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Bob Papa Sits Down with Joe Judge

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/9/2020 1:28 pm
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This sounds promising for the New York Giants.  
Affirmation : 1/9/2020 2:00 pm : link
I'm really liking his attitude and persona, his overall approach is spot on. He also seems to have a clear philosophy that actually makes sense also.
RE: He seems focus...  
bronxct1 : 1/9/2020 2:00 pm : link
In comment 14769724 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
Buts its hard to take his supposed attention to detail seriously given the shoe choice.


lol what does that mean?
RE: RE: ...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/9/2020 2:01 pm : link
In comment 14769669 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14769665 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Evan Engram had not even get a hangnail this year.



LOL. traded maybe? he doesnt scream toughness AT ALL


Isnt he having surgery for the injury this year?
The coddling of players that seems to have taken place here  
Chris684 : 1/9/2020 2:02 pm : link
the last few years appears to be over.

Man  
cokeduplt : 1/9/2020 2:03 pm : link
That was great. Iím excited for this guy now. Heís fiery
We don't need no  
Dr. D : 1/9/2020 2:04 pm : link
fancy guru scheme!
Scheming is really important  
Metnut : 1/9/2020 2:05 pm : link
and stopping the pass is paramount in today's NFL. Sounds like it's just coach speak and he's trying to implement a culture which makes sense, but I hope he doesn't take this stuff literally.
RE: Scheming is really important  
UConn4523 : 1/9/2020 2:08 pm : link
In comment 14769752 Metnut said:
Quote:
and stopping the pass is paramount in today's NFL. Sounds like it's just coach speak and he's trying to implement a culture which makes sense, but I hope he doesn't take this stuff literally.


Haha, what....
No conclusion reached here  
Go Terps : 1/9/2020 2:12 pm : link
Here are the top 5 defenses in rushing YPA:

1. NYJ 3.3
2. TB 3.3
3. PIT 3.8
4. NYG 3.9
5. OAK 3.9

No playoff teams there. Combined record 33-47.

Here are the bottom 5 defenses in rushing YPA:

32. CAR 5.2
31. JAX 5.1
30. CLE 5.0
29. KC 4.9
28. SEA 4.9

Two playoff teams here (KC & SEA). Combined record 40-40.

Here are the top 5 offenses in rushing YPA:

1. BAL 5.5
2. TEN 5.0
3. ARI 5.0
4. DAL 4.8
5. CLE 4.8

Two playoff teams here (BAL & TEN). Combined record 42-37-1. Interesting to note that CLE was top 5 in rushing offense and defense but went 6-10.

Here are the bottom 5 offenses in rushing YPA:

NYJ 3.3 (Note - spent huge money on Leveon Bell...cautionary tale)
MIA 3.3
CHI 3.7
PIT 3.7
LA 3.7 (Note - spent huge money on Todd Gurley...cautionary tale)

No playoff teams here. Combined record 37-43.
Guess his "no fancy scheme"  
Metnut : 1/9/2020 2:16 pm : link
comment is more about being flexible rather than being rigid. That sounds awesome to me and is a better way of reading what he said than how i first reacted.
Kim's first question is on culture  
bigblue5611_2 : 1/9/2020 2:17 pm : link
of course. lol
Interestingly enough  
Dnew15 : 1/9/2020 2:18 pm : link
in another thread I was talking about how bad the mock draft were from January of 2019 - but one guy from Pro Football Weekly had Kaden Smith going rd 2 to the Saints.

That guy was really good down the stretch - might he make EE expendable?
You get to drink from the fire hose!!!  
Motley Two : 1/9/2020 2:20 pm : link
RE: No conclusion reached here  
UConn4523 : 1/9/2020 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14769802 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Here are the top 5 defenses in rushing YPA:

1. NYJ 3.3
2. TB 3.3
3. PIT 3.8
4. NYG 3.9
5. OAK 3.9

No playoff teams there. Combined record 33-47.

Here are the bottom 5 defenses in rushing YPA:

32. CAR 5.2
31. JAX 5.1
30. CLE 5.0
29. KC 4.9
28. SEA 4.9

Two playoff teams here (KC & SEA). Combined record 40-40.

Here are the top 5 offenses in rushing YPA:

1. BAL 5.5
2. TEN 5.0
3. ARI 5.0
4. DAL 4.8
5. CLE 4.8

Two playoff teams here (BAL & TEN). Combined record 42-37-1. Interesting to note that CLE was top 5 in rushing offense and defense but went 6-10.

