there are other players there in the 2nd round who are interesting(OTMekhi Becton, WR KJ Hamler, CB AJ Terrell, OT Prince Tega Wanogho, or Terrell Lewis).
I like Weaver too, just interesting to see where the things fall for those prospects.
the first OT went at #10. The interesting thing here is the #3 pick. If the Lions take Hebert or Tua then our spot at #4 will be the hot ticket item for the Dolphins (1 pick below), Chargers, Panthers and maybe even the Raiders. There will be QB hungry teams that will want to jump to our spot.
for Simmons. I know he's a freak athlete. Still looks to me like a Jack of all trades, master of none. You can't take a flyer on that with the 4th pick.
pass on Simmons, Weaver in the second is good value.
A trade down works better for me, this draft in particular has a ton of value stacking up in the second round.
I wouldn't mind Simmons but I agree about trading back.
The way that mock looks there's no reason we couldn't play Miami, SD and Carolina against each other. Best case is trade back one with Miami and get as much as possible if they're worried about losing out on Tua to one of the others, and then do the same with SD to keep Catolina at bay. for Herbert.
for Simmons. I know he's a freak athlete. Still looks to me like a Jack of all trades, master of none. You can't take a flyer on that with the 4th pick.
Agreed. I don't how we don't take a OT in the first two rounds.
pass on Simmons, Weaver in the second is good value.
A trade down works better for me, this draft in particular has a ton of value stacking up in the second round.
+1, this may turn into a Tua draft. If he and is team can convince the NFL that he's healthy a lot of teams needing a QB will try to jump Miami and come knocking at the Giants door with trade down bids.
pass on Simmons, Weaver in the second is good value.
A trade down works better for me, this draft in particular has a ton of value stacking up in the second round.
Just curious is your issue with Simmons in general or at #4? I think he is a prototypical LB for todays NFL but, maybe be more fitted for a 4-3.
I'm looking forward to seeing what Simmons does against LSU. I think Ohio State, with Fields and Dobbins was a tougher matchup for Simmons that made him look somewhat average. I think maybe he has a better showing against LSU.
If this is the draft and you have Miami and the Chargers thinking QB. Perhaps Carolina is willing to massively overpay in picks considering that Matt Rhules one of 2 conditions was a QB.
His QB can’t be the old, overpaid and injured Cam Newton and perhaps Rhule likes either Tua or Herbert. Rhule must be very familiar with Herbert as nearly accepted the Oregon job.
We've been doing it for a while in several threads. For argument's sake, let's say the Giants really like him and they do draft him there (no trading down, again, this year). To quote Ric Flair, "Whether you like it or not, learn to love it!"
I don't mind drafting an impact defender there (or at least someone they believe will be one), however, if they did that and didn't draft an offensive lineman in the 2nd Round, then someone in East Rutherford needs to get punched in the head.
relies on Tua still available at 4 with Mia in back of us. I don't think Wash trades out of #2 which leaves Det #3 as the next sure QB slot, not #4. Mia has the draft equity to move to #3 taking Tua or whatever QB they really want or risk someone else moving to #3 or #4. We are not in the driver seat at #4 unless another QB rises to the top of the heap along with Tua (which I don't think moves down, but anything can happen).
big a need as OT, Simmons just seems a bit frail to play inside in the NFL. He is tall and fast, so perfect to cover TE's especially with his Safety background. But he just seems to thin for ILB vs the run.
I think this is the year for a trade down. Miami will not give enough, IMV. Carolina, Jax or Raiders will offer good return. I also think Miami goes after the Detroit #3.
Biggest priorities:
OT
ILB
C
I think they get ER in FA.
If Tua and Herbert are really going back to back Â
right after our pick, then Miami should be willing to give something up to ensure they get him. Same with Chargers. In theory we would be able to trade back just one or two slots and get an additional pick and still get Simmons.
