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4th pick Clemson LB Isaiah Simmons

Big Daddy : 1/6/2020 3:44 pm
Analysis: “New York gets one of the best and most versatile defenders in the 2020 class at No. 4 overall. I love Simmons& #65533; potential and that he can play literally anywhere. He lines up at linebacker, in the slot, and at single-high safety. He displayed great range on an interception in the College Football Playoff semifinals that shows he's not a normal LB.& #65533;

The next Lawrance Taylor?
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This is the coverage LB we have need for years  
larryflower37 : 1/6/2020 4:14 pm : link
He can run with most TE, I would say more Carl Banks than LT.
An interesting fact he broke OBJ's 200-meter record in HS.
Simmons  
stretch234 : 1/6/2020 4:19 pm : link
How do you come away from the Ohio St game, against the best competition he played against all year and think he is an NFL LB

The closer he got to the LOS the worse he looked

Not touching him at 4

There was a huge discussion about Simmons last week her on BBI.  
TMS : 1/6/2020 4:30 pm : link
You might want to check it out.
no  
Nick in LA : 1/6/2020 4:34 pm : link
Left Tackle only.
Are we allowed  
Darth Paul : 1/6/2020 4:35 pm : link
to draft a LB that high. I heard on BBI that it is too high for a RB, WR, Safety and TE.
Well  
idiotsavant : 1/6/2020 4:38 pm : link
If he's a safety our need is to have a deep safety that diagnoses really well, takes great angles and has great speed to break on the ball or carrier .

If not that, if still useful , you still want to (also) look for that in the draft.

You really need to stack 3 pass defenders in addition to your cornerbacks, be it a lb and two free safety types or what have you.
He Looks the part  
Manning10 : 1/6/2020 4:38 pm : link
But where is the production?
IF no trade offer materializes...  
Torrag : 1/6/2020 4:40 pm : link
Simmons 'could be' the top guy on our draft board. That said I do believe there will be at least one trade up for a QB this year. If that happens then we'll have a choice of Young or Okudah at #4...probably Okudah. I don't think we'd pass on the top CB for a LB/S despite the fact I think he's a really good player.
"sy'  
idiotsavant : 1/6/2020 4:42 pm : link
"where you at"?
You have to have a really well thought plan  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/6/2020 4:43 pm : link
for using him. He needs to be able to run free to the ball as he isn't great at shedding blocks. That said, he can be a weapon. But you don't take a guy like this without the imagination to use him.
RE: no  
short lease : 1/6/2020 4:44 pm : link
In comment 14761374 Nick in LA said:
Quote:
Left Tackle only.


Thomas from Georgia please - we need an O line.
RE: You have to have a really well thought plan  
KeoweeFan : 1/6/2020 4:53 pm : link
In comment 14761397 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
for using him. He needs to be able to run free to the ball as he isn't great at shedding blocks. That said, he can be a weapon. But you don't take a guy like this without the imagination to use him.

As a Clemson fanatic, I'm high on Simmons. But I certainly agree with the other comments that his value is dependent on the right scheme that fits his versatility.

He is a classic "coach on the field"; don't know if others have noticed but when Clemson cleared the bench in the 4Q (virtually every game), Venables left Isaiah in to give direction to the rookies and 4th stringers (and presumably because of his range, to reduce the chance of a complete disaster with the newbies).
I don’t understand the thinking  
prdave73 : 1/6/2020 5:01 pm : link
around here sometimes. What has been the number problem the Giants have been having for several years now?? Oline.. The entire NFC East including the playofff teams have one thing in common, great offensive lines! This should be the number one priority going into the draft! Unless Chase Young is available, then he would be the exception. This draft must be real good and safe.. No gambling and taking chances..
i don't think Simmons is risky at all  
markky : 1/6/2020 5:07 pm : link
you just have to know that you're getting primarily a back of the defense player. he's been productive for two years and the best defender on Clemson's defense this year (which gave up about 20 ppg).

i'd have no problem with him. I think he's less risky than Thomas.
Too High for an ILB  
DanielJonesNYG8 : 1/6/2020 5:22 pm : link
At 4 they are best off with an edge pass rusher, an OT, while also looking at opportunities to slide back a couple slots and adding picks.
RE: I don’t understand the thinking  
cokeduplt : 1/6/2020 5:32 pm : link
In comment 14761425 prdave73 said:
Quote:
around here sometimes. What has been the number problem the Giants have been having for several years now?? Oline.. The entire NFC East including the playofff teams have one thing in common, great offensive lines! This should be the number one priority going into the draft! Unless Chase Young is available, then he would be the exception. This draft must be real good and safe.. No gambling and taking chances..



