gets credit for Jones, but Shurmur didnít for him playing well.

It seems coaching are only an impact when Gettlemans players arenít playing well.


Wtf? A 2nd round draft pick SHOULD play well. How did he do after this coaching staff had some time with him? Itís absolutely hysterical that you completely ignore the numerous other points I made an zeroed in on Hernandez playing decently at times last season as evidence that the coaching is not an issue. Youíre right. Every fucking player Gettleman brought in sucks. And Reese before him. But thatís Gettlemans fault too apparently.

I canít even believe youíre making me defend Gettleman here. Heís done an awful job. But youíre hatred for him has made you look like an idiot here. Iím not rehashing what I already said in my previous post, youíll just ignore it anyways. Youíre right. Coaching doesnít mean shit when it comes to the OL. They all suck. Every single one of them brought in here the past 6 seasons. Coaching has been brilliant


Did I say the coaching was good? Like BW said above the coaching is bad and Gettleman hasnít been good at finding olinemen. Two things can be true at the same time.

If a GM is going to pound his chest at being some sort of ďhog mollie savantĒ, at least one of the players he brings in should show flashes of being something.

Hal Hunter isnít the reason Solder gets his shit pushed in whenever he plays an above average pass rusher.
RE: Many of us have been saying....  
crick n NC : 1/1/2020 6:08 pm : link
In comment 14750494 bw in dc said:
Quote:
that the players aren't that great and neither is the coaching. So the shopper and the cooks need to go.

I have a feeling there was some sympathy in the decision to keep Gettleman per the cancer scare. Even Mara mentioned it in his opening Monday. I get that on a human level to a degree, but he was still doing the job...


I think more thinking should be done to figure if one issue was a main source of the problems instead of just burning it all down without figuring out what we have.
I canít get past Syís ¬†
Dave on the UWS : 1/1/2020 6:21 pm : link
original scouting report on Hernandez. He had him as his I think 8th raided guard. He didnít like his lateral movement and recognition, things that have shown up in his two years here. If Sy is more capable of picking players than Gettleman, then as the late Bill Paxton said ď game over man!Ē We will continue to suck, with no hope.
I get what Gettleman has been doing behind the scenes. It just speaks to what a pathetic joke of a franchise they are, especially from a management standpoint. As far as Jones, being in shotgun every play, having him throw 40-50 times every game, telling the DL ďtee offĒ, emphasizes Jonesí weaknesses, not his strengths.
Frankly, John and Steve must not be seeing what we are. Gettleman has not been good enough to keep his job- UNLESS they hire a coach who will have a stronger hand in personnel.
RE: RE: RE: RE: To me  
allstarjim : 1/1/2020 10:27 pm : link
In comment 14750268 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 14750258 crick n NC said:


Quote:


In comment 14750226 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 14750023 crick n NC said:


Quote:


That is where you want to assign blame. Had these players played well the majority of your praise would have probably been towards the coaches for coaching up subpar players.



The person who brought in the players absolutely takes a large part of the blame. The entire offensive line was replaced, some positions twice over.

Omameh was cut. Solder might be, did the coaches teach him how to not be good anymore?



How much does bad coaching affect the players on the field? Gettleman has obviously neither been perfect or as bad as claimed. There have been mistakes and there are probably players that suffered from Shurmur.



Youíre over looking the fact that the entire offensive line was changed and if anything itís gotten worse. There havenít even been stretches of good play. That leans toward bad players.


Flowers was not better than Solder. Hernandez better than John Jerry or Justin Pugh, ditto with Zeitler. Remmers was significantly better than Hart, even though Remmers had some poor games.

