Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
The #Panthers are hiring #Baylor coach Matt Rhule, source says (as @PeteThamel
reported). They are working out the deal as we speak. They did not want him to get on the plane to the #Giants.
46s
The #Panthers had a top two of Josh McDaniels and Matt Rhule. Owner David Tepper spent yesterday in Waco with Rhule and his family, and he heard enough. Rather than risk Rhule getting on the plane, he made a deal. Rhule is now Carolinas coach.
RE: Glazer, the most connected reporter has said Gettleman
But depending on the reasoning why he didn't even interview with the Giants will be a wake up call in how they go about these types of situations and re-tool/restructure things.
You can't even get someone in the door who considers working for you as their dream job.
Really pathetic.
Go on twitter, complain tagging the Giants page, write letters, do whatever you can. If the fans don't force change our inept front office won't do it on their own.
1m
Former Baylor HC Matt Rhule is taking the Carolina Panthers HC job, as @PeteThamel
reported. Rhule was supposed to interview today with the Giants; he didnt make it there.
But depending on the reasoning why he didn't even interview with the Giants will be a wake up call in how they go about these types of situations and re-tool/restructure things.
That's not about Gettleman, it is Tepper giving him a deal he couldn't pass up.
No. its about the fact that they were outsmarted by a smarter owner who showed him a better plan for success, analytics, systems, controls. Meanwhile the Giants have Gettleman and "4 computer guys".
He was part of the second tier of candidates, but according to an NFL source he was the most impressive in the interviews. He's a commanding presence, has a lot of NFL experience, and a source said he did tell the Giants his intention was to bring in LSU passing coordinator Joe Brady -- the 30-year-old wizard who transformed quarterback Joe Burrow into a Heisman Trophy winner -- as his offensive coordinator. If the Giants are spurned by Rhule and don't want to waste time, they could turn right to "Wink". Link - ( New Window )
The team doesn't know how to get what it wants. If Rhule really was your guy you were there when he got off the plane from vacation. Lost the 2 best fits already.
but maybe it's for the best. This is a pretty big wake-up call for Giants brass. Absolute power move by Tepper. Lost out on Rivera, McCarthy and now our "top guy."
We know McDaniel's doesn't want to come here. We'd be lucky to even get Garrett at this point. Sad.
the difference is it hasn't come out and I wouldn't deny it
Quote:
It could come out he didnt want to work with Gettleman and youd still deny it.
The flip side is absent proof, you automatically jump to it being Gettleman's fault without knowing what Carolina promised him and anything else. He's hired by Carolina and poof - Gettleman's fault.
is that the Giants aren't willing to be aggressive enough. If Rhule was the guy they wanted then they should of been in Waco yesterday, instead they wanted him to come into NJ and therefore allowed Carolina to get the first interview.
is a huge negative factor for prospective head coaches.
Exactly, but the DG dead-enders refuse to acknowledge that. Remember when the reports came out that Rhule would have no problem working with DG, and the DG apologists bent themselves backwards with glee?
The league is changing, and to use Parcells' parlance, if the HC's are cooking the meal, they want to buy the groceries. The Mara's better wake up to this soon.
never even took a fucking meeting with them. Yeah, all is well. The roster is budding with young talent and a franchise quarterback and Gettleman is not at all an obstacle in this coaching search. Everybody wants the Giants job. What a joke.
Chills. Over a coaching (non)hire. This is how pathetic we've become. Lower than the Browns. Rooting for them has become pathetic right under our noses.
Picking 4th picking 1st what's the fucking difference. We'll pick top 4 for the next 11 years. You'll see it won't make a fucking difference.
Jones should demand a trade.
Just yesterday I said that if the Giants lose out on Rhule, people are going to say they were too slow with the process after clamoring for them to be more thorough this time
Quote:
Stop defending people when you don't know what the fuck happened and you have been wrong about literally everything for 3 straight years.
Looks like this blind squirrel found a nut. A whole fucking bag of them on BBI....
Not even getting your top candidate in for an interview when it was supposedly his dream job is a massive red flag.
The it either wasn't really his dream job or someone had to make the offer so enticing that you give up your dream. There's really no realistic or honest way to look at it other than Carolina put a horse head in his bed.
I agree, but I'm OK with that. I think McDaniel is a rich man's Pat Shurmur - good OC, but not inspirational, and with a thin skin. I think he would be eaten alive in NY.
RE: Glazer, the most connected reporter has said Gettleman
There is no other way to slice it anymore, the Giants are a joke. Yesterday, when I was trying to say they would not get Rhule because they were conservative/cheap, this is what I meant. They were not bold enough to go to Waco to meet with him immediately. They let Carolina beat them to the punch.
Now, they will hire Jason Garrett, which was what everybody knew would happen 3 months ago. Mara/Gettleman/Abrams can continue to run this organization to the ground.
Gettleman needs to be fired immediately, so we can get a real coach in here.
That's not about Gettleman, it is Tepper giving him a deal he couldn't pass up.
No. its about the fact that they were outsmarted by a smarter owner who showed him a better plan for success, analytics, systems, controls. Meanwhile the Giants have Gettleman and "4 computer guys".
This is Probably pretty close to what made him go with the panthers
Well boys I've tried to stay at least a bit positive/optimistic
Whoever the next head coach, we have to hope he hires a DC, OC, OLC, LBC, etc who are whole a lot better than what we had in 2019.
This is why all the other teams brunch to get this done all the good quarternight or hires are going to be gone because We will be last in filling our head coaching position.
Just yesterday I said that if the Giants lose out on Rhule, people are going to say they were too slow with the process after clamoring for them to be more thorough this time
Quote:
Stop defending people when you don't know what the fuck happened and you have been wrong about literally everything for 3 straight years.
Looks like this blind squirrel found a nut. A whole fucking bag of them on BBI....
Can you let me know how it feels to be wrong about everything all the time?
top candidate wants to come under a lame duck GM who may not survive another season. What would happen if a new coach comes, and the Giants struggle next season? Gettleman gets fired and a new GM comes in with a coach that he may not have wanted?
Now a days, the coach and GM have to be hired and built together. Mara royally screwed this one up by keeping Gettleman.
is that the Giants aren't willing to be aggressive enough. If Rhule was the guy they wanted then they should of been in Waco yesterday, instead they wanted him to come into NJ and therefore allowed Carolina to get the first interview.
Yep. There is a sense of entitlement in the Giant front office, like we're the Giants, you come to us. May have been true 20 years ago, but not any longer.
Lack of urgency and leadership. Does anyone think that if Mara and Tisch weren't born into the positions/familial wealth they were - that they would be leading an organization within a few orders of magnitude of the New York Football Giants? No fucking way. Tepper on the other hand is that type of guy - and he just punched them in the dick.
Thank God the Mets finally got sold.
All that being said - who knows how these guys shake out as head coaches - we can always luck out - blind squirrel gets the nut like someone was saying on here yesterday.
Why take the first job offered? HE knows he will have a few offers, it doesn't seem like the smart move to me. At least hear everyone out.
He probably knew the basic structure of what the NYG were offering (years, money, organizational control) and Carolina probably blew that away in every regard. He MUST have known the Giants couldnt compete so he didnt waste his time.
From @gmfb: The #Panthers swooped in and hired #Baylor coach Matt Rhule in a stealth move. One big draw was #Panthers owner David Tepper being willing to put money into the sports science program that Rhule wants. Resources wont be a problem.
but it's our only hope at this point. We need McDaniels and Brady to push Belichick out the door. If you're McDaniels, do you want to coach the Browns, Giants or Patriots?
the most connected NFL reporter, (especially after he called the Beckham trade), who said that Gettleman is a huge negative factor for prospective head coaches.
Combine that with the two coaches that everyone connected said were the top of the Giants list (Rhule and McCarthy) quickly spurning the Giants, it looks like the Giants with Gettleman aren't a desirable destination.
I still can't believe they retained this guy given how awful his hand picked OL performed the past two years. Just doesn't make sense.
Oh well, since the top candidates are gone the Giants have to be disciplined here and resist the urge to do something quick and panic. The time to move fast for the top candidates is over. Might as well continue interviewing whomever they want and see who can interview the best and make a decision.
I really really wanted Rhule but he's gone. There has to be an available candidate that will be a good NFL coach. Up to the Giants to find that person.
is that the Giants aren't willing to be aggressive enough. If Rhule was the guy they wanted then they should of been in Waco yesterday, instead they wanted him to come into NJ and therefore allowed Carolina to get the first interview.
This right here is the entire story. If Glazer and the other reports were right that he was the Giants top choice, you don't wait around, you get on the plane.
Now, you have the hottest up and coming coach in football going to Charlotte where they have a QB situation that is in flux, and less to work with in young talent than here, which was the supposed preferred destination.
Something is rotten at the top. The best the Giants can hope for now is to have a happy accident with the head coach hire, which won't happen if they hire Garrett, which now seems almost inevitable.
when you bring a total clown like Gettleman back. Rhule wouldnt even interview with them. DG is a total anchor for the franchise. You people who wanted him back got your wish, now coaches wont even interview with Giants
1. Martindale/Brady
2. McDaniels (fire Gettleman, bring on Casserio)
3. Pretend to do 2. with the intention of putting pressure on Kraft to move on from Little Bill. Say your prayers. Get Little Bill.
4. Sell the fucking franchise!
Trying to stay positive and see what comes of the remaining candidates. Intrigued by the Martindale/Brady combination....we'll see if anything develops.
But this idea that the Giants are some great, sought-after job is, and always was, a total fantasy.
Garrett. It will be a terrible move that will indicate that those who bashed the FO have been right all along.
Absolutely. The fact that the Giants weren't even given the opportunity to meet with Rhule is very troubling. I am resolved to the fact that Garrett is going to be next head coach.
as an organization seem to be a less attractive landing spot for coaching talent - not just HC... How much of that is on Jon Mara vs DG, vs the whole front office, whole scouting department, I dunno. But while we sense dysfunction as outsiders, the coaching community is certainly more plugged in via agents and other coaches. They know the situation, and are avoiding it.
This can no longer be denied.
Can we at least consider the possibility that the Giants
This was supposedly this guy's dream job. He's a local guy. Most of the people who defend the FO insisted that this was an attractive destination because of the personnel (Jones + Barkley).
He didn't even come in for an interview. Can we consider the possibility that maybe the FO structure and/or personnel are a negative factor here?
They met him in Waco as soon as he got back from vacation. Giants wanted him to come to them for meeting. This allowed Tepper to get in first. Link - ( New Window )
Just yesterday I said that if the Giants lose out on Rhule, people are going to say they were too slow with the process after clamoring for them to be more thorough this time
Quote:
Stop defending people when you don't know what the fuck happened and you have been wrong about literally everything for 3 straight years.
Looks like this blind squirrel found a nut. A whole fucking bag of them on BBI....
Of course you said that I would have said that too. The reason you could predict that line of argument IS because it would be true. I have hired people for 3 decades, delaying the interview of someone you want is a risk. You want someone you go get get them. The Giants failed. AGAIN.
From @gmfb: The #Panthers swooped in and hired #Baylor coach Matt Rhule in a stealth move. One big draw was #Panthers owner David Tepper being willing to put money into the sports science program that Rhule wants. Resources wont be a problem.
but we just hired 4 computer guys! They have wireless keyboards and everything!
Garrett. It will be a terrible move that will indicate that those who bashed the FO have been right all along.
Book marking this thread, because the spin will be in full force with FMiC once Garrett is on board.
Go right ahead. It will be like the Reeves hire. I'll be dead set against it until he can prove that he'll win. Reeves never did and turned us into the NJ Broncos.
I'm not an organization apologist - I'm more of a bashing of people with knee-jerk and idiotic takes. You make it sound l;ike I've never criticized a coach or FO person before.
They met him in Waco as soon as he got back from vacation. Giants wanted him to come to them for meeting. This allowed Tepper to get in first. Link - ( New Window )
What a cluster. This organization is completely lost.
Rhule's #1 requirement to leave college for the NFL was to "have your QB".
That's the Panthers?
these guys talk out of their ass constantly, they're all salesmen trying to maximize their earnings like anyone else.
Quote:
...I think A) you need to have a quarterback, and B) you need to have alignment...
Perhaps there is someone in this draft that he will want and Carolina has said they would make sure they get. I doubt he had B with the Giants or he would have at least gone on an interview with them.
is quite an indictment, given that the job is in the best market in the country. Now, for the third straight hire, we will get someone who nobody else wants. We are the laughingstock of the league at this point.
when you bring a total clown like Gettleman back. Rhule wouldnt even interview with them. DG is a total anchor for the franchise. You people who wanted him back got your wish, now coaches wont even interview with Giants
Garrett. It will be a terrible move that will indicate that those who bashed the FO have been right all along.
Book marking this thread, because the spin will be in full force with FMiC once Garrett is on board.
Lax - it probably won't be a full frontal defense of the hire on the merits (at least not at first). It will start as "the media backlash is just way over the top." But the homers will all eventually get there. It is their destiny.