Our number 1 problem this year was defense.
'Thomas from Georgia please - [b]we need[/b] an O line.'  
Torrag : 1/6/2020 5:34 pm : link
We need...Terrible reason to draft any player. Trust your board. Why the Hell do you spend literally millions to have a draft ranking if you're not going to follow it.

If Okudah or Simmons are at the top of the board and available either take them or trade down.
RE: RE: I don’t understand the thinking  
DanielJonesNYG8 : 1/6/2020 5:36 pm : link
In comment 14761492 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
In comment 14761425 prdave73 said:


Quote:


around here sometimes. What has been the number problem the Giants have been having for several years now?? Oline.. The entire NFC East including the playofff teams have one thing in common, great offensive lines! This should be the number one priority going into the draft! Unless Chase Young is available, then he would be the exception. This draft must be real good and safe.. No gambling and taking chances..




Our number 1 problem this year was defense.


Gettleman is going to prioritize the pass rush and offensive tackle. He’s already on record saying everyone East of the Pacific knows we need a pass rusher. He’s not gonna take a hybrid ILB 4.
The next WHO?  
Dave in PA : 1/6/2020 5:42 pm : link
What about Isaiah Simmons’ game suggests he’s anything like LT?
RE: The next WHO?  
DanielJonesNYG8 : 1/6/2020 5:47 pm : link
In comment 14761523 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
What about Isaiah Simmons’ game suggests he’s anything like LT?


The guy Simmons profiles like is a more slender version of Brian Urlacher. Tall, versatile player who converted from S to ILB. I like the player, just not for us. Two goals:

Get to the QB

Fix this Oline
RE: 'Thomas from Georgia please - [b]we need[/b] an O line.'  
short lease : 1/6/2020 5:47 pm : link
In comment 14761496 Torrag said:
Quote:
We need...Terrible reason to draft any player. Trust your board. Why the Hell do you spend literally millions to have a draft ranking if you're not going to follow it.

If Okudah or Simmons are at the top of the board and available either take them or trade down.


Whether we take him or not he will be a top 10 pick. How do you know where the Giants have any of those 3 players ranked?
And the  
XBRONX : 1/6/2020 5:49 pm : link
great edge rusher at 4 is?
'How do you know where the Giants have any of those 3 players ranked?'  
Torrag : 1/6/2020 5:54 pm : link
It's called an opinion. Kinda what we do here. I don't think Thomas is a Top 5 pick. None of this OT class are. So the smart move is to always get 'value' when picking. If we'd followed that philosophy we wouldn't have drafted Flowers.

In two drafts it appears DG has been right and drafted the BPA both times.
RE: And the  
DanielJonesNYG8 : 1/6/2020 6:00 pm : link
In comment 14761542 XBRONX said:
Quote:
great edge rusher at 4 is?


I still have hope QB hungry teams move up to 2-3 for Tua/Herbert to the Giants at 4. I think it’s more likely Skins stay at 2 and take Young and Lions deal 3 to whoever offers the most to take Tua. That would leave Epenesa and the OTs for the Giants at 4. They can select the player they love the most. Epenesa is an excellent rusher and the guy plays mean. He turns his hips, he’s not stiff. Can use both speed and power.
REACH  
Thankyoueli : 1/6/2020 6:07 pm : link
Simmons at 4 is the kinda pick Jerry Reese would make.

Athletic, tweener, just dont let him know he plays LB and he'd be all over it. Simmons will be a good player, probably on Kwon Alexander's level. No where near worth the 4th pick though, he's half the prospect Jaylon Smith and even Myles Jack were.
RE: 'How do you know where the Giants have any of those 3 players ranked?'  
DanielJonesNYG8 : 1/6/2020 6:16 pm : link
In comment 14761552 Torrag said:
Quote:
It's called an opinion. Kinda what we do here. I don't think Thomas is a Top 5 pick. None of this OT class are. So the smart move is to always get 'value' when picking. If we'd followed that philosophy we wouldn't have drafted Flowers.

In two drafts it appears DG has been right and drafted the BPA both times.