Here are the bottom 5 offenses in rushing YPA:

NYJ 3.3 (Note - spent huge money on Leveon Bell...cautionary tale)
MIA 3.3
CHI 3.7
PIT 3.7
LA 3.7 (Note - spent huge money on Todd Gurley...cautionary tale)

No playoff teams here. Combined record 37-43.


I honestly don't care. You covet the Pats and what they do. I believe their rush D was 6th or 7th, their special teams were towards the top. Their offense wasn't great for a number of reasons, i believe they were middle of the pack there.

He came from the Pats and saw what has worked there over the years, as well as this year. Shouldn't we work towards that? You've preached countlessly how we should emulate the Pats - but not now?
RE: No conclusion reached here  
Chris684 : 1/9/2020 2:30 pm : link
In comment 14769802 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Here are the top 5 defenses in rushing YPA:

1. NYJ 3.3
2. TB 3.3
3. PIT 3.8
4. NYG 3.9
5. OAK 3.9

No playoff teams there. Combined record 33-47.

Here are the bottom 5 defenses in rushing YPA:

32. CAR 5.2
31. JAX 5.1
30. CLE 5.0
29. KC 4.9
28. SEA 4.9

Two playoff teams here (KC & SEA). Combined record 40-40.

Here are the top 5 offenses in rushing YPA:

1. BAL 5.5
2. TEN 5.0
3. ARI 5.0
4. DAL 4.8
5. CLE 4.8

Two playoff teams here (BAL & TEN). Combined record 42-37-1. Interesting to note that CLE was top 5 in rushing offense and defense but went 6-10.

Here are the bottom 5 offenses in rushing YPA:

NYJ 3.3 (Note - spent huge money on Leveon Bell...cautionary tale)
MIA 3.3
CHI 3.7
PIT 3.7
LA 3.7 (Note - spent huge money on Todd Gurley...cautionary tale)

No playoff teams here. Combined record 37-43.


Yea WTF?

Did you watch The Art of Coaching and you heard Saban and Bill B's take on analytics so now you're off the bus?
UConn  
Go Terps : 1/9/2020 2:31 pm : link
I said it in my post...no conclusions reached.

Talking about the Pats...of course I value what they do. I don't think they're about running the ball and stopping the run, and I don't think Judge is either based on what he said today about not being married to scheme.

I take a lot more from his comment about being willing to throw the ball 50 times in one game, 10 times the next.
You guys are really sensitive  
Go Terps : 1/9/2020 2:32 pm : link
.
that isn't how your previous post read  
UConn4523 : 1/9/2020 2:32 pm : link
just throwing that out there.

I think we are on the same page.
RE: You guys are really sensitive  
Chris684 : 1/9/2020 2:32 pm : link
In comment 14769934 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


Having some fun with you that's all.
ooooohh i like it  
bluetothegrave : 1/9/2020 2:34 pm : link
He even looks like parcells! Hes no dummy so I am sure they will scheme up everything but the general thought of just being tougher and more physical than the other guy is so reminiscent of coughlin and Parcells. Man I like this tough sob.
Giants right now are so comfortable losing and are soft as charmin. I just get the feeling that Judge will not tolerate that bullshit for a second. Schurmur seemed more about protecting his players than motivating them. He was a really nice man. Judge I think has more leader ass kicker in him.
I am all in.
Engram  
stretch234 : 1/9/2020 2:36 pm : link
Maybe Judge figures out he has a weapon and has the OC utilize him to threaten defenses and not as an inline TE.

Usually guys who require foot surgery have a hard time running and playing
I like the stat search Go Terps  
Dnew15 : 1/9/2020 2:40 pm : link
interesting stuff.

Another way to look at the run game is rushing yards per game.
Top 5:
Balt
SF
Tenn
Dallas
Minn

Bottom 5:
Chargers
Pitt
Atlanta
Jets
Miami

Defending the run per game:
Top 5:
TB
NYJ
Philly
Balt
NO

Bottom 5:
Jax
Car
Clev
Wash
Cincy


I posted that info because I thought it was interesting  
Go Terps : 1/9/2020 2:40 pm : link
I don't think winning in today's NFL is about running the ball and stopping the run. I don't think Judge feels that way either. At this point you hear it so much I think it's a throwaway line.