He is a college coach. They don't necessarily translate well to the NFL. This would have been a risky hire unless he brought in NFL coordinators. The Giants are probably better off with a guy with more NFL experience.
From @gmfb: The #Panthers swooped in and hired #Baylor coach Matt Rhule in a stealth move. One big draw was #Panthers owner David Tepper being willing to put money into the sports science program that Rhule wants. Resources wont be a problem.
but we just hired 4 computer guys! They have wireless keyboards and everything!
Just watched the video. Its interesting that Tepper is willing to put the money into sports science and yet you don't interview with the other team to see if they are willing to do the same? Video also said that Rhule was so impressive they decided to hire him and cancel the McDaniels interview. This has me a little concerned about McDaniels and his perception around the league
Rhule praised Gettleman in this interview in Dec 2017.
zachgelb's profile picture
zachgelb
Matt Rhule on Giants and Dave Gettleman
Back in late December of 2017 I interviewed Matt Rhule and the #Giants and Dave Gettleman did come up. Matt praised Dave calling him first class and a football man.
1w Link - ( New Window )
They met him in Waco as soon as he got back from vacation. Giants wanted him to come to them for meeting. This allowed Tepper to get in first. Link - ( New Window )
Typical behavior from this backwards thinking organization.
RE: Hopefully, they don't fall apart and hire Garrett
when you bring a total clown like Gettleman back. Rhule wouldnt even interview with them. DG is a total anchor for the franchise. You people who wanted him back got your wish, now coaches wont even interview with Giants
is why has the Giants and Rhule been so publicly pronounced for weeks?
If you look at the other three hires in Carolina, Dallas and Washington, their intentions on who they are looking at were never completed clear.
For the Giants, about 99% of the focus was on one man. How is that possible?
The team couldn't keep its intentions close to the vest? It is always a risky situation when everyone else has an inkling of who you are targeting and in the case of Carolina, once the interview was supposed to the "moved" to Jersey, that was all the opening they needed to swoop right in and do the business.
if he left the building today without a contract. Well, he never made it to the building.
It has to be McDaniels or BB as HC and the Giants have to get rid of DG. I was not all in for Rhule as he is WAY unproven but, it seems obvious Rhule got what he wanted to not even listen to the Giants.
I suspect the Giants knew they would lose out which is why the changed the meeting to NJ. They had to know Carolina was offering more $$ and control than what the Giants would do.
How do you know it wasn't? As been reported, Tepper flew out to Rhule to spend the day with him and his family. We don't know Rhule's personality, but that speaks volume that you wanted someone so bad you went to them.
The Giants turnaround and say not to traveling to Waco and that he has to come to their facility.
we don't know whether Rhule will be a good NFL coach or not -
but what I do know is that the Giants created the media impression - strongly - that Rhule was their #1 choice, such that the lead story on sports news this morning (WINS radio sports, NY Post) was "Giants meeting today with their #1 choice Matt Rhule."
So from a PR point of view it's pretty embarassing that Rhule wouldn't even meet with the Giants.
From a football point of view, who knows.
RE: Rhule praised Gettleman in this interview in Dec 2017.
zachgelb's profile picture
zachgelb
Matt Rhule on Giants and Dave Gettleman
Back in late December of 2017 I interviewed Matt Rhule and the #Giants and Dave Gettleman did come up. Matt praised Dave calling him first class and a football man.
1w Link - ( New Window )
It's fair to bring that up - but if there was any love lost for the Giants FO, Gettleman or otherwise, do you think a college HC who had NFL aspirations would be honest about it in a podcast?
Did anyone in the Top Ranks say that Rhule was their choice ? The Media and Posters were beating the drums. Some were saying if they signed Rhule today that was bad because the other interviews were just for show. Maybe the GIANTS are still looking for the Right Coach to lead this Team. It is their Choice, not ours. Relax. The world is not ending because they haven't signed a Coach.
In fact Im excited not because of supposed dysfunction but because it breaks the expectation narrative and now forces the Giants to dig deep.
Rhule is in for a tough couple years down there. His program will take time. That division will not be easy next year. Falcons will be better and Saints will still be good. Bucs too.
Rhule needs to shed the older defensive players and find a QB. Good luck to him but I dont expect a SB visit anytime soon from the Panthers.
RE: Rhule praised Gettleman in this interview in Dec 2017.
zachgelb's profile picture
zachgelb
Matt Rhule on Giants and Dave Gettleman
Back in late December of 2017 I interviewed Matt Rhule and the #Giants and Dave Gettleman did come up. Matt praised Dave calling him first class and a football man.
1w Link - ( New Window )
Doesn't necessarily consider what his real feelings are...only goes to show he knew enough to speak respectfully and not limit his future options.
To not get an interview is a sad state of affairs for this team. But its funny how much bad information is out there. Carolina is not in a good situation right now. They have no QB in place and if you think Cam will come back to 100% you are crazy.
Giants were Rhule's #1 landing spot and he doesnt even interview with us is just plain funny. the media makes up so much bullshit to be the one that called it 1st.
I didnt want McCarthy and didnt know anything about Rhule except that i did see him spit on himself in the bowl game. So there's that. I also didnt like the faces he makes while coaching.
The guy I want is Bienemy. We have a great RB that has been used incorrectly for 2 years, I want to see us ride that horse to the playoffs. He has worked with one of the best coaches and his offense is always creative and very good. If we cant have Belichek then Bienemy is my guy.
when you bring a total clown like Gettleman back. Rhule wouldnt even interview with them. DG is a total anchor for the franchise. You people who wanted him back got your wish, now coaches wont even interview with Giants
Yep. We've said it all along
Dude - your dream is to be a GM, but based on your anxiety-riddled posts, you'd be curled up in a fetal position shitting yourself if you ever were hired by a team hell-bent on self-destruction from the very same takes you are making and giving +1's to.
but what I do know is that the Giants created the media impression - strongly - that Rhule was their #1 choice, such that the lead story on sports news this morning (WINS radio sports, NY Post) was "Giants meeting today with their #1 choice Matt Rhule."
So from a PR point of view it's pretty embarassing that Rhule wouldn't even meet with the Giants.
From a football point of view, who knows.
Could just be smoke. Could be media conjecture.
Disappointing but can we please hear the contract details first?
if he left the building today without a contract. Well, he never made it to the building.
It has to be McDaniels or BB as HC and the Giants have to get rid of DG. I was not all in for Rhule as he is WAY unproven but, it seems obvious Rhule got what he wanted to not even listen to the Giants.
I suspect the Giants knew they would lose out which is why the changed the meeting to NJ. They had to know Carolina was offering more $$ and control than what the Giants would do.
This right here.
You don't think his agent called the Giants at some point prior to agreeing in principle with the Panthers? I doubt the Giants were blindsided, they heard the offer and either didn't counter or couldn't.
My guess anyway.
RE: we don't know whether Rhule will be a good NFL coach or not -
but what I do know is that the Giants created the media impression - strongly - that Rhule was their #1 choice, such that the lead story on sports news this morning (WINS radio sports, NY Post) was "Giants meeting today with their #1 choice Matt Rhule."
So from a PR point of view it's pretty embarassing that Rhule wouldn't even meet with the Giants.
From a football point of view, who knows.
Agreed - for all we know, maybe Rhule wasn't all that big a slam dunk for the Giants, but the optics of letting it seem that way for so long, when there was every chance they might not land him, doesn't bode well for the Giants.
It's that continued lack of attention to detail, at all levels, that derails this team.
Is the hire, stop blaming Gettleman, this is all John Mara's fault, this is Wellington all over again, the reason Rhule did not come here is John Mara not Gettleman, maybe he did not like paying the buyout, Shurmur's contract, and Rhule's salary, maybe it was coaching control, whatever it is this has happened the last two coaching searches, that is a huge red flag for this organization. We are in with the Browns now, and no better then anyone.
how Rhule will turn out in the NFL. However, unless Tepper is paying him $8-10M a year, hes taking a job with no QB rather than listening to pitch from a team with a young QB, high pick and cap space, and previous ties.
You can say all you want about Gettleman, but the fact that he didnt interview here doesnt absolve him of anything. The only thing we know is Rhule didnt think enough of us to even listen. Whats your explanation? And when we learn the actual money on the deal and it isnt even that astronomical, how will you defend this organization then?
I am not panicking, yet, will save that when they actually hire Garrett.
RE: Jesus Christ just offer Belichick 2% of the fucking team
zachgelb's profile picture
zachgelb
Matt Rhule on Giants and Dave Gettleman
Back in late December of 2017 I interviewed Matt Rhule and the #Giants and Dave Gettleman did come up. Matt praised Dave calling him first class and a football man.
1w Link - ( New Window )
Great, but it doesn't mean he wanted to work for him. It isn't about the man, it is about the structure.
RE: Jesus Christ just offer Belichick 2% of the fucking team
and enough of the "wealth of the Maras and Tisches". The Maras own half the Giants, period, with 11 first generation partners and more to feed. The Maras are not wealthy in remotely the same way that Tisch is, people who have owned or controlled Westinghouse, CBS, Lowes Corp, Lorillard Tobacco and more at various times.
Okay, life goes on. Martindale and Bienemy are both viable candidates, and for all we know could be better than Rhule. I'm not ready to panic just yet. However, if Garrett is at the press conference, PANIC!!!
I thought hiring Rhule was a potentially disastrous move
Dude - your dream is to be a GM, but based on your anxiety-riddled posts, you'd be curled up in a fetal position shitting yourself if you ever were hired by a team hell-bent on self-destruction from the very same takes you are making and giving +1's to.
Is the hire, stop blaming Gettleman, this is all John Mara's fault, this is Wellington all over again, the reason Rhule did not come here is John Mara not Gettleman, maybe he did not like paying the buyout, Shurmur's contract, and Rhule's salary, maybe it was coaching control, whatever it is this has happened the last two coaching searches, that is a huge red flag for this organization. We are in with the Browns now, and no better then anyone.
How did Rhule know he wouldn't pay the buyout, he never met with the Giants. One of two things (or both) probably happened: Rhule saw something in the Giants job he didn't like, or he couldn't imagine a better offer than the Panthers.
Either way, not even getting him in the building when he worked here before, says something about this franchise and its nothing good. Tepper spoke to him, liked what he heard, and went after him aggressively. While the Giants sat on their butts.
hired Rhule last week,?? All you hysterical know-it-alls would be screaming that they panicked and didnt bother to interview anyone else. Rhule is un-proven in the NFL, its not like they told Belichek to meet them at Olive Garden and pay for the meal. Maybe, possibly Rhule wasnt their choice anyway.
Rhule is in for a tough couple years down there. His program will take time. That division will not be easy next year. Falcons will be better and Saints will still be good. Bucs too.
Rhule needs to shed the older defensive players and find a QB. Good luck to him but I dont expect a SB visit anytime soon from the Panthers.
I disagree. The situation in Charlotte is far from dire. Some aging players, sure, but a ton of talent. Bring Cam back until you can find another QB, and they are a playoff team.
I can't believe I'm going to end up being right on Garrett. I can't fucking believe it.
And if you don't think Gettleman's presence is a problem you're fucking high.
There's a better chance of Steve Belicheck becoming the head coach of the Giants. And not even right away. After he gets fired from his first head coaching job.
What? Because he took a job before completing all scheduled interviews? What a ridiculous take. He got an offer he felt he couldn't refuse, would you turn it down?
Does Rhule have to reimburse the Giants for his plane ticket? Anyone know how that works?
You actually think the Giants paid for his ticket? Hahaha. They just told him what time to be here and Gettleman will have one of his computer guys fix the typewriter to make him a contract.
I can't believe I'm going to end up being right on Garrett. I can't fucking believe it.
And if you don't think Gettleman's presence is a problem you're fucking high.
I think you are right on both comments. DG probably was one of the factors besides the money and besides the fact the owner flew to his place and went to see him. That speaks volumes. We screwed the pooch big time, but it looks to me we probably would have lost out to his money offer as well as having DG overlooking the HC.
Man, I don't know if Rhule will be any good. But it sure seems like
the Giants are approaching a Knicks level of organizational competence. Clearly they telegraphed to the media who they coveted and then didn't even get to interview him.
He's a 68 guy who will be around another year or two. It seems more likely that the problem for prospective coaching candidates is one of the owners is the SRVP of Player Personnel and another family member who is the son of another owner works with him.
We've been hearing about people in their jobs for decades being an issue. That's not Gettleman. He's here for now, for the short term. The Mara's are here forever.
RE: Now we are fighting with the Browns for table scraps
how Rhule will turn out in the NFL. However, unless Tepper is paying him $8-10M a year, hes taking a job with no QB rather than listening to pitch from a team with a young QB, high pick and cap space, and previous ties.
You can say all you want about Gettleman, but the fact that he didnt interview here doesnt absolve him of anything. The only thing we know is Rhule didnt think enough of us to even listen. Whats your explanation? And when we learn the actual money on the deal and it isnt even that astronomical, how will you defend this organization then?
I am not panicking, yet, will save that when they actually hire Garrett.