You think he got the 2018 draft right? Really?
You think he got the 2018 draft right? Really?  
Torrag : 1/6/2020 6:17 pm : link
He obviously got the #2 pick right. Saquon produced over 2K yards and won rookie of the year. Do you follow the team?
'he's half the prospect Jaylon Smith and even Myles Jack were'  
Torrag : 1/6/2020 6:20 pm : link
Stats don't support that position. He was more productive than both guys best years this season. It will be exciting to see his final game in the National Championship. Hopefully he can put a nice cherry on top of a great season.
RE: You think he got the 2018 draft right? Really?  
DanielJonesNYG8 : 1/6/2020 6:25 pm : link
In comment 14761599 Torrag said:
Quote:
He obviously got the #2 pick right. Saquon produced over 2K yards and won rookie of the year. Do you follow the team?


Ok. Not getting into this. The league MVP went 32. A guy with 500 more yards rushing went 33. A HOF G went 6 and Indy got 3 round 2 picks to go with him. I think Gettleman had a very good 2019 draft aside from the Baker deal, but the 2018 draft was a C to this point and trending in the wrong direction. Gettleman has had 2 FA periods and 2 drafts and has nailed 1/4(the 19 draft). His trades have been disastrous picks for Ogletree and a few games of Williams. I hope they give Rhule control of personnel. Let Gettleman help with the technical parts of the job.
If the consensus is “He’s the guy”  
morrison40 : 1/6/2020 6:26 pm : link
Pick him at 4 unless Miami is willing to trade up 1 spot for the QB. As Gettleman likes to say “Don’t get cute “ That’s why they took Jones at 6.
'Ok. Not getting into this.'  
Torrag : 1/6/2020 6:34 pm : link
You seem to have gotten into it. LOL. I'll stand by my simple statement that at #2 in 2018 and #6 in 2019 DG got the BPA.
RE: RE: RE: I don’t understand the thinking  
cokeduplt : 1/6/2020 6:48 pm : link
In comment 14761504 DanielJonesNYG8 said:
Quote:
In comment 14761492 cokeduplt said:


Quote:


In comment 14761425 prdave73 said:


Quote:


around here sometimes. What has been the number problem the Giants have been having for several years now?? Oline.. The entire NFC East including the playofff teams have one thing in common, great offensive lines! This should be the number one priority going into the draft! Unless Chase Young is available, then he would be the exception. This draft must be real good and safe.. No gambling and taking chances..




Our number 1 problem this year was defense.



Gettleman is going to prioritize the pass rush and offensive tackle. He’s already on record saying everyone East of the Pacific knows we need a pass rusher. He’s not gonna take a hybrid ILB 4.


He might not but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t. I guess you enjoy watching Olgletree trying to cover people
RE: The next WHO?  
bw in dc : 1/6/2020 6:54 pm : link
In comment 14761523 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
What about Isaiah Simmons’ game suggests he’s anything like LT?


Absolutely nothing.

The last person I thought reminded me of LT was Lavar Arrington when he was at PSU. He was exhibiting similar athleticism and relentlessness. But as it turned out all of those skills didn't convey to the pros. Still a good pro...but not in the same universe as Lawrence...
RE: RE: RE: RE: I don’t understand the thinking  
DanielJonesNYG8 : 1/6/2020 7:09 pm : link
In comment 14761652 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
In comment 14761504 DanielJonesNYG8 said:


Quote:


In comment 14761492 cokeduplt said:


Quote:


In comment 14761425 prdave73 said:


Quote:


around here sometimes. What has been the number problem the Giants have been having for several years now?? Oline.. The entire NFC East including the playofff teams have one thing in common, great offensive lines! This should be the number one priority going into the draft! Unless Chase Young is available, then he would be the exception. This draft must be real good and safe.. No gambling and taking chances..




Our number 1 problem this year was defense.



Gettleman is going to prioritize the pass rush and offensive tackle. He’s already on record saying everyone East of the Pacific knows we need a pass rusher. He’s not gonna take a hybrid ILB 4.



He might not but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t. I guess you enjoy watching Olgletree trying to cover people


Not at all. I’d release Ogletree. That does not mean the resource that replaces Ogletree needs to be the # 4 pick though. This team has a ton of caproom to sign FAs or make trade acquisitions. I would not mind moving Carter inside next to Connelly. This will all have time more discussion after they hire a DC and we know the scheme. They could switch to a 4-3 if they choose, there are enough hollow spots that the roster isn’t solely committed to a 3-4.
RE: I would LOVE this pick  
TommyWiseau : 1/6/2020 8:13 pm : link
In comment 14761290 nyjuggernaut2 said:
Quote:
He reminds me of Edmunds on the Bills.