If you had to boil it down very simply (too simply), I think you're trying to get as many yards per offensive play as you can. To me, if you had to try to boil the key to winning and losing down to one measurable number, it's that - yards per play. And I think with the rules the way they are that passing the ball is the best way to achieve a higher Yards/Play.

I found it telling the other day that Derrick Henry was so dominant on the ground, yet Tennessee only scored 14 points and easily could have lost the game had a different bounce or a single big play gone NE's way.

That's why Baltimore has been so brutal this year...when they run the ball they get these huge chunk plays - Jackson's given them the best of both worlds.
RE: He seems focus...  
LS : 1/9/2020 2:45 pm : link
In comment 14769724 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
Buts its hard to take his supposed attention to detail seriously given the shoe choice.


Navy suits are highly versatile. The most popular choice is brown but almost any shoe color will also match this suit. Gray suits pair well with a variety of colors including black, lighter brown or camel. Charcoal suits look best with black or dark burgundy shoes. JoS A Bank
RE: ...  
Gettledogman : 1/9/2020 2:53 pm : link
In comment 14769665 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Evan Engram had not even get a hangnail this year.


He is going to be the first to go if he doesn't kick it inn gear -especially blocking
I'm digging this guy  
santacruzom : 1/9/2020 3:02 pm : link
I've been watching a lot of training videos on Curriculum Development since I may be pursuing it as a career. One early point the presenter made was that there are essentially three categories a person is trained on: Conventions (e.g. terminology and definitions), Algorithims (the step by step processes), and Concepts. A lot of trainers fall into the trap of focusing primarily on the first two and neglecting the Concepts.

I like what he says about how he learned the importance of Conceptual training -- the hows and whys, and not merely the whats.
RE: RE: First  
santacruzom : 1/9/2020 3:06 pm : link
In comment 14769656 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14769651 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


impression... he's all business. Very serious.



And saying all the right things that few can communicate clearly.


My only concern is that I don't yet see much of sense of humor in him. I don't mean this strictly in a sense of joking around but... you can't take everything seriously.
JJ  
Tim in JTown : 1/9/2020 3:19 pm : link
Players need to know what to do, how to do it, what the end result should be, and why it is important.

Build up their ability and versatility so they can think on their feet and make adjustments as the game goes.

Smart, tough, and fundamentally sound.

Weíre gonna play fast. Weíre gonna play tough

I wanna line up and punch the other guy in the nose for 60 minutes.
RE: I liked his answer about  
GiantTuff1 : 1/9/2020 3:20 pm : link
In comment 14769658 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
making sure players understand the "why" behind what they are doing.


EXTREMELY KEY, especially for this generation.
RE: RE: Blue suit  
section125 : 1/9/2020 3:30 pm : link
In comment 14769672 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14769668 The Turk said:


Quote:


brown shoes? What the hell -



sarcasm? thats a standard combo lol


Was thinking the same thing.
RE: I posted that info because I thought it was interesting  
widmerseyebrow : 1/9/2020 3:42 pm : link
In comment 14770037 Go Terps said:
Quote:

I found it telling the other day that Derrick Henry was so dominant on the ground, yet Tennessee only scored 14 points and easily could have lost the game had a different bounce or a single big play gone NE's way.


Eh, that's where numbers don't tell the whole story. Tennessee was in the drivers seat because they were taking the game clock out behind the shed while Brady and Edelman held hands on the sidelines. The score was close, but I think many people watching that game saw a dim outcome for the Patriots. Vrabel was rightly confident in his D and run game, didn't force anything to "outwit" Bill. The only time the Titans weren't choking the life out of NE was when Tannehill decided to play three flies up with the Patriots secondary.
RE: I like the stat search Go Terps  
widmerseyebrow : 1/9/2020 3:44 pm : link
In comment 14770036 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
interesting stuff.

Another way to look at the run game is rushing yards per game.
Top 5:
Balt
SF
Tenn
Dallas
Minn

Bottom 5:
Chargers
Pitt
Atlanta
Jets
Miami

Defending the run per game:
Top 5:
TB
NYJ
Philly
Balt
NO

Bottom 5:
Jax
Car
Clev
Wash
Cincy



You're right, yards are clearly a better measure. However I am also skeptical of rushing as a predictor vs. a result of success (i.e. teams that are up run the ball to kill the clock, teams that are behind pass more).
.  
Leg of Theismann : 1/9/2020 3:50 pm : link
In comment 14770307 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:

Tennessee was in the drivers seat because they were taking the game clock out behind the shed while Brady and Edelman held hands on the sidelines.