Do we know for a fact that people around the league respect DJ as much as BBI and the people connected with the Giants? Maybe he's viewed as an issue rather than a positive? We don't know.
Results dont lie. 4-12 in year 2 of a rebuild, worst team in football the last 3 years and none of the top 3 coaching candidates gave us a sniff.
DG is certainly part of the problem and should have been cut with Shurmur. But this is an organizational problem. Front office, program - including the analytics program, org structure, etc.
We need a total and complete makeover.
This is bad. Major wakeup call this coaching search has been. DG fumbling through that presser last week cemented my thoughts on him. Hes a loser. And so is this front office and organization.
after only 2 years. If Giants went 6-10 next year Rhule would have been on the hot seat.
OTOH - LOL at the folks treating Matt Rhule like some incredible get. Guy has not accomplished anywhere near enough for the hype he gets. Good chance we land somebody better in spite of ourselves.
scares me how you live your personal lives. None of these guys is a slam dunk. All of them may flame out. Nobody knows for sure. Relax and get your panties out of a bunch. We will have a coach. Hopefully we get the one who leads this team back to respectability.
was the next Vince Lombardi. Can some poster be any more disingenuous? Everyone, even Rhule's most ardent supporters, knew there was risk in hiring him. There is with almost any coach. But the fact that we couldn't even get a former employee who was generally regarded as our top choice in for an interview is borderline disastrous.
Whether it was the fact that Tepper flew to Waco while NYG insisted on Rhule coming to them; or CAR gave him much more control; Tepper paid him a boatload of money he knew NYG wouldn't pay...this is black eye for this org, and hopefully a wake-up call. But I wouldn't count on that.
by all accounts, Rhule has been their top target from the get go. waiting to interview him was clearly part of the reason they were willing to pass on mccarthy. but they weren't willing to go to him? the minute they heard tepper was going there, they needed to get on a plane and be there too, not insist he come to NJ the next day.
Rhule said in his interview that you need to things: a quarterback and alignment.
Maybe he doesn't love Daniel Jones. He just picked a job where he's either sick with expensive and injured Can Newton or a draft pick...instead of Jones.
The GM after Gettleman will want his own coach. Hence why it doesn't make any sense to go to a team where Gettleman is on the way out in a year or two because of performance and/or health.
RE: Objectively is Kyle Allen or Will Grier a better QB prospect than
Rhule said in his interview that you need to things: a quarterback and alignment.
Maybe he doesn't love Daniel Jones. He just picked a job where he's either sick with expensive and injured Can Newton or a draft pick...instead of Jones.
Yup, just said the same a few posts above. If he doesn't secure a QB in the first year or two, he's finished. But that's better than interviewing with the Giants.
Rhule would have been an idiot to pick NYG run by trust fund babies over CAR run by a successful, self-made billionaire businessman. Mara & Co. arent who they think they are.
offered more than the Giants were willing? It's likely Mara is willing to bend the historical structure, but not break it. When you're at an auction, you have to go in with a set limit.
Maybe the Giants like one of the other candidates who is more willing to work within the structure.
Maybe Rhule was top of the board, but not so far ahead that Giants were ready to sell their soul to get him.
Maybe the Giants knew Rhule was likely going to Panthers and chose to stay in NY to finalize their search, knowing Rhule wasn't interviewing either way. I highly doubt location of a wine and dine was the deciding factor.
I know you take a lot of heat for negativity about this franchises front office. I havent been as extreme, but I think Im getting there.
This is a big blow to the organization's image. And like you, I am not a Rhule guy at all.
But it's shocking when you boil this outcome down to this - we couldn't even get an interview with the current Baylor University HC. The guy who said this was his dream job. Just think about that...
If that doesn't cause Mara to look more inward, nothing will...
They should have been on Tisch's plane a week ago once Baylor got rolled by Georgia if Rhule was TRULY their top guy.
Rhule said in his interview that you need to things: a quarterback and alignment.
Maybe he doesn't love Daniel Jones. He just picked a job where he's either sick with expensive and injured Can Newton or a draft pick...instead of Jones.
Maybe he actually doesn't like the current Alignment more...
Rhule said in his interview that you need to things: a quarterback and alignment.
Maybe he doesn't love Daniel Jones. He just picked a job where he's either sick with expensive and injured Can Newton or a draft pick...instead of Jones.
Maybe he actually doesn't like the current Alignment more...
Yup - mentioned it above, if it's not the FO structure then it's Barkley/Jones, or some ridiculous financial package the Giants couldn't meet (which is unlikely, but possible).
report just said it is going to be in the neighborhood of a 7 year $75M deal with incentives. Guy is usually off by a little bit, but that is some good coin as well as a lot of years for a 1st time head coach.
And the final reasoning may have nothing to do with football.
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Please leave NJ today. The state's average IQ will be better for it.
I would leave if I could but family ties come first. As for the states IQ, one would think with the number of people fleeing the state in recent years there would be a brain drain. Good luck paying those public pensions.
report just said it is going to be in the neighborhood of a 7 year $75M deal with incentives. Guy is usually off by a little bit, but that is some good coin as well as a lot of years for a 1st time head coach.
Wow. Thats one hell of a deal for a guy that spent only 1 year in the NFL
And the final reasoning may have nothing to do with football.
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Yeah I'm sure partisan politics were the deciding factor. Fuckwit.
I said this was going to happen NY is not very attractive for many. I said Ron didn't want to move to NY, I said Rhule would find NC more attractive. We are going to get a coach hungry but without a lot of choices. Its ok. but get it through your skulls NY is low tier destination now. Enjoy
Rhule said in his interview that you need to things: a quarterback and alignment.
Maybe he doesn't love Daniel Jones. He just picked a job where he's either sick with expensive and injured Can Newton or a draft pick...instead of Jones.
I don't think it's as dire. They will have options in the short term. I was kicking this around with FMiC yesterday. There is a good chance the Panthers will get Carr, Dalton, or Rivers. And then look for longer term solutions...
That's not about Gettleman, it is Tepper giving him a deal he couldn't pass up.
You don't know that either way.
Tepper is a hugely successful hedge fund guy, and if his interviews are any indication, he's got a pretty contemporary view of how to build an organization. Rhule is clearly a culture builder and not a system/playbook guy. Add to that Charlotte is a really great place to raise a family like his. They are on the threshold of the decision regarding the next QB, who will have an O built around he and McCaffrey. If they can put a better secondary behind Kuechly+Thompson and their soon-to-be healthy front they will get back on track defensively.
Too many boxes checked on CAR's side, it seems.
That said, Tepper hasn't shown that he knows how to own a football team, nor is Rhule a lock to put the right staff in place and run things successfully at this level. Let's see how both of them conduct themselves when things go a little south. First test is what level of class and professionalism they handle the Cam situation going forward.
report just said it is going to be in the neighborhood of a 7 year $75M deal with incentives. Guy is usually off by a little bit, but that is some good coin as well as a lot of years for a 1st time head coach.
This is why I stated earlier to wait for the contract details come out before jumping...
Cant deny that. Oh well. Im just going to be apatheic until something happens.
I was supremely confident until I saw Colin Cowherd's interview with Jay Glazer yesterday. Colin felt rather strongly the Giants were a really good job to get and Jay kinda went, "Ehhh...". He said the Browns give a head coaching candidate a list of 13 general manager prospects they could hire to work with while the Giants are totally committed to Dave Gettleman."
Then we find out Gettleman is one of the guys conducting the freakin' interviews. I should've known right then this was probably not going to be as easy as I thought.
I know you take a lot of heat for negativity about this franchises front office. I havent been as extreme, but I think Im getting there.
This is a big blow to the organization's image. And like you, I am not a Rhule guy at all.
But it's shocking when you boil this outcome down to this - we couldn't even get an interview with the current Baylor University HC. The guy who said this was his dream job. Just think about that...
If that doesn't cause Mara to look more inward, nothing will...
They should have been on Tisch's plane a week ago once Baylor got rolled by Georgia if Rhule was TRULY their top guy.
We are a bottom feeder and our Front Office doesn't see it.
Nor do the defenders here...
RE: I think that there is a lot to be said for having a clear favorite
Giants most likely had salary parameters set with his team. I agree with posters that money is a factor for the Giants. Tepper most likely identified his coach and asked "what will it take to cancel the rest of your interviews" with a firm we have a deal now or we don't.
.
There will be a lot of negative spin. I will wait till we see the product in September. Keep drafting well, hit on a couple free agents and hope Jones takes a big step forward and we will win next year.
Coaching is exceptionally important but talent is still king imo.
report just said it is going to be in the neighborhood of a 7 year $75M deal with incentives. Guy is usually off by a little bit, but that is some good coin as well as a lot of years for a 1st time head coach.
Wow. Thats one hell of a deal for a guy that spent only 1 year in the NFL
He had $80 million from Baylor sitting on the table. People had to know Rhule wasn't taking some shit contract like McAdoo or Shurmur.
1) Gettleman, but I don't think this was THE major deterrent because, after all, Rhule agreed to an interview knowing Gettleman would be here.
2) Tepper just opening his wallet and giving Rhule whatever he wanted
3) Purely speculative, but maybe Rhule was offended by the whole "You come to us" instead of "we come to you" thing. Carolina brass came to Waco. They weren't too high and mighty to fly out to the city of the Branch Davidians.
Regardless, this is utterly embarrassing for the franchise
Let's put to bed once and for all that HC of the Giants
is some highly desirable job. I don't know who they are targeting, but two candidates have taken other jobs without even talking to the Giants, and another is widely believed to not be interested.
We are very likely going to end up with the coach a division rival just fired for underachieving.
is some highly desirable job. I don't know who they are targeting, but two candidates have taken other jobs without even talking to the Giants, and another is widely believed to not be interested.
We are very likely going to end up with the coach a division rival just fired for underachieving.
We know what Garrett is about. Although, I don't despise him like many here do. I'm not big on McDaniels. I think he has a lot of Shurmur in him. Not a leader of men. Not big on Martindale either.
Rhule said in his interview that you need to things: a quarterback and alignment.
Maybe he doesn't love Daniel Jones. He just picked a job where he's either sick with expensive and injured Can Newton or a draft pick...instead of Jones.
Or are the Giants just holding their flaccid johnsons? What a fucking shit show this franchise has become. The Giants didnt even manage to interview their top candidate. Fucking pathetic job by Mara Tisch. And this nothing to do with whether or not Rhule turns out to be the next great NFL coach. The Giants couldnt even get the guy in the building. Fucking pathetic. Absolutely fucking pathetic. And remember, this is the second time the Giants have been left with only second level coaching candidates. Hey Mara Tisch, you guys are the laughing stock of the NFL.
Was high on the idea of Rhule bringing a culture and a program here. Oh well, on to the next. Im not even investing enough to get angry about this team anymore. Hope its Martindale. Would be hard not to be disappointed with Garrett.
to accept that if Tepper said, I'm giving you $10M a year, but you sign before I leave this David Koresh shithole - that Rhule is going to sign.
If we made a mistake, it was not getting our asses down to Waco before Carolina did.
This. The Giants should have randomly booked a room in the hotel that Rhule was staying at in Mexico. Tepper beat them to the punch.
And there is no way around the optics. Rhule was one of their top choices and he never interviewed. It's bad and no amount of PR spin will help. Getting Garrett's name out moments later is just insane to me.
And the final reasoning may have nothing to do with football.
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Please leave NJ today. The state's average IQ will be better for it.
I would leave if I could but family ties come first. As for the states IQ, one would think with the number of people fleeing the state in recent years there would be a brain drain. Good luck paying those public pensions.
Are people fleeing? There have been tons of stories recently about how NY is hemorrhaging people. I think that they have lost more than any other state over the past decade; to the point where we will lose a Congressional seat. But, I thought that NJ was one of the places that was collecting the NYers.
Maybe Carolina has more talent and more potential...
report just said it is going to be in the neighborhood of a 7 year $75M deal with incentives. Guy is usually off by a little bit, but that is some good coin as well as a lot of years for a 1st time head coach.
Wow. Thats one hell of a deal for a guy that spent only 1 year in the NFL
Lets see why he choose NC -He will live like a king down here with that kind of coin -his kids will go to some of the best schools and probably have jobs waiting for them at Teppers fund. He will pay less in taxes, his quality of life will be high, the weather alone is more attractive, they have a rabid fan base here filled with Tri staters now. He will have one of the smartest men in the world backing him in everything. but yeah NY, btw Tepper moved his business and his family from NY to NC too.
I don't disagree that Carolina would be a more attractive place
to live, raise a family, etc. Maybe he also fell in love with that lifestyle at Baylor (little town instead of an urban area, etc). I think you're rich anywhere at his salary, so affordability is not an issue like it would be for someone like me.
But having said all of that, a guy like him probably sacrifices quality of life for quality of job. I can believe he likes the vibe in Carolina better than in the Meadowlands. BUt I am positive that there is a lot more that goes into it than having a GM.
Rhule said in his interview that you need to things: a quarterback and alignment.