To get him. You make Chargers or Panthers pay to get their guy. We steal at least a 3rd or 2nd to move back 2-3 spots and get Simmons. We are in the best actual spot for trades we have ever been in.
relies on Tua still available at 4 with Mia in back of us. I don't think Wash trades out of #2 which leaves Det #3 as the next sure QB slot, not #4. Mia has the draft equity to move to #3 taking Tua or whatever QB they really want or risk someone else moving to #3 or #4. We are not in the driver seat at #4 unless another QB rises to the top of the heap along with Tua (which I don't think moves down, but anything can happen).
No doubt about that. My trade scenario above was based on Burrow, Young and Okudah going 1-2-3.
If Detroit trades out of 3 and Okudah is there at 4 I'd take him there no question unless I could trade back 1 spot to a team wanting Herbert and Okudah would still be available.
Sure a trade down would be perfect, but they are much easier done on Â
paper. Teams don't like giving up picks.If we can't trade down, and we do really like one of the OT's, I say take him at #4. I don't care if he is projected to go at #10 or #11, he's not going to be there again for us. If we love him then make him ours 6 slots earlier than "concensus", so what.
about the "don't want Simmons at 4" crowd...every year it seems we convince ourselves that players aren't worth a top 5 selection, top 10 selection...etc. And every year, like clockwork, there are awesome players picked there that we either don't think are worth it, or were not in the "consensus" top picks from the media.
If we take Simmons at 4...who knows? He could be a great NFL player and pro bowl type talent. Let's not act like we know what his career will be.
Eli Apple went 10th overall, and guys like Sy were over the moon with the pick. A lot of people thought Beckham was a reach because he was somewhat unknown. Draft is mostly a crap shoot, you just never know.
paper. Teams don't like giving up picks.If we can't trade down, and we do really like one of the OT's, I say take him at #4. I don't care if he is projected to go at #10 or #11, he's not going to be there again for us. If we love him then make him ours 6 slots earlier than "concensus", so what.
Agreed....trading down seems great in theory...until you realize you actually need another team that wants to do it. If we take a OT at 4 that is a top tier talent and can start right away and has pro bowl type potential, i'm all for it. No prospect is perfect.
RE: Sure a trade down would be perfect, but they are much easier done on Â
paper. Teams don't like giving up picks.If we can't trade down, and we do really like one of the OT's, I say take him at #4. I don't care if he is projected to go at #10 or #11, he's not going to be there again for us. If we love him then make him ours 6 slots earlier than "concensus", so what.
Agreed about trades being easier said than done but if Tua and Herbert are there when we pick at 4 knowing Miami, SD and Carolina are in the market, that's about as ideal a scenario for a trade back as could be IMO.
there's positional value relative to scheme, there's needs and their respective urgency, there's a long list of variables in addition to Simmons not being (in my eyes) the swiss army knife many here believe he'll be. I'd even reach for an OT or trade it before considering him. The #4 overall pick needs to be maximized, he's a gamble.
I love the thought of going defense-defense.
The Giants cannot win without adding premium players to the defense.
Is there one player on the defense that you can call a star? There are some young players that are improving and may become very good. With the fourth pick or a trade down I hope that the Giants can come away with an impact defensive player. Young is not realistic, but Okudah, Simmons, Epenesa, Brown, .....
While an OT is also needed, I believe that the Giants can acquire an OL via free agency.
I also think that a new offensive coordinator and OL coach will improve the players that we have.
When the Giants have won it is because they have an outstanding defense. I think that it is time to focus on defense and get back to Giants football.
for Simmons. I know he's a freak athlete. Still looks to me like a Jack of all trades, master of none. You can't take a flyer on that with the 4th pick.
the Giants will be in position to trade down, a team will want to move up for Tua. Don't get too stuck in semantics in this situation.
That'd be the most ideal situation. Lions take a player at 3...we trade back a few spots and pick up an extra 2nd and perhaps, just maybe a 2021 1st.
This would mean the Det would value Okudah more than multiple firsts (the minimum to move into this QB slot). I doubt any team values anybody (other than QB or Chase) that high. IMO Det will move out of this slot, much like we would want to do if we were sitting at #3.
if you can't figure out how to have him impact the game, then you shouldn't be a Defensive Coordinator. The guy is a swiss army knife that creates unpredictability and big plays. He is a matchup nightmare.