The C play was better with Richburg/Jones, but every other position on that line was improved from 2017. Doesn't mean there still isn't more improvement to be had, but this just illustrates how big the problem was when DG took over in terms of a lack of talent. And not just at OL.
RE: I canít get past Syís ¬†
allstarjim : 1/1/2020 10:36 pm : link
In comment 14750573 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
original scouting report on Hernandez. He had him as his I think 8th raided guard. He didnít like his lateral movement and recognition, things that have shown up in his two years here. If Sy is more capable of picking players than Gettleman, then as the late Bill Paxton said ď game over man!Ē We will continue to suck, with no hope.
I get what Gettleman has been doing behind the scenes. It just speaks to what a pathetic joke of a franchise they are, especially from a management standpoint. As far as Jones, being in shotgun every play, having him throw 40-50 times every game, telling the DL ďtee offĒ, emphasizes Jonesí weaknesses, not his strengths.
Frankly, John and Steve must not be seeing what we are. Gettleman has not been good enough to keep his job- UNLESS they hire a coach who will have a stronger hand in personnel.


Hernandez was a homerun pick at the top of the 2nd and I believe he's a future All-Pro.

Sy said he looked lost on a stunt...that stunt, if I'm remembering correctly, Solder didn't pass his man, and allowed the outside guy to go by him nearly untouched.

Hernandez had been handling stunts very well in recent weeks, he's been really, really good. If you watch some of these games and the in on Hernandez, you see him dominate his man, sometimes making them look silly because of his superior strength. You'll see a lot of plays where the defense gets home on Jones, it looks like a whole OL failure, but Hernandez still has his guy stonewalled at the LOS when the whistle blows. I get that Sy is doubling down on his eval, and I'm not saying Will Hernandez gave us Bruce Matthews-level OG play this year, but what I am saying is he looks like a tremendously talented 24 y/o LG that is improving and has stretches of dominant play.

He is not the problem on that line, and the Giants will probably need to lock him up long-term soon...and they'll do that if they are smart because he is part of the solution, not the problem.
Sy, didn't you say before the season that if the Giants are wrong...  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/2/2020 10:03 am : link
...about Halapio that he could ruin the entire offense? JFC that turned our to be 100% true.
Finally got around to reading this..  
Metnut : 1/2/2020 11:00 am : link
it's amazing how bad Gettleman's hand picked OL is. We all better hope it's purely a coaching issue because otherwise, we just gave the architect the keys to another high draft pick and a lot of cap room.
Regarding Kaden Smith..  
EricJ : 1/2/2020 11:11 am : link
If we simply go with what we saw from Smith this season and what we know about Engram.... Smith is our starter next year. He is a better overall fit for the offense.

Engram is too much of a liability in the running game. I would prefer to trade him.
RE: Regarding Kaden Smith..  
Metnut : 1/2/2020 11:15 am : link
In comment 14751954 EricJ said:
Quote:
If we simply go with what we saw from Smith this season and what we know about Engram.... Smith is our starter next year. He is a better overall fit for the offense.

Engram is too much of a liability in the running game. I would prefer to trade him.


I'd be willing to roll the dice with Smith but Engram is still a useful player. Could we recoup a mid-late third rounder for Engram?
They should keep  
ajr2456 : 1/2/2020 11:18 am : link
Engram and use him and Smith like the Eagles use Goeddert and Ertz
They've cycled out offensive line coaches too.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/2/2020 11:34 am : link
Pat Flaherty got fired for his inability to make a good OL
The next guy, who had a track record of coaching good OLs, came here and failed to make a good OL.

Now hunter, who doesn't have a resume, has also failed to make a good OL.

It's not just players or coaching. It's a fundamental problem with evaluating offensive linemen.
RE: They've cycled out offensive line coaches too.  
ajr2456 : 1/2/2020 11:36 am : link
In comment 14752024 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Pat Flaherty got fired for his inability to make a good OL
The next guy, who had a track record of coaching good OLs, came here and failed to make a good OL.

Now hunter, who doesn't have a resume, has also failed to make a good OL.

It's not just players or coaching. It's a fundamental problem with evaluating offensive linemen.


This. Like I said yesterday, if we were evaluating offensive lineman correctly thereíd at least be progress or someone shining through poor coaching. Coaching isnít the only reason, and I think some are overrating the impact of position coaches. Is Bill Callahan going to come here and make this same line elite? Probably not but there will be improvement, but probably not as much as people expect.
RE: They should keep  
EricJ : 1/2/2020 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14751980 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Engram and use him and Smith like the Eagles use Goeddert and Ertz


Maybe... or trade him to the Pats. They truly realize how much they miss Gronk this year.
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