Maybe he doesn't love Daniel Jones. He just picked a job where he's either sick with expensive and injured Can Newton or a draft pick...instead of Jones.
Yup, just said the same a few posts above. If he doesn't secure a QB in the first year or two, he's finished. But that's better than interviewing with the Giants.
That's not how Tepper operates, Rhule will have plenty of time to install a system -he will be coach for years
It's a kick in the nuts for the organisation. I'd say it's a wake-up call, only I don't have much confidence that the penny will drop with the Maras.
I actually think Martindale would be a good hire, but Gettleman has to retire soon and not be replaced by Abrams.
The more I turn it over in my mind, the more it comes back to an ownership issue, from whence comes the organisation's culture.
Also, re. Rhule and the quarterback issue: he gets to have input on choosing a quarterback. There must have been discussion on that matter during his interview with the Panthers.
And the final reasoning may have nothing to do with football.
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Please leave NJ today. The state's average IQ will be better for it.
I would leave if I could but family ties come first. As for the states IQ, one would think with the number of people fleeing the state in recent years there would be a brain drain. Good luck paying those public pensions.
Are people fleeing? There have been tons of stories recently about how NY is hemorrhaging people. I think that they have lost more than any other state over the past decade; to the point where we will lose a Congressional seat. But, I thought that NJ was one of the places that was collecting the NYers.
Tri State area is hemorrhaging their tax base -its why they need immigrants legal and illegal federal money is very important to them. TX, AZ FL, NC are very attractive alternatives.
1m
Panthers are giving former Baylor HC Matt Rhule a seven-year - seven year - deal worth $60 million that with incentives could be worth up to $70 million, per league sources.
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
6m
One note on the #Giants: Matt Rhule called them before signing his 6-year deal with the #Panthers and gave them the opportunity to match and lure him to get on the plane. They declined and hired Joe Judge instead.
Listen, if you are from the tri-state area, nothing beats the culture
here unless you are making minimum wage and cant afford to live here.
Charlotte aint NYC.
Hes already and will be making millions no matter where he goes, cost of living doesnt factor into this. This is a football decision strictly.
Of course, 10M, if true, likely exceeds what the Giants could offer, but not even giving us a listen is a bad look. If Teppers offer is take it or leave it, whats so bad about returning to his cush Baylor job. The bottom line, we werent attractive to him.
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
2m
Panthers are giving former Baylor HC Matt Rhule a seven-year - seven year - deal worth $60 million that with incentives could be worth up to $70 million, per league sources.
Rhule called the Giants and offered the chance to match and the Giants declined.
Sorry, but I don't blame the Giants for declining. No interview, and they get a "can you match this?" call from a guy who has never even been an NFL coordinator? Who the fuck does he think he is, an in his prime Bill Parcells?
1m
Panthers are giving former Baylor HC Matt Rhule a seven-year - seven year - deal worth $60 million that with incentives could be worth up to $70 million, per league sources.
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
6m
One note on the #Giants: Matt Rhule called them before signing his 6-year deal with the #Panthers and gave them the opportunity to match and lure him to get on the plane. They declined and hired Joe Judge instead.
WHOA, Hired Joe Judge?? or are interviewing Joe Judge?
Let's sit on our hands and evaluate Shemur for Philly game
And the final reasoning may have nothing to do with football.
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Please leave NJ today. The state's average IQ will be better for it.
I would leave if I could but family ties come first. As for the states IQ, one would think with the number of people fleeing the state in recent years there would be a brain drain. Good luck paying those public pensions.
Are people fleeing? There have been tons of stories recently about how NY is hemorrhaging people. I think that they have lost more than any other state over the past decade; to the point where we will lose a Congressional seat. But, I thought that NJ was one of the places that was collecting the NYers.
Nope, They're jumping on the turnpike and heading south right into Delaware and beyond.
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
2m
Panthers are giving former Baylor HC Matt Rhule a seven-year - seven year - deal worth $60 million that with incentives could be worth up to $70 million, per league sources.
Ugh 7 years, F that.
RE: Listen, if you are from the tri-state area, nothing beats the culture
here unless you are making minimum wage and cant afford to live here.
Charlotte aint NYC.
Hes already and will be making millions no matter where he goes, cost of living doesnt factor into this. This is a football decision strictly.
Of course, 10M, if true, likely exceeds what the Giants could offer, but not even giving us a listen is a bad look. If Teppers offer is take it or leave it, whats so bad about returning to his cush Baylor job. The bottom line, we werent attractive to him.
from the people who (from the comments) think Rhule was THE coach for this team. A guy who is an unproven NFL head coach.
Not to say that he will not be an excellent coach, but if you read the comments it is as if we missed out on a cant miss opportunity.
Yep. Frankly there are some aspects of his personality that are not particularly attractive. You are getting on the plane in Carolina and already shopping your offer. Not a good look. He's a relentless self-promoter who has now abandoned to colleges and the recruits he brought in. Me first guy, and I wonder how it will play with grown men.
How probably 80% if not more of this board was all over Rhule. This guy is great. No chance he goes elsewhere. He is a genius. Then he gets a bigtime offer elsewhere and plays 2 parties off one another to get the best deal and now he is a moneyhog. He sucks.
The guy has accomplished. NOTHING.
Carolina gave him 7 years and a ton of money and bought out Baylor making him one of the top paid coaches in the NFL for what? The question is did you think he was leaving his 8 year 6-8M a year deal for a short term lower money NFL deal?
Thank God they didn't match because he won't see the end of that contract.
Hiring any head coach is going to be an uncertain process. That would be true of Rhule, that is true of Judge. It does not make sense to commit big dollars to a coach who is anything but a sure thing. I am not in love with Judge, but he gets a chance. If he fails, they have to move on. We should know after two years whether the direction is good or bad. And, if it is good after two years, in all likelihood, it will be longer before we know whether he is the long term answer.
How probably 80% if not more of this board was all over Rhule. This guy is great. No chance he goes elsewhere. He is a genius. Then he gets a bigtime offer elsewhere and plays 2 parties off one another to get the best deal and now he is a moneyhog. He sucks.
The guy has accomplished. NOTHING.
Carolina gave him 7 years and a ton of money and bought out Baylor making him one of the top paid coaches in the NFL for what? The question is did you think he was leaving his 8 year 6-8M a year deal for a short term lower money NFL deal?
Thank God they didn't match because he won't see the end of that contract.
If Matt Rhule has accomplished nothing, then what has the guy the Giants ultimately hired accomplished? Sub-nothing?
Hiring any head coach is going to be an uncertain process. That would be true of Rhule, that is true of Judge. It does not make sense to commit big dollars to a coach who is anything but a sure thing. I am not in love with Judge, but he gets a chance. If he fails, they have to move on. We should know after two years whether the direction is good or bad. And, if it is good after two years, in all likelihood, it will be longer before we know whether he is the long term answer.
Part of the reason a coach with options drives a hard bargain is so that he doesn't uproot his entire life so he can be bounced after 2 seasons. The commitment on both sides becomes substantial.
If the Giants are looking for another head coach in two years, then everyone needs to go, including the people who own the team.
Hiring any head coach is going to be an uncertain process. That would be true of Rhule, that is true of Judge. It does not make sense to commit big dollars to a coach who is anything but a sure thing. I am not in love with Judge, but he gets a chance. If he fails, they have to move on. We should know after two years whether the direction is good or bad. And, if it is good after two years, in all likelihood, it will be longer before we know whether he is the long term answer.
Part of the reason a coach with options drives a hard bargain is so that he doesn't uproot his entire life so he can be bounced after 2 seasons. The commitment on both sides becomes substantial.
If the Giants are looking for another head coach in two yeveryone needs to go, including the people who own the team.
really, how? They own the team.
I really didn't know enough about Rhule to have a strong opinion
either way. I also did not have a strong opinion of Gettleman positively or negatively right now. But, the rhetoric of "blame Gettleman", "nobody wants to work with Gettleman", "anti-Gettleman", etc. is wearing thin. Nobody here is privy to any of the reasons Rhule or anyone else chose another job over here.
It is not outside the realm of possibility that the Panthers just blew him away. Or, he really took to them flying to Texas to meet him. Or, he just thinks this organization is a real shit show. Or, any other number of possible reasons. So, let's not pretend every move that doesn't work out is because Gettleman is in charge, just like many of the other myths that get exaggerated and overused here.
Hiring any head coach is going to be an uncertain process. That would be true of Rhule, that is true of Judge. It does not make sense to commit big dollars to a coach who is anything but a sure thing. I am not in love with Judge, but he gets a chance. If he fails, they have to move on. We should know after two years whether the direction is good or bad. And, if it is good after two years, in all likelihood, it will be longer before we know whether he is the long term answer.
fail fast works when you are in competition, not out of the gamee.
and he calls in to set up a negotiation battle between Giants and Panthers. Easy pass there when you're looking for record money and have only been a college coach.
Judge seems to have killed his interview and there's so little known about him, so I don't quite know how anyone can say anything definitive about him. Hope he puts together a quality staff.
so this will have to suffice...I am so sick of all the fan speculations, media speculations, rumors, etc. based on absolutely no facts. Especially on a site like BBI, they start to get regurgitated as fact and/or accepted as fact by people that come in late to the conversation. If you don't know shit, don't say shit. At the very least, make it clear it is your opinion, gut feeling, etc. based on absolutely no information.
RE: I don't feel like posting this on several threads
so this will have to suffice...I am so sick of all the fan speculations, media speculations, rumors, etc. based on absolutely no facts. Especially on a site like BBI, they start to get regurgitated as fact and/or accepted as fact by people that come in late to the conversation. If you don't know shit, don't say shit. At the very least, make it clear it is your opinion, gut feeling, etc. based on absolutely no information.
Excellent post
RE: I don't feel like posting this on several threads
so this will have to suffice...I am so sick of all the fan speculations, media speculations, rumors, etc. based on absolutely no facts. Especially on a site like BBI, they start to get regurgitated as fact and/or accepted as fact by people that come in late to the conversation. If you don't know shit, don't say shit. At the very least, make it clear it is your opinion, gut feeling, etc. based on absolutely no information.
Glad you kept this agnostic. When I said Rhule didn't even interview here so why are people killing Gettleman, you'd swear I'm the guy's PR manager!
RE: RE: I don't feel like posting this on several threads
so this will have to suffice...I am so sick of all the fan speculations, media speculations, rumors, etc. based on absolutely no facts. Especially on a site like BBI, they start to get regurgitated as fact and/or accepted as fact by people that come in late to the conversation. If you don't know shit, don't say shit. At the very least, make it clear it is your opinion, gut feeling, etc. based on absolutely no information.
Glad you kept this agnostic. When I said Rhule didn't even interview here so why are people killing Gettleman, you'd swear I'm the guy's PR manager!
That was one of the streams that got me annoyed. Everyone, media included, is just making stuff up about interviews, schedules, offers, etc. There's more rumor spread as fact here than a Star Wars fan site.
RE: RE: RE: I don't feel like posting this on several threads
so this will have to suffice...I am so sick of all the fan speculations, media speculations, rumors, etc. based on absolutely no facts. Especially on a site like BBI, they start to get regurgitated as fact and/or accepted as fact by people that come in late to the conversation. If you don't know shit, don't say shit. At the very least, make it clear it is your opinion, gut feeling, etc. based on absolutely no information.
Glad you kept this agnostic. When I said Rhule didn't even interview here so why are people killing Gettleman, you'd swear I'm the guy's PR manager!
That was one of the streams that got me annoyed. Everyone, media included, is just making stuff up about interviews, schedules, offers, etc. There's more rumor spread as fact here than a Star Wars fan site.
And, I don't love Gettleman, but I don't hate him. But, the nonsense people will make up and accept as fact in their own minds to discuss this guy in particular is ridiculous.
RE: RE: I don't feel like posting this on several threads
First maintaining gross incompetence by the FO based on assumptions that turned out to be complete shit - yet he keeps plugging along.
Now, we hired a guy with no experience bound to fail because the decision making of the org sucks!
I actually find the hire interesting. Said as much on a few other threads. Concerned by (1) his ability to hire his own staff, (2) his network/rolodex, and (3) managing this media.
with Gettleman but he's 68 and with the Giants for the short term. I really think the people clued into the league are smarter than that but in fairness to the agents putting most of this out in public the last two Giants coaches only lasted two years. So two years of Dave might be their whole run.
If I'm going to work for the Giants ownership actually running player personnel is a bigger red flag me for me than the guy the owners hired as GM. As a new coach you can gain influence over him if you need to. You're not gaining influence over one of the owners.
It's all good, he was able to come up with a new narrative in quick fashion. They only hired Judge because he is the guy to allow DG to make all of the coaching staff hires.
This is stated as fact by our resident Redskins fan and will be regurgitated through many threads for the foreseeable future.
It's all good over at bwCentral, he now has the endless material to work with.
RE: Maybe some of the candidates didn't want to work
with Gettleman but he's 68 and with the Giants for the short term. I really think the people clued into the league are smarter than that but in fairness to the agents putting most of this out in public the last two Giants coaches only lasted two years. So two years of Dave might be their whole run.