Not saying we should not trade down, but I would want trade down and also get him. We need an impact player on the defensive side of the ball.
the Giants will be in position to trade down, a team will want to move up for Tua. Don't get too stuck in semantics in this situation.
What’s cool is Justin Herbert is playing in the Senior Bowl, and you just know some team is going to fall in love with him. I think there’s a good chance he ends up going before Tua.
With three QB-needy teams drafting right after the Giants Â
the Giants will be in position to trade down, a team will want to move up for Tua. Don't get too stuck in semantics in this situation.
What’s cool is Justin Herbert is playing in the Senior Bowl, and you just know some team is going to fall in love with him. I think there’s a good chance he ends up going before Tua.
I think there's a shot. He's got the mobility, physical, accuracy, and arm talent that are hard to find. Eason does as well, but he's a bit greener with the accuracy and decision making. Like both QBs a lot, would be looking at both if we didn't pick Jones.
if the Giants had their heart set on Simmons or someone else at 4, and the Chargers wanted to move up from 6 for a QB, then if you believe this draft board, Herbert and Tua will go 4/5 and then they're still guaranteed the guy they want plus an extra pick or picks in their pocket.
Who knows if Gettleman and Abrams will process all of that, though - because after all, it isn't the "Giants Way" or something.
A trade down works better for me, this draft in particular has a ton of value stacking up in the second round.
I like Weaver too, just interesting to see where the things fall for those prospects.
A trade down works better for me, this draft in particular has a ton of value stacking up in the second round.
Just curious is your issue with Simmons in general or at #4? I think he is a prototypical LB for todays NFL but, maybe be more fitted for a 4-3.
A trade down works better for me, this draft in particular has a ton of value stacking up in the second round.
I wouldn't mind Simmons but I agree about trading back.
The way that mock looks there's no reason we couldn't play Miami, SD and Carolina against each other. Best case is trade back one with Miami and get as much as possible if they're worried about losing out on Tua to one of the others, and then do the same with SD to keep Catolina at bay. for Herbert.
Agreed. I don't how we don't take a OT in the first two rounds.
A trade down works better for me, this draft in particular has a ton of value stacking up in the second round.
+1, this may turn into a Tua draft. If he and is team can convince the NFL that he's healthy a lot of teams needing a QB will try to jump Miami and come knocking at the Giants door with trade down bids.
Quote:
pass on Simmons, Weaver in the second is good value.
A trade down works better for me, this draft in particular has a ton of value stacking up in the second round.
Just curious is your issue with Simmons in general or at #4? I think he is a prototypical LB for todays NFL but, maybe be more fitted for a 4-3.
I'm looking forward to seeing what Simmons does against LSU. I think Ohio State, with Fields and Dobbins was a tougher matchup for Simmons that made him look somewhat average. I think maybe he has a better showing against LSU.
Quote:
pass on Simmons, Weaver in the second is good value.
A trade down works better for me, this draft in particular has a ton of value stacking up in the second round.
Just curious is your issue with Simmons in general or at #4? I think he is a prototypical LB for todays NFL but, maybe be more fitted for a 4-3.
Too high a pick for his style of play. Quite frankly, I dislike his style of play, and those legs of his are going to get broken.
Yes, note the OTs not going high, it's not looking good for an OT of value at #4.
A trade down works better for me, this draft in particular has a ton of value stacking up in the second round.
I agree. Possibly with the Colts then take Wills? Fills a need and maybe we get another two picks.
Surprising to see both Centers go so early, I don’t even like the center from Michigan. We better have something up our sleeve
cbs mock draft - ( New Window )
His QB can’t be the old, overpaid and injured Cam Newton and perhaps Rhule likes either Tua or Herbert. Rhule must be very familiar with Herbert as nearly accepted the Oregon job.