This is a really good comp for Simmons
Did anyone watch him play?  
chilly460 : 1/6/2020 8:48 pm : link
It’s clear by half the comments they’ve never seen him play. No shit he’s not an ILB!!! And anyone talking about how his build doesn’t fit a profile is an idiot, and the same reason Aaron Donald dropped even though he had insane production and a combine to back it up.

No, Simmons isn’t a thumper, what he is is a PERFECT modern LB who can cover backs and TE and possibly slot, who also happens to be a great blitzer. No, he’s not a 255lb edge rusher and I have no idea why people think he is. He can cover, he’s a great sure tackler, he can blitz, and he has instincts and IQ for the game.
RE: I would LOVE this pick  
DanielJonesNYG8 : 1/6/2020 8:59 pm : link
In comment 14761290 nyjuggernaut2 said:
Quote:
He reminds me of Edmunds on the Bills.


Edmunds had a PFF grade of 59, which is an average LB
If we hire Rhule  
AdamBrag : 1/6/2020 9:58 pm : link
Simmons is pretty much a perfect fit in his 3-3-5 defense.
Jake Carlock  
Philu916 : 1/6/2020 10:37 pm : link
But a little bit better is what he reminds me of. Sorry but no chance should he be #4. Giants had Carlock and let him go. Simmons is obviously better than Carlock, but that’s the type of player he is. Don’t know if he will flourish in the NFL without a real position.
RE: He Looks the part  
nowturnyourheadandcoughlin : 1/6/2020 10:51 pm : link
In comment 14761384 Manning10 said:
Quote:
But where is the production?
Where's the production? You mean like the 96 tackles he had on the year. Or the 7 sacks and 14 QB hurries that he had. Those numbers are even more impressive when you realize he wasn't playing a traditional LB role on all of his snaps. He was playing deep safety, he was lining up in the slot against WRs. He lined up against some of the fastest WRs in college football in press man. He's the Butkus award winner for best LB in the country. Look at the least of former Butkus winners in the last 10 years:
2010 Von Miller Texas A&M
2011 Luke Kuechly Boston College
2012 Manti Te'o Notre Dame
2013 C.J. Mosley Alabama
2014 Eric Kendricks UCLA
2015 Jaylon Smith[3] Notre Dame
2016 Reuben Foster[4] Alabama
2017 Roquan Smith Georgia
2018 Devin White LSU

The problem is the old school football minds who can't envision a player this freakish. They want to complain about him not filling one role. If that's the problem, then don't be a modern defensive coordinator. This guy should be switching roles, be all over the field just like how Derwin James is used. Football is evolving, don't be extinct with the other football dinosaurs.
if we grade him high enough for #4 we'll be lucky to have him  
MM_in_NYC : 1/6/2020 11:09 pm : link
he's an amazing fit for what the nfl has become and will continue to evolve into. yes, coaches will need use him correctly. no that shouldn't deter from drafting him
RE: 'Thomas from Georgia please - [b]we need[/b] an O line.'  
giantstock : 1/7/2020 1:58 am : link
In comment 14761496 Torrag said:
Quote:
We need...Terrible reason to draft any player. Trust your board. Why the Hell do you spend literally millions to have a draft ranking if you're not going to follow it.

If Okudah or Simmons are at the top of the board and available either take them or trade down.



SO what the young QB is getting beat up. So what that hes the number 1 most important position on the field. So while he is getting badly beaten up at least he can take solace in knowing the giants chose their draft board over giving him, the young QB (and rb) the best possible players ot both protect and enhance their skills.
RE: You think he got the 2018 draft right? Really?  
giantstock : 1/7/2020 2:11 am : link
In comment 14761599 Torrag said:
Quote:
He obviously got the #2 pick right. Saquon produced over 2K yards and won rookie of the year. Do you follow the team?


Do you follow football or just follow stats?

It is still questionable if he got SB right. You did notice he got hurt this year, right? Isn't that why some say you don;t take a RB so early; they get hurt much more easily?

Secondly, without a decent OL-- you realize SB wont be very productive vs good caliber teams, right? SO when are you going to make your move on the OLINE? It's possible your draft board won't have the an Ol position than you need when your pick comes up until maybe in later rounds.

If SB ends up being just a "boom or bust" RB leading to playoff success - you mean there could have been no other option to take instead that would have been better?
RE: RE: You think he got the 2018 draft right? Really?  
giantstock : 1/7/2020 8:14 am : link
In comment 14762049 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14761599 Torrag said:


Quote:


He obviously got the #2 pick right. Saquon produced over 2K yards and won rookie of the year. Do you follow the team?