If I'm going to work for the Giants ownership actually running player personnel is a bigger red flag me for me than the guy the owners hired as GM. As a new coach you can gain influence over him if you need to. You're not gaining influence over one of the owners.
Yeah, maybe Rhule asked the Giants to match just to see if they would. Then he'd say "I'm not going to work with Gettleman!! Ha!"
RE: RE: Maybe some of the candidates didn't want to work
with Gettleman but he's 68 and with the Giants for the short term. I really think the people clued into the league are smarter than that but in fairness to the agents putting most of this out in public the last two Giants coaches only lasted two years. So two years of Dave might be their whole run.
If I'm going to work for the Giants ownership actually running player personnel is a bigger red flag me for me than the guy the owners hired as GM. As a new coach you can gain influence over him if you need to. You're not gaining influence over one of the owners.
Yeah, maybe Rhule asked the Giants to match just to see if they would. Then he'd say "I'm not going to work with Gettleman!! Ha!"
"Fail forward" is the new buzz for the next couple of months.
BTW, I think this was a worse decision for Rhule going forward.
I think the Giants have a young QB, a top 5 pick that could be used on a good prospect or flipped for more assets, and a young roster that could be molded into whatever Rhule's vision was.
In Carolina, there's no QB except for an aging Cam Newton and there's a locker room full of veterans who completely and totally quit when Ron Rivera was fired.
The short term success might be with Carolina, but the sustainability favors the Giants IMO.
It's all good, he was able to come up with a new narrative in quick fashion. They only hired Judge because he is the guy to allow DG to make all of the coaching staff hires.
I didn't say that. I did say, however, this hiring does re-affirm Gettleman's GM power.
Can you honestly suggest that Judge will have real input in the player selection process? Input that Mara said last week he was open to with the "right guy"?
While a fair guess that a 68 year old GM may not be here long term, it is not fair (nor legal) to make decisions based on that assumption. If he feels good and the Giants have no objections over his body of work, he could be here a long while. I can say he will be here another 5-7 years and it holds no more water than saying he's here for another year or two...based solely on age.
Can you honestly suggest that Judge will have real input in the player selection process? Input that Mara said last week he was open to with the "right guy"?
See I can play this game too, can you honestly say he won't have any input? As mentioned in the other threads where you continue to parrot this theory, we don't know one way or the other. Why not let the process work itself out? If Judge has no power or input on staff and players, I will gladly eat crow. If this turns out to be false, you will just find something else to latch on to.
It's all good, he was able to come up with a new narrative in quick fashion. They only hired Judge because he is the guy to allow DG to make all of the coaching staff hires.
I didn't say that. I did say, however, this hiring does re-affirm Gettleman's GM power.
Can you honestly suggest that Judge will have real input in the player selection process? Input that Mara said last week he was open to with the "right guy"?
I have similar concerns. But, I can't say those concerns will or won't be realized or what this really says about Mara, Gettleman, etc. None of us are privy to how things will proceed. Perhaps Judge will be given a list of prospective coordinators to choose from. Perhaps he was asked for a list for Gettleman to contact. Perhaps a combination. Perhaps something else. Perhaps he will have a strong say in the draft decisions. Perhaps not. NONE OF US KNOW, especially not at this time.
The most valid concerns I saw from you are his rolodex, so to speak, and will he be allowed to hire his staff. The two may go hand in hand or the former may impact the latter. Let's see.
The bottom line is, I was so disgusted with the last 2coaching staffs, to a man, that I welcome a very new direction taken by the organization. I will only hope they are open enough to allowing him to act like a HC and make decisions. Otherwise, it doesn't matter who they hired.
See I can play this game too, can you honestly say he won't have any input? As mentioned in the other threads where you continue to parrot this theory, we don't know one way or the other. Why not let the process work itself out? If Judge has no power or input on staff and players, I will gladly eat crow. If this turns out to be false, you will just find something else to latch on to.
Fair enough.
But let's apply the common sense factor - with absolutely no HC, coordinator experience, or personnel experience, do you expect Judge to have input?
This is an utter disaster.
Garrett
WTF
Garrett
Well that is uninspiring.
@RapSheet
The #Panthers are hiring #Baylor coach Matt Rhule, source says (as @PeteThamel
reported). They are working out the deal as we speak. They did not want him to get on the plane to the #Giants.
Everyone is now. It's done.
I would not discount it as a factor.
For the #1 draft pick.
That's not about Gettleman, it is Tepper giving him a deal he couldn't pass up.
That's not about Gettleman, it is Tepper giving him a deal he couldn't pass up.
+1
That's not about Gettleman, it is Tepper giving him a deal he couldn't pass up.
You don't know that either way.
It's all about the $$$$$. Show me the money!
:-)
That's not about Gettleman, it is Tepper giving him a deal he couldn't pass up.
You dont know that for a fact. Two things can be true at the same time.
It hasn't been. Coaches are picking the Panthers and Lions over the NY Football Giants. It's actually quite sickening
@RapSheet
46s
The #Panthers had a top two of Josh McDaniels and Matt Rhule. Owner David Tepper spent yesterday in Waco with Rhule and his family, and he heard enough. Rather than risk Rhule getting on the plane, he made a deal. Rhule is now Carolinas coach.
Martindale just wants to focus on coaching. He's one who would take the job.
That and $$$$$$
Stop blaming people if you don't know what the fuck happened.
They didnt get an interview with their #1 pick. They are the laughingstock of the NFL.
Gettleman needs to be fired TODAY.
Really pathetic.
Go on twitter, complain tagging the Giants page, write letters, do whatever you can. If the fans don't force change our inept front office won't do it on their own.
They didnt get an interview with their #1 pick. They are the laughingstock of the NFL.
Gettleman needs to be fired TODAY.
Agreed, and they lost their #2 pick to their division rival. Team is toast
Stop blaming people if you don't know what the fuck happened.
But you dont know what the fuck happened either. What if he had trepidations about working with Gettleman and Tepper won him over?
It could come out he didnt want to work with Gettleman and youd still deny it.
@AdamSchefter
1m
Former Baylor HC Matt Rhule is taking the Carolina Panthers HC job, as @PeteThamel
reported. Rhule was supposed to interview today with the Giants; he didnt make it there.
A little late for that.
Stop blaming people if you don't know what the fuck happened.
What does it say about this org that they can't even get their top candidate in for an interview. Shambolic.
Welcome home Jason Garrett.
That's not about Gettleman, it is Tepper giving him a deal he couldn't pass up.
No. its about the fact that they were outsmarted by a smarter owner who showed him a better plan for success, analytics, systems, controls. Meanwhile the Giants have Gettleman and "4 computer guys".
With Joe Brady as his offensive coordinator.
Link - ( New Window )
If the Giants have lost out on three candidates that they liked then they best question their process.
McCarthy, Rhule, and Rivera.
The constant here is a motivated ownership that made the deals happen.
@AroundTheNFL
3m
𝘽𝙍𝙀𝘼𝙆𝙄𝙉𝙂: Panthers to hire Baylor's Matt Rhule as head coach
Stop blaming people if you don't know what the fuck happened.
So if they gave him full control in Carolina that doesnt factor in? Yeah sure.
We have a better situation as far as QB goes. Thats kind of important.
*down not own
Giants are a stubborn organization. I was hoping this would be the first move towards modernizing the approach a bit, new blood. Nope. Same old crap.
This is an utter disaster.
I fucking called that shit the day Shurmur was fired.
Fuck this team.
We know McDaniel's doesn't want to come here. We'd be lucky to even get Garrett at this point. Sad.
This certainly sucks, no way around it...
The flip side is absent proof, you automatically jump to it being Gettleman's fault without knowing what Carolina promised him and anything else. He's hired by Carolina and poof - Gettleman's fault.
It's so tiresome at this point.
Stop blaming people if you don't know what the fuck happened.
Stop defending people when you don't know what the fuck happened and you have been wrong about literally everything for 3 straight years.
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for a fact he didn't interview here.
Stop blaming people if you don't know what the fuck happened.
But you dont know what the fuck happened either. What if he had trepidations about working with Gettleman and Tepper won him over?
It could come out he didnt want to work with Gettleman and youd still deny it.
Using your bias as a foundation to make a pure hypothetical and then asking someone else to disprove it? Forensic ingeniousness.
+1
Exactly, but the DG dead-enders refuse to acknowledge that. Remember when the reports came out that Rhule would have no problem working with DG, and the DG apologists bent themselves backwards with glee?
The league is changing, and to use Parcells' parlance, if the HC's are cooking the meal, they want to buy the groceries. The Mara's better wake up to this soon.
Yes it is. I think some people in this thread are in denial.
Im going to be sick.
Giants (yet again) get Plaaaaaayed.
Yep...They may still land a good coach but they clearly wanted Rhule and couldn't even get an interview.
Picking 4th picking 1st what's the fucking difference. We'll pick top 4 for the next 11 years. You'll see it won't make a fucking difference.
Jones should demand a trade.
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Not even getting your top candidate in for an interview when it was supposedly his dream job is a massive red flag.
Yes it is. I think some people in this thread are in denial.
This is the Giants now in a nutshell!!!
You are 100% Right. Even the goddamn Jets were able to interview Rhule last year. The Giants are the Knicks
Looks like this blind squirrel found a nut. A whole fucking bag of them on BBI....
The it either wasn't really his dream job or someone had to make the offer so enticing that you give up your dream. There's really no realistic or honest way to look at it other than Carolina put a horse head in his bed.
I agree, but I'm OK with that. I think McDaniel is a rich man's Pat Shurmur - good OC, but not inspirational, and with a thin skin. I think he would be eaten alive in NY.
He is a factor. I'm still quite surprised with Rhule.
Now, they will hire Jason Garrett, which was what everybody knew would happen 3 months ago. Mara/Gettleman/Abrams can continue to run this organization to the ground.
Gettleman needs to be fired immediately, so we can get a real coach in here.
A nightmare is a dream too.
fuel to the fire for all the people here convinced this is a clown show operation. Have at it.
What it indicates is the Giants have a horrible rep!
OK Eric please disable this clowns handle!
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even interview here if the reports are true.
That's not about Gettleman, it is Tepper giving him a deal he couldn't pass up.
No. its about the fact that they were outsmarted by a smarter owner who showed him a better plan for success, analytics, systems, controls. Meanwhile the Giants have Gettleman and "4 computer guys".
This is Probably pretty close to what made him go with the panthers
you always bring the stupid and out of touch takes. Bravo.
This is an utter disaster.
Quote:
Stop defending people when you don't know what the fuck happened and you have been wrong about literally everything for 3 straight years.
Looks like this blind squirrel found a nut. A whole fucking bag of them on BBI....
Can you let me know how it feels to be wrong about everything all the time?
Yep it screams Im desperate for a job and not confident in my skillset.
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?
Garrett
Unless BB swoops in...this search is really bad news for the Giants.
Now a days, the coach and GM have to be hired and built together. Mara royally screwed this one up by keeping Gettleman.
Not super thrilled by his DC ....nor super excited by OC.
Just, let me know....who the Giants get...
Yep. There is a sense of entitlement in the Giant front office, like we're the Giants, you come to us. May have been true 20 years ago, but not any longer.
Fatman, I can't wait to see how you spin the Garrett hiring! Since you were all over BBI yesterday poking fun at him.
"Garrett is always the guy I wanted" FMiC
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Why take the first job offered? HE knows he will have a few offers, it doesn't seem like the smart move to me. At least hear everyone out.
Yep it screams Im desperate for a job and not confident in my skillset.
Also screams, they are going to pay me a lot of money and if I fail, I don't have to worry about getting another job for 3 years
@DDuggan21
5m
No one knows how Matt Rhule will be as an NFL head coach, but its troubling that he chose Carolina without even listening to the Giants...
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
4m
#Giants couldnt even get him in the building
Thank God the Mets finally got sold.
All that being said - who knows how these guys shake out as head coaches - we can always luck out - blind squirrel gets the nut like someone was saying on here yesterday.
@NYPost_Schwartz
13m
This is not good for the Giants.
Bottom line is doing what is best for your family. If Tepper made a great offer, you have to take it.
Expand the search, bring in Campbell or hire Richard.
Rhule knew there was going to potentially be multiple offers, why take the first job? What does it say about him?
Going to fully admit I wanted him here, but still questioning the decision process here. Why wouldn't you want to hear the Giants pitch?
Oh its a factor.
The fact they waited u til Tuesday to interview their supposed top choice.
Gettledouche is still winning.
Agree totally
Book marking this thread, because the spin will be in full force with FMiC once Garrett is on board.
Combine that with the two coaches that everyone connected said were the top of the Giants list (Rhule and McCarthy) quickly spurning the Giants, it looks like the Giants with Gettleman aren't a desirable destination.
I still can't believe they retained this guy given how awful his hand picked OL performed the past two years. Just doesn't make sense.