I'm literally crying laughing at this LOL
People shouldn't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/9/2020 3:51 pm : link
jump to conclusions about Engram. It sounds like Judge values availability, but maybe he'll help in that regard in how he plans to utilize Engram. What I took from his presser was that he'll try to gain an advantage - hence how many times he may throw the ball in any given week. That means he'll try to put people in the best position to win vs. each opponent.

I'm pretty sure, he'll realize what is an injury and what may be keeping a player off the field at a lower threshold.
RE: RE: I liked his answer about  
santacruzom : 1/9/2020 4:05 pm : link
In comment 14770245 GiantTuff1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14769658 Sneakers O'toole said:


Quote:


making sure players understand the "why" behind what they are doing.



EXTREMELY KEY, especially for this generation.


It's not a generational thing. The concern is not that the players will simply refuse to do it without understanding the why. It's that establishing the "why" helps the "what" resonate.
RE: Smart, tough, fundamentally sound is four words, not three!  
Festina Lente : 1/9/2020 4:08 pm : link
In comment 14769637 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Joe Judge can't count! We're doomed!


I'm cracking up
Also, some of ya'll  
Festina Lente : 1/9/2020 4:20 pm : link
need to improve your sartorial knowledge if you wish to criticize a man's wardrobe choices lol
Kind os reminded of this Belichick interview  
Manny in CA : 1/9/2020 4:36 pm : link

A few years ago. He noted that the talent level difference is very slight among all the players, but what he looks at is the intelligence and reliability factors.

After you teach a man what to do (and explain to him WHY it's important to do things this way), you can turn your back and rely on his intelligence & reliability to modify only if extenuating circumstances dictate (not due to his laziness, mental dullness or inattention).

Unfortunately, our team, the last few years, has been the Perfect Storm of blurred Identity, Design, Incompetence (and eventually distrust & confusion). Both McAdoo & Shurmur were good guys, but they were over-their- heads. Once the vet players sensed that, it was over.


Thank you, FMiC ...  
Manny in CA : 1/9/2020 4:43 pm : link

I know you & have famously "clashed" over Engram, in the past. He's a terrific player that can do wonderful things for the team (if his foot is OK). I appreciate you defending him.
RE: Thank you, FMiC ...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/9/2020 5:08 pm : link
In comment 14770498 Manny in CA said:
Quote:

I know you & have famously "clashed" over Engram, in the past. He's a terrific player that can do wonderful things for the team (if his foot is OK). I appreciate you defending him.


Manny, I think Engram is a dynamic player. But making him a full-time WR doesn't maximize his strengths. I'm hopeful Judge will utilize him to maximize his play. Just like I hope he does it with Barkley too. We've been too tied to a scheme instead of focusing on winning key 1-on-1 battles. I think Judge understands how important that is. It is how the Pats have consistently won.
RE: I like the stat search Go Terps  
santacruzom : 1/9/2020 5:14 pm : link
In comment 14770036 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
interesting stuff.

Another way to look at the run game is rushing yards per game.
Top 5:
Balt
SF
Tenn
Dallas
Minn



But do teams win because they run a lot? Or do they run a lot because they're winning?
RE: RE: Great interview  
KeoweeFan : 1/9/2020 7:16 pm : link
In comment 14769718 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 14769689 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


though I'm a little worried about what he said about what you need to do in today's NFL. "Run the ball, stop the run, and cover kicks." Maybe that was the NFL 5+ yrs ago but that's not today's NFL. Did love the fact that he said his schemes would be built around the personnel (and not vice versa) and that it would look different week to week.


You don't need to run the ball, stop the run or cover kicks in today's NFL? Seriously? He didn't say those are the three most important things or that he's only focused on that. He said you need to do those things. It's very hard to argue with that.

As we used to say: "NECESSARY, but not SUFFICIENT."
"run the ball, stop the run and cover kicks" are unchanging absolutes; the rest comes under the label of "guru schemes" which work for a while but tend to be transient.
RE: I posted that info because I thought it was interesting  
speedywheels : 1/9/2020 7:38 pm : link
In comment 14770037 Go Terps said:
Quote:

I found it telling the other day that Derrick Henry was so dominant on the ground, yet Tennessee only scored 14 points and easily could have lost the game had a different bounce or a single big play gone NE's way.