I don't mind drafting an impact defender there (or at least someone they believe will be one), however, if they did that and didn't draft an offensive lineman in the 2nd Round, then someone in East Rutherford needs to get punched in the head.
I think this is the year for a trade down. Miami will not give enough, IMV. Carolina, Jax or Raiders will offer good return. I also think Miami goes after the Detroit #3.
Biggest priorities:
OT
ILB
C
I think they get ER in FA.
No doubt about that. My trade scenario above was based on Burrow, Young and Okudah going 1-2-3.
If Detroit trades out of 3 and Okudah is there at 4 I'd take him there no question unless I could trade back 1 spot to a team wanting Herbert and Okudah would still be available.
If we take Simmons at 4...who knows? He could be a great NFL player and pro bowl type talent. Let's not act like we know what his career will be.
Eli Apple went 10th overall, and guys like Sy were over the moon with the pick. A lot of people thought Beckham was a reach because he was somewhat unknown. Draft is mostly a crap shoot, you just never know.
Agreed....trading down seems great in theory...until you realize you actually need another team that wants to do it. If we take a OT at 4 that is a top tier talent and can start right away and has pro bowl type potential, i'm all for it. No prospect is perfect.
Agreed about trades being easier said than done but if Tua and Herbert are there when we pick at 4 knowing Miami, SD and Carolina are in the market, that's about as ideal a scenario for a trade back as could be IMO.
That'd be the most ideal situation. Lions take a player at 3...we trade back a few spots and pick up an extra 2nd and perhaps, just maybe a 2021 1st.
The Giants cannot win without adding premium players to the defense.
Is there one player on the defense that you can call a star? There are some young players that are improving and may become very good. With the fourth pick or a trade down I hope that the Giants can come away with an impact defensive player. Young is not realistic, but Okudah, Simmons, Epenesa, Brown, .....
While an OT is also needed, I believe that the Giants can acquire an OL via free agency.
I also think that a new offensive coordinator and OL coach will improve the players that we have.
When the Giants have won it is because they have an outstanding defense. I think that it is time to focus on defense and get back to Giants football.
...when we have a desperate need for Left Tackle and Center?
Grab OT Thomas (or OT Wirfs) & OC Biadasz. OL fixed. Solder Hernandez Biadasz Zeitler Thomas.
...coming off the Board at #18.
I said it before, I'll say it again:
I have no problem taking this guy at #4.
Take
Wirfs, Epenesa, or Wills at #12
Humphrey, Murray, Delpit at #18
Becton or best in round 2
Best outcome IMO Epenesa, Humphrey, Becton
Would you take Troy Polumalu with the 4th pick?
Quote:
the Giants will be in position to trade down, a team will want to move up for Tua. Don't get too stuck in semantics in this situation.
That'd be the most ideal situation. Lions take a player at 3...we trade back a few spots and pick up an extra 2nd and perhaps, just maybe a 2021 1st.
This would mean the Det would value Okudah more than multiple firsts (the minimum to move into this QB slot). I doubt any team values anybody (other than QB or Chase) that high. IMO Det will move out of this slot, much like we would want to do if we were sitting at #3.
Not saying we should not trade down, but I would want trade down and also get him. We need an impact player on the defensive side of the ball.
...when we have a desperate need for Left Tackle and Center?
The draft isn't about desperate need, that's UFA.
What’s cool is Justin Herbert is playing in the Senior Bowl, and you just know some team is going to fall in love with him. I think there’s a good chance he ends up going before Tua.
Quote:
the Giants will be in position to trade down, a team will want to move up for Tua. Don't get too stuck in semantics in this situation.
What’s cool is Justin Herbert is playing in the Senior Bowl, and you just know some team is going to fall in love with him. I think there’s a good chance he ends up going before Tua.
I think there's a shot. He's got the mobility, physical, accuracy, and arm talent that are hard to find. Eason does as well, but he's a bit greener with the accuracy and decision making. Like both QBs a lot, would be looking at both if we didn't pick Jones.
Who knows if Gettleman and Abrams will process all of that, though - because after all, it isn't the "Giants Way" or something.