Oh well, since the top candidates are gone the Giants have to be disciplined here and resist the urge to do something quick and panic. The time to move fast for the top candidates is over. Might as well continue interviewing whomever they want and see who can interview the best and make a decision.
I really really wanted Rhule but he's gone. There has to be an available candidate that will be a good NFL coach. Up to the Giants to find that person.
@NYPost_Schwartz
13m
This is not good for the Giants.
Great analysis
In what way? Can you elaborate?
This right here is the entire story. If Glazer and the other reports were right that he was the Giants top choice, you don't wait around, you get on the plane.
Now, you have the hottest up and coming coach in football going to Charlotte where they have a QB situation that is in flux, and less to work with in young talent than here, which was the supposed preferred destination.
Something is rotten at the top. The best the Giants can hope for now is to have a happy accident with the head coach hire, which won't happen if they hire Garrett, which now seems almost inevitable.
This might be a big part of it. It showed they cared.
2. McDaniels (fire Gettleman, bring on Casserio)
3. Pretend to do 2. with the intention of putting pressure on Kraft to move on from Little Bill. Say your prayers. Get Little Bill.
4. Sell the fucking franchise!
But this idea that the Giants are some great, sought-after job is, and always was, a total fantasy.
Absolutely. The fact that the Giants weren't even given the opportunity to meet with Rhule is very troubling. I am resolved to the fact that Garrett is going to be next head coach.
That's the Panthers?
these guys talk out of their ass constantly, they're all salesmen trying to maximize their earnings like anyone else.
This can no longer be denied.
This was supposedly this guy's dream job. He's a local guy. Most of the people who defend the FO insisted that this was an attractive destination because of the personnel (Jones + Barkley).
He didn't even come in for an interview. Can we consider the possibility that maybe the FO structure and/or personnel are a negative factor here?
They met him in Waco as soon as he got back from vacation. Giants wanted him to come to them for meeting. This allowed Tepper to get in first.
Link - ( New Window )
To be a HC, you need to be a strong leader. Parcels and Coughlin were the coaches who brought us titles.
Quote:
Stop defending people when you don't know what the fuck happened and you have been wrong about literally everything for 3 straight years.
Looks like this blind squirrel found a nut. A whole fucking bag of them on BBI....
Quote:
From @gmfb: The #Panthers swooped in and hired #Baylor coach Matt Rhule in a stealth move. One big draw was #Panthers owner David Tepper being willing to put money into the sports science program that Rhule wants. Resources wont be a problem.
but we just hired 4 computer guys! They have wireless keyboards and everything!
Quote:
Garrett. It will be a terrible move that will indicate that those who bashed the FO have been right all along.
Book marking this thread, because the spin will be in full force with FMiC once Garrett is on board.
Go right ahead. It will be like the Reeves hire. I'll be dead set against it until he can prove that he'll win. Reeves never did and turned us into the NJ Broncos.
I'm not an organization apologist - I'm more of a bashing of people with knee-jerk and idiotic takes. You make it sound l;ike I've never criticized a coach or FO person before.
Or, maybe we did and they didn't want to exceed Carolina's offer.
At least in Carolina he gets to choose his QB. In NY that decision is set in stone for a year or two.
Quote:
To spend the day with him and his family. That obviously mean a lot to him. And the Giants turnaround and say, no, you come to us we don't go to you.
This might be a big part of it. It showed they cared.
I actually would bet that that was huge to him.
They met him in Waco as soon as he got back from vacation. Giants wanted him to come to them for meeting. This allowed Tepper to get in first. Link - ( New Window )
What a cluster. This organization is completely lost.
Seriously? That dude is close to a nursing home than East Rutherford.
That's the Panthers?
these guys talk out of their ass constantly, they're all salesmen trying to maximize their earnings like anyone else.
Quote:
...I think A) you need to have a quarterback, and B) you need to have alignment...
Perhaps there is someone in this draft that he will want and Carolina has said they would make sure they get. I doubt he had B with the Giants or he would have at least gone on an interview with them.
Agreed. I'll take Martindale over McDaniels.
Totally agree.
Clownshow organization.
Quote:
Garrett. It will be a terrible move that will indicate that those who bashed the FO have been right all along.
Book marking this thread, because the spin will be in full force with FMiC once Garrett is on board.
Lax - it probably won't be a full frontal defense of the hire on the merits (at least not at first). It will start as "the media backlash is just way over the top." But the homers will all eventually get there. It is their destiny.
Ditto. I didn't think there was NO WAY, but I thought it was doubtful he would blow off interview with NYG. Fuck indeed.
Mara likely said no thanks to that
Quote:
Quote:
From @gmfb: The #Panthers swooped in and hired #Baylor coach Matt Rhule in a stealth move. One big draw was #Panthers owner David Tepper being willing to put money into the sports science program that Rhule wants. Resources wont be a problem.
but we just hired 4 computer guys! They have wireless keyboards and everything!
Just watched the video. Its interesting that Tepper is willing to put the money into sports science and yet you don't interview with the other team to see if they are willing to do the same? Video also said that Rhule was so impressive they decided to hire him and cancel the McDaniels interview. This has me a little concerned about McDaniels and his perception around the league
zachgelb
Matt Rhule on Giants and Dave Gettleman
Back in late December of 2017 I interviewed Matt Rhule and the #Giants and Dave Gettleman did come up. Matt praised Dave calling him first class and a football man.
1w
Link - ( New Window )
They met him in Waco as soon as he got back from vacation. Giants wanted him to come to them for meeting. This allowed Tepper to get in first. Link - ( New Window )
Typical behavior from this backwards thinking organization.
They tried that trial ballon. And they saw the reaction
Quote:
get for keeping Gettleman. Shmucks.
you always bring the stupid and out of touch takes. Bravo.
Nah you're just too naive to face reality.
Yep. We've said it all along
If you look at the other three hires in Carolina, Dallas and Washington, their intentions on who they are looking at were never completed clear.
For the Giants, about 99% of the focus was on one man. How is that possible?
The team couldn't keep its intentions close to the vest? It is always a risky situation when everyone else has an inkling of who you are targeting and in the case of Carolina, once the interview was supposed to the "moved" to Jersey, that was all the opening they needed to swoop right in and do the business.
It has to be McDaniels or BB as HC and the Giants have to get rid of DG. I was not all in for Rhule as he is WAY unproven but, it seems obvious Rhule got what he wanted to not even listen to the Giants.
I suspect the Giants knew they would lose out which is why the changed the meeting to NJ. They had to know Carolina was offering more $$ and control than what the Giants would do.
This. Any coach watching these interviews if awake payed attention to his fred flinstone optics.
How do you know it wasn't? As been reported, Tepper flew out to Rhule to spend the day with him and his family. We don't know Rhule's personality, but that speaks volume that you wanted someone so bad you went to them.
The Giants turnaround and say not to traveling to Waco and that he has to come to their facility.
So from a PR point of view it's pretty embarassing that Rhule wouldn't even meet with the Giants.
From a football point of view, who knows.
zachgelb
Matt Rhule on Giants and Dave Gettleman
Back in late December of 2017 I interviewed Matt Rhule and the #Giants and Dave Gettleman did come up. Matt praised Dave calling him first class and a football man.
1w Link - ( New Window )
It's fair to bring that up - but if there was any love lost for the Giants FO, Gettleman or otherwise, do you think a college HC who had NFL aspirations would be honest about it in a podcast?
Rhule is in for a tough couple years down there. His program will take time. That division will not be easy next year. Falcons will be better and Saints will still be good. Bucs too.
Rhule needs to shed the older defensive players and find a QB. Good luck to him but I dont expect a SB visit anytime soon from the Panthers.
zachgelb
Matt Rhule on Giants and Dave Gettleman
Back in late December of 2017 I interviewed Matt Rhule and the #Giants and Dave Gettleman did come up. Matt praised Dave calling him first class and a football man.
1w Link - ( New Window )
Doesn't necessarily consider what his real feelings are...only goes to show he knew enough to speak respectfully and not limit his future options.
Giants were Rhule's #1 landing spot and he doesnt even interview with us is just plain funny. the media makes up so much bullshit to be the one that called it 1st.
I didnt want McCarthy and didnt know anything about Rhule except that i did see him spit on himself in the bowl game. So there's that. I also didnt like the faces he makes while coaching.
The guy I want is Bienemy. We have a great RB that has been used incorrectly for 2 years, I want to see us ride that horse to the playoffs. He has worked with one of the best coaches and his offense is always creative and very good. If we cant have Belichek then Bienemy is my guy.
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when you bring a total clown like Gettleman back. Rhule wouldnt even interview with them. DG is a total anchor for the franchise. You people who wanted him back got your wish, now coaches wont even interview with Giants
Yep. We've said it all along
Dude - your dream is to be a GM, but based on your anxiety-riddled posts, you'd be curled up in a fetal position shitting yourself if you ever were hired by a team hell-bent on self-destruction from the very same takes you are making and giving +1's to.
So from a PR point of view it's pretty embarassing that Rhule wouldn't even meet with the Giants.
From a football point of view, who knows.
Could just be smoke. Could be media conjecture.
It has to be McDaniels or BB as HC and the Giants have to get rid of DG. I was not all in for Rhule as he is WAY unproven but, it seems obvious Rhule got what he wanted to not even listen to the Giants.
I suspect the Giants knew they would lose out which is why the changed the meeting to NJ. They had to know Carolina was offering more $$ and control than what the Giants would do.
This right here.
You don't think his agent called the Giants at some point prior to agreeing in principle with the Panthers? I doubt the Giants were blindsided, they heard the offer and either didn't counter or couldn't.
My guess anyway.
So from a PR point of view it's pretty embarassing that Rhule wouldn't even meet with the Giants.
From a football point of view, who knows.
Agreed - for all we know, maybe Rhule wasn't all that big a slam dunk for the Giants, but the optics of letting it seem that way for so long, when there was every chance they might not land him, doesn't bode well for the Giants.
It's that continued lack of attention to detail, at all levels, that derails this team.
And if you don't think Gettleman's presence is a problem you're fucking high.
It isn't about thinking he's Vince Lombardi. It's about the fact they couldn't even get a former employee back in the door for an interview.
(Head in hands).
You can say all you want about Gettleman, but the fact that he didnt interview here doesnt absolve him of anything. The only thing we know is Rhule didnt think enough of us to even listen. Whats your explanation? And when we learn the actual money on the deal and it isnt even that astronomical, how will you defend this organization then?
I am not panicking, yet, will save that when they actually hire Garrett.
And if you don't think Gettleman's presence is a problem you're fucking high.
THIS IS ALL PART OF THE PLAN! Trust the Giants, they have a computer guy now. Four of em actually! Cant be stopped!
I do, too.
But its an indictment on Jints Central that a first year owner just schooled them in the art of negotiation.
zachgelb
Matt Rhule on Giants and Dave Gettleman
Back in late December of 2017 I interviewed Matt Rhule and the #Giants and Dave Gettleman did come up. Matt praised Dave calling him first class and a football man.
1w Link - ( New Window )
Great, but it doesn't mean he wanted to work for him. It isn't about the man, it is about the structure.
And if you don't think Gettleman's presence is a problem you're fucking high.
+ 1
They should even let Bill bring in his own secretary...
Okay, life goes on. Martindale and Bienemy are both viable candidates, and for all we know could be better than Rhule. I'm not ready to panic just yet. However, if Garrett is at the press conference, PANIC!!!
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success at college program development does not mean he'll succeed in NFL. He was an unproven commodity, yet the thread is full of whoa is us.
It isn't about thinking he's Vince Lombardi. It's about the fact they couldn't even get a former employee back in the door for an interview.
Exactly.
Dude - your dream is to be a GM, but based on your anxiety-riddled posts, you'd be curled up in a fetal position shitting yourself if you ever were hired by a team hell-bent on self-destruction from the very same takes you are making and giving +1's to.
How did Rhule know he wouldn't pay the buyout, he never met with the Giants. One of two things (or both) probably happened: Rhule saw something in the Giants job he didn't like, or he couldn't imagine a better offer than the Panthers.
Either way, not even getting him in the building when he worked here before, says something about this franchise and its nothing good. Tepper spoke to him, liked what he heard, and went after him aggressively. While the Giants sat on their butts.
Who cares what the contract is?
This is about a lot more than Rhule. John Mara cannot function in todays NFl which makes things pretty hopeless.
What a nightmare.
Quote:
I think we dodged a bullet here.
I do, too.
But its an indictment on Jints Central that a first year owner just schooled them in the art of negotiation.
First year owner, but one of the most successful business men of our time. Meanwhile we're being run by trust fund babies
Rhule is in for a tough couple years down there. His program will take time. That division will not be easy next year. Falcons will be better and Saints will still be good. Bucs too.
Rhule needs to shed the older defensive players and find a QB. Good luck to him but I dont expect a SB visit anytime soon from the Panthers.
I disagree. The situation in Charlotte is far from dire. Some aging players, sure, but a ton of talent. Bring Cam back until you can find another QB, and they are a playoff team.