Do you follow football or just follow stats?

It is still questionable if he got SB right. You did notice he got hurt this year, right? Isn't that why some say you don;t take a RB so early; they get hurt much more easily?

Secondly, without a decent OL-- you realize SB wont be very productive vs good caliber teams, right? SO when are you going to make your move on the OLINE? It's possible your draft board won't have the an Ol position than you need when your pick comes up until maybe in later rounds.

If SB ends up being just a "boom or bust" RB leading to playoff success - you mean there could have been no other option to take instead that would have been better?


In lasts para I meant -- If SB ends up being just a "boom or bust" RB leading to NO playoff success
This reminds me of the discussions regarding Leonard Floyd.  
Klaatu : 1/7/2020 8:27 am : link
Not that they're similar players, only that the debate is similar.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I haven't seen enough of Simmons to make an intelligent or accurate call on him, but I've seen varied opinions from several posters I respect, and I appreciate the arguments from both sides.

I will say this, though, with regard to the comparison to LT. Sixteen years ago I wanted the Giants to draft Sean Taylor at #4. I thought he'd revolutionize the Safety position much like LT did for LB. Well, in his brief career that ended so tragically, he didn't quite do that, but I do think he more than justified his draft status. So whomever drafts Simmons (and wherever they draft him), I figure he'll be worth keeping an eye on, just to see what kind of impact he has on his position, and on the league going forward.
I like Simmons, but any comp to LT  
Section331 : 1/7/2020 8:34 am : link
is simply ridiculous. Apart from the fact that we haven't seen anyone in the draft like LT in 38 years, Simmons isn't that type of player. He is not an elite ER, he can get to the QB, but he has to be schemed to do it. He's not a natural pass rusher like LT was.

He's not nearly the tackler LT was. When LT hit you, you stayed hit. Simmons needs some work there.
RE: Depends on if we have a defensive coordinator creative enough to use  
Jersey55 : 1/7/2020 5:16 pm : link
In comment 14761292 jlukes said:
Quote:
Him all over and not just pigeon hole him into a position

WADE PHILLIPS
RE: RE: He Looks the part  
Nine-Tails : 1/7/2020 6:02 pm : link
In comment 14761971 nowturnyourheadandcoughlin said:
Quote:
In comment 14761384 Manning10 said:


Quote:


But where is the production?

Where's the production? You mean like the 96 tackles he had on the year. Or the 7 sacks and 14 QB hurries that he had. Those numbers are even more impressive when you realize he wasn't playing a traditional LB role on all of his snaps. He was playing deep safety, he was lining up in the slot against WRs. He lined up against some of the fastest WRs in college football in press man. He's the Butkus award winner for best LB in the country. Look at the least of former Butkus winners in the last 10 years:
2010 Von Miller Texas A&M
2011 Luke Kuechly Boston College
2012 Manti Te'o Notre Dame
2013 C.J. Mosley Alabama
2014 Eric Kendricks UCLA
2015 Jaylon Smith[3] Notre Dame
2016 Reuben Foster[4] Alabama
2017 Roquan Smith Georgia
2018 Devin White LSU

The problem is the old school football minds who can't envision a player this freakish. They want to complain about him not filling one role. If that's the problem, then don't be a modern defensive coordinator. This guy should be switching roles, be all over the field just like how Derwin James is used. Football is evolving, don't be extinct with the other football dinosaurs.


This, exactly
RE: I like Simmons, but any comp to LT  
giantstock : 1/7/2020 7:59 pm : link
In comment 14762201 Section331 said:
Quote:
is simply ridiculous. Apart from the fact that we haven't seen anyone in the draft like LT in 38 years, Simmons isn't that type of player. He is not an elite ER, he can get to the QB, but he has to be schemed to do it. He's not a natural pass rusher like LT was.

He's not nearly the tackler LT was. When LT hit you, you stayed hit. Simmons needs some work there.


=1(000000000000000000000000000000)

LT arguably the greatest defensive player ever and you have a whacko comment comparing this kid to him.
Hah, hah...hah  
cznmike : 1/8/2020 7:28 am : link
Unfortunately the Giants only look at the slowest LB to draft in the 3rd-6th rounds, or the oldest FA to sign to contracts that create champagne showers for their agents.
Probably going to draft another safety or cornerback to let walk away as soon as his rookie contract expires.
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