Well, Henry's success on the ground also allowed the Titans to keep the Pats off the field; offense can't score if not on the field...
RE: RE: I posted that info because I thought it was interesting  
Go Terps : 1/9/2020 8:26 pm : link
In comment 14770725 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 14770037 Go Terps said:


Quote:



I found it telling the other day that Derrick Henry was so dominant on the ground, yet Tennessee only scored 14 points and easily could have lost the game had a different bounce or a single big play gone NE's way.




Well, Henry's success on the ground also allowed the Titans to keep the Pats off the field; offense can't score if not on the field...


Time of possession:

TEN: 31:09
NE: 28:51

And remember, Vrabel won 1:46 of TOP on special teams by repeatedly exploiting the rules loophole. If not for that (which had nothing to do with Henry) the Pats win the time of possession.

Henry was phenomenal, but he didn't keep the Pats from having their chances. That game was lost by the Pats' inability to score points in the passing game, which IMO is a prerequisite in today's game unless you have a destroyer like Lamar Jackson.
That Titans running game  
UConn4523 : 1/9/2020 8:57 pm : link
is directly tied to Tannehills career resurrection. Iím not sure what the argument is anyway, no one is saying passing doesnít matter in a passing league. And what happens if Henry doesnít run for 34 times for 180 yards....even worse TOP for the Titans.
RE: That Titans running game  
Go Terps : 1/9/2020 9:03 pm : link
In comment 14770837 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
is directly tied to Tannehills career resurrection. Iím not sure what the argument is anyway, no one is saying passing doesnít matter in a passing league. And what happens if Henry doesnít run for 34 times for 180 yards....even worse TOP for the Titans.


This came up initially because of the comment that this league is about running and stopping the run.

I don't think it is, and further I don't think Judge thinks that. If he thought that he probably wouldn't be talking about being scheme independent (which I think is a great and long overdue approach).
Got it  
UConn4523 : 1/9/2020 9:12 pm : link
makes sense.
RE: RE: That Titans running game  
Leg of Theismann : 1/10/2020 1:51 am : link
In comment 14770846 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14770837 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


is directly tied to Tannehills career resurrection. Iím not sure what the argument is anyway, no one is saying passing doesnít matter in a passing league. And what happens if Henry doesnít run for 34 times for 180 yards....even worse TOP for the Titans.



This came up initially because of the comment that this league is about running and stopping the run.

I don't think it is, and further I don't think Judge thinks that. If he thought that he probably wouldn't be talking about being scheme independent (which I think is a great and long overdue approach).


I agree that stopping the run doesn't really help you win if you can't stop the pass, but I believe what is often implied is that stopping the run helps to stop the pass, and running the ball helps your offense pass the ball.

The key is being able to run the ball well so that the defense doesn't know on any given play whether you are going to run or pass (that's also what makes play action passing work). If a team can't run the ball, and you end up in 2nd & long and 3rd & long all the time, and it's very difficult to pass in those situations for a number of reasons:

1) You have to run longer routes hence giving the pass rush time to get to the QB.
2) You showed you can't run the ball, so the defense knows you have to pass.
3) You need at least 8 yards or so, so again, the defense knows you have to pass.
4) The defense knows you have to throw a medium to long range pass, hence they don't have to cover the short routes and the flats, they can drop more bodies back.

Again, some teams can run the ball and STILL can't pass, and some teams have good enough passing games that they can just throw the ball 50 times a game (although usually those teams use short range dink and dunk passes AS their running game so it's different). But generally-speaking running the ball and stopping the run is important because of the general effect that the running game has on the passing game. I don't think being able to throw the ball well translates so directly to being able to run the ball better, it does somewhat, but at least relatively speaking there's not quite as much of a causal relationship in that direction. The general rule has always been you establish the run so that you can kill them with the pass, not the other way around.



best part of this thread is Greg acting too busy for a 30 min  
Nitro : 1/10/2020 2:19 am : link
clip.

Very impressed by day 1 of Judge. Its like the exact opposite of the feeling I had with McAdoo when he showed up in his dad's suit.
RE: Engram  
Eman11 : 1/10/2020 7:12 am : link
In comment 14769988 stretch234 said:
Quote:
Maybe Judge figures out he has a weapon and has the OC utilize him to threaten defenses and not as an inline TE.

Usually guys who require foot surgery have a hard time running and playing


I think he fits perfectly into Judge's statement about don't tell me what he can't do (block) , tell me what he can do ( catch and run fast) and we'll get him in those positions.
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