I'm with you. I think "disastrous" is harsh, but I think the anointing of this guy as the savior was bordering on outrageous.
But you're right, the fact that we wanted him and didn't even get him in the door is utterly embarrassing.
And if you don't think Gettleman's presence is a problem you're fucking high.
There's a better chance of Steve Belicheck becoming the head coach of the Giants. And not even right away. After he gets fired from his first head coaching job.
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In comment 14762792 cosmicj said:
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I think we dodged a bullet here.
I do, too.
But its an indictment on Jints Central that a first year owner just schooled them in the art of negotiation.
First year owner, but one of the most successful business men of our time. Meanwhile we're being run by trust fund babies
Agreed. But you get the point...
How is it not? Hes the fucking GM
What? Because he took a job before completing all scheduled interviews? What a ridiculous take. He got an offer he felt he couldn't refuse, would you turn it down?
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Rock. Fucking. Bottom.
You actually think the Giants paid for his ticket? Hahaha. They just told him what time to be here and Gettleman will have one of his computer guys fix the typewriter to make him a contract.
link - ( New Window )
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Yeah I'm sure partisan politics were the deciding factor. Fuckwit.
And if you don't think Gettleman's presence is a problem you're fucking high.
I think you are right on both comments. DG probably was one of the factors besides the money and besides the fact the owner flew to his place and went to see him. That speaks volumes. We screwed the pooch big time, but it looks to me we probably would have lost out to his money offer as well as having DG overlooking the HC.
We've been hearing about people in their jobs for decades being an issue. That's not Gettleman. He's here for now, for the short term. The Mara's are here forever.
Rock. Fucking. Bottom.
There. Is. No. Bottom.
I'm with ya buddy. Fuck him!
You can say all you want about Gettleman, but the fact that he didnt interview here doesnt absolve him of anything. The only thing we know is Rhule didnt think enough of us to even listen. Whats your explanation? And when we learn the actual money on the deal and it isnt even that astronomical, how will you defend this organization then?
I am not panicking, yet, will save that when they actually hire Garrett.
Do we know for a fact that people around the league respect DJ as much as BBI and the people connected with the Giants? Maybe he's viewed as an issue rather than a positive? We don't know.
asking for a friend!
Results dont lie. 4-12 in year 2 of a rebuild, worst team in football the last 3 years and none of the top 3 coaching candidates gave us a sniff.
DG is certainly part of the problem and should have been cut with Shurmur. But this is an organizational problem. Front office, program - including the analytics program, org structure, etc.
We need a total and complete makeover.
This is bad. Major wakeup call this coaching search has been. DG fumbling through that presser last week cemented my thoughts on him. Hes a loser. And so is this front office and organization.
Wow.
@JordanRaanan
1m
Shocked! is how some people close to Matt Rhule are that he didnt make it to an interview with the Giants.
OTOH - LOL at the folks treating Matt Rhule like some incredible get. Guy has not accomplished anywhere near enough for the hype he gets. Good chance we land somebody better in spite of ourselves.
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Please leave NJ today. The state's average IQ will be better for it.
Take that! - ( New Window )
Whether it was the fact that Tepper flew to Waco while NYG insisted on Rhule coming to them; or CAR gave him much more control; Tepper paid him a boatload of money he knew NYG wouldn't pay...this is black eye for this org, and hopefully a wake-up call. But I wouldn't count on that.
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how the first thing people say is that it is Gettleman's fault!
How is it not? Hes the fucking GM
You act like the GM is solely responsible. It's Mara and Tisch as well.
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Good. We can't wait for you to leave. Why do you assume Rhule is conservative?
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And the final reasoning may have nothing to do with football.
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Yeah I'm sure partisan politics were the deciding factor. Fuckwit.
Nice response🙄 you only help to prove my point. Cursing at me is cute too. 🤤
Maybe he doesn't love Daniel Jones. He just picked a job where he's either sick with expensive and injured Can Newton or a draft pick...instead of Jones.
Beat me to it.
Plus - I said it yesterday - the Carolina job is easier.
Just like Temple and Baylor. They are 2nd "rate" for lack of a better word programs.
Not surprised Tepper opened his wallet. Remember there's a buyout at Baylor also. He's getting more there than he would here, for sure.
Maybe he doesn't love Daniel Jones. He just picked a job where he's either sick with expensive and injured Can Newton or a draft pick...instead of Jones.
Yup, just said the same a few posts above. If he doesn't secure a QB in the first year or two, he's finished. But that's better than interviewing with the Giants.
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And the final reasoning may have nothing to do with football.
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Good. We can't wait for you to leave. Why do you assume Rhule is conservative?
I dont - but reports said he and his family loved Waco and their life there. Its a big change to go from there to NJ. Not so much, Charlotte.
Maybe the Giants like one of the other candidates who is more willing to work within the structure.
Maybe Rhule was top of the board, but not so far ahead that Giants were ready to sell their soul to get him.
Maybe the Giants knew Rhule was likely going to Panthers and chose to stay in NY to finalize their search, knowing Rhule wasn't interviewing either way. I highly doubt location of a wine and dine was the deciding factor.
This is a big blow to the organization's image. And like you, I am not a Rhule guy at all.
But it's shocking when you boil this outcome down to this - we couldn't even get an interview with the current Baylor University HC. The guy who said this was his dream job. Just think about that...
If that doesn't cause Mara to look more inward, nothing will...
They should have been on Tisch's plane a week ago once Baylor got rolled by Georgia if Rhule was TRULY their top guy.
Maybe he doesn't love Daniel Jones. He just picked a job where he's either sick with expensive and injured Can Newton or a draft pick...instead of Jones.
Maybe he actually doesn't like the current Alignment more...
Would have loved to interview him but if he wanted Carolina let him go......
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Rhule said in his interview that you need to things: a quarterback and alignment.
Maybe he doesn't love Daniel Jones. He just picked a job where he's either sick with expensive and injured Can Newton or a draft pick...instead of Jones.
Maybe he actually doesn't like the current Alignment more...
Yup - mentioned it above, if it's not the FO structure then it's Barkley/Jones, or some ridiculous financial package the Giants couldn't meet (which is unlikely, but possible).
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And the final reasoning may have nothing to do with football.
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Please leave NJ today. The state's average IQ will be better for it.
I would leave if I could but family ties come first. As for the states IQ, one would think with the number of people fleeing the state in recent years there would be a brain drain. Good luck paying those public pensions.
Wow. Thats one hell of a deal for a guy that spent only 1 year in the NFL
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And the final reasoning may have nothing to do with football.
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Yeah I'm sure partisan politics were the deciding factor. Fuckwit.
I said this was going to happen NY is not very attractive for many. I said Ron didn't want to move to NY, I said Rhule would find NC more attractive. We are going to get a coach hungry but without a lot of choices. Its ok. but get it through your skulls NY is low tier destination now. Enjoy
Maybe he doesn't love Daniel Jones. He just picked a job where he's either sick with expensive and injured Can Newton or a draft pick...instead of Jones.
I don't think it's as dire. They will have options in the short term. I was kicking this around with FMiC yesterday. There is a good chance the Panthers will get Carr, Dalton, or Rivers. And then look for longer term solutions...
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even interview here if the reports are true.
That's not about Gettleman, it is Tepper giving him a deal he couldn't pass up.
You don't know that either way.
Tepper is a hugely successful hedge fund guy, and if his interviews are any indication, he's got a pretty contemporary view of how to build an organization. Rhule is clearly a culture builder and not a system/playbook guy. Add to that Charlotte is a really great place to raise a family like his. They are on the threshold of the decision regarding the next QB, who will have an O built around he and McCaffrey. If they can put a better secondary behind Kuechly+Thompson and their soon-to-be healthy front they will get back on track defensively.
Too many boxes checked on CAR's side, it seems.
That said, Tepper hasn't shown that he knows how to own a football team, nor is Rhule a lock to put the right staff in place and run things successfully at this level. Let's see how both of them conduct themselves when things go a little south. First test is what level of class and professionalism they handle the Cam situation going forward.
This is why I stated earlier to wait for the contract details come out before jumping...
As usual Carl has a great point. Rhule is a manipulator a trait of all good coaches
I was supremely confident until I saw Colin Cowherd's interview with Jay Glazer yesterday. Colin felt rather strongly the Giants were a really good job to get and Jay kinda went, "Ehhh...". He said the Browns give a head coaching candidate a list of 13 general manager prospects they could hire to work with while the Giants are totally committed to Dave Gettleman."
Then we find out Gettleman is one of the guys conducting the freakin' interviews. I should've known right then this was probably not going to be as easy as I thought.
There's only 1 word for it... Knicksian.
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I know you take a lot of heat for negativity about this franchises front office. I havent been as extreme, but I think Im getting there.
This is a big blow to the organization's image. And like you, I am not a Rhule guy at all.
But it's shocking when you boil this outcome down to this - we couldn't even get an interview with the current Baylor University HC. The guy who said this was his dream job. Just think about that...
If that doesn't cause Mara to look more inward, nothing will...
They should have been on Tisch's plane a week ago once Baylor got rolled by Georgia if Rhule was TRULY their top guy.
We are a bottom feeder and our Front Office doesn't see it.
Nor do the defenders here...
And there would have been a revolution here about not doing a thorough and honest search.
Giants most likely had salary parameters set with his team. I agree with posters that money is a factor for the Giants. Tepper most likely identified his coach and asked "what will it take to cancel the rest of your interviews" with a firm we have a deal now or we don't.
.
There will be a lot of negative spin. I will wait till we see the product in September. Keep drafting well, hit on a couple free agents and hope Jones takes a big step forward and we will win next year.
Coaching is exceptionally important but talent is still king imo.
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report just said it is going to be in the neighborhood of a 7 year $75M deal with incentives. Guy is usually off by a little bit, but that is some good coin as well as a lot of years for a 1st time head coach.
Wow. Thats one hell of a deal for a guy that spent only 1 year in the NFL
He had $80 million from Baylor sitting on the table. People had to know Rhule wasn't taking some shit contract like McAdoo or Shurmur.
2) Tepper just opening his wallet and giving Rhule whatever he wanted
3) Purely speculative, but maybe Rhule was offended by the whole "You come to us" instead of "we come to you" thing. Carolina brass came to Waco. They weren't too high and mighty to fly out to the city of the Branch Davidians.
Regardless, this is utterly embarrassing for the franchise
We are very likely going to end up with the coach a division rival just fired for underachieving.
We are very likely going to end up with the coach a division rival just fired for underachieving.
But Bellichek is DYING to come here!
Dont even bother. Fans need a villain. Need a scapegoat.
Or it could be that rhule was not even our number one choice and that the giants were never rhules number one choice, which seems obvious now.
Its all DGs fault I know. Even though he came out and said hed do whatever was needed to work with the next HC.
If we made a mistake, it was not getting our asses down to Waco before Carolina did.
Maybe he doesn't love Daniel Jones. He just picked a job where he's either sick with expensive and injured Can Newton or a draft pick...instead of Jones.
Your bias against Jones is growing daily.
If we made a mistake, it was not getting our asses down to Waco before Carolina did.
Already made the Branch Davidians joke. Get your own material!
But yes, I agree totally
If we made a mistake, it was not getting our asses down to Waco before Carolina did.
But the rhetoric by some was that it didnt matter that Carolina scheduled the interview.
Holy hog mollie!
If we made a mistake, it was not getting our asses down to Waco before Carolina did.
This. The Giants should have randomly booked a room in the hotel that Rhule was staying at in Mexico. Tepper beat them to the punch.
And there is no way around the optics. Rhule was one of their top choices and he never interviewed. It's bad and no amount of PR spin will help. Getting Garrett's name out moments later is just insane to me.
OC: Marty Morhenwig
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In comment 14763010 igotyourbackman said:
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And the final reasoning may have nothing to do with football.
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Please leave NJ today. The state's average IQ will be better for it.
I would leave if I could but family ties come first. As for the states IQ, one would think with the number of people fleeing the state in recent years there would be a brain drain. Good luck paying those public pensions.
Are people fleeing? There have been tons of stories recently about how NY is hemorrhaging people. I think that they have lost more than any other state over the past decade; to the point where we will lose a Congressional seat. But, I thought that NJ was one of the places that was collecting the NYers.
...than the Giants, and that meant a lot to Matt Rhule.
If we made a mistake, it was not getting our asses down to Waco before Carolina did.
It's a colossal mistake if Rhule was truly the top candidate.
Coaching is exceptionally important but talent is still king imo.
Are you aware of how the Browns' 2019 season went?
Without a quality HC, you squander the talent at your disposal, like a rich kid with no brains.
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report just said it is going to be in the neighborhood of a 7 year $75M deal with incentives. Guy is usually off by a little bit, but that is some good coin as well as a lot of years for a 1st time head coach.
Wow. Thats one hell of a deal for a guy that spent only 1 year in the NFL
Lets see why he choose NC -He will live like a king down here with that kind of coin -his kids will go to some of the best schools and probably have jobs waiting for them at Teppers fund. He will pay less in taxes, his quality of life will be high, the weather alone is more attractive, they have a rabid fan base here filled with Tri staters now. He will have one of the smartest men in the world backing him in everything. but yeah NY, btw Tepper moved his business and his family from NY to NC too.
But having said all of that, a guy like him probably sacrifices quality of life for quality of job. I can believe he likes the vibe in Carolina better than in the Meadowlands. BUt I am positive that there is a lot more that goes into it than having a GM.
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Rhule said in his interview that you need to things: a quarterback and alignment.
Maybe he doesn't love Daniel Jones. He just picked a job where he's either sick with expensive and injured Can Newton or a draft pick...instead of Jones.
Yup, just said the same a few posts above. If he doesn't secure a QB in the first year or two, he's finished. But that's better than interviewing with the Giants.
That's not how Tepper operates, Rhule will have plenty of time to install a system -he will be coach for years
I actually think Martindale would be a good hire, but Gettleman has to retire soon and not be replaced by Abrams.
The more I turn it over in my mind, the more it comes back to an ownership issue, from whence comes the organisation's culture.
Also, re. Rhule and the quarterback issue: he gets to have input on choosing a quarterback. There must have been discussion on that matter during his interview with the Panthers.
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In comment 14763065 Mr. Bungle said:
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In comment 14763010 igotyourbackman said:
Quote:
And the final reasoning may have nothing to do with football.
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Please leave NJ today. The state's average IQ will be better for it.
I would leave if I could but family ties come first. As for the states IQ, one would think with the number of people fleeing the state in recent years there would be a brain drain. Good luck paying those public pensions.
Are people fleeing? There have been tons of stories recently about how NY is hemorrhaging people. I think that they have lost more than any other state over the past decade; to the point where we will lose a Congressional seat. But, I thought that NJ was one of the places that was collecting the NYers.
Tri State area is hemorrhaging their tax base -its why they need immigrants legal and illegal federal money is very important to them. TX, AZ FL, NC are very attractive alternatives.
Just heard this on SiriusXM NFL radio. Yes.
@AdamSchefter
1m
Panthers are giving former Baylor HC Matt Rhule a seven-year - seven year - deal worth $60 million that with incentives could be worth up to $70 million, per league sources.
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
6m
One note on the #Giants: Matt Rhule called them before signing his 6-year deal with the #Panthers and gave them the opportunity to match and lure him to get on the plane. They declined and hired Joe Judge instead.
Charlotte aint NYC.
Hes already and will be making millions no matter where he goes, cost of living doesnt factor into this. This is a football decision strictly.
Of course, 10M, if true, likely exceeds what the Giants could offer, but not even giving us a listen is a bad look. If Teppers offer is take it or leave it, whats so bad about returning to his cush Baylor job. The bottom line, we werent attractive to him.
2m
Panthers are giving former Baylor HC Matt Rhule a seven-year - seven year - deal worth $60 million that with incentives could be worth up to $70 million, per league sources.
If that's true,he was willing to take considerably less (real money in his pocket looking at area living costs) to sign with the Giants.
Sounds like Mara and/or Tisch objected to the salary tactic, more perhaps than the man.
Sorry, but I don't blame the Giants for declining. No interview, and they get a "can you match this?" call from a guy who has never even been an NFL coordinator? Who the fuck does he think he is, an in his prime Bill Parcells?
@AdamSchefter
1m
Panthers are giving former Baylor HC Matt Rhule a seven-year - seven year - deal worth $60 million that with incentives could be worth up to $70 million, per league sources.
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
6m
One note on the #Giants: Matt Rhule called them before signing his 6-year deal with the #Panthers and gave them the opportunity to match and lure him to get on the plane. They declined and hired Joe Judge instead.
WHOA, Hired Joe Judge?? or are interviewing Joe Judge?
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In comment 14763065 Mr. Bungle said:
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In comment 14763010 igotyourbackman said:
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And the final reasoning may have nothing to do with football.
Who wants to live in NJ anymore? High tax, liberal, crowded and polluted compared to NC/SC - low tax, less crowded, conservative leaning.
If its my family and the money is equal - Im choosing the south every time.
I cant wait to leave NJ.
Please leave NJ today. The state's average IQ will be better for it.
I would leave if I could but family ties come first. As for the states IQ, one would think with the number of people fleeing the state in recent years there would be a brain drain. Good luck paying those public pensions.
Are people fleeing? There have been tons of stories recently about how NY is hemorrhaging people. I think that they have lost more than any other state over the past decade; to the point where we will lose a Congressional seat. But, I thought that NJ was one of the places that was collecting the NYers.
Nope, They're jumping on the turnpike and heading south right into Delaware and beyond.
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Sounds like Mara and/or Tisch objected to the salary tactic, more perhaps than the man.
I'd argue the salary tactic says a great deal about the man...
No thanks.
2m
Panthers are giving former Baylor HC Matt Rhule a seven-year - seven year - deal worth $60 million that with incentives could be worth up to $70 million, per league sources.
Ugh 7 years, F that.
Charlotte aint NYC.
Hes already and will be making millions no matter where he goes, cost of living doesnt factor into this. This is a football decision strictly.
Of course, 10M, if true, likely exceeds what the Giants could offer, but not even giving us a listen is a bad look. If Teppers offer is take it or leave it, whats so bad about returning to his cush Baylor job. The bottom line, we werent attractive to him.
Listen NYC aint NYC anymore either.
Not to say that he will not be an excellent coach, but if you read the comments it is as if we missed out on a cant miss opportunity.
Not to say that he will not be an excellent coach, but if you read the comments it is as if we missed out on a cant miss opportunity.
Company totes
The guy has accomplished. NOTHING.
Carolina gave him 7 years and a ton of money and bought out Baylor making him one of the top paid coaches in the NFL for what? The question is did you think he was leaving his 8 year 6-8M a year deal for a short term lower money NFL deal?
Thank God they didn't match because he won't see the end of that contract.
The guy has accomplished. NOTHING.
Carolina gave him 7 years and a ton of money and bought out Baylor making him one of the top paid coaches in the NFL for what? The question is did you think he was leaving his 8 year 6-8M a year deal for a short term lower money NFL deal?
Thank God they didn't match because he won't see the end of that contract.
If Matt Rhule has accomplished nothing, then what has the guy the Giants ultimately hired accomplished? Sub-nothing?
Justlurking : 10:05 am : link : reply
Stop defending people when you don't know what the fuck happened and you have been wrong about literally everything for 3 straight years.
Look at that. Gave some contract details about the Panthers and Rhule that ended up being true. This blind squirrel is going to be fat this Winter!!
Part of the reason a coach with options drives a hard bargain is so that he doesn't uproot his entire life so he can be bounced after 2 seasons. The commitment on both sides becomes substantial.
If the Giants are looking for another head coach in two years, then everyone needs to go, including the people who own the team.
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Hiring any head coach is going to be an uncertain process. That would be true of Rhule, that is true of Judge. It does not make sense to commit big dollars to a coach who is anything but a sure thing. I am not in love with Judge, but he gets a chance. If he fails, they have to move on. We should know after two years whether the direction is good or bad. And, if it is good after two years, in all likelihood, it will be longer before we know whether he is the long term answer.
Part of the reason a coach with options drives a hard bargain is so that he doesn't uproot his entire life so he can be bounced after 2 seasons. The commitment on both sides becomes substantial.
If the Giants are looking for another head coach in two yeveryone needs to go, including the people who own the team.
really, how? They own the team.
It is not outside the realm of possibility that the Panthers just blew him away. Or, he really took to them flying to Texas to meet him. Or, he just thinks this organization is a real shit show. Or, any other number of possible reasons. So, let's not pretend every move that doesn't work out is because Gettleman is in charge, just like many of the other myths that get exaggerated and overused here.
fail fast works when you are in competition, not out of the gamee.
Judge seems to have killed his interview and there's so little known about him, so I don't quite know how anyone can say anything definitive about him. Hope he puts together a quality staff.
Excellent post
Glad you kept this agnostic. When I said Rhule didn't even interview here so why are people killing Gettleman, you'd swear I'm the guy's PR manager!
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so this will have to suffice...I am so sick of all the fan speculations, media speculations, rumors, etc. based on absolutely no facts. Especially on a site like BBI, they start to get regurgitated as fact and/or accepted as fact by people that come in late to the conversation. If you don't know shit, don't say shit. At the very least, make it clear it is your opinion, gut feeling, etc. based on absolutely no information.
Glad you kept this agnostic. When I said Rhule didn't even interview here so why are people killing Gettleman, you'd swear I'm the guy's PR manager!
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In comment 14765044 Matt M. said:
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so this will have to suffice...I am so sick of all the fan speculations, media speculations, rumors, etc. based on absolutely no facts. Especially on a site like BBI, they start to get regurgitated as fact and/or accepted as fact by people that come in late to the conversation. If you don't know shit, don't say shit. At the very least, make it clear it is your opinion, gut feeling, etc. based on absolutely no information.
Glad you kept this agnostic. When I said Rhule didn't even interview here so why are people killing Gettleman, you'd swear I'm the guy's PR manager!
That was one of the streams that got me annoyed. Everyone, media included, is just making stuff up about interviews, schedules, offers, etc. There's more rumor spread as fact here than a Star Wars fan site.
...Gettleman, you'd swear I'm the guy's PR manager!
That's been firmly established. Yes.
First maintaining gross incompetence by the FO based on assumptions that turned out to be complete shit - yet he keeps plugging along.
Now, we hired a guy with no experience bound to fail because the decision making of the org sucks!
First maintaining gross incompetence by the FO based on assumptions that turned out to be complete shit - yet he keeps plugging along.
Now, we hired a guy with no experience bound to fail because the decision making of the org sucks!
I actually find the hire interesting. Said as much on a few other threads. Concerned by (1) his ability to hire his own staff, (2) his network/rolodex, and (3) managing this media.
If I'm going to work for the Giants ownership actually running player personnel is a bigger red flag me for me than the guy the owners hired as GM. As a new coach you can gain influence over him if you need to. You're not gaining influence over one of the owners.
This is stated as fact by our resident Redskins fan and will be regurgitated through many threads for the foreseeable future.
It's all good over at bwCentral, he now has the endless material to work with.
If I'm going to work for the Giants ownership actually running player personnel is a bigger red flag me for me than the guy the owners hired as GM. As a new coach you can gain influence over him if you need to. You're not gaining influence over one of the owners.
Yeah, maybe Rhule asked the Giants to match just to see if they would. Then he'd say "I'm not going to work with Gettleman!! Ha!"
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with Gettleman but he's 68 and with the Giants for the short term. I really think the people clued into the league are smarter than that but in fairness to the agents putting most of this out in public the last two Giants coaches only lasted two years. So two years of Dave might be their whole run.
If I'm going to work for the Giants ownership actually running player personnel is a bigger red flag me for me than the guy the owners hired as GM. As a new coach you can gain influence over him if you need to. You're not gaining influence over one of the owners.
Yeah, maybe Rhule asked the Giants to match just to see if they would. Then he'd say "I'm not going to work with Gettleman!! Ha!"
"Fail forward" is the new buzz for the next couple of months.
In Carolina, there's no QB except for an aging Cam Newton and there's a locker room full of veterans who completely and totally quit when Ron Rivera was fired.
The short term success might be with Carolina, but the sustainability favors the Giants IMO.
I didn't say that. I did say, however, this hiring does re-affirm Gettleman's GM power.
Can you honestly suggest that Judge will have real input in the player selection process? Input that Mara said last week he was open to with the "right guy"?
Can you honestly suggest that Judge will have real input in the player selection process? Input that Mara said last week he was open to with the "right guy"?
See I can play this game too, can you honestly say he won't have any input? As mentioned in the other threads where you continue to parrot this theory, we don't know one way or the other. Why not let the process work itself out? If Judge has no power or input on staff and players, I will gladly eat crow. If this turns out to be false, you will just find something else to latch on to.
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It's all good, he was able to come up with a new narrative in quick fashion. They only hired Judge because he is the guy to allow DG to make all of the coaching staff hires.
I didn't say that. I did say, however, this hiring does re-affirm Gettleman's GM power.
Can you honestly suggest that Judge will have real input in the player selection process? Input that Mara said last week he was open to with the "right guy"?
The most valid concerns I saw from you are his rolodex, so to speak, and will he be allowed to hire his staff. The two may go hand in hand or the former may impact the latter. Let's see.
The bottom line is, I was so disgusted with the last 2coaching staffs, to a man, that I welcome a very new direction taken by the organization. I will only hope they are open enough to allowing him to act like a HC and make decisions. Otherwise, it doesn't matter who they hired.
See I can play this game too, can you honestly say he won't have any input? As mentioned in the other threads where you continue to parrot this theory, we don't know one way or the other. Why not let the process work itself out? If Judge has no power or input on staff and players, I will gladly eat crow. If this turns out to be false, you will just find something else to latch on to.
Fair enough.
But let's apply the common sense factor - with absolutely no HC, coordinator experience, or personnel experience, do you expect Judge